sterol. thank you! an about-face on immigration reform. less than 24 hours ago president obama said he'd address the issue soon. now he's delaying action again. >> you can't contain an organization that is running roughshod through that much territory causing that much havoc, displacing that many people, killing that many innocents. >> the president, though, not delaying action against isis. the united states now part of a ten-country coalition and the

president vows to take the fight to the terror group. also right now a nebraska hospital is treating a third american for ebola. but will all supplies of the experimental drug, they're gone. what are his options now. a georgia dad accused of leaving his little boy in a hot car to die has now been charged. we'll break down the case against him. and a big discovery this week. scientists have foundry mains of the biggest dinosaur ever discovered. big guy. bigger than a boeing 737. we have a very big idea today. and hello to you all. i'm t.j. holmes. thank you so much for spending some time with us. we begin with this developing story. president obama has abandoned hope of taking action on immigration reform before the end of the summer. that was the promise. white house officials today saying the president will delay any action until after november's congressional elections. nbc's luke russert at the white

house for us with details. this is all about politics irks it is, t.j. it's very surprising to any hear politician, much less the president of the united states, to admit that a decision of theirs is being influenced by an election. in this case the president is saying because of how politically sensitive this immigration is, the president will not make executive action regarding immigration reform until after the midterms. it's being done at the behest of folks within the democratic party that want to ensure the democrats maintain their senate majority. a lot of red state democrats, and i pressed people on this point, they are vulnerable because the electorate in the midterm is an older, whiter electorate that would not take to kindly to immigration reform. so in states like north carolina, louisiana, arkansas, alaska, you see the reason why the president when you look at the poll numbers there, you see

the reason why the president and his team ended up making this decision. now, i can tell you on the flip side they're taking a lot of heat from immigration reform groups, a lot of latino advocacy groups saying that they are punting in a situation that is catastrophic. if you think about it, if the law is going to change, if the president has made a decision, we don't know what it will be, pertaining to immigration reform but if he's made a decision to have executive action in two months, inevitably somebody within this two-month period will most likely be deported or subjected to some sort of legal action who would not be and that's due precisely to politics. republicans are calling this cynical, saying the president is trying to move forward on amnesty by himself. there's that key word, trchl.j. amnesty. a lot of democrats do not want to have to deal with that word being thrown at them because of actions of the president and that's why you're seeing this delay. >> now you're seeing this delay, but still they're saying the president will take some kind of

action by the end of the year, so that's the new target. but is there anything we could possibly see, another political roadblock between election day in november and the end of the year? >> not necessarily i would say on immigration. there is a government funding issue that has to be taken care of by september 30th and more likely than not cooler heads will prevail on that. there is some worry that if the president moved on executive action on immigration reform republicans would try to block the funding of the government because they were upset by that but that should not occur now. what you'll see, t.j., is a very interesting lame duck session where folks that are no longer -- who might no longer be in office next year will be subjected to some sort of executive action and potentially maybe an immigration vote, depending on how that executive action is received in washington, d.c., and throughout the country. >> luke russert for us at the white house. thank you so much. >> reporter: take care. >> later this hour we'll get reaction to the president's

delay from the national director of the dream action coalition. the president, who just returned from the nato summit in wales is also facing foreign policy challenges on two fronts. the cease-fire in the eastern part of ukraine appears to be holding at this time. ukraine and russian-backed separatists signed the cease-fire agreement yesterday after five months of bloodshed. the president sought and won support from nine other nations for coordinated action against isis militants in iraq and syria. u.s. forces today carried out air attacks near positions near erbil, iraq. the u.s. central command has conducted 133 air strikes against isis in iraq. state department deputy spokesman marie harf is with me now. let's all listen to these strong words from the president at that summit. >> we are going to degrade and ultimately defeat isil the same way that we have gone after al qaeda. we have been very systematic and methodical in going after these kinds of organizations that may

threaten u.s. personnel and the homeland. and that deliberation allows us to do it right. >> that deliberation, the president wants to get this right. can it get done still? is there still the feeling it can be done without forces, u.s. forces on the ground? >> well, t.j., we've been clear that we are not going to put combat troops on the ground in iraq, in syria, to go after isis. what you heard the president outline very clearly yesterday was the way in which you go after terrorist groups. first, you push them back from territory they hold. we're starting to do that in iraq. as you said, more strikes against isis just today. you take their leadership off the battlefield. you take out their capabilities to plan large-scale attacks. you cut off their funding, you cut off their networks of foreign fighters, and eventually you really shrink their capabilities to get to a place where they cannot threaten the united states. the president has shown he can do that, he's willing to do that in places like pakistan, places

