another hostage steven sotloff releasing a video to isis. >> please do not hold him for something he has no control over. i ask you to spare his life. and we're also learning new details about american jihadist douglas mccain fighting for isis. coming up here, pentagon spokesman admiral john kirby as the u.s. weighs their sights on isis targets in syria. >> not just the united states government but many governments are concerned about these foreign fighters leaving their shores, going over there, getti getting radicalized trained and then coming back. plus, romney and ryan, paul ryan drops cold water on mitt. >> i would help his campaign if

that was the most effective way for me to help him. >> good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. a heartfelt thanks from theo curtis after he is released after being held for two years in syria. i'm joined by anchor of bbc world news director and senior fellow for the women and foreign policy and contributor to the atlantic defense one. welcome both. first of all, the brits have a big role to play in this. first of all, they are vulnerable. we've seen david cameron returning from vacation even as president obama did not and addressing the whole issue of british jihadis.

>> that is going to have to be discussed by parliament but we saw what happened a year ago when we had a vote in the british parliament and it didn't go the way that the white house wanted and a lot of people felt that they were being rushed into trying to take action and it didn't work out for them. the british public is going to be a lot more skeptical but you're right about the radicalization. it's a much bigger problem than it is here. conservative estimates are 500 british jihadi. there are more muslims from britain fighting for jihad than there are fighting in the british army. that's an indication of how much of a problem it is. >> that whole debate in parliament where the whip count was misjudged and they voted against assad because of the chemical weapons use was what turned the tide on the president's thinking. as you've been reporting, gail,

there's a great deal of debate within the white house as to what to do. >> right. and as you've been talking about for more than a year, this is a debate that has been going on. on one side you have the regime versus we're going to have to be dragged in from the united states and much of europe. they did not want to have to go in on this conflict, the ghost of conflict past hangs over very heavy every discussion about syria. the discussion now is what can you do? people were arguing forearming moderates two years ago and really the worry was, once you got dragged in, it would be a slippery slope and now we see that the cost of inaction also has a price. >> the war weariness, all of the second guessing of tony blair being too close to george bush and getting to the iraq war, i mean, there's even less of a constituency. >> yes. we saw this and it's really hard to discuss all of this, andrea,

without going back to 2003 and the invasion of iraq and just how much resentment there was. we had the biggest peace time march against the invasion of iraq that britain has ever seen and people were adamantly opposed to that invasion. they are now very skeptical about further engagement in the middle east. >> what is the argument about the threat to the homeland? because we hear it both ways. we hear some kind of terror, former officials and current officials arguing that there really is a threat to the homeland, certainly europe more immediately than the united states. but you have westerners. now we see this american jihadi. we don't know how many there are but i'm told that there are up to 100 americans in the isis force in syria. >> that we know of. eric holder gave a really interesting speech in july that didn't get a lot of attention in norway and that the united

states and europe had to work together to figure out what this threat was going to mean. and i think it's going to be really hard for us to tune out what is happening even though the numbers are staggering. 200 dead. basically, the equivalent of college station in texas dead. that's basically new york city and for a long time we haven't really had to contend with what that war means for the u.s. and i think the tragic death of jim foley and now the death of the young man who was apparently fighting with isis has really shown that this is not a war that is going to stay abroad forever. >> and we've seen again today the appeal from sotloff's mother -- steven sotloff's mother. the fact is that curtis was released by the al nusra front with pressure as well as some of the other jihadis.

>> and those holding steven sotloff are from a different organization. it's an indication of how different the engagement will be today than it will be a year from now. they are using child fighters and putting them in training camps. does america want to be in a position of bombing those training camps and finding child fighters there? this is exponentially harder today to deal with today than it was two or three years ago. >> katty and gayle, it's great to have both of you. thank you for being here. almost exactly a year ago president obama asked for congressional approval, based on what had happened in great britain, to launch air strikes against syria rather than ordering air strikes on his own. >> our military has positioned assets in the region. the chairman of the joint chiefs has informed me that we are prepared to strike whenever we

