organizers say they must stand together and educate the youth. register eligible voters and continue the conversations toward equality. these are little steps that can be a big step toward change we need. and that we must work for. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. obama's war. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with the killers. the thousands of them who have joined up to maraud across borders, murdering anyone who refuses to share their fanatic creed. the only question is how we eradicate this isis bunch. experts say we can't do it by the air strikes we have been

training on them. we can't be sure the president will keep those forces in the air over iraq. the dilemma is here. it stares us in the face. do we escalate the war in isis or let it continue to the death or hit a little bit more and let them continue on their murderous path? do we do a little or do everything? there is a lesson we have learned again and again. when we leave a country the land is controlled by those who stay there. richard engel is nbc news chief foreign correspondent and has more from turkey. >> reporter: chris, they are dropping hints. for two days in a row white house officials, military officials suggesting quite overtly that the united states may have to start preparing for the fact that the u.s. mission will be expanding significantly. it won't be just about air strikes against isis in iraq but across the border into syria as well. it seems quite possible, maybe likely that those could be happening according to officials we have been speaking to. the reason is the current policy

isn't working. isis operates on both sides of the border. it's in syria and in iraq. if the military is just attacking in iraq, clearly that's leaving a very large part of the organization untouched. things changed just last month with that raid. that secret commando raid that's only now coming out, a few details are emerging. what was significant is defense secretary hagel said although the rate didn't succeed in recovering hostages it went smoothly. that means when u.s. fighterer jets, u.s. attack helicopters entered syrian air space, they weren't attacked. the syrian air defenses, which as we have been talking about as being sophisticated didn't target in. didn't lock in on american jets and seemed to ak by es to their presence as long as they were going toward the isis

stronghold. it could have been interpreted as a green light that if the u.s. wants to car rery out operations against isis in syria, the syrian government wouldn't mind. >> thank you, richard. for more on the threat from isis, i'm joined by nbc political analyst colonel jack jacobs and evan coleman, an nbc news terrorism analyst. the same i have been having in my head for days. how do we win a limited war, go from limited air strikes to crushing the enemy as secretary of state john kerry put it the other day? i will start with jack jacobs. how do we do both -- keep it limited and win all out war to eradicate isis? >> the irony is our ally in the whole thing has to be syria. >> right. >> just a couple of months ago people were talking about how we needed to squash assad. we need to be on the side of the rebels. exactly the opposite is going to be the case if we want to go

after isis. our ally has to be assad. otherwise we won't be able to do it. it will require not only air assets but on the ground. that means assad. >> who fights from the iraqi side if we have assad with us at least by implication on the syrian side. who takes on isis besides us on the iraqi side? >> the only allies there -- it's not baghdad. we have been relying on baghdad for some time to no avail. it has to be the kurds. we have to have more advisers on the ground. more special forces and special operations forces inside iraq in order to train the persshmerga. >> p i have a picture now which shows how much territory in iraq and syria isis has taken over. look at the before and after

here. you have syria and iraq. now look at the big splotch. they have as much territory as either the syrians or the iraqis have. how do we eradicate that from the world map with limited air strikes? >> i will tell you how you don't do it. you don't focus isis's forces in iraq which is the most ridiculous strategy i have heard of. it would be like fighting world war ii by only fighting germans in france and avoiding belgium and germany. there have been are people suggesting that we don't know enough to strike where they are located in syria or we don't enough about whether or not they are trying to strike the united states. it's clear that the u.s. government has been aware for some time that these individuals were torturing a u.s. hostage. they were making ridiculous demands and apparently intended to execute this man. they have been attempting to carry out terrorist attacks in western countries including the

united states and various different locations in europe. why it's taken to this point to launch air strikes in syria is difficult to understand. this is a very serious problem we have. to let it metastasize to this point before taking real action, this is not the way the foreign policy is run. >> today deputy national security adviser ben rhoads refused to rule it out in syria. >> i don't want to get ahead of decisions the president hasn't been presented with specific military options outside of those that are carrying out the current missions in iraq. we would look at what's necessary in the long term to make sure we are protecting americans. you heard the president say we will be relentless against isil. we'll do what's necessary to protect americans and see justice is done for what we saw

