african countries. "the ed show" is coming up next. >> good evening, americans, live from new york, let's get to work. ♪ >> not everybody is always happy with what's going on. >> the family is concerned about the grand jury process. >> clearly the eyes of the nation are on us. >> i'll be watching. >> i'm telling you we're going to make this neighborhood whole. >> we peaceful. we just want justice. >> not everybody is always happy with what's going on. >> we won't let it distract us. >> i know the pain that the brown family is going through right now. >> when justice is prevailed maybe they'll regain their trust. >> now is the time for an open and transparent process. >> all of the evidence will come in. >> not everybody is always happy with what's going on.

>> see that justice is done. >> allow people to express themselves, that's what we do in the united states. >> good to have you with us. earlier today attorney generic holder arrived in ferguson. he was briefed on the situation of the justice department's federal civil rights investigation into the death of michael brown. the attorney general met with community leaders elected officials and federal prosecutors. earlier in the day attorney general met with missouri highway patrol captain johnson and they talked about letting peaceful protest while getting rid of the criminal element. he said holder's visit is to important to the people of ferguson. >> show the people of ferguson and people of st. louis of our nation that their voices are heard and the highest office in

this land, listen to their voices and to the incident that happened. >> the attorney general wrote a message to people of ferguson and st. louis post dispatch, wrote, this is my pledge to the people of ferguson, our investigation into this matter will be full. it will be fair and it will be independent in a statement released on monday, holder expressed concern with the case saying the selective release of sensitive information that we have seen in this case so far it troubling to me. meanwhile, a st. louis grand jury met today and began hearing evidence in the case presenting evidence could take up to a week. earlier today, protesters gathered outside the st. louis courthouse where the jury and grand jury convened. the protesters were peaceful shouting hands up, don't shoot. >> many in the community have concerns over the county prosecutor in this case. robert mcculloch, who said there

are no plans to meet with attorney general eric holder while in town. he's with a family that has deep roots to law enforcement and the community of the his father was a police officer that was killed in the line of duty by an african-american suspect. critics have raised questions about his impartiality. on tuesday, missouri state senator nashad said the judgment will be blocked by his background. >> he doesn't have the fortitude to do the right thing when it comes to prosecuting police officers. his cousin is a police officer. his mother works for the police department. his uncle is a police officer. and again, we think that his judgment will be clogged as a result of all of those occurrences. >> she has gathered 26,000 signatures to remove mcculloch

from the case. earl yerl today he has no plans to step down. >> i understand there's some that legitimately or honestly believe i should say that they don't think i'm best suited for this case. that's fine, i understand that. nobody is -- not everybody is always happy with what's going on. so but what i'm trying to convoy va to them, i have that responsibility and not walking away from it. >> jay nixon has the power to remove him from the case but no plans to do so. the decision to charge officer wilson could take weeks. the united states justice department civil rights probe could take months. for more let me bring in brown family attorney darrel parks. mr. parks, good to have you with us tonight here on the ed show. a lot of questions about the prosecutor. do you think, mr. mcculloch can do his job and be impartial and

present what has to be presented to the grand jury and do this case? >> well, at this point, ed, all we have is mr. mcculloch so we have to go with him. some of the comments deeply concerns the family. given that case and since the governor is not going to remove him, he will be the state prosecutor. it's important in this case because most of the criminal charges that can result from this rest within the state. although we do have the federal possibility of those charges. the state has a far wide variety of charges that could apply in this case. >> have you asked for an independent prosecutor on this or for mr. mcculloch to be released? where does the family stand on this. >> the family has serious concerns whether or not this prosecutor can be fair. mainly because of comments he has made as relates to the governor and when the situation first occurred. he commented about the governor's intervention in the

