>> horror in the desert. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we are headed to ferguson tonight but i'm compelled with start with the president's powerful reaction to the beheading of american james foley by the islamist group torturing and killing the way through syria and iraq. >> let's be clear about isil. they have rampaged across cities and villages, killing innocent unarmed civilians in cowardly acts of violence. they have abducted women and children and subject them to torture and rape and slavery. they have murdered muslims, sunni and shia, by the

thousands. they target christians and religious minorities, driving them from their homes. murdering them when they can. for no other reason than they practice a different religion. so isil speaks for no religion. their victims are overwhelmingly muslim. and no faith teaches people to massacre innocence. no just god would stand for what they did yesterday and what they do every single day. >> the die is cast. we want to make war against this band of killers. do people say with barack obama said today, you will back and allow killers to run free. we just learned earlier this summer the president authorized, he did, an operation to attempt to rescue american citizens kidnapped by isil.

howard, many people said today they had never heard obama like this, the president, personally. i don't know how he may have scent actual execution pictures, we don't know. we're not showing them. we don't have them. i don't want to show them. a lot of americans don't want to look at it. this guy was decapitated for no reason other than they want to hurt our country. >> chris, someone close to the president and e-mailed me, from the inside, they have never seen him like that. i certainly from the outside have never seen him like that. i have been covering him ever since i saw him run for senate in the united states. that is barack obama who is not only shocked, but angry, and determined. the question of course now is, since we are already slowly but surely beginning to ramp up in that region once again, how that anger, how that focus, which none of us i don't think has seen before in public, how that translates into the reality of

american involvement, the american military, and in america itself weary of war yet faced with something more gruesome and more vivid than we've ever seen on television and an enemy that knows social media, that knows propaganda in the modern way. that by some government estimates has $2 billion at its disposal. that has real territory and real proto government in the heart of the middle east. not in afghanistan, but in the heart of the middle east. >> watching that execution set-up we were just witness to, they like to push the button and have all of the people killed. this will cause rage in this country to see the way they did this. here is more from the president today. see how you hear him. >> today the entire world is appalled by the brutal murder of jim foley by the terrorist group isil. jim was a journalist.

a son. a brother. and a friend. he reported from difficult and dangerous places bearing witness to the lives of people a world away. he was taken hostage nearly two years ago in syria and he was courageously reporting at the time on the conflict there. jim was taken from us in an act of violence that shocks the conscience of the entire world. >> no matter how we get into this, it is obama's war now. i think he is saying that now. he decapitated this guy on tape to get even with him for starting the were on isis. we have at least one other person kidnapped. another journalist. they are going to toy with that situation for a while. >> they basically said in so many words that he's next if the president doesn't call off the very limited really offensive that we have mostly from the air in iraq to prevent them from taking control of rivers and dams an water facilities.

which is one of the methods these people use it gain territory. the message here, chris, the war that we fought a decade ago has produced a more vehement strain of everything we were trying to destroy. now the president, rightly criticized our first war, now has to deal with the consequences that may result in some kind of second one. the definition of which we don't know yet. >> a pain in the butt secular government, no real threat to the world, now fighting an islamic terrorist group which somehow fed out of this situation. >> that's what i said. i think the president and i think history will show, that president obama was right to oppose the first war as a candidate, coming up and as presidential candidate.

but now as president in the last two years of his second term, he has it deal with much more con consequences than he or anybody, including our people, thought would happen. they didn't tell me how bad this was getting this fast, he was blind-sided. if that's true, that's problem in and of itself. when we went in on this mission, when the president authorized the mission in syria to try to rescue american citizens, it turns out the intelligence was bad. the americans were not aware the pentagon was told they were. that's the situation. >> couldn't save them anyway. president obama said americans will be protected. let's listen to the defensive step he is taking. >> the united states of america will continue to do what we must do to protect our people. we will be vigilant and relentless. when people harm americans anywhere, we do what's necessary

