there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. another government shutdown? vrnlths good morning and thanks forgetting up with us this sunday morning. the headline at this hour. more than 50,000 people in the san francisco bay area will be starting their day without power, this in the wake of a preliminary magnitude 6.0 earthquake this morning. it was centered six miles outside napa. the "los angeles times" says reports are starting to come in of gas leaks and some fires in napa. we will keep you updated with more information as we get it this morning. but first, we'll begin by taking

a short trip in the time machine, back to what this country looked like ten short months ago. >> the government shutdown, furloughing thousands, closing parks and gutting agencies designed to keep us safe. >> 97% of nasa is on furlough. >> food safety and nuclear inspections have been suspended. >> shuttering of national parks has locked out hikers and park goers. >> museums closed for business and hundreds of thousands of non-essential government employees are furloughed indefinitely. >> the families of our fallen soldiers now being told there's no money to bury those who died fighting for our flag. if it seems like that couldn't happen all over again so soon, a senate minority leader appears to have other ideas, or at least a very smort memory, what could be a $100 million campaign for re-election, kentucky republican mitch mcconnell says he will do what it takes to oppose president obama next year, even

if that means shutting down the federal government again. in an interview with politico on his campaign bus this week, mcconnell said he will make the president reign in his policies. we'll pass spending bills that will have a lot of restrictions on the activities of the bureaucracy. that's something he won't like, but that will be done, i guarantee it. that's mcconnell talking about what life would be like with a republican house, republican senate and democratic white house. mcconnell said the president needs to be challenged, and the best way to do that is through the funding process. so those two weeks in october of 2013 when republicans got the blame and supposedly learned their lesson, we might be seeing a repeat again soon. we might be seeing it often, in fact. this time it won't be texas senator ted cruz leading a band of tea party rebels in the basement of a mexican restaurant, it will be a republican leader of the senate. the issue won't be

implementation of defunding of obamacare, it will be over every item, large and small, that mitch mcconnell deems necessary to, quote, reign in president pom obama's policies. most of the capital reacted with indignation. democrats rejoiced about the member of republican party dealing in extremism. quote, for the sake of our economy, this republican congress needs to take shutdowns off the table once and for all. meanwhile, republicans distanced themselves from the shutdown agenda. conservative activist grover norquist tweeted, if you threaten to shut down the government over x, the press will focus on the shutdown and no one will hear about x. we did this before. they have done this before. the results were disastrous as "washington post" greg sergeant reminded us this week, those with an unfavorable opinion of the republican party rose to an all-time high during that month of the shutdown last year.

again, if republicans pick up enough seats to win the senate this fall, maybe they would conclude that the shutdown hadn't been that disastrous for them after all. what's mcconnell's motive in bringing this up right now? is it to rally the conservative base in kentucky where he's facing a perilous re-election campaign? is it to motivate conservatives everywhere so republican ks take back the senator shore up his support within the senate gop, to make sure if he does win his own race in kentucky in november, he won't turn around and face a challenge from his right for his leadership post. when politico asked senator cruz if he would back mcconnell, he paused for eight whole seconds saying, quote, that will be a decision for the conference to make. whatever mcconnell's exact motive, there's the risk of a backlash. will moderate and independent voters recoil at the new talk of a shutdown hurting the gop this fall? maybe more importantly there's this, will raising the hopes of the conservative base now,

another dramatic shutdown with obama, will that cascade in the months ahead into the pressure republican leaders will be powerless to fight next year? in other words, is mcconnell tieing his own hands here? here to discuss that with us is sigh hoke pour for "talking points memo," jane new ton small and beth few' from msnbc.com. this mcconnell comment, this is what the world will look like, if you keep the senate, keep the house and get two years of confrontation with president obama. i guess the first question is just figuring out what his agenda is in bringing this up. the three that jump to mind, re-election campaign, republicans everywhere, and trying to retain the leadership position after november. anyone have a good guess there what it is? >> i this norquist was right, when you utter the word

shutdown, bring up the prospect of shutting down the government, you don't hear about x. x here was about coal, the tough new coal standards. that's the message he was trying to get out with ken tuckians. he's looking at his re-election, looking at trying to gain popularity in a state where he's really not that popular right now. he's not looking nationally at the party, he's look willing nationally. >> mcconnell is obviously a strategic guy. as we saw in that ted cruz quote, he's got to be worrying about multiple things. if he doesn't win re-election, ball game, it's all over. if he wins re-election, it took ted cruz to say something basically neutral. >> this is a lot of three-dimensional chess we're playing. mcconnell may not be re-elected, may not want to run for majority leader. there's a whole lot of variables going on. i agree with jay.

this is a very short-term ball he's playing which is odd. he's in a very tough re-election. one of his biggest problems is a lot of republicans in kentucky think he's totally sold out. that's why he had a tea party challenger in his primary. he dispatched with that guy. >> still 35% against him. >> there's real unhappiness with mitch mcconnell that he's a total tool of washington, in with lobbyist, he doesn't care about the folks back home. he's got to play this hard. he's in trouble, the only republican at this point, chances are, who has any chance of losing his seat in 2014. he's got to play to the base. >> there may be a second republican in trouble. we'll talk about that later the show. >> sahil, looking at the shutdown from last fall, it's interesting. when that was playing out, we were looking at those poll numbers, looked like an epic disaster for republicans. i guess you could make the case if republicans turn around and

pick up those six seats and win the senate, they look around and say, hey, that didn't hurt us at all. >> there's no doubt they will say that. he's not a loose cannon, he's very shrewd and calculating. he knows this stuff doesn't fly with the average american voter. the problem is, it plays well with the conservative base. as beth was pointing out, he needs to shore that up back in kentucky where he's not doing well with republicans. his overriding priority is to win the senate and become minority leader. the problem with the comments he's made is once you dangle something like this before the tea party, in front of them, they're not going to take it lying down. when push comes to shove, if he's a majority leader, he's going to have to follow through. you can bet ted cruz will put these comments 234 front of him if he doesn't go that route and doesn't force a confrontation with the president over something like coal and other things republicans want. this is difficult to walk back from. >> this gets to what is the mindset, what is the psychology of the tea party.

