we'll check in with craig melvin who is on the ground. the attorney general is a busy man as comments about ferguson are coming as he announced a record-breaking fine against one of the biggest banks. i'm steve kornacki in for ari melber. >> and finally free. two ebola patients are cleared for release and are walking among us. there were hugs all around. for those two healthy americans, it's a miracle. that and more as "the cycle" rolls on for august 21st, 2014. and right now, the lives of at least three americans and dozens of foreign nationals are in the hands of isis. the terrorists are demanding cash and an end to u.s. air strikes in northern iraq. but in an effort to show that the u.s. does not vow to

terrorists, six u.s. strikes took out six multiple strikes just this morning. a top secret military attempt to free the americans last month failed. it happened in eastern syria and it was based on human intel, not satellite images or intercepted phone calls. u.s. special forces came under heavy fire only to determine that the hostages have already been moved. this is the first time that we know of that the u.s. has boots on the ground inside the syrian conflict. the white house is looking for justice for journalist james foley who was beheaded by isis. we're going to play just a few seconds of the video so you can get a taste of what intel officers are using to learn more about the man who killed him. take a listen. >> this is james foley, an american citizen of your country. >> you can clearly hear his british accent in that video. experts are scrambling to analyze the video to determine if this is one of the 400 brits

that have gone to syria or, worse, a former gitmo detainee. we are also hearing from a french journalist who was held hostage with foley for seven months. >> james foley was probably my best cellmate during our months of captivity together. james was just great. he was always supporting everyone, always -- always there to help. and to share. >> and isis has also released this video of yeah ziz dazidis forced to convert their religion or they would have been killed. executed at close range or buried alive. we have all angles of this covered with nbc's richard engel. tom sanderson is here to help us

understand exactly who we are dealing with. richard, i want to start with you near turkey's border where many isis recruits are joining the fight. >> reporter: isis has gained an enormous amount of credibility and support over the last year and really over the last six months as the group has been making enormous advances in iraq. isis now calls itself the islamic state and it's starting to look like a state and act like a state of brutal medieval state but one that controls territory, one that operates across borders and one that is governori governing in its own fashion as they believe they are prisoners of war. it has been a very attractive group for extremists from europe, in particular, to join and also from around the islamic world, especially from iraq. many iraqis have been going to join up with isis once that border melted away between iraq

and syria. it is believed that there are 3 to 4,000 europeans, many from the uk, hundreds at least. and this group that was holding james foley was led, in particular, by the person on the video who is believed to be a uk national. some people called him one of three different british guards, nicknamed the beatles by the hostages themselves. they are considered a very brutal, very idealistic than al qaeda was. i was told that al qaeda is dedicated, it is devoted but sometimes in the off hours, al qaeda members would drink, smoke, do things that aren't necessarily consistent with al qaeda's propaganda. these groups are totally committed, totally believing that they are part of this caliphate, part of the islamic state and totally brutal. >> richard engel, please stay

safe. with us now, former counterterrorism and a former jihadi. thank you so much for being here. your story is fascinating. you were recruited by extremists. tell us your story. by the time i became at the age of 19, i met the taliban and basically started to believe their world view after they had taken over in 1995 in september of 1995. i had taken that as a validation of their jihadi outlook and i started to believe in it myself and was heavily involved in that until i turned a i way from it.

>> wow. he also spoke about the fact that he suspected a lot of the isis members that were holding him captive there were eu citizens. let's take a listen to that. >> i met fighters coming from all over the world with many different accents and speaking many different languages. i have seen several people that come from european country. i haven't seen passports so i can't be sure of anything. i mean, a voice or someone masterized a language is just a clue of citizenship but it's not in evidence. so i can't say -- i have guesses several that were coming from several european countries. >> mubin, i think it's hard for us to mention anyone as brutal

as they are but it's harder for us to wrap around a british or an american orca nad general citizen finding appeal in that ideology. what is it about isis specifically that is appealing to these individuals? >> first and foremost, isis is calling them the islamic caliphate. they have mentioned this, the necessity to establish a caliphate and, finally, by declaring himself the ruler of the muslim world, this appeals to them. this is something that was -- that they have been waiting for for a long time and finally this group came on and gave them what they have been looking for. so we really shouldn't be so surprised because a lot of these citizens who live in these countries, uk, u.s., belgium, citizenship doesn't resonate with them. they don't have any loyalty to