to see that justice is done and we act against isil standing along side others. >> i don't know why i use the word justice. this is not appropriate here. this is an attack on our country. we have to react to it. this is this country versus a group that declared war on us. i don't know why word used like we are going to a world court with this. >> especially since he previously in the same statement basically depicted them as killers who -- cold-blooded killers --. >> they all belong in this. >> the question, chris, is the president, and not in this vehement way, drawn lines in the sand and made verbal commitments before. this president acting this way has to follow through, intangible ways, or consequences for him politically and for the

united states frankly, are probably going to be dire. and that's the problem he faces. this is not what he wanted. >> no. >> but he had to do it. he did it forcefully today. the question is now what comes next. >> let's bring in andrea mitchell. chief correspondent for nbc news and host of "andrea mitchell reports." andrea, you are so schooled in this. this seems like a new situation. president of the united states called out by the enemy, isil here, saying, look, unless you stand back, stand down, stop attacking us, we will keep beheading americans. this is very personal stuff right now. >> to show you how committed he was to try to rescue james foley and the other americans, what the pentagon released is that there was a rescue mission earlier this summer with shades of what happened all the way back in the carter years, with failed rescue. they sent in fighter jets and helicopters that landed in

northern syria thinking they could rescue the westerners. and we know there were several americans involved. and it failed. there was heavy fighting with isis fighters. and one american pilot was injured in the failed rescue mission. they shows how much the u.s. military and white house has been focussing on this. >> can we decapitate isis? this is serious now. such an islamic group. so zealous. it is killing christians. jews, anybody they can get their hands on that's not the kind of sunni they like. they are killing them. how do you stop them without killing these people we are looking at marching around with the masks on? and why are they wearing masks if they think they are going to win? that's a question i always have with these people. your thoughts? >> the fear has been that isis is different from al qaeda that

isis want to control territory. want to rule. that they've been trading some small amounts of oil. dealing as a sovereign state. what we have seen with the effective air power in iraq the last couple of weeks that they have been pushed back from mosul. they did lose control of the dam. with more defeats like that, they can be put back on their heels. there is another school of thought they aren't nearly as powerful and not as fearful as has been suggested by what they do to be terrorists, they do horrific things on video, and that is partly how they inspire fear in people. >> andrea, one of the arguments made, the only way to get rid of these groups is to be done by islamic people themselves. are we going to have people willing to eliminate isis, go in there and get rid of these people.

sunnis, larger community for example. perhaps in coalition with the kurds and reasonable shiites, go after them. >> that's been the hope. that's what president alluded to today, that middle eastern communities have to rise up, jordan, lebanon, the whole region could be threatened. the criticism has been of the quataris and others, when they were the best fighters in syria, that be careful what you wish for. now they have become the cancer president obama was describing today. >> let me go back to howard fineman and the president here. the president has been the dove. now you good to the case where they declare war on us. behead them. not just a public insult but a desecration. and the president of the united states knows they did it to him because they went after him. how do you stop what is a mano a mano struggle between this president and an obama war against isil.

i don't see it stopping. >> i think the president doesn't think in mano a mano terms. he likes to think of himself. i know he thinks of himself, as a broad-gauged deep guy who plays a long term game. has allies, has a plan. doesn't take it personally. this is the first time i've ever seen him sort of take something personally. >> it is aimed at him. >> chris, there is a school of thought. and some of our people are looking into this. there is a school of thought that says this is exactly what isil want. they want us to engage them. they want us to attack. their theory is to push our buttons. >> well, we can help them out. >> that's the concern and conundrum -- >> what i've been saying to andrea for a long time now. no american president can survive the nuclear weapons and no american president can