i can remember back to the 1990s when republicans had their shutdown dramas with bill clinton. there's this band of republicans who emerge from that. any time younded it, it was going to be too soon. if we had held out from our hour, another day, another week, another month, we would have gotten the conservative dream realized. we talk about what the poll numbers look like from the republican party. is there their reading of the shutdown different? we were this close to victory? >> absolutely. this is a playbook taken from the democrats. this is what harry reid and nancy pelosi did at the end of the bush administration to try to end the iraq war. we tried to put timelines and withdraw of troops, a huge gamble because everyone was, like, that's really unpopular, the prospect of a shutdown. it actually worked because the war was incredibly unpopular and the prospect of a shutdown was so distant, so improbable, no one would ever realize it. the problem now is we've had a

shutdown. we have this group that hankers for a shutdown. every time you raise the prospect of it, they go, yay, they're really excited about it. it takes on a life of its basement of mexican restaurants, it's a completely different -- >> last year it was over obamacare implementation, over health care. let's say republicans were to get the senate. they have the house. they have the senate. is there an issue right now, you look at the conservative base that, hey, this is the thing they want to turn around in next november and pick the fight over. >> immigration. no doubt it will be immigration, especially if the president unveils an executive action which would expand daca, the program that applies to young people. probably would encompass their families. there's a lot of angst over what's happening on the southwest border, a lot of angst

over president obama's agenda generally. >> if he does something, it would be take that off the books, threat of a shutdown. >> it would be roll back what he's already done. if he does something by the end of the summer, it would be roll that back. >> the deferred action. >> let me make a contrary argument. there's no question that legislatively that's what they would want to do, politically moving into the 2016 election, the presidential which is immediately, as soon as 2014 ends, you've got rand paul. you have ted cruz, folks who are going to probably run for president. sure, they want to play to their base and win the primaries. they know this is a complete disaster for any chance of republicans taking the presidency in 2016. and especially to go right for immigration that way just seems completely suicidal. >> it gets to the psychology, if we're talking about december 2014, republicans have won the senate. they're saying, hey, they told us it was a disaster to shutdown

the government. my thanks to you for joining us this morning. coming up, president obama orders a new review in the wake of ferguson. we'll have the details of that plus a look at the administration's overall response. that's next. from the customers, to the staples associates. with guaranteed low prices on comp books. you'll flip out! now go tell your friends. staples, make more happen for less. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning.

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as we mentioned, it was another night of relative calm in ferguson, missouri, no teargas, no shootings, no molotov cocktails, only a handful of arrests. one of the biggest questions to emerge has been the this, how did st. louis police forces as well as departments across the country, how did they come to be equipped with military-style quip nmt the first place and should they have been? last night we learned that president obama has ordered a review of the program that

supplies local police forces, the pentagon's excess property program. spent nearly $500 million last year alone. the president is sending three aides to the funeral tomorrow for michael brown. those are two actions taken by president obama. how are americans feeling about his response overall especially in one key demographic that's helped to propel him to the white house. 60% of african-americans agree with how president obama respond to the ferguson shooth and the aftermath. the number is not as huge as maybe you think it might be when you consider black voters helped to deliver the white house to obama by significantly higher margins. president obama's response to what has been happening in ferguson has been measured. he endorsed the rights of the protests, condemned the looting and violence. there were remarks full of nuance and caution.

that neutrality has prompted so blowback from some of the president's most local demographic. georgetown sociology director michael eric dyson calls the president's remarks, quote, extremely disappointing, elon james white tweeted, i get his role, but if he can't speak directly to this situation, what president will. after the shooting death of trayvon martin he took to the podium saying the man could have been his own son, the kind of personal response people were expecting from the president this time around. they did get it in his administration. president obama sent attorney general eric holder to ferguson instead. holder told ferguson residents, quote, i understand that mistrust. i am the attorney general of the united states but i'm also a black man. holder added an anecdote about something that happened when he was a federal pro can you teller living in washington, d.c.

i think of georgetown, running with my cousin, a police car drives up, flashes his lights, where are you going. hold it, whoa, i'm going to a movie. to talk about the administration' response, we have michael eric dyson from georgetown. we were saving the rest of the thoughts for you to share with us. also beth fouey, senior editor at msnbc.com. michael, i'll start with you. we laid out a little bit of what you said in the opening. you talked about the monkish silence on race that president obama has exited. i'm curious if you can explain more fully your frustration and more generally what you mean by the monkish silence on race. >> we can count the number of times president obama has weighed in. he has brilliantly and wisely protected his racial capital so

when he does speak, it will make a difference. i think he's done too good a job of that. he hasn't intervened in a fashion that allows him to take full advantage of the range of experiences, talents and gifts he uniquely possesses of any president of the united states of america in history to speak to the greatest problem that we've confronted as a nation, and this is the issue of race. his personal discomfort with the issue plus the fact that when he speaks about it, true enough, he takes a dive in poll numbers, but when he speaks about iraq, the same thing. when he talks about issues of the environment, same thing. when he talks about gay marriage even among african-american people, the same thing. he's going to take a hit regardless. with two years left, it's time to step up i think and represent the full range of gifts he has and to speak more seriously and in a more sustained fashion to this issue of race. >> in this particular case, what saturday you'd like to hear him say that he hasn't said?

>> first of all, the tone of empathy, to come out and first of all underscore that we've got to keep the law and order and the peace, i get that, and make those the major predicates for what we see going on. by the way, also, citizens should be protected and have a right to peaceful protests without acknowledging the vicious history of assault upon african-american and latino people in this country by the state. police repression, police aggression, police execution, if you will, of african-american men and women, the degree to which black people have been vulnerable, to rebuff in the criminal justice system and the degree to which the criminal justice system has worked vigorously against the interest of african-american and latino people, in other words, to show he understands that issue and don't recriminalize young black people the way he did in his second set of ferguson remarks when he talked about the fact that some young black men commit crime and they should be punished. how tone deaf is that while in

the midst of a riot ous or rebellious uprising, because of the fact that black people haven't had access to equal jaws tis under the law, to further criminalize them i think is an ill considered statement. >> beth, that's the criticism. michael is not alone in making some of those critiques to the administration. from the administration's perspective, what is the reasoning, what is the thinking behind the approach the president has taken here? >> it seems really regrettable. the first black president is so hamstrung about speaking on these issues. >> he has spoken before. in his defining speech in 2008 was on race. >> that was during the democratic primary where he still needed to win that race with hillary rodham clinton. he was speaking primarily to democratic voters at this point. now he has to speak to the country. he's a very polarizing president, especially among many

white voters. we have to get through 2014. the states where senate races matter are in states that have white working class population that have never, ever warmed to this president. talking kentucky where a democrat could win, knock off mitch mcconnell. talking louisiana, north carolina. these are places where white working class folks who are democrats need to come out. these senate races cannot just be won on the strength of the black vote. >> the idea is if he weighs in aggressively on this issue, it potentially stirs up some backlash -- >> it could jeopardize democratic senators in those places and result in a peculiar senate which would be a disaster for many black voters. >> michael, let me ask you about that. it's not just about obama's poll numbers, but specifically about democrats holding on to the senate. in light of that concern and the fact the administration sent -- the attorney general from any administration rarely goes to the scene of anything like this. the administration sent eric holder in there clearly in terms

of its actual power through the justice department, is taking this very seriously. is that not a balance to be comfortable with? >> i think eric hold ser leading and obama is following. why isn't every cabinet member tasked with the demand of the president to figure out a way to engage issues of race in housing and urban development and the like. let's not make eric holder a puppet of barack obama or at least a shadow. he is, of course, representative of that administration. he represents his own views, his own understanding of what's going on there. he makes comments that i think are far closer to what we're aiming for here than the president has. number two, look, if the price of admission for me into the party is to suppress my own identity and my interests -- we're asking african-american people look aside because right now your interests cannot be as compelling as the interest of white working class people who will never love obama even within the democratic party.

