steve schmitt, thank you very much for joining us tonight. chris hayes is up next. "hardball" starts right now. turn coats, let's play "hardball". >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with those dozens of americans turn thing coat and joining islamic murderers in syria and iraq. next we get to the republican strategy for taking up the u.s. senate. turn every democratic opponent into barack obama. then we get to the stinking hamburger plan to skip u.s. tax laws by heading off it canada. finally the death that comes of handing a loaded automatic weapon to a 9-year-old and deafening silence from the national rifle association. you know, the ones who say guns don't kill people, people do.

in this case, those of you hiding in the corner, it was a gun, an uzi that killed. as i said, we start with the murky change of heart and change of allegiance that drives a small but ruthless bunch of haters to join the murderous ranks of isis and other anti-american islamist terror groups based in syria. let's get a fix as best we can on who they are and what they are dog screaming for blood in far away land, richard engel is chief important to correspondent for nbc news. evan kohlmann is an nbc analyst. richard, they aren't going away a different way of life, they are going away to kill americans. yesterday nbc news learned douglas mcarthur mccain was killed fighting for isis. now a second american turn coat killed in the same incident with mccain. today pentagon spokesman john kirby told andrea mitchel that the threat from isis in the form of the western recruits is serious. let's listen. >> we s and dozens of americans are potentially becoming radicalized and fighting with groups like isil.

that's worrisome enough. when we talk about the potential immediate sift threat of isil, that's one of the factors we are talking about. this idea that foreign fighters could go over there, get radicalized, get trained, then come back it their homeland. whether it is united states or any other western nation. >> we can't even decide what to call this thing, isil or isis. these young men from america of different backgrounds have gone over to join it. how do we explain the turning of coat, turning of allegiance, not just to leave our culture but to become american killers. >> because this group which doesn't call itself isis or isil, calls itself the islamic state or caliphate, doesn't see the world in terms of american versus britain versus syria or iraqi. it sees it as muslims,

particularly their brand of islam, which is really a death cult. it is rejected by the vast majority of muslims around the world and everybody else. so they are calling on supporters to come and join this little state that they have carved out in collapsed parts of syria and iraq. and to join this uber national ultra national caliphate of theirs. rejected their nationality, burn their american passports and fight against anyone who is determined to be their enemy. and this is appealing for people. appealing for a certain group of people. maybe 10 or 20 years ago they would have joined a religious cult. gone off and joined the foreign legion. people have trouble with the law. they can't find themselves. they are searching for something greater. and in this case, they are joining a death cult that is advertising itself on the internet. and its little safe zone within iraq and syria.

>> dozens of people are real people, watching the beheading on television, basically, about american webs someone like they were, what's the reaction it being part after cult that does that? they have their hands in this now. >> look to 20-year-old adam dandage last month, arrested trying to go to isis. he told the fbi he was attempting to join isis. but when asked if he was willing to kill americans, he said openly no the fbi, yes, i would kill americans. yes, that is part after religious duty. yes, it is valid. and it is not just isis. you have this young guy from florida who went over and joined al qaeda's official branch in syria, and before he left, he recorded a message in which he was shown tearing apart his u.s. passport, bite awning the bass port, and then issuing a message to barack obama in which he threatened to come back and destroy the united states with bombs and other weapons and said

his compatriots would be behind him. that the organization that just released an american hostage. you can imagine what the isis guys are saying. >> let's good back to the macro questions. united states becoming syria, becoming isis? >> i think pretty soon, frankly. united states authorized surveillance flights over syria. looking for targets. they will find targets. if you ask them to start looking for things, they'll find them. i think of it like if you invite a carpenter or a contractor to your house and you say, i have problems in the basement, you know full well the basement is full of water and you tell them, go down and look in there, he is going to tell you it needs work. now we're doing surveillance flights over there. we are asking them to look for targets. they will find them. . so what do we do next? i think they will start bombing them. the irony on all of this, and i know you will love this, since you followed washington in foreign policy, almost exactly

one year ago to the day we were talking about bombing sir why. but we were going to be bombing syria in order to become bashar al-assad and help rebels push him out of power. now we will bomb isis extremists in order to help bashar al-assad. in one year, the situation changed 180 degrees. >> when we were right? are we right now? right then? is this like they used to say about the pope. he's right, then he changes his mind, he's right. just religious about my religion, but that's an old joke. if we were right to spend all of our effort getting rid of al-assad, which i never understand, i think they were a pain in the butt but a predictable pain in the butt and they were local. now the isis, danger on the street for years now, that the government is always better than the street. now we have the street coming at us. >> so here is the situation. was it right then or is it right now? let's take the first example.

