as that story develops. i'll see you back here on monday, 4:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for spending time with us. the ed show is up next. don't miss that. take care. >> live from detroit lakes minnesota, let's get to work. >> we affirmed the central mission of the alliance. >> any force able to deploy at very short notice. >> very high readiness joint task force. >> armed attack against one shall be considered an attack against them all. >> nato protects all allies at all times. >> binding obligation. it is not negotiable. >> solving the crisis of sovereignty in eastern ukraine. >> reassuring allies in eastern europe. >> process of disengagement with russian troops leaving ukraine. >> declare a cease-fire.

>> part of that cease-fire agreement. >> rise to meet the challenges we face in the 21st century. >> take all of the steps necessary to put the squeeze on isil. >> destruction of isil. >> degrade and ultimately defeat isil. >> very strong message, very clear message. >> do whatever is necessary to ensure our collective defense. good to have you with us tonight, thanks for watching, only time will tell how successful this trip actually was, it was awfully important. president obama wrapping up the visit to wales earlier today, the goal clear, to go there and build international support team for fighting isis and dealing with russia over the conflict in ukraine. >> coming to an end. russia's aggression -- >> the president gave a president conference this afternoon about the summit.

president obama said nato will firmly stand behind ukraine. nato was preparing a rapid response team to deal with russia. the president also said they are ready to move further against the russians if need be. >> today the united states and europe are finalizing measures to deepen and broaden our sengss against the energy and defense sectors and at the same time we strongly support president pore shen co-'s effort to secure a peaceful resolution to the conflict in his country. the cease-fire announced thd can advance that goal but only if there is follow-through on the ground. pro-russian separatists must keep their commitments and russia must stop its violations of ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. >> president obama said sanctions on russia are definitely working. >> the only reason that we're seeing this cease-fire at this

moment is because of both the sanctions that have already been applied and the threat of further sanctions, which are having a real impact on the russian economy and have isolated russia in a way we have not seen in a very long time. the path for russia to rejoin the community of nations that respects international law is still there. and we encourage president putin to take it. >> and president obama spent a good deal of time addressing the isis threat. today the united states says it's forming a core coalition to be a rapid response team, to battle isis in iraq. the united states calling for a broad support from allies and partners from around the world. so far countries include the united kingdom, france, germany, canada, australia, turkey, italy and poland and denmark, all very important. the president said in today's press conference, every member of nato recognizes isis as a

threat. >> there was u.n. nimty over the last two days that isil poses a significant threat to nato members. and there was a recognition that we have to take action. i did not get any resistance or pushback to the basic notion that we have a critical role to play in rolling back this savage organization that is causing so much chaos in the region and is harming so many people. >> president made very clear the international community must act to destroy isis. >> there's great conviction that we have to act as part of the international community to degrade and ultimately destroy isil and that was extremely encouragin encouraging. beyond that what we have already

seen is significant support from a variety of member states for significant actions we've been taking in iraq. keep in mind, we've taken already 100 strikes in iraq that have had a significant impact on degrading their capabilities. >> so this is nation building, is it not? it's coalition building. it's getting a lot of countries together to do what is going to be a very heavy lift. now let's all remember president obama was elected to get us out of war and do something about the budget and he's done it. not lead us into more conflicts although the circumstances clearly have changed and now he stands in a cross roads challenging his legacy on foreign policy. what do you do? you have to get back and get other people involved, which is exactly what he said he was going to do. with the change in circumstances, the white house may be reversing its position and policy on dealing with boots

on the ground are we getting mixed signals here? deputy national security adviser ben rhodes told chris jansing the white house snts ruling anything out. >> can you do it in syria without boots on the ground? >> we're looking at what's going to be necessary. we've said clearly you need a strategy on both sides of the border, this is an organization that operates without respect for borders. >> you're not ruling that out? >> we're not ruling that out. we're providing military assistance to syrian opposition who is the strongest counterweight on ground to isil and look at what additional options are necessary going forward. >> i just heard him say we're not ruling that out meaning there might be a time when the united states have to put boots on the ground to defeat isis. the question is are we getting mixed messages this evening? earlier today john kerry said nato defense meeting, quote,

obviously i think that's a red line for everybody here. no boots on the ground. okay, what does that mean? does that mean that nobody in the room wants to put boots on the ground or does it mean that if we have to, we will put boots on the ground? vice president joe biden says we're going to follow these people to the gates of hell. i'm not trying to manufacturer a controversy here but i have to be somewhat critical, i'm not sure we're getting the straight talk on exactly how far we're going to go. onening is clear, when congress returns from the recess in august, here we go, of course, the united states plan of action on isis is going to be heavily deba debated. why don't we just say, we'll do whatever it takes to defeat isis. right now it's air strikes, there's been 100, might be a lot more. we'll do whatever it takes. does that mean boots on the ground? we'll do whatever it takes.