with the bar baric killing of jim foley. we are going to consider what's necessary to deal with the threat. we are not going to be restricted by borders. >> here is a holistic question for you, colonel jacobs. nobody asked you the big picture question. i will. would we be better off if we had that clown gadhafi, assad, his son, saddam hussein? wouldn't we be better if we left it as it was? >> the short answer is absolutely yes. the most surprised guy in the world when we showed up in iraq to topple saddam hussein was saddam hoo sane. he's saying, i'm on your side, trying to get rid of the guys in iran and you're coming to get rid of me. it doesn't make sense. it's easy to be sanctimonious and say everybody needs a republican form of democracy. we see what happens when we try

to force it on people who don't want it. it turns out that the enemy of our enemy is our friend and vice versa. it was a very bad thing. the original sin was going into iraq. this has not helped. it may be the arab spring and all the nonsense since that time would have happened anyway. but unlikely to have happened as quickly as it did or when it did if we hadn't bothered to topple saddam hussein and been on what a lot of people think is the wrong side in egypt. >> i still consider mubarak a friend of the united states even if our government doesn't. let me ask you this. the pottery barn rules. colin powell saying if you break it, you bought it. i think w. broke it but i don't think obama bought it. if he goes into iraq it's not to save iraq no matter how many times he says he'll bring the three sides together -- sunni, shia and the kurds. i think there is an obama war.

they killed an american because he was an american, a christian, they did it to get us. that was a national attack on our country though it was done there. do you think obama's got the blood in him to fight an obama war over there against isis now? a real war. >> i hope so. again, i find it difficult that it's gotten to this point so quickly. look. these folks wanted to strike us for some time. we should have come to this realization a long time ago. in order to fight these folks we have to get serious. i understand when people say, look, we don't want to get involved in iraq. it was such a mistake. this is not the same conflict. there are distinct u.s. national security interests at play now. people are being trained to come back and launch targeted attacks in the u.s. homeland. this happened long before we launched air strikes. it was something they planned

for a long period of time. it involves essential u.s. security interests. i hope president obama realizes that. i hope the whus realizes it. what we have seen so far has been an insufficient response, not a serious enough response. they need to change the tempo now. >> let me go back to jack on this. it seems to me the neo-cons in the defense department and the vice president's office and who write on the on sed pages relentlessly know more about the middle east than i do. they are hawks about israel and i accept that. if they really cared about the future of israel, just that country, why allow all this stuff to come apart? it seems israel was more secure before the rejumbling, whatever you -- 52-card pick-up. throw everything in the air and see what comes down. it was much better off. why did they go after the secular governments that were no threat to us or really deep down to israel's existence.

they were never a threat. >> it's a very significant issue here. in fact, the only people we have heard from on our side in all of this is israel. all of the people who were a threat in the region, the other people, arab countries, nothing. all the people who were also a threat -- europe, nothing. in fact, we did it all wrong. now we are going to pay for it. i agree with evan that we are supposed to do something. we have to do something. we have to think strategically, not just tactically. trust me. i think the political imperatives will drive the president to do little or nothing. >> evan, your thoughts. george bush, sr., he and jim baker were fantastic at putting together the arab league. they got the first gulf war paid for by the japanese and germans. the checkbook powers they were called. they got everybody together against saddam hhussein. is there a way to gather the

forces of the arab states to go after isis? >> the most important thing we can do aside from any kind of military action is to galvanize sunni resistance within syria and iraq. in other words galvanize individuals who may be sunni insurgents who may not have liked the maliki government but realize isis is a fanatical movement that's a posed to their interests and ours. we have to gall va are niez them, make sure they are armed and ready to confront isis. unfortunately when you see incidents like what happened in iraq today where you are see 50 sunni are individuals who were at a mosque being massacred by shiite militiamen, that's what we don't know, what will prevent us from galvanizing sunni support for fighting against isis. without that, no amount a of military power, pill tear strikes will make the difference.