that's the most pressing one. we could be doing this in a few days. in the situation is untenable. you have militant, as evan was saying, not just from isis but thousands of incredibly dangerous people who are very well armed. they are collect taxes, imposing their own kind of sharia law. they are seizing weapons from the iraqi army. they are taking over the air base. they are a danger to anyone, including the united states, right now. can i understand why the united states would want to attack right now. >> richard, we have to be somewhat consistent. assad was never a threat to the united states. >> then i go back to the other example. a year ago when we were talking about bombing the syrians, it was in order to back a moderate opposition and in order to overthrow assad. we never did that. so we didn't do one, which i understand.

assad was never a clear and present danger like these militant groups are, certainly. but once again we are talking about bombing and what i'm pointing out is we are talking about bombing first time against bashar and now with bashar. and it shows how inconsistent our look at syria has been. as the situation changes. >> one consistency is the national interest. we call it the defense department to defend our country. here an interesting column written today. in syria it might be necessary to choose the lesser equal and work with bashar al-assad to detain isis. this may mean for the foreseeable future a regime that committed war crimes, supported by iran and russia. which the west has considerable strategic differences. change would be costly but not as costly as scenario in which isis could use syrian territory from which to mount attacks from

the region and beyond. assad government may be able but is lesser evil than isis and a local one. i've been reading a lot about world war ii again, evan and richard, we all think about world war 2 all the time. we join sides with stalin. stalin, because we thought hitler was a more immediately and frightening threat to the world at that point. >> i understand that -- look, i'm not exactly a friend of the assad regime. i think what they've done to the syrian people is horrific. awful. but i think at a certain point u.s. foreign policy has to focus on certain priorities. one of those priorities is u.s. national security. who is clear and present danger. hezbollah is not a clear and present danger to the politics of the united states or homeland to the united states. it is not an active terrorist threat us to. al-assad is not. his defense network is done. he is not a let it to anyone in the region right now.

i'm not suggesting we should back the regime of bashar al-assad, but i think we have to understand that in terms of the actors in this area of the world that are actually a threat us to, the one that is a threat to us is isis. no doubt about that. >> no doubt. >> can i tell you, chris, how i think this sort of plays out? >> sure, richard. >> if the u.s. starts bombing isis in northern -- in syria, mostly northern syria, and eastern syria. but across a broad part of sir why out of government's control, we start bombing them, what does that mean? it means al-assad gets a pass. we are effectively helping him because we are neutralizing an enemy force. by the way, al-assad was happy to have isis flourish in his country for the last several months. he never attacked them because isis was busy fighting other rebels and new that they have become such a ferocious threat to him and to us, he is quite happy it seems to have the united states come in and clean

up a mess that he was very happy to see ferment in his country. aside from that, if we start doing this, start bombing isis, we give assad a pass. he goats stay, but probably control a smaller state. there will be a bombing campaign in this area of no-man's land. in that band outside of damascus. that is isis stand, if you will. and this continues for a long time. this become a no-man's land, dangerous place. controlled by air strikes while bashar al-assad stays, rehabilitated and gets to keep a somewhat reduced country. that's not an outlook, an sustained long-term plan. >> that's geo politics. i think a lot of americans are bleeding emotionally at the sight of what happened to james poly. we worry about our hostages. our focus is on us. thank you richard engel. thank you evan for your expertise.

coming up. wanting to put a boeing shirt on the back of everyone running in 2014. can mitch mcconnell and scott brown convince their opponent, male or female, are really the president in some costume. plus, calling for a boycott of burger king after the fast-food giant announced it was buying a canadian company and relocating headquarters up north. critics say it is a gimmick to avoid paying american taxes, and it sure looks like it. horror at the gun range. 9-year-old girl firing an uzi, that's an automatic rifle, accidentally killed her instructor after losing control of the rifle. wait until you see the pictures. why was this little girl allowed to use such a weapon? where is the nra right now? i wonder why. they must be embarrass in their awful silence.