choose based on what i am convinced is our national security interest. i'm also told that it's long rooted not just in our military mite but by the people and for the people. and that's why i've made a second decision. i will seek authorization for the use of force in congress. >> and congress has still not acted on that request. just ignored it. wanting nothing to do with an unpopular vote. has the white house clearly expected. but that was a fateful decision, affecting key allies in the region, especially the persian gulf. i'm joined by rear admiral john

kirby. thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> we know that there is an alertness over syria, planes manned and unmanned. that is not without risk. why do the surveillance, if there is a possible decision for air strikes? >> that's getting into intelligence matters. whenever you are considering military action, you want to get as much situational awareness as possible. that's one of the reasons we stepped up our flights over iraq to begin with, to help us get a hold on this threat by isil. >> as we know, there was a rescue mission. when that rescue mission took off, they did not meet resistance from syrian air defenses. syria has a robust air defense system, russian financed. what is the speculation as to why the assad regime did not stop those planes from going in? >> that was a very carefully planned mission, very quietly

planned for obvious reasons. it was exceptionally well executed and i wouldn't get into the details beyond that. >> in terms of isis, their border has disappeared so the argument is how do you get at isis without going into syrian territory in northern syria? >> well, let's take that apart a little bit. get into syria. i think we all recognize, secretary hagel, chairman dempsey, that there's no way to address isil without doing it regionally. the sanctuary they have there, the training, resources that they have there. we're looking at this from a regional perspective. that doesn't mean that the military option is the only option or best option. certainly an option available for the president. but we recognize that this regional threat has to be dealt with and, frankly, that doesn't give people the media see that they want but in iraq and syria,

in iraq we have a government forming. in syria, we have an assad regime that is doing nothing but depriving its own citizens of rights and liberty itself and that's a problem. so isil and terrorist groups like that have been able to take advantage of the insecurity, instability inside syria to grow and to fester. >> what do we know about other americans like douglas mccain who are fighting with isil or isis? >> we're trying to find out a lot more, clearly. we know dozens and dozens of americans are potentially becoming radicalized and going over and fighting with groups like isil. and that's worrisome enough. and it's mostly a law enforcement each. they are working hard to understand this. when we talk about the potential immediacy, whether it's the united states or any other

western nation. >> there's a new video appeal by shirley sotloff, the mother of steven sotloff. let me just play this a little bit more for you. >> okay. >> steven has no control over the actions of the u.s. government. he's only a journalist. i've always learned that you can grant amnesty. i ask you to please release my child. >> what more can we do to try to get this man home and the others, an american woman who is an aide worker? >> what i can tell you is that we never lose work on this, as a government, not just as a military but we never lose focus on those americans being held by terrorists. that's why we executed that rescue attempt because we just don't lose focus. while we can't talk about the

ways tra we' ways that we're trying to stay focus on it, i can assure you we haven't lost focus on him or the other hostages. >> and paying ransom through proxies, as the other european countries except for the u kck? >> all that is going to do is encourage more kidnappings and put more money in their pockets. it does nothing but cause more americans to be in future danger. so it's a policy we stand by. >> and how could the uae take off from abu dhabi and refuel and rearm in egypt and strike islamist targets in libya, getting involved in a potential civil war that we've been hoping would not explode without american intelligence picking it up? >> well, i won't talk about intelligence and what we knew or

didn't know. we know that they conducted this strike. >> and we really know that we are just winking and nodding? >> i won't get into that. but we don't believe that kind of violent action is helpful inside libya. we understand there's been instability there. we want it to be resolved peacefully, through politics, not violence. added strikes is not going to help that situation. >> admiral kirby, a pleasure. thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. now to breaking news out of virginia where a military fighter jet has crashed 150 miles southwest of d.c. the fighter bomber was on a training mission heading for the base in massachusetts to new orleans when it went down. at this point, it's not clear why the plane went down or whether the pilot safely ejected. the pilot made a call about an in-flight emergency. it was not carrying ammunitions. the commander said in a statement "we are hopeful that the pilot is okay and the pilot