>> the person who can bring the sunnis to the side is the war against isis will be the greatest people of our time. it will be a challenge given the atrocity that happened with the shias killing 50-some sunnis. thank you, colonel jacobs. i'm afraid we'll be back to you a lot in the coming weeks and months. evan kohlman, good to have you on. >> thank you. >> it looked like a war zone in ferguson. after a heartfelt visit from the attorney general eric holder and the beginning of a grand jury investigation into michael brown's shooting, things look very different, at least for now. on wednesday, president obama called the killers of james foley unfit for the 21st century. then he played a happy round of golf. his critics say the president doesn't care how he looks. and scenes from a marriage. the melodrama from richmond is the stuff of soap opera. today former virginia governor bob mcdonnell testified there was no quid for the quo he got

from businessman johnny williams. is the jury buying that? remember how the blues brothers got back together? it feels like 2012 now that paul ryan is pushing former running mate mitt romney to make a go of it in 2016. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

new polling in the senate race in new hampshire. according to a new poll gene shah sheen leads scott brown by just two points. shaheen 46 and the former massachusetts senator brown at 44. if brown wins in new hampshire, expect the republican sweep on election night. we'll be right back. each years won't have a claim. that's why allstate claim free rewards gives you money back for every year you don't have one. and why if you're part of the other 5%, allstate offers claim rateguard.

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the past seven days have delivered brutal images. we have seen local police with semi-automatic rifles, flash bombs going off in the streets. protesters writhing from teargas and throwing molotov cocktails at the police. attorney general eric holder was on the ground during the height of the tensions to assure the community out there that their voices will be heard. there is calm on the streets right now. the national guard is leaving. the question is how do things stay calm and what happens now. craig melvin has been out there and delivered exceptional coverage for us all week long. he joins us on the ground. craig, thank you. congratulations on great reporting. your sense of it as an observer, put it together. is there a trend line here or is it in cycles? how do you see it in terms of the community reaction? >> i think, chris, we are finally at a point where the violent image you were talking about, clashes with police, i

think we have seen the end of those. i believe that right now behind me on the street there are not so many protesters, maybe 10, 12 protesters. there seems to be a small block party behind me over the past 30 minutes or an hour. playing music across the street. serving barbecue over there. not a single police officer is visible for me at least. i can see about a block in either direction. there are a number of community meetings. there is a peacefest scheduled for this weekend. the parents of trayvon martin are going to be in town. you get the sense now that the community is past the anger stage and to grief trying to make sure something like this doesn't happen ever again in an american city to a young black boy or any young person for that

matter. >> with me is captain johnson of the police force out there and of course eric holder. i think they are real people. that's my view. can you analyze quickly what the impact was? the jenltlemen i mentioned. >> i think when we look back on th this, the eric holder visit will be a pivotal moment. before the attorney general is when things were at their worst. the teargas, 70 arrests monday, nearly 50 on tuesday. talking to folks after the attorney general left town, they really started to feel like, at least they told me they felt they were assured that there was not going to be railroading. there is a genuine distrust here of not just folks who make the rules but enforce the rules as well.

when the attorney general talked about the parallel investigation being fair, that did a great deal to assuage the fears and concerns here. captain johnson really does walk on water. i spent time with him earlier this week. seeing folks come up to him and thank him. a lot of folks in the neighborhoods a block away. folks would come up and thank him. business owners thanking him. you have to wonder what would have happened had they tapped captain johnson four or five days sooner. >> so true. moral authority is a great thing. thank you very much for reporting on it. last night on "all in with chris hayes" jay nixon discussed appointing a special prosecutor to take over for bob mcculloch who has taken heat from local leaders and activists due to his family ties with the police out there. here is governor nixon giving his verdict.

>> we have a local elected prosecutor. no, i won't take him off the case. >> you're saying it now. you are not going to appoint a special prosecutor. >> no, i'm not. plus, in this situation you have the secondary advantage of having attorney general of the united states and the justice department doing a parallel, dual investigation. significant amount of public attention that's going on. if we trust all the processes my sense is the public is going to get what they need which is transparency and justice. >> joining us now for more on ferguson is msnbc political analyst and former philadelphia mayor ed rendell. you have had all the positions. what's your view of the way the case is being handled? is it adequate for the community out there? we don't know how they are feeling day to day. is it adequate to them to know you are getting dual investigations here -- one locally from elected officials and one from washington. is it adequate?