the state or the people they live with. they are so separated and they have a separationist world view that it's easy for them to take that next step into a group that's welcoming them with opening arms. >> mubin, how easy is it for isis to recruit westerners? >> all of these extremist groups, even the taliban when the soviets had invaded, a lot of people had gone from western countries. we're just seeing the same thing. it's the same extremist mind set and methodology and isis is the new kid on the block, so to speak. for a lot of these kids who are angry, they want to see any kind of violence being done upon americans or western citizens in general, probably because of grievance-based ideology, they are satiated when they see an american being killed or americans being attacked. >> folks over there talk about

things we did in iraq, abu ghraib or falluja or guantanamo bay for reasons for their radicalism, reasons that they want to join al qaeda, the islamic state. do you think that that is something that is real? >> most definitely it is real because of especially the images that came out, videos that came out. of course, wikileaks, all these things together just reaffirm for them that this is a war on islam and that's why i caution falling into this kind of narrative because we're perpetuating their propaganda. but those are things. grievances, ideology has traction with those grievances. but it also begs another question, why are they killing muslims? they have killed more muslims than nonmuslims and the muslims didn't kill them or invade them or do these things to muslim. >> yeah. that's a great point.

mubin, thank you for being so open about your own story. i want to bring in a person who recently wrote about how isis is funding their massive campaign. tom, thank you for being here. according to foley's family, isis demanded $130 million in ransom. we know al qaeda has done the very same thing as their way of doing business. they received 125 million since 2008, kidnapping europeans. what is isis hoping to gain by doing this? >> well, a number of things. one, the money enables them to have sustained operations. so if they have a deep reserve of cash, they don't have to be on the leash from those in the persian gulf or anyone else, that they have locally derived financing from kidnap for ransom, extortion, grain rries,o buy people in their loyalties.

of course, with a videotape like we saw yesterday with james foley, what you're being looking at, of course, is the effort to both terrorize the populations and to recruit others and inspire others who may be interested in joining this group. so there are many reasons why they would do this. >> you know, tom, right now the united states is doing these really targeted, limited air strikes, basically trying to support and give the courage and opportunity and give the iraqi opportunity to confront isis more directly. everybody in this country when we use those terms, boots on the ground, it drives home to everybody, what would it take for the united states to dismantle isis so this sort of thing doesn't happen again? >> it would take an unbelievable effort. as you showed the map earlier on, it is as large as jordan is, stretching across a very, very wide area.

it would take incredible resources on the ground. we need our own intelligence on the ground. we can't rely on the iraqi security forces to provide intelligence. we can get some from overhead sources but we need eyes and ears on the ground. it would take that, political will, a huge equipment on the part of iraqi politicians, namely s namely she shiites so they feel like they are part of this, it would take incredible commitment of men and material, politics, political will. >> i wonder if the islamic state is spreading itself too thin. the larger area they have to control, the more folks they have to enlist governoring forces. the bigger you get, the less nimble you can be. >> that is true.

however, they are attracting new members to their group every day. who do you want to join, the winners or the losers? they are joining nusra and they are able to spread a lot of people out there and through terror but also through many wounds and baking breads, as my colleague mentioned in an earlier piece. they are able to bring a population in that is only seen corruption, failure to deliver services and isis is doing this. they are acting as governors in these areas. >> tom sanderson, thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> you're welcome. coming up, how will iran and syria fit into this and what, if anything, can the u.s. do to combat isis other than air strikes? and governor jay nixon has