with two years left in his administration, if not now, when? when will african-american people be able to conscientiously articulate their views without fear it will upset a white person or the fact that the president of the united states of mayor xa who understands how calculated a conversation this is, figures out way not only when the 2014 midterms are at stake, but even long before this and after this. there will never be enough pressure to leverage for the white house to be able to speak out. let's be clear, unless president obama is put into some graceful pressure, he will never speak ouchlt i think african-american people who support him like i have -- i have been a two-term surrogate of president obama. i have spoken mostly in advocacy of his policies and strong defense of his presidency. but i think the price of my support cannot be supp pregs of my voice or the blunting of my consciousness as i tell the truth about issues of race in america. i wish he did, he's got a far

bigger pulpit. >> my thanks to michael eric dyson and beth fouey, appreciate you joining us as well. an update from northern california. we're getting our first video of the 6.2 magnitude earthquake that hit six miles outside of napa. tremors were felt as far south as santa cruz, as far north as sacramento. u.s. geological area since it's the biggest to hit since the 1979 san francisco earthquake. this morning there are reports of structural damage coming in. no reported injuries at this time. more details as they come in. we'll be right back. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it.

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former top aide to president obama has taken a new job that's generating a little controversy. on tuesday we learned obama's 2008 campaign manager, former white house aide david plouffe is going to work for the silicon valley car service uber, the company which connects users and drivers through a cell phone app is sparring with the taxi industry and the strong unions. democrats traditionally support unions and don't usually go after unions. here is how head of uber described the struggle. >> we're in this political campaign and the candidate is uber and the opponent is [ bleep ] taxi. >> plouffe's new job follows two more obama staffers who picked fights with organized labor, robert gibbs and ben la bolt recently signed on trying to cut teacher's tenure.

ricky weingarten, the president of the american federation of teenagers said gibbs and la bolt are working for clients trying to undermine public education by pitting teachers against students, subscribing to a theory that to help kids, you have to hurt teachers. there's obama's 2012 campaign manager now leading british prime minister david cameron in the uk. buzzfeed reports cameron's party is campaigning on a platform including new rules for english labor that would make it close to impossible for workers to go on strike. he responded, quote, i am not taking on unions. messina is facing his old colleague david axelrod leading up the campaign for britain's labor party, a striking divide with the democratic party playing out overseas. what do these riffs mean pour the future of the the democratic party? does it mean democrats are shifting away from staunch support for organized labor.

joining me is roger hickey co-direct tower of the campaign for america's future and jim kessler, vice president of third way. roger, i'll start with you. there does seem to be a pattern. when you're looking at the people very close politically to president obama taking these positions with ventures that are at this point have an acrimonious relationship with organized labor, what does this say to you about a schism within the democratic party? >> let me put this in context. most activists i know are working on conveying an economic populous message to the voters for 2014. for example, the enemy is the republicans, it's paul ryan who has a new book out and everywhere he goes, activists are out there with picket signs asking about his austerity budgets, his plans to cut social security and medicare. that's the real focus of most

democrats. ? a sense, the career plans of these former obama people are a distraction. they're following, unfortunately the old path of many republican and democratic consultants, and they are good people to have on your side in an election campaign, and i wish they were focused on winning back the house and keeping the senate. instead, they're following the path that the old washington wag described as, they came to washington to do good and they stayed to do well for themselves. they are feathering their own nests right now. >> jim, what does this say to you when you see stories like david plouffe and uber this week? does that say something to you about the nature of the democratic party? >> let me start with jim messina. too much has been made for him working in cameron in england.

the conservative party in great britain is not like the conservative party in the united states. i think cameron is more similar to a lot of democrats in this country. he's not working for the tom delay of great britain. >> it's a little different. there's this historical relationship between the labor party and democratic party. new labor, tony blair, new democratic party, bill clinton. it says something, the party of austerity over there. >> that's true. i'm not saying there aren't some places where the conservative party in britain has some -- resembles in some ways the republican party here. it's no no way -- they're very, very different. you can be a progressive and, you know, you can be for labor or be for cameron. >> sure. socially speaking, culturally speaking much more. we're talking about teachers

unions, uber, taxi unions. >> so, first of all, if you look at plouffe and gibbs and la bolt, i don't think this is a real departure for them. if you look at their role in the democratic party, they weren't disrupters. they found a different way to run campaigns. if they hadn't been disrupters within the political system, barack obama wouldn't be president. i think they're looking at other places like taxis which probably could use some disruption, teaching, same as well, in which they're saying is there a new model we can bring? the situation with teaching is, we're going to need to hire 2 million new teachers in next ten years. right now about half of the teachers come from the bottom third of their graduating class. something is wrong with the teaching profession. we can't pretend everything is going well. i think this is a healthy

debate. i don't mind this is happening within the democratic party. >> let's pick up this issue on teachers and the teacher's union. something does jump out at me and that is that the national education association right now is calling for arne duncan's resignation. this is president obama's education secretary. race to the top obviously is a new of thinking, an initiative from this administration. seeing top aides go off and join the anti tenure movement maybe not entirely inconsistent with what the administration has done on education. >> there's a real debate within the democratic party on education. we have to be on the side of american people who think teachers are part of the solution, not part of the problem. that's the problem with the gibbs approach, the camel ground approach to blaming teachers. the more democrats are associated with this campaign against teachers, against

teachers' unions, they're going to reap a whirlwind. look at chicago where mayor ram emanuel opposed a strike and went after the teachers. he is less popular right now than the head of the teachers union in chicago. this is electoral silliness for the democratic party to be attacking one of its key constituents. and the key people on the front lines of education are teachers. >> roger, where does the impetus for this come from? where does the impetus for everything arne duncan's resignation come from? >> unfortunately there's a lot of money out there. some people who are running privatized school systems, tles ooh a lot of wall street money going into this so-called reform

movement. it's all turning too many democrats in the wrong direction on education. >> i think that's an oversimplification. >> an election year and the democrats have to be on the side of more resources and more power to the teachers, not attacking teachers as a villain. that is a mistake politically and in terms of policy. >> i know jim wants to get in. we'll pick this up in one second and continue the conversation on the other side. first, more information, the latest on the information coming in about this morning's 6.0 earthquake in the san francisco bay area, napa county fire department confirms to the "los angeles times" they are being swamped with calls including injuries. it's unclear how serious the injuries might be because they're still responding to those calls. the pictures are coming to us from nbc affiliate kntv in san jose. we'll update with more information as soon as it becomes available. we'll be right back.

