this morning, my question. to build trust. must you first be trustworthy. plus, the terror of isis. and a mother's terror during a police stop. but, first, a family prepares to bury their child. good morning, i'm melissa harris perry and before we get to our coverage of ferguson, the newest information on breaking

news out of the san francisco area. more than 50,000 people are out of power right now after an earthquake with a 6.0 magnitude over the bay area this morning. the epicenter five miles north of napa county. there have been gas line breaks and water main breaks and reports of fires and a medical center reports many medical injuries. stay with msnbc for the latest. now to the latest in ferguson, missouri. tomorrow, michael brown's parents will bury their child. it will have been more than two weeks since he was killed by a ferguson police officer. tomorrow, michael brown will be remembered as a son, a grandson, as a cousin, as a big brother and as a friend. he will likely be remembered as someone who was quiet and gentle with a sharp sense of humor, who loved music, particularly hip-hop, and who planned to own his own business. the man child who was 6'4", but had a baby face.

a kid who had struggled, but still managed to graduate from high school just a week before his death. catching up on his credited over the summer. he will be remembered as an 18-year-old boy. that's going to be a nice change. after stories and headlines suggesting michael brown wasn't exactly an innocent victim, monday's service no one will imply that michael brown was not innocent because he may have stolen cigars from a convenience store or because he may have had marijuana in his system or because he rapped about things that young boys rap about. and that, therefore, his death, should not outrage us. because brown was killed while he was unarmed. and while we don't know all the facts, we do know that even if he did stole cigars or smoked marijuana or liked hip-hop, none mean he had to be eshot to death. the victim is not perfect, it is easier to dole the public outrage in response to injustice.

civil right leaders have known and grappled with this for a long time. nine months before rosa parks refused to give up her seat in montgomery, alabama. holden did the same thing. holden was 15 years old when she refused to move for a white person. she was hauled off the bus and arrested. but the civil rights community leaders in montgomery did not want to take up her case although they were looking for a case to challenge segregation on city buses. a victim like rosa parks, but not a perfect face for the movement. she was a teenager, poor and soon after her arrest, pregnant. rosa parks, on the other hand, well, as dr. martin luther king later wrote, mrs. parks was the ideal for the role assigned to her by history. both women, victims of aggressive policing of segregation, but it is parks who was championed by local activists launching the montgomery busboy.

we must not ignore stories like hers and michael brown's because even though they're not perfect they have a perfect right to seek justice. joining me now on the plans to honor michael brown is richard lui. what is the mood in ferguson this morning? >> good morning to you, melissa. you talk about that mark of history and they understand where they will stand or can stand. last night we had reports from captain ron johnson who was so often talked about many of those illusions that you were just referencing. only six arrests as he put it overnight. otherwise, it was calm. this is a move towards that ark of healing. looking at monday, tomorrow, and that funeral service. and part of that movement towards healing is community policing. yesterday we had the opportunity right around the corner here, we were down by the apartment

complex where mike brown lived and about 1,000 bags of food was being delivered, not only by community organizations, some of which are religious, but also police officers. and this filled an 18-wheeler and lieutenant lore from the st. louis police department had to say this about what they're trying to do. >> obviously, we're trying to take some steps to show them that we're people like they're people. obviously, try to provide some assistance for them. this is stressful for not only us but the persons who live here. citizens that live here that feel like they have been confined to their homes since the turmoil. we want to bridge build those bridges back up. >> and part of that, melissa, is that the ferguson police department itself, although three officers i was told by the organizer wanted to be part of the distribution decided not to be. however, the other three police forces were there. ten of them total. part of that tension, if you

will, still existing. you can look at today's paper new life amid chaos. again, describing how despite moving towards healing, there is still some opportunity here to understand what those different backdrops are. out of bounds. the very front page. they list all of the counties. all the municipalities in this area with at least 10% african-american population. and then they put next to that the number or the percentage of african-american police officers. there is only one municipality right down here out of the 31 that have equal or more representation. i bring this up because today is the day before the memorial service and this is that backdrop. they're going to forget tomorrow for a moment, perhaps, giving honor to michael brown. about 5,000 seats will be available at that location and we understand from the church that 485 of the immediate and extended family will be there. and i got to speak with one of them yesterday and that was mike's grandfather.

his grandfather, big daddy, and his grandfather calling mike, mike mike. i want this done because i have not slept that way ain two week looked that way. having to say good-bye to him tomorrow is going to be very, very difficult. melissa? >> richard, thank you for your reporting on the ground. indeed, there's been a lot of questions that we'll continue to discuss. many of the things you set up for us there. all eyes are on that family and we know for those of us who have buried the ones that we love the funeral often brings new kind of pain and agony. so, all eyes at this point will hopefully be on the healing for the family in the short term. thank you, richard. >> that's right. joining me now is elan james white, he's a writer, he's a creator of the award winning web

series and he's been on the ground in ferguson. political director to russell simmons. associate professor at university of pennsylvania and co-founder of the nonprofit a long walk hope and kye wright. so nice to see you all. so, hearing from richard, the language about community healing and i guess part of the challenge as we are asking about this question of the perfect victim and whether or not a victim has to be perfect. so, is this healing, this attempt to heal, is it a band aid over a much deeper wound? do we need to do some work of cleaning out that wound first before we put a band aid on it? >> yeah. i think that part of it is we have to think about these moments where you have a huge

outcry over an individual and start thinking about how they can be about more than healing around that individual death, right? and also more how it can be about more than prosecuting a prosecutor and police officer and how it can speak to, if the question is what is justice for mike brown and before that what was justice for oscar grant? is it a prosecution or is it re-creating a policing style that makes it possible for mike brown to walk down in the middle of the street without being harassed. >> interesting you bring up oscar grant. think about what is going to happen to michael brown, this kind of public, he now belongs to all of us in this kind of public way and the way sean bell and others do. the recent film in which we get to see sort of the light of this young man on that 24 hours before he is killed at the b.a.r.t. station and i wonder about this work of needing to actually go back and reproduce these young men as people in order for us to feel the outrage

about their death. almost immediately, though, this is the kind of response. if they gun me down, what picture will they use? we saw it over social media where people were showing pictures of themselves in their high school graduation or college graduation or in their armed service uniforms and then we all take a kind of silly and why must the victim be perfect for this to have been an injustice? >> in the ways in which oscar grant's life was seen as complex, as contradictory and as messy and, also, here we have michael brown. adolescent, right. that's part of being a teenager in american society anyway. unfortunately what happens when the victim of racial injustice is being vilified by the police or by the media, the response is to kind of cover up that messiness and make the person sanitize or make them perfect. i think one important departure of this generation and i think

