when is enough, enough? let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight we ask the brutal question, can president obama live with americans being beheaded every two weeks from now until january 20, 2017? this is precisely what the islamic state is threatening. the only question is how the president can top them from doing it.

also on "hardball" tonight some republican can't dates trying to win back women promise over-the-counter birth control pills. the judge in virginia cuts through the mcdonald's desperate legal defense and joe biden musters his troops but we start tonight with this horrific challenge to the united states. how do we, how does the president deal with these beheadings? how does any president sitting in the oval office sleeping in the white house knowing this is going on, that's promise of more beheadings than could at the present rate reach 60 by the next inauguration. does this mean more? in astonia on the eve after nato conference, strong wording stating justice for steven sotloff's killers. >> whatever these murderers think they will achieve by killing innocent americans like steven, then they have already failed. they failed because, like people around the world, americans are repulsed by their barbarism. we will not be intimidated. their horrific acts only unite us as a country and stiffen our resolve to take the fight against these terrorists. and those who make the mistake of harming americans will learn that we will not forget and that our reach is long and that

justice will be served. >> our reach is long and justice will be served. the president didn't lay out how he would do it. some say his rhetorical signals talk about stronger measures to come. listen to his words now. >> our objective is clear. and that is to degrade and destroy isil so it is no longer a threat. not just to iraq but also the region and to the united states. >> degrade and destroy. later the president seemed to soften that language a bit saying goal was to make isis a manageable problem. >> we know that if we are joined by the international community, we can continue to shrink isil's sphere of influence, its effectiveness, its financing. its military capabilities. to the point where it is a manageable problem.

>> a manageable problem. anyway, senator barbara boxer joins us. she sits on the foreign relations committee. sewn tore boxer, what do we do? >> well, i think the president's acting. you know, can you listen to his speeches all day but he has already notified congress in several letters to us that he is going after isis in iraq. he did that to protect americans in iraq and also to free the cities. is he is already acting. and the boots are on ground are not american boots. the airplanes are ours. the intelligence are ours. we have security personnel. but the bots on the ground are iraqi boots and kurdish boots. so that's kind of a way we will move forward. and for those who have complained that the, you know, the president is too deliberative, good lord i want a deliberative president after a decade of war and 4,000 dead americans and tens of thousands wounded. sew is acting. when he sends out a signal like today, you're not going to get away with what you've done, he

means it. i've seen him capture bin laden. i've seen him go after the terrorists that brought benghazi on us. and he is continuing to do that in africa. so he means what he says even though he may be calm and wear a tan suit, he means what he says. >> what about in syria doing these beheadings. we've been listening to them, especially the fellow with the english accent. they have who knows how many possible captives. you say hit them in iraq. what stops them from doing what they are doing in syria? >> the president is putting together a strategy. for working on the syria issue. the fact is it's got to be done carefully with the coalition. isis is a threat to the world, chris, to the civilized world. to t.o. that region, to other muslims, the most people they've killed are muslims. so he is moving forward.

and in syria, i happened to meet in turkey recently, like a month ago, with the head there against bashir al-assad and they will work with boots on the ground in syria. and i think that's all happening. we're not going to sit back and this president isn't going to sit back. he is acting in iraq. he is putting together a strategy. he did say in an inartful way. a better way to put it is i'm working on a winning strategy to go after isil. it is happening chris, already. this is a tragic moment in history. you can't imagine now we would see this barbarism, but we're seeing it. and anyone in the world who can justify it is an outliar. so we can put together a coalition and go after these people. frankly, we have to. >> let's look at what general

zinni said on "meet the press" this sunday. let's look at this and you react to what you hear. here he is on "meet the press" on sunday. i talked about two brigades, he said, of american soldiers meeting isis. you watch and then react, please. >> the boots on the ground question is a tough one. i wish we weren't so paranoid about boots on the ground. we can't even define it. there be forces, people that can call in and adjust fire and advisers to be with these units. and very simply put, if you put two brigades on the ground, they would push isis back into syria under a heart beat and probably take less time, less cost, and i think fewer cash casualties he over all. >> the question is, do you want to do something like that or not. >> my position is that we are going after isis on the theory this is counterterrorism. i won't vote to put combat boots on the ground after what we've been through. and i think a better strategy is