picking our conversation back up, jim, i wanted to pick up on roger's point to ask about how much of this tension and divide in the democratic party, attitudes about uniontion, i wonder how much is driven by silicon valley, such a huge source of campaign cash obviously for democrats these days. silicon valley is the heart of innovation. the idea of innovation is something that democrats like to harness. at the same time, when it comes to unions, silicon valley is not on the same page as the democratic party. >> there's tons of money in politics, especially since citizens united. that has a perverse impact on the debate, on every single debate that's out there. look, i know there's some silicon valley money in the teacher reform movement, but the goal of -- democrats, we should

be supporting teachers. there's a lot of great teachers out there for sure. there's also a lot of teachers out there who are anything but great. a system that you have out there in which it's very, very difficult to support teachers that aren't good. regardless of where the money is coming from, if we can't have a honest conversation about how to get rid of teachers who don't perform, our kids will be in trouble. if our kids are in trouble, they won't survive in the 21st century economy. we have to have this discussion within the democratic party. is there too much money involved? of course. there always is in politics. that's a shame. but this discussion ought to happen. >> i have to end the discussion here. we've got breaking news eating into our time. thank you roger hickey, campaign for america's future, jim hick. a big surprising development

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we can't blame you if you haven't been paying close attention to the senate race in kansas. after all, the last time a democrat won a senate race in kansas it was 1932. to the extent you have been paying attention to this year's race, well, you probably stopped doing so a few weeks ago when long-time republican incumbent pat roberts held off his tea party challenger milton wolf in the gop primary. wolf might have been the kind of erratic far right candidate who could have maybe endangered the seat for the gop. at least that's how the thinking went. roberts is a known commodity. maybe it's time to start paying attention to kansas again. a surprising new poll this week suggests this senate race, the race in deep red kansas could end up as the sleeper race in 2014, the one no one thought would be competitive, but ends up being a dogfight. here is pat roberts' current

approval rating according to a new ppp poll. it's 27%, a poisonous level for an incumbent. his longevity, 34 years in washington is probably hurting him here. a revelation he seems to live in someone else's house on a golf course to maintain his kansas residency isn't helping either. there's also the civil war now raging in the kansas republican party between the tea party right and the more pragmatic traditional party establishment, the civil war that led 100 officials to return on republican governor sam brownbeck to endorse his democratic opponent. that intraparty blood bath may be taking a toll on roberts as well. roberts has two opponents, democrat chad taylor from top pico and independent greg ormond, a businessman who used to be a democrat. in the new poll, roberts is leading with 32% of the vote with taylor at 25 and orman, the

independent at 23. taylor has struggled to raise money so far and attract support from his own party. now there are even some suggesting he drop out of the race to give orman a clear shot at knocking off roberts. taylor is scoffing at that talk. look at this. in a two-way race, the same poll shows roberts, the republican would lose to orman by ten points, 43-33. like i said, this feels like a race you're going to want to keep an eye on. joining me to talk about it is the independent candidate from kansas, greg or man. let's understand where you're coming from here ideologically. six years ago when pat roberts was running for re-election, you were interested in running as a democrat. now you're an independent. >> i'm fiscally responsible and socially tolerant and never felt like i had a perfect home in either party. historically i've tried the republican party, i've tried the democratic party.

i've finally decided if we're going to change things in washington, we've got to attack the two-party system and stop supporting it. >> look at those numbers and it screams out, if this is a one-on-one race, you have a real shot here to knock off pat roberts. if it's a three-way, it's more complicated for you. do you want your democratic opponent to drop out of this race? >> we actually think our message resonates with khan sans from across the political spectrum. we think we can win a three-way race. from our perspective, our job is really just to go out, talk to khan sans, deliver our message to them and make sure that they have the opportunity to make an informed decision in the fall. i think if they have that opportunity, i think they're going to see that they like what they're hearing from our campaign. >> i should note that we reached out to chad taylor and invited him on the program and we extend that invitation for the future as well. greg, if you are successful, the million dollar question everyone will be asking, you're going to have to choose sides in the

senate. do you want to vote to give democrats control of the senator republicans control of the senate. if you are elected, you could have the deciding vote after this fall's election. which side would you vote for? >> i think that's a great point, steve. ultimately, if i get elected there's a reasonable chance that neither party will have a majority in washington. if that's the case, what i've said is i'm going to caucus with whichever party is willing to actually go to washington and start trying to solve problems as opposed to just pleasing the, treatmentists in their own base. >> looking at those two parties right now, do you have a sense which one has done a better job of that? >> frankly, i think both parties have been sending extremists to washington. people are more interested in pleasing the partisans in their own base and really not solving problems. i think both parties are actually guilty of that sort of behavior. really i think in an attempt to make sure they win elections and not solve problems for the american people. >> let's try to nail you down on

a few issues. the affordable care act, everybody talks about it a lot. people say repeal the affordable care act. is that something you agree with? >> i look at this issue a little different. we had a health care affordability issue before the act and we have one today. i run businesses. every year the first question we have to answer before we can decide what kind of raises we can give our employees is how high have health care costs gone? every year they keep going up. i think we have a real issue with health care in this country, and i think the affordable care act has just been a lightning rod for political criticism and for political positioning on both sides. >> but greg, it's the law. so do you want the law to stay on the books and to work to try to improve the law or do you want the law off the books? >> well, as long as the president is in the white house, i think it's impractical to say that the law is going to go off the books. i think what we ultimately need to do is look at the things that are driving health care costs in

this country and try to solve the problem? a real rational common sense way as opposed to positioning for political gain here. >> kansas, your state, sam brownbeck, the republican governor, very conservative, has refused to expand medicaid under the affordable care achblth that's an option the states have. in your state, do you want kansas to expand medicaid? >> i think the message governor brownbeck has sent to the working poor in kansas, if you have a health care crisis, your best solution is to quit your job. i think that's a bad message to e send. we have a real issue in kansas with our critical access facilities that are now underfunded as a result of governor brownbeck's decision. so ultimately i think he's made a poor decision there. >> you would like it expanded. on the question of immigration, this has been the issue, one of the issues that seems to have paralyzed washington. a bill passed the senate, languishing in the house that

would provide a path to citizenship, boost up border security and provide a long-term path to citizenship, somewhere ten to 13 years for undon'ted people who meet certain thresholds and pay certain fines, is that legislation you would support in the senate? >> steve, i think you raised a critical point which is it does boost border security. we've talked about our immigration reform and says it needs to be tough, practical and fair. it needs to boost security but also be practical. we have over 11 million people living in this country, it's impractical to say we're going to send them all phone. in kansas, there are towns like garden city and dodge city that would be absolutely devastated if we made decisions like that. i also think it needs to be fair to taxpayers. what i mean by that is, if you're here on an undocumented basis, you should have to register with i.c.e. you should pay a fine for perform some community service

as an acknowledgment that the law has been broken. if you obey the laws, pay taxes, you should be able to stay here. >> are you voting for sam brownbeck or paul davis for governor? >> i'm not making that decision public. i think your voting behavior is ultimately a private behavior. i'm looking for people who want to go to washington and in this case topeka and solve problems, work in a bipartisan way, understand kansas has a long tradition of bipartisanship. that's what i'm looking for in elected officials. >> my thanks to greg orman in kansas. the latest on the biggest earthquake to hit northern california in 25 years as soon as we come back. . well, that's kid number three. (vo) the co-pilots. all sitting... ...trusting... ...waiting... ...for a safe arrival. introducing the all-new subaru legacy.

