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msnbc. ♪ >> hi, everyone. welcome to "your business" where every week we gather together to talk entrepreneurship and give you tips, advice, and a little inspiration to help your small business grow. for more than 100 years, this family has run an amusement company on the boardwalk of ocean city, maryland. i went down to spend a summer day with the family to find out the trick to surviving through so many generations and to running a decidedly old school business in today's modern world. ♪ >> for brooks and christopher and their aunt stephanie trim per lewis, taking over trimper rides on the boardwalk in ocean city, maryland, was as much

destiny as choice. >> it's what we do. we don't really know any different. >> my grandfather called and wanted me to be involved with the family business. >> the boardwalk is my heart and soul. >> the company was founded in 1890 by daniel trimper who visited from baltimore and then never left. >> we tried many thing s on the property. movie theaters, mini golf, tank battle. >> today it includes an amusement park, games, restaurants, and other attractions. as the ocean city boardwalk grew over the last century, so did the company. ♪ from here all the way to the end this is all trimper. >> yes, to the water. >> and the clarm is brooks trim pper, the fifth generation to take the reins. >> you're 33 years old. so you're one of the youngest. >> yes. >> of the trimper dynasty here. yet, you're the fwhun charge. how did that happen?

>> i communicate very well. the family business there is a lot of drama. a lot of politics. and i handle it. >> from the perspective of any thrill seeker looking to hop on to the freak out or someone looking to win a big stuffed animal at the horse race, it all looks easy. fun and games, really. but to brooks and his family, running this business is anything but. the family drama is just the start. >> there are probably approximately 25 stockholders. and those stockholders have children and spouses and things. so there is quite a few people that have some sort of ownership. >> ownership and different ideas of how things should be run. >> i've got a lot of extended family that have a lot of needs and desires and they want to get return on the investment which is understandable. everyone does. and so being the actual poor family that runs it, i feel that my grandfather left us with that responsibility that not only do we need to provide an amusement park to the people of ocean

city, but we need to provide a return. >> a return that is increasingly tough to provide. taxes have gone up. the cost of maintaining the rides has increased, and prices, well, they can't go up too much. >> we can't pass like most businesses can pass their expenses on to the consumer. it's very hard here because a parent can only afford so much, you know, for a child to ride a ride for three minutes. >> it used to be ten cent ski ball. and the public almost died when i had to switch it to a quarter. >> this place has history. and because of that, it's hard to change almost anything. it took brooks and christopher an entire year to get their grandfather to start accepting credit cards. >> there is a lot of people stuck in their ways. and with 100 years, it doesn't matter if a new policy comes out. it's like this is how we did it for 88 years. >> one thing we talk about small businesses is that they're nimb nimble. it sounds like in this small business, you don't have that. >> no. we've been here so long and for

so many stockholders and so many chiefs and not many indians. to make a decision, you need to make sure you sympathy he to everybody. >> and in a business that has so much nostalgia attached to it, it's not only the ideas of the shareholders they are behohlen to but also the customer who's have been coming for generations. >> when we take a ride out because it's past the time or we can no longer get parts for it or no longer profitable, we get complaints. customers say where are the little boats? i always rode the boats. >> brooks says his company is decidedly old school. pretty much by definition. but they're committed to keeping it alive and so are working with the board to make the changes needed to have an old school amusement business survive in this modern world. a clear example is the arcade. marty's playland. >> the biggest change is what the prizes the kids want. you know, now we got video games with ipads and itouches.

that's what kids want to play. >> i can win an ipad in there? >> from playing games. >> that is different from when i was a kid. >> yes. >> but while the prices may change and the rides may get a little scarier to attract the teenagers, the trimpers are dedicated to keeping this amusement park true to the park they grew up. >> i find it interesting you've been playing this and running this game since you were 8 years old and yet i'm beating you. >> you haven't beat me yet. you keep asking me the questions and distract me. >> if they have it their way, there will be another round of trimpers running this in the next generation. >> the land that your business on is worth a lot of money. marty's playland, the amusement park and restaurants. it is ever tempting to sell it? >> i can't tell that you people haven't thought about it. but i would never trade out our heritage and this boardwalk because it means too much -- i would want to be here every day anyway. and i wouldn't want it to be somebody else's. >> so even for a big payout? >> not even for a big payout. i'm here for the long haul.