the strategy that the president is putting together. we are there with intelligence, under with counterterrorism, there with secure it to protect our people. we have boots on the ground, people in the region who have more at stake than anybody who know the region. that's what i think is happening right now. and i think it is showing that it is working so far in iraq. you know, too soon to know but it's looking much better. so i think that that's the strategy. i'm not going to go back to sending troops back into iraq, combat troops. i just won't do that and i don't think there is a stomach for it in the country or congress. or frankly, this president. i don't think he wants it. >> i think you're right. thank you very much, senator barbara boxer. joining me right now is david rode, investigative reporter at reuters. i think you just heard it, that is fairly representative, right and left of congress. they don't want boots on the ground.

they don't want regiments of soldiers there, they don't want it. >> is that going to create a long term solution here? americans can go in and clear the area but as soon as they lead, the state comes back. that's my argument. what do you do to stop beheadings. >> you can't. >> this president goes to bed every night knowing the next day, next wednesday, whatever, that there will be another beheading. how do you stop them from doing what they are doing, is my question. >> there is no way to stop them with the people they have. the troops they sent in is too protect the americans in the baghdad embassy and in erbil. there are thousands of people in that embassy. there are helicopters. that's what he is doing is stopping more americans from being hurt in the islamic state. >> there are journalist, missionaries over there, straggling hikers. a lot of americans they can get their hands on. >> it's true. but that's the broader problem

with kidnapping. european governments page huge ransoms up to $10 million per prisoner. the u.s. and brits, we don't pay the ransoms. we seem to accept that if you fall into this situation, you know, you may die. >> i don't know if you're getting at my point. there's a nationalistic reaction. this is not a criminal act by one group of people against a couple of our people. it is an attack on our country. how does the president stop this attack on our country. this humiliation, taunting of him and our country by beheading people on international television. they are sending us pictures of this. and we just, what? wait for the sunnis to get together because we can't move the shia into that part of the world and the kurds only defend their area? so how do we get into that part of iraq and syria where the state of islam, islam state, is created right in our face right now. there is no sunny coming in from jordan or saudi arabia. all that money we have spent for

years and nobody is coming in to fight these people. the senator said, nobody likes them, they're not doing anything about it. >> i agree. the rhetorical problem you point out is this a barbaric and we will bring justice here. but then we make it a manageable problem. i don't know how the american public will react if these public beheadings continue. he will stop them by preventing less people from being captured. i don't have an answer. i think if you send american troops into stop beheadings, 8,000 pro brigade niece eastern syria, i don't know if americans would support that. >> yeah. so where are we at, expert? >> so no. this is the problem. this is what you do in hostage cases. can you do rescue raid which they attempted. we have been dealing with this for decades. what do you do? pay ransom? >> okay, let me suggest something. this has been said in years of mideast funding.

the brits before us and soviets. okay we pull out, have stand back weapons. used to be artillery, now it is air fire. so we think we can just drop bombs and skip away to aircraft carrier. oh, no, they figured out something. they can grab americans and execute them. send us pictures. flaunt it and there is nothing we can do about it. this idea we fly over countries and can't get hurt by them is wrong. they have proven it is wrong. boots on the ground is not the only way to get to america. >> are we at war or not at war? and the president shifts back and forth. you know, a lot of americans don't want to be at war. is this an existential threat or not -- >> well, let's stop with that. an existential threat, that americans will be wiped from the planet. call it the united states.

>> all right. >> and attacks on the -- stop with the neocon language. it is the united states. it is not existential. this is netanyahu talking, let's stop that. israel faces that sometimes. >> the islamic state carries out attacks in new york or americans who fought and start coming home. i agree, there is no consensus, are we at war or are we not? >> yeah. >> you say we are. >> i think we are when they start beheading people. i think that's the sign they are taunting us and they are out to get us. thank you. a problem with women voters and a trio of candidates taking an unsuspecting step to fix it. they support birth control pills over the counter. no prescriptions. no side effects. don't worry. is that smart. a jury delivering the fate of bob mcdonnell and his wife, of course. the judge devastated the defense yesterday by telling the jurors that anything mcdonnell did as