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and today we're learning a lot more about the american jihadi who fought and was killed working for isis. douglas mcauthur mccain was born in illinois and he was described as a joker and always smiling. he was arrested nine times and converted to islam and began posting his propaganda on social

media. he wrote to an isis member, "i will be joining you guys soon." the best-selling author, wes moore is joining us. this is an extraordinary instance. he's one of potentially 100, which i'm told by intelligent sources, who may be fighting there at any one time with isis. what does this tell you about the way that their appeal has expanded because from his tweets he doesn't really seem to understand the mission or have any intellectual grasp of what he's part of? >> well, i think it shows this dynamic of actively recruiting americans and brits into this fight is not a new phenomena. we've had a long history of this. but i think what it also does show is the danger of this indoctrination and the danger of

this radicalization. if these things are not dealt with and contained early, then you allow that propaganda to assist in the mainstream throughout social media, et cetera, you will find people who are susceptible. you will find people whose minds are easy malleable. >> he didn't seem to know what he was getting into or who he was fighting for or against. the threat has, of course, sparked this debate in the white house and outside and at the pentagon and most notably not in the rest of the country because we're not seeing congress returning to debate this issue as rachel maddow was pointing out last night. what is the risk of air strikes, of an air campaign? it's not without risk. we've seen in the past pilots shot down. >> you have that risk of pilots shot down. the additional risk means what

exactly happens once the air strikes are complete? two dynamics have to exist. you have to be dealing with an enemy that you're not just doing the kinetic operations but the nonkinetic operations that are being done on the side in order to bring both sides to a table and i don't know if we have that in this situation. in the same situation, the other thing that makes air strikes work, what comes next? what form of entity is then going to take on a form of responsibility and both of those two situations, both of those two scenarios, i think we have a very difficult time looking at how we have a long-term sustainable asset that we can then lean on and rely on once the strikes are complete. >> and in fact in this case, if we were to wipe out isis, we would be strengthening assad. we'd be fighting his war for him, which raises the question, was he deliberately not launching his air defenses when we went against isis in that

rescue mission. >> that's exactly right. just a big debate. the basic advocacy of the situation comes into play. you know, it's interesting, andrea, because you touched on a really important point about how this debate that's taking place in washington right now is about passports, about reintegration and how do we heavily screen people as they are coming back to the united states. the debate can't simply be that. it must be what are we doing to impact this disaffected youth and people within our own communities because we see this with groups not only isis and isil but gang membership inside the united states, other organizations that have found a real niche and finding people that are feeling like they don't belong in a large society and it gives them a sense of ownership and sense of family that they can then exploit. if there's one thing that history can show us, both domestically and internationally, if a person does not care about their own life, they probably don't care

about yours either. >> thanks so much, wes moore, for your unique perspective on all of this, having served in afghanistan in two tours. thank you very much. >> thank you. much more ahead right here on msnbc. but first, could thpetro porosh vladimir putin meet face-to-face. and then putin denied any direct control over the pro-russian separatists in eastern ukraine insisting that kiev negotiated instead with the militants for a cease-fire. more than 2,000 people have been killed since the fighting began in april. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would

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welcome back. could there really be a romney revival? the gop says no for now. >> this is time we gave a lot of thought to when early on i decided we're not going to be running this time. and again, we said, look, i have had the chance of running. i didn't win. someone else has a better chance than i do and that's what we believed and that's why i'm not running. circumstances can change but i'm not going to let my head go there. remember that great line from "dumb and dumber". >> so you're telling me i have a chance? >>. >> there you go. that's one of a million. >> that's not zero. that was mitt romney. joining me now is chris cillizza and eugene robinson. chris, what would you put the odds at of a mitt romney return?

