refuse passports under the prerogative if there's reason to believe people are planning to take part in terrorist-related activity. president obama heading to europe today where vladimir putin's aggression in ukraine looms over nato talks later this week. cloud control. sebty photos stolen from the cloud shows how wrong we are to assume what we deem private stays private. >> our information is on a cloud at some point and now's a time to say, hey, how safe is my information there? good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitch knell washington. u.s. military launched an air strike in somalia yesterday

targeting the top leader. six militants were reportedly killed. no official pentagon confirmation yet as to whether gadon was one of them. they were responsible for the shopping mall attack in kenya last year killing more than 60 people. nbc's chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski joins me now. what do we know so far? >> reporter: u.s. military groe drones or a single drone fired two hellfire missiles described at a small convoy, possibly only two vehicles. and that those two vehicles believed to be either trucks or suvs were reportedly obliterated in the attack. now, u.s. military officials we're talking to have a high degree of confidence that al shabab leader was in one of those vehicles and that the missiles, those hellfire missiles struck and destroyed what they were aimed at. when's vexing and somewhat

frustrating to people here at the pentagon and others in the intelligence world is so far there's no chatter on the al shabab or usual al qaeda terrorist networks about, one, gadan was martyred and, therefore, would be a recruiting tool, or that he was still alive. so the book is that al shabab is waiting to announce that, in fact, their leader had been killed but, again, until they get definitive proof that he is dead, they're not going to confirm it here even though they say there's a high likelihood here that he was. >> jim miklaszewski with the latest from the pentagon, thank you so much. >> reporter: okay. >> i'm joined by congressman. >> good to be here. >> have you been briefed yesterday? do we know more about whether godane, terror leader, was, in fact, killed? >> we haven't received that briefing yet but this is another

example. we have been talking a lot about isil and al qaeda. but here's an example of what's happening with somalia with al shabab. we have many terrorist groups out there, planning to attack us, united states or allies so we have to be vigilant all over the world to protect americans from these types of attacks. >> the president heads to europe and a nato meeting to discuss primarily the putin threat in ukraine. but we also as you point out we have the isis threat, we have other terror groups involved. what is the state of homeland security? i know you have said that you don't think there's an imminent threat of isis florida but there was an isis fighter that went home and went back and blew himself up in a terror bombing. >> the goal for the united states ultimately to protect the homeland security, that's why we're engaged in different irkss in the middle east and other areas. as far as the homeland, what my concern is and very concerned about this, we have americans

and europeans that have passports, they have gone to syria. they have been radicalized. and they are very big threat to us because we might not be able to find out when they come into the united states. they've been trained to kill. an example of that was an american who went to syria. he was radicalized. she was trained to be a suicide bomber. before he committed his own death to kill other people, he came home to see his parents and went back to syria. and we didn't have the information when he came back to see his parents. that is my biggest concern at this point because they don't need to have information other than their passport to come and go to other places and back to the united states. >> whatever happened to the terror watch list? we know of innocent people getting stopped and no-fly lists and shouldn't be. isn't there a watch list of people like this so when someone from florida goes over, publicly joining isis or another group, that they would be on a no-fly

list? >> that's a good point. we are vigilant. we do as much as we can but when you're dealing with the volume that we have and tsa, sometimes you can slip through. another issue we have and i don't mean to bring up a bad point but as a result of what snowden did, there are many terrorists we were involved with and now that we have lost them because of the information that snowden put out, they're using different type of tactics so we can't find them. >> wanted to also ask you about video over the weekend from libya and there's a lot of focus on the fact that we evacuated all of these residences and the embassy and believe this is a residence. look at the swan dive from libyan militia, islamic radicals taking over american property. now, all american personnel left in the middle of the night on july 26 and no american lives at stake. but clearly, these are unguarded american installations that now have been taken over by militia groups and certainly tweaking us

by posting that videos. >> extremely upsetting to us to see that happen to american property. number one priority is to protect americans. we think the americans are at risk, we have to do whatever we can to protect them. whether it's the military, whether it's the state department or american that is are throughout the world on behalf of the united states. and it got so serious and was so dangerous for them to be there, we had to make a move. now, you know, it upsets us, concerned about it. but the most important issue is protecting american lives and protecting our homeland. >> i interviewed over the weekend dianne feinstein, your counterpart on the senate intelligence committee and she said she thinks that the president is overly cautiously on isis and not trying to push isis back, especially in syria where they're based. do you agree with that? >> what senator feinstein, chairman rodggers and the senat