get some bullet points, don't be confusing and don't say nobody at this table doesn't want to boots on the ground because that tells me well, i don't know how good this coalition is. get your cell phones out. tonight's question, do you think the president has his team on the same page? text a for yes and b for now, 67622 and go to our blog and leave a comment there. we'll bring you results later on in the show. for me, let me bring in former vermont governor and dnc chair, howard dean. good to have you with us tonight. i want your analysis of the news unfolding from the nato conference and different things we're hearing. maybe we're overplaying this but i don't feel i'm getting the straight talk and i want your impressions of what's unfolding. >> first of all, i actually am a big supporter of obama doctrine, which this is an example of.

no president can say we're not going to do this or that. everybody has to say all options are on the table. now, i don't think we're going to have boots on ground. and here's why and here's why i think the president means it. first of all, we have learned painfully since vietnam, learning it in afghanistan and certainly learned painfully in iraq, that boots on the ground don't really help in the long term. if we want to succeed long term against isis or any other cult crazy people and that's what these people are, not islamists, i wish the press would stop calling them militants in islamists, they are no more muslims than i am in what they are doing and any muslim scholar will tell you that. it is a violent cult that's well financed. if you want to stop them, you can't do that without the will of the sane people on the ground, of the sunni, kurds and shia to stop them. so i don't think it makes any sense for us to have boots on the ground because if they are

not willing to take over their own country back, we can't do that for them. i do think air support makes a tremendous amount of sense. i think coalitions make a tremendous amount of sense. >> so, how important was it for the president on this trip in your opinion to build this coalition? he's been very patient and senator feinstein said maybe too cautious, your thoughts? >> well, you know, it's easy to criticize the president and people do it all the time, but if you look at the overall bent of our new foreign policy when we don't do things unilaterally and when we -- you see the terrible price we're paying for iraq, none of this would be happening if george bush hadn't sent troops into iraq ten years ago. >> no doubt. >> i think the president is careful and thoughtful and methodical, i don't have a lot of differences with what he's doing. i think he's handling russia very well. i do think he needs to put sanctions on. i think this cease-fire is mostly a employ to keep the

sanctions off. he's got to put sanctions on and take them off if russia behaves itself. there's no evidence that russia will behave. i like what the president is doing and like the deliberation and thoughtfulness and no boots on the ground. >> what do you think the debate and conversation in congress will look like when they come back and start talking about isis sns. >> you think john kerry wants to go out and play golf as soon as he can. i don't think they are going to have serious conversation whatsoever. you see the partisan attacks from the republicans, all they care about is blaming the president right before the election. >> former governor howard dean, i appreciate your time, thank you. let me bring in jonathan alter. you wrote an interesting piece about how important you thought this trip was. is this a defining moment for when it comes to nation building and coalition building to fight

what we're now faced with as a country? your thoughts? >> well, we don't really know yet. the proof will come in the next weeks and months. if these lines that the president has drawn very strongly this week, if they hold and he can get nato to back them with whatever measures are appropriate, be they sanctions or troop maneuvers in the case of isis or air strikes, if the follow-onto the nato conference is appropriate and what the president has indicated it's going to be then this will be seen as an important leadership moment for this president. a lot of what's happened in the press and saying there was no strategy, gaffes that some people considered to be a big deal those will all fade into insignificantance if the basic policy of muscular

multilateralism, if that holds, then august and september of 2014 will be seen as a time when the obama doctrine really proved to be effective. >> do you think from all of the reports that tfgs an effective conference that the president gets mission accomplished to get over there and get people on board to collectively do what has to be done? >> i do think there was -- they were all on the same page on this. there clearly had been a lot of prep work before this conference so they could roll out certain things, for instance, the president and prime minister cameron wrote an important article in a london newspaper that really explained how the united states and great britain and rest of our nature toe allies were really in the same place, that there wasn't an inch of difference between the nations on these really very important policies.