♪ i love this american ride >> roto rooter has been a household name since 1935. the company was built around the invention of the roto rooter machine, the world's first electronic sewer cleaning device. from the humble beginnings, the kpp has grown into the largest provider of plumbing repair and sewer cleaning services in the u.s. how they survived and grown the business for more than 75 years? ♪ >> there's only two modes, growing or dying. growing is easy to see. sales are up. profits are up. i think oftentimes when companies begin to what i call the slow death march, there is

too much rationalization. there is too much -- it was just a blip on the screen. just a couple of bad years. roto-rooter is a rare example that something was conceived in 1935 and is still going strong in 2013. most brands don't last that long. so where the brands get themselves in trouble, well, they go past prime. there is not much market share or growth left. and instead of reinventing themselves, they just say let's work harder next year. let's trim some costs. but unless you find a way to reinvent yourself, unless you find new services or products, you're on a slow death march and you're in denial. you have employees that are counting on you not to do that. and if you're past prime, own up to it. start making the right decisions because you'll either grow or start dying. ♪ you've hit on a good idea. everybody in the company gets in line and wants to do it. and the energy level is off the

charts. the guys slow down because if we outrun our headlights, if we roll something out too quickly, then the collateral damage could kill the concept. so i think you have to slow down enough and have the discipline to say if this is a good concept if, no one else is doing it, we probably have a little time to tweak and figure out what is working and what's not. and if we're entering a new business that others are already in, what's the rush? get it right. because if you outrun your headlights, it's dark out there. you might get off the road. or worse. ♪ it's important i think to understand the difference between leveraging your business and reinventing your business. leverage is simply how do i grow sales a little bit more with the products service package that i have today? how do i control expenses maybe a little better than i have

historically? but leverage gives you more upside. reinvention, though, is huge. that's where the big money is. but that's also where the big losses could occur. so i think there's no formula for this. i think everyone has to kind of do that gut check and say do i have some level of risk tolerance and am i willing to try to take a poshgs rtion of m profitability and leverage that into product service that's i'm presidentantly not in? -- presently not in. >> the time to reinvent is when you're growing, when you're winning, when you have the energy. and it's the hardest time to reinvent because your employees don't want to jump onboard. employees are saying, lighten up, boss. everything's great. you have to be the person who sees the trends developing before anyone else does. it's harder, it's harder when you're doing well to get the support of the organization. but if they trust that you have their interests and the

company's interests at heart, you must have the resources to do it while can you afford to do it. >> when it comes to hiring, gone are the days of focusing only on resumes. today, smart businesses are using social media tools like twitter to recruit as well as learn more about candidates. tom is here to show us how tweets with lead to your next hire. he is the president and ceo of lasal network, a professional recruiting foorm. great to see you. >> yes, twitter can be used for so many things. it's interesting. you're going to talk about how it's both for recruiting people but also doing a little research on them. so let's dig right into this. if you want to use twitter, first you have to build a following. >> yeah, you have. to i think it's all about how many followers you have and then when you post something on somebody else's twitter feed and go viral with that. so you have to be more than just 10, 15, 20 followers.

it can't be something you use for your friends on a social basis or, you know, reuniting with college folks. if you really want to use twitter effectively from a professional business standpoint, you have to get a lot of followers. >> are you supposed to be having -- talking about special twitter handle for recruiting or do you just use your company's? >> i think that is the age-old problem we have with social media going back to, you know, a few years ago with facebook and people getting job offers recinded because of crazy pictures. you have to decide what you want your twitter handle to be used for. so we try to advise our clients on is especially on the corporate side for hiring managers, human resources, leaders within a company, that one want to attract people, use it professionally. can you do personal posts, make sure they're not too far out there in left field. on the flip side, if you're a candidate and looking for a job, realize people are looking at from you all different angles in the social media world. you need to keep it fairly tight. >> okay. so be consistent and direct. you mean with your messaging about the jobs? >> yeah. across all things.

so if you're going to be concise and direct about what you're company is doing, you want to be able -- you want to use hash tags and reference back to something. you never know. i mean for a lot of people are afraid of twitter. it is still new. there is a lot of people i talk to at all levels of the spectrum who just don't understand. okay, if i put a hash tag in, what does that mean? how does that trace back to me? >> what kind of hash tag? say, for instance, i'm a coffee shop and looking to hire someone. jj's coffee looking to hire someone? >> #jobopen, #backtoworkmom, # graduatingfromuniversityof illinois. who knows. >> then know who to follow. if you are using twitter to hire people, what kinds of people do you want to follow? >> i think it really depends on the business and where you want to go in to get people. at the end of the day, what you want to have is your posts be

retweeted. so sometimes you can think about it too much and get too analytical as to who you're following. what you really want to be do is be followed by a lot of people and have them retweet the posts so it gets to their network. it's like that old commercial where it goes from eight to 16 to 32 and 64 and multiplies. >> for instance, you're looking to hire someone in the financial world, you might want somebody who has got a lot of followers in that world. >> absolutely. but it also may be somebody to follow you, j.j., if there is a lot of people in the business community that are following your posts and i write something and you retweet that, then it's going to hit people in a different way. and while you're in the business community, obviously, you're not directly in financial services. >> right. okay. and then pull in, don't push out. what does that mean? >> it means you want to get as many -- you don't want to be selective with what you're doing. you want -- twitter is one avenue for people to find other people and also to find jobs. you want to bring as many people as can you into your world and then have to screen out. and so when you get too selective and only want to follow people who are working at banks or investment banks or