situation in general. i think he obviously has sentiments already rashding the case and family has serious concerns about his ability to be fair and impartial. >> but they have not officially asked for a change, have they? we want to clarify that. they are tax paying citizens. >> not done it officially. >> do you think they should? >> you know, it's something they probably should really think hard about. i think that for a case this high profile and for him to make comments early on, it raises question as to whether he can be fair. as you know in most judicial situations, any time there's a question of your ability to be fair -- whether this prosecutor decides to do that. as of now he decided not to. >> do you think the governor has any concerns about this prosecutor but because of the democratically elected situation that he's in and egs the elected prosecutor that doesn't want to

make that change, thinking the people have already spoken? >> i think the governor kind of did it in a subtle way, i guess the prosecutor will have to decide that for himself, meaning obviously there's a situation there. he'll have to make that call himself and see if he does the right thing. >> you as an attorney representing the brown family, you certainly want justice, no question about it. district attorneys have a way of getting in front of the grand jury with a tremendous amount tena city to get this to trial. do you think this prosecutor is going to do that? >> i think we have serious concerns about it. obviously the fact that this prosecutor is working closely with this police department, obviously we've heard the comments he made about the interaction between that same department and the county police and what the governor did. i mean, it draws a lot of

concerns given the politics we've seen thus far in this case. >> he's got relatives in the police department. isn't that -- i mean, this is small town stuff, isn't it? i mean -- >> it is, without question. just given the fact that most local prosecutors and local prosecution office work directly with law enforcement agencies locally and that alone creates a situation. given the fact of this particular department being a department that he works with, that creates certain reason for any family to be concerned as to whether they can really investigate an officer and given the fact this department has chosen to stand by that officer. those points alone draw serious concerns as to whether or not there can really be a fair and impartial investigation of the conduct of this officer. >> what do you hear about eric holder's visit? i mean, what kind of impact.

he has no power over the governor. he can't make a change of venue or effect the grand jury but can go down the road of the civil rights investigation which is taking place. but his presence there, isn't this somewhat of a message to the community that this is a high priority? >> i think that alone, but from the family standpoint, we met with the justice department mid week last week as to express to this family they have a concern and they will launch their investigation. we have the eastern district of attorney office and united states department of justice civil rights division represented there along with the fbi. once they made that decision, this mother also met with the fbi agents as part of their official investigation. so justice has been very involved in this investigation now for almost a week. we're glad the attorney general was able to come to town and

show he's seriously involved. we've seen firsthand already a week ago that the department of justice is very serious about this investigation. >> well, mr. holder called the selective relief -- release of evidence very troubling. which leads me to believe he has no confidence in this prosecutor or the process. does that signal anything different to you? >> no, i mean, and we all should be suspicious. i'll give an example. just yesterday there was an alleged story that someone in the media reported there were 12 witnesses that backed up the testimony of what -- excuse me, the 12 witnesses backed up the version that the officer was saying, that story was recanted at a certain point. that story also said that there was someone within the official state investigation who confirmed that that was the case. you should never have leaks like that. i can tell you and we have met

with the fbi, they won't tell us the number of witnesses, who they talked to, when they talked to them or anything. that's how you do a real criminal investigation. there shouldn't be leaks of any type coming out of those investigations. that was the point that the attorney general was making, that we totally agree with him. >> mr. parks, stay with us here. i want to bring in ring of fire radio host, mike papantonio, former president of the national trial lawyers association. do you think eric holder has any faith in the st. louis county process and prosecutor to be able to get this done? >> ed, typically the u.s. justice department doesn't make a move until the investigators have completed their investigation but holder is seeing the same thing we observed, bob mcculloch, the prosecutor has incredibly strong ties, uncle, mother, brother, cousins and father all worked for the police department.

add to the fact that jay nixon has not had the good sense to replace mcculloch. here's where things really get ugly. this prosecutor will have the ability to heavily load and manipulate his presentations of evidence to in grand jury without that grand jury, ever understanding what's happening. for example, if he feels that officer wilson is on his way to a second degree murder charge, he tweaks that presentation with a witness or selective forensic evidence that reduces that possibility. worse yet, let's imagine the grand jury does indict, all along the way the presentation of this trial anybody with the slightest bit of cynicism is wondering whether mcculloch is the trojan horse, passively or actively to under mine this case. and add to that, real world concerns, ed, this is not just imagination. this goes on throughout the country. mr. parks will tell you he has seen it in his practice.