survive letting americans be headed on international television with impunity. he has to strike back. as an american. it's in our soul. your thoughts. >> that's exactly what he was saying today. he proved in the past we do go after terrorists. bin laden of course, case in point. there have been other big successes. so the failed rescue mission is not the last. we had assumed and correctly they wouldn't go into syria. wouldn't go on to syrian territory and that was incorrect. they were under operational security doing exactly that and they didn't know where these guys were. they thought they knew because they had been debriefing the french hostages who were released in april. and they, by the way, released by being ransomed. their government denied it. but they are intermediaries. everyone but the brits and americans were released starting in april. the trickle of others, the danes, spanish, they all got

out. except for our people. and that's because we don't pay ransom. >> may god take the soul of james foley. and i mean it. this serious personal stuff. this is about killing good people. thank you andrea. thank you, howard fineman. today, attorney general her eric holder came to ferguson. can attorney general holder assure an angry community that brown's death will be investigated fairly and justly? that the name of the game here. plus, how do you break the cycle of vicious hopelessness, crime and fear. here is one solution, jobs. good jobs. and dignity and respect that comes with a job. isn't it time president obama insist the government of the united states put people to work in this country? and one of the most mellow dramatic stories in the country in a virginia courtroom. bob mcdonnell has taken the stand in his corruption trial.

his strategy, make his wife the culprit. a reminder of what the goal needs to be in ferguson. true justice. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like you're underwater? try zyrtec-d® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter. zyrtec-d®. so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless. you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive.com today. i call this one "the robox."

try zyrtec-d® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter. protests have begun again on the streets of ferguson, missouri. so far, there have been small and peaceful. but authorities are bracing for another tense night. the beefed up security in the main thoroughfare through the town. attorney general eric holder just finished a meeting with the family of michael brown at the courthouse in st. louis. holder is also taking part with a meeting with elected officials including senators, governor of missouri and congressional delegation. "hardball" continues with much more from ferguson right after this.

welcome back to "hardball." attorney general eric holder arrived if ferguson missouri today meeting with community leaders and family of michael brown. he got an update on the case from fbi agents and federal

prosecutors. according to the associated press, while meeting with student at a community college in the area, the attorney general told the group change is coming. he was talking about general relations between the community and local police. attorney general holder spoke briefly with captain ron johnson. who is in charge of security in ferguson. he told him quote, you are the man. attorney general said holder's visit is important for the community. >> i think it will show the people of ferguson, people of st. louis, people of our nation that their voices are heard. >> mean while a grand jury began hearing evidence in the case. prosecutors caution it could be months before there's any decision on whether to indict the officer darren wilson. some good news tonight. last night saw relative calm on the streets of ferguson. no tear gas used. no molotov cocktails thrown. no shootings. 51 arrests, however mostly for file you're to disperse. people were told to keep moving and didn't.

down from 78 people arrested the night before. craig melvin is there, as he has been so well for all these days. craig, give us a sense of last night. the numbers are 778 down to 47. sounds like things are improving, at least over the last 24 hours. >> reporter: chris, if this is any indication of tonight, i think we will have relative calm. we with have another vantage point. i can show you the scene of this main drag of ferguson. there have been times over the past few days and you've seen that shot, where the streets have been pretty full already. this is the smallest crowd. this is the quietest crowd we have seen so far. in addition to that, the police presence also the smallest we've seen so far. again, it is obviously early. sun is still up and things can change. based on what we saw last night,

looks like we are in for another peaceful night. in fact, it has been eerily quiet over the past, i would say, hour or two. we will see whether that remains the case. there has been talk that attorney general holder might head to this area after the meeting that you just mentioned with the congressional delegation and meeting with michael brown's family. at this is point, no word on whether the attorney general will be here. >> there was great video shot by protesters. you can see a police officer pointing his semiautomatic at protesters. and he yells at one protester, i will kill you. i will kill you, he said. the officer refused to give his name. another officer came by and got him to put his gun down. today the st. louis police department said the officers involved with the semiautomatic weapon has been removed from duty and suspended indefinitely. what's the impact of that story as it makes the round?

