an entire ribbon of gliding gels surround five comfort coated blades, for less irritation, venus embrace sensitive, a perfect match for sensitive skin. inside the bob mcdonnell jury deliberation room. thanks for getting up with us on this, the first saturday, in the month of september. a lot we want to talk about this morning. a great panel it talk about it, this week has produced a couple of genuine political bombshells, one of them we get to later. we start with the successful federal prosecution of former virginia governor, bob mcdonnell. charged with 11 counts of corruption and convicted on each and every one of them by a jury of his peers on thursday. mcdonnell's wife, maureen, was convicted on eight corruption

counts. another one for obstruction of justice. bob mcdonnell becomes the first governor or former governor in the history of virginia to be convicted of a crime and his wife becomes the first former first lady to suffer the same fate. late they are morning we talk about whether the verdict could inspire similar prosecutions elsewhere. and the name chris christie comes to mind wooe. we'll get into it later with a former prosecutor. for now we dig deep near why and how the jury reached the verdict that it reached. last night one of the mcdonnell jurors, kathleen carmody. told rach rachel maddow what they thought of the defense, that they couldn't conspire because the marriage was in bad shape. >> i did not doubt there was strain in the marriage and stress. and that mrs. mcdonnell was having a difficult time adjusting as first lady of virginia. however, they remained under the same roof during all this time up until the time of the trial. were under the same roof.

they vacationed together. we saw evidence of text messages, phone messages, it just -- i don't doubt that there was some strain. but it did not to me come across as being as broken as it was portrayed. >> and the importance of them communicating throughout this time, and having contact, living under the same roof and everything, is that it meant legally that they could have could have conspired or communicated about these criminal acts? >> there certainly could have been opportunity. >> the mcdonnell juror also said it wouldn't have made a difference to her if maureen mcdonnell had taken the stand to testify in her own defense. >> i don't think it would have swayed me one way or the other. maybe it would have been certainly of interest to hear her perspective. but it certainly for me would not have swayed me one way or the other. there was sufficient testimony and evidence provided already. >> all right. here to discuss this and all the other big stories today, we have

norm mornstein from the american enterprise institute and msnbc analyst karen finney. the mcdonnell verdict, let's start with that. i was surprised by this. i thought the prosecution established, i thought the news media established pretty well the mcdonnells were kind of greedy here. it took a lot of things. 200 make that connection, especially when you look at what the ethics laws are in virginia, they don't have many ethics laws in virginia to make the connection and say that he took this, the watch or the car or the cash or whatever and turned around and did x for johnny loomis, this businessman, i wasn't sure they could make the case. i was surprised by the verdict. >> it seemed like they were trying to be a little too cute by half, right. you have this rolodex, you have this fancy car. you happen to have a check to help out with your daughter's wedding and you happen to have a reception in your house, which happens to be the governor's mansion in support of a diet product that the main ingredient is tobacco.

i mean -- >> penicillin? there's something about that that just doesn't -- i think to be honest -- that to me smells just of something going on there. >> and clearly they made the argument. >> i saw those, in virginia, it is legal to, for a governor for an elected official, basically to take anything. that's the weird thing here. so you could take the rolex. it certainly smells bad, looks bad. in virginia, it is legal to basically string along somebody like johnny williams. and maybe hint that we're going to make this the official state nutritional supplement or whatever. that's why i was a little bit struck. >> i think we've gotten cynical about politics. when we see these kind of things, we kind of thing that they, that they don't quite pass the smell test. but it doesn't really seem like they, that they quite cross that line. and the prosecution actually said, no, we, there really was a

quid pro quo going on here. think that should be the concern for other politicians, that if, if that precedent has been set, that there might be some other cute kind of relationships that other prosecutors in other states might start looking at. >> it was a faulty defense in a lot of ways. and you know, remember that at an early stage, mcdonnell was offered conviction on one felony count and his wife exonerated. and turned it down. and i'm sure his defense lawyers told him, we got this nailed. but what they did was to focus almost entirely on the dysfunction in the family, they hung the wife out to dry and i think the jury found that really distasteful. >> that seems a risky move. >> and when you're suggesting that the husband, the noble husband who is doing his gubernatorial duties was clueless about all of these things -- but you know, they're in deep financial trouble and she gives him a rolex watch and he doesn't say -- how the hell

can we afford a rolex watch? or he dets into tgets into the has pictures smiling driving it around, that's really hard. >> there's an email with him and johnny williams saying basically hey, we need a loan for 10 grand or 20 grand, done. they clearly expect something, you know. >> it was like the new twinkie defense, right? there's no way we could conspire because we hate each other. we're living in the same house, but we hate each other. we don't talk to each other. i'm sure as the juror pointed out, there was some strain in the marriage, that's probably realistic. but like you say, the fact that that was the core basis for their case, that they couldn't conspire because they're not getting along? i mean that's a little -- >> but this is interesting, too, because you know, we now are into about two or three decades of marriages that are also political partnerships. and bill and hillary clinton is

maybe the most obvious example. when you have that kind of a situation, you could have, there might be a lot of strain in the marriage. there was a lot of strain in the clinton marriage obviously when they were in the white house. but that doesn't mean that there can't be still a political relationship that they may be able to engage in and work in things. >> not any more, though. that's the other part of this, it's so shocking, you can just think back two years ago, three years ago, it was bob mcdonnell, the short list of the vice presidential prospect. this is going to be a swing state, a potential presidential candidate some day. >> the romney vetting team they need some retroactive bonuses. >> even if they didn't mean it, they could claim credit for it. >> i'm wondering about the c conjugal visits in prison. we move to texas and the race for governor. it will be a big story this weekend. in an excerpt of her memoir out

on wednesday, texas democrat wendy davis reveals she terminated a pregnant 18 years ago for medical reasons, it came two years after another necessarily medical abortion that she previously disclosed. she shot to fame after her 13-hour filibuster in an effort to defeat abortion restriction legislation she writes she was already in her second trimester, she and her then-husband, named their expected daughter when they learned the fetus had a serious brain abnormality. doctors said her daughter could be in a permanent vegetative state. davis writes quote, an indescribable blackness followed. it was a deep, dark despair and grief. a heavy wave that crushed me. it made me wonder if i would ever surface. when i finally did come through it, eye emerged a different person, changed, forever changed. >> this will cause a big stir. obviously a very personal revelation on her part. wendy davis, the politics of abortion sort of central to the

rise of wendy davis in texas. >> that's true. although i think the way she talked about this, and you know, i serve on the board of naral, pro choice america. for women who have to undergo this kind of procedure where as she described it, they had named the child, right and she thanks the child in the, you could say fetus or child. but point being -- this was clearly a very hard decision. she goes to great lengths to describe how torturous a decision that is and i think there's two things. number one, i think that's probably helpful for women who find themselves in the same situation and the women's vote in texas is very important. but also from a political standpoint, i think it's wise, because she's now defined the nature of the story. and i think it makes it that much harder for greg abbott or anyone else to try to cast her as some sort of evil person for having done this. >> in a state like texas. conservative state, republican state, and there certainly are

plenty of pro choice people, and plenty of pro life people as well. to tell a story like this, that is as karen said, sort of a wrenching personal story. this is not a casual abortion or anything like that. this is somebody who is agonizing over it and yet felt the necessity to go through with it i wonder if in a state like texas, there are people who consider themselves more on the pro life side and look at that and maybe think about it a little differently. >> she may get a certain amount of sympathy in terms of the dynamics of that decision. but politically i'm not sure if it changes things one way or the other. because first of all, i don't think it's not something that greg abbott is going to make a political, a political attack or even you know, even talk about. he'll say it's a personal thing and kind of move on. i think people who are supporting wendy davis because she's pro choice, they're going to stay with her. i don't think, people who are pro life, they'll sympathize with her. but i don't think, it's not going to gain her extra votes.