>> it is. in one sense. i think the people of ferguson have confidence in eric holder and the fbi and their impartiality. they will give a fair investigation. but they can't lodge murder charges against the policeman. the only thing they can prosecute is violation of the civil rights act. although that carries a significant punishment it's not exactly the same. usually in these cases the federal investigation is a backstop that waits until the local state investigation is completed and finished. i have no doubt that mr. mcculloch is a good prosecutor. he was head of the d.a. association, the national d.a. association. but there is an inherent problem for him. not just because he has a bloer, uncle, cousin. more importantly, it's almost

eerie. his father was shot by a felon who grabbed a gun out of the police officer's hollister and used it to shoot his father who was a policeman. there are allegations that mr. brown was trying to get the gun from the officer's possession here in this case. it's similar and that creates a strong appearance of im ppropriy or a potential conflict. even if the evidence dictates and the problem with a grand jury, chris, as you know, the evidence is closed. the evidence is not made available oh to the public. the testimony is not in the cross-examination -- there is no cross-examination of witnesses. so there are real problems. i think it would be better for him to recuse himself not because he didn't believe he would be fair, but because whatever he does, it won't have the appearance of impartiality. >> here's one concern on this. i won't get into the thing.

if you bring in another prosecutor, doesn't that man or woman who comes in have a mission to prosecute? i have never heard of a special prosecutor not prosecuting. they don't walk away from a case and say there is not a crime there. seems they are dedicated from the outset to indict. >> you're thinking mostly of corruption cases. the law of justifiable homicide whether it involves a homicide is clear. if the police officer had a reasonable belief his life could be in danger or he could be in danger of having severe bodily injury occur he has the right to use deadly force. that's clear. i believe had i or any other prosecutor been tapped we would take our responsibility very seriously. i don't think a special prosecutor would indict just for the sake of oh indicting. it is easier in some ways for a special prosecutor to clear the policeman and say it was justifiable. he won't be around in the community. he'll go back to kansas or

little rock, arkansas, or wherever he's from. >> suppose you have two or three witnesses who say the victim had his hands in the air. he was basically, you know, giving up to the police, doing what you do in any movie. put your hands in the air, nobody shoots you. the other people say i didn't see his hands in the air. i saw him lunging at the policehan. you have physical damage to the policeman's face. the other other officer, i assume will back him up. what do you do when there is downright conflicting evidence? is it reasonable doubt or probable cause? some people say it happened in a way that criminalizes the defendant. >> the grand jury should try to assess the evidence. the factual and testimonial evidence is clear, one way or the other it's an easy decision for the grand jury. if there are conflicts and it appears there are significant

conflicts about what happened in the police car, about what happened when mr. brown ran away, when he turned around. all sorts of conflicting testimony from witnesses. if there is no physical evidence that shows one account is true and one is not true for example if a bullet struck mr. brown in the back. that would be clear physical evidence that would indicate the officer used deadly force at a time his life wasn't threatened. absent that physical evidence, the grand jury should indict and send it to trial where a jury using the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt would be the final ash tor. >> people are making judgments before the evidence is put together. it's a community issue. >> it puts mr. mcculloch in a terrible spot. he almost has to fight leaning

over backwards to indict the policeman to prove he's fair. that's a potential conflict, too. >> if you were the defendant would you like a special prosecutor or the local guy? >> local guy. >> okay. no ifs ands or buts about it. >> i love the candor. up next, paul ryan wants to bring back the good old days of being on the campaign trail with mr. excitement, mitt romney. this is "hardball," the place for politics. vo: this is the summer.