governor nor somebody could be considered an official act and therefore a quid for the quo. and with a less than impressive roll out this summer, does joe biden think he has a shot? and advertising that vapid granolas who fear guns will not be comfortable here. it's the usual suspect. that right winger, steve stockman of texas. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." a tree of republican candidates are trying to get into the fight for women, pushing back against the perception that the gop is out of touch when it comes to women's issues. out in colorado, republican challenger, mark udall and corey gardner wants to make contraception for women available over counter without prescription. here is gardner's new ad. >> i believe the pill aught to be available over the counter. round the clock. without a prescription. cheaper, and easier for you. >> it's a big reversal for gardner who support for anti-abortion measures like the person hood amendment has dogged them in this race. on march just after announcing his campaign to challenge it all, gardner told the denver

post that his support for a person hood amendment was a mistake. gardner called it a bad idea driven by good intentions. gardner's new proposal was with rick santorum who had this to say about birth control last time around. >> one of the things i will talk about, that the president has talked about before, is i think the dangers of contraception. the whole sexual libber teen idea that many in the christian faith say oh, that's okay. contraception is okay. that's not okay. it's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. >> gop strategist and former adviser to rick santorum's campaign and david corn, political analysis. is this a turning of the tables by candidates by corey gardner and gallespie and virginia elsewhere and mcfadden, congressional candidate to say,

no, we're not against women and birth control pills. in fact we will make it like buying anything else in the store. you don't need a doctor to get a prescription. what's that -- how does that fit with the santorum thing about birth control being troubling? >> let's be clear about this. i do not know a single candidate in the entire country who's republican, including rick santorum, that in any way wants to limit or end birth control for women. so to imply otherwise would be morally wrong. number two the only distinct here between corey guard are in's position and other candidates you mentioned is the argument of whether it should be allowed without a prescription or with a prescription being required. that is really the difference. then third of all, one of the reasons that somebody like a corey gardner has to even do an ad like this is because the democrats have spent probably a billion dollars at this point trying to mislead people on this whole war on women which is an outrage and unfair to actually women more than anybody.

>> just to stay on this subject with you, why do you think doctors require prescription? why does the law require prescription? i understand i'm no expert and none of us are probably here, about the side effects of birth control pills. you don't just take them like family or other food product. you don't take them without medical concern. so say lucy goosy oh, everybody can buy them, it seems odd for them who have shown restraint. in fact your guy in the last election, rick santorum pointed out, it is a problem, a license do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be. that's a strong statement for a guy running for president and go loosey-goosey in this other direction and say we will give them away like any other product we sell in a store. that's a hell after 180. >> i don't think so. i think what rick santorum is referring to is when we advertise to young girls that solution to everything is just don't worry about it, there's contraception, it is no longer about contraception, it is about

what is the responsibility that we have to our children. second of all, again, like yourself, i'm not a medical doctor, i know dosages can change from person to person. on prescriptions. and so then the argument needs to become is it the right thing to do or not to have it over the counter. that's where the real argument is. but to try to somehow make it a pro or anti-women is just plain wrong. >> are you for making it over-the-counter? like buying anything? buying cereal, buy milk, buy anything? why have it in pharmacy? is that what you're for? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> no, your answer. >> look, i'm not running for office. last thing i'm going to do is sit here and tell what you i believe. no one watching your show particularly cares, what i -- >> they do care. >> it is clear that what is

going on here is despite john's protesting, a lot have come to the conclusion that it is not good for women health policy possess. it is defining rape and economic issues, not supporting paying bills and the hobby lobby decision. whether being in favor or against them, it is clear a verdict is reached. not because the democratic party brain washed millions of women but because women look and watch what is going on and they feel their issues are not being addressed as they would like to by the republican party which is why you have corey gardner in colorado who supported the person hood bill which ends up banning certain forms of birth control. now running to this over the countor thing and saying oh, i made a mistake. you know, again and again, he's trying to separate himself from this general theme that is weighing down the republican party, that even in the autopsy, after the 2012 election, they