the stinky hamburger deal, skipping out on money and the hamburger deal, while think avoid paying taxes. this is "hardball," a place for politics. you make a great team. it's been that way since the day you met. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat,

or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. president obama's lawyers just got a little busier now that another republican is filing a lawsuit against the president. governor bobby jindal of louisiana is suing the obama administration over implementation of the common core education program. in a statement governor jindal says common core is the latest by big government disciples to strip away states rights and put washington, d.c. in control of everything. jindal also has his own score board which i wants backed enthusiastically. could be politics at work here. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." gop strategy to take back the senate in 2014 is clear now. turn your democratic opponent, whoever he or she is, into president obama.

republican senate chalers and incumbents alike are running to be the unobama this year. will it work in mitch mcconnell said in martin's upcoming piece, quote, my favorite year is 1994. took a cardboard cutout of bill clinton on to the stage and defied the democrat to have their make tour take went with it. mcconnell saw his tv ad with an opponent and he lost that fall. secretary of state grimes is turned into a caricature of the current democratic president, barack obama. >> by my standard barack obama has been a disaster for our country. that's what you get for electing someone with no experience. he was only two years into his first job when he started campaigning for the next one.

sound familiar? >> pretty sarcastic. republicans win in november by putting an obama boeing shirt, if you will, on the back of every democrat? author of this great piece this weekend, jonathan, i was going to call you when i read it on line. fabulous, fabulous reporting. really. it is the kind of things that makes politics enjoyable it read. host of the joy reid report. let's talk about what we just showed a tape of. he is the old crusty guy who has been there. all of the assets of office but no one really likes him. will he run almost like isis and syria? he thinks voters will choose him as the less of two evils, jonathan? >> his strategy has been, basically, get the other person to dislike -- sorry, have voters dislike the other candidate more

than they do me. but that's not just this year. that's been mcconnell's m.o. for 30 years, that's how he wins. if you talk to folks that know him well, they will stay candidly, that's part of the reason he's that popular at home and why he is facing a tough race at this point in his career. he never established a positive image. now mcconnell would say, yes, but i won. he told me over and over again. i'm 8-0, 8-0. never lost a race. but the way he wins isn't pretty and that's why he is in the predicament he is in today. his campaign is a one-note campaign. trying to equate his opponent with president obama who is deeply unpopular figure in carol costello. and her campaign is to make the race about one thing too, mitch mcconnell. so you have two candidates making the race about something else and about somebody else.

>> can you argue, the only thing worse than doing anything mitch mcconnell is to be, i just lost mitch mcconnell. i watched strom thurmond become an acceptable figure because he changed over the race of bid. but he survived. people like survivors. at the end of november, election night when we're all covering it, if mitch mcconnell wins, he will find himself slapping on the back and saying good work there, mitch. you did it again. if he loses, he is a loser. i think that's what drives that guy. and a lot of these people in politics, you win, you win. you lose, you lose. >> the thing with mitch mcconnell, which struck me about the clip you played, he said his favorite year is '94. but the more appropriate analogy is 1998. unfortunately for the republican party what happened in that election is that their unpopularity measured against bill clinton and at that time they were trying to impeach clinton which is highly unpopular and right now, yes, president obama is incredibly unpopular in kentucky.

he is trying to use it to his best advantage but partly because of the mcconnell strategy. he has made it really difficult for republican senate candidates to run saying their opponent would rubber stamp the obama agenda. the obama agenda is dead in the water for two years. he hasn't been able to pass anything major. the last huge piece of legislation that they nationalize the election on is health care. they backed off because in part in lost its salience and in particular in kentucky, the kentucky version is popular. the third part is if he is running against a brand, and alice grimes has a family brand which in a sense trumps any attempt to paste obama on to her an she resisted doing it as have most southern democrats that are in good shape. i tried to get michelle nunn if she would support health care and she wouldn't tell me. democrats in the south aren't allowing themselves to be attached to president obama.