intelligence committee, saxby chambliss, we work together. i have a lot of respect for senator feinstein. i think she is very concerned and thinks we need to be aggressive and i agree. the most highest priority that we have is to protect americans and how do we do that? if it means we need to go into syria and that's what we need to protect us, that's what we're going to do. to go in, we have to have a plan. you don't respond to the media, you don't respond to other collateral issues but good intelligence and intelligence is the best defense against terrorism. and then you work with the military and then you have your targets. we are not a country to kill other people and have collateral damage and when we go in, using military, we'll make sure that it works. you know, using just military in iraq didn't work. look at how the government was run after we left, that's a reason isil is effective in iraq because you have different factions that don't really care about the leadership that pushed

them out the door. when the shias, the perception or wasn't perception, it was true. malaki pushed the kurds and pushed the sunnis out the door so that's why we need to make sure we do it the right way. i know the president of the united states whether he's democrat or whether a republican, most important issue to do what's right for america and protect america and we'll do what we have to do to take out if we have to this isil. we need other people and countries to work with us, also. >> congressman, thank you so much. >> sure, good. >> really appreciate your judgments today. >> good, right, sure. we are following a developing story in tennessee. nine teenagers now on the run after escaping a nashville detention center late monday night. the breakout occurred in a shift change. first 32 teens slipped through a fence. local police took 23 back into custody overnight and through this morning. all teens housed in the tennessee facility committed at least three felonies. we'll bring you updates throughout the hour as we

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president obama is leaving washington this afternoon for estonia to show support for the baltic states in advance of the nato summit in wales this week. this as clashes inside ukraine continue. the ukrainian security chief says that russian military spotted in both of the country's major rebel-held cities. nbc's keier simmons has been there. you saw some of the action? >> reporter: that's right. we've moved around eastern

ukraine region. we were driving into donetsk and driving across the line, if you like, from ukrainian-controlled ukraine into the rebel-held area, the pro-russian rebels. we were in no man's land between the checkpoints and we were in a line of cars that were waiting to be checked, in through this rebel-controlled checkpoint when a number of shells landed on the hill behind us, five or more boom, boom, boom, boom. clearly as you expect, there is some degree of panic. there was smoke rising. we believe that what was hit was the ukrainian checkpoint that we had seen just a mile earlier. and we were an interesting aspect of it, though, andrea. we were in a queue, a line of cars waiting to be checked into this checkpoint, perhaps maybe 50, some people turned and driving at speed but a lot of people simply reacted by staying where they were. you know?

that's how ever day the conflict has got here now. shells land nearby and the civilian population hardly flinched. they're getting used to this as the pro-russian rebels backed by the russians and ukrainian government forces have battled each other. it does look now as if the ukraines pushed back, back on the back foot by support of the russians but this keeps on going back and forth and the lines we were crossing between different places, those move on a regular basis. weeks, weeks can see them in different places in this region. >> keir, is this just a fiction this is, quote, an incursion? is there any doubt that russian tanks, artillery and troops with their patches taken off have crossed the border and operating freely now in ukraine to push back ukrainian government advances? >> reporter: only doubt really is from the russians and the

pro-russians who say that there's not the case. it is difficult to be absolutely sure what you're seeing on the ground. you see military in new uniforms, artillery and you see weaponry that looks like it could be russian but, remember, this is a battle between two sides that really are brothers. ukraine and russia are very closely linked and even the military and armory they use may well have been manufactured in the same place much ukrainian weapons can be russian. it is difficult to know what you're thinking but the evidence of russian has made an incursion and there are those including for example saying it's not an incursion. it's an invasion. >> keir simmons, be careful out there. thank you for calling in. now the question is, can the

president and other nato leaders later this week stop putin? show of force going to help? joining me from stamford university, contribute or the michael mcfall. good to see you again. thank you very much. >> sure. >> this is all very tense obviously going into the nato meeting. we hear from prime minister cameron that the uk is going to organize a force of europeans for the eastern nato frontier but what is going to get putin to change his mind? >> well, it's clear that putin has escalated militarily. the rebels were losing just ten days ago, two weeks ago. he's clearly upped the antenow and fighting outside of the city, that's evidence that they're winning. so the west, the obama administration and the nato alliance needs to think about ways to shore up the ukrainian