say we have to did a better job reaching out to women. so it is not brain washing, it is women voters and caring about women issues reacting to republican actions. >> let me tell you something, john. i'm an pal of yours but i like you being on the show and meeting you and hanging out with you. let me tell you something, all of the women i work with, they don't even like the conversation. they don't like the fact that three guys are talking about birth control. >> they are right. >> they say all these guys want to have sex when they go out but and don't want to take responsibility. some don't. and women have to take responsibility for birth control and deal with it in a society that doesn't make it easy to deal with unwanted children. i don't even like the term unwanted children. we don't even know what contraception really means. all of this is hard to talk about on television all this talk about personhood and

santorum bringing up birth control in the last campaign nobody else brought it up but your guy. >> in fairness to rick he brought it up when he was asked about it and rick is one of these people that will not duck questions. and he will answer it. the bigger problem quite frankly is that the approach to when they start to lose elections they immediately start to say there must be a war on women. that's our fall back card. let me ask you a question. have you seen a single democrat -- have you seen a single democrat -- >> national security and there's a lot of republican fall back. they're not tough enough on -- >> let's take the question. john has a question. >> john is insulting women by saying they can be played this easily by the political party. >> no, that's how democrats try do it. i think women are smarter than that. >> then why are they voting for democrats if they are smarter. >> let me ask you a question, why are democrats not running

any pro obama care ads? have you seen a single candidate run a pro obama ad? why aren't senate democrats bringing in the president to campaign for them? they don't have things that are positive so this is their fall back. let's just try to make something up and say that the republicans are anti-women and i think that's a very unfair political charge, quite frankly. >> but it works. >> i don't think it -- >> okay, so let's do it because it -- >> i'm asking you -- >> people who watch republicans make stupid comments about rape, who watch them support hobby lobby decision, it resonates because there is a basis. watch republicans oppose the lilly led better act and watch them oppose some of the best parts of obama care that women actually support at higher rates than men do. john, you just can't say that women are suckers here. >> well, one way -- >> john, you make a good point

on obama care, by the way. good counter point. i want to ask you this, do you think it is smart for republicans to have all this on their platform next time. you bring it up, personhood and all that stuff. do you want all that stuff in your platform in 2016 if you are up against hillary clinton, and all this stuff you're for in the cultural area, do you think it'll help you beat hillary clinton? >> what i think the republican party has to be careful is that they are not singular defined on these issues and spend a heck of a lot more time about how they will work hard and help middle class families. and i don't think the republican party has done enough in talking about that. i think that would be a good conversation. >> you know what republican party problem is? more than half of the voters are women. thank you. >> that's okay. >> you're not in a law firm. anyway, texas law firm looking for interns as long as they

aren't, this is stockman, vapid granolas. this is "hardball," a place for politics.

it's rumored that next week the new iphone is going to come out. that's exciting. new iphone. yeah! you know, it's going to come with a larger screen, more memory and can leak celebrity photos twice as fast. >> time now for the side show. that's conan o'brien commenting on the celebrity hacking scandal. here is notable reactions those controversial photo leaks. >> chris christie said, i'd love vladimir putin said, don't judge size of my gun during hacked pic.

it was during cold war. and finally, anthony weiner said, please no one look at my leaked photos, especially on unhack my phone at 616-555-0100. let me know if you need my pin. it's 1969. wide variety of opinions -- >> wow, next up, outgoing u.s. congressman steve stockman, texas might be leaving the house come january but according to the washington post the republican of texas is looking to fill an unpaid internship for his few remaining months in office. only thing is the ultra conservative congressman outlined what appears to be a litmus test to weed out applicants. quote, candidates will be true patriots who can count up to 17 in trillions and care more about future generations than they do about sucking up to current leadership.

hint, vapid granolas who fear guns, hate babies, ashamed of americans and think terrorists and illegal aliens are just misunderstood will not be comfortable here. glad he cleared all that up. fine finally that didn't stop him from jokingly asking out of state residents to cross state lines to come vote for him on election day. he mate that whimsical remark on the howie carr show on boston's wrko radio. here is a listen. >> ask scott why people should vote for him instead of the other gop candidates. that's from vermont. actually. >> well, sure. the first -- where is it from? vermont? >> yeah, 860. >> they can come over and do same-day registration and say they want to come down and vote so if they feel compelled to do so come on down. >> is 860 connecticut? i'm not sure. >> wherever it is, they can come up.