>> the difference is women. moderate women voters, for a lot of women. how she describes what happened, that's how women think about it. it's not so cut-and-dry as i'm for it or against it. it's more a sense of, i don't know if i should be the person or the government should be the person to tell wendy davis what to do in that situation. it's so complicated for women. i do think given a lot of the previous things that greg abbott has said and sort of his position, i think from a political standpoint, it is something i think will resonate with moderate women, and again, there's been so much anger among women and i think we'll see if it's a motivating factor. if all of the hobby lobbies and all the things that have happened in terms of taking away women's rights, this is the kind of thing that i think actually could make some women voters think differently about it. >> this is texas this is a state that democrats keep saying we're going to win in 2024, 2028. how do you look at texas right now? >> it's still a very uphill

battle for democrats. some of the polls show that wendy davis was not doing as well as she should be doing with women and with younger voters. and i think this may be an attempt at least to bring some of them back into the fold. that's not going to be enough for her, it's going to take something more. and it appears at least in this texas, that greg abbott, a pretty extreme guy, we have all of these stories going back to rick perry's wrongful death, people executed where we now know they were innocent. and not a second's thought by the governor, we look at the processes that they use to examine cases of people on death row. and it was mostly come on, let's just push this through and make it happen. something that in another state would be shocking. >> when rick perry was running for president in 2012, and when they asked him about do you have

any doubt, no, and the audience erupted in cheers at the republican debate. that goes beyond the borders. there are reports this morning the comedienne joan rivers, the person who pioneered red carpet coverage of award shows will have an actual red carpet at her funeral in new york city, it will be held tomorrow. not saying they are credible reports, but it does seem fitting for the comedian who coined the phrase "who are you wearing?" we'll talk to michael musto about the person he knew. a body at rest tends to stay at rest. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex

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so we mentioned at the top of the show there are a couple of political bombshells this week. this is the other, a true political bombshell, the biggest development all year in the battle for control of the u.s. senate, it hit the state of kansas this past wednesday afternoon when the democratic

nominee for senate there, chad taylor, submitted a letter to the secretary of state, withdrawing from the race. and that left independent candidate, greg ormen as the only opponent against republican pat roberts, roberts, his job approval numbers might lose in november, even though kansas is a deeply red state. kansas's republican secretary of state has ruled that taylor's name must remain on the ballot. a decision that may lead to litigation, but that seems consistent with kansas law. so that will the votes that the democrat still receives with his name still on the ballot, will those votes be enough to affect the race between roberts and orman, that's a key question. a poll last month showed in a two-way race, or mon would lead roberts, 43-33%. ahead of the republican incumbent in kansas. we're still waiting to see new polling on the race after what's happened this week. this is pretty much an

unprecedented situation. the bottom line, the race in kansas, a state that hasn't elected a nonrepublican to the senate in 82 years, is now a real race. a key race for the battle to control of the united states senate. democrats obviously are betting if orman wins and they need his vote to keep control of the senate that he will be with them. but will he? after all, not a lot is known about greg orman. and suddenly everyone is asking this and other questions about him. he hasn't said this much, either. fortunately, we had him on our show two sundays ago. our interview is so far the only national television interview with greg orman, the man who could end up singlehandedly deciding which party controls the u.s. senate. the first question i asked him when he was on the show was about that scenario. if he gets elect and if it's a deadlock in the senate, which party does he side with? >> ultimately if i get elected, there's a reasonable chance that neither party will have a majority in washington. and if that's the case, what i've said is i'm going to caucus

with whichever party is willing to actually go to washington and start trying to solve problems, as opposed to just pleasing the extremists in their own base. >> looking at those two parties right now, do you have a sense which one has done a better job of that? >> you know, frankly, i think both parties have been sending, sending extremists to washington. people are more interested in pleasing the partisans in their own base, and really not solving problems. >> i asked him about the affordable care act. would he as a senator vote to repeal it. >> as long as the president's in the white house, i think it's impractical to say that the law is going to go off the books. i think what we ultimately need to do is look at the things that are driving health care costs in this country and try to, try to solve the problem in a real rational, common-sense way, as opposed to positioning for political gain here. >> and then there's the issue of medicate expansion under the affordable care act. the republican governor of kansas, sam brownbeck has

resisted that. is greg orman for expanding medicaid or against it? >> i think the message that governor brownback has sent to the working poor in kansas, if you have a health care crisis, your best solution is to quit your job. and i think that's a bad message to send. i think we have, we have a real issue in kansas with our critical access facilities. that are now underfunded as a result of governor brownback's decision. and so ultimately i think he's, he's made a poor decision. >> and what about immigration reform? will he support the plan that is now sitting in the house, a path to citizenship for the undocumented with fines and penalties? >> i think if you're here on an undocumented basis, you should have to register with i.c.e. you should have to pay a fine or perform some community service, as an acknowledgement that the law has been broken. i think if you uphold the laws, hold down a job and pay taxes, you should be able to stay here. >> i asked him about the governor's race in kansas. sam brownback's bid to win

re-election. who is he supporting in that race? >> you know i'm not making that decision public. i think your voting behavior is ultimately a private behavior. i'm looking for people who want to go to washington and in this case, go to topeka and solve problems, work in a bipartisan way. understand that kansas has a long tradition of bipartisanship and that's what i'm looking for in elected officials. >> all right. as i said, ours is the only national television interview with greg orman so far, the independent taking on pat roberts in the kansas senate race, there's a lot we don't know about him, including whether he can win this race. back to discuss greg orman, the the kansas senate bombshel race, we have msnbc political analyst karen finney. when i asked him who are you voting for for governor, he said i don't believe in making a voting public. in the u.s. senate your job is to vote. i hope he believes -- >> he's an independent, but he's

already gotten you know, figured out how to duck the questions. >> he's a politician. >> absolutely. >> he's very, very good. i mean my -- if the republicans like clearly take the senate, my sense is he would, he would -- >> he said on his website, he says one party has a clear majority. the question here is if it's 50-50, what does he do? >> if it's 50-50, my hunch would be listening to him, he sounded like he would tend to caucus with the caucus with the democrats. because if it's, if it's a 50-50 senate, joe biden is, is the ranking vote, so -- >> what i mean, what i mean by 50-50, if his vote is the deciding vote. that's the question, that's what he won't answer. >> don't we think it's whoever, between assuming mitch mcconnell is re-elected and harry reid makes the better deal? committee memberships and -- they both have favors to give out. >> what we know, to fill in the

background for some people, he went to princeton, he was with the college republicans in princeton. fast forward to 2007, he started to run for the senate against pat roberts the last time around as a democrat. he gave money to al franken and barack obama that year. in 2012 he endorsed mitt romney. make sense of that. >> it's interesting in terms of the dynamics of the republican party in kansas, which is, there's a real split right. there's a faction of republicans who are very dissatisfied with how conservative, how outrageously conservative brownback has gone. so in terms -- it makes sense to me that he's really trying to you know, split it down the middle. because even the republican, he's got to try to get democrats, independents and some moderates and he's got to try to pick off sort of those, republicans -- >> he can't pick them off by saying, i'm going to go to washington and vote for harry reid. the goal is not to say that. >> that's right. >> the language, though, he used, specifically in terms of health care, sounds definitely more along the, the democratic

view of looking at, at looking at health care in terms of medicaid and, if you're sam brownback dprks you're poor, you would be better off not having the job to get health care. to the extent that health care and those kind of issues still remain big issues, it seems he's more on the democratic side. >> that was one of the big fights, frankly, that the republicans in the legislature have had with brownback. they think that's in and out rageous this he don't agree with his decision. so again i think the dynamics of the state right now in terms of what's happening with the party in terms of what voters you need to turn out and where you need to turn them out, i think that's factoring into his calculations. >> i guess the big question ultimately is if taylor stays on the ballot, if he officially can completely endorses, endorses orman and what does pat roberts do? a lot of this has to do with his own popularity. >> and clearly the republicans will then spend the rest of this campaign trying to make orman

defacto a democrat. if it's an independent, that could be a little different. anyway when we talk about looking at not just kansas, but all the close races, 59 days from now, there was one person i want to talk to about that. i think he is the best throughout at figuring this stuff out. so he ask our number one guy. he'll be coming up next to break down what's going to happen, who is going to control the senate and how to make sense of kansas. stay with us. i'm randy and i quit smoking with chantix. for 33 years i chose to keep smoking... ...because it was easier to smoke than it was to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced the urge for me to smoke. it actually caught me by surprise. some people had changes in behavior,