i've seen it in my practice. these are real concerns. >> mike, with all of this evidence against wilson as the public thinks, if it's presented correctly, what are the chances of a conviction? if it's not -- if it's not presented correctly, how much of an opening is it for the defense? >> well, the truth is even at this early stage there are many experienced defense lawyers who would tell you that officer wilson's case is winnable. mark o'mara is a good friend of mip, the one that handled the zimmerman case. we were talking about the case and had exactly the same thoughts. that is proximity is something that you'll see the defense use, the closer you put officer wilson to a 6'4", 300-pound michael brown who appears to be moving forward with his arms extended, the better changs the defense has to sell reasonable use of force. reasonable mistake, panic. that removes the criminal intent. but there's so many other things that are so easily sold by a

defense. hyperage tags -- >> mr. parks, i want to bring you back into this discussion. here's mike papantonio saying he has spoken with other attorneys and they are of mind alike that this case is winnable for the defense. and when you -- i want your reaction to that but doesn't that prevent the professional case for you to say you know what, we've got to get a different prosecutor in here? i want to give you time to address both of those things. >> well, first of all, any case is winnable as pap and i both know. i think that how you present the case and i think pap was talking about strategy even before the grand jury, but same strategy in terms of the regular jury and that you have to be forceful and find a way to make the case compelling case. i will tell you there's some compelling evidence in this case. the most compelling evidence in this case is there are two shots to the head that once the public gets a real chance to see how

this kid was shot in his head, it's pretty much going to be a case for the prosecution. now, presented right we think they win with that evidence but we'll see what happens once we get into it. >> mike, your thoughts? >> the family has one of the best attorneys they could have ever hired. i'm so glad to see him working on this case. he'll do a great job. all i'm saying, if the prosecution doesn't do what they are supposed to to do, it arms the defense, that brown was in a hyper aj stated state of mind, we've already heard it. it helps the defense. add to that the possibility of them finding a blood spray pattern in the patrol car consistent with brown's dna, go a step further, put brown's dna on the officers firearm. if that occurs, this is a difficult case for the prosecution. more importantly, the reason this prosecutor should not be handling this case, is it should

not -- there should never be a question. the defense is going to work to make the witness testimony into a dead draw and the forensics are going to offer so much contradictory material for the prosecution that the impact could be nullified by capable defense attorney but the truth is this community deserves a prosecutor from out of this town at a grand jury from out of this town to come in where they don't have questions. listen, we haven't seen gotten into the idea of the blood spray pattern. was there blood spray pattern inside the automobile? that's very important on what occurred there. was there brown dna on the gun? so a prosecutor who's looking over everything needs to defend, needs to defend this michael brown's family's right to have a case presented where nobody asked questions about him. in the end if this prosecutor stays on with this grand jury, i just think it creates too much

signs of i am propriety, whether this is a well meaning prosecutor or not. >> finally, mr. parks, if these pro tests had not taken place, would we be where we are today? >> i don't think we would, ed, i think these protests have proven to be a important part of our system where you draw greater scrutiny to a situation. we see every day in america cases where a young black men are killed and quite often shoddy investigations and shoddy prosecutions and no federal oversight. it serves a real purpose to make sure that we have a thorough process of justice and that's what i believe we're going to get in missouri given the presence of the department of justice now. >> daryl parks, mike papantonio, thanks for the discussion tonight. coming up, president obama calls for international cooperation in the wake of terrorism. first, the ferguson community continues to call for justice.

maria chapelle nadal joins me. stay with us. ? a card that gave you that "i'm 16 and just got my first car" feeling. presenting the buypower card from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com