side, a combination of two things. one, more sanctions, of course. if they escalate, the west has to respond. and two, i think there will be a serious discussion about military assistance for the ukrainia ukrainians. >> there are a number of quotations from putin that have been very aggressive and then denied or rolled back by spokes people. but putin is putin. the latest is him saying and it was quoted in rubblea to the eu leader barasso to take kiev in days if he wanted to. the other comment earlier this weekend was that there will need to be another reorganization or political vote for eastern ukraine similar to what took place this crimea. what's putin doing now? he's very deliberate about this stuff. tease are not accidents. i don't think they're accidents. you're right. his deputies, people i used to work with closely whether i was ambassador, have tried to take the edge of ate and said in

particular the quote, well, we could be in kiev in two weeks was taken out of context and curious what the context was but i think it shows that he has decided to double down and he's -- he is now being more belligerent. more assertive in terms of what russia wants. this is different than just a couple of weeks ago and especially a couple of months ago when his relationship with the rebels in eastern ukraine was ambiguous and sending mixed signals. now it's much more definitive. >> sanctions, they're going to be ramped up. but the ruble is collapsing. the economy is collapsing. short term, that doesn't seem to have an affect because putin's popularity with russians is skyrocketing. >> that's exactly right. short term is the key word, right? sanctions in russia against the russian economy will not bring the people out on the streets and people protesting against putin for years in my opinion. i think he will be able to

withstand this for a long time. it doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. there has to be a price to be paid for violating international rules for violating international norms. and i hope that the nato alliance will do so later this week but we shouldn't pretend that that's going to stop putin. i don't think in the short term it will. >> and should we be arming ukraine with better arms? are they able to utilize that or are we just creating another situation where the arms get captured and then another blowback? >> well, i'm not so much worried about arms getting captured. i think what we really do need to listen to president preschenn coe and listen to what he needs and doesn't need but the essence that if nothing is done, putin is going to win, i think that's clear. the west needs to respond to the

escalation putin has provoked. >> thank you so much, mike mcfaul. thank you, ambassador. >> thank you for having me. united nations is saying the spreading of ebola could create a crisis of resources in west africa. at least 120 health workers died in the outbreak. the head of the centers for disease control said this morning the epidemic is spiraling out of control in africa but today president obama released a video message saying that it can be contained. >> stopping this disease won't be easy but we know how to do it. you are not alone. together, we can treat those who are sick with respect and dignity. we can save lives. ♪ fill their bowl with the meaty tastes they're looking for, with friskies grillers.

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turning to politics, midterms are nine weeks away, nine weeks from today. 2014's most valuable democratic

surrogate, bill clinton is kicking off a busy campaign week in connecticut today appearing for one of the most vulnerable democratic governors, dan ma loi and then going off to maine and florida on friday. president obama is limiting his fall campaign schedule to a few, very few key states. sources tell nbc's chuck todd that president obama will spend most of his time in wisconsin, pennsylvania, illinois, michigan and florida. he may also touch in new york but he's completely avoiding those red zones where senate control is won or lost. joining me for the daily fix, jonathan capehart and anna palmer. welcome both. i don't know than, first to you. it's no accident that bill clinton is out there and he'll be campaigning in a bunch of red states for some of those endangered senate incumbents and barack obama will not. >> because it's very smart. look. everyone knows from the president on down, both

presidents, quite frankly, that president bill clinton can go into the places and those states where the current sitting president barack obama can't go because he's just not popular. his poll numbers are down nationally and a lot of these red states, well, they're red. you know? republican states. so for the president to go and campaign for the democratic candidate is probably something that the democratic candidate doesn't want and, you know, quite frankly, from the folks in the white house, they don't want to send the president some place to do damage because it's all about from their perspective hanging on to this democratic control of the senate. >> and, anna palmer, it's very clear that the dccc outraised the republicans by $27 million. so they're well advantaged financially. but they've got a lot of challenges now. they've got so many states, more states in play. >> absolutely. i think when you look at house democrats, what they're going to

be doing is trying to limit republicans to as few wins as possible. one of the things that we are starting to see is house republicans had really hoped that they would build upon the majority to maybe take their agenda and not have to listen to some of the more conservative members that have, you know, forced the government shutdown, for instance, and limited to six to eight states and there's interestingly enough, some republican incumbent who is are in trouble, for example, liter ri in nebraska that certainlynot what republicans were hoping to have to defend those seats. >> and jonathan, and anna, when bill clinton goes out, he is not going out only for the midterms but accumulating, chits, ious for 2016. >> absolutely. when you look what happens, he did this last cycle, too, barnstorming across, not just the federal elections but a lot of state and local elections. >> right. >> no race was too small and