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gave a big endorsement to the idea of mitt romney running for president in 2016 saying that he'd even drive romney's campaign bus. he said, i'll drive the bus. this also caught people's eye. ryan wrote on his facebook page the packers look so good i would drive their bus. we know he's a packers fan. then on the partridge family page, hey, are you still a thing? if not, i guess the bus ain't being used. let me take it for a spin. i don't know. [ applause ] finally this . scooby-doo, did you guys have a van or a bus? van? close enough. let's call it a bus. me drive y-drivey. >> he managed to help out romney with another challenge. watch this. >> i offer my thanks to meg whitman, rob portman and kraton

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here's what's happening. israel says hamas fired a mortar killing a 4-year-old israeli boy living near the gaza border. 68 israelis have died since the fighting began. heavy rains triggered flooding in illinois and indiana shutting down interstates and forcing schools to close. federal reserve chair janet yellen said the economy is improving but more indicators are needed before raising interest rates. back to "hardball." today the entire world is appalled by the brutal murder of jim foley by the terrorist group isil. jim was a journalist, a son, a brother, and a friend. all of us feel the ache of his

absence. all of us mourn his loss. we will do everything we can to protect our people. >> we are back. that was president obama, of course, taking time from his vacation in martha's vineyard to talk about the heart break over the execution of journalist james foley by the islamic terrorist group isil. after leaving, the president's motorcade drove to the vineyard golf course. as "new york times" reporter peter baker illustrates as soon as the cameras went off mr. obama headed to his favorite golf course on martha's vineyard where he was on vacation, seemingly able to put the savagery out of his mind instantly. he spent the afternoon on the links even as a fire storm of criticism erupted over what many saw as a callous indifference to the slaughter he had just condemned. it was 32 minutes after delivering a sobering statement on world affairs reminded me of george bush. let's watch this incident. >> we must stop the terror.

i call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop the terrorist killers. thank you. now watch this drive. >> i don't know what to say about that. i don't know what to say about that. for obama, the next day's front page new york daily news cover was unforgiving. it showed him laughing from a golf course as james foley's parents cry at the bottom. the headline read bam's golf war. inside was another picture of the president fist bumping his golf partners on the green. the headline, whole lot of nerve -- hole lot of nerve. some democrats didn't like it. jim manley told the "new york times" in this instance i think a lot of democrats flinched a little bit. it was so shocking that he was immediately going to run to the golf course was just a little bit too much for folks. it was tone deaf. joe watt kins is a republican

strategist. i don't know what you will say. joe, i will start with you. compare it to w.'s horse's ass behavior. i would call it intentionally making a joke in a situation. here the president of the united states talking with grief and real passion. we're going to get those sons of bitches. and 30 seconds later he's yucking it up. which is the real obama? the guy who's having a good time or the guy who's mad? it's your podium. >> i think the president can multi task. i think he can speak sincerely and from the heart about the savagery that took place in the middle east with the killing of mr. foley. and at the same time i think he has the capacity to enjoy himself, to spend time as every president has done in recent memory. >> within a half hour. >> he deserves the opportunity

to relax. even being on the golf course is work for the president. he may be laughing but business is being transacted. the apparatus of the president travels with the president. >> i know that. he also learned the game of golf as president. have you learned games this your latest jobs, joe? picked up any sports? i like the guy but that picture is a problem. >> doesn't mean he's a good golfer. i picked up golf working in the senate. i still golf but i'm not good. he picked up the game as president. i don't know what his handicap is. at least you can believe the score. what about clinton? the numbers are within ten? he had a mulligan a minute. just a thought. not important. what do you think, steve? >> i agree with everything joe said. >> if you were standing behind the president would you say, i know you like alonso morning and this is your chance to play golf, not today. you can't have grief with the

family and pray and say we'll get even for what happened and a half hour later be in a golf cart having the time of your life. >> a picture is worth a thousand words. what's frustrating for democrats and i'm not one of them, but i talked to them. it's an unforced error. the white house political team should have seen it come. >> could they have stopped him from doing what he wanted to do oh? >> he's the president and can do what he wants to do. they should have talked about the optics of it. >> generally it's great. i love to see him having a good time. it's the half hour difference. >> the difference between the republicans and the machine is being critical of the president now. the difference between going into an election with the 46 approval rating and a 36 approval rating. >> is he going down to 36? >> in the states that are competitive his numbers aren't good. >> you're talking about the polling. >> people like james shaheen and races that shouldn't be in play come into play if the president