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welcome back. thanks for watching tonight, tuesday night marked the 11th night of protest in ferguson, missouri, but the tone on the streets was different from previous nights. while monday night saw officers firing tear gas at protesters who throw molotov cocktails and fired shots at them, last night the crowd was smaller and calmer. in fact, protesters linked arms to keepage taters away from police. missouri highway patrol captain ron johnson applauded them for keeping the crowd in order. >> tonight the elders in this community, volunteers and activists and clergy came out in large numbers. they walked. they talked with people. they urged order, calm and

peace. that had a common influence on the younger people. >> there were reports of bottles thrown at officers causing them to move into the crowd and make arrests. 47 arrests were reported overnight. so far less than 78 reported after monday's protest. police also confiscated three hand guns from the people in the crowd. captain johnson said people listening to police department's request to protest early helped make the difference. >> those citizens who took heed to what we talked about last night, not allowing criminals to mass themself in peaceful protest. they protested early and went home early and allowed us a better visual look of those criminals and agitators roaming the streets. >> joining me now, marie chapelle-nadal. i appreciate your time. i want to talk about captain johnson. he seems to have really evolved

over the last week as a focal point of calm and really the voice of authority. what role do you think he has played in mending this community and directing all of this in a positive direction for the community to have a better night of protest last night? >> well, i have to tell you that captain johnson is exactly what this community needed. we needed to temper down the crowd. we needed to relax some of the personalities that were in the crowd. more importantly, we needed to identify some of those people in the crowd who were deterring attention to other places. it's very important to have people in this community who are focused on justice, but we did have an element in this community that was quite negative. and as captain johnson showed extreme restraint especially in the last few days, this community has been able to build trust with him.

he is a native son of this community. his family is here. and he's very personable. i think having him on the ground and being accessible most of all has really calmed down and tempered the entire community here. i'm very happy for that. >> senator, as the grand jury convenes, there still seems to be quite a question in the community about the credibility and confidence of the st. louis county prosecutor bob mcculloch. should he be leading this case? here's the response to governor nixon saying mcculloch is the one to make that call and not him, of course? >> governor nixon has the authority right now to say mcculloch is out of this case. and so i've directed him, congressman clay, senator nadal and senator nasheed and everybody and anybody and citizens walking down the street, expressed that opinion to governor nixon. he's the only one that can do

anything about it. he doesn't need a reason. all he has to say is no, i'm not removing mcculloch or yes i am removing mcculloch but get it done. >> your response to that, senator? he's saying he's going to do his job unless the governor does something. >> well, you know what, i have to tell you i actually agree with bob mcculloch. this is a case of governor playing cat and mouse. he does not want to accept responsibility. it is his authority to remove bob mcculloch from this case. now i have to tell you if the case ends up or if the police officer ends up nothing being charged, then this community is going to be very upset but the governor does not want that to be his responsibility. so we have bob mcculloch willing to take it on. but the community, they don't want to have bob mcculloch. and egs a friend of mine but i do listen to him and we agree in this case.

if this community does not want to have bob mcculloch then they should have a special prosecutor. so it is the governor's duty, it is his authority to remove bob mcculloch and replace him with a special prosecutor. that's what the community wants and they desire and what i'm fighting for. the attention needs to be on the governor. he has a habit of coming in the 11th hour. he's very hard headed so we're trying to get him to finally wake up and see -- listen to the people of this community. he has still yet to come to ground zero and blaming other people. he's playing a game of cat and mouse. it's unacceptable. >> you're a democrat, he's a democrat. he's apparently not listening to people in his own people. do you think the 26,000 signatures on this petition are going to have an impact? and with that do you think the presence of the attorney general is going to have an impact? >> you know, i have to tell you,

it is so wonderful to have eric holder here. he's really brought a new energy to this entire crisis. and i'm so glad that eric holder is looking over the shoulder of jay nixon, our governor. because he's not always been there for african-americans and minorities in missouri. he has a history of ignoring the black community unless it's politically expedient. so what i would say, it's wonderful to have eric holder but the pressure needs to be solely on governor nixon. that is where bob mcculloch and i agree. he has to take accountability and he's unwilling to accept whatever outcome may happen if this goes into court, if this case is moved into court. >> and you think he can do his job with the family connections to the police department? are you troubled by that? >> well, you know, i have to be on the side of my district. and while i do have a relationship with bob mcculloch,

my community and constituents do not want him. and so yes, there are biases that are in place and i i don't feel as though he is fit for this particular situation. we're in a state of emergency and for that reason again, the accountability is solely in the hands of governor jay nix son. >> state senator maria chapelle-nadal, i appreciate your time. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, a barbaric act of terrorism. and plus, paul ryan takes a pass on race conversation. i'm taking your questions next. we're right back.