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meanwhile, "the new york times" own election forecasting system said that roberts' chances of winning re-election had fallen only four percentage points from 66% to 62%. put this in perspective, republicans now have 45 senate seats, they need a net gauge of six to get the 51 seats they need to retake the chamber. if they only get to 50, it won't be enough. vice president joe biden would break the tie in favor of the democrats. already republicans have a near lock on three of the democratic-held seats they need in montana, south dakota and west virginia. red states where democratic incumbents are retiring and where polls show the republicans far ahead so if you pencil those three states in, then it leaves republicans needing a net pick-up of only three more to hit their magic number. whether they will hit the magic number is going to be decided in 11 battleground states. you see them there. most of these are currently held by democrats, but a few of them are held by endangered republicans, it is these 11

states, this these 11 states, that the fate of the democratic senate rests, the fate will be decided 59 days from now on election day. will democrats hang on and keep the senate for the rest of the obama presidency? to help us make sense of this i'm joined by nate cohen who covers elections for "the new york times," the first of what we hope will be a regular visit this fall to go through the numbers and tell us where everything stands. i want to go through the math. start on kansas because that's the big cliche game-changer news this week. we're showing you guys moving slightly in the democratic direction. still likely republican, slightly a democratic election. tell us how you think of kansas right now? >> one quick point of clarification, those numbers you cited for us, were for the united states as a whole. we saw the republican chances of retaking the senate declined from 66, to 62, in kansas we thought the democratic chances, we saw a shift in kansas's

result of orman in the race. i think pat roberts is a weak incumbent who is stuck in the 30s, the ppp poll showed orman with a ten-point lead. a survey usa poll showed the combination of chad taylor and greg orman had 52% of the vote. so the pathway to victory is there. whether orman can hold on to that is an interesting question. i think the biggest thing that he's helped here with is that he doesn't have a record. you know he doesn't have any votes, he's an independent. he has the freedom to define himself however he wants to. he can avoid questions however he wants to. he can just spend the whole campaign saying he's a centrist, a pragmatist. he wants to solve problems. i think it will make things fairly challenging for pat roberts to attack him. i'm not concerned about the possibility that chad taylor will draw that many votes away from him, even if mr. taylor remains on the ballot. voters are fairly smart. we have a long record of instances when the voters are able to correctly identify when a partisan candidate is in the

race. it hasn't a low-information voters turning out for the presidency, but having given thoughts to the senate. >> we say this battleground of 11 states, let's look at the democratic-held seats, the seats that the democrats need to protect, eight of them on the map. i want to go through these with you. the democrats have to protect as many of these as possible if they're going to keep the senate. you say the most vulnerable of ones we're looking at the screen is for democrats, louisiana, mary landrieu, there's news we have to share, a judge yesterday throwing out a residency challenge. refations about mary landrieu listing a d.c. address on some regulatory forms. living with her parents when she's in new orleans. so the judge basically saying he threw it out, though he basically said this could be revisited after the election potentially. that's where that stands right now, you list this as the most vulnerable democrat on the map. >> i think that's right. i think that louisiana is a state where there's no good news for mary landrieu. she's behind in all the votes, there's no way to squint at them

to come up with a more optimistic read of the polls. which is the state in arkansas, it's a state where mary landrieu only won by six percentage points, despite a very high african-american turn-out. they're not going to represent that again. declining black turnout can cover the distance between victory and defeat. surely there are some number of vote who are will be more likely to support the republicans this time around. and she's also battling a long-term secular trend in the state, where the state's white vote verse steadily moved against the democrats. that's in part because the democrats have moved to the left and state has a very conservative set of white voters, and it's also because the old generation of southern new-deal democrats has literally left the electorate and they're no longer participating in these elections. as a result, the democratic share of registered voters among whites has declined substantially. the republicans have an advantage for the first time in the state's history. i think it will be very

difficult to see how mary landrieu holds on to the support she had in 2008 which only barely got her over the top. >> and north carolina, you have this one very competitive race. and there was news again at north carolina, the first debate between kay hagen. and thom tillis, her challenger, here's a clip of that debate. >> that's reality, that's math and that's something that kay needs to accept. >> i want to go back to speaker tillis' comment this has to do with math. i'm insulted by his comments, i was a vice president at a bank. i wrote billion-dollar state budgets in the state of north carolina. i understand math. even when i was a teenager, i worked at my dad's tire store and did lay-away for people buying tires. i understand math. >> a little interesting there, kay hagan saying thom tillis is condescending to me and that was a theme of the tillis' style there, you had a little taste of it how do you look at the race in north carolina right now? >> i think there's a fair case

to be made that north carolina is the closest state in the country. the poll shows a tight race there are complicated a little bit by the presence of a libertarian candidate. shawn haw, who has basically no money, but is named on all the polls and i think there's evidence to suggest that the libertarian candidate is drawing a disproportionate share of the republican vote. i don't anticipate that the vote remembers going to vote for mr. haw on election day. you could make an argument that the polls are tilted in the direction of kay hagan, compared to what we would expect from her. it's a true dead heat. it's a close state in the presidential elections and the challenge for kay hagan is north carolina something gb to be a state where democrats are more dependant on young, nonwhite voters, north carolina is a red-to-blue state where the young college students and rising black turnout allowed obama it make big gains, that's not going to be there. she's going to have to win with an older electorate. the real question is does kay hagan have the ability to broaden her appeal beyond the epeel she showed in 2008 or

beyond the appeal that president obama even had in 2008 when he managed to win the state. it sounds like her best ally in that effort will, will be her opponent, mr. tillis. it seems that she's going to be able to tie him a bit to a very unpopular state legislature there. and that will make the race closer than it would be if she were facing a somewhat more generic republican candidate. >> i want to get to one more race on the republican side, the three vulnerable republican seats we talked about, kansas, and there's also georgia on the map and kentucky. if you quickly explain this one. think it will surprise people, your model, you're saying kentucky has almost a 90% chance of going for mitch mcconnell. people look at mitch mcconnell. they look at the polling and say, they would think it's more competitive. can you quickly explain that? >> the polls in kentucky are extremely clear. mitch mcconnell has a lead of four or five points, there's basically no dissension on that point. kentucky is a very red state. it's a state that voted overwhelmingly for mitt romney. it's a state where the republicans have made very important gains in the eastern part of the state in coal

country. where democrats historically ran big margins. and it's a state where democrats haven't won a federal contest since 1996. all the fundamentals point to a mitch mcconnell victory. there aren't very many examples at all of incumbent senators losing when the opposite party holds the presidency. in a state that is that favorable to their party. in fact there are no examples of it. so i think that when you look from an historical perspective, you would surely expect mitch mcconnell to win there he's unpopular and the state has enough registered democratic voters to keep it close. but it's really hard to see how grimes gets 50%. given how republican the state is and in particular the damage that has been suffered to democrats in the eastern part of the state that traditionally democrats need to win. it would be like taking northern virginia out of virginia and telling democrats to try to win there. or taking philadelphia out of pennsylvania and telling them try to win there. it's a big blow to them that i don't know how she makes up. >> nate cohen from the upshot, "new york times," we're hoping to visit with you a lot between now and november and go through all the races and more

bombshells next week, maybe. thanks for being on. up next, the transformation of al franken from very funny guy to very serious senator. looking to win a second term. there were some glimpses of franken's old humorous persona this week. we'll talk about it, when we come back. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. fancy feast broths. they're irresistabowl... completely unbelievabowl... totally delectabowl. real silky smooth or creamy broths. everything she's been waiting for. carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any by-products or fillers. wow! being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. fancy feast broths. wow served daily.