is the subject of ridicule. i'm not suggesting this will last. it's august. it's a tempest in a teapot. >> when people vote do they look at the names or say, am i in a mood and do i like or dislike the president in my vote. >> in an off here, the president's approval rating is important in terms of how the party fares. you see it historically, not just this year. if i were political advisers i would be mindful of that. the president doesn't really care what folks think. that's fine. but there are a lot of democrats whose races will be impacted by the difference between a 46 and a 36. >> let's try the nonpartisan from your side, the republican side. do you think republican candidates say, that will help me in arkansas. i have a shot now. i have a shot in louisiana now because the president looks like he's having too much fun in this job. >> it's a one or two-day story the. >> do you think? >> it will have life for a couple of days. >> they won't bring it back in

the ads? >> at the end of the day politics are local. what matters in critical states for democrats and republicans is what the candidates have to say. republicans have a great chance in the midterm election cycle to retain the house. >> why is that? >> joe, you don't want this to be a national election. you want a national sweep. who are you kidding? you ev you're quoting tim o'neal. >> i know the president's approval rate -- everything you and steve said is correct. the approval rating doesn't help candida candidates. >> we agree it was a terrible thing to do. i think joe was right. you're all right. it's probably one or the other. if you hate obama this is an excuse to hate him more. if you like him you will defend him. thank you. the defense team for former governor bob mcdonnell is airing his marital problems.

usually people keep this stuff to themselves. apparently under the belief it's his best shot of keeping him and his wife out of jail. is the jury buying that she's so unhappy she does stuff to get him sbro trouble? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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if energy could come from anything?. or if power could go anywhere? or if light could seek out the dark? what would happen if that happens? anything. i'm blessed with five really amazing kids. i talked to all five of them last night. they do give me a lot of strength, my children. i'm really proud that despite the hardships my wife and i are going through, they have lived their lives.

>> welcome back to "hardball." it's day 20 of the mcdonnell corruption trial in richmond. a third day of testimony for the former governor himself. his time on the stand can be only described as brutal. here's the front page brutal. front page of the "washington post." mcdonnell depicts a sinking marriage. no detail of the marriage was spared. a wrenching e-mail from the governor to his wife in which he pours out his heart in an effort to save his marriage was entered into evidence. mcdonnell described being spiritually and mentally exhausted by being yelled at by his wife and in perhaps the final knife twist, mcdonnell testified, he said the rolex watch his wife gave him with money supplied by businessmen at the heart of this case was gaudy. he said, it was big, it was gaudy, it was not my kind of watch. wow. the biggest takeaway from today's testimony was that the former governor did not think it was wrong to take money from businessman jonnie williams. mcdonnell testified williams, quote, never asked me for anything, only to call his father on his 80th birthday. joining me right now, senior

editor at msnbc.com, beth, and the "washington post" robert mccartney who was in the courtroom today. beth, hold on to your thoughts until i get to robert mccartney. just drove up here from richmond. >> i did. >> an hour and a half from here. what was it like sitting in the room watching these two married couples, longtime married couple with the one guy, the one spouse, has to destroy the other spouse so they both can walk out of this courtroom free? >> it was chilling because they really interact very little in the courtroom. they sort of walk by each other at the beginning and the end, and he's up there on the stand, very poised, very cool, just relating all these terrible things about his wife. i mean, he said that she deceived him about things, he said she lied about things, he said she yelled at him, she showed hate toward him. and she just sits there and sort of stares ahead, looks at him, looks at the judge, doesn't really react very much. >> well, this isn't divorce