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welcome back, appreciate all of the questions. our first question comes from sue. why do remembers claim to be christians while being so mean to the poor? well, they are mean to the poor because they don't recognize the

poor. they think if you're poor and economically challenged in this country it's your own damned fault. has how the republicans view it, look at the way they want to not support the budget and social safety nets out there. they think it's all about personal responsibility in some cases it is, but they broad brush the whole thing. i don't think they recognize the poor in this country. our next question is from ray, wants to know, do you think president obama is doing the right thing in iraq? absolutely. no troops on the ground, air strikes and now in the wake of what is unfolded in the last 24 hours, intensify those air strikes. commentary on that coming up. rapid response panel is next. >> the dow up 59 points and s&p 500 adding five points and nasdaq losing one point. bank of america has reached a record $17 billion settlement

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conflict journalism is very important. we need to know what's going on in the world and need to know the injustices, need to know that most of the world is a dictatorship. most of the world you cannot speak your mind. >> such a travesty. even after journalist james foley spent 44 days in captivity

at the end of pro gad half hi forces in libya in 2011, he never lost the motivation to expose injustices abroad. that motivation sent foley to northern syria where he was kidnapped again in november of 2012. on tuesday, terrorist group isis posted a video online titled a message to america. the video shows the beheading of 40-year-old james foley. isis calls the murder retaliation for u.s. air strikes in iraq. the white house's national security council confirmed the authenticity. it's a striking act of terrorism committed against a american citizen and journalist. president obama called on pt international community to join forces against isis. >> the people of iraq with our support are taking the fight to isil must continue coming together to expel terrorists from their communities and people of syria, whose story jim

foley told, do not deserve to live under the shadow of a tyrant or terrorists and governments of people across the middle east, there has to be a common effort to extract this cancer so it does not spread. there has to be a clear rejection of these kind of nilistic ideologies. one thing we can all agree on, a group like isil has no place in the 21st century. >> if i may as an american citizen i'm outraged. you can't tax me enough to pay for the ammunition to go after these people who did this to this american and have created so much turmoil in the middle east. it's much different than 2003. we don't have to fight this conflict on their terms with troops on the ground. but we can sure wake them up every morning with continued air strikes and we should do that until they are eliminated. that's my take and i certainly don't want to jade the opinion of the next guests but in our

rapid response that's where i stand on this tonight. i think america is there as well. joining me tonight, congressman john gar mindy of california and john saults, chairman of votevets.org. great to have you with us. you sit on the house armed services committee and know the briefings and information and know about isis. the beheading of an american journalist, a hostage and there may be more, if you listen to what they have to say, how does this change the dynamic moving forward in iraq, congressman? >> well, i think in two ways, ed, it really points out to all of us the seriousness of this conflict and brutality and aacrossty these folks are capable of doing and the determination we must have to pull together the countries of the middle east, all of that at risk and together with us go after this really extreme, extreme form of jihadist terrorism. we have to do that.

we don't have much choice. i do like the notion that you put forth that it be air strikes. boots on the ground, we simply cannot and should not go there. but we can together with certainly the iraqi government, which is now reforming itself and maliki is out, that's a good thing. and also the kurds and the other neighbors in the area really need to come together because they are as much at risk as we are. yes, there are other reporters and other hostages and they are in serious jeopardy at this moment. i'm not sure if there's much we can do other than to continue putting the pressure on the long term to put down these isis folks. >> do you think air strikes can be effective enough where we can defeat isis? >> not by itself but with the other countries, if iraq is able to get the act together and get government on its feet and military back on its feet and kurds and working together, the