i think what some americans who maybe are paying attention to other things don't quite understand this is really history knocking at the door. this is a big -- this is a big deal when you have russia trying to show that might makes right, which is what civil iszed nations have been fighting against for more than 100 years. and that idea that might makes right. then meanwhile in the middle east you have bar bear yans trying to turn back clock to the 12th century. the 12th century muslims make these butchers look pretty good by comparison. make the 12th century guys look good by comparison. this is evil in our time. and so while we're coming back from vacation, we all have to recognize that when evil does appear, it must be combatted. >> all right, jonathan alter, good to have you with us

tonight. i appreciate your time. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter and facebook. we want to know what you think. coming up, there are new questions surrounding the death of comedian and entertainer joan rivers. plus hillary clinton gave a huge speech on energy but failed to mention something very important. jane cleb tells us where clinton missed the mark and what happened in nebraska with the state supreme court. we'll bring you the latest on a tragic plane crash off the shores of jamaica that killed a prominent real estate developer from new york. we're right back. we are a collection of smalls. a home saved. a hero homebound for a new opportunity. a kitchen that kick starts careers wells fargo invests in our communities a little differently. small measures that add up to make our whole even greater.

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follow the ed team on twitter, like us on facebook and you can get my podcast at wegoted and also at rawstory.com and itunes. the ed show social media nation decided and we are reporting, here are the top trenders voted on by you. >> the number three trender, try again. >> not just a fall but a tumble from grace for the once rising star of the republican party. >> mcdonnell was found guilty on 11 of 13 corruption charges against him. >> the former governor plans to appeal his corruption conviction. >> mcdonnell and his wife maureen face up to 30 years in prison. >> had to do with lavish gifts and loans worth $180,000. >> as if jonni williams were the personal atm. >> creepy crawler, number two. >> it's okay. >> internet prank artist in

poland happened to -- >> later he strung up a fake web and took the scare to an entirely new level. >> it's sticky. >> the facebook declares insane people are the best and he's proving it again. >> most everyone is mad here. >> today's top trenders. >> joan rivers was brash and bold and trailblazers. >> the 81-year-old died a week after going into cardiac arrest. >> investigators look into the death of comedy legend joan rivers. >> medical experts in new york are investigating what cause her to stop breathing during a routine medical procedure. >> the new york state health department is launching an investigation into the clinic. >> was life saving equipment readily available. if so, was it used? >> the medical association that

are credited, they are now reviewing their decision. >> joining us tonight, dr. nancy snyderman, nbc news chief medical examiner. dr., good to have you with us tonight, i appreciate it. >> you bet. >> they do an autopsy. the cause of death undetermined. how troubling is that? >> well, we don't really know everything yet because this death happened unexpectedly, the things the doctors are going to be looking for on the autopsy will be medications in her system, was there some kind of drug interaction and could gastric acid from her stomach have gotten into her vocal chords and lungs and caused problems? specific things like that are needed to nail this down. unfortunately at this point, we can do a lot of monday morning quarterbacking but the only people who know exactly what happened are the doctors nurses and assistants in the room that day. >> could we come to the

conclusion, doctor, that if she had not had this procedure, she would still be alive? >> most likely. there are 8 million upper gi endoscopies done every year and the safety record is pretty darn good. if you look at the deaths most can be attributed to the anesthesia issue. it raises the question about age and clinic and medications being used and what happened. we certainly can assume that she lost her air way, it was some time before she was able to be stabilized enough to transfer to the hospital and be admitted to the intensive care unit at mt. sinai. what transpired to trigger this? that will be the point of the investigation. having spoken to countless physicians, this clinic is well known and recognized and staffed. whether there was a big medical

error that happened to good doctors or there was a terrible mistake and who's responsible, this is not going to be held quietly. these things will come to the surface and will be able to really then figure out exactly what happened and make some sense out of this and some kind of bizarre way. it's a very, very tragic. >> but obviously patients before these procedures are well versed on the risk, are they not? joan rivers probably knew exactly what she was getting into, it was not always going to be perfect. >> she made fun of the fact that she was more than a casual patient. she's had many, many, many procedures and i always worry when patients have had lots of procedures that take some things for granted. this should have been a simple diagnostic end scopepy to look at her vocal chords and maybe her stomach and something went