>> you are betting on her? >> i think that allison grimes has a very good chance. i think the only problem she will have is that democrats in general are more demoralized and less likely to turn out regardless of their candidate. >> i agree with everything you said. i think they will run against obama the face, the man. they don't want to talk about obama care, because it is doing well in kentucky. kentucky isn't the only senate race with a gop. republicans are trying to paint all of the democratic candidate as obama. scott brown is in this race now. tying new hampshire democrat shane as incumbent senator to the president he says is pro amnesty, let's watch. >> folks who come here illegally, they just walk across the border. that's wrong. thanks to the pro amnesty policy of president obama and senator we have an immigration crisis on our hand. we respond with compassion. but it is time for us to secure the border once and for all. and tell people who try to come here illegally that we intend to

enforce the law. >> and this ad against mark pryor in arkansas for a conservative group the american crossroads mocks what they call pro obama voting record. >> your next pro word is prior. >> may i have the definition please? >> pryor, washington liberal out of touch with arkansas, voted for obama agenda, 90%. >> may i hear is in a sentence? >> mark pryor was the deciding vote for obama care. >> pryor, o-b-a-m-a. >> close enough. >> well, jonathan, when you saw it in kentucky and reportedly brilliantly, which i recommend everybody loves politics and a lot of progressives will love this too, a well-written piece but point out the dark side of mr. mcconnell. this metastasizing of this just call him obama, i'm telling you, the reason i say this, having done this a million times, come election night around midnight

when the rachel and the rest of us are trying to figure out what happened, everyone will say, if it goes the wrong way, it was obama that sunk this ship. their voting against obama. we will see it in exit poll fess it happens. your thoughts. >> well, chris, forget election night. democrats privately are saying that, if you talk to democratic strategists involved in this year's campaign, they say that their biggest challenge is president obama's own popularity and a lot of state. it is not just deep red state like arkansas and kentucky, places like colorado, iowa, president, where he won twice, not as popular now as he was. and so that is the strategy to tie democratic candidates to the president. but to joy's point, republicans have a more challenge this time than four years ago in 2010. because there is dissatisfaction with the president, but there's not this urgency by conservatives an by independents to stop him and stop harry reid and nancy pelosi.

there's more of a, i think, obama fatigue as one put it to me today. less anger and more fatigue. so you don't see this boil and 2010 style anger this year. and that could be the challenge for republicans is yes, pell are unhappy with obama but not furious and dieing to go to the polls yet. >> joy, you're right on this. the impeachment drives which seems like overkill should have been a censor vote of some kind at the worst. they want to try to knock him out of office and wound up the energizer bunny. all of a sudden bill clinton is back to 1992. picked up 8 years. i'm a kid again. can i do this one. he is always good at that. thank you. >> see you tomorrow on your show. you get a whole hour. up next, when joe met lucy. the oldest woman veteran in the country. i think 114 or something. something like that.

he makes quite a picture with this. you got to watch this coming up. this is "hardball," place for politics. (male announcer) it's happening.

today, more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®, an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® is now available in flextouch® - the only prefilled insulin pen with no push-button extension. levemir® lasts 42 days without refrigeration.

that's 50% longer than lantus®, which lasts 28 days. today, i'm asking about levemir® flextouch. (female announcer) levemir® is a long-acting insulin, used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes and is not recommended to treat diabetic ketoacidosis. do not use levemir® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may cause symptoms such as sweating, shakiness, confusion, and headache. severe low blood sugar can be serious and life-threatening. ask your doctor about alcohol use, operating machinery, or driving. other possible side effects include injection site reactions. tell your doctor about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions. check your blood sugar levels. your insulin dose should not be changed without asking your doctor. get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, swelling of your face, tongue or throat, sweating, extreme drowsiness, dizziness, or confusion. (male announcer) today's the day to ask your doctor about levemir® flextouch.

covered by nearly all health insurance and medicare plans. >> welcome back to "hardball." time now for the side show. remember the video montage we showed you of how president barack obama aged in office. the amount of gray hair he accumulated. david letterman has a suggesting for the president. let's watch. >> i think the president's hair actually is turning a little gray. but luckily, there's some good news here. take a look at this. >> are you going gray and leading the free world? make an executive decision and use just for gray hair for men who are president. . and you're just a heart beat away from tranquility. with new just for men who are vice president bubble bath foam. sold exclusively in the united states capitol parking lot.