all of us from the civil rights movement is to think about victims of racial justice as not being perfect. they can't be. part of the goal of the civil rights movement is to restore the notion of black humanity and it means also that we don't deserve to be killed as a result of minor crimes, if at all any crimes. we don't even know with michael brown. i think that's why that hashtag and those pictures are so important. politics and respectability that were necessary in the 1960s. it is a call for more complex understanding in the presence. in response to the perfect victim, what constitute the perfect, and the way that gender functions. so we have a line from trayvon martin to michael brown. and, so, we have perfect victims that we need to push back. we also have to think about the racialized gender notion of the perfect that we organize around

and people we leave behind as a result. >> as you talk about that, as the sort of notion of martyr and part of what i have found heartening about the response of young people on the ground is it it did not seem to be a need to put on the white gloves of sunday morning to show up for the protests. that there was a sense of, we are coming as we are, as we dress, who we are in our full, messy self-expression as black urban youth and, nonetheless, saying you don't have a right to tear gas us. you don't have a right to impose a curfew on us and shoot us on the way to grandmother's house and in a moment we'll see a break in that protesting so that ordinary people on the ground have a right to say, this is my country, too. >> out there this was not the first time something like this had happened. when you speak to people and speak to the community, actually, they pointed out that

mike brown were at this particular point and they had been living under the extreme circumstances for quite some time. when they came out to speak up and say, we are not going to allow stuff like this to happen, there was no other way to do it. there was no, like an organization or to come in and make this work. no, we're tired of this actually happeni happening. when they asked about the police or the band aid. to me, i would argue it's less of a band aid and more salt in the wound because these people have actually been watching. this is something that in the area, like they report and in ferguson, there is three warrants for every household. every household in ferguson. so, you're looking at a community that has been like brutalized by the police for not just the past two weeks, but for years. so now you're seeing the response from that community saying we're tired of this and we're going to stand up. our humanity is important and then we have to watch for two weeks the police say actually it's not important, you're

vermin. >> goes beyond ways of just shooting you. >> we'll stay on this and we'll get you in. another deadly police shooting in the st. louis area this week. but the reaction was very different. when we come back, just how much can happen in 23 seconds. deser. at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. so let's do it. let's simplify healthcare. let's close the gap between people and care.

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in ferguson a young black man shot to death a few miles away in st. louis. the deadly encounter caught on tape on a six-minute cell phone video. the person behind the camera starts rolling before the police arrive. >> he just straight put him on

the ground. man, this is crazy. >> the man in the video has allegedly stolen two drinks from a convenience store. he didn't try to make a run for it, he placed the drinks nicely on the sidewalk and apparently waited. throughout the video people don't be aafraid of his pacing and the steady stream of curses he is saying but then the police arrive. and even as they get there, the person filming does not seem to expect that it will end in powell's death. even as the cops get out of the car and quickly draw their guns. >> the police are going to pull up and, you all call the police? >> get your hands out of your pocket! >> just 23 seconds after the police arrive, powell is dead. he'd apparently walked towards

the officers and repeatedly yelled shoot me. the officers opened fire. we will not show you that part of the video. want to point out that the person filming along with the other witnesses and bystanders is in disbelief. in particular, because of what had been happening in ferguson for more than a week after michael brown was killed by a police officer. >> shoot somebody at a time like this. >> thet sh shooting of powell happened 2 1/2 miles from where brown was shot. there was calm. things there were the way they usually are when the police use deadly force, on average, at least 400 times a year. some of the difference may lie in how the police reacted. not the ferguson police or the county police we've seen in ferguson began speaking to the community almost immediately. within an hour and a half the st. louis police chief sam

datsun was holding a news conference at the scene of the shooting. powell was brandishing a knife. that's not completely clear in the video. he was moving towards the officers at close range when they opened fire. >> the officers are giving the suspect verbal commands, stop, drop the knife, stop, drop the knife. the suspect moved towards the passenger at which time he came within three to four feet of the officer and the officer shot. both officers fired their weapons striking the suspect and the suspect is deceased. >> it was the police department that released cell phone video that we just watched just a day after the shooting they also released 911 calls and quickly responded to criticism about discrepancy before the initial versions of the event and the video. how close powell was to the officers when they opened fire. however, police still have not released the names of the officers who shot powell. the shooting is under investigation but remains debate over whether the officers could have done something else. for example, use their tasers to subdue powell instead of, or at

least before firing their handg handguns. still, getting information out as soon as possible seems to have the desired effect, instead of protests calm in the streets of st. louis and the streets there have been increasingly peaceful. when we come back, i want to ask my panel, is transparency the same thing as accountability? and is peace as good as justice? copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled... ...copd maintenance treatment... ...that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops.

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add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. nationwide is on your side. >> chief, we're already starting to hear people yelling, are you guys concerned about this? >> concerned isn't the right word. i think it's important people understand what happened. we're going to get that message out as quickly as we can through as many sources as we can. >> chief of the st. louis metropolitan police on tuesday during a press conference on the shooting death of a young black man by two police officers. the chief's quick response and including cell phone video of the shooting preventing the kind of protest in nearby ferguson

after the death of michael brown. joining me now from chicago eugene o'donnell at john jay college of criminal justice and a former ny police officer. nice to have you this morning. >> good morning, melissa. >> i was watching as that news broke live on tuesday and my first sense of like a sinking feeling in my stomach was, oh, my goodness, this is going to reignite what was, what was already going on in ferguson and making people feel, again, that sense of vulnerability, but then i almost feel more stressed that it didn't. i want to be clear, not that i wanted, that i wanted any kind of violent response, but that i guess i'm surprised at how quickly, simply by responding and putting out information, police were able to quell any sense of massive outrage. >> well, i mean, transparency is important. really what we need to talk about is the need for people to

own their police departments, to be engaged, to vote. there's too much imposed policing going in the country and you have been on this case abount mental illness. i don't know if this guy has a mental health issue, i read this as a mental health issue or a desperation issue. too much was being funneled down the police. the piece in "time" about our failure to reckon with the underlying situations of things like mental health. really, the only way to minimize a lot of these conflicts is to avoid having the police involved. we saw in ferguson and we see here the arrival of the police can sometimes make things better. we need to remind ourselves the arrival of police, not through any necessary fault of their own can make things worse, also. >> i like the point you made, michael, i want to come out to you on this because i think that sense of the arrival of the police in this case, 23 seconds later. mr. powell is dead.