like yemen. just this week taking out the leader of al shabaab in somalia. we have tools to do this, we know how to do it and the president is committed to doing it. >> the president wanted some help doing it as well. this alliance we're talking about made up of the nine other nato members that have agreed to a coordinated military strategy. should we still look at this and the united states look at this as part of a coalition now or is this a coalition still that the u.s. feels that it is and must lead and, therefore, the bulk of this effort still falls on the u.s.? >> well, we are absolutely leading in the fight against isis. again, we have done more than any country on the planet to take the fight to isis in iraq, working with the iraqis. but we do need a coalition. we think that's important because this is a threat not only to us but to countries like saudi arabia, like jordan, like turkey, other countries in the region, like the united kingdom. so secretary kerry will be continuing travel this week in the region to talk to other

countries about joining us in this effort. to be clear, it's not just a military coalition, that's only one tool here. it's a diplomatic coalition, a financial coalition, a security coalition to prevent other fighters from transiting through the countries that border iraq and syria. we're really going to bring every tool at our disposal towards this fight and other countries are going to stand beside us as we do. >> a lot of people have been hearing a lot about isis lately, but it really came home with the deaths of those awful vicious videos of the beheadings of james foley and steven sotloff. do you all, does the united states government know who that person is in that video? has he been identified yet who appears to be the one responsible for those beheadings? >> well, we're still trying to determine who exactly was responsible for both james foley and steven sotloff's brutal murder. the intelligence community is poring over every detail in those videos to determine that. as you heard the president say,

no matter how long it takes, we will find out who's responsible and hold them accountable as we've done in many other places around the world when people have attacked americans. we do know there is a very serious threat from westerners, including british citizens and some americans returning after they have gone to syria to fight. we believe this is a british citizen in these videos, so that's a threat we're very focused on right now. we're working with our british counterparts on. it's something we take very seriously here as well. >> and you just mentioned as well the leader of al shabaab taken out by a drone strike in somalia. where is the u.s., i suppose, in dealing with the threat of al shabaab and what kind of threat right now that you believe al shabaab does pose to the united states? >> well, we think this u.s. military action this week that took out the leader of al shabaab was a very significant operational loss for the group. this is a man who publicly claimed responsibility for the west gate attack, the horrific

attack at that mall that we saw months ago, has also taken credit for a number of other attacks and openly talked about targeting americans as well. so this is an example of a place where there is an al qaeda affiliated group of fighters that we have certain tools we can use to go after. part of that is also about building our partners on the ground in, a place like somalia and yemen. i think it demonstrates the fact that no matter where these terrorists operate, plot and plan around the world, we will bring the unique tools the united states has to the fiechlt we are very focused on al shabaab, even given this week's success against its leader. >> what is the focus when a group like al shabaab says they will retaliate for the u.s. air strike. what is the u.s. doing in response to a direct threat? >> in response to any direct threat we are very vigilant. we have a number of intelligence resources we put towards tracking those kinds of threats, not just from al shabaab but

other groups as well, including now isis who has said they want to attack americans and of course already has in the case of james foley and steven sotloff. it's something we're constantly vigilant about. that's why we are taking the fight directly to them. we want to cut off their ability to plan large-scale attacks, to attack americans, really take away their capabilities. while terrorism will always be a tactic people will use, what we in the united states can do is take away the capabilities of those terrorists to attack us. taking out the leader of al shabaab this week was a very good start. >> with the anniversary of september 11th coming up, is there anything on you all's radar to change any security around the world in anticipation of a possible attack or even information that you have with anything being planned with the september 11th anniversary coming up? >> you're right, it is an anniversary that we always watch for security reasons. we always take additional security measures if we feel they're appropriate, both here

and home and at our embassies, facilities, posts overseas. it's something we're watching, something we're tracking. i don't have any specific threat information to share today, but it's certainly an anniversary and a date that we are very aware of and very focused on. >> state department deputy spokesperson marie harf, thank you so much. always appreciate you being willing to update our viewers. >> thanks, t.j. 12 minutes past the hour now. jamaican search and rescue teams looking for the wreckage of the small private plane that flew unmanned yesterday but the pilot apparently slumped over and unresponsive. the plane was tracked by u.s. fighter jets before it went down off the jamaican coast, likely killing the pilot and his wife onboard. meanwhile an investigation is under way today into what could have caused the experienced pilot to lose consciousness. nbc's mark potter with the latest for us on this search and rescue. excuse me, i should say search and investigation of this case. again, really a mystery in the skies, mark. >> reporter: yeah, it is.