private equity firms, you're only going after college grads, you're limiting yourself. you have to realize it is a numbers game. >> tom, thank you. i know hiring -- i talk to small business own areas cross the board. one the top three things they say they're having trouble with, in spite of the inemployment numbers is hiring. real yi appreciate you coming on and giving me another tool. >> it's a good market. it doesn't look as bad as it looks. >> we have more information and advice to help your small business grow. we'll answer some of your questions about building a sales force and then keeping them motivated. and shawn kenny loved legos so he turned his hobby into what's become a booming business. ♪ we built this city on rock 'n' roll ♪ ♪ built this city if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community,

that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. shawn kenny loved to play with leggo blocks. he would spend time making sculptures and other reations out of them. what useded to be a hobby for shawn is now a booming business. his work is bought by major corporations. it's been exhibited around the world. and items like his lego lamps can be bought on sites. here's how shawn turned his play into profits.

♪ you could say shawn kenny has a unique business. >> i did a project for the philadelphia zoo and we built 30 life size animals that are set up aurn the zoo. the polar bear took 1100 hours to build. and it had over 9 a,000 pieces in it. >> he's a lego certified professional. that's right. he actually has an official certification to play with lego blocks. >> the wall you're looking at is probably 300,000 pieces although it's a small port of the 1.5 million i have. >> across the east river from manhattan, shawn has built a thriving company out of a childhood passion. but this wasn't his first profession. for years he worked in technology and the financial sector. while satisfying his hobby outside the office. >> i would take pictures of my creations and put them online. there are a lot of people out there that actually play with lego toys as an adult and i was

one of many of them. >> elaborate designs such as this one of greenwich village helped him build a reputation. and the right people started to take notice. >> one day i got an e-mail from lego company. they said we're coming to new york city. we're doing this big gallery show and media event. we would like you to come along and bring this model and that thing and this other thing you made. >> he set out on the own and finded shawn kenny designs. he worked with lego to formalize the relationship. >> we said let's come up with a way that they can support what i do. and it eventually became lego certified professionals. >> shawn operates independently of lego but partners with the company to work on displays and special events. the connection was a great way for him to get his work in front of people. and also legitimatize an unusual business. >> by being able to say, no, this is legitimate business. i have, you know, i have an operation here. i have facility. i have staff. you know, this is a real thing. >> despite doing almost no traditional marketing, he's landed commissions for corporate giants like google and mazz

dashgs individual clients and a variety of other quirky jobs. >> i was contacted by the staff at 30 rock because tina fey had written in an episode of her show where they had to assemble a lego train as part of a training seminar or something like that at an executive conference. >> whoo! >> then they realized they needed one for a prop. they called mechlt a gallery is putting together a exhibit about william shatner. >> they have given his deal a great deal of flexibility. >> you never necessarily know who is going to come and ask you to do things. i've, you know, developed sort of static revenue streams for things such as my books so that i know i can sort of structure the rest of my business around other things. >> looking back, shawn doesn't point to a single tipping point. but rather a steady buildup similar to the way one of his creations comes together. >> a lot of businesses are all

about grow, grow, grow. you know, the last quarter better than the quarter before that. but i'm actually really happy knowing that if i can run my business, be successful, make enough money to raise a family and live in this expensive city that i live in, i'm going to be really happy. >> it's time to answer some of your questions. our next ge has launched a second company called let's yo yogurt. >> he helps executives understand how well the sales forces are performing. the first question, great to see both of you guys, is about selling your brand. >> greg, this is made for you.

so how do you build your sales force? >> i start with understanding how a customer makes a purchase decision and what the critical touchpoints are along the way at the deal level and at the account level. and then working backwards from that, i would understand, you know, how to serve the customer at those critical moments. i have to determine how many sales people i have. the type of tools i need to provide the sales person to meet those particular customer needs. >> you know what? i have to say, it's hard. >> it's hard to be as passionate as you are about what do you. so, eric, how do you get the right fit? >> i think that is critical. when you talk you're talking ab

sales -- sales isn't always the product, it tease person. someone is not buying the product, they're buying you. when you're interviewing for the personality, quality and skills and enthusiasm. when they're presented to one of your customers or potential customers, they're going to be buying that person's personality and how they present your product. >> how do you find that person? >> it's a needle in a haystack. we talk about mining for diamonds all the time. you have to sift through a lot of coal to get through the diamond. in our system with retro fitness, talking about selling franchises as opposed to jim memberships, we're always looking for a person. they have to have a lot of passion and they've got to have that ability to want to work and put their enthusiasm around the clock into your business. >> i'm glad someone asked this question. i'm going out to california to do a story on this very thing, about how to build a sales force. let's move on to the next question. this is about expanding your network.