certainly if hillary decides to make that run in 2016 it will be very beneficial. >> i don't know than? >> absolutely. i agree with everything that anna says and to add on top of that, bill clinton loves this stuff so you don't have to twist his arm very hard to get him out on the campaign trail. >> one of the great weekend stories, as well, politico story, was the whole arkansas connection, anna, the fact that bill clinton and hillary clinton both still get briefed from long-time clinton aide from the governor's days in arkansas and still write notes if someone dies or has a wedding or there's some other event. they still get very well briefed on any changes at all in arkansas. >> absolutely. i think this is certainly what you see is their kind of political cache in the state politics and briefed on the local elected officials just shows how much their infrastructure still is in

arkansas and if she is going to run, this is stuff to be beneficial to her, you know, kind of going out in front and the southern states that certainly you see obama avoiding completely. >> and of course, in this cycle, he is working very hard for mark pryor and james lee witt. jonathan, let's talk about chris christie, another potential 2016 candidate on the other side of the aisle. now, he's been, you know, set back by all the problems, but now "the new york times" is reporting an audio they have at least confirmed indicated a lot of braggadoccio talking about what he would do against putin. i think the quote from the audiotape was, i don't believe given who i am that he, meaning putin, would make the same judgment. let's leave it at that. sort of a kind of tough guy attitude of putin but not necessarily a foreign policy.

>> right. well, what you have there is the usual, the typical christie bluster. but when he's quickly finding out and as a "the new york times" story makes clear, it is one thing to talk about and hint about running for president. but once you put yourself out there as he did in this particular venue with these donors and these people really interested in what he thinks and christie world view, that they're not -- they're not thinking that he's just thinking about it. they see him as a candidate and as a result they want real answers from him and so one of the quotes after that vignette you just read, the person said heavy on style, light on substance. folks want to hear the substance and it's clear governor christie doesn't have the substance yet. >> jonathan, anna, great to see you both. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. critical day today for detroit's future. today the legal battle over detroit's historic chapter 9

bankruptcy and the plan to slash more than $7 billion in debt began at a local courthouse. bankruptcy judge is expected to hear from dozens of witnesses through the course of the trial. pinning local officials against the financiers. detroit's leaders are pitching a package that includes receiving more than $800 million from the state of michigan and nonprofit associations over a 20-year period. so factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria? even if you're healthy and active. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract.

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put in place for the team? i'm joined by general mccalf ri and ann guerin. general, first to you. does it seem that things have gotten worse or is it just that we see this every day but it just seems like it's breaking out all over the place? >> well, you can certainly make a strong argument that the vital national security interest of the united states, certainly in the short run, are not significantly threatened by almost anything going on. having said that, clearly, the yukraine is a major problem because it demonstrates inadequacy. we don't have any u.s. army, armored units in europe. period. so to some extent you can't substitute words for lack of military capability. and putin's emboldened by this sort of thing. >> anne, there's no appetite to go into ukraine, no military

option. the president made it very clear in the comments. but now david cameron is talking about prepositioning a european-led expeditionary force on nato border on the eastern front. will that have an affect? >> it will on putin and the nato rapid reaction force that the nato secretary-general called for yesterday and which will be a major topic for president obama and david cameron and other the nato leaders this week in wales. that will be seen, already is being seen in russia as a direct provocation. russia said today they'll re re-evaluate the military stance and that's taken the fight right to the border of russia and it brings up all of the old questions about what is nato now that there's no soviet union and what does the russian military

do in response to a what it views as hostile foreign force at its border. >> and even if there are no american troops involved, general, it does -- it's really thumbing nato's, you know, sort of thumbing nato -- >> i know what you mean. >> in putin's face. was nato expansion a mistake? >> yeah. one of the mistake is not communicating to the american people, do they understand under nato treaty obligations in theory the u.s. is committed to defending the baltic states and poland? so, and then discussing nato expansion to the ukraine or georgia which would be absolute madness. if you don't have military power, if you don't have political will and you have a piece of paper, the chances are you exacerbate diplomacy. you don't strengthen it. i think the baltic states and