>> looked real. next up, oldest living woman to serve in world war ii had one wish. 108-year-old lucy coffee wanted one last trip to washington, d.c. a visit to remember. let's watch what happened. >> how are you? i got a younger friend, when he found out i was going to be seeing you, he asked if he could come down and see. hey, guys. >> here is my buddy that wanted to say hello. say hello to lucy. >> nice to meet you. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> remind me, every time i had a good looking date, some better looking guy would come along. >> you know what i mean? >> yeah. >> vice president and president comes in and everybody drops everything. know what i mean?

i'm the guy who loves you. >> it seems as though the vice president was making everyone's day. he also tweeted a note of congratulations to julia louis-dreyfus. he wrote, a fellow veep with who is also a good friend. >> up next, they have it their way, burger king will have a big tax break for moving head quarters to canada. it's leaving a big smell behind. you're watching "hardball," a place for politics.

the targets included a humvee, supply truck, armored vehicles and building. israel's prime minister declaring victory earlier in a news conference on the open-ended cease-fire with hamas. militant group also claimed victory. and here in the u.s., hurricane marie remaining far from shore but effects are felt along the california coast. rough surf closed two terminals at port of long beach. at least one person has died. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." news of the merger between fast-food giant burger king and doughnut hortons. burger king will buy tim horton's and relocate corporate address to canada, thereby lowering taxes here. a strategy known as corporate inversion, when a u.s. company acquires a foreign-based company in order to relocation abroad reduce duce its tax burden and

boost its profits. it is a tax avoidance tactic that president obama himself has spoken out against. >> if you're doing business here, if you're basically still an american company but simply changing your mailing address in order to avoid paying taxes, then you're not doing right by the country and by the american people. >> that's saying it. burger king denies, of course it would, that lower corporate taxes are the real motive for the deal. mother jones, also an msnbc political analyst. and former mayor of san francisco, willie brown. mayor brown, your thoughts on this. this stinkin idea to sneak out of the united states, sell all of the hamburgers you can here and skip out on responsibilities to the american people. >> chris, we have to watch ourselves on this one. there are some weaknesses in mine and your outrage. i absolutely believe that tax code needs to be changed so as

to avoid any possibility that this could occur. in this case, however, this is a brazilian company. that's what burger king is. several years ago cats from brazil bought burger king. and the company in canada is all about a merger but the home court advantage goes to them because the merger won't get approved. so there are some weaknesses. but we all should be concerned enough to change the tax code so we can eliminate this possibility and the president ought to lead us on it. >> well, it doesn't excite me when some shyster finds out how to beat a tax law. congratulations, you have figured out who to skip taxes. i'm a hamburger fan. burger king has the best hamburger. >> five guys is better. >> they are bigger. but these are made outside. you can tell what it is. it has a good burger. >> analysts say they are getting

tax advantages out of this. but it is part after bigger issue. >> who is denying they are getting a break here. >> but the whole inversion issue, costing taxpayers $20 billion over the next ten years and that's a larger trend with corporations including mcdonald's, microsoft, apple, caterpillar. >> all moving out? >> no. they set up overseas subsidiaries to keep profits off-shore. >> i'm talking about the money they make here. doing what they are doing now makes them equivalent to toyota or other country that get a tax break from not being american. >> corporations are people, but you and i, chris, we can't decide to be based in

lipstonsteen and by another person there to put tax burden is off-shore. . >> corporations aren't people too? >> no, but they are getting the breaks. but it a big issue. president's right to be mad. >> mayor brown, let me ask you about the role played by warren buffett, he has said with his billions, i'm willing to pay a higher tax. now he is underwriting this shift of burger king up to canada to avoid paying taxes. which is it? is he for more progressive taxes for the wealthy or finding ways to get out of paying taxes. >> i have to believe he will have to answer that question frankly himself. but you can't on one end saying with i pay more than my secretary and on the other hand, avoid the possibility of every decision that been made on sharing the tax burden with corporations and with people and now you're figuring out a way not to share that burden. so warren buffett has to explain that and he should explain it and anyone else involve had

should explain it. but keep in mind, warren buffett has been in partnership on other deals with these particular people who own burger king so this is not new for him. this is one that's been on going. >> you know, back when my dad and i talked politics when he was alive, a moderate republican, and he used to say the thing they didn't like about republicans is in bed with big companies. he said those guys betrayed american free enterprise. and i think this is one of those cases where if you are a conservative you should be angry with these guys and say, look, we claim that free enterprise is part of our american culture. then find out what it means is tax avoidance. >> totally. but as one who has gone through this, just with relocating and another state, the state of california, currently and in the last 10 or 15 years have had people threatening to move out of california because of our