>> i'm amazed at how well senator brown is doing in this race. he could just pull this thing off. up next, judge sinks the host of bob mcdonnell. jury's deliberating the case and that's next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball" hall. the fate of bob mcdonnell and his wife is in the jury's hands as we speak. this is the second day in this corruption trial. i said the key would be the judge's instructions to the jury before they went to decide and the judge here, james r. spencer, gave deliberate and explicit instructions that many say were bad news for the former governor. the "new york times" described it this way. mr. mcdonnell's defense argued the things he did for mr. williams such as inducing him to officials in his cabinet were official courtesies, not official acts. the judge objected that argument. he told jurors that official actions were not just a government nor's job description by codified by law they also are established by subtle practice as part of public office. that is seemingly everything related to a governor's administration. that's a much broader definition of official acts than the

defense wanted to hear. and could lead a jury to a guilty verdict on the corruption charges and lots of time in prison. michelle bernard is president and ceo of the bernard sent for public policy. robert has been covering the story for the post. why did the instructions here basically screw the defense? because i think they did. i'm an lawyer, you are. >> that's the conventional wisdom that jury instructions screw the defense. basically anything in the governor did in his official capacity is. equally important at least in my opinion is the fact that judge also said to the jury give any weight that you want to the character evidence. you know, we will assume we have a highly educated jury pool that will say, that will sort of look at this from a reasonable man's

standpoint and say, did he really commit an act that's illegal when every governor in the country does the things that governor mcdonnell did. with the exception of accepting these lavish gifts. >> here we have a if the cat hanging around the governor, his wife especially, does favors. gets him a watch for 7 or $8,000. trips new york to buy designer clothing, whatever. all these little favorites, things he is doing for her. and the governor gives him a little of his time and whatever. >> and suggests that a couple of his aides, you know, meet with him or his people and -- >> access. >> yes, access. all about access. and also let him set a big chunk of the guest list for an event at the mansion where they were honoring local health care leaders and i think the defense of the mcdonnell's people they want official acts to be defined as proposing a bill or giving -- >> and the judge -- >> i'm going back, everyone watching would love this conversation. every time you see this estate dinner, always looking to see

who is invited. now a few reporters invited once in a while but mostly fat cats. >> exactly. people who have given money to the people in office and they come to french dinner and -- >> ambassador -- >> all of that is official. the president official invites you while the food is paid for by the president's allowance. >> and you hope you got some because you gave a lot of money. >> you want it said in the paper you were there. you want to stride around that you were at the president's dinner. >> is that legal -- >> and hoping you get some big fat government contract. i think that's a stretch. let's assume that he is convicted on the conspiracy to defraud accounts. i don't think they will go down to conspiracy counts but let's assume that they do.

and jury instruction is given a guilty person reason for a very good appeal. >> know question about that. >> what's wrong with the trial? >> the jury instructions are too broad. everything that you do is illegal. >> is there any chance, just to hype this up, maybe you can't, is there any chance he will swing but not his wife? he was the official donor out of public advantages? >> i think if he does, it is on the bank fraud charge. i think that's the only charge that can possibly stick to mcdonnell that they allege he purposely left out of a loan application that he submitted the fact he received a loan from the big fat cat. i think $50,000 loan at that point in time. >> they threw that in for -- they threw the book at him. maybe that's the jury's way out. >> the bank charge is what made this come into federal court in the first place. >> he wrote this, technically he did provide a false statement to the bank. >> but he -- >> but what makes it look bad is that after they found out that they were under investigation, after the fbi had come calling, then they went -- >> can we get back to the sexy stuff here. do you think the defense, they have a wrecked marriage, unhappy marriage, couldn't have conspired. an amazing thing. though they could have conspired to break the law.