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we want to update you on this morning's 6.0 earthquake in the san francisco bay area, six miles outside of napa. photo haves been flooding in this hour showing some of the damage that's been reported including gas leaks, downed

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official campaign. it isn't clear whether walker himself played a role in the actions of his team. his campaign said in a statement he is not a target of the investigation n. the spring a federal judge shut down an investigation into the financing of pro walker efforts in the 2012 wisconsin recall election, although that judge's decision could be reversed by the appeals court. special prosecutor who had been looking into the matter said in june that walker was not a target of the probe at that time that it was shut down. of course, this on going saga provides an uncomfortable backdrop for walker as he seeks re-election this fall, a race that is now emerging on the national political radar. many political observers came into this year believing that democrats had already taken their best shot at walker and they missed. he was elected governor in 2012 back in the republican midterm wave, a conservative governor in a state that is democratic. he stripped union powers and benefits. sparking unpress didn'ted

protests at the capita that made madison the epicenter of the political world in 2011. in the recall election in 2012 with democrats uniting the try to take him out to deliver a message, walker held his seem by a fairly comfortable margin. it seemed reasonable to think scott walker would be in better shape in 2014. if democrats couldn't take him out in that climate, they wouldn't be able to do it now. the latest marquette university law school poll show as statisticals to dushup behind mary burke. mary burke is a former state commerce secretary who spent years before that working for her family's business, her father founded trek bicycle in waterloo and the company has grown to an international brand. walker has attacked burke as a critic of business regulations and fair wages. >> i'm making millions of

dollars, sending jobs overseas that could have been done in wisconsin to countries where women and children might work up to 12 hours a day earning only $2.00 an hour. >> only $2.00 an hour? >> some conservatives admit his attempts to attack burke with criticism, the "wall street journal" said he was channelling barack obama's 2012 campaign against mitt romney. it's difficult to tell if the attacks have gained traction. i want to get more of those issues with mary burke, the democratic nominee for governor of wisconsin. mary, thanks for taking a few minutes this morning. let's start with the big news, big news in wisconsin and nationally weekend. these documents from prosecutors, this investigation sort of in a holding pattern, but these documents from their work coming to light on friday and basically showing prosecutors seem to believe that the governor himself was seeking

out donations for the wisconsin club for growth, helping him fight the recall effort, on his side in the recall effort. again, the prosecutors saying when this investigation was shut down, they were not looking into the governor himself. these documents suggest maybe they're looking at his campaign manager. when you look at all this, do you think that governor walker committed a crime here? >> well, steve, it's great to be with you. if this wasn't illegal, frankly, it should be. across this country and certainly in wisconsin, people are sick of the special interest money in politics, losing faith in elected officials because of things like this. a $700,000 donation from a mining company that had legislation in process that would have allowed it to profit this this registration. if it's not illegal, it should be. i'm running for governor because i'm going to focus on the issues

that matter most to the people in wisconsin. right now our economy is lagging. we're dead last in the midwest in terms of job creation. as a business executive i know we can do better. we have to put people ahead of the special interests. we have to put common sense solutions ahead of the politics. >> let's pick up on that. we played a clip from the attack ad they're using against you, trying to take your business record and turn it against you. the brand trek bicycles, the family business here. i think everybody nationally has probably heard of trek bicycles. one of the points of attack is they're saying, hey, basically every bike trek makes is actually made overseas. i think 98, 99%, something like that. how do you square that with the idea of creating jobs in the united states? >> trek makes more bikes in the united states and in wisconsin than any other bike company in the entire country and in the world.

>> but vast majority are made overseas, isn't that right? >> it's a little like -- unfortunately, so many industries in the u.s. as governor, i want to fight to level the playing field. it's very difficult for manufacturers, wisconsin manufacturers to compete against other countries that have much lower wages, different regulations. so trek is proud to produce more bikes here in the u.s. and wisconsin than any other company. it employs nearly 1,000 people right here in wisconsin, a company started bashar al assad my dad nearly 40 years ago. >> we talk about wisconsin nationally. we show the scenes from 2011. everybody remembers the protests, the recall. everybody remembers that the big issue in wisconsin politics had to do with the power of collective bargaining for public employee unions and also -- this was called act 10, the law scott walker put through in his first year as governor. it restricted the rights to

collectively bargain for public employees and also demanded they contribute more in terms of pension costs and health care costs. i want to look at those two issues, first of all, the increased publications for pension and for health care. that was part of this law, part of this big controversy. if you're elected governor, would you seek to roll back those increased contributions? >> no. i've been very clear from the start. i think it was only fair to ask for contributions to health care and to pensions. but i also endorse the right to collectively bargain. i don't think that stands in the way of making sure we have effective, efficient and accountable government. i know from being at trek that an organization is only as good as its people. i want to make sure that in the public sector, in our schools, in our police departments, fire departments, we're able to attract and keep good people. they need to be able to be paid fair wages. but we also need to make sure people are accountable and that we're accountable not only to

the taxpayers, but the citizens of wisconsin. >> so when you talk about restoring those collective bargaining rights that were lost for public employees of 2011, a lot of people say it might take -- it might take doing something as dramatic as scott walker did in 2011. look what he had to put up with in terms of protest to get his way. if you want to restore those collective bargaining rights, for instance, would you be willing to say you wouldn't sign a budget unless it included the return of those collective bargaining rights? >> no, i'm not going to say that. i need to work with the republican legislature at this point. but the way i have done business my entire life is to find common ground, to make sure that we are moving forward, that we get the best ideas on the tachblt frankly, i don't care if they're democratic or republican ideas. let's go with the ones that are going to work and bring people together to do that work. i'm going to find common ground with the republicans and make

sure we are focused on the issues that matter to working families in wisconsin. that's jobs. our economy is lagging. under scott walker we are dead last in the midwest for job creation. we need someone who actually knows how to create jobs. i started my own business when i was in my 20s. we're 46th in the country in trms of new businesses started. i want to make sure wisconsin's economy is a leader instead of a lager. >> was it a mistake for democrats to try to recall walker in 2012? >> i think it's only part of the democratic process, that people in a state are able to put that to the voters again. if there are issues and if they get enough of that support to do that, and people did thaet get enough signatures to bring those issues and to put governor walker back to the position where he needed to justify his position as governor. >> all right, mary burke, democratic nominee for governor of wisconsin. it is as to-up race. thank you for joining us this

morning. good luck on the campaign trail this fall. we have also extended an i havation to governor walker to join us on a future program. reports coming in of a second earthquake in california this morning, not an aftershock, but another earthquake, this time in soirnth california, a much smaller one west of the los angeles area near san bernardino in big bear city, a 3.0 quake. the northern part of the state, in wine country outside of san francisco, there was a 6.0 earthquake irly this morning. initial reports of injuries at a napa area hospital. the "los angeles times" says the california highway patrol has discovered that a state road is severely cracked. we'll be right back with more. give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company?