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across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. dick durkin is the senate's only olympic gold-medal winning fencer, he once released a album of jazz standards under the name richie springfield and he can fit 11 marshmallows in his mouth. none of it is actually true, all pulled directly from a fundraising email that al franken sent to his supporters this week. the funny side of al franken. the funny side we almost never see in public any more. when whee do get to see it. it's in a mass email like that al franken is in the midst of the second biggest battle of his political life. his quest to keep his senate seat he won six years ago by just 312 votes. this time it's looking a little

bit better for him. real clear politics shows him with a 10-point lead over his republican challenger, mike mcfadden. has this advantage for franken come at a price? in 2008, some comic essays that franken had penned years before surfaced, and created a huge stir in that race. his campaign was caught flat-footed by the attacks on his comedic past. after that, it appears al franken decided he could never, ever tell a joke again in public. at least as long as he wanted to be in politics. earlier this week, franken told the l.a. times i'm in a different job, my old job was being funny basically, this is not my new job. franken has repeatedly said he wants to be a work horse, not a show horse. in the senate he secured funding for mental health screenings in school, passed foo and drug safety bills and tougher regulation for the credit rating agencies, they type of victories don't come every day, when you're part of the least productive congress in modern history. it seems like a steep price for a true comedic tall nlt for al franken to pay to give up a huge

chunk of his public identity to be one of 100 senator who is don't get a chance to enact that many laws any more. so it's a trade-off that's satisfying for someone as talented as al franken. should we give our public servants more leeway to be who they really are? with me is a long-time friend of al franken's, norm morenstein. we have an interview with george w. bush your show broadcast from the convention floor, let's take a look at that. >> people in houston say that your father goes to the wrong barbeque restaurant. now -- >> that's mud-slinging. that's mud-slinging. >> it's not mud-slinging. >> this campaign has dropped to an all-time low. >> he doesn't know where to eat barbeque, where how is he goingn the country. >> he's shown tremendous courage going to otto's.

>> al, we had a real breakthrough here with george. people have been wondering what's the vision thing was, it's ripped, al. >> you're asking the tough question. >> it's ribs, al, it's ribs. >> and there's, did you know that, did you think george w. bush as a future president when you did the interview in 1980? >> not in the slightest. what i can tell you if you had asked george w. bush at that point, do you think he'll be a president in the future, he would have laughed even louder. >> there was a lot of cackling. let me ask you about al franken. you know him probably as well as anybody. the l.a. times story. talking about the transformation, he had a quote that jumped out at me. he said i don't think there's any contradiction between being funny and being serious. hasn't he sort of shown that he thinks there is a contradiction between those two things, because he won't tell jokes any more? >> i think the more telling quote, steve, is i had a job

before, i have have a new job now. my old job was i'm a satirist. and that's what i'm supposed to do the new job is i'm representing the people of minnesota and i can be funny at that, but that's not the key element. a lot of this has been consciously moving away and letting people see him in that new role. when you watch him around the senate and you watch him with his colleagues and when i see him in private, he's very funny. he is funny in the way he used to be funny. >> was he caught, were they surprised in 2008, we mentioned in the intro, when these old essays come out in some of the old jokes come out it became, i remember being, it lasted for few weeks, this controversy, he has to apologize, was he surprised by the intensity of that? >> i think surprised by the intensity. but he knew that all the stuff that he done, some of which was cutting-edge, was going to come back to haunt him. and some of it was going to come back during the bat toll win a nomination. some of it, when he was in a

general election campaign. the goal i think was not, to deal with a series of statements that in context were designed for political satire, it was to convince people he wasn't a frivolous person. and the fact is, al is -- a policy wonk. and a lot of ways, al is like you and me, he follows these things and looks at the nuances. the most significant part is he came in and within weeks he had figured out how to be a senator and he got legislative accomplishments, he got major things done. you know, the single most significant thing that's in the affordable care act may well be the money going back to people because insurance companies have to put 80 cents of every dollar into patients. that's al's plan. he managed to get -- >> i believe it. to be, as smart and as sharp as this stuff was on "saturday night live," you have to have some serious intellect to be

able to do that. i wonder do you, do you look at him and is it -- because he has the instinct, the humorous instinct. in the senate, politics lends itself to satire in so many ways, do you think at times the joke is just there and he bites the tongue and doesn't tell it. >> no question, there are times when you have to say is it better to do the joke or better not to do the joke? but he does jokes. only he does them more now one-on-one with his other senators. than he does to play to the cameras. and we may see a change in the second term a little bit. but i think what you're going to see in the second term is an al franken who may be more openly funny. but will be just as serious when it comes to the policy front. >> there's a new term for politics -- openly funny. openly funny politician, we'll see if he wins by more than 312 votes. maybe it liberates him more. next, one of joan rivers' friends will join us to share his memories of the comic legend. [ male announcer ] if you're taking multiple medications,

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one of the things we've learned since the death of joan rivers is how many people claimed her as a friend. the many lives and people she really did seem to touch. one of those people is iconic new york columnist, michael musto, who writes an out magazine article about how he once tried to slip joan rivers a couple of bucks about the car service they were using. she handed it right back and said get your mother flowers with it. we're joined now by michael musto. thank you for taking a few minutes with us this morning. ways asking you in the break there, you had her recently, she was always out on the town. when you saw she was 81, i look at the number and i -- she didn't feel that way, she kept making herself very relevant to whatever moment it was right up until the end. >> she was extremely vital really part of the fabric of new york and the culture.

i don't befriend celebrities a as journalist. i don't call meryl streep and say, let's go bowling. but joan rivers is someone you wanted to be friends with. we were cut from the same cloth. she hated downtime. joan rivers was a nice person, the reason she could get away with the jaundiced bitchy humor is she was a professional, everybody was rooting for her, she never missed a mark or canceled an engagement or stood you up. she was on cnn and walked off the set at one point because the reporter kept asking her, you've offended this person, you've offended that person. but her whole thing was there's no such thing with being offended in comedy. >> she believed in using dark humor as a way to get through bad things. the reason she walked off the show i'm sure was to help her book. the reason she gave back money for the transportation that night is because she knew i would be telling the story

forever and the cash in the envelope was not worth the pr gene just she could get out of it for decades. >> to johnny carson on the "tonight show" was where she built her fame. she had the unfortunate falling out with carson. it always shocks me, though, she got her own late night show, that didn't work. and because she seemed like such a natural for it. >> well, she was sort of an acquired taste she became popular as a guest host on johnny carson whenever he wasn't available. when she became her own host, he went against her and people found maybe she was better as a guest star. with the proliferation of cable, that she became bigger than ever. she was much more than an acquired taste. she dominated the world of comedy. every female with a microphone and a mouth owes everything to her. when she started she was one of three comediennes out there, phyllis diller and totie fields being the other. >> one thing about her you knew her personally and one thing about her that people don't know and would you want them to know, what would it be?

