were peaceful. a sense of calm is starting to set in now. this is not about a celebrity divorce. this is about federal corruption charges against a virginia governor. 1:00 p.m. on the east coast, 10:00 a.m. on the west coast. let's drill down on today's mounting confrontation with isis. u.s. warplanes struck three new targets in iraq today, the latest in the mounting everyday assault on isis in that country. >> we are conducting operations inside iraq against this group in support of iraqis and kurdish forces. but we're not going to be the only tool in the tool box that can be k or should be used. >> those comments from the pentagon just moments ago. but the big question today is is syria next in this operation? chairman of the joint chiefs says it could be. >> can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in syria? the answer is no. that will have to be addressed on both sides of what is

essentially at this point a non-sis tent border. >> defense secretary chuck hagel suggest this isn't going on the an easy confrontation. >> they're beyond a terrorist group. they marry ideology, a sophistication of strategic and tract cal military prowess, they are tremendously well funded. this is beyond anything that we've seen. >> joining me from martha's vineyard and traveling with the president is nbc's kristin welker. kristin, good to have you back on the program. give us the latest on this kirby presser. >> ronin, thank you for having me back. when asked whether the administration was seriously considering air strikes in syria, rear admiral kirby said this. "we continue to assess and monitor isil activities, that's why we put assessment team there is to get a good situational awareness." that's the official line from the administration right now, ronna ronan. but i can tell you, based on my

conversations president obama is weighing a range of options. he's not putting anything off of the table with the exception of putting boots on the ground, although my sources also tell me that it is not imminent. there's no immediate plans to go into syria. but it's certainly among the options that this administration is considering. and, of course, in the wake of the james foley execution there is mounting pressure on the president to do something. i ice has a very sophisticated pr machine. they have been releasing videos, tweets, taunting the president, threatening the united states. so there's real concern about the threat that isis poses to u.s. interests not only in iraq and in that region but in europe, in the united states. so the administration is considering what steps it might take next. but compare that, ronan, to the fact that when you look at the polls, a majority of americans don't want this administration to go into syria. they don't want the united states to expand its military intervention in that region. so the president weighing a

number of different options right now. there are also a lot of calls on capitol hill for more action. i can tell you that one of the diplomatic moves that is under sway to get more support from u.s. allies like britain, like france. and so if there is a decision to expand this military operation, you could see those allies play a larger role than we're seeing right now. ronan? >> we'll look closer at that diplomatic response right now. kristen welker, appreciate it. we'll be watching for a white house briefing from martha's vineyard minutes from now. we'll bring it to you when it happens. isis presents a looming military threat but it also presents a ticking time bomb for the americans still being held hostage. those are americans like freelance reporter steven sotloff whose life was threatened in the same video that showed foley's execution. new revelations today that isis sent e-mails to the family of james foley attempting negotiations are raising tough questions about america and the world's handling of these hostage situations.

joining me from the state department is marie haar f, deputy spokesperson. good to have you on the program, marie. we'll get to this discussion of hostage tactics in a second. but i want to ask you about the latest discussion of tactics against isis, general dempsey's comments about going into syria in particular. how serious is that discussion of syria? >> well, i think you have an administration right knew is looking long-term at how we can really degrade isil's capabil y capabilities and when you look at how you do that against a terrorist organization, you take out their leadership, cut out their funding and degrade their operational capabilities. you've seen us do some of that in iraq with our strikes as you just mentioned, more even today. but we're having a conversation long term with the iraqis, with other partner in the region of how we can deprive isil of the oxygen it needs to carry out the heinous attacks that we've seen, including this week with james foley. >> you mentioned partners with in the region. is the u.s. considering getting

permission with bashar al assad? >> not at all. let's be clear, we and bashar al assad are not on the same page here in anyway. bashar al assad's regime and his actions are the main driving factor behind why isil's been able to grow so strong. he allowed them flourish in syria. he allowed them to cross the border into iraq and it's the situation he's created that aallowed this huge threat to get much worse. so definitely i want to reject the notion we're on the same page in any way here. >> certainly not on the same page, especially today when the u.s. raised the estimate of dead in syria to 191,000, a lot of them killed by the assad regime. but would it ever be appropriate to work with that regime? >> not at all. i really don't they that's even an option here. on the one hand, while he may sometimes take strikes against isis, on the other, everything he's done is help lead to their growth. so what we believe is we need to build partners like the iraqis, like the kurds, like that moderate opposition inside syria who are fighting not just isis and nusra but also who are fighting the regime.