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lap this week t same week he also had his mugshot taken. on tuesday he turned him snefl at the travis county courthouse in. it comes from him trying to get a democratic district attorney to resign after being arrested for driving under the influence. prosecuto prosecutors. when she didn't resirngs he vo toed money for her office. perry maintains he did nothing wrong here. >> i remain focused on the work of the people of this state doing the job i was elected to do, and i will not be distracted by these baseless political charges. >> on friday perry went north to new hampshire continuing his campaign for an unannounced

second bid for president. his pac is selling t-shirts with his mugshot on it, wanted for securing the border and defeating democrats. at that event in new hampshire, perry insisted the charges against him are motivated by liberals and partisan politics. >> if you all are not aware, texas is a pretty red state now, but i refer to travis county as the blueberry in the tomato soup if you know what i mean. >> beyond conservatives, many democrats and major news outlets are rejecting the charges against perry. "the new york times" and "washington post" both published editorials dismissing the indictment. when it comes to the texas media, the reaction hasn't been quite as uniform. there are those that say the charges are more serious. for example, the story earlier this week that perry did not pressure two other district attorneys to resign after drunk

driving arrests. republican district attorneys. in a story for the austin american statesman, despite winning in the court of public opinion, perry faces tough challenges in the court of law. he caught up with perry in an elevator as the governor was leave ag national television appearance. >> first of all, how are you? >> how do i look? do i look pretty good? >> you look like you're hanging in there. >> you can give me better than that. >> you believe this whole thing is about partisan politics? why do you say that? what makes you say that? >> let's just look at what alan dershowitz says, what jonathan chatz says, men and women who say it's outrageous, totalitarian. those are democrats saying that. >> did you threaten rosemary let me berg. i clearly told the folks what i was going to do with the funding and i did that.

there wasn't any hiding it. i spoke clearly that i had lost confidence in her after seeing the video. >> when do you plan to go on down there -- thank you very much. >> joining me, we have reporter tony poleski and houston defense attorney brian weiss who represented tom delay against charges from the travis county district attorney's office. hopefully a little clarity here because i know a lot of people say if you look at national meade yarks you get one story, if you talk to the texas media, you get another story. tony, i'll start with you. i know we say one of the perry defenses is this is a political prosecution. what are -- you're down there in texas, covering this as close as

anybody, what are we not seeing nationally, what do we not need to know from a texas perspective that has not bled through the national coverage yet? >> here is the deal. this grand jury met over several months. we don't know what happened behind those closed doors. this prosecutor, this special prosecutor in this case could have a well of evidence that we have not seen or heard about. i think that's one thing that's really getting lost in all of the national discussion, is that this grand jury met in secret behind closed doors. they heard from witnesses in this case. they looked at boxes of evidence. i camped outside the grand jury room and saw boxes of evidence going in and out of that grand jury room, secret, confidential evidence. we don't know what it is. this case could potentially be a lot stronger than anyone thinks it can be based on what we know and what's been in the public so far. >> in terms of what exactly he's

accused of without knowing all the specifics of the evidence, in terms of the accusations here, this rests on, it's not just the use of a veto, it's the threat of a veto. maybe you can explain, it's not that he used the veto to cut out the funding. apparently he's legally protected in using the veto, but threatening the veto is the potential issue? >> that's exactly right. the governor keeps shouting from the rooftops, i have constitutional veto authority. and no one is questioning that. what is under question here is the fact that he preceded that use of his veto by threatening a duly elected district attorney, a democratic district attorney in travis county after her drunk driving arrest, you must resign your office if you want your public integrity unit which investigates stayedwide, $7.5 million, a two-year allotment. she didn't resign, the governor carried out the threat. it's the threat, not the veto itself, that has caused the

governor potential legal problems here. >> brian, this is the part that i'm having trouble with. my understanding is the law in texas, the actual act of rick perry vetoing out funding for this office cannot be coercive. as tony is saying, the threat of a veto is coercive. what is the threat of the veto without an actual veto? how can you separate those two things. they go hand in hand, don't they? >> i think there's an opening on the defense team for you, steve. you're absolutely right. the law in texas is simple. it is not the violation of the coercion of a violent servant if you have the legal authority to make the threat that you ultimately make. what's ironic about this case is that from all places in texas, from the way co-court of appeals, the court where a lot of us think where due process goes to die held in 1990 under facts remarkably similar to the governor's situation, that a

county judge had the authority to threaten to cut the d.a.'s budget if they didn't fire an assistant d.a. at the end of the day, you said it yourself a veto itself is a threat. i think that while -- what went on behind those closed doors is secret, this case may ultimately be weaker. i have a funny feeling that david botsford probably interviewed most if not all the witnesses before they hit the inside of the grand jury room. if there's a proverbial smoking gun, he would not be nearly as san ginn as they are now. >> brian, i have a hard time seeing this as some political plot, this as a political conspiracy. do you think it's a political vendetta? >> i have the utmost respect for seen the senior judge and for mike mccrumb, the special prosecutor. i don't think, again, this is about politics as much as it is

about the sheer inanity of the charges and the process itself. i don't care whether or not these guys were democrats, republicans, conservatives, wigs or tories. this is a runaway trains initiated by the warlords at texans for public justice, the people who think they have a monopoly on wisdom. i'm not suggesting it's burt richardson or mike mcgrum. i'm suggesting when david botsford files a pretrial writ probably as early as tomorrow morning, he's going to make the claim that this indictment has more holes than the eye vacry navy. >> tony, let's fill in more of the context, what you're seeing in texas. there were reports this week also of other district attorneys with duis, dui issues. rick perry did not apparently go after them in this fashion.