wrong. it is a real reminder that there are no free passes sometimes. that every procedure, no matter how simple can have terrible my indications. if your doctor suggests a procedure, ask why? are there alternatives may have it not sedated or awake? what are the risks? may i stay on my medications? when should i take my last sip of water. when can i have my last meal? all of those things, especially when we're talking about an 81-year-old woman, they can become little things that become cumulative and add up to one big problem. there's no doubt in my mind, ed, that we will be able to figure out what happened but certainly today it's causing a lot of conversations among doctors and patients. >> yeah, this is the biggest nightmare a doctor could ever have. >> yes, it is. >> now, yorkville, they say

quote, is going under a routine investigation. what -- and no wrong doing is suspected in her death but the outpatient clinics like this are going to be coming under a microscope. why wasn't this done in a hospital? >> a lot of people are asking because she's 81. there are physicians i've spoken to today that said because of her age alone, perhaps she should not have been treated in an outpatient clinic but this is the standard of care right now in the united states as you know. outpatient clinics free standing but doctors who run these should have privileges at local hospitals and these doctors do. we can talk about and argue about the practice of medicine and the big business of medicine, but this is a clinic that is run by gi doctors where they do clonoscopies on an

outpatient basis. the clinic has a good reputation. some argue if you have aan 81-year-old perhaps that is a risk factor that stands alone that perhaps warrants being in a hospital setting. there are questions about whether the dosage in an 81-year-old person, the dosage for sedation should be changed. we will find out the answers to all of these. but the stand alone clinic issue has become the norm in this country. yorkville is accredited and has a good representation but it is cost prohibitive to think that everyone will have a general anesthetic and be in an operating room. it not only ramps up health care costs and you don't want to be sedated for anything if you don't have to be. >> sure, great to have you with us tonight. >> any time, ed. >> you bet. >> coming up, there are major developments out of nebraska on the keystone xl pipeline.

jane cleb and landowner has something to say about what happened today. four years after the deep water horizon disaster, bp is slapped with a devastating court ruling. we'll bring you the latest next, breaking news, details on the small plane crash off the coast of jamaica. you're watching the ed show, we're right back. and for many, it's a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine, what if there was a new class of medicine that

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during the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas. this ensures we can produce clean electricity whenever our customers need it. ♪ welcome back, a story we've been following all day here on msnbc, a small plane crash has taken the lives of two americans, rochester real estate developer larry glazer and his wife were killed when their plane became unresponsive and crashed. it rest rochester at 8:45 this morning and supposed to land in naples florida around noon. two f-15s followed and escortsed the plane at 25,000 feet until

it reached cuba. nbc news reports the windows of the small plane were frosted over and the pilot was slumped over. the fighter jets broke away from cuban air space and rejoined the plane nir jamaica. according to jamaican authorities, it crashed 14 miles north of the island. we'll bring you the latest here if we get more details. breaking news out of iran, an american charter flight with as many as 100 americans on board was forced to land inside iran. the dubai based airline was asked to land by iranian air traffic control and did so voluntarily. this is a routine flight that carries u.s. contractors back and forth between dubai and afghanistan. u.s. officials say it landed because a bureaucratic issue. state department officials expect the issue to be resolved soon and the plane to take off in the next few hours. stick around, the rapid response

panel is next here on the ed show. hey, i'm jane wells when your cnbc market wrap. stocks gained gown despite a weaker than expected report. the s&p adds 10 close at the new record there. nasdaq climbed 20. economy onlied added 142,000 jobs in august, far fewer than expected but the employment rate ticked down to 6.1%. the other big story of the day, chinese e commerce giant has vowed to sell up to $24 billion in stock. that will be the largest ipo in u.s. history. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you.

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welcome back, thanks for

watching tonight. there is big hillary clinton news out there tonight. roiters is reporting clinton said the following, i'm going to make a decision, probably after the first of the year about whether i'm going to run again or not. the statement comes a day after clinton gave the key note address at the clean energy summit in las vegas. the former secretary of state addressed a number of issues the united states is facing when it comes to the environment. clinton did not mention the proposed pipeline although clinton did address fracking. >> to capitalize on this boom, we have to face head-on the legitimate pressing environmental concerns about some new extraction practices and their impacts on local waters, soil and air supplies. >> if she becomes a candidate, if hillary clinton supports the keystone xl pipe line, she'll lose a lot of support from