it's a tough challenge. you heard chairman dempsey speak about it yesterday. this is a long-term challenge, one that we are right now looking at additional options to put into the tool box here. >> marie, there are so many questions today about american hostages being held by isis. what is the state department doing to help secure the release of steve sotloff? >> this whole administration has put every effort behind first finding but then securing the release of these american hostages. as you saw this week, we spoke about a military operation we attempted to rescue these hostages and unfortunately they were not there. on the diplomatic side, we reach out to everyone pleading for people might have leverage or influence over isis. the unfortunate reality is that isis answers to no one. they are a group that has attacked muslims, sunni and shi'a, yazidi, christians and now an american. so we are putting every effort behind this but we have been clear that we don't pay ransom

for two very specific reasons. the first is that we don't want to fund ie sfoil do more of these kind of activities and we also don't want to encourage them to take additional americans hostage and think they would be able to get a ransom if they did so. >> is there concern that the highly public -- it was not called by the u.s. government, a prisoner swap, but reportedly prisoner swap for bowe bergdahl created incentives for more kidnappings by groups like al qaeda, like isis? >> not at all bowe bergdahl was a u.s. military serviceman. there are well-established rules for how we bring our servicemen home. that doesn't mean we don't put every resource we have at our disposal towards finding these hostages and bringing them home. people in this building starting with secretary kerry and a whole team of people here have worked with the intelligence community, with the fbi, with anyone else who might be able to help bring them home. but as you've seen, isis is a brutal group that is willing to kill anyone who comes into their

path. this is a very tough challenge. >> journalist david rode who was himself held hostage by terrorists wrote a new piece in the "atlantic" saying it's the clearest evidence yet of how vastly different responses by the u.s. and european governments save european hostages but can doom americans. >> we don't think a government should pay a ransom demand to a terrorist group. we think it fuels more kidnappings. we think it puts every american overseas at increased risk if terrorists think they can get money out of the u.s. government. that's why we don't do it. we also know that one of the main sources of funding for isil, one of the reasons they've been able to grow in syria and iraq is because of the millions and millions of dollars many from western countries that they've gotten from ransoms of kidnappings. so we don't think we should be putting u.s. government dollars behind funding a terrorist group's activities. that's something we feel very strongly about.

but we do put every tool at our disposal towards finding them and bringing them home? is the state department going to be doing more work with our allies to get different governments on the same page on that? >> well, certainly we've had the conversation, ronan. we think it's an important one. we understand why families, certainly employers, people want to do everything in their power to bring people home. we certainly share that sentiment. in terms of the ransom issue, we do have that conversation with our partners, particularly in europe. and we also reach out to our partners in the region who may have some leverage with some of these groups or any way to help find them. >> those are tough conversations and important ones. marie harf, deputy spokesperson at the state department, appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, we have a second night of calm in ferguson behind us. but michael brown's funeral is still ahead, this monday. and today there are new questions swirling about the police's actions and tactics. is this calm going to last? we'll look at that with a live update from the scene right after this break.

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in ferguson right now there are more questions than answers, that includes new questions about an incident report in the michael brown case. we'll have an update on that from nbc in just a moment. in the meantime, we're looking at a newfound calm in ferguson today. just seven arrests overnight compared with 47 early wednesday morning. the national guard is also on its way out of that community and school is finally going to start monday -- same day as michael brown's funeral. >> the kids that were there today gave me this sock puppet before i left and there isn't a better sight that can bring a smile to our face and hope to our heart when we can see a table with a coloring book, a

box of crayons and a sock puppet instead of weapons and molotov cocktails? >> let's get the msnbc's craig mel i have been in ferguson. craig, there have been a lot of accusations swirling about this incident report, first reports that there wasn't one filed and that may have been atypical then information that that may have been standard procedure. can you clear that unfor us? >> i can try. i just got off the phone with our nbc news investigative unit. here's the t thing -- this is what was filed by the ferguson police department and it's somewhat confusing because at the top it says "incident report." the problem or not so much a problem but the reality is that in this report no officers are listed, no narrative of events, no preliminary conclusions are drawn in this report. that's because all of that was turned over immediately to the county so there is a county