they didn't like each other or talk to each other, you think that will work this is. >> no. it's possible -- it will give you reasonable doubt, i think, that it could hurt the governor in the long run because there are four women jurors sitting there. there are men on the jury that have to go home to their wives. have you a spat with your spouse, you can't stand your spouse but they let you ride around in the ferrari and give you a gold rolex watch and you throw them under the bus. i think that's a problem for the governor. >> so the jury might think this is about their life. >> look, they have her testimony that she didn't like being a political wife. he was running around the state. he was never home. she was home taking care of all those children by herself. >> so he is finally catching the guy asleep and he a he gone. >> go ahead. >> my problem is with what whole defense is that he said in his own testimony, that she did a great job and all of her public appearances --

>> okay can you pick the jury? can you pick it? conviction or acquittal? >> i think it is unlikely he will be acquit owned everything. he is most likely to be on the bank fraud. >> can she walk? >> i think she can walk. she has a better chance of watching because she wasn't the public -- >> she has something outside corruption charges too. there is a lot of evidence against her on obstruction of justice charge. >> you're talking jury nullification. i don't like this whole thing. >> they have to have a unanimous decision and i don't think you will get it. you can't prove 14 counts beyond a reasonable doubt. >> what about her -- >> she's not the big fish. >> thank you. thank you fred ryan is a good guy. up. in, joe biden couldn't have been too impressed by hillary clinton's book roll-out this summer, apparently. why else is the veep out there

acting like a presidential candidate? this is "hardball" a place for politics. mmm, progressive insurance here. ever since we launched snapshot, my life has been positively cray-cray. what's snapshot, you ask? only a revolutionary tool that can save you big-time. just plug it in, and the better you drive, the more cash you'll stash. switching to progressive can already save ye $500. snapshot could save ye even more. meat maiden! bringeth to me thine spiciest wings of buffalo.

remember the controversy about new jersey's stronger than the storm tv ads? they were the ones that prominently featured governor chris christie last summer when he was running for reelection. the campaign ads cost the state more than a campaign ad proposed by another firm that didn't plan on using the governor in a picture. it was found that nothing

improper was done but followed the state on a technicality for not following federal procurement rules. we'll be right back.

we're back. as we saw this summer, hillary clinton's rocky book tour was hardly a coronation for the presumptive 2016 presidential nominee and washington post reports today that a group of vice president biden's former campaign staffers will meet later this month as part after conveniently timed well timed reunion. after watching the disastrous hillary clinton campaign launch and surveying the rest of the democratic field biden who has run for president twice before might well be expected to do preliminary work here. more than just a meeting of the minds apparently biden has quietly been making rounds with fund raiser in the democratic

party and also putting a bit of a distance between himself and the president at least in rhetoric decibel. sounded like he could be a candidate him self. this is biden rousing crowds of supporters on monday to help him as he put it take back america. >> one of the reasons we're not growing is because ordinary people have no money in their pockets for their wages. they are not being rewarded. folks, the american people have not stopped dreaming. the american people have not walked away from what they believe they're entitled to just give them a chance. no hand-outs, just give them a chance. because once you give americans a chance, they have never, never, never, never ever let their country down. never! so folks, it's time to take back america, as we say. >> matthew littman a

speechwriter for senator biden and presidential candidate biden and perry bacon a reporter from nbc news. thank you for coming on. what did you make of that speech by your former boss there? that's one hell of a get out the vote. biden was in new hampshire today, sounding like he could be a candidate himself. this is biden rousing crowds much supporters on monday to help him take back america. >> one of the reasons we're not growing is because ordinary people have no money in their pockets for their wages. they are not being rewarded. folks, the american people have not stopped dreaming. the american people have not walked away from what they believe they are entitled to, just give them a chance. no handout, just give them a chance. once you give americans a chance, they have never, never, never, ever let their country down. never. it's time to take back america. >> matthew lip man was a speech writer for speaker biden and candidate biten. thank you for coming on. what did you make of that speech by your former boss. that is one great get out the vote. who is he taking it back, from obama? just a thought, these words come out of your mind -- your head too quickly, people might say, take it back means grab it. go ahead, your thoughts. >> i think that biden should consider very seriously running for president, he's totally -- he's more qualified -- how could anybody be more qualified than joe biden to be president. he was the head of two committees in congress, he's accomplished an amazing amount. he's the vice president. obama's office is down the hall. if i were joe biden, i'd be out