answer is, yes, we can. >> john, you were recently in iraq. do you trust iraqi citizens that they are going to help in this mission to expel isis? do they have the wherewithal in the communities and unity and heart to do it? >> in the north the kurds have a real interest to push them back. what makes the video so interesting for the american public is that's the kind of stuff we would have seen in erbil and seeing in syria. it was vladimir putin of all people opposing president obama's strikes in syria that said the people that assad is fighting are cutting people's heads off. this is a long known entity. when we left iraq in 2011, we knew there was a lot of terrorist activity that killing iraqi troops. in the north, i think isis can be contained with u.s. air power but that's about it. the administration has to completely change or look at their syria policy. when you have hillary clinton out there saying we should have armed syrian insurge enlts

earlier, i have no idea what she's talking about. for a long time against arming crazy people inside syria. people thought mr. foley had been taken by the syrian government until this video popped up. so there's a lot of isis activity inside syria and that will continue to fester as long as there's this conflict with ba bashar assad. >> what about that? >> i think that's another step forward. before that happens i would want the president and his people to come to congress and explain why that would be the right thing to do. with regard to arming certain factions in syria, that has been done at a very low level and certainly nonlethal support has been provided. however, the problem is we've never known who to trust in syria. perhaps early on there may have been opportunities but that was

three years ago. we're well past that now. today up to the administration when we return in the second week of september to have a full blown hearing and discussion about what we should do. in the meantime, the continuation of the air strikes does make sense. >> i thought the president was visibly upset today, controlled his emotions when he gave his heartfelt comments to the nation and condolences to the foley family. but i believe that there's going to be an outrage across america that we can't let this go unanswered. and just a few more air strikes might not do it. john, can we eliminate isis with an intensified air campaign hour after hour? and can it be effective to the point where we would not have to put boots on the ground? that's what i think the american people want to know? >> i think to that is 100% no. there was no syrian opposition to support early on in the war. they showed no indication that

they were going to have an embassy or create a military. what happens when you're training foreign militaries you have a bunch of rag tag people with a bunch of rag tag people. if you went after isis, you have to work with bashar assad. and so far the administration's policy has been not to do that. in regard to troops on the ground, there are boots on the ground. as far as i'm concerned the administration has set them self-up for a big problem in the future. we have green beret on the ground and their lives are in danger. in the north they are relatively safe but when you have rescission air strikes like that, the kurds don't have that ability. there is u.s. power on the ground but there is no real way to defeat isis, even if you push them out of northern iraq with air power alone they'll go back into syria and assad doesn't have forces to control the eastern part of the state where they fester. in reality by helping even moderate insurgents inside syria, that's the terrain that

isis is working on and there's no way moderate syrians who are insurgents who have no military capability will turn on isis, they don't have that cause or effect. >> thank you for the conversation tonight. i appreciate it so much. john gara mendi and john soltz. >> paul ryan can run but can't hide from his own insensitive words. we're back. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score.

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we are back on "the ed show", protesters seeking justice for michael brown are holding their ground in the street despite extreme temperatures. national weather service upgraded an excessive heat watch to an xisive heat warning. temperatures hit 90 today and could reach triple digits this weekend. this adds another layer of concern to the already tense situation. keep it here, you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. >> the people are angry, they

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don't try to link some prejudged conclusion on what's happening on the ground right now. as policy makers, i don't want to try to capitalize on tragedy by saying, here is what we should do because this is what i'm for. >> finally tonight, we focus on paul ryan. he doesn't want to talk about ferguson, missouri, because it

means an honest conversation about race. might have to follow. paul ryan joined the kirby count today to hawk his new book but fox and friends accidentally reminded him about his troubled race comments. >> you were on with bill bennett's radio show in march and you had this observation. we will play it for folks about what is going on in the black community. >> we have got this tail spin of culture in our inner cities in particular of networking and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and culture of work. and so there's a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with. >> paul ryan can't runway from his own words. ryan makes off base and coded attacks on culture without wanting to address ferguson, missouri directly. healing ferguson must be done at the root by creating opportunity for residents instead of vilifying them. no one said it better than senator sanders when he joined