incident report, so to speak, the county, of course, the county handing the investigation. that information is not going to be released, we're told, while the grand jury is impanel sod perhaps in mid-october we will get the narrative of events from the officers who responded, some preliminary conclusions. hopefully that helps clear up some confusion about this incident report. meanwhile, we also learned over the last 24 hours that darren wilson, the 28-year-old officer who shot and killed michael brown, we do know now that he was, in fact, treated for some injuries at a hospital right after that incident. what we do not know, though, is the extent of the injury, how severe was the injury or injuries: we also don't know whether he was admitted to the hospital as well. again, that's some more information that is being withheld while the grand jury is impaneled. >> a lot of information out there being publicly reported about the nature of those injuries, we'll wait for

conversation from our nbc news team there. nbc's craig melvin, thanks for the update from the ground. the confusion over this incident report is sparking a fresh round of legal questions in this already really complex case. let's bring in criminal defense attorney john burris to help us sort this out. john, we just heard that it was standard procedure in the view of the police that they turn this over to the county and standard procedure that we haven't heard anything from that county investigation. do you agree with that assessment? >> well, i think it's -- i have no problem with the fact that it's been turned over to the county. i am a little surprised ha the very narratives, the initial narratives of what were said and wrote down were not made public in the interest of transparency. you can take this whole question of secrecy way too far. the fact that a report has been prepared for the county, that's not a secret document, that's a public document. what goes before the grand jury is, in fact, secret. but there's no reason why that information could not have been made initially. and the reason why it's significant is that the police

set forth a narrative at the very outset about what happened. so was this a statement from darren wilson given? so i don't think it's necessarily proper and it's not good policing and doesn't promote transparency for the county to hold that information and there's no legal requirement far to occur. >> and could the county holding that information for the time being influence the grand jury proceedings? >> well, certainly grand jury is a secret proceeding and whatever the county has it will present and it can present it in any fashion they so please. i don't know that it influences the fact that it has not been given out because the document is what it is. the statements are what they are. at the end of the grand jury, it's a question of how the d presents it and -- how the d.a. presents it and how the evidence is presented to the grand jury. but the mere fact that it hasn't been released in and of itself i don't think it has a negative impact on the grand jury proceedings. >> john, there's also a lot of controversy about the prosecuting attorney in this case. we talked about that.

there are calls for his refusal. listen to what missouri governor jane nixon told our own chris hayes. >> when you have challenges like the ones we've seen, you want to rely on the pillars of our democracy. one of of those pillars is having local elected prosecutors and thor is having transparency and checking so in this situation we have both, we have a local elected prosecutor who, no, i'm not going to take him off the case. he said he's going to -- >> you're saying that now. you are not going to appoint a special prosecutor? >> right. no, i'm not. >> he said "i'm not taking him off the case." but he said it would be very easy for him to refuse himself, perhaps a passing of the buck there. how tip squall this kind of back and forth? >> i think that it's not often that the d.a. is recused. that rarely happens, frankly, it happened in trayvon martin, but that's not something that's very likely. now the issue around the department itself, how large is this particular county? if i were concerned about it, i

would be more concerned about the jury pool itself, number one, and number two, the experience of the prosecution and whether or not the prosecution officers are prepared to put any real money and creativity behind this issue. so the fact that it's a political thing going back and forth i don't think that we ought to be that concerned about that. it's really a question of whether the prosecutor's office itself is going to put the kind of money and the kind of experience behind it, but even all of that, i'll tell you, this case is going to turn on the jury selection, just like it did in trayvon martin, who are the people going to be on that jury, whether or not they're pro-police, whether or not they are understanding of the kind of hits that could happen between the police and the community. both are challenging issues. i know they're down the road. i don't think we ought to be too locked in. it would be good, i think, in the prosecutor were to lead and recuse himself because that is a controversial issue that's around here. that can happen. but it hasn't happened so if it doesn't happen i think you've got to go forward with putting the best possible people and worry about that jury pool at some later point.