>> here's the thing. you just cleaned that up, too. there was an expletive or two used that we can't say on cable, that happened shortly before semiautomatic rifle. that officer we should note is from st. ann's, a neighboring jurisdiction. we've been talking about the relative peace, relative calm, but if you get out in the crowd and talk to individual protesters, and some of them, they don't have stories that are that extreme but they will tell that you they have, folks who have been out here night after night, they will tell you they have been talked to by police, by law enforcement in ways that aren't nice. especially when the sun goes down. what is shocking about that is that it was caught on camera. that is not the first time something like that has likely happened here in ferguson over the past few days. that's the first time we have seen it. >> thank you, very much, craig. we will be back with you

regularly. you're a great reporter to have out there. joining us right now from san francisco, paul let me ask you about this role. it is hard to read everyone's mind, coming out of their houses after dinner to see what is going on. a hell of an attraction, even if you are dispassionate. and everybody is passionate out there. people want to be noticed. in the good sense. as individual human beings and not dismissed and ignored. when a guy's body is laying on the street for five hours, they get the impression we aren't taken as human beings out here. when you hear the attorney general of the united states in town thinking about whether he will substitute for the local prosecutor, some new form of prosecution, special prosecutor, does that get into the minds of people, generally, do you think? >> it does generally.

but it doesn't answer all of the questions and all of the concerns the community is feeling and having the lack of representation with elected officials with law enforcement and quite frankly, their representation with this grand jury. there is notoriously underrepresented. >> this is a real issue. >> explain how that happens. if the county is 30% whiter, 30% minority, how do you pick a grand jury? >> they can be done in different ways in different cities. a lot of time those people are volunteers. i know here in california, i speak to many community groups getting people to volunteer and stressing the need to have more minority representation from the disenfranchised community. i don't know what grand jury looks like but these are concerns we are hearing on the streets as we talk to people about why they are distrustful or not confident that the justice system is going to represent them well in spite of

what is going on. we know eric holder is out there. i think that's great. he is showing outstanding leadership here. and that is helping people to feel a some sense of relief that there is a federal review that's going on to address some of their concerns. what holder is doing and what the federal jurisdiction is doing is reviewing the police department to see if possibly there are some civil rights violations in association with that specific police department. and also an independent investigation to determine whether or not criminal charges can be brought against officer wilson. so that does help and does speak to the concerns that community is expressing an outrage over, over this entire process as it's unfolding in front of us. >> according to "the new york times," witnesses have given very different accounts of how it happened. some disagree on how it started with the struggle between the

officer and teen-ager himself michael brown. some say the officer fired his weapon as michael brown was running away. witnesses give investigator sharply different accounts of the killing. some say, michael brown, 18 at the time, moved toward the officer when he was shot down. others say he was not moving and even had his hands up when he kass killed. it'll me what it is like for the grand jury when people come in with different views. they may have different views of the police opposed to civilians. how do they know the difference between one statement compared to others. >> often times they evaluate testimony just like a jury evaluate evidence and testimony. one of the interesting things about a grand jury is that they hear hearsay evidence. often times they are unable to

see the actual witnesses. i would presume in a case like this, the prosecutors would like to get those actual witnesses in front of that grand jury so they can see and hear them to estimate and judge their demeanor because they will get conflicting stories. we heard the conflicting stories. one of the interesting things of this process in missouri is that a defendant and officer wilson is allowed to come and testimony in front of them. that can be influential in front of a panel that is in an indictment. it'll be interesting to see what prosecutors put in front of that grand jury. and that's part of the reason this process is taking so long because there are so many different reports.

again tonight police fired not a single bullet. last night at 2:00 a.m., the number of arrests were 47. tonight the number was six.