progressives. today the six-year fight against the pipeline is reaching another crossroads. it is at the heart of the case being argued in the nebraska state supreme court. earlier this year, i spoke to a group of landowners about their fight with the multinational oil company transcanada. >> they are the best used car salesman you'll ever find but they only have to sell you one car. when that car is sold, they are going to be out of the country. you know, there's no -- >> they are already out of the country. >> there's no warranty on this used car they are going to sell us. >> joining me tonight, jane cleb, executive director of bold nebraska randy thompson, whose case was argued in front of the nebraska state supreme court today. the issue is very clear here. it's about eminent domain and not about the oil or quality. it's about you, randy, owning

your lands and someone coming in and telling you what you have to do with it. and the question here now is what's your argument at this point? >> well, as you know, ed, since we've met you realize i'm not an attorney but i will do the best i can. we have several points actually but i think one of the strongest points was the fact that the legislature turn the over the determination and granting of eminent domain to the governor and this is something that our constitution we feel definitely prohibits. and so he was actually the one that once he approved the route, he granted the power of eminent domain to trans canada. even though trans canada is still in the permitting process as we all know. and we feel that that is totally outrageous that a foreign corporation who is still in the permitting process could

actually come in and condemn a property that belonged to nebraska farmers and ranchers. >> yeah. jane, wouldn't the nebraska supreme court have to change the constitution to allow this ruling to stand or to awe lo this process to proceed? it would seem to me what's in front of them right now is whether they want to change the constitution or not. how do you see it? >> that's absolutely right. if they want to twist themselves in a pretzel, which is what the governor's stance is, they are saying trans canada is not a common carrier, even though they say they are in other states. so therefore they don't have to go through the public service commission. and this is essentially hell on wheels all over. back in the day during railroads when the first time the public service commissions and railroad commissions were created, it was so politics and money did not influence where this infrastructure projects went.

governor hinman wants hell on wheels all over again, likes the money and power but we have a state constitution that has to be honored. >> randy, what are your neighbors saying? have attitudes changed about the keystone xl now that in fact it was about three months ago people were saying the white house was going to make a decision pretty soon. that never came. it's very clear it seems now the president is waiting for all of the legal wrangling to end before he's going to weigh in on this to allow it to unfold even though it's in its sixth year and there's been billions thrown at this. what about the attitudes of nebraskans, what do you sense out there? >> i think my stance, ed, is that the further we go down the road with this, more and more people are realizing you know, what this pipeline is really about. and so we have seen, people just

coming together in masses really. and i feel that we have seen a definite increase in the landowners and all nebraska citizens base he cically coming to our side on this. >> jane, wasn't today like d-day for those who oppose the pipeline? i mean, if you do not get a favorable ruling from the supreme court and they say it's okay what the governor did, the permitting process will move quickly after that, won't it? >> yeah, i mean this decision is going to be critical. maybe the decision might come in january or maybe later but it is. this was a critical day. for us it was a historic day, it was citizens bringing the case to the governor who clearly had an abuse of pow ir. if we lose, that will not be a good situation for us. if we win, it gives the president a lot of space to essentially stand with folks like randy and other citizens across the country who are saying, we don't want to risk our land and water for foreign

export pipeline. >> jane, does hillary clinton's silence on keystone xl make you nervous? >> look, she is tough as nails on so many issues and clearly spoke about climate change and climate science. but you cannot talk about climate change and then turn around and be silent on keystone xl. anybody that knows anything about science and climate change knows that expanding tar sands will increase carbon pollution and going to be on that side of things when it comes to energy, you were get on the side of the folks. she can come on stage and join us to oppose this pipe line. >> you want her to give an up or down on this. i mean, she goes and speaks at this green summit in las vegas, but yet she does not weigh in on what has been really the focal

point of the environmental crowd so far this year. i mean, if this ruling by the nebraska supreme court works in your favor, is this project dead and does it take it out of the 2016 election? >> i think it's going to be very difficult for the president to allow this process to go on. essentially when you look at all of the time lines you're looking about a year and a half to two years. i think the president will see the writing on wall, quite frankly trans canada could see the writing on the wall and focus on the energy east pipeline, maybe they go to focusing on gas pipelines, but secretary clinton can't sit on the sidelines, it's not just keystone xl but about tar sands, we're concerned about that extreme form of energy. it's not good for property rights in the heartland. she has to ask herself, is she going to stand with farmers and

ranchers and those that care about climate change or turn her back on these critical issues, i hope she continues to be tough as nails and stands with us. >> jane cleeb and randy thompson, nice to have you with us. >> it's back to school time and an ed show favorite is already getting a failing grade. we're right back. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? every time you tie on an apron, you make progress. and we like that. because progress is what we make, too.