>> if f she looked at a calendar and saw a blank page, she went crazy. she had to be busy at all times. when she hosted my party that night, she said yes to everything. she loved the fact that she was hot again. she had been through so much in the male-dominated comedy world. her husband killed himself. she was left with debts. she told me my husband committed suicide, i was bankrupt, audiences heckled me. what more can happen to me. i love what's happening to me. >> my thanks to michael musto joining us this morning. still ahead with, bob mcdonnell verdict make federal prosecutors more likely to pursue cases against other public officials? what public officials might i be talking about? we'll talk about it straight ahead, so stay with us. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels,

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the new york democratic primary is only three days away. and the candidate who is challenging governor andrew cuomo in what was supposed to be a sure thing. hasn't necessarily felt like one.

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the fallout from the bob mcdonnell verdict, who might be prosecuted? next. thanks for staying with us, three of the jurors who rendered a guilty verdict against virginia governor bob mcdonnell this week said they based their decision on not ott any one piece of evidence or testimony, but on the accumulated weight of evidence presented by prosecutors. one juror telling the "washington post" quote, the evidence was overwhelming and staring us in our face. they found governor mcdonnell guilty of 11 counts of corruption, his wife, maureen, eight counts of corruption and one count of obstruction of justice. she was found guilty, too. based on that verdict, it would be easy to assume that the case against the former virginia governor was a slam-dunk all along. but it seems the opposite was true. prosecutors appeared so unsure of their ability to convict

mcdonnell and his wife, that they offered him a deal to face only one count of felony fraud that had nothing to do with corruption in office. and they said they would drop all charges against maureen mcdonnell if he went along with that. mcdonnells in the plural were so confident they could beat all 14 charges they were facing, that they rejected that plea deal. governor mcdonnell appeared stunned as the jury's verdict was read, holding his head in his hands. one year ago this coming week on september 9th, 2013, that chaos erupted near the george washington bridge. two of three access lanes were closed off, bringing the city of fort lee to a standstill. it was reported that aides to governor chris christie were deeply involved. time for traffic problems in fort lee in an email. within days, christie's office announced it hired a former federal prosecutor to respond to help it respond to ongoing investigations, including an investigation being conducted by

the u.s. attorney's office in new jersey. the same office that chris christie himself once led. after we reported on this program in january that hoboken mayor claimed that new jersey lieutenant governor had threatened to with hold hurricane sandy relief money if the mayor did not support a construction project in hoboken, o'donnell denied the allegation and the mayor turned over her evidence to the federal prosecutors, for months a federal grand jury in newark has been hearing evidence as prosecutors gather it. reportedly about both the bridge shutdown and whether the administration threatened to with hold relief funds in hoboken. this week we learned lieutenant governor kim guidano has been subpoenaed about so-called hoboken issues. bob mcdonnell and chris christie were both atlantic coast governors with national ambitions. one of them was convicted this week on a 11 federal counts of corruption. and the other still all but campaigning for the white house as federal prosecutors decide in coming weeks whether to bring charges against anyone in his administration or in his

political orbit. could federal prosecutors in new jersey feel more emboldened to pursue charges against members of the christie administration in the wake of 11 guilty verdicts against governor mcdonnell? what impact would a mcdonnell acquittal have this? and what could this mean on governor christie's designs on higher office. joining me is former federal prosecutor paul butler who is now a professor at georgetown law and brian thompson, a veteran political reporter for wnbc. former federal prosecutor, i know this only as an outsider, but the justice department sort of rolled the dice here in virginia they brought this case against mcdonnell. a lot of people said i don't know if you can prove this and they went 11 for 11 against mcdonnell. this is a grand slam home run for the justice department. does that, the psychologically, does that embolden them in a way that losing wouldn't have? looking at a case like christie's? >> of course, steve. so if we think about what government, government or

mcdonnell was accused of doing, he accepted some gifts from a supporter. and in exchange, what he did was help promote the business. a lot of people didn't think that that was a crime. they thought that that's how politics works. you scratch my back, i scratch yours. 12 jurors, some of whom voted for this guy, unanimously said that's a crime. and they're sending him up the river for a long time. so if i was governor christie, would i be shaking in my boots right now? you bet i would. >> and how does it work on the other end? if let's say, let's say there had been an acquittal in this case, let's say mcdonnell and his wife walked out of there, free of everything, egg on the face of the prosecutors, whether it's new jersey or somewhere else, are people in the justice department responding to that and telling prosecutors hey, back off here, we just took a loss, we don't want to take another loss? >> yes. this was a creative theory of prosecution. there wasn't exactly a federal crime that matched up to what

governor mcdonnell was accused of doing. so they got a little interpretive. but you know what, it worked. so again, if you're governor christie, you're thinking, you're looking at this case, you're seeing that he got off, mcdonnell got offered this quite of sweetheart deal, if he pled guilty, he would get much less time than if he went to trial. so you got to be thinking about that. again, we're a long way away from a prosecution about bridgegate or sandygate. but he's got good lawyers who were looking at this very carefully and they're worried. >> so how about that then, brian thompson? where do we know we stand? in terms of i know the u.s. attorney's office in newark right now, a lot more opaque than what is when chris yistie was the u.s. attorney. do we have a sense where we stand on this? >> i want you to think about a bowl of spaghetti. that's how many different noodles are floating around right now in this big bowl. and you have the whole thing with dawn zimmer, the mayor of

hoboken and whether whether or not there was some tit for tat with sandy money involved. and you have the original bridgegate issues and who put the cones up. now the news thread that was reported by the record is that there was some sort of higher-level, or mid-level police conspiracy in which they were telling cop who is were saying, help, help, and saying shut up. okay? you've got that going as part of, part of the bridgegate situation. and then you have what we believe is to be an investigation of christie's good, good political friend, david sampson, the former chairman of the port authority, for his alleged influence-peddling and taking advantage of that influence as he was chairman of this huge multibillion-dollar agency. so all of these threads of spaghetti are swimming around in a bowl right now. what we don't know is which ones the prosecutor is going to pick out. and put the sauce on. and give to you know, to a

public airing of prosecution. >> are there any indications coming out of the office? any hints or any smoke signals i guess that would -- >> no, in is, and this particular prosecutor is not like former u.s. attorneys. who might let a kacat out of a g a little bit. he is keeping this so close to the vest. so we don't know. chris christie, however, also does not know. so even though it's frustrating for us as journalists to wonder geez, what is going on back there? what do you think it's like for him? >> so, paul, you talk about creative theories of prosecution. we've seen this in a couple of instances. john edwards was another one. they went after him with a creative theory, it didn't work. they went after bob mcdonnell with a creative theory, it did work. i've been saying, said with brian, let's see what comes out of the u.s. attorney's office. based on what i've read and other things, i still see with chris christie himself, taking apart everybody who is around him. i see that chris christie,

willful ignorance, a governor who didn't want to find out. didn't want to ask questions, was happy, suspicions are floating entitle air, was happy to sort of not notice. that's what it seems like to me if that's the level that the only level this ever rises to, is there a creative theory of prosecution that might still encompass that? >> yes. so again, that's not really all that different from governor mcdonnell's defense. in some ways it's not that different from governor blagojevich's defense in illinois. he's sitting in prison now. so first jurors say, come on, you know, you knew, if this guy is giving you all this stuff, you knew you had to do something in exchange. so sometimes jurors just don't believe. they think if you're sticking your head under the sand, you either didn't want to know, but you really knew. or they think that it's still you know, it's still not inconsistent with integrity to act like you didn't know. so you know the other thing here is, we thought that if there's a prosecution in bridgegate or