>> i would put the odds of making a dumb and dumber referring to one in a million so these things happen. but, look, i do -- yes, you could parse that, his comments to hugh hugh wet as evidence that the store is open again. i really think -- and from having a lot of conversations with folks about this, i think that mitt romney is not, under any circumstance we could imagine, seriously considering running for president. remember, he was a nominee and ran a very tough campaign that -- he spent $44 million of his own money four years before that. i don't think a 12-year commitment is what he's looking for. >> eugene robinson, mitt romney was -- this is what was said on cnbc on "squawk box." >> i would drive mitch campaign's budget if he thought that would be the most effective way for me to help him. >> does that mean you have to

wait for him to decide what you're going to do? >> no. look, i would love to see mitt run again. he's pretty emphatic that he's not going to. >> is that why you're able to say that? >> no. seriously, i would love to see him run again. >> is he the answer to hillary clinton if she becomes the presumptive nominee? >> well, the dumb and dumber reference -- you can make a "dumb and dumber reference." second, i think chris cillizza is basically right. look at the field. the sfeer about mitt romney says something about the republican field. it ain't looking so great, what is what it says. >> the most active support group is for rand paul. would it be scary to some part of the republican

establishment -- >> exactly. if he is the clear front-runner, one can't imagine the republican establishment, you know, a grateful nation of republican establishment saying, you've got to come and run. >> to the extent of limiting the primary debates, they are not going to let the free for all of 21 or 22 dates take place again. >> look, gene is right in a scenario like that. where it looks like some of the establishment is not comfortable. i would argue two things. one, i think there are people who would probably be on that list who would be willing to step forward, maybe circumstances would be that they wouldn't be able to do it but marco rubio, let's see how his campaign turns out. scott walker if he wins re-election this fall. chris christie. there's a lot going on. but those are the kind of people, jeb bush, rick perry that they might turn to.

the second point i'll make, i'm less convinced than i ever have been before that the party establishment could stop going. the internet, the growth of libertarian within the country. i'm less convinced that mitt romney could be -- or anyone could be parachuted in to sort of block what the bigwigs in washington in the republican party don't want. >> gone, fair point. social media. >> it's a fair point and it certainly would be more difficult and chris may be right. however, look at the republican primary season so far. the establishment hasn't done half bad. >> true. >> and the insurgents haven't done that well. >> the empire strikes back. >> that's right. so, you know, it would be an interesting battle. >> thank you very much. eugene robinson, chris cillizza.

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a fair shooting outside of las vegas across the border in arizona at a gun range, a huge tourist attraction for adults and children, is sending shockwaves across the country. a 9-year-old accidently shot her

instructor. the obvious question, what the help was that child doing with the uzi in the first place. this shows the final moments. >> keep that held in. otherwise, the gun won't fire. okay? right there. go just leak that. take one shot. all right. all right. pull on it. >> the instructor, 39-year-old charles vacca switched the weapon from single-shot mode to automatic. one of the bullets struck vacca in the head. he was air lifted and later announced dead at a nevada hospital. joining me now is jim cavanaugh. jim, it sort of defies

commonsense. >> we need to have a change and the gun ranges need to accept the challenge to make a change. the small children do not have the wrist strength and the lower arm strength to be able to control these weapons designed originally for military. >> tell us about a uzi and what kind of recoil, what kind of strength would you need to control the kickback from that weapon when you shoot it? >> andrea, great point. uzi invented the gun. he was a german-born israeli. it was made for military, light infantry, law enforcement security. secret service has used the gun for years. it's easily concealable under their jackets. but because of the nature of the design of the weapon, it doesn't

have a long hold for leak a normal rifle or some machine gun. it's very short. it has a pistol grip and, of course, when it's put on full automatic mode, as this submachine gun -- what it is, it's a submachine gun, it's going to move. small children shouldn't be shooting submachine guns. if you're going to teach small children for game or target, it should be the small 22 arri.22 >> why would the instructor have put it on automatic? >> he was trying to give the child an opportunity to fire a submachine gun. i think we ought to fire a submachine gun. does a child really need that experience? there's not much need for it. it's designed for military service. the submachine guns, let's keep those for adults to shoot or someone certainly a lot older

than 9. it's a tragedy for charles vacca. he was running the range. it's just a tragic mistake in judgment and i hope we don't ever have to see another one. >> and should the instructor have been standing behind her instead of next to her? >> exactly. great point. normally you would stand behind the person and wrap your arms around them. but really you shouldn't be doing it at all because the child's too small. with a novice shooter, range instructors will normally get behind and try to reach over if they have to help them hold the gun. but when you have to get into that mode, you ought to reassess whether you even should be doing it at all. >> i once did a story for "nightly news" on sales and the control of sales of surplus of m-16s and went to an army base in ohio and i just recall how -- how strong the recoil was against my shoulder.