taxes. threatening to move out of california because of our regulation. threatening to move out of california because of all of the things we require corporations to do about protecting the environment. we understand that. and it's a job costing activity. but, keep in mind, that there ought to be an opportunity for dialogue around all of these issues in the same simple way and a consensus built out of that process. >> let me find one distinction there. american people supporting military that defend this country. the country is defended also including its hamburger joint are defended by our military, if you will. an saying oh, we won't pay for that. we're not paying for freedom of everything in this country. we used to call these guys pigs in the '60s. they only liked america because it was place it make money. now they make money and don't want to pay tax anyway. daniel gross, global finance editorial of the "daily beast" wrote scathingly of the deal yesterday saying quote prison may be the last refuge of the scoundrel but the last of it may

be corporate who doesn't know how to share in their business. >> in ohio, saying in a press release monday, this week, burger king's decision to abandon the united states means consumers should turn to wendy's. old-fashioned burgers or white castle sliders to help business grow in america. workplace training and encourage r & d and capital investment. corporations benefiting from the policies but want u.s. companies to pay their share of the tab. well said. >> there is legislation pending in congress to limit inversions and also to deal with -- >> why would the republicans defense this? >> wall street journal -- >> that editorial came out against it. >> you know why. because they are in the pockets of the people --

>> the wall street journal -- the lead editorial attacked the scheme. >> they can do that but at the same time the wall street journal and others have been bad about the $2 trillion that the corp rates have on the shelves of jersey and elsewhere. >> mayor brown, thanks so much. just too much nuance, sir. i like the straight ahead attack approach you usually take. thank you. with all due respect, thank you. i wanted to see more anger. you're an '60s guy. >> no, i'm not going to burger king. >> deadly shooting at a gun range. this is too sad to even still be laughing. a 9 the-year-old handed an automatic weapon, an uzi. what were these people thinking. this is "hardball," a place for politics. let me get this straight... [ female voice ] yes? lactaid® is 100% real milk? right. real milk. but it won't cause me discomfort. exactly, because it's milk without the lactose. and it tastes? it's real milk! come on, would i lie about this? [ female announcer ] lactaid. 100% real milk. no discomfort.

the jury may begin deliberations as soon as friday in that corruption friday of bob mcdonnell. former virginia's governor defense team rested their case early today. his wife defense questioned their final witness this afternoon. the jury heard from mcdonnell's daughter who said her mother had quote a mild obsession with businessman jonnie williams. closing arguments are expected to begin friday. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." this next story as i said is simply awful. with video to amplify the horror here. here is what happened. a 9-year-old girl was at a firing range with an instructor. she was firing a fully automatic uzi. at first on single shot mode then automatic mode. the weapon recoiled. the 9-year-old lost control and the instructor was killed. in the video you're about to see, she looks like every bit a child from her pink shorts to her ponytail. watch closely at the end to see how the gun recoils upwards. >> we have to keep that held in. otherwise the gun won't fire, okay? stand right there. there you go.

just like that. okay, turn this leg forward. there you go. just like that. all right. go ahead and give me one shot. all right. >> well, the instructor died monday night after being air lifted to a las vegas area hospital. one can only imagine the horror experienced by the young girl herself, her family and the family and friends of the instructor. but the instructor died nearly 48 hours ago, and there is still no word from the national rifle association. we saw a comment from the nra, public affairs director today but got no replay. joining me is former president of the brady campaign and cheryl from moms demand action for gun sense in america. shannon, what is your reaction to the picture we just showed. >> this is a tragedy. there are two victims. not just the man killed but this poor girl given an automatic weapon. when that never should happen. guns are not accessories. they are not toys. we hope this will start a national discussion.

it would be great if the nra would join us in and say it is time to protect children from guns. two children are shot unintentionally every single week and two thirds of the deaths can be prevented by safe storage. test test test test test. and the family and friends of the instructor. >> i thought we didn't have automatic weapons available to people. i thought they've been outlawed since the 30s and the machine gun kelly days snm that's a misconception, chris. actually, they are available they're just tightly regulated. you are allowed to buy a fully automatic weapon, you just have to go through certain checks. one thing that's really amazing to me is that a 9-year-old girl would have access to these. she wouldn't be able to buy one, possess one, but we don't have regulations on shooting ranges. one to two people are killed accidentally with a gun every day, we need some regulations on these guns and shooting ranges.