sandygate, you know the witnesses will be people who are snitches, who are like down and dirty with the governor. and sometimes that turns jurors off. but once again, in virginia, johnny williams, the supporter, he was down and dirty. he was not somebody who you want to you know sit next to at the four seasons. but the jurors still believed everything he said. and that's why they convicted the governor of 11 counts. >> that's one of the most interesting anecdotes from that trial. this reading about it, was the defense team let johnny williams at one point just ramble for 45 minutes, in the courtroom, thinking that the juror was say this guy is crazy. we're not going to listen, but they did listen to him. publicly we've seen the christie people really trying to impeach the integrity of some of the principles here. david wildstein, bridget kelly. and what christie himself has said publicly about bridget kelly, david wildstein, some of this stuff going back to high school. there was a press release

attacking david wildstein in high school. if they have information if any of them being attacked by the governor of information they could, could damage them to make it more likely to share with the u.s. attorney. the other thing i say is if and when this thing gets settled, these are people who are going to want to come out publicly and say something. >> you would think so. although bridget kelly is i don't want to use any of randy ma mastro's adjectives, she is not somebody normally in the public spotlight. david wildstein is a different matter. he is setting out the cones for all intents and purposes, as the port authority official. and yeah, i have a hard time believing at some point he won't want to say something. but then again, he also -- >> you got baroni, too. >> baroni is a tougher one. he and christie are like this. >> you think they still are, after all this?

>> oh yeah, i have no doubt about that. baroni got a job in a law firm in new jersey. he's being protected, shelledered, when i suggested that he and wildstein at a news conference with the governor, that they were a couple of snake oil salesmen, christie launched into me about being you know, just so editorial-minded. but you can't think of two better snake oil salesmen than what these two guys did last november in trying to say, oh, this was a traffic study. you know, i mean come on. the credibility level was zero after that. >> well, so this, tuesday, september 9th, if your clentd ar is marged, the one-year anniversary. >> candles go in the cones. >> a year out, this is where we stand. still a little undecided. we'll have brian back, we'll have you back, paul, i have a feeling there will be more to talk about. brian thompson, wnbc-tv and georgetown university law professor, paul butler. up next, the final primary

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we're now three days away from the final primary election day of the 2014 campaign. on tuesday, voters in four states will go to the polls to choose each party's candidates for the general election. once they do that, that's it. the fall campaign will officially be set. and one of those states, the biggest of them that will be voting on tuesday is new york. governor of new york, andrew cuomo, a man with one of the biggest names in democratic politics, has just gotten a public display of support from someone who has an even bigger name in democratic politics -- former new york senator, former first lady, former secretary of

state, hillary clinton. recorded a robo call urging new yorkers to get out and vote and re-elect andrew cuomo in the primary on tuesday. you might think that the son of liberal icon, mario cuomo, who is in charge of one of the bluest states in the country, you might think that he wouldn't need hillary clinton's help to make it through the democratic primary in new york. after all, andrew cuomo was elected in a landslide back in 2010. made headlines by pushing gay marriage through the new york legislature in 2011. should that be enough to rack up a lopsided victory this fall? the kind of massive victory that might get national attention, the kind of lopsided victory he is clearly hoping to win? many liberals don't view andrew cuomo as the political reason carnation of his father. the left doesn't see him as quite the same hero. many liberals believe he is their enemy and now they are fighting him. cuomo has governed new york from the middle. he's taken actions and made gestures that appear bipartisan

to make him attractive to democrats and republicans. cuts in the estate tax and corporate taxes, installed action on campaign finance reform. those are some of the highlights of his first term. now think of where the energy in the democratic grassroots is right now? whether it's in new york or nationally. increasingly, it's with the liberal and populist economic messages, fighting inequality. raising taxes on the wealthy. standing up to wall street. some new yorkers see cuomo as a bit of a relic, a wall street-friendly democrat. a kind more common before the 2008 meltdown. and before the great recession. and then there's this -- a report this week that cuomo was quote deeply involved in convincing several key democratic members of the state senate to defect two years ago, into form an alliance with republicans. thereby denying the democratic party control of the state senate, and denying liberal as chance to push more progressive legislation on to the governor's desk. there is also the blockbuster

story this summer about an anti-corruption commission that cuomo established and then apparently shut down, as it started to ask uncomfortable questions about him and some of his allies. and that's what brings us to tuesday's primary. cuomo is being challenged by a woman named zephyr teachout. a professor at fordham. authored a book about political corruption and manager of howard dean's 2004 presidential campaign. the expectation is that cuomo will easily defeat her on tuesday. the question is whether teachout will do surprisingly well. remember, cuomo's goal has been to show strength in this re-election, to rack up big numbers that will impress people nationally. so what happenes if there's so much anger on the left that he gets held to an embarrassingly low number in his own party's primary? ha does that say about him? what does it say about his brand of politics, the state of liberalism? and who knows, just a few months ago, no one even suspected that eric cantor was in any danger in his republican primary in virginia. once in a while, funny things do happen in politics.

zephyr teachout, the candidate, looking to unseat andrew cuomo as governor will be here at this desk on the other side of the break. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. a woman who loves to share her passions. grandma! mary has atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts her at a greater risk of stroke. rome? sure! before xarelto®, mary took warfarin, which required monthly trips to get her blood tested. but that's history. back to the museum? not this time! now that her doctor switched her to once-a-day xarelto®, mary can leave those monthly trips behind. domestic flight? not today! like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce afib-related stroke risk. but xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem that doesn't require regular blood monitoring.

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the subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru. is joining me now is new york gubernatorial candidate and formham university candidate, zephyr teachout. challenging andrew cuomo in this tuesday's primary. thanks for joining us. the news yesterday, among other things, you have now got former first lady, the overwhelming favorite to be the next democratic nominee for president, now weighing in on behalf of your opponent, doing robo calls. what is your reaction when you find out that hillary clinton is trying to help out andrew cuomo to beat you? >> i have to be honest with you, when i heard the news, i know this sounds a little backwards, but i was really happy. >> of course i would have loved hillary clinton's support, or not to have her be doing robo calls, but we haven't done any internal polls and the press hasn't, and we know andrew cuomo

is polling. and it's a big ask to ask hillary clinton to do something. we don't know if he traded away a presidential bid to do this rebo call. but we know he's scared. it's a real sign he's scared. this is calling in every single heavyweight can he call and i'm getting calls from politicians who are calling me to say hey i'm so sorry i have to do this. i have to endorse andrew, but he called me, and you know, i need to do this or that, deal with him. he's clearly making the calls. their numbers are showing something, which we have been feeling, we have so much momentum on our side. >> where's the energy, we gave the clif notes on the first term of andrew cuomo. he would say on guns i've had a great progressive record, on gay marriage i have a great progressive record. my overall approval rating, very good. the single biggest indictment of andrew cuomo as governor, what would you say? >> the biggest thing we see among democrats broadly is they think he's out for himself. not serving the people of this

state. people will forgive small things, but if they feel like he's basically serving his donors, which is what they feel, there's a lot of anger around that. the big problem around the state, we're now the most eunequal state with the most segregated schools in the country. and he, you said earlier he was middle of the road, he's not middle of the road, he's a reagan trickle-down republican. >> the son of mario cuomo? >> he is. if you look at what he's fought for, he's taken billions of dollars from public education, and instead, fought for tax give-aways for big banks. dax give-aways for millionaires, tax give-aways for some companies and those companies tend to be his donors. he's really a trickle-down republican. and there's a few things he's done that are important, but that doesn't make up for the fact that overall, his economic policy does not match where new yorkers are. new york is a real democratic state and i'm a real traditional democrat. >> what is success? you have not done polling, there's no independent polling that i have seen in this race. i'm looking back at past