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cycling now, two american ebola patients are easing back into their lives. they have been declared disease-free and no longer a public threat. dr. kent brantly hugged his doctors and thanked all those who treated him and prayed for him. today is a miraculous day. i am thrilled to be alive, to be well, and to be reunited with my family. i cannot thank you enough for your prayers and your support

through the care of the samaritan's purse in liberia, the use of an experimental drug and the health care team at emory university hospital, god saved my life. a direct answer to thousands and thousands of prayers. >> what a great story. brantly spoke about his friend nancy writebol who was released from the hospital on tuesday. >> my dear friend nancy writebol, upon her release from the hospital, wanted me to share her gratitude for all of the prayers on her behalf. as she walked out of her isolation room, all she could say was, to god be the glory. nancy and david are now spending much-needed time together. >> amen. they both attracted the disease in western africa where nearly 2500 people have been diagnosed with the virus. and turning now to ferguson, missouri, a short time ago governor jay nixon ordered the national guard to leave ferguson, a sign of the

improving conditions there on the ground. last night, only six arrests and none of the rioting despite quiet for the moment, calls are growing louder for the lead prosecutor to step down. today, protesters lined up outside the st. louis county hospital demanding the removal of bob mcculloch. eric holder spoke public about the situation fresh off of his trip there yesterday. >> it will take some time but i think patience is in abundance in ferguson. doesn't mean that this thing should drag on. we will try to do this as expeditiously as we can. on the other hand, at the end of the day, it's most important that we get it right. >> those comments came as holder announced also a record-breaking settlement with bank of america over mortgage fraud. we'll have more on that later in the show. but for the latest from ferguson, we go now to nbc

news's craig melvin in ferguson as well as managing editor of the riverfront times in st. louis. thank you so much for being with us. craig, i wanted to start with you how important is it to folks on the ground that eric holder not only opened up this federal investigation but that he physically came to the community? >> reporter: it meant a lot. it meant a whole heck of a lot yesterday. that's just about what everybody here on the ground said. folks felt reassured by just the presence of the attorney general of the united states reassured that federal governor is going to continue to look at this case and not just look at this case but also look at the pattern and practices of the ferguson police department. it should also be noted that one of the things that i heard from a number of folks, it wasn't the

folks here and talked about a black man in america and racially protested and talking to young people at this technical college and they really don't -- a sense of connection to eric holder. that visit yesterday went a long way. >> you know, jessica, you're there on the ground in the community. we're here watching on television. i'm just kind of curious, what you're seeing that you think maybe is not coming through on television, that you think they know about. >> i think that a lot of people here locally are starting to turn now, you know, i think like we just noted that eric holder's visit meant a lot and a lot of locals are really looking to them to make some important decisions about what is going to happen in the investigation. a lot of people are just talking about that shooting of the 25-year-old by the st. louis metropolitan police department.

a lot of people out here were watching that shooting on their cell phones and talking about that. so as the nation's eyes maybe are turning away from ferguson, locals are starting to look locally for solutions as well. >> craig, one of the reasons that this protest has had so much stamina, perhaps the idea that a lot of folks in ferguson saw michael brown's body laying there in the street for hours and that traumatized them. have people spoken to you about the impact that that had on them? >> reporter: yes. especially in the early days when we were here. you know, you just alluded to it as well, jessica. one of the things that we noted over the course of the past few days in almost two weeks now, a lot of the images that we have seen have been from these camera cell phones. for instance, the officer yesterday who was suspended indefinitely for cursing at a peaceful protester, threatening to kill him, pointing an assault

rifle in their face, captured by a camera phone, captured by a camera phone, it really has been quite remarkable to see how many of these images have been captured by not us, not necessarily the media but just taking out the phone and rolling video. that's something that we're going to, as you know, obviously see a lot of. it's changed it the dynamics in how we cover stories like this and how people live their lives. ten years ago you'd walk down the street and see something, it looked strange, maybe you called 911, maybe you don't. now everyone kind of has the same reaction. they take out their phone, they start recording. that really has been a game-changer. >> jessica, the last two nights have been more peaceful but the underlying deep divide in ferguson remains the same and we

were talking about eric holder being on the ground and people feeling connected to him and how he did a good job of talking about what is going open. there seems to be a disconnect with the mayor of that town, referring to those african-americans, the people that he serves, saying that a majority of them are supportive of their efforts there when that seems that's not necessarily the case. how do you begin to move forward as a community when it seems the man at the top is not fully connected with the people that he serves? >> you know, i think like a lot of small-town mayors from this area, he feels he's got to put his best foot forward and represent his town as if everything is fine. that's got to be tough for him but it comes across as tone deaf for many people. how do you mend that divide, they've already hired a pr company. i heard they've already hired a different pr company. they are trying to strategize