and, you know, for me as i watch that video and i watched it over and over again the thing that is most stunning to me the kid taking the video is thinking it is about to go down and get a little internet famous here and he's not out there to police the police. he's not an activist like i'm going to get this on camera because the police are about to do something. there isn't any sense of fear or other people in the video until suddenly the police arrive and you start feeling, oh, if only they hadn't called 911. >> you said this happened just three miles away from where these protests are happening. the issue on transparency is a little lost. we don't need to be transparent after you kill a black child. but be transparent before you kill a black child. what is your hiring procedures and sensitivity training. what is standard operating procedure for fleeing suspect. how do you train your officers? do you teach choke holds in the economy. these things we need to know in terms of policing the police not

after. i don't care if you bring food after you kill the kid but if you bring food before you kill the kid. i want transparency before these things happen, not after they happen. >> eugene, let me come to you. what, what are police officers trained to do? clearly the st. louis police had knew how to respond after the fact, right? if one's goal is having no protests, then they are a successful police department in that they kept protests from happening. one might think they're not a successful police department if they did not keep this shooting from happening. >> when the police come to these things, they come with a mind set and orientation and deadly force and with weapons they can't be wrestling around with people who try to disarm them. knowing, not knowing the ending like we do, so, those things also have to be put into the equation. again, the police have pretty minimal training for a lot of this stuff.

if you can get specialized units, that would be good. one thing i also think of when these things happen, i hope the academies are making it clear they're shooting only because they must, not because they can. not a reflection in this particular case. the only reason firing at anybody you believe your life is going to be taken and if you don't have that honest belief about that, then you shouldn't be firing. >> one of the things we know, kai, about that polibelief is t belief is -- we're not talking explicit but implicit racial bias leads, often officers to believe that a black person, particularly a black man is more threatening than they, in fact, are. >> that is doubled down by a system by a larger policing apparatus that says be in these neighborhoods, be in these places in an aggressive way. and this kind of ogets to the

point about what happens before the shooting. we only have these conversations when there is a dead body. but there are so many things that proceed that. there are so many forms of policing that proceed that that create these hostile environments that allow. if we look at eric garner's death in staten island, he had been harassed dozens of times prior to this. >> which is what he says to the police officers. will you please stop hassling me. >> this was the culmination in his case of months of harassment, but in the community's case, years of harassment that leads to these kinds of outbreaks. >> can i also make a point about this. you say there wasn't the outrage when the shooting haphappened, in ferguson and people, when we find out they say they shot this kid. people are hurt. so, you say there wasn't an outrage, what it was, i would argue it was more of a break of a spirit. they just killed someone else

and we're in the middle of protesting this and they killed someone else. three miles away from here. meaning that they don't care. it doesn't matter. people are watching, they don't care and they're getting away with it. you get a press conference and all of a sudden it's like, no. at this point we know now you will kill us and it doesn't matter. >> i so appreciate that. i have been reading the fact that there wasn't a reignition of it as a lack of outrage or as a seeing it as somehow justifiable because of the discourse about the young man being in the circumstance of sort of suicide by cop. but another way of reading those same set of facts is the possibility of a kind of brokenness in the face of this. >> when i got into the car and someone was like, did you hear about the kid? they just shot that poor kid. they just shot him. this was just another example of the police brutality they have been living under for years and we're just all of a sudden

coming here and understanding this is national, the issue is people of color and the police, but in this situation, people would say that. stay with us, i want to really dig into this question of accountability. euge eugene, stay with us, both accountability before and after the fact. an update on the earthquake in san francisco this morning and details of president obama's new action in the wake of the protest in ferguson, missouri. we are the solis family. and this is our chex commercial. there's lots of choices. like chocolate, honey nut and cinnamon, with no artificial colors or flavors. and it's gluten free. chex. full of what you love. free of what you don't. who's more excited about back to school sthe moms? staples? or the dads? with guaranteed low prices on colored pencils,

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we have more ferguson and police accountability to discuss, but, first, i want to bring you the latest on the breaking news out of the san francisco area. "last times" reports at least 70 people have been hospitalized with nonlife threatening injuries after an earthquake with a 6.0 magnitude rattled the

bay area early this morning. tens of thousands are still without power right now. crews are fighting fires amid downed power lines and water main breaks and gas leaks. stay with msnbc throughout the day for this updating story. i want to take you back to this shooting in murgsoferguson missouri. according to "new york times" president obama has ordered a comprehensive review of the government's decade-old strategy of outfitting local police departments with body armor, mine resistant trucks, silencers and automatic rifles. the review will focus on how the military equipment is being used. whether local police have enough training to use it and whether they should continue the program at all. eugene, your sense whether these departments are willing to give up militarized equipment without a fight. i don't mean like a fight, i just mean without resistance to

it. >> it's a political question. and this is a failure of political people to lead. they're going to have to make judgments that are going to be problematic about what agency should and should not get this equipment. with the possibility that there's a problem if you give it and there's a problem if you deny it when there is a school shooting in a small town and no s.w.a.t team that was disbanded because of this. elected officials will have to step up. if i can just say related to that, since we're talking about accountability. a new mayor was elected in new york and a new district attorney in brooklyn was elected and both of them have done dramatic reforms on these issues of police abuse by simply reducing the police footprint and stop and frisk has plummeted in new york city. the district attorney in brooklyn without blinking ran on and is enforcing basically not writing up junk marijuana arrests. people should not be disheartened. i get the sense sometimes it zaps people's energy trying to make these reforms. criminal justice has taken up so

much time that we can't move on to more important issues. it's almost like a to talitarian system which it has its foot on people's throats. people need to reassert themselves and communities need to be hurt and get the kind of policing and law enforcement that they want and not what is imposed on them. >> let me come out on that because this question of, you know, the nypd sort of being in a better place, but just yesterday protests around eric garner's death that seem to result from an apparent chokehold and the lapd over the course of the past week a similar kind of shooting in los angeles in a place that in the past has sparked protests, has, where we've seen the clashes between police and citizens, not unlike the militarized response of police to the protesters in ferguson. and, yet, this time kind of a tempered reaction. i'm wondering if things are getting better or if there is a

co-optation of the process. i want to be sure we're making a clear distinction between lack of protest or peace in the streets. >> i think it has to do with what the standard is. is the standard of a lack of militarized police presence or the lack of shooting of unarmed african-americans. so, i come from the latter, right? so, in l.a. and i think there's been a lot of media coverage of the bank of trust that the lapd has been investing in this community and, so, therefore, and there isn't a presence of militarized police. protesters are, you know, articulating their distrust and their complaints. but i think in a way it's a self-congradlatory moment. the emphasis on thinking why police officers are so hypermilitarized is good and we also have to have a better conversation and a better conversation around accountability and also about real concrete data. unarmed children being killed.