>> all right, a lot of contentious pieces of this to unfold. john burris, very helpful to give this interview. just ahead, when an enemy spans two countries, has called for your death and has brutally murdered your citizens, how do you respond? we talk to former cia director james woolsey about what we know and what we don't know about isis. that's after the break. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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>> we strongly condemn this action and any of the actions that russian forces take that increase tensions in the region. russia should not send vehicles, persons, or cargo of any kind into ukraine whether under the guise of humanitarian convoys or any other pretext. >> the red cross was supposed to help escort the convoy over the border but it canceled its plans due to shelling in the area. we've got new details today about the tactics of isis, the terror group that kidnapped and killed american journalist james foley. days before his execution, isis sent his parents a chilling e-mail saying their son would pay the price for the u.s. air strikes in iraq. john and diane foley spoke out today on "morning joe" remembering their son. >> he just was so committed to the people whose suffering he was trying to -- >> humanize. >> humanize. and he wanted the world to know how people were suffering. particularly the children

touched him so much. >> american air strikes don't stop -- if american air strikes don't stop, isis is threatening to kill a second american journalist, steven sotloff. you're looking at live pictures at martha's vineyard where we're expecting to learn more about this mounting u.s. confrontation with isis, including new questions about the u.s. expanding its current military campaign. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey, says isis cannot be contained without going into syria and in both iraq and syria one of the biggest challenges for u.s. operations -- black holes in our intelligence, areas where our ability to gather information is hamstrung by remote locations and by growing isis control. james woolsey was the director of the central intelligence agency under president clinton. thank you for being here, sir. james, when it comes to isis, what are the biggest intelligence unknowns right now? >> well, they grow out of the

fact that we're not on the ground there where they are and that puts some real limitations on what we can learn. we can learn a good deal from droneses, from satellites, from intercepting communications and the rest but not being able to be there physically is a big problem. >> and there are new reports out there about mounting alliances, unexpected ones, even, between al qaeda and isis. do you have any information on that? >> totalitarian thugs have no problem working together, even if they have somewhat different philosophies. the nazis and the communists were allies for the first two years of world war ii. we have a situation where these various groups of totalitarian th thugs will form alliances with one another for one purpose, syria will work with isis and they may be tray them a little bit somewhere, i don't know.

you can't assume that these allegiances are long term. we have to move against at one time or another -- and this is tactics -- we have to move against anyone who would harm us and isis -- that's certainly isis but it's also at least in time syria. >> so certainly some possibility of collaboration although we've received conflicting reports from our own intelligence units about exactly how much of a new alliance there may be on the table. some people still skeptical of that. in general in syria you mentioned the challenge of gathering human intelligence in these places. as the u.s. contemplates more operations on the syrian side of this conflict what makes that count ray particularly tough environment for intelligence gathering. >> well, i think, president obama's decision to draw a red line in n the sand for the maintenance of chemical weapons and then to say whoops and

ignore red line once they started using chemical weapons basically damaged our ability to enforce our will in that that part of the world very severely. i think that was major event in modern middle eastern history and it was a big mistake. >> could intelligence cooperation with the bashar al assad regime be on the table out of necessity? >> maybe for a time. we worked closely stalin for three years and eight months of world war ii. sometimes you have to cooperate with and share information with bad guys but we should not get distracted. bashar al assad's regime is one that creates major problems in the middle east including sanctioning and helping isis. if it weren't for syria, i ice would not be nearly as far along as it is. >> you've been advocating for

more intervention in syria for quite some time, going back to 2006, even. it is a necessary evil of undertaking that kind of an intervention to work with assad? >> sometimes you have to have discussions with or go beyond that even with bad guys. i use the example of our alliance with stalin in world war ii. it's a tactical decision. we couldn't get tied up in any philosophical justification of the syrian regime. it's a terrible, murderous regime and whether early or late we should try to have a hand in ending it as well as ie zblis former director of central intelligence james woolsey. very interesting take in the operations we are looking at as a country right now. appreciate it. coming up, this shooting you see here, we have video, is sending shock waves through the country. . would these officers have behaved differently if a simple

piece of technology -- i think we're getting to the point where there's police intervention -- had been added to their gear? it's a debate tens of thousands of you have been weighing in on. stay tuned for an update. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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held no. he just straight put them on the ground, bro, like somebody's going to touch it. >> this is not how you do it, bro, you know what i'm saying? >> let him go. >> the police are going to pull up. y'all call the police? >> we called them, man. >> come on, bro. >> get your hands out of your pocket. >> shoot me! shoot me! shoot me! >> drop the knife. >> oh, they got their guns out. >> stop it, bro. >> we're stopping this video here. it's nbc news and msnbc policy to not show people being killed. police say powell was wielding a knife. you saw him there approaching them saying "shoot me." still, this is raising some