poland ought to be worried about where's the will from their european partners, never mind the u.s.? >> let me ask you about isis and also about this hit against al shabab. anne, it would be a significant passage if we have actually gotten the leader, not that there wouldn't be others to replace him, but we have seen so much death and destruction around africa, around the continent from al shabab. >> absolutely. there's not a great deal known about this leader and his death is not confirmed but it would be a blow to the organization, a stroke of success for u.s. forces to be able to carry it out. but also, you know, a visible expansion of further, you know, special forces operations, in africa which is something that the obama administration has

taken on over the last couple of years. more and more visibly. >> and general, regarding isis, there's a debate emerging as to whether the president has been too cautious, cautious enough or has been slow to act against isis or is just thinking clearly about the fact that we don't yet know what would be the next step if we were to take out isis in syria. >> well, i must admit, i'm sort of heartened by his caution, by his deliberation. all these voices calling for action, rarely specify what it is precisely they want to do. we ought to be worried about isis fighters returning to europe and the united states. there's no question about that. but if you want to deal with that, strengthen the national security agency, the fbi and the customs and border protection. this is not likely to be solved by naval air pounding targets in syria so i think the president has a really lem ma and no real

good answers to this and let's think through it carefully before we worsen the situation like doctors do no harm. >> general, thank you so much. and anne, thank you, as well. and lava still flowing from the massive volcano in iceland after sunday's eruption. officials in the country reduced the alert level day after 200-foot plumes were seen shooting from the volcano. scientists are concerned that the latest eruption could be a sign of more volcanic activity in the coming days. so far, at least unlike two years ago, air travel in europe is not disrupted. looks like my next dinner party. that's only 4 points? with weight watchers you can enjoy the food you really want. dine out on favorites or cook up something new. i can do this every day. join for free and start losing weight now. learn how to eat healthier while enjoying the foods you love. get inspired at meetings, online, or both. hurry, and if you join by sept 13th

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photos which not yet been identified. the hacker claims it was hacked from the i cloud and online storage server. this is only the latest breach in online privacy. joining me via skype of sweden at a computer security conference is computer security expert and attorney, mark brash and prosecuted cases at the justice department as the head of the computer crimes unit. mark, thanks very being with us. should we be shocked by this or something to be aware, that the cloud is not secure? >> well, a little bit of each because people trust the cloud. they trust that their phones are secure. they trust that they can take these kind of pictures and discretely and if they keep them locked up, nobody will get to them. what this incident reveals is that trust is misplaced. >> apple issued a statement, mark, saying we take user privacy very seriously and are actively investigating this report. that's from a spokeswoman for

apple. but is there any way that they can prevent this from happening? >> well, the problem with trying to present it, they do take a lot of steps to try to prevent it, they have to prevent every possible way in and the hackers and bad guys have to find one way to get in. finding one way, they're in. always playing a little bit of cat and mouse. >> what we have seen is some of these celebrities apparently were not involved. they have denied it. but there was a statement from jennifer laurence's spokesperson indicated it had taken place. we'll prosecute anyone who posts the stolen photos of jennifer lawrence. is the message here don't post embarrassing pictures, personal photos anywhere? >> well, i mean, obviously, if you want to be absolutely safe and secure, don't even take these pictures and don't post and don't share them. but, you know, there's a generational thing, as well.

we're different generations treat the photographs differently and people do these kind of things. you shouldn't live your life online as if everybody's a hacker and steal everything. you have the ability to do this kind of thing. what i disagreed with was the fbi saying people who post these pictures will be prosecuted. if i go online and look at these pictures, the fbi's threatening to prosecute me. they should be going after the people who actually hacked into the accounts and stole them, not average users looking at them. >> and how do they find these people? the real perps. >> the good news on the internet is that there is a digital trail and there's a whole hacker community and people do sort of go after each other online. so there's a lot of digital evidence. it is a question of whether there's enough to be able to find this guy. >> and you're at a computer security conference in sweden. this is only the latest computer issue. we've seen all the foreign

policy and intelligence issues that have emerged in the last couple of years. the computer is, i mean, computer security is a growing issue. also, foreign policy issue for the president, for the administration, from china, from russia. the banks we saw hacked just a week or two ago. where does it end? >> well, it doesn't end. you know, these are tools and part of every day life. and everything that we used to do through physical means, visiting a bank, we do those types of things online so governments have the ability to affect policy and social structure through their regulation of the internet and online activities. and there's no doubt that they're going to keep trying to regulate it and the free market will press against that. so, oppressive governments are oppressive online and offline and we need to have more freedom, more openness and more privacy and those are somewhat contradictory. >> very complicated stuff.