primaries here in new york where hillary clinton got challenged when she ran for re-election in the senate in 2006. her challenger got 17% of the vote. what is it, at what level are you making a statement with these results? is it i'm not making a statement. i'm running to win. if you look back at the past primaries, we're expecting a very small turnout. half a million, a million. so we think we need 350,000 votes to win and we can see it. because there are people who are so angry and all of these different areas, immigrant rights activists are really angry. andrew cuomo failed to pass the dream act in new york state. he failed to pass the women's equality state. >> now so much of this has to do, we put this in the opening there. new york-specific thing. but for a national audience, the democrats won control of the state senate in the elections in new york. and it's reported that andrew cuomo basically said he would prefer to have republicans control the state senate. >> that's absolutely right. it sort of proves what we've

already known. proves it. he prefers republican control in new york state. he's not a democrat. that's where we're getting so much momentum. it's a democratic state. >> so, what do you make -- we say hillary clinton, another prominent democrat who has been out leading the charge for andrew cuomo, big de blasio. a lot of people new york and nationally look at the name de blasio and say this is a model progressive leader. are you disappointed with bill de blasio? >> on this, of course i am. his policies fit my policies, not andrew cuomo's, it doesn't make any sense. >> why do you think he's doing that in. >> clearly cuomo is calling in every single favor he can. >> ha do you think de blasio would owe a guy like cuomo? >> i can't know. i would love to hear bill de blasio answer that. but andrew cuomo isn't answering those questions, he's refusing to debate. it's really disrespectful. we're getting a lot of energy because people feel like he's not respecting the voters.

it's not just bill de blasio. he has the head of the assembly, the former governor, he's calling everybody to come out and attack me and support him. that's the best evidence that we have momentum here. >> and -- >> there's a lot of excitement. it's really too bad about hillary clinton. because there is a lot of excitement about having the first woman governor in new york state, you know, there is a real sense that all the news, this old boy's club. i don't know if you remember the sexual harassment scandals, but it's a very male, very secretive culture. >> three men in a room. that's the way people describe itted. >> there's a lot of real excitement about having a woman in the office. >> the others are here, you, again this is a complicated new york theme. but it's fascinating. you have a lieutenant governor candidate, his name is tim mooho, who you're running with. you're not together on the ballot. the race for lieutenant governor is separate. and there's definitely a lot of fear from the cuomo people that his hand-picked lieutenant governor, a former congresswoman from upstate. her name is kathy ogle. that she might lose to your

candidate. do you think your candidate will defeat kathy ogle? >> absolutely. an historic election, he'll be the first asian-american to win. and he's the first asian-american to be running state wide on a constitutional ticket. there's a lot of excitement around that. people see history in the making right now. there's a dynasty governor who hasn't really searched as a democrat. there's a far right lieutenant governor, and then there's tim and i, tim and i, both of us come, we're internet natives, we represent a new kind of politics. >> so if andrew cuomo wins nomination. if he does defeat you on tuesday, will you support him in the general election? >> i am running to win. i'm putting all my energies into winning. >> no pledge to support the democratic, you are running the democratic primary the will you support the democratic candidate? >> i would love to hear andrew cuomo answer that question and love to hear him debate and be on shows like this. he's been in hiding, while

putting out all of these surrogates, he locked a lot of guts in this whole primary, lacked the guts to go on shows and defend his record, instead, he keeps putting out surrogates. >> and you are running to win and but again, i ask you for a number in part because there's also the possibility the cuomo calculation seems to be if he stays away from this he thinks he'll get a high-enough margin and people will look at the race and say you know what, the whole liberal uprising was a bunch of people who knew how to make noise, but didn't add up to anything. is there a concern that what if you show up and only get 15%? >> every step along the way, folks have underestimated us and in so doing, they've underestimated democrats in new york state. think that you could just take the democrats for granted. and you can't. i started with $8,000 when i started running three months ago. and now we have andrew cuomo running scared. just three more days and we're going to have a moment. >> do you think, final question,

this issue with the moreland commission, the anti-corruption commission, do you think andrew cuomo committed any crimes? >> he's under federal investigation. and there's a serious question about whether he committed the crime of criminal solicitation of official misconduct. that's under state law as well as the possible federal crimes i don't know whether he did anything illegal. i know what he did was wrong. >> zephyr teachout, andrew cuomo's democratic opponent in this tuesday's primary in new york, good luck on tuesday, i appreciate you joining us today. we welcome having governor cuomo on the show any time that he wants. open invitation, issue it now and issue it going forward. also on tuesday in massachusetts, there's going to be a primary for governor where martha coakley is making something of a comeback attempt, four years after her shocking loss to scott brown in the race for ted kennedy's seat. we'll be looking closely at her story tomorrow. and there's rhode island an intense race for governor going on and my favorite election anywhere this year, the race for mayor of providence. that's where buddy c and c, the

former mayor and maker of a delicious pasta sauce is running as an independent. his opponent this tuesday we'll be talking to buddy on the show tomorrow and trust me, you will not want to miss that, more ahead, right after this. good morning, usher! hey! did you know bees communicate through dance? me too... we're practically twins!

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his wallet, hoping that some day sandy koufax will sign it it's norm ornstein. now, the host of "up against the clock" steve carnacki! [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you, thank you! thank you contestants, thank you to everybody tuning in at home for another exciting edition of "up against the clock." let me remind you how it works, it's a fast-paced political news and current events quiz, we'll play three rounds, each of them 100 seconds long. questions are worth 100 points in the first round, 200 points in the second, 300 in the third. get a little harder as we go. and contestants you may ring in at any time. i caution you you will be penalized for any incorrect answers. also, there are two special bonus questions scatter throughout the questions here. we will explain them when they come up. a hans for you to earn a little extra point value for yourselves. our contestants will be playing not just for victory, but also

for a chance to play in our tournament of champions. to qualify, you will have to first win today. as always, i will implore our live studio audience -- please -- no outbursts. contesta contestants, ask if you're ready? if you are, to put your hands on your buzzers, riddy or not, here comes the 100-point round. 100 seconds on the clock. the easiest questions we have. they start with this -- although federal officials claim that no consumer data had been stolen, it was confirmed this week that hackers breached this already-troubled government insurance enrollment website. norm? >> the affordable care act -- >> we need a name. >> healthcare.gov. >> 100 points for norm. >> of his defeat from congress, it was announced this week that this former house republican -- norm? >> eric cantor. >> that's right. bill clinton campaigned in florida yesterday, for this republican -- >> karen?

>> charlie crist. >> that's correct. 100-point question here. the first openly gay player drafted by an nfl team -- robert if. >> michael sam. >> incorrect, i'll finish the question, was released by the team that drafted him, the st. louis rams. leaving -- >> dallas cowboys. >> correct. stop the clock. not only do you get 100 points for correctly answering the question. but that is the video bonus trigger question. because -- >> whoa. >> now you have a chance to add an extra 100 points to your score. we've asked a celebrity to read a famous political quote. correctly identify who said the quote, you'll get your 100 extra points, no penalty for guessing wrong. so let's take a look at the monitor for this week's video bonus question. >> hi, i'm kaly graham, miss teen usa i have this week's "up against the clock" quote of note. this president once famously said, there is nothing wrong

with america that cannot be cured by what is right with america. good luck. >> karen buzzed in. who is it? >> bill clinton? >> it is bill clinton. 100 extra points for karen finney. she takes the early lead. we'll put the clock back on. we're back with this. 1-point toss-up question. this pharmacy megachain announced -- >> cvs. >> will no longer sell tobacco products. 100 points for her. the only scheduled debate was held thursday night, between republican neil cashkarri in this democrat -- norm? >> jerry brown. >> seeking a fourth term as a governor of california, 100 points for norm. after a "chicago tribune" investigation into campaign-related travel expenses, it was announced this week $14,000 was returned to city coffers by this -- >> rahm emanual. >> correct. while on the trip to a nato summit england, president obama