how to reunite and heal ferguson and reunite ferguson. efforts are coming forward to reunite the community but it's too early to tell what's going to work. >> reporter: the healthy detachment of that mayor notwithstanding one of the things from reality notwithstanding. one of the things that we've heard a lot of folks talk about and i had a state rep this morning talking about this, how far this idea would go. cameras, having officers wear body cameras, having officers with dash cameras in their car. that would go a long way, based on some of the folks that we've talked to, that would go a long way in terms of increasing transparency. the issue, as it has been explained to me at least, the issue to this point has been cost. not so much the body cameras but with the dash cameras as well. that's going to be part of the conversation that we see play out over the next few weeks and

months. >> indeed. craig melvin and jessica lussenhop, thank you. this has raised many questions about the use of force in policing. where is that line? also, as craig was just mentioning, could a tiny camera keep cops from crossing that line? plus, one of the biggest finds ever against a u.s. bank. all of those details ahead. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas

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happened and some research suggests the conflict would not be happening at all. >> in california, the use of force by police fell 59% after they were given body cams. joining us to talk about the privacy implications and how these cameras can change police work, eugene o'donnell, officer and now professor of law at john jay college of criminal justice. eugene, does wearing cameras change policing for the good? >> i think what happens is the cops embrace the camera wearing. the public may not be that excited but there's unintended consequences that we have to be aware of, including the possibility that the police will disengage from the political complaints that people have. that's the large issue that people have, especially in poorer neighborhoods, trying to get at the attention of the police. and i think, again, when

according to conduct of citizens, there's likely possible push back. new york has introduced a bill that would criminalize the annoyance of the police. there are first amendment implications there but the chances are citizens are going to start seeing themselves on camera and that could have adverse consequences in their employment. >> eugene, i think in a lot of situations, in fact, back to eric garner, rodney king, the citizens are happy to be videotaped because then their story is believed. >> ordinary people -- if you see where these cameras are -- the larger question is, we have to reduce operatives for conflict and we need to have an agenda to do that. one of the ways to do that is to make arrests a lot more physical, use technology to release people immediately on the scene and not put the police in the middle of these situations. we need to have some legislative reform. we're just overcriminalizing everything.

we need to look at nonlethal weaponry. it's unbelievable in this late stage that we don't have that yet. we need to put our heads in the game and there's lots of opportunities to be creative here. where we can win-wins. the community and the police, we can find common ground, we don't want to keep an adversarial situation here. there are serious public order issues that the community is concerned about. and for the police to be standing down or disengaging, that wouldn't be a good result either. >> so derek, picking up on what eugene is saying there, we had this stat, rialto, california, 59% -- you're saying 59% reduction in complaints but what eugene is saying, obviously we're all for reducing the number of instances of excess of force used by the police but what eugene is saying you have the concern of the police stepping back too much. so can you sort of give more

context about how much of this do we know is problem things that are being resolved versus the police just stepping back too much in general? >> sure. let's start with the study itself. in rialto, california, population 100,000, they ran an experiment where they gave about a quarter pound camera to each police officer. they wore them on their collar, on their glasses, as you saw right there, it looks like google glass for robocop. they did a study after one year and found 88% decline in police complaints, 59% decline in uses of force. exactly what the professor was talking about. the idea that we're talking about here really is the observer effect. it's the hawthorne effect. when a camera is on you, you change the way you behave. look at this very table. >> what are you saying, 59% decline in the use of force. but what he's saying -- sometimes police force is legitimate. so is that picking up on places where there could be a

legitimate need for force where police are stepping back because they are afraid of the camera? >> in an instance like this, you're going to have false positives and false negatives. you're going to have instances where you reduce the use police of force and then there are times where the police officer is scared and he won't act. i think what we have to do is weigh the costs and benefits. would we prefer that occasionally sometimes the police will not step in because they are afraid of how they are going to act knowing that this video is going to be up loaded to a surfer that can be seen? i think that's a pretty safe bet to make and i think the few places that we have seen that use these cameras provides enough circumstantial evidence to think about doing pilot programs in larger cities like new york and actually just an hour ago he talked about the new york senate. they suggested a few hours ago that we should try a 5 million pilot program in new york to put police cameras on some of the officers. >> the reason we're having this conversation, right, is what has happened in ferguson and you ask