us on monday. >> if we are going to address the issue of crime in low income areas and african-american areas, it might be a good idea that instead of putting heavy equipment into police departments in those areas, we start creating jobs for kids there who desperately need them. >> republicans want it distance themselves from the race conversation because they would have to take about job opportunities. education and fairness, the gop doesn't have an answer to solving any quality because their policies, as i see it, work to expand it. joining me tonight, democratic strategists and professor of politics said usc bob shrum. good to have you here tonight. >> good to be here. >> i noticed that republican leaders haven't commented on the protests or police activity in ferguson. and i believe it's because it might draw them into a conversation of race, which they're not really prepared or equipped to have. your thoughts? >> i think that's exactly right, with the exception of rand paul,

no one has been willing on the republican side or no one major has been willing to talk about this. i don't even know what ryan means when he says we don't want to exploit this. i think what he means is i want to be silent about it because i want to satisfy the republican base. or the suggestion that comes from rick perry who's not the brightest bulb, but who does understand that base, that primary base, that somehow or other this has nothing to do with race. race is written large all off this. beginning with the fact that you have a young african-american teenager shot by a white policeman, six times, twice in the head. it's almost inconceivable to justify that looks more like execution than it does an act of self-defense. then have you it occurring in a town like ferguson. 60% african-american with virtually no african-americans in city government or on city council or on the police force. so you have a -- look, this is a

situation that just tells us that there is a problem in america that we have to face and deal with. from henry lewis gates to trayvon martin to michael brown. racism is a sin of american history and literally a mortal sin in too many police departments. >> but it seems that paul ryan is coding to his colleagues in congress on the republican side, you know, we can run this country and we don't have to address race. as long as we have the power, we can have our policies and run america without even worrying or even talking about it. >> well, you know, you could argue that going all the way back to nixon and the southern strategy, the republican way to deal with race has been to try to exploit it. you have a traditionally democratic south which on the issue of civil rights and race ended up being republican. and i think paul ryan is contemplating a run for the presidency in 2016. he doesn't want it get into a situation where he will be in any of those primary debates

where somebody will ask about this and they will say, you didn't support our police. or you said there was a real problem with race. because that is not a message that resonates in the republican party. >> it's almost as if they're afraid to say there's been pretty shotty police work done in the forefront and wake of all of this. and they have stumbled over race in the past. wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity to engage in that conversation now and use this as a moment. you mentioned rand paul. he is really the only one. it is almost a badge of courage at this point for the republicans. they just run from the conversation. >> yeah, look, i think that these guys, and rand paul's obviously thinking of running for president too. but people are thinking about running for president are afraid to touch this issue. and the real culture, you know, ryan talks about the culture and the african-american community,

the real culture that needs to be analyzed here and discussed is the culture of police forces which see themselves almost as occupying armies. which are overmill tarrized and in the case of ferguson, you have a police chief who went out there over the objections of the department of justice, smeared the victim and if you can't talk about this, how can you lead the country? >> well, the conservative narrative is to have been to criticize the president for maybe not wearing a tie, to the attorney general showing up and showing way too much federal force. and interfering in the local. you can't do anything right with these conservatives. yet it's very profoundly stated that they run from any conversation when it comes to healing communities that have got some racial issues and some racial divide. it is very clear, they don't want to talk about it. they think they can govern america without talking about it or addressing it. bob shrum, always good to have you with us. thanks so much.

that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz, "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. thanks for tuning in. we are watching attorney general eric holder's message as he arrived today in ferguson, missouri. the attorney general is reportedly meeting with the parents of michael brown later this afternoon. but since the shooting of michael brown, the attorney general has been committed to finding out what happened. briefing the president. vowing to work tirelessly on a federal investigation. holding conference calls to update civil rights leaders. informing the president that he personally wanted to go to ferguson. and today, the first african-american attorney general who made civil rights a priority for this administration did just that. he met withtu