getting a national registry or national data about the number of ways in which police officers are using lethal force. >> i do want to point out because a couple times we talked about that statistic of 400. that is coming from self-report of police to the fbi, those are all justifiability homicides, a legal and it does not account for all police citizen interactions. only the ones that are self-reported by the police and the fbi. >> the third thing i want to say to kai's point. the climate of being a black person is weaponized body. i mean, that creates a different kind of level of threat, of use of lethal force and i think that's a deeper and harder conversation for people to have. but we're at the point where, you know, just being unarmed and holding your hands up means that you're likely to be killed by a police officer. >> we're getting closer, eugene, i just want to come back to you real quick.

i promise to let you back in when we get back from the break. i know you have been thinking carefully about how to address that issue of accountability before, which michael brought up for us. so, how are you beginning to think as a researcher and as a former police officer how we address that question of implicit and explicit racial bias before police are in the position of shooting and killing young people? >> well, on so many levels, but, obviously, i'm hopeful i'm keeping my fingers and heart and mind crossed that the younger generation of police officers who have grown up in a different kind of country than the older police officers and see the lunacy of group blame will take it upon them selves to push out the bad actors and the agency with a lutt little nudge from u. the change has to come fraught from the bottom and disciplining

people that is not the transformative change that we absolutely need. >> eugene o'donnell in chicago, illinois, thank you. up next, it is a powerful and potentially dangerous weapon. if you can't use it during war, why is it being used on american streets. and asked for less. there's a reason it's called an "all you can eat" buffet... and not a "have just a little" buffet. because what we all really want is more. that's why verizon is giving you even more. now, for a limited time, get more data! 1 gb of bonus data every month with every new smartphone or upgrade. our best ever pricing with the more everything plan and 50% off all new smartphones. like the htc one m8 for windows or android. built to inspire envy. come get your more with verizon. after seeing everything, but let me take one last look. sure. take your time. built-in nav, heated seats for mom, dvd with wireless headphones for the kids!

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it's one of the remedies that individual citizens, even professionals of the media are using to limit the effects of tear gas. according to a recent interview with one of my guests duke university scientist savannah eric it's like cutting an onion but 100 times more severe. could lead to the feeling of suffocation and skin and eye inflammation. and, there is the possibility, although it is not well researched, but there is the possibility that, in fact, tear gas can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. and, so the question is, if tear gas is something that we cannot use in international warfare, why is it something that we use in domestic politics? i'm going to talk about all of that, when we come back. at managing my symptoms,

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>> oh, my god. >> that's tear gas. >> tear gassing the neighborhood now. >> tear gassing the neighborhoods on. put your mask on, people. >> get the milk. >> milk now. >> just tear gassing completely. it looks like they're not even aiming. the principal voice you heard on that recording was that of our guest elan james white who is recording a dispatch. joining me now from raleigh, north carolina, associate professor in the department of anesthesiology in duke university of medicine. i want to come to elan first because, obviously, i follow your work. it was an incredibly compelling, but also very frightening moment, i think, for us listening to you from the safety

and clear air of our homes. talk to me a little bit about your experience. >> we were going back into ferguson because, as we said, a lot of issues and reports that were coming from the police and the press conferences weren't matching up what we were hearing on the ground. i was working with the people that actually lived there and actually going to bail someone out who had been arrested earlier we go back in to find out what's going on because they're saying fires and supposedly malative cocktails. we're not on the main road. we go through a side residential block. as we go in and i'm broadcasting live because i want people to hear this. people are arguing and telling people that they're lying and this is not occurring. we're broadcasting live at that very moment and when we come up the street we see a car, an armored truck comes flying down the street behind six people and so it's not, it's not rioting protest, looters happening.

six people on foot running from this truck. they come down and all of a sudden you see this fiery spark that start flying and then tear gas. so, it people that i'm with, we actually have a mask and milk. we're going out to try to help them. when we run outside, we get to them and they're affected and we have one guy saying it burns. and we're trying to talk him down and record it and to the point i forget i even have my camera on me because there's tear gas everywhere. on a residential block. if you listen to the tape, you can live here outside of when the police come, it's quiet. you hear crickets in the background and now all of a sudden we're in the midst. the tear gas that we're using. it doesn't dissipate very quickly. there's clouds and plumes of tear gas everywhere and we're trying to help these people. at this point it's approximatelyimabapproximately nine of us outside and then all of a sudden the truck comes back and firing at us. we're not doing anything.

it's not like no justice. it's not like we're breaking and they're just firing at us. we had to jump over a gate and hide behind someone's background because -- the problem is that people, the people that i was with thought they were going to die. and it wasn't, it wasn't the story that was being told. you're going to sit there and broadcast that all of this is happening and it's not. >> okay. deep breath. >> i actually haven't heard the tape much after i had it air.

>> folks, i'm going to take a break right now. we're going to come back and talk about some other things in a minute. elon is not only my guest but my friend so we're going to take a break and be back in a bit. (male announcer) it's happening.

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we're back and we're continuing to talk about the realities of what happened on the ground with in ferguson, missouri, with my guests. i want to pause for a second because i want to go back to raleigh, north carolina, professor at duke university school of medicine is joining us. i want you to talk to me for a little bit about the fizz logiclodg physiological copnsequence. elon has reminded us that it is not a routine experience to be tear gassed. in a physiological medical sense, what does it do? >> i have experienced with elon's experience. so what tear gases do, they activate very fine nerve endings on the surface of our cornea in

the eye and also in the nasal passages on the skin. and pen sensing system that warns us from imminent danger from toxic chemical exposures and leads to very intense pain and very intense feeling and then leads to tear secretion and closing of the eye and secretions secretion s in the eyes and leading to incapacitation. >> that feeling of fear, elon, was talking about the feeling of being with people who felt like they were going to die. part of that is about the circumstances in which people found themselves, but is there also part of it is the tear gas itself? >> i think it's a consequence of the very severe pain, the disorientation and also the choking, the closing of the airways. the feeling of potential asphyxiation that causes intense

fear. so, i think this is how the fear originates. >> stay with us for a second. michael, i want to come to you in part because there was a narrative towards the end of the week that whatever we were seeing, however stunning and appalling it seemed to us that unlike previous clashes of previous decades, there were no live rounds being fired and no civilians killed in the context of the protest, which we had seen in the 1960s and, therefore, there was praise for the restraint. then i have my friend and my colleague talking about the experience of being tear gassed and suddenly i feel like that was a pretty false praise. >> but i think to our friend elon's point earlier, this has been going on for decades. a war against black and brown america has been going on for decades. the war on drugs 40 years ago began this. the militarization of police and the fact that we have the tools to shoot against our own people. race is at the center of this