thank you so much for your expertise, mark. thank you for joining us via skype. meanwhile, flight rage. a second incident of reclining seats and the lack of leg room in economy led to a delta flight of new york laguardia to west palm beach making an unscheduled stop in jacksonville, florida. local police took an unruly passenger into custody. no excuse but what about those airlines squeezing the space between rows to maximize the number of passengers on planes? narrator: summer. you know it can't last forever. but that's okay. because a fresh start awaits. with exciting worlds to explore, and challenges yet unmet, new friendships to forge, and old ones to renew. it's more than a job. and they're more than just our students. so welcome back, to the students, and to the educators. ready to teach. and ready to learn.

any regrets, governor? >> is this a nervous moment for you? >> that was former governor bob mcdon knell as the jury begins deliberations today in his corruption trial. pete williams is live for us in

richmond. you were in the courtroom, you heard the judge's instructions. the defense i understand was repeatedly objecting before the jurors were brought in to the way the judge instructed the jury to understand what an official act is or is not. this gets technical and legalistic and very important in terms of how they view the evidence of this trial as they begin their deliberations now. >> well, the jury started deliberating about an hour ago, andrea. it takes several days i think to reach a verdict. here's why. this is the 14 counts and if you just look at count one here, which is the conspiracy to engage in this bribery, you have got a form here, guilty or not guilty for each of the defendants so you multiply those choices by 14 counts and you can see that it's going to take the jury i would say several days to work through this form and decide. but as for the judge's instructions, there was argument about this last week. the defense and the prosecution

had very different ideas about what the law requires the government to prove in order to get a conviction on these bribery counts. and the judge's instructions basically today reflect the argument of the prosecutors brought forth and on that two main points, andrea, that i think the defense would argue in favor of the prosecution here, one says that in order to prove this quid pro quo agreement, all you have to prove is that there was an agreement. not that johnny williams that gave the mcdon knells the $177,000 worth of gifts and cash and loans, not that he actually got anything, but merely, that there was an agreement to help him. whether he got anything out of it or not, the judge instructed the jury, doesn't matter in order to prove this bribery conspiracy. and the second point here, the judge said that even if the mcdonnells had a legal reason

for what they did on his behalf, they talk up the dietary supplement made of tobacco, they urged officials to support it, spoke in favor of the idea of research money for the state and something that johnny williams never did get, but the mcdonnells said the former governor said whatever i did for him, it was normal service. the judge said it doesn't matter if there's a legal justification or a perfectly legal reason to do what he did as long as there was this agreement. so, those two instructions are i think damaging for the defense, favorable for the prosecution. but there's a lot to wade through here. >> and as you know, better than anyone, there are also so many human issues here, how jurors will respond to a defense that basically said it was a bad marriage with the former governor blaming his wife, his estranged wife, whether people

first of all believe that they're estranged or whether it was just sort of made up for the defense because the argument from the defense is, we couldn't have had a conspiracy because we were barely talking to each other and plenty of evidence prior to the trial they were -- >> reporter: she is not a public official. he is a public official. he can be charged with bribery but she had no official acts to perform so the only way to get sucked into this is if the prosecution can prove that there was a conspiracy or an agreement between them to do this on behalf of johnny williams and that was her defense, that they couldn't conspiracy to have coffee. they couldn't agree on anything. >> but, of course, you know, there could be people on the jury who say, wait a second, i don't like the fact that he threw her under the bus and blamed it all on her. people react on juries in very, very unpredictable ways. legal instructions aside, this is very much up in the air and as you point out, the complexity

of the indictments themselves and of the charges could mean this is a lengthy deliberation. >> reporter: yeah. i think that is a given. but you're right. in terms of the human dimension here because robert mcdonnell had a good reputation as governor of virginia and considered a boy scout. he comes into this trial in pretty good shape. he's not like, you know, some states have a tradition of seeing the governors in handcuffs every once in a while. virginia doesn't. and he also had a good reputation. the other side of this, andrea, is they were considered to be a very close couple. a lot of public displays of affection. how will that affect the jury? human dimensions will matter. >> in virginia, taking gifts is not in and of itself illegal. they don't have an ethics law that prohibits that. >> reporter: as long as they disclose them, right. >> thank you, thank you very much, pete in richmond.

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