at about 7:00 he came by the command center. he praised all the departments for the coordinated measured response that is being utilized. the governor also met with the officers who are working the streets and expressed his appreciation for their work. during the day tonight, during the day today, i met with u.s. attorney general eric holder. he told me what's going to in ferguson is a great example of community policing. today on ellison drive, much of the conflict, there were three missouri state troopers who noticed a basketball hoop without a net. there was no basketball. the troopers decided they wanted to do something for the kids in the neighborhood them used their own money and bought a net in basketball. as they installed the net, some

neighbor children came out of their home and asked what the troopers were doing. they told the kids, they wanted him to have a net in the basketball. as those troopers drove off, the children were playing basketball. that is the true meaning of community policing. i will answer a few questions. >> what times of thing were they arrested for? >> some were failure to disperse. there was one for, the other two i'm not aware of. >> [ inaudible ]. >> actually, earlier in the week we had heavier rain than we had tonight. and we contained it longer and the crowd did not leave. so no, before the rain came, we saw the calm in the crowd. we saw a different crowd that came out tonight.

we didn't have as many agitators. and as i said, criminals in the crowd. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i tell you, i am going to enjoy the peace we had today and not focus what ifs. >> [ inaudible ]. >> the clergy have been a great example for this community, the respect that we all have for our faith, their calming words, their patience and their ability to express what is right to the people of this community. >> how do you keep going with this? would you call this a turning point? >> because i know in the end,

this is going to make us better and it will bring us peace and it will make us be better men and women. it will make our kids better. it will make our nation better. and i look forward to that. >> was today a turning point though? do you call it a turning point? >> we've been here several nights. each night i've seen a turning point. each night i've seen small steps. sometime they're hard to see. i know small steps turn into big steps. we've been taking small steps every night. >> did you choose your strategy at all tonight? >> we would go back as a group. you see the chief here, the chief of taylor city. the major of operations. we go back every night and we sit and we look at our operational plan and see how we

can make it better and how we can do it better. and also, part of that is when we're out in the community and we're talking to the citizens out there. we'll listen to what they're telling us. and their concerns. that goes into our thinking also. >> what are the adjustments that you make? >> i'm not going on talk about our operational plan and our adjustments. we really didn't talk about what he wanted. i walked in and stuck out my hand for a handshake and he put out both his hands and embraced me with both his hands and told me, he said this is what community policing is about. and he said we thank you. >> [ inaudible ]. >> no. he just told me what policing

should be within communities and thanked me and wanted me to thank those that are here on the line. the front line. that we're doing a great thing and a good thing. like i said earlier, we'll continue to evaluate the situation. evaluate operations. and we'll adjust accordingly. >> do you think holder's visit today, the meeting with community leaders, with michael brown's parents had any impact as far as different moves? >> i believe it did. i believe it let this community know their voices have been heard by the greatest, the top law officer in the hand. they know their voice has been heard.

>> actually, the officers that were directly online, on the line, did not have long gone, but they were directly on the line. >> [ inaudible ]. >> you were here for the last two nights. we have weapons displays. like i said last night, these officers have families. they have parents, loved ones, and they're going to be protected. you saw it tonight. unless you were sitting here, you saw it tonight.

>> the police moved in quickly to remove those supporters from the demonstrators. they were hand in a very professional manner. did you discuss afterwards how you would handle that in the future should more supporters show up? >> we're here to provide safety for everyone. that's the media. the group you had here today. as you've seen yesterday, we provide protection for the agitators, for everyone here. our uniform says we'll protect and serve everyone here. >> when are you going to -- [ inaudible ]. >> did you not see this tonight?