court. >> no. >> yet, it begins to sound like divorce court on tv. beth, it seems to me, i'm pro-politician, clearly i am, but i kept thinking what was the damage to the state, the harm, the foul that hurt the state here? in all this hanky-panky and craziness and unhappiness, did anything go wrong that hurt the state or any citizen of it? were tax laws changed, regulatory laws changed, was anything stolen? was anything really except giving a guy a low number license plate or let him come sleep in the lincoln bedroom. you give me something, i give you something. where is the evil here? the true evil? i just -- i'm waiting for it. besides the marital wreckage here. >> well, you know, chris, that's something that the jury is going to have to decide, and i think, you know, despite this kind of tawdry affair that we're seeing rolling out there in that courtroom, it's very likely that the governor will be acquitted. i mean, it does seem like the state was not hurt. there were no national secrets compromised, what have you. plus, virginia as we know is a very loose set of rules around

what kind of gifts a politician can take. so, the jury -- >> are there any? >> there's really none. >> not many rules. >> the jury may let him off. what i will say is what was hurt is the dignity of the office. that sounds very old-fashioned, what have you, but he was willing to sort of just hang out with this rather shady businessman, and fly around with him and ride in his ferrari and wear his big, gaudy watch, for what? it seems like it was a very cheap sort of trade of his office to live a slightly better life, and to then roll it all out there in the courtroom, whether he's convicted or not, he stills look very unseemly. >> what about motel 6 and the clint administration, beth, where night after night, some fat cat got to sleep in the lincoln bedroom, as part of a fund-raising effort? >> sure, that's a thing -- >> it wasn't illegal, clearly, but was that seemly? >> no, that's the problem. politicians seem to be doing this over and over and over again. they don't -- they don't respect the office that they're in on some fundamental way, and they trade it away and that's why we see so much cynicism about

politics. one of the many reasons. >> that's really true. i like the way you said that. robert? when you're -- the only thing is we wouldn't have known about all this unseemliness unless they hadn't gone to trial, now we all know about it. unseemliness is the problem, the trial is create it. i didn't know we had this marital problem. >> no, the prosecutors and my colleague, ross haulderman basically uncovered this. it saall started with the chef. she treated the chef so badly in the mansion, the executive mansion, the wife, that he got annoyed and there was a big legal fight over him, and basically to save his own skin, he's, you know, stuff started coming out about her and about them. >> i have to tell you, i agree with everything beth said, but during the time before this happened, this trial, my wife, kathleen and i, she was on the mt. vernon board down there, and we went down there and mcdonnell gave a nice speech about history. his wife was there looking very pleasant and normal and everything seemed fine.

until this cracker barrel opened up and all of a sudden we're watching bug life under the rock. all right, thank you, beth, as always, you're a great guest, beth fouhy, and robert mccartney. thanks for covering this thing. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. fraud protection. get it at discover.com so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are24/7branches? it's just i'm a little reluctant to try new things. what's wrong with trying new things? feel that in your muscles?

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he me end tonight with the pair of good things to come out of this week. both tell the same story, if you care, if you really do, show it. i think it's great that pope francis got on the phone this week with the parents of james foley. it's a catholic family.

james had fwogone to marquette university. they're the people i grew up with, at church every week, raised their children with all the right values and james' case, extra dose of caring about the world's less fortunate and extra dose of courage to get out there and tell their story. quote, jim was proud to be a journalist, his mother diane said. he had deep courage and always cared about people who were suffering. as for the guts and faith and personal constitution it took to face up to that horror, he knew full well was facing him in the desert, his father said this, "i'm sure he didn't shrink from the situation." that's what i saw. what we all saw. the sheer human courage of james foley as he faced his martyrdom. kimm killed for his religion and country. "he understood jim's heart" diane foley said after the long and intense conversation with the pope. good and love and all that's free in the world must be together to fight the evil and the hatred. meanwhile out in ferguson, missouri, the show me state, eric holder was meeting with the

parents of michael brown. that was the other good thing this week. if you care, you really care, you show it. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from ferguson, missouri, i'm craig melvin in for chris hayes. today after almost two weeks we timely g lfinally got a look at ferguson police department's incident report of the shooting of michael brown by officer darren wilson. you may notice something a little strange about the report. take a look there. it's almost completely blank. that's because as nbc news reported last night, they turned the case over to the st. louis county police almost immediately. the county released a similarly blank incident report earlier this week, and we're told that's because documents related to the case will not be made public until the grand jury investigating the officer-involved shooting finishes its investigation. that could be m-o