in your piece, what if all of the cops on the ground during the most violent nights had a device at all times, what would that have looked like? would that have changed the narrative? >> it's back to this observer effect. we act differently when we know that what we're doing is being cataloged and uploaded to a server and can be analyzed by our bosses who can fire us or give us promotions. it can change behavior and make police officers a little more wary about what they are doing. one other point to make, though, is about cost. on the one hand, it's true. the cameras being used in rialto are $900. with competition, they can fall down to 4, 500. there's benefits on the other side. there's benefits in terms of people suing police officers because you don't have as many excessive force. >> can i jump? because some of this -- to be honest and blunt, this libertarian impulse, which is coming out of think tanks is not necessarily connected to people

on the ground in neighborhoods where people haven't gotten a good night's sleep for two careers, particularly in a minori minority situation, in my experience. there is a little bit of elitism floating around out here that is disconnected from what people -- go to your local meetings on community issues and listen to the complaints that they have and ask yourself, do you think in a climate where the police are wrong no matter what, whether they are going to actively engage these issues? again, i think the real issue is to try to find aggressive political leadership and avoid points of conflict. we have a mental illness crisis, we have -- >> eugene, i actually -- >> it's unbelievable. >> i want to ask you more about that, actually, because there was another shooting, as we know, in st. louis of an officer, a man who was wielding a knife, a call came in that he was acting erratically, that he had stolen two energy drinks and

pastries. the police show up. i want to get your expert judgment on this situation and whether the police had another option here rather than ultimately shooting and killing him. so we're going to play a little bit of the video. we're not going to play it through to the end but enough to give the context of what was going on there. let's take a look. >> he's backing up. he's got his gun out. >> shoot. shoot me. >> [ bleep ]. >> oh [ bleep ]. >> oh [ bleep ]. >> so it's an incredibly tough situation, right? the man has a knife. he's acting strangely, he's moving towards them and yet as a layperson, i look at that situation and i say, isn't there another way for that to end other than that man dead? are there tools that the police officers have to be able to

de-escalate a situation like that and not have it with anybody on the ground? >> it's the mental health system which is a conflict issue. >> but in that moment? >> again, this is inevitable if we turn our jail system at the mental health situation and at that moment i hope that police do enough of a job, which i don't know if they do, in making a very important call when it comes to daily force and you have to have an honest belief that you're going to be heard. so if somebody is waving a knife at you, can you shoot them automatically, the answer is no. i'm not sure the department has spent enough time on that. you have to have an honest belief that you're being heard. you're shooting because you must. not because you can. none of what i'm saying reflects what these officers did because ultimately it's very hard when an officer says, you know how this ended, i don't know how this ended and we had to do this but there's also another issue that's a little exotic but we may have to start thinking about how to disengage the cop os on

some of these issues. the police can make things better by arriving. they can also make things worse. >> yeah. >> so we have to come to grips. we have enough training with policing that there's no backing out of these situations for rightful reasons that if this guy went out and hurt somebody else, the citizen didn't look too afraid. the police, when they come, the stakes are increased. they have deadly weapons. they think worse-case scenario. maybe we have to figure out and of course obviously expertise, the service unit, the problem with a lot of policing is that things are over by the time this specialized units get there. >> all right. eugene and derek, thank you very much for that. up next, we're going to take you to the pentagon where a briefing will begin in moments. "the cycle" rolls on.

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martin dempsey are speaking about the beheading of american journalist james foley at the hands of the islamic state. let's listen in. >> the u.s. appreciates the support of united kingdom, france, italy and united nations in helping provide relief. i expect more nations to step forward with more assistance in the weeks ahead. overall, these operations have stole isis' momentum and enabled iraqi and kurdish forces to take the initiative. as iraqi and kurdish forces continue to take the initiative, the united states will continue to support them. but addresses the threat posed by isil to the future of iraq requires political reform in iraq. the court's peaceful transmission of power last week was important and the united states will continue urging iraq's new prime minister to establish an inclusive government that is responsive to