i stood out there with many of you. you saw groups stopping in different locations and talking. you saw groups talking to the media. >> one more question. how many have been arrested -- [ inaudible ]. >> i don't have those total numbers. we had six tonight. last night we had 47. i don't have the total numbers. we can get those for you. >> we contacted the department. the minute we knew about that. we identified him. we contacted his department and notified them that he would be part of this incident. that that behavior would not be

tolerated. my personal opinion was i felt that behavior disrespected the uniform and all the men and women that come out here each and every day in a dedicated effort to make ferguson a better place for all. thank you. >> captain ron johnson there finishing his seventh day leading the efforts for the law enforcement officials there on the ground in ferguson. walking away from these microphones. what was different today as you heard the numbers? the number of arrested? to six. yesterday, 47. the day before, it was 31. so as captain ron johnson finishes now what is probably a very long seventh day, head of law enforcement efforts in ferguson, he is looking forward to a good night's sleep. there were no bullets fired by any law enforcement officials. no handguns were recovered. no molotov cocktails, no

shootings, no fires and no smoke or tear gas or mace used in this last evening of thursday that he was telling us about. we'll continue to follow with the latest events in ferguson, missouri. right here on msnbc. we now return to regular programming. it is "hardball" with chris matthews already in progress. >> that's an awful way to put it. who else is coming down the street? >> you're right. in term of the congressional black caucus has a jobs plan that they put forward every year. every year we put forward an alternative to the budget. if we have that dream with both houses of congress being with democrats, the first thing we would do would be the pass the president's jobs plan which he had that would have there were proposals in there for job training. proposals to rehab houses. if we look at it, we know that infrastructure is one of the first places to go. but there's other things that have to happen too. and all the years that we

incarcerate sewed many people, you know, we've blocked people from employment by banning employment if you have a felony or record. if you look at the arrest record, not only are there not jobs right now but a lot might be prohibited if they are working jobs. >> marion berry, a lot of people have mixed feelings of him. but one thing he did was give kids summer jobs. you wouldn't hang around convenient stores shoplifting if you have an income and you're proud of yourselves. the summer jobs program had a huge impact in d.c. a lot of people say, that was my first job. marion berry gave me my first job. >> gave me my first job. >> really? tell us about it. >> i got a job with ceda. my first job not with the

anniversary on the war on poverty we talked to members of congress and there were a lot of us that got our first jobs through those programs. that's a perfect example of what we can do now. >> what if congress would come back and give a passioned speech, which i'm sure you can do, about this case. let's not talk about the police that's part of the problem. let's not talk about the justice, that's up to the jury. but let's talk about it economically. kids grow up in the economically wrong neighborhoods. do not have a break coming to them. >> right. absolutely. you know what, i have no problem making that impassioned speech. bun thing i believe we will do is that we will have a special order hour where you know we can speak on the floor after votes on the monday when we get back. the congressional black caucus does that fairly routinely. but there is a lot that we can do. as you know, los angeles went through this 22 years ago, you have the underlying bent up rage that happens in the cities and

then have you a spark that ignites it and you have ferguson today. >> let's get back to the president. the congresswoman says the bill has a bill. i've never been impressed about it. it doesn't seem to be macro economic big time enough. you have to ask for what you want. i tell young kids, ask for what you want. they will give you what they can give you. ask for what you want. i don't think there's enough there. >> i'm with you on the theory, you don't ask for nothing, you don't get nothing. that's the way of the world. >> you ask for a penny, they won't give you two pennies. >> you go big and ask for what you can get. >> white people got a lot of jobs from the government. and the ccc and nra. compared to the minority community today. and they got jobs. and nobody complained. everybody wanted those jobs. >> the sad thing is, we know our

infrastructure is crumbling all across the country. in los angeles we had a major water break at ucla. there is so much we could be doing if the political will was there. >> you ought to ride the roads of washington more, like i do. it feels like you're on a bug board. thank you so much congresswoman. and thank you gene for writing so well for us. up next, former virginia governor from the blind to the ridiculous. get to the corruption trial. he is blaming his wife. part of the soap opera defense. exposing the personal details of what he claims to be, claims to be a troubled marriage. this is "hardball," a place for politics.

top republican laid out his plan to stimey president obama. in an interview with "politico," mitch mcconnell says if they win this november, they will attach riders to spending bills, from everything on the environment to health care. he says if the president vetoes them, they will pass spending bills and have restrictions on the activity of bureaucracy. that's something we won't like. but that will be done, i guarantee it. mr. nice guy speaks again. the guy always wanted to croak this administration. is promising to do it worse. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like you're underwater?