that's one of the revelations that came out this week. also hanging overall this has been the talk that it doesn't really because of the dui that rick perry wanted to get rid of this district attorney, it was because maybe she was poking around and her office was poking around in areas making republicans feel uncomfortable. can you fill in some of the details there? >> a couple of things about the republican district attorneys in other counties in texas. the governor didn't have veto authority over any funds in their offices. he did not have the same sort of leverage that he did over rosemarylehmberg. the other thing is that the drunk driving arrest happened in austin. she is, of course, based here. her office is just a couple of blocks from the governor's mansion. so it was out there for the world to see. it was an ugly, ugly scene that many people on both sides of the political aisle were talking about in the hours and days immediately after her arrest. as to the other issue, democrats

have suggested that the governor could have potentially been trying to intercept an investigation that lehmberg's office was doing into a cancer research institute in texas. it was one of the governor's hallmarks. there was an active investigation going on at the time the governor vetoed those funds. that investigation did lead to the indictment of a former official. governor perry's attorneys came out during the course of the week and said they have an affidavit from a former chief investigator who was leading that inquiry who said, listen, governor perry was never a target of this investigation and so, you know, they attempted essentially to pour cold water over that theory that the democrats have put forward. >> in terms of -- there's a connection there in the court of public opinion that democrats have made. in terms of evidence introduced in that, is that where it's been

we don't know what the grand jury have seen, or is there anything out in the public square that we know about that makes that connection, evidence-wise? >> there is nothing in the public domain that absolutely makes that connection. yes dealing with political and legal theories right now, but nothing beyond that that any of us have been able to take down. >> we'll squeeze a quick break in here. i want brian to weigh in on this other piece of it, the other new stuff this week. we'll take a break and talk about the political fallout, tony knows something about that, too. we'll talk about that when we come back. and dedicated support, free you to focus on what matters. centurylink. your link to what's next. who's more excited about back to school savthe ladies?ples? these guys? or these guys? when you get guaranteed low prices on everything you buy the most, everybody gets excited! staples. make more happen for less.

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the "san francisco chronicle" reports the water main break is hampering efforts to fight fires. also reports of numerous injuries according to emergency officials. it's unclear how extensive the injuries are. so far the local hospital says it's been treating people from cuts from glass. turning from that back to rick perry, brian, i'll go to you. we were hearing tony explain this other piece of it. this is what i'm wondering about from a legal standpoint. tony is talking about this cancer center, this cancer institute and there's an affidavit apparently that says rick perry is not the target, was not the target of any of the district attorney's investigations into that. even if rick perry himself is not the target, who knows, political allies could be. this could be a politically problematic investigation for rick perry. when that's introduced, does that raise more of a legal issue here if you're vetoing out funding because there's an investigation involving people

you have political ties to? >> if you do, sure. in this case the investigator who has made it clear, that wasn't the case. that becomes the ultimate red herring. steve, i think the governor's problem all along wasn't with any other elected district attorney in any of the counties in this great state that may have had a dwi or dui. his concern was a district attorney who had her finger on a multimillion dollar budget that had the ability to investigate, prosecute and imprison any public official anywhere in texas. at the end of the day, when that politician herself has hanled hand bell lector and nick nolte with her conduct, i he did what we expected him to do, to remove that finger from that investigative trigger. i think as early as tomorrow, we are going to see a full-bore challenge to the indictment and a pretrial writ followed by the

governor's lead counsel. >> ultimately that's the problem for democrats. i think ultimately politically they can argue that rick perry had an ulterior motive here. their fellow party member gave them an incredible opening here if they had an ulterior motive. in terms of how it is playing out in texas, what is the reaction in texas to this? i don't know if there's been any polling yet. are people mostly behind rick perry, more concerned nationally? >> i can tell you here in travis county there are people who absolutely feel ag grieved, whether or not it was illegal or not, there are people who definitely feel aggrieved by the governor's veto. travis county officials had to look under the couch cushions to fund it after the governor was vetoed. some people lost their jobs, others were reassigned. it really did cause a problem for the government and for those

people, for the local government here in travis county. there are a number of people who are watching the governor in new hampshi hampshire, shaping the narrative about this whole thing. at least for texas democrats and travis county democrats, while they are trying to match what some of what they are saying, at the same time, their position is, listen werks will see you in court, governor perry, have fun with your pr blitz. >> that's where the story will be on hold for now. we'll be following it. thank you for joining us this morning. appreciate that. still ahead, will what happens in vegas stay in vegas, or will it decide the future of the united states senate we'll travel to sin city in an effort to find out. that's next. danger! price tag alert! oh. hey, guys. price tag alert!

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leader harry reid from defeat in the republican wave of 2010. that name was sharon engel. new numbers show once again he's not in an enviable position. this time republican haves a popular governor, brian sandoval waiting in the wings to possibly run against him. we learned this week the biggest muscle in republican politics, the koch brothers, their vast political machine is already gearing up to take reid down. politico reports that koch affiliated non-profits are expanding in nevada and going on tv to bash the six-term incumbent. reid rallied against the kochs in more than 20 floor speeches. now they're returning the favor. >> senator harry reid supports new rules at the irs that unfairly targets non-profits. the civil libber teas union says it threatens to sterilize political discourse in america. why does senator reid support

it? because he hopes to limit the first amendments rights of citizens who disagree with him. >> reid commented last week. >> when i was walking in here today, someone grabbed me from one of the washington publications and said the koch brothers say they're here organizing in nevada. how do you feel about that? i said why would they be worried about me? what i have done to bother them? only everything i can, right. the koch brothers, these two wealthy men, they're in it for one thing, themselves. >> signs point to reid facing an all out onslaught going into 2016, will that discourage the 74-year-old senate veteran from running again. might it change as he serves ous his term as senate majority leader. joining me from las vegas is the nation's top leadologist, the

sage of all things, john ralston from ralston reports joins us and got up early to do this. we appreciate you taking a few minutes this morning. harry reid, 2010, he walks in and says there's no way this guy can survive. he gets re-elected. gets six more years. here we are in 2014, two years out, is he in better position than he was in nevada, worse or about the same position? >> i'd say he's probably in worse, steve. his numbers are pretty bad. most polls i've seen show his disapproval rating over 50%. let's face it, sharon engel is a once-in-a-lifetime mere ak for someone like harry reid, no one like that out there. you mentioned brian sandoval. i frankly don't think the governor is going to run. although he'll get a lot of pressure this time. he's up but has no opposition. he'll get 65, 70% of the vote. then you go down and joe heck who is a congressman, should he win?

he's probably the second choice. i don't think he's sbefrted in running. you a similar situation in the sense that there's no obvious candidate against harry reid. and what harry reid will do is not run on his record, he'll run against his opponent point. he'll try to choose his opponent as he did in 2010. i think he's planning on running. >> this has been ten years, hard to believe it's been ten years he's been the top democrat in new york. what makes you think he's running again? he'll be well into his 70s? >> he is 74 as you mentioned. i thought that was kind of an infant in the u.s. senate. nevertheless, i do think he has nothing else to do, steve. hees not the kind of guy who wants to become a lobbyist, not the kind of guy who wants to go to his house, put his feet up on his ottoman and watch baseball. that's not harry reid. he loves the minutia of the

legislative process. however, he has had some health problems. he had a mini stroke about eight or nine years ago. his wife has had a lot of health problems. they moved closer to their grandchildren and kids which leads some people to believe he might not run. i know harry reid well enough, even if he decided not to run, nobody would know. he would wait until the last possible moment because he wouldn't make himself a lame duck. he knows chuck shuker is right behind him, maybe with his knife coming out of the sheath should something happen in november. i think he's running. unlike some people, i wouldn't bet everything i have on him. >> sandoval, the popular republican governor, you're saying you don't think he's going to run in 2016. that will break the hearts of some republicans. why are you saying you don't think he'll run? >> sandoval loves being governor as much as anyone i have known