tough questions for this state and for this country. john gaskin of the st. louis county naacp is here while st. louis alderman antonio french is here also. thank you for being on the program. mr. gaskin, i'll start with you. what the the release of the video doing to the already fragile relationship between police and people in missouri. >> well, it furthers our argument that many people on the ground distrust the local police department, that they have a fear of police here on the ground, that they fear police officers and they feel as though many police officers here do not have their safety as the number one priority. that's exactly why the naacp youth are leading a march this saturday at 3:00 -- 2:00, excuse me, here in ferguson to put up -- make a stand of everything that's happening in america. we have youth across the country are very upset about that. we have board member theresa veer here on the ground that are providing mentorship to these young people to help them

channel their energy. but that's one of the reasons we're having a huge national march here in st. louis this weekend. >> john, these officers were doing their job. they claim they were threatened with a knife. but what does this encounter reveal about how prevalent the use of deadly force is in these kinds of encounters? >> it almost makes you wonder the type of training that these officers are receiving. i was just speaking with mr. french earlier. for these types of things to happen, whatever laws, whatever regulations are in place, this officer should certainly be dealt with because i've seen the video and the manner which this man appeared to almost be slaughtered is completely unacceptable. >> alderman french, this shooting isn't related to what's happening in ferguson, but do you anticipate the release of this video sparking a reaction from protesters there on the ground where you are? >> well, i was on the scene there in the baden neighborhood where that young man was killed shortly after it happened.

i actually was there as the crowd started to form. and, you know, one thing i tried to assure those folks is that the city of st. louis is not ferguson. and one of the things that led to the frustration and unrest in ferguson is that they didn't have representation, they didn't have folks that had their back in city government and quickly their government turned their weapons on the citizens and went to war with them in their streets. that's not what's going to happen in st. louis city. now, that's a tragic incident. it's very tragic that that young man was killed. it angers a lot of people. people are rightfully frustrated and angry with the way police interact with young african-american men in their neighborhoods. but i've told folks that we've got to prepare ourselves that because this is a different instance and because that man did have a weapon and did approach police that this will be a discussion more about changing the current rules and changing the current laws and not about indictment or punishment of that officer because, unfortunately, you

should current laws he probably will be cleared of those charges. so we're starting a long discussion of healing the city. we're calling for hearings which will be conducted probably in about two weeks in st. louis city to talk about st. louis city policy in these kind of situations. >> alderman french, john's group, the naacp there, is holding a rally tomorrow in ferguson and one of the demands they're making is requiring officers to wear body cameras. that's also a proposal the city of ferguson has gotten behind saying they're committed to raising funds to integrating those in their officers' uniforms. how important could that step be in addressing calls for accountability in ferguson? >> that's a good thing. i think we've asked for so far two very specific asks for the city of st. louis, at least. one is the body cameras. i think those help reassure folks that at least justice will be served even if a tragedy does occur. but the second one is a civilian review board. people need to know that there will be accountability after a police action like this and there's not a lot of faith that

police internally would be able to deliver justice and so i think a civilian review board will help. >> alderman antonio french and john gaskin of the naacp. thank you very much to both of you. missouri isn't alone in wrestling with these accusations of police brutality. just this week, a new turning point here in new york in the choke hold death of eric garner with his confrontation with police. staten island district attorney now says he's going to convene a special grand jury to determine whether charges should be filed. and, like ferguson, new york city is considering one of these pilot programs to outfit officers with cameras. i sat down with new york city public advocate leticia james who's behind the proposal. i started out by asking why some police departments have opted for dash cams but not body cams. >> we've seen some really powerful images here in new york city and in ferguson, missouri, and clearly the national debate has changed in the aftermath of

the death of michael brown and eric garner and what we need to do is improve police relations and in other jurisdictions throughout the city of new york they have outfitted their police officers with body cameras to basically record encounters, street encounters, in other jurisdictions and they have resulted in a reduction in liability to the city of new york. they've resulted in more transparency and more accou accountabili accountability, and they've improved police/community relationships. >> what do you say to critics who say this makes it harder for police to do their jobs? >> i think, in fact, hit epps police officers. in rialto, california, there has been an 88% reduction in false complaints against police officers. police officers have been exonerated as a result of cameras. so i think it's a win-win not only for the police but also for residents. >> we have a demo of this technology. our producer anthony has one of these cameras on him. thank you, anthony. you guys can see it at home and i think we have a video feed of what it captured.