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was proof that the former virginia governor and his first lady didn't work together to squeeze money from a wealthy businessman. mcdonnell testified his wife wasn't so happy when he was elected governor, was tense at being first lady and yelled at him the very next morning after wing the election. mcdonald testified on the hardships of running for office and the emotional and fine toll it can take on a family. for more of what happened in court today -- robert, first of all, the defense, no this wasn't bribery, we weren't taking these watches and all these trips and rides and all that stuff. we weren't doing that because we wanted to. we were doing that because my wife had a crush on this guy. she wanted to spend time with him. she was spending time so she could spend time. now it seems to me my wife's hysterical. what's the defense? >> i think the idea is, she starts out hysterical, and she's not ready for prime time.

she's not ready to be the first lady of virginia, she's worried about what she's going to wear and doesn't feel like she's up to it. later, we'll hear this tomorrow, when he talks more about the marriage, mcdonnell talks more about the marriage, tomorrow we'll hear about how they grew apart and she was supposedly doing all this wheeling and dealing behind the scenes with this businessman and he supposedly didn't know anything about it. >> i'm trying to cut through this from the rational to the irrational, there is a rational explanation of why a woman who's just become first lady would argue when she has the big inaugural ball every tv camera is watching her, and she shows up in a dress she's been wearing for ten years, there is that concern that she had something special for the occasion opinion. >> they didn't have the money, they were $70,000 in credit card debt.

she was disappointed that his salary in public service hadn't been so high, and they had these debts that we now learned about from the real estate investments that had gone bad, and i think she was worried, clearly about cutting the right figure and dressing right, and acting right. on the big stage in the executive mansion. >> let's cut to the chase in terms of how this case will be decided. will it not be decided by a jury that's watching all of this stuff? the hogwash and the reality and everything else? was this guy paid off? >> yeah, i think -- >> did he do something because they were giving him money and watches or did he just say fine i'll take that stuff from you, but i'm still going to be a good governor? >> he's emphasizing he didn't give anything out of the ordinary to johnny williams. i think this whole strategy is a big gamble. he's trying to come across as mr. upright. mr. straight shooter. he had a priest testify today who had been his college

roommate at notre dame, came in and testified about what an upright guy he was, that's half the case. the other half they're systematically tearing down the reputation of his wife. that doesn't look good, and i think those two things are sort of intentioned with each other, and i wonder how the jury's going to make sense out of it. >> you can argue, what else was he going to say? >> this is it. he con the say, i didn't take the watch, they have to picture him with the watch, the clothes and all this stuff was accepted. stipulated at will. >> this may be, clearly they think this is the best defense they've got. i don't feel like the two halves hang together. >> are you going to believe me or your lying eyes. we can't try it here, we'll be right back after this. when you run a business, you can't settle for slow.

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and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. if you're waiting for me to act the role of d.a., judge or juror, keep waiting, i don't have the authority. it will be difficult enough

finding the truth through what appears to be conflicting accounts. finding the facts of the case, what actually happened is the central matter for the district attorney and the grand jury to decide. what i will insist on is that every human life be treated as a human life, valued as one of god's children. i don't know why a man, whatever the circumstances of his death should have his body lying in the street for five hours. i do not accept the fact that a police officer, no matter how scared can resort to anger if that was the case, not when he's got a gun in his hand. we will have to learn as best we can to learn the truth of this tragedy in ferguson. let's remember, this country began when a future president served as a brave defense attorney for the british soldiers in the boston massacre. that's hardball for now, thanks

for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from ferguson, missouri. i'm chris hayes, after the first night of relative calm in a