>> what is the best way to cold reach out to potential clients, through contacts that you may not have and find people at companies you would want to reach out to? >> this is hard. cold calls are some of the hardest things to do. eric, is there a good way to get in there when you don't already have a pre-existing relationship or friend of a friend? >> i'll tell you what people do to me, today's version of cold calling is something like linked it. i get hit up there all the time. it's difficult to get me in the phone in the office. you go to linkedin, you get me direct. i think now it's being creative with how you get to the decision maker. >> let's move on to the next one. this is a question about keeping your all-important sales staff motivated. >> i'd ask for some tips on their strategies where they've grown from a small startup, like five people, to a large company with a long sales cycle.

>> the way to keep a salesperson engage saturday a technique called sales gameification. if you know it will take 12 months to close a deal, assign some points to some steps, maybe you're a silver rep, bronze rep. keep them interested. >> our sales guys, you have la timing effect. maybe one is coming in and closing from six months ago. until you get to the point where they have that built-up pipeline, keeping them motivated is all about them understanding what the end goal is, what the end result is. there is, like greg said, along the way, there are merits along the way. we've got familiar packet in. what's the next step? we have to come in for discovery day so they can learn and meet the team. once those things happen, there are some positive things along the way that you can reward and not meaning a financial

compensation, but like greg was saying, some kind of merit badge or encouragement tool or, hey, we got this far, let's go celebrate over x, y, z. >> greg, how do you figure out the right balance between commission and salary? >> well, it depends on the economics of your sale. if you're selling a big ticket item, you can afford a salary and hang in there during that long sales cycle. if you're a transactional sale, a small dollar amount, the gross margin might be a little tighter, you want to keep your costs available and go with more commissions. >> let's just say you're giving commissions, higher commissions. a lot of these salespeople, unless they belong to your staff, they're selling a lot of products. how do you keep them excited anti your product? >> in our environment, i love a salesperson that sits across and says pay me commission, i don't want a salary. i know that's a go better, you've got to love that guy or gal. for us, it's the enthusiasm. your carrot has to be the biggest carrot that's hanging out there. if you're going to have

ex-personal salespeople working for you. if they're going to be using some kind of independent contracting sales tools. we have everything as internal in our sales organizations, but we do know there are some companies that use these devices that are out there. i'm not a big fan of those. i like my team to be internal. if you're out there, you better have the biggest carrot out there. >> thank you, guys sorks much, eric and greg for coming on. i think hiring a sales team is so incredibly important and tricky how to keep them motivated. appreciate your insight on all of this. if you have a question for our experts go, to our website, the address is openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there, hit the ask the show link to submit a question. that website is openforum.com/yourbusiness. that address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. in today's technology driven mobile world snagging more

customers doesn't have to be tedious or more expensive. here are five simple ways to find more online leads and customers. one, webinars, they're a great low risk, low cost way to share valuable information with potential customers and build your e-mail subscriber database quickly. two, pay per click ads. as customers use different search engines, these can help you strategic cli bring your target audience to your website. three, content marketing. infographics, how-do guides and blogs are ways you can post useful material on social media platforms and customer forums. this helps more customers learn about you and helps build back links to bring even more traffic to your site. four, mobile optimization. it's estimated that nearly 35% of all web traffic comes from a mobile device. so make sure you have an accessible mobile friendly version of your company website. and five, public relations.

newsworthy pr announcements can help with generating media coverage and keeping your company's website ranking higher within the search engines. looking to get your business information and offerings in front of more customers? then check out our website of the week. locu.com provides an easy-to-use dashboard. you can automatically update your listings on multiple websites like yelp and trip adviser and the yellow pages. the site allows you to promote and share your changes on social media sites like four square and trip adviser. thanks so much for joining me today. i hope you learned a thing or two. you can find all of today's segments online as well. go to openforum.com/your business. we also put up web exclusive content with more information to help your business grow. we're on twitter as well.

it's@msnbcyourbiz. next time americans and their concerns about safety have spawned the prep movement. >> our demographic is people who want to be able to be comfortable and survive if there's an emergency. >> how fear of the unknown and the need to get control is driving the profits of small businesses catering to survivalists. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make your business our business. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone.

there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. air strikes in iraq and another be heading by isis. good morning. i'm jonathan capehart sitting in for steve kornacki. late word from the pentagon last night that the u.s. conducted air strikes against isis militants near the iraqi city. they say it made it possible to drop aid packages to the city that has been under siege for two months cutting them off from food, water and medical supplies. when they have been able to la t