visited this -- >> norm. >> stonehenge. >> we will not get it in. that's the end of the 100-point round. intense competition between norm and karen. robert, good news, can you make up lots of ground very quickly because we are now moving to the 200-point round. a little harder. >> that buzzer thing is tough. >> much, much more fun. here we go. 200-point questions. we put the 100 seconds on the clock and start with this -- pli politico reported on thursday this former white house chief of staff under bill clinton -- karen? >> tom podesta. >> correct. as part of their ongoing divorce proceedings, the ex-wife of this congressman who famously left her -- >> robert. >> mark sanford. >> stop the clop. 200 points puts you in positive territory. exciting news for you, that was our use it or lose it bonus question. you have a chance to double what

you just won. this one is not risk-free. i have here a follow-up question. the one you just answered, it is somehow related. it is worth 200 extra points if you answer it correctly, if you're wrong, you will lose the 200 points you just won or you can pass, no points won, no points lost. would get you much closer. robert, will you use it or lose it. >> i i'm going to use it. >> here's your somehow related 200-point bonus question. speaking of south america, the skeleton of a giant dinosaur thought to be among the largest land animals ever to live was discovered this week in this country, the same country that mark sanford's fiancee is from. >> argentina? >> argentina is correct. 200 points, he used it, he gets it. a much closer game. we put the clock back and roll it. with this toss-up. this famous glossy women's magazine, originally founded in 1886 as a literary journal announced this week that it will be making candidate endorsements during the mid-term election.

karen? >> "cosmopolitan." she said with confidence, yes. after officially retiring from the senate at the end of the year, he'll pursue a national convention to amend the constitution. this oklahoma republican -- norm? >> tom coburn. >> he said this week, 200 points for norm. if greg orman wins the kansas senate race, he will become the first independent candidate to win a senate election since whom? norm? >> angus king . >> yes. beating out neighboring western states, nevada governor brian sandoval announced on thursday that his state has won the right -- karen? >> tesla. >> a factory for tesla. 200 for karen, she's back in the lead. nip and tuck. in its first ad campaign guns a corporate gun policy, the gun safety group moms demand action is targeting the open carry policy of this largest grocery chain in america. karen? >> walmart? >> walmart is incorrect. norm or robert, take a guess?

we'll call time. it's kroger. kroger is the chain. 200-point question. we will not get it in. end of round, karen slips from the lead with the incorrect answer, but it's a close one. 900 to 800. robert sitting there off the pack with 300. but very much in contention. because this is the round of champions. the 300-point round. questions a little harder, but a lot more valuable. we dim the lights for dramatic effect and going to crown a champion. in this round. 100 seconds on the clock. let us decide who wins this game. 300-point questions begin now. a federal appeals court in chicago on thursday ruled gay marriage bans in these two states -- robert? >> indiana and wisconsin. >> correct. double his score, please. 300-point question. after his official twitter handle sent out a suggestive picture of a model on wednesday, this delaware governor apologized -- norm? >> jack markel. >> sent it out accidentally, yes, correct. 300-point question. five of the seven living ex-secretaries of state attended

the groundbreaking of the u.s. diplomacy center museum in washington on on wednesday. not attending with as this reagan secretary of state, karen? >> i'm sure this is wrong -- kissinger? >> kissinger is incorrect. robert? >> george schultz. >> george schultz is correct, robbery. it was reported this week that the grandson of the longest-serving senator in rhode island history, who is now a candidate for governor of that state -- norm? >> pell. >> claiborne pell is correct. usa today reported this week that michelle obama's brother, craig robinson, would be hired by espn as an analyst after he was fired as the head coach of basketball team -- norm? >> oregon state. >> at oregon state, the beavers, that's correct. 300 points for norm. while joining with fast food striking fast food workers on thursday, congresswoman gwen moore was arrested. what state does she represent? time, she's from wisconsin. 300-point question. despite the creation of fewer overall jobs than expected, the

labor department's newly released jobs report in the month of august dipped to this percent? karen? >> 6.1? >> correct, 300-point question. professing to be open to raising the minimum wage, he once favored eliminating it. bruce rounder, the republican nominee for governor of this midwest everyone state is now -- norm? >> illinois. >> illinois is correct. 300 for norm. norm ornstein, you won last year, you won this year, and you've won it and bill walton is going to tell you what that means. >> and our champion, your name will be engraved using the finest sharpie ink on the all-new stain resistant "up" cup and the get a copy of the classic 1988 movie "cocoon: the return." and a $50 gift certificate to a manhattan street vendor. operated by the former chef of

the russian tea room. delicious. enjoy the meal and congratulations. back to you, steve. >> all right. congratulations, norm. that is quite a prize package and to win that street vendor meat, we have your jackpot bonus question. i have a feeling you know this one. let's run it by you. here it is. for all the marbles. pat roberts, who is now in danger of being the first republican to lose a kansas city election in 82 years, first won his senate seat in 1996 when he succeed this had daughter after former republican presidential candidate. >> and that was nancy kassenbaum. >> nancy kassenbaum, correct. norm, you have won the street meat. congratulations. look at this. a check for you. you've won everything. you've cleaned us out today. congratulations. karen and robert, it was a gallant effort from both of you. a very competitive game. a lot of trading in place. you win the home edition. thank you for that. congratulations, norm.

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some breaking news just coming in during that break actually. the associated press is reporting white house officials say president obama has decided to delay immigration action until after the november elections. find out what our guests think about that. karen, the talk had been that there might be some executive action it this summer. gave up on congress doing it. now the campaign will go forward without that happening. >> i think they were getting a lot of pressure from some members, democratic members, who did not want this to come before the election and now i think just making a decision is the most important thing because now they can actually talk to the groups and make sure everybody is on the same page. >> norm, do you look at this as he's going to still have to do executive action after the election or is there going to be an opening again after the election for republicans maybe if they don't do that? >> i think it will be extremely

unlikely there will be an opening for a bill and we'll see that after the election. it was a no-brainer for alcoholism. it was clear if he had done something sweeping now it would have a negative effect in a number of those states, the red states where this is a big issue. he wasn't going to jeopardize the senate over this now. >> i noticed in the debate in north carolina this week we played some clips earlier, no, he shouldn't be doing that. does this take the issue away from the republicans? >> i don't think it takes it away. i see some of the republican senate candidates doubling down on it saying, look, he's going to do this -- he's going to try to do this after the election. we need a stronger republican senate there to be a check on an executive who is overreaching his bounds. i think it's still going to be in play for republicans. >> he does it after the election and, you know, be i would say i dare republicans to try to take it away. 2016. >> part of the story is the 2014 election is being fought on republican turf. >> that's right. >> these are red states

democrats are trying to move into 2016 and you start talking about colorado. >> georgia as well. >> right, right. i want to thank karen finney, norm of the american enterprise institute and the new older of the "up against the clock" gold cup. congratulations on that. don't drink out of it. it might poison yourself. thank you for getting up this morning. thank you at home for joining us today. join us tomorrow, sunday morning, at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. i will sit down with vincent a. buddy. i've been looking forward to this one all week. talking about his bid to win back his old job. up next is melissa harris-perry. why the president may be facing the toughest challenge of his administration. that's mess harris-perry. we'll see you tomorrow morning the at 8:00 a.m. have a great day. who's more excited about back to school savings at staples?

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this morning my question, do you have a right to expect your naked selfies will remain private? campus protests of a very different sort. and how putin is pushing nato. . but first, at what point war? good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. the search has resumed this morning for wreckage after smile private plane that crashed off the coast of jamaica yesterday after its pilot became unresponsive. the flight carrying two people tack off from rochester, new york, friday morning heading for naples, florida. the plane veered off course and the pilot stopped responding to air traffic controllers prompting norad,