we're here on the camera. leticia, you mentioned this data on how effective it can be. 60% drop in the use of force against officers, 88% complaint of use of force in rialto, california. but this work in large metropolitan areas? >> los angeles has a pilot program, san diego has a pilot program, suffolk county, nassau county, new orleans has a pilot program going forward. i think it's something we should try. in additioning to that, it saves the city money. we pay out $152 million in claims as a result of individuals who file complaints against police officers. to outfit only 15% of the police force in new york city under a pilot program it would only cost taxpayers $5 million. >> and i think the other argument here is that this can benefit officers. bill bratton, the nypd commissioner, actually came out and made that argument. he said "so much of what goes on in the field is he said/she said and the camera offers an

objective perspective. officers not familiar with the technology may see it as harmful but the irony is officers tend to benefit because very often the officer's version of events is the accurate version." >> exactly. an objective record of the incident as opposed to hearsay and he said/she said and of course i support police commissioner bratton and i would urge the implementation in the city of new york. >> i think we've still got that live camera footage going just showing exactly what the perspective is. anthony? there shooting us live. you get a full picture of what's going on at the time. the other question here, leti a leticia, is how this video is handled as it's rolling out in communities. clearly the visual can go viral, it can reveal potential misconduct as we saw with the eric garner video, anthony still keeping us accountable here. but we have a report from atlantic city lance saying that san diego police effectively locked away any of their videos of this type in a vault and threw away the public's key. once you have these cameras in

place, which is something you're fighting for, how do you ensure the video is treated fairly? >> obviously there's concerns with regards to storage, civil liabilities, with regards to who will store it and have control over the video. i understand that. and all of that will be worked out in its implement nation the city of new york so clearly going forward the technology will change and will address the concerns that have been addressed but i think for the most part, again, a reduction in cost to taxpayers, to accountability, transparency and, again, it will not only help the public but the police officer falsely accused. >> it's a proposal that's getting mounting support. it's certainly not a panacea but it's something that maybe can chip away at this very important problem around the country. thank you so much leticia, appreciate your work on. this and thank you to anthony terrell, our producer shooting us live with this incredible new technology. as we mentioned, police departments around the country have been using these cameras, rolling them out gradually and producing some data that shows

them to be effective so far? think that should be a widespread approach? sign this white house petition requiring body cameras to be worn by all police. it's this week's call to action and it's acquired nearly 142,000 signatures with more than 29,000 since we began our call on monday. we're happy you're chiming in on this. keep it coming. it's an important issue. up next, another important story today. the hunt for james foley's executioner is on and leads keep coming back to the uk. has that country become a breeding ground for terrorists? we head there next. ♪ the last four hours have seen... one child fail to get to the air sickness bag in time.

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now. that, of course, is the jihadist responsible for the death of journalist james foley. he speaks with an english accent and, more specifically, a london accent. what else do we know about this man? joining me now peter know man, a professor of security studies at kings college london. professor, thank you for coming on the program. we know that foreign jihadists are linking up with isis from countries around the world, but particularly from the uk, from france, from belgium. why is western europe such a breeding ground for people who want to join this organization? >> in a lot of western european countries you have a muslim population that is quite badly integrated. they've been here for two or three generations, they still do not feel accepted, they don't feel they belong to europe or to britain or to any of the countries where they are living and they're quite us is september to believe the appeal of extremist groups. >> vice has been recording on some of the social media activity that trend has generated. they're using the phrase "jihadi

selfies." post to social media from british mostly young men documenting some pretty alarming activities and often glorifying them. can you tell me if this kind of traffic could lead to clues for the intelligence community? >> absolutely. so this is the most socially mediated conflict in history. i would guess about 80% of the foreign fighters from western countries are on twitter, facebook, instagram, they're posting pictures and lots of information about themselves so based on that information you can whittle down the number of potential suspects. you can look at the height, the build, the eye color, you can look at the fingernails, even the fact that he's probably left-handed and you can probably exclude a lot of people and you can identify the potential suspects that may be the person we're looking for. >> another way in which europe has loomed large in this debate today is in european policy often times on hostage