issue and let's not forget that. mike brown was killed by a white cop. eric garner was killed by a white cop. rodney king beat up by white cops and sodomized by white cops. white police officers are killing black people two times a week to that report that you referenced earlier. every single week. when we see the images in elon to his courage for continuing to film that so we, as you said, melissa, could witness that and it's solidarity to our best to get that information out to our communities. as difficult as it was to hear, again, elon, i love you for sharing that with the world. if we didn't hear that information, we might not have known how ugly it is. >> we most certainly would not know -- >> that's right. >> and as we're talking about this and they're framing it and the story keeps s coming out at the rioters and the looters and i'm sorry, you know, it's not

the answer, but it's not the story. and, so at this point, you have to question why would even, why would the media even go along with this narrative as people are actively explaining to you. do you understand what's happening on the ground? people are acting, yes, some folks that are doing that, but what about everyone else and what about the vast majority of people and also the police safety and the article that comes out and don't challenge me because i'm a police officer. so, basically your safety overrides my own humanity and you can't do this to people. if this is the way, if this is how the police have to be safe, our system is broken completely. we have to rebuild it because this is not, this is not, you can't. >> in fact, i'd go even further than the question because certainly you brought us are all

the way back to the good beginn. looters, rioters and what about them. given there is international convention against it in the use of war and amnesty international shows up and even under the circumstances of threat to property, that's what looting is, threat to property that tear gas is still not a reasonable response to that from an american police force to american citizens. elon, your work over the course of the past two weeks and i know you will want to continue to push on this and i'll ask you, also, that you sacrificed a lot and i know you'll sacrifice more but also okay to pause for a moment. and here in new york, thank you so much to elon james white. the rest of the panel will be back in the next hour. we will have more on ferguson and the issue of trust later in this show. right now, we're going to turn to the latest on breaking news out of the san francisco

area. the "l.a. times" reports at least 70 people have been hospitalized with non-life threatening injuries after an earthquake with a 6.0 magnitude rattled the bay area earlier this morning. tens of thousands without power and crews are fighting fire and downed power lines and water main breaks and gas leaks. the largest earthquake to shake the bay area since 1989. stay with msnbc throughout the day for updates on this developing story. this week began with news that the kurdish fighters and iraqi government forces with the support of air strikes by the united states left to retake iraq from isis extremists who controlled the location since early august. a positive note for the coalition of nations and it's a growing control over regions of iraq and syria. we got that news on monday.

on tuesday, we learned that isis had executed u.s. citizen and journalist james foley who disappeared in november of 2012 while reporting in syria. we will not show the video that isis released of james foley's murder. only an image from that. britain's secret services have identified that killer as a british man. but nbc news hat na s has not c that. accusing the killer of an other betrayal of country. president obama addressed foley's murder on wednesday. >> is it the calculation, though -- >> today the entire world is appalled by the brutal murder of jim foley by the terrorist group. jim was a journalist, a son, a brother and a friend.

he reported from difficult and dangerous places bearing witness to the lives of people a world away. he was taken hostage nearly two years ago in syria and he was courageously reporting at the time on the conflict there. jim was taken from us in an act of violence that shocks the conscious of the entire world. >> the president called for confrontation of hateful terrorism. our friends and allies would stop short of outlining specific military action against isis. the united states continued air strikes conducting one air strike yesterday. defense secretary chuck hagel told reporters thursday the united states considers isis an imminent threat. jim mick asked the threat it presents? >> presents a 9/11 threat to the united states? >> jim, iso is a sophisticated

and well funded as any group that we've seen. they're beyond just a terrorist group. they marry ideology, sophistication of strategic and tactical military prowls. this is beyond anything we've seen. >> here with me in new york is colonel jack jacobs and joining me from london is ed hussain. thank you, both, for being here. >> thank you, melissa. >> ed, i do want to start with with you. help us to understand the land space that is currently controlled by isis. how vast it is and how strategic and how resource rich. >> it's resource rich in the sense, melissa, that they've gone out of their way to target oil installations. it's oil rich in the sense that it has airports. it is resource rich that it is

fertile territory and strategically important because it is on the eastern most part of syria and western most part of iraq and, most importantly, it's important to them because it's in the middle east. it is not as was previously the conflict zone in bosnia or chechnya. this is in the heart of the middle east and exactly where they wanted the and wanted to have a presence in the heart of the middle east and not far from israel and saudi arabia and turkey. so, their choice of this location is not accidental. what's more worrying is what you just alluded to, melissa. the appeal of that location, that geography, that has led to hundreds of british muslims. i'm in london and i'm picking up the music and the tone and the color here. going out to fight in this, for the so-called califate and then many prepare to come back.

my real concern is that we consider all options whether it's attacking or otherwise, will they turn around and say to their british and other european fighters that you guys are an asset here, but, actually, you're better off going back to the european homeland and trying to trigger attacks into the u.s. and the uk andalcy where. and while the fighting inside iraq and syria is important, but i think we shouldn't turn our eyes away from the risk of blow back to the homeland here. >> so, colonel jack, let me bring you in on what we just heard from ed hussein and what we heard from secretary hagel before that. with given the vastest of the land, given how they're being characterized and given that there are clearly parts of the organization that are carrying, for example, british passports, how in the world did we underestimate isis at this level? >> our intelligence is so terrible. we had nobody on the ground in syria. indeed, we have been talking for a long time. politicians, the media, everybody in the united states has been talking for a long time

how we need to undermine assad. get on the side of the rebels. we had nobody on the ground. we've tried recently to develop the human intelligence capable of giving us information about isis in syria and we haven't done it yeyet. we're way behind the 8 ball and part of it was the complacency that we all developmented about the importance of undermining the despots and without realizing what the alternative was and the alternative was isis. >> speaking of alternatives. ed, let me come to you on that because i think colonel jack makes a very important point about the ways we undermine existing states, even if they were despots, as we understand them. as isis at this point basically become a state? if so, what are the alternativess even if thalterna

e even if they can be defeated? >> it's important for us to realize that isis is not a new threat. isis has been on the map since 2002. isis was known as al qaeda and iraq and in 2002, all the way up to two years ago. the united states forces were combatting and fighting with al qaeda and iraq for almost ten years. so, we know who they are. it it was partly because of the syrian civil war and also to do with the u.s. withdrawal from the middle east, more specifically with troop withdrawal from iraq that emboldened this new leadership to give itself a new name and a new control of territory and new enthusiasm and it doesn't face resistance in its locality. now, it's flawed, i think, to then argue that the u.s. should respond by its old methodology of old bombs and more troops on the ground. what is desperately needed is u.s. leadership on mobilizing saudi arabia, turkey, egypt, jordan and other important countries in the region to lead the effort in cleansing the

ground by whatever means necessary that the isis and others have now struck up as the so-called caliphate. it is a sham bolic state. it doesn't have support on the ground in terms of beyond its control zone and it enforces its government by the mass killings and the brutality that we've seen at the hands of the isis carried out against the others. and unless, i'm not calling for troops on the ground or necessarily usair strikes. mobilize its allies along with the europeans to lead an offensive against isis and does nat look like doing assad's bidding. >> i appreciate you both helping to put this into context. up next, the issue of trust in the wake of the protests in ferguson, missouri. ng you from e healthcare you deserve. at humana, we believe the gap will close