the needs of all iraq's citizens. the united iraq will be a more secure and prosperous iraq. political reform will make it harder for isil to exploit the sunni international community will increase support for iraq in tandem with political progress. the president, the chairman and i are all very clear-eyed about the challenges ahead. we are pursing the long-term strategy against isil along with the long-term threat. we should expect isil to regroup and stage new offenses. and the u.s. military's involvement is not over. president obama has been very clear on this point. our objectives remain clear and limited to protect american citizens in facilities, to provide assistance to iraqi forces as they confront isil and

address the humanitarian crisis. with that, i'll ask for general dempsey's comments and then we'll take questions. thank you. >> thank you, mr. secretary. as most of you know, i just returned on sunday from a trip to vietnam and today i have my counterpart from singapore visiting. it was quite remarkable to be in vietnam 40 years after our departure from vietnam to discuss opportunities for a new relationship building on our historical investment and incredible sacrifices of those who serve there. my engagements in the region reinforce that we have our shoulder behind the rebounds to the asia pacific, even as our military confronts challenges in other parts of the world. in fact, on sunday i'll depart for afghanistan, which brings me to iraq under the command general lloyd austin, our efforts in iraq have included

636 million bundles of food and medical supply. more than 60 intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance daily, each day. and to date, 89 targeted air strikes conducted by united states air force and united states navy aircraft. these air strikes have protected u.s. persons and facilities and helped prevent humanitarian crisis. as iraq's political future takes shape, i'd emphasize that enduring stability will depend on achieving a credible partner in the iraqi government that must commit to being much more inclusive with all of its population than it has been thus far. and with that, i'd be happy to take your questions. >> bob? >> secretary, in your conversations that isil has been stalled recently and you expect them to regroup, my question is,

can you describe the strategy of enabling the iraqis both politically and militarily to roll back the gains in iraq but they have a sanctuary in eastern syria. >> going back to your point about my statement on what our objectives are, which i just restated in my statement, i would also say, in addition to that, that -- and i think the president has been very clear on this, that we continue to explore all options regarding isil and how we can assess partners in the middle east,

particularly in iraq against isil. you all know in the president's request for a $5 billion anti-terrorism fund there was $500 million in there to assist moderate opposition. so that's what we are looking at. that's what we are doing and we will continue to stay focused, as i said, on what we are doing now and exploring all options as we go forward. >> the options that you refer to, do they include air strikes across the border? >> like i said, we're looking at all options. barbara? >> i wanted to ask both of you specifically on the rescue mission. you both have talked extensively over the years of protecting classified information. even if you have -- were told that the news media was going to publish an article which the state department says you repealed it because you thought the media was going to publish

something, why specifically did both of you -- could both of you answer -- why did you think it was a good idea to officially acknowledge in detail the classified information -- the classified mission about a hostage rescue when there are still american hostages there? are you worried that this could risk other hostage lives when you now have a leak investigation and why did you both think it was a good idea to do that? >> why did we think it was a good idea to -- >> publicly acknowledge the classified mission for a hostage rescue. >> well, to start with, there were a number of news outlets that were aware of the action, of the raid, and it was the

decision made by the administration, which we concurred with, to address the mission. recognizing everything that you said, there's always said, the risk. there continues to be risk in every action or on inaction that we take. also the administration had informed the families of the hostages of this effort. so it was the decision and it was unanimous that we should, in fact, acknowledge this effort without going into any of the specifics of it which we, as you know will not -- as to your question, was this a failure of intelligence? no. the fact is that as you all know, intelligence doesn't come wrapped in a package with a bow.

it is a mosaic of many pictureses, of many factors. the enemy always has a say in everything and the fact is that you always have to work that reality in to any decision you make, but the underlining objective was to do everything we could as the president said to rescue these hostages knowing that their lives were in danger, clearly in danger and it's the responsibility of our government and our leaders to do all we can to take action when we believe there is a good possibility and a good chance to make a rescue effort successful. this operation, by the way, was a flawless operation, but the hostages were not there. so we'll do everything we need

to do that the american people expect from their leaders to continue to do everything we can to get our hostages back. >> do you think that you have -- that the hostage was at risk? was it a good enough reason that the news media was going to write an article about this and double this was an intelligence failure? >> the military advice that was rendered in response to your question was as long as it was a policy decision on to receive the information of the raid. as to whether it was an intelligence failure, i agree completely with the secretary of defense and the mission was executed flawlessly after a significant period of preparation for planning and rehearsal, and it turned out