there speaking too about what i might want to do if i were going to be president. i don't know whether biden is going to run or not. but shouldn't he want to run? >> you are trying to talk me into this? every reporter in this town, left, right and center that wants this to happen. >> martin o'malley, brian schweizer -- >> vice president biden is very qualified. you look at what he's done in his career. that said, i don't think he should run. when i talk to democratic crowds, they're excited about two people. hillary, elizabeth warren and kristen gillibrand. >> who do they want as our next president someone who scant do it legally, bill clinton. >> that's correct. >> let's look at the rhetoric here. vice president biden began to distance himself at least rhetorically from president obama. early today, the president said, one of the goals when it comes to fighting isis is to make them a manageable problem. compare that to what biden said

to crowds in new hampshire just earlier today, he vowed to fight isis to the gates of h lew hell. she said basically the same thing late today, she tweeted, catch this, she tweeted, do not believe isil is manageable, agree these terrorists must be chased. it seems to me that biden is starting to lead the cheering section here for the end of it seems to me that biden is starting to lead the cheering section here for the end of isis, and the president's being a manager. >> not so. and you saw mark warner, al franken, these are democrats -- who are attacking obama, it's like we're in 2000 -- >> they feel like he's not popular, they can get his number up by talking to him. every republican went out of their way to say how much they don't like george bush.

obama is feeling well now. >> if the vice president is going to go after the former secretary of state in this race, doesn't the he have to announce before she makes the announcement. if he waits until she makes the announcement, he's jumping into a race that's already got a shape to it. he's shaping the field, she has to jump into that race. it doesn't make any sense to me why he would wait, unless he's secretly not intending to run against hillary clinton. in that case, he'll wait until after she's announced. if he's thinking about it, he would have to run ahead of her. >> hillary may not announce foy a while. if biden wants to run, he should probably announce sooner and get out there. he's been traveling around the country as if he is. >> why not run? >> i agree, i think he should run. biden is going to see the polls and he sees that hillary is way ahead in the polls, if you put the two of them in a debate face to face, you're talking about

the two big heavyweights in the party and let the people decide who is a better candidate. the people who vote in the democratic party have to decide what they want out of the next president. biden has accomplished almost everything you can in congress and as a vice president. and let's see him run against hillary, hillary shouldn't be -- we should have a debate. >> you know, we have one big thing going for him. he'll go in as the underdog. that's a good place to be. i'm dead serious. >> the underdog is who you root for. >> the other thing is, after he -- let's say he debates hillary, and does pretty well in the debate against hillary, he would be able to start raising money off of that, i'm 99% sure. >> i think -- we'll see, i'm waiting to see how good a candidate hillary is. i think if she comes out on the track with a great speech, great momentum and excitement about herself and the true person we know her to be she'll be very hard to beat. if she comes off as stiff and

awkward and makes these mistakes like biden does, it will be more of a race. this could be the battle of the gaps. thank you so much, we'll be right back after this.

let me finish with the biden question, by 2016, he will have been vice president for two terms. he's run for president twice. as someone said once, it's easier to run for president than to stop. will he go at it again before he quits?

he will be two doors, a couple dozen steps from sitting down at that oval office desk himself. i often remind people how presidents are elected in this country. we don't pick them, they pick themselves. then we get the job of deciding which of the men and women should win. we wait for the various egoes to go to work, and then we pick which one will silt in the oval office. sometime in the next several months, joe biden will have to decide if he wants to be one of our choices. it will be entirely his decision. that's why this getting together of his team is a little bit of a hint that he's got that decision on his mind and intends to keep

it there. the prime minister is picked by his or her peers. it's not systematic, it's phenomenal. it's not a group decision, it's a personal one. it's why people like you and i find the topic irresistible. that's hardball for now, thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight, we are all in. >> our objective is clear. and that is to degrade and destroy isil. >> the march to war. the president vows action on isis, as congress demands a vote to authorize military intervention. tonight we'll talk to a u.s. senator and look at the flip side of intervention. then the smearing of michael brown. who is trying to obtain his juvenile criminal records and for what purpose? >> sometime i felt like giving up and stuff. i said, i can't do that. exonerated, two half brothers spent 30 years in