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is. americans have always mistrusted government. we were founded with a declaration of independence from a government that had proved itself unworthy of trust. a declaration that states it's not only the right of the people but their duty to throw off a ruler that they cannot trust to protect their right, liberty and pursue happiness. americans have forged meaningful bonds of trust with one another and sustain this little experiment and democratic self governance. trusted the government in washington to do what is right. by october 2013, pew reported that only 19% of americans felt that sense of trust. our founding teaches that when the people no longer trust those who govern, the whole system is

in trouble. maybe that is why trust has emerged as a central theme in ferguson, missouri. this week, gallup reported that while 59% of white adults have a great deal of confidence in the police, this sentiment is shared by only 37% of black adults. a 22-point trust divide. this is what distrust sounds like. >> think about the young folks in this community that are now, now seeing and experiencing this for themselves. their understanding of law enforcement and civil rights and civil liberties is forever skewed and it will take a lot of work to reinstill some confidence into them. i hope and i pray that we have not lost a generation to more distrust. >> in the wake of community protests following the police shooting of unarmed teen michael brown, many ask how can we get the people of ferguson and communities around the country

to trust the police. that is the wrong question. instead, we should ask, what have the police done to earn the trust of the people? 50 years ago three civil rights workers in mississippi, james cheney, 21. andrew goodman who was 22 were beaten, shot and later found buried. it was local police who pulled the three young men over. it was local police who released them after dark into the hands of the kkk. in 1969, chicago police raided the apartment of black panther fred hampton and they shot him in his bed. the panthers opened fire on them, but evidence would later surface that the fbi, the cook county state attorney's office to assassinate hampton. in 1999, new york city police 41 shots at west african immigrants striking him 19 times. the officers said they thought he and earlier this month, 18-year-old michael brown was

shot at least six times by a ferguson, missouri, police officer and these officers are part of our collective memory and the living reality. they are the cornerstones of the mistrust and wariness and suspicion that under lie the protests in ferguson. ferguson that have been met with curfews and riot gear and tear gas and military grade weaponry. the question may not be why don't the people trust the police. the question may be, why would they? when we come back, we'll try to answer that question. acturery shut down in america. there's no reason we can't manufacture in the united states. here at timbuk2, we make more than 70,000 custom bags a year, right here in san francisco. we knew we needed to grow internationally, we also knew that it was much more complicated to deal with.

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ask your doctor if crestor could help you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> we had charged to unearth the truth about our past. to lay the ghost of the past so that they will not return to haunt us. and that we will thereby to the traumatized and wounded people. >> that archbishop desmond tutu

speaking at south africa truth and reconciliation commission. now the commission was set up so that anyone who felt they were violently victimized under the system of apartide could come forward and be heard. approximately 21,000 people testified. 2,000 of them appearing at public hearings. though only a few efforts to prosecute the perpetrators of the violence actually happened at the commission, the commission itself was a chance for victims to be heard and the nation to listen. and, therefore, to start the healing process. it'sry minder that the effort to build trust in the aftermath of violence requires a willingness to honestly and publicly take responsibility for atrocities and injustices. at the table, shaylan at the university of connecticut. michael editor and chief of

globalgrind.com. associate professor of english at the university of pennsylvania and co-founder of the nonprofit a long walk home. kai wright and joining me live from ferguson, missouri, state senator maria chappelle. nice to have you, state senator. >> thanks, melissa. >> i understand from looking at your twitter feed you were going to bring your gas mask with you for this appearance and that sense to walk through the streets of your own town, you would need to carry this new accessory. what has happened any bonds of trust that once existed in this community. >> i have to tell you, melissa, i never expected to have to prepare my constituents for tear gas, ever. all we have been trying to do from day one is express our selves and to demonstrate that our voices must be heard and we have to absolutely be in

communication with our leaders including our governor and our u.s. state senators and other people. but the young people that i represent, what they've been trying to establish here is that their voices are absolutely equal to everyone else. and, so, because we have had to endure tear gas and a lot of intimidation from the police force, we've had to undergo a certain measure that we never anticipated. instead of being from ferguson, missouri, we now call it baghdad, missouri. and that is unfortunate for a wonderful society in which we live in which we do have challenges such as institutional racism. >> can you imagine the possibility of the police forces that have been deploying military procedure and tear gas. saying that they are sorry for what they have done to the people of ferguson? >> you know, i have to tell you,

it is going to take a long time for the multiple departments to really bring justice to the people in this community. what they have done is injured people who have already been oppressed and i'm not talking 60 years ago, i'm talking about the last 10 or 12 years. the majority of the young people that are in my community have been intimidated. they have been harassed. and only because of the death of michael brown jr. now all of these feelings are coming into fruition and they're very angry and they're in pain. so, in order to overcome that mistrust, what we're going to have to do is have to have open conversation every single day and we cannot reject a statement that may seem offensive to us, but we have to come from a place where we basically understand where another person is coming from. we're starting that process right now, melissa. >> hold for me one second, state senator. sheila, i want to come to you because you quite literally have

written the book on trust and race in this country. as you have been watching events unfold in ferguson, what has sort of your position as a scholar, how does it help you to reflect on this question of mistrust within black communities veis-a-vis the police? >> how discrimination experiences institutionalize racism. outright violence have been a part of this history. and even though young people may have read this as history to have witnessed this in their presence and in the present is something that will affect young people. as the state senator said, in a way we may not have even imagined. not just about a story for people. this is a reality. and i think it really does challenge us to think about citizenship and what the question of citizenship has meant for black people in america throughout its history. >> are there things we know from