that the hostages were no longer at that location. >> do you believe they were there at one point? >> i do. >> talk a little bit more about the long-term strategy against isis. secretary of state john kerry said they will be crushed and the president calls them a cancer. if that's the case, why are the u.s. airstrikes so narrowly focused and so limited and why do they delay providing weapons to the kurds and it seems the rhetoric doesn't match u.s. efforts to date. >> first of all, we are providing a tremendous amount of military assistance to the peshmerga through the iraqi security forces. it is one country and there's no question that we've accelerated. if fact, all year long we've accelerated all of the requests made by the iraqi government for legal assistance and equipment and we continue to do that, as

to the comments made by secretary kerry and the president and we all share the same evaluation of isil and the chairman said and secretary kerry said the defeat of isil is not only going to come at the hands of air strikes. one of the things that i noted in my comments here at the beginning of this press conference was an inclusive government in iraq is essential. as to how iraq and the united states and all our international partners are going to also have to deal with isil. the military kinetic actions and air strikes are part of that, but it's bigger than if it's just a military operation, and our efforts as we have executed

the president's strategy on this for the reasons he said, but we're working with international partners and we're working closely with peshmerga and the isf. we are doing everything we can within the confines of our influence to assist and recognize as we said to deal with isil there in the middle east and recognizing that it is a threat, but it it isn't just going to come as a result of air strikes. strategically there are limits to how much you can accomplish with air strikes. tactically, you can accomplish a significant amount. i think we've seen that and i mentioned it in my comments here. so if the broad scope of activity and actions that we are dealing with. >> the peshmerga haven't received the heavy weapons that they requested and you're

creating a task force? >> yes, the secretary has a task force overseas and they've begun to receive supplies, not just, by the way, from us and regional partners and also the government of iraq which is not to be discounted with the significant moment with the possibility that there will be a single state of iraq in the future and we are providing those that we are conducting assessments and those joint operation centers have continued to evolve so this isn't just about our strengths. >> margaret? >> general, do you believe that isis can be defeated or destr destroyed without addressing the cross-border threat from syria and is it possible to contain them? let me start from where you ended and end up where you started. it is possible to contain them and it it seems that their momentum was -- it was the momentum itself that allowed

them to find a way to encourage the sunni population of western iraq and the province to accept their brutal tactics and their presence among them. so you ask, yes, the are answer is they can be contained not in perpetuity. this is a situation that has an apocalyptic, end of days strategic vision which will eventually have to be defeated. to your question, can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in syria? the answer is no. that will have to be addressed on both sides of what is essentially at this point a non-existent border. and that will come when we have a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating isis over time. isis will only truly be defeated when it's rejected by the 20

million disenfranchised sunni that happen to reside between damascus and baghdad. [ inaudible question ] >> it requires a variety of instruments and only one small part of which is air strikes and i'm not predicting those will occur in syria, at least not by the united states of america. it requires the application of all of the tools of national power and diplomatic, information, military. >> my question is for both of you, mr. chairman and mr. secretary. do you have any information that there is a link, a relation between the assad regime and isil? as you may know the assad regime has been striking isil for the last few months. do you see yourself on the same page with the assad regime and do you still believe that assad is part of the problem or he

might become part of the solution in the region? >> well, assad is very much a central part of the problem. and i think it's well documented as to why. when you have the brutal dictatorship of assad and what he has done to his own country which perpetuated much of what is happening or has been happening in syria, so he's part of the problem and as much a part of it as the central core of it. as to your question regarding isil and assad, yes, they are fighting each other as well as other sophisticated terrorist

groups in syria. >> he is absolutely part of the problem. >> kevin? >> secretary, the charters of iraq, going beyond helping humanitarian and beyond protecting americans and directly going after isil through the iraqis or not, does the pentagon believe it has the authority and have you talked to the general counsel or do you need additional or different type of authority going forward? >> to start with, the president's been very clear on the mission, and he's made it very clear that he will not allow that and this is why he's been very clear on what our mission is. we comply with the war powers act and in foreign congress on how many people we have.