negotiation being very much at odds with that of the united states. according to the "new york times," the main source of funding for al qaeda actually comes from kidnapping european hostages and holding them for ransom. they've earned at least$125 million that way, just in recent yea years. what happens to this policy of not negotiating with terrorists, and why does it seem to stop short of europe? >> well, britain has the same position as america. it doesn't pay ransom. some european countries do. >> france in particular. >> absolutely. france, italy, germany has paid in the past. what these countries would argue is that policy doesn't work if, for example, you have american or british nationals who have hostage or ransom insurance. the governments will not pay, but their companies will pay. so it's a very difficult subject. but there's a lot of pressure being exerted on european countries not to pay for

precisely that reason. groups have funded themselves from hostage takings. >> it's an agonizing debate with such high human stakes. peter, thank you for helping us sort that out. >> thank you. >> and up next, a very serious illness and a social media challenge from it that's been all over your feeds. you asked, i took the challenge. stick around to watch the video. wondering what that is? that, my friends, is everything. and with the quicksilver card from capital one, you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase. not just "everything at the hardware store." not "everything, until you hit your cash back limit." quicksilver can earn you unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you could possibly imagine. say it with me -- everything. one more time, everything! and with that in mind... what's in your wallet?

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thank you all at home for viewing. i appreciate your time. before we go, yesterday i was challenged to the als ice bucket challenge. people help me put together this incredible show on air every single day had a little fun as i took up the challenge. >> all right. nick christoph challenged me. i accept. let's do it, guys. oh, yeah! let's get some variety. yeah! that was awesome. >> mandy moore, you have 24 hours. madam secretary, please forgive me. to donate and look at more videos, search #alsicebucketchallenge. now it's time for "the reid report" with my colleague joy reid. >> don't even think about it.

you're going to have to have a conversation with my hairstylists. >> very sensitive to hair situations. >> doesn't sound like a good idea. appreciate it. all right, man. thanks very much. next on "the reid report," we're following the latest developments out of ferguson, missouri, where i will talk with a lawmaker who's leading the charge to challenge the prosecutor on michael brown case. and we'll get perspective on what life is like in st. louis county from two young men who live there and talk about what they're doing to try and bring back some positivity. and the long-term threat of isis and what the u.s. is trying to do to stop them. "the reid report" is next.

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>> sure. well, first of all, with respect to the chinese jet, i know the pentagon spoke to this earlier today. it's obviously a deeply concerning provocation, and we've communicated directly to the chinese government our objection to this type of action. in terms of the additional details, i think the pentagon spoke to those. but again, what we've encouraged is constructive military-to-military ties with china. and this type of action is clearly -- violates the spirit of that engagement, and we've made our concerns known directly to beijing. with respect to the developments in ukraine, we very much condemn the violation -- flagrant violation of ukraine's sovereignty that we saw today with the movement of this russian convoy into ukraine. there had been negotiations during which it was made clear that ukraine would have to accept the delivery of any humanitarian convoy into the country. it was made clear that the icrc

would have to participate in the delivery of any humanitarian assistance. that has not taken place. the icrc is not a part of this delivery. the government of ukraine did not give agreement for this convoy to move within their borders. i think this is part of a pattern that we've seen in recent weeks and that we've highlighted of russian support to arm separatists in eastern ukraine that violate's ukraine's sovereignty and destabilizes the situation. so we are, again, deeply concerned about this. we're in touch with the ukrainian government. we will be in touch today with our partners at the u.n. security council to discuss next steps. russia should take the opportunity to remove this convoy from within ukraine. if they don't, they will facing additional costs and consequences from the united states and our partners in the international community. >> can you confirm that apparently nato is saying there are russian artillery in ukraine as well?

>> we have seen the use of russian artillery in ukraine in the past days. i wouldn't want to speak to an individual instance today, but it certainly has been a pattern whereby we've seen firing from within russia into ukraine. and we've seen a disturbing movement of russian artillery and military equipment into ukraine as well. i'd say that this takes place in the context of the separatists dramatically losing support within eastern ukraine, and the ukrainian military making gains in places like luhansk and donetsk. the way, however, to respond to that situation and the humanitarian needs, legitimate humanitarian needs in eastern ukraine, is to pursue a path of de-escalation, not to move forward with further violations of ukraine's territorial sovereign integrity, which has only alienated russia from the people of ukraine and isolated russia in the