i mean -- >> right. >> i'm fairly strong. these are powerful weapons. >> right. uzis frequently come as .9 mill meters and fire from an open bolt. i'm not sure which model this was. it could have been a closed bolt or open bolt but the open bolt model slams shut. so it's even a little bit harder to control because of the force of the way the bolt keeps slamming against the gun and this short grip, it just becomes a recipe for disaster with a small child. i hope we can change and never have to see one of these again. >> jim cavanaugh, a terrible tragedy and we really hope that this leads to serious changes in the evaluations at some of these gun ranges, at all of the gun ranges around the country. a very popular tourist attraction. thank you, jim. preparing for the big one. after sunday's earthquake hit

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>> all of this has led to calls for the kind of early warning system that japan and mexico have engineered. at the university of california, berkeley, the shake alert system detected the quake ten seconds before it happened. this could become a base for a government effort. i'm joined by richard allen, the direct to have of berkeley's seismic lab. i know you're working with the geological survey and there is government interest in what you're doing. >> yeah. we've been working on this for a number of years. the research actually started a decade ago at this point. we've been running a system since 2012 and it's performing very well, as demonstrated in this napa earthquake over the weekend. we're ready at this point and ready to roll this out and turn it into a full-blown public

system so everybody could get a warning on their system. all we're missing is the investment to actually do this. >> now, the investment is huge. what would the cost be? >> i'm not sure that i would call it huge. we've heard about the damage perhaps reaching $1 billion. the cost of rolling out the west coast early system is $120 million over five years. so that's the cost to build it and run it for the first five years in california, oregon, and washington could then be getting a warning. if we could get the funding, we'd have the system up and running within two careers, hopefully before the next earthquake. >> i read that l.a. could get a longer warning, perhaps 40 to 60 seconds. why is there a disproportionate amount of time that different regions could be warned? maybe you could explain that. >> sure. it's not that l.a. can get more warnings than san francisco. the amount of warning that you get depends on where you're

located relative the epicenter of the earthquake. the napa earthquake was just north of the bay area. that's why there was about 5 seconds in berkeley, more in san francisco and in oakland maybe about 15 seconds of warning in san jose. the really big earthquakes, magnitude 8 earthquakes, if they start on the san andreas fault, then you could have about a minute's warning. you get the most warning for the earthquakes that do the most damage. >> do you think it's necessary to reconsider some of the structures? we've seen what japan has done with tokyo, which is remarkable, how little damage there was after the big earthquake there. napa has all of these wonderful homes and historic homes, victorian structures that we saw that were near collapse. it's really the character of that community, though. >> absolutely.

there's no question, earthquake early warning is it not a panacea. it's not going to prevent poor buildings being damaged. it's about bringing marine knch and trains to a standstill. it's about protecting people. >> and are there ways to retrofit old structures so people -- wooden homes that are so lovely and the charm of that whole area? >> absolutely. you can retrofit buildings when it comes to certainly homes, without question you can retrofit. when it comes to larger commercial buildings, it becomes a little more complicated and the owners have to decide, is it better to retrofit the building or is it better to rebuild. for example, here on the berkeley campus, the university has been investing in improving its buildings. many buildings have been retrofit and some buildings have been vacated as a result. so we have to take

responsibility. we know the earthquakes are coming. we have to make sure our buildings are safe and we have to make use of new technologies like earthquake early warning as they become available. >> richard allen from uc berkeley, thank you so much for being with us. fascinating stuff. thank you. >> thank you. 15-year-old tennis ace cici bellis was a great match since anna kournikova. she had no plans to televise her match on court 6. the large crowd grew and grew. bellis gained quite a few fans for her second match. look at that.