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in and speak only spanish, throw them in a classroom with english-speaking students. >> lou we gohmert has education envy, he's talking like he never got one. >> all a scam, why does the administration refuse in the face of evidence that it's hurting kids to enforce basic immigration law? >> he's thinking only about the foreign students, not even fair to them. but it is a disaster for students, young kids trying to learn the most they can and the teacher has to bring the education down to the lowest level. >> sorry, louie, your argument doesn't make the grade. here's a few lessons. kids aren't thrown into classrooms. they are in language assistance programs, school officials around the country have been more than willing to help, citing legal and moral obligations. san francisco has welcomed the privilege to educate all

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massive disruption has cost their lives. there is no one who wants this thing over more than i do. i want my life back. there is no one who wants this done more than i do. we are doing everything we can

to contain the oil offshore, defend the shoreline and return people's lives to normal as fast as we can. >> welcome back to "the ed show." finally tonight 11 people lost their lives and countless more along the coast lost their lively as a result of the deepwater horizon auto spill in 2010. crude spread across hundreds of miles of beaches on the shores of five different states. now more than four years later, a federal judge has ruled bp acted recklessly, leading up to the spill and those dangerous decisions were motivated by profit. in 153-page ruling released on thursday, the judge concluded the discharge of oil was the result of gross negligence or willful misconduct by bp p. the ruling opens up bp to a fine of $18 billion.

it wasn't the only couple ruled responsible. transocean owner of the rig was assigned 30% of the blame. haliburton the cement contractor is on the hook for 3%. the next stage of the case is set to begin in january when a judge will decide how much bp must pay. will it be $18 billion? joining us tonight, brent coop, attorney with brent coop and associates. good to have you with us tonight. you have represented a lot of folks down there who have seen a lot of suffering and financial despair in recent years. tell us some of the decisions made by bp that resulted in the ruling as you see it. >> good points. good to see you.

the judge made 118 specific findings in this broad based opinion from are a case. bp was desperate to get the p well drilled. they were well past a p production deadlines. they had adverse weather conditions before they were losing 500,000 a day. in the rush to get the well completed and to get the drilling well moved to another place they pulled the plug too soon. there are a number of reasons it wasn't properly ready to be closed out the well didn't find out. the after math we read about in the last four years occurred.

your analysis of the $18 billion? >> the penalty is based on how many barrels of oil is spilled. it's mathematical. he multiplies it by a number between one and four. what we did know is there were four to five million barrels of oil spilled. you multiply it times about 1 $1,000 a barrel. you are looking at $4 billion, $5 billion minimum. the statute allow it is court to up to a number of four. you are looking at the $18 billion range.

they lied to congress and said it was only a thousand barrels a day when they knew it was up to 150,000 barrels a day. >> beware of the oil companies when things like this happen. it's one of the big lessons in this. how long will it take before we actually see financial restitution to the folks that went through the financial hardship. >> the sad thing is we recommend people on the rig that day that haven't been compensated. we represented people that lost their livelihoods. they were put out of work. many clients lost their business because they didn't have the ability to with stand the year or two it took for the economy to rebound. they haven't been paid yet. bp did a good job of whitewashing what's going on. the vast majority of claimants

have never been paid. the stories that bp paid for, the paid advertising presents false facts. these people waited four years. based on the way bp appealed every decision in the case we are looking at several more years at a minimum before we see things going better for them, if ever. the problem with the penalty now is that all the money goes to the united states government. granted, they are entitled to bring claims but it slows down the process of what i believe is the bigger insult in what happened here which is the devastating impact on lives and livelihoods. >> we'll stay on oh the story. this is a big ruling for those who were involved in this. they have been waiting a long time for it. no question about it. the wheels of justice take a long time. $18 billion will help if that's what it comes down to. great to have you with us. appreciate it.

that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. thanks to you for tuning in. breaking news tonight on a mysterious plane crash are. this small private plane plunged into the ocean about 14 miles off the coast of jamaica this afternoon. the plane was flying unresponsive for hours, causing two f-15s to tail it. the jamaica defense force found the wreckage field and dive teams are refuelling now, heading back to continue the search. no victims have been found yet. it took off from rochester, new york, bound for florida. the question is what happened. the two people on board, jerry glazer