in the governor's seat, steve. he add doors every part of the position. he has essentially told people he's not interested in being a u.s. senator. he's much more interested, if he's not going to be governor in going back to the federal bench. he used to be a federal judge. there's something else, too. i think he might wait until the outcome of the 2016' lurks and perhaps think about a cabinet appointment. this is one of those weird historical anomalies, nv 2346 has never had a member of the cabinet in a democratic or republican registration. sandoval knows about that, thinking about that. he would be a likely short lister for interior or other cabinet post in either a republican or democratic administration. having said all that, steve, as i said, once the election is over, the amount of pressure that will come down on sandoval, he would be an early heavy favorite against reid. there's one poll that's come out that showed him ten points

ahead. i think that's generous to reid. i don't count reid out. i think the pressure on sandoval from the national republicans as their person to take out reid is going to be difficult for him to resist. by the way, i think he will resist it. it's going to be interesting to see. >> brian sandoval served on the bench in the first place at the recommendation of harry reid. my thanks to john ralston from ralston reports. more information coming in about this morning's major 6.0 earthquake in the san francisco bay area about six miles outside napa. two major injuries have been reported in napa county. no further details at this time. local hospitals say they've been flooded with moderate injuries. the u.s. geological survey says it struck on a fault line that's been dormant. believed to be the biggest since the '89 earthquake during the world series. most of the damage appears to be from fire. a water main break is hampering efforts to fight the fire.

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i'm sure you've played this game in your head. if i won the lottery, what could i do? buy a boat, get a new car. i don't need a car in new york city i could buy a vacation home, pay off my debts. for me, maybe i would add a skeet ball machine in there. the point is you can buy a lot of things. one ticket was the sole winner in friday's mega millions $180 million prize. what if i told you you could enter the lottery without having to buy a ticket, be eligible for a grand prize without spending a dichlt all you would have to do is vote. i haven't turned this into an infomercial. the los angeles city ethics commission voted earlier this month to recommend that a lottery system be tied to voting, if you cast a ballot, you become eligible to win a prize. given how low turnout tends to be, it's an intriguing idea.

last year's election for los angeles mayor three of four eligible voters didn't cast a ballot. that's more than 75%. this is a surefire way to bring more people to the polls, right? well, maybe. federal law prohibits payment in exchange forecasting a vote. in a california election where everyone is eligible for the same prize, the l.a. commission they're in the legal right to do so. does that defeat the purpose of voting, the idea of voting. purists would argue the right to vote is one of the pillars upon which our republic was established, a privilege for which there shouldn't be any ulterior motive. we all want to win the megan millions or powerball or cash for life. most would agree that getting more people engaged in the voting process would be a good thing. is marrying these concepts a smart thing. joining me is one of the proponents of the lottery, lay yoel lemaire mount professor.

the purist take on this is voting is voting, a sacred fundamental right we have as americans, some would say obligation we have as americans. no one should ever be doing it for a prize or for cash. why is it a good idea to be linking a lottery to vote? >> first and foremost, i totally agree it is a privilege and a right and everybody should go out and vote. in an ideal world, that's the way the system will work. as we can see over and over, the reality is quite different and we have a 23% turnout. that 75% don't have a voice. there's a lot of reasons why people don't vote. this lottery would get people out and i believe change the system. i think we keep talking about reform, and this is one of the thinking outside of the box he forms that's come up in los angeles. >> what are we talking about when it comes to prizes? a million bucks, $100,000? >> there's a couple things. the ethics commission is proposing about 25,000.

that would still require that the city council and maybe even a charter -- that is, the voters who do go out and vote to approve the system. i am doubtful that this idea, while it's a great idea, it is a great idea to get off the ground in a political process. the process that prospers from low turnout. >> voters would need to approve this before it could go into effect. >> the current proposal from the ethics commission, correct. but there is nothing to stop a nonprofit and a wealthy philanthropist to do it on their own. as you mentioned, not against the law in a local oelection, but it is for a federal election. a nonprofit could be set up and you could do it, my proposal would be to do it by district. not just one winner in the city, but 15 council districts that you would have 15 winners and that way it would be spread out throughout the city. >> to win an election, wouldn't that sort of, what is the mandate of the new mayor, the new city council and they campaign on this and won on this and erode the idea of a mandate,

as well. they won because people wanted some cash. >> well, i mean, why do people go out and vote right now? >> i want to take on the whole myth of the informed voter that everybody who goes out to vote right now. the 23% in los angeles. by the way, los angeles is about the middle. in urban america, we have lower turnouts in some cities like dallas and, obviously, only those cities where you have the election those who do go out to vote don't oftentimes know what the issues are. beyond mayor they don't know what else they're voting. we have a system right now where the majority of voters have no idea why they voted for a particular judge or a particular initiative. >> thanks for getting up and joining us this morning, we appreciate that. we have reported this morning that three mobile homes have been destroyed following this morning's 6.1 earthquake.

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so, i have to say, i have been resisting the ice bucket challenge. you've heard of this thing. you dump a bucket of ice on you head, post a video online and help raise money for als research. great cause. definitely glad people are doing it. by this point it seems just like about everyone else on tv has done it. i am thinking maybe it is getting boring for people or not that original or surprising any more. we're not going to do one of those segments on this show. but, actually, a bunch of people have challenged me to do it. they have challenged me to take my ice bucket challenge. they both dared me to do it along with them. holly is a new jersey assemblywoman when the chris

christie story was raging and she did it and she challenged me and so did my old friend from college, jeff. i was thinking about it yesterday and decided, hey, that's four people challenging me. a good cause. maybe i might as well do it after all. that's what we're going to do right here, right now, right on this set. maybe not the best place for that. but here's ann thompson, one of our producers. she's got the ice bucket and she's bringing it out right now and she's right behind me. hold that steady. you got your raincoat. go ahead and pour the ice bucket on me. she's poured the bucket of ice on me. vanilla ice. the stupid joke you'll ever see right here today. the vanilla ice bucket challenge, i've taken it. it is a good cause. what we're going to do $5 for every one of these pictures of vanilla ice. did we count them up?

>> 88. >> 88 pictures and i'll give $5 to als research out there. i'm glad i didn't get wet. thank you for putting up with that my really lame sense of humor and thank you for joining us. we will be back next weekend. until then, up next, melissa harris-perry. have a great week. i'm m-a-r-y and i have copd. i'm j-e-f-f and i have copd. i'm l-i-s-a and i have copd,

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this morning, my question. to build trust. must you first be trustworthy. plus, the terror of isis. and a mother's terror during a police stop. but, first, a family prepares to bury their child. good morning, i'm melissa harris perry and before we get to our coverage of ferguson, the