>> what's it like to hold an automatic oozie, firing bullets every second or so. is it like holding an oozie in your hanned? >> for her to be given this weapon and thought it can be used safely is ridiculous. even charles cook said, this is a bad idea, i think we can all come together and agree that children should not have access to automatic weapons. again, let's have a larger discussion about children and guns in this country. with rights come responsibility. the nra used to say, they still do it, guns don't kill people, people do. in this case, the gun did it, that gun was out of control, that young person holding the gun couldn't control the gun. she wasn't aiming it at the instructor, she was trying to keep control of it.

>> the gun did it, we need to regulate this, we can't keep having this conversation, the position from the nra, you can't do anything about guns. i went to the range, i shot a fully automatic weapon, it has a huge recoil. there's no way a 9-year-old should have these weapons. i learned how to shoot a .22 in sixth grade. >> where's the nra, can they just go silent on this? they have not said a word. when the producers called up the office of affairs, ed that de, silence. >> this is their strategy, after any shooting, after any high profile shooting, they'll move on and the discussion will be gone. they did it after sandy hook, after tucson, they did it after virginia tech, they do it every time, because they don't want to have a serious conversation

about what we can do to stop gun violence in this country. >> what do you make of the no comment from the nra? >> they're out of step, even with their own members. 74% of whom support things like background checks. it is time for nra to realize, their leaders to realize that americans believe that with rights come responsibilities, and, you know, we're not turning back on this, and they're going to have to come to the middle and have discussions with us, and this would be the perfect opportunity to start that conversation. >> i don't believe everybody's guilty who has a different opinion than i do. i don't believe people are sinful or illegal, but i think that people are members of the nra, have a unique ability because they're members and gun owners to write a letter, tweet or whatever way you have to communicate. a little restriction for common sense would not be the enemy of the gun owner, it would be the friend of the gun owner. a little bit of restraint for common sense. and do we ever see that any more? i think years ago, i thought there was more restraint by the nra than there is now.

>> the nra used to be all about gun safety, educating people. they became political and they are afraid to concede on any issue. basically, they want to take an extreme position, they don't want to have any compromise, and they need to hey from their members and the elected officials who say, come on. this is not about gun rights any more, this is not about the second amendment, we can have some common sense restrictions, you can still have your guns but #-year-olds should not be getting their hands on oozies, this makes no sense. >> i have a message. this is the slippery slope that we're watching. this is where you get all the way with gun rights. all the way is -- take a look at that girl. that's a slippery slope to hell. thank you. we'll be right back. have saved with progressive, so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless.

you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive.com today. i call this one "the robox."

could help your business didavoid hours of delaynd test caused by slow internet from the phone company? that's enough time to record a memo.

idea for sales giveaway. return a call. sign a contract. pick a tie. take a break with mr. duck. practice up for the business trip. fly to florida. win an award. close a deal. hire an intern. and still have time to spare. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed if we can't offer faster speeds - or save you money - we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. experience tells me you can't get a good hamburger outside the united states, certainly not one made by a foreign company, maybe it's because they're too cheap with the meat, too ready to fill it with something else. i love burger king. it's my favorite. it tastes like it's been grilled out back on a bbq. it tastes great plain. when you order one plain, they don't go nuts like at some other fast food places, like nobody's ever dared to do that before. anyway, let's get this straight,

i love burger king. i stick to burgers. just sell the burger, don't go changing it or confusing the customer. you're a burger joint, be proud of it. i knew what the corporate strategy was back then. i gave the example of two very attractive politicians. one a democrat, became a republican. another a republican who became a democrat. neither got snir close to president. people don't like people who switch parties after getting elected. again, dance with the one that brung you. burger king is going to move its top corporate address to canada. if this is a scam to avoid taxes, fine, good-bye. take your chances up in canada, if we americans see you do it, however, i think millions of us will say good-bye with our

money. by the way, it will still be true, if you want a good hamburger, buy an american one. that's hardball for now, it really is. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right nowp. tonight, we are all in. >> we just saw him standing, talking on the phone, and the next frame he's laying on the ground. >> another young black man shot and killed by police. this time in a walmart. this time there's video. and officials are refusing to release it. >> there's been a lot of criticism of me for not releasing it. >> the victim's father and his attorney join me exclusively. a gun instructor shot dead by the 9-year-old girl he was teaching to fire an oozie. tonight my interview with the owner of the gun range. plus, as congress asked to be ask for all out war on isis. what actual threat does the group present to america? and to recline or not to