that history? i mean part of why i invoked desmond tutu and the death and reconc reconciliation enormous breaches that have found a minor way to begin to heal. do we know anything from that history about healing? i don't mean like band aid healing? i mean legitimate cleaning of the wound cleaning. >> we have had resolutions to apologize for slavery. i don't know how many people are aware of that. but that is important because acknowledging this history is something that our nation should do, has attempted to do but the conversations around it, i think, are very important so that people can discuss the hurt that they have felt. the trauma behind the violence or even the trauma behind realizing that one's citizenship may not be full. these are the kinds of conversations that we should entertain so that we can develop some form of empathy because i think that is what is at the

core of this. empathizing with human beings and understanding that citizenship, but more importantly, human rights are at the core of our being. >> state senator let me come back to you for the question of empathy. the next major thing we expect to happen in your town is the burial, the funeral of michael brown and the realities of a family having to do the one thing that parents should never have to do. that is to bury their child. do you think that there is some capacity in that moment for a sense of human empathy for michael brown and his family? >> absolutely, melissa. i have to tell you, tomorrow is a day of closure for not only the family, but for this community. it was only a couple of days ago where the family was only able to see their young son and have that moment and time where they get to say personally, one-on-one good-bye. but for the community and the family as a whole, tomorrow will mark an important day and then

we have to move on to the next steps so that this does not reoccur any more. we don't have to have gas masks in our community and be in fear injustice, yet again. so, we are trying to take these steps and these measures so that we can change certain requirements that are at the city council level and at the state level and frankly some changes that we're going to have to make federally, as well. but the moment tomorrow and right now is on behalf of the family and our hearts have complete sympathy for this family and what they have had to go through. >> state senator marissa chappelle-nadal. thank you for your clearing voice out of ferguson, missouri. stay safe. >> thank you so much. we'll have more on the issue of trust in a moment, but, first, i do want to bring you the latest on the breaking news out of northern california. emergency crews are assessing the damage after an earthquake

with a 6.0 magnitude that rattled the bay area this morning. according to "los angeles times" 70 people were hospitalized with nonlife threatening injuries and several fires have broken out and reports of significant damage. firefighters have been complicated by broken water mains and gas leaks and stay with msnb throughout the day for updates on this developing story. coming up, a mother and four children are pulled over at gunpoint by police in the case of mistaken identity. h back pai. and a choice. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. honey, you did it! baby laughs!

who's more excited about back to school savthe ladies?ples? these guys? or these guys? when you get guaranteed low prices on everything you buy the most, everybody gets excited! staples. make more happen for less. two weeks ago in texas a mother was pulled over by police and handcuffed in front of the four young kids in her car. the stop was reportedly in response to a 911 call about someone waving a gun out of the car window of a beige or tan colored vehicle. barber's car is burgundy red. so case of mistaken identity.

>> keep walking backwards. put your hands on your head. >> what is wrong? >> my kids. >> they're 6 and 8 and what are we doing? >> hold on a second, okay. >> what is going on? oh, my god. >> while the mother's pleas are heart wrenching to hear what happened moments later is almost impossible to watch. >> gun down. gun down. >> i -- >> yeah, sorry. >> because, so, let me say, we don't, we can't prosecute this. this is not a case or any, no

one is killed in this interaction, but as we are talking about trust and you can hear her saying you are going to terrify my children. and then guns down. gun pointed up and then the baby coming out of the car with his hands. i mean, now we watch it and the notion of trust is violated at such a core level. >> i guess my response is partly because knowing that your hands up are means nothing. so to see that little boy get out of the car and an image that we now associate with michael brown is really jarring. that he's not safe. but it's to the larger point of trust and creating a sense of trust amongst african-americans with the state and with police officers. starting with the desmond tutu clip was recently important because we i did work and last time i was on with tom and what does it mean for a group of

african-americans in this case never to have had any sense of real reconciliation with the state for racial injustice. racial discrimination and racial housing and, obviously, talking about slavery and segregation and the 2008 apology. i applauded it. the timing was really curious and we also had the election of the first african-american president and that way kind of overshadowed the potency when people demanded clinton to apologize. it was seen as maybe a catalyst and clinton eventually backed away from that. i want to say an apology meant something with the congress did it, it didn't have the teeth to create a more sustainable racial justice movement in america. >> i also talked about the senate apologizing for never passed the dire anti-lynching bill which happened literally four to six weeks before her hurricane katrina occurs and the

federal response. here you had an apology and an acknowledgment of the senate's failure to have brought racial justice at the turn of the century, like just, you know, at the threshold of another injustice that ends up being perpetrated. >> you can't apologize for things that are ongoing. you have to stop doing them first. going back to this video what is most striking to me the state brutalizing black women in that way every day. we see brute luizations in the most extreme foremamat when the is a gun drawn on a person. every time a person goes in and feels like they're damaging their children. every time that we have, going back to the foreclosure crisis and all of the irresponsible borrowers and many of these were black women. something we didn't talk about. >> irresponsible lenders. >> all the black women that have done too much with their loans through, we brutalize black

people by policy in ways every single day that are less extreme than killing us. and we need to have some understanding of that. and the fact that the kid knew to raise his hands getting out of the car. that he knew because this wasn't his first interaction with a brutal state. >> some of the more appalling analysis that have emerged post michael brown. when you encounter the police, you just have to, you know, back up and you have to say sir and we see this mother driving down the street in a road that i presume that if she was a taxpayer, she has paid taxes on. as well as -- and she is stopped. she is saying. what is happening? then we learned at every point there are guns on her. she is being handcuffed in front of her children. >> this conversation is so difficult for me to swallow

because this hasn't happened to my community. and in general the police are our friends and white people who look at them as our friends and we know and when i think about i can drive down the street and a cop tails me and i'm not afraid they're going to put a gun to my child. >> you're going to get a ticket. >> when i think about the first night in ferguson, saturday night, not sunday night. the cops came with dogs that first night. peacefully protesting that first, before the tear gas. before the rioting and looting, the cops came with dogs to a black community. >> i was going to say, know that history. >> we know that history. when i think about this as a white person, i have to challenge white people to check our privilege and check our power and when we see things like this. when i see 59% of white people, right? we have to have the conversation amongst ourselves of how are we contributing to this problem? how are we part of this problem? how can we help resolve this problem because this doesn't happen to us.