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the st. louis county grand jury is meeting today to continue examine evidence in the shooting of 18-year-old michael brown. the jury began looking at the case last week. it could be mid-october before all of the evidence is reviewed. an audio has emerged that, if authenticated, could become a key piece of evidence in the case. ron allen is joining me now. thanks very much for being with us. let's talk about the grand jury and this audiotape. what do we know? >> well, this is the first time the grand jury is going to be hearing evidence in the case. as you said, they could go until october. the process here is that they meet once a week. it's a regular grand jury and this is one of many cases that they are probably considering. so the prosecutor has said that they want to do this thoroughly, deliberately, and not be rushed. so it's going to take some time. now, the audiotape is a bit more -- well, it's very dram mat

te dramatic to listen to. it sounds like you can hear six gunshots and then a pause of 2 1/2 to 3 seconds and then four more gunshots. this was recorded while the witness was making a video text message on a computer. he lives not far from the scene of the shooting. so it's an incredible coincidence that he would be doing that at the same time that this was happening outside his door. again, we have not independently authenticated this. the fbi is trying to validate this and, if so, it will become part of the evidence. essentially, it's a very dramatic moment and for the investigators, they say it's only one piece of the puzzle. they are going to look at all kinds of witness statements to look at what happened. ten shots on this tape. we believe the police recovered 12 shell casings at the scene. the brown family says that he was shot six times and both the

family and others are trying to use this bit of audio to argue that it further validates their position. and again, the bottom line, andrea, is that this is going to take some time and require patience in the community. there's a lot of grievances that have been brought to the surface for the past few weeks. things are calm and peaceful but there's a lot that is under the surface and i think a lot of people are very angry about what happened and, at this moment, things are calm but maybe not again depending on what happened going forward. a lot of people say that if this officer is not indicted, there could be trouble here. that's a decision that could come in the next couple of months. when you talk to people about the case, the officer says that he was -- the police say that he was physically assaulted, that he got out of the car and that brown was charging at him and he opened fire to protect himself. if that's true, he's probably not going to be indicted. on the other hand, some people say that brown was trying to surrender and it was unnecessary

force. we'll see what the bottom line is. >> and how the evidence is presented and what kind of grand jurors are impanelled has an impact on it. the cost for all of those people who live in that corridor during the protests, couldn't get to work, schools were closed. there's been a real economic burden on everyone involved. >> reporter: it is. a lot of the stores in the area where there was the most violence are small businesses, mom and pop stores, convenience stores, barber shops, those kinds of businesses. yes, they are hurting because for two weeks they were basically shut down and then for a longer period of time people were not going to those neighborhoods. there's little compensation for them and there's concern -- there is a measure before the city council here to try to get some funds to them. i think it's been approved or the county government. but, yes, people are hurting. school was closed for 11 days. they got back to class a couple of days ago.

so normalcy but, yes, it's been a traumatic event for this community. >> those wounds don't heal easily, the loss of his life. thank you very much, ron allen. that does it for us on "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online @mitchellreports. "ronan farrow daily" is next. and it's a good time to see for yourself. this labor day, check out great lease offers on chevy's award-winning, fuel efficient lineup. just announced, get additional $500 bonus to lease this 2014 chevy malibu lt for around $189 per month. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. it's time to bring it out in the open. it's time to drop your pants for underwareness, a cause to support the over 65 million people

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the united states taking aim at bombing a new country in the middle east. if at first you don't succeed. right? a u.s. air campaign in iraq may soon be extended into syria. >> isis is on the move. >> isis is taking ground in syria. >> the ranks of isis include many westerners, including people who are converts to islam, who are just like any other american. >> isis is a group that kills americans but also has some americans fighting alongside it. >> 1:00 p.m. on the east coast,

10:00 a.m. on the west. as one u.s. hostage comes home, the mother of another journalist is pleading for his life. shirley sotloff, his mother, spoke out to the terror group's leader directly. >> i ask you to please release my child. as a mother, i ask your justice to be merciful and not punish him for something that he has no control over. i ask you to use your authority to spare his life and to follow the example set by the prophet mohammed who protected people of the book. i want what every mother wants, to live to see her children's children. >> we also know another american, a woman, is being held hostage by isis in syria. that