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[announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. >> when this is over, i'm going to go in my son's room, my black son who wears his pants sagging, wears his hat to the side, got tattoos on his arm. that's my baby. >> that's captain ron johnson speaking at the gathering of ferguson residents. his is a testimony meant to build trust by emphasizing similarity. you can trust me, because i'm like you. the necessary strategy because of the racial dissimilarity of the population of the town of ferguson is 67%

african-american, only 3 of ferguson's 53 police officers are african-american. nationwide, the thin blue line is often between black and white communities. 29 cities have five times the percentage of white police officers as residents in the community they police. it's a stark demographic reality that can make it more difficult to build trust. shayla, how much of a barrier, imperically. how much of a barrier is race to the building even interpersonal trust government institutions. >> when we turn to the data as far as black americans, clearly, this ruests in the history eand that distrust manifest itself as trust, distrust in whites. so, what this means for representation, whether it be in a police force or even thinking about institutions for which people elect representatives, this is something that becomes of a major concern, especially

even in the political arena. >> can i just add to that point. paul butler wrote a really good piece in the "new york times" professor at georgetown and also member of african-american forum, not only race, which is a big part of it, but the presence of female officers. the 12% of u.s. police force that are women, but when women are police officers the level of regression and the level of complaints decreased. what would it call if there were african-american women police officers in ferguson. think about gender and the way this thin blue line male aggression and patriarchy and not only in terms of who the victims are and gender and race operate together to create a police state. >> we should be very careful with this diversity framework. >> yeah, of course. >> exactly. >> this is --

>> this is the story out of ferguson is like, yeah, diversity does not fix it. >> certainly a wonderful and important thing is having more diverse police sources, but not for nothing, most of the graduating classes going back several years now of nypd are majority/minority. majority of people and that's happening in large police forces around the country. because since the late '90s this is the answer. we need to diversify our police forces. if the policy remains that whoever the police officer is that walking down the street in the middle of the street is grounds for police interacting with you. if it's -- if policing is still rooted in certain communities, we have to be super aggressive because they are moments away from gang violence. as long as federal money continues to pump into police forces to have gang task forces that operate without accountability and militarize them. as long as those things are the case, whether the police officer

are black, white, purple, green, we'll have this problem. >> this point feels like such an aspect. some observer is the presence of captain johnson initially felt like a general onray showing up in the streets and put down the guns. that's not what happened. the tear gas and the militarized police response and the curfew show up after. there is also the sean bell counterexample where there is also black officers involved in these kind of shootings. so, it does feel to me like part of the trust problem is about, is about the uniform, not just the body within it. >> i think there was a sense that many people could come into a community and calm it down and they couldn't. where there is a politician. >> it wasn't the people that needed to be calmed down. >> so, there was this lie to themselves, we could go and speak to them and they will calm

down but, in fact, people wanted it continue to piece it together. even until last night and today, they continue. i think it should continue. our first amendment and in our constitution and we should be supporting those having grievances and uplifting those voices. i think until we have as kai said a dismantling of our police department in a way we policed from a policy line on down, we'll continue to have aggression and continue to have police shootings and people very upset with the police officers and that conversation has to begin now. >> it's the footprint thing. how do we increase that footprint. every time i come up i interviewed a 16-year-old girl who had four priors for rioting because he got in a shouting match. >> thank you to shayla, michael also kai wright. now, we're going it be right back with a final note on ferguson, but, first, there is some good news this week.

it is from another city that has been plagued by violence against its youth. chicago. but, the story today is about the jackie robinson west all-stars from chicago's south side who could become the first all african-american team to win the little league world series today when they represent the u.s. against south korea. the all-stars advanced to the final after defeating a team from las vegas. the chicago team has captivated their home town and nerdland and win parade to welcome them home on wednesday. until then we say go all-stars! we'll be right back. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. peanuts! peanuts! crowd cheers!

the best way for us to get peace is for everybody to help to make sure that everybody gets home safe tonight at 12:00 and

gets a good solid five hours of sleep before they get up tomorrow morning and that we are going to. >> that was missouri governor jay nixon announcing the i am poe significance of a midnight curfew and the reaction of the citizens. that that did not result or curve protesters civil lib better teas heightened tensions and exacerbated a community feeling silenced by their leaders. in the nights following the i am poe significance, it seemed no one could rest. police responded with tear gas and arrest. each day, the peaceful protests gave way to after dark police actions that made it impossible to sleep in ferguson even for those watching from the comfort of their homes, the breath-taking scenes of action in an american city made it hard to turn off the coverage and go to bed. it was horrifying and scary and,

frankly, exhausted. and on wednesday, attorney general eric holder came to ferguson and in an interesting parallel, one of the first questions that he asked captain ron johnson was whether he was getting enough rest. >> the last time i talked to you your wife said that you were not getting enough rest. are you getting a little bit more? >> captain johnson responded with exhaustion made him forget about his 26th wedding anniversary the night before. as they parted, holder urged johnson once more. >> keep up the good work. >> thank you. >> and get a little rest. >> i will. >> that direction to get a little bit of rest sounds very different. no one wants to take a flight

with a sleepy pilot, have an operation performed by a sleepy surgeon or face police in a riot gear if they have not had a good night sleep. but acknowledging the need to rest for an individual is not the same thing as collectively being asleep to injustice. is to make sure that you get five hours of sleep, it sounded to many that he was asking them to put their legitimate grievances to bed. when attorney general told captain johnson to get to rest, it sounded more like an offer of help. there's a lesson here for those of us who hope to see the moment of unrest in ferguson become a movement for justice. sustain na built requires work. you must also take moments of self-renewal. those who move mountains must

also pause to catch their breath and it's okay to pause. it is necessary to sleep. it is right to renew. but when one pauses, the movement itself carries forward. >> no justice, no peace! >> no justice, no peace! >> that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now it's time for weeke s "weekends with alex witt." >> a powerful earthquake rocked the napa valley. we'll talk to an expert of earthquakes to see if this will lead to more he earthquakes in the future. >> also, the message of michael brown's family as they prepare to bury the teenager. what happened the day of the shooting and how reliable are witness accounts and how they

might be used in front of a grand jury. we'll hear from a former aide to attorney general eric holder. don't go anywhere. we will be right back. l like th. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled... ...copd maintenance treatment... ...that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells,... you can get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. sfx: blowing sound. does breathing with copd...

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[ laughs ] [ male announcer ] hold on. it's manwich. a west coast wake-up call. a quake has left tens and thousands of people without power and some homes on fire. the question is, will there be after shocks? the latest in a live report. these are individuals who have killed thousands, beheadings, executions, sold women into slavery. they are going to continue to do that because they believe they are winning. >> are they looking to bring their brand of terror to america? why u.s. officials are even more concerned today about isis. healing in ferguson, missouri. we'll hear from michael brown's grandfather and what answers he's still waiting for. and rand paul is on the road to