and what's happening here, t.j., on the ground in the seas off jamaica put simply, they're still trying to find the plane and the victims from that crash that occurred about 14 miles due northeast, right behind me in the waters off the coast of jamaica, the northern side. yesterday they thought they actually may have found pieces of that plane with some crew members from a jamaican defense force helicopter spotted what they thought was a debris field out there about 28 miles offshore. they also said that they took some pictures, they distributed them and also said some crew members from an american c-130 aircraft saw the same area and also believed that it looked like a high impact debris field. but then when they called in the surface ships to the area to get a verification, the ships couldn't find anything. today in subsequent flights early this morning and even just two hours ago, another helicopter flight out there, they couldn't find anything at

all, so that search continues in the waters behind me. a big search out there with a number of vessels and planes, also with help from the u.s. coast guard. still looking but haven't found anything they can verify. no sign of the victims and no personal effects. they may have found pieces of the airplane, but that's unconfirmed right now, t.j. >> nbc's mark potter with the update. thank you so much. coming up, a georgia dad accused of leaving his son in a hot car to die. we'll break down the charges he's now facing. and doctors in the u.s. are treating a third american ebola patient. since all the doses of an experimental drug are now gone, what are his treatment options? . thank you mom for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family,

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17 minutes past the hour now. the third american to contract the ebola virus in west africa

is back in the u.s. and is in stable condition today. his name is rick sacra, you see him there, 51 years old. he's being treated in a special isolation unit in nebraska in omaha. doctors say the father of two is conscious and able to communicate with hospital staff. his wife, debbie, is expected to fly to omaha today to be by his side. this as world health officials scramble to develop new ways to treat this deadly virus, including blood transfusions from people who were infected with ebola but survived. sar sarah dalloff is in nebraska. >> reporter: well, t.j., one thing we know that was not a treatment option is the drug given to the first two ebola patients called zmapp. it showed potentially a lot of promise in them. unfortunately, it was given to seven people and that supply is exhausted. the company says it's going to

take months to make more but doctors do have other options. the one you mentioned is this blood serum from people who have survived ebolebola. it's what the world health organization is recommending be started in africa. there are also two potential vaccines that will begin human trials later this month and they could be given to health care workers in these hot zones, like dr. sacra, by the end of the year. >> also the other two americans went to atlanta, the emory health facility there, and clearly something worked there and went well. so why did this patient go to nebraska and not go to atlanta where it seems like they have at least a recent track record of doing pretty well with ebola patients? >> reporter: that's a great question, t.j., because obviously all the measures are in place in atlanta at emory university hospital. you know, the staff knows what's going on, they have a transport plan and it's a really good question. but the state department told officials here in omaha that

they want to test out the various facilities equipped to handle these ebola patients in these controlled measure. you know, more than 2,000 people have died in africa and we have four facilities here that are really equipped with these specialty biocontainment units. so while they only have a few patients coming here right now, let's test them out and then with the outbreak just growing and growing, let's bring more in if we need to after we see how the tests go and these trials go and what needs to be tweaked. interestingly enough, the hospital here actually relied on emory university hospital for some suggestions to tweak their program and to tweak their procedures. they say they haven't changed anything with patient care but things like foot traffic in and out of the rooms and exactly what supplies they'd need, that has been something that emory university was able to give them some suggestions on. >> one last thing here, the three americans are back but they were there in west africa because they were trying to help out. these are health care workers themselves. there is concern now that there will be fewer and fewer health

care workers willing to go and put themselves at risk. what do we do now? what are the plans to try to continue to get people to volunteer, to really help stop the spread of this virus in the first place? >> that is a really big concern because this outbreak isn't going away any time soon and they really need these qualified medical personnel to assist with these operations. for example, sim, the organization these three aid workers worked for, they are really investigating how exactly these three aid workers contracted ebola. for example, dr. sacra wasn't even in the ebola ward, he was in the maternity ward working with patients that were supposedly healthy, so they really want to isolate where they are coming into contact with ebola so they can prevent it in the future. the sim president did speak a little bit yesterday and he said they continue to be impressed by the volunteers that are still stepping up. for example, dr. sacra made the decision to go to liberia after the other two were infected.

he knew they had ebola when he made the decision to leave his home in boston and go to africa. and once he got sick, one of his colleagues left for africa as well within 24 hours to treat dr. sacra and dr. sacra's patients. >> sarah dallof in omaha, thank you so much today. friends and family will pay their last respects to comedian joan rivers tomorrow. funeral services will be held at temple emanu-el in new york. she went into cardiac arrest at a routine procedure at a doctor's office. the new york state health department is conducting an investigation into what happened. great for frank, who's quite particular... russian jazz funk? next to swedish hip hop. when he knows what he wants... - thank you. do you have himalayan toad lilies? spotted, or speckled? speckled. yes. he has to have it. a cubist still life of rye bread...

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which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side if energy could come from anything?. or if power could go anywhere? or if light could seek out the dark? what would happen if that happens? anything. prosecutors in georgia are deciding whether to seek the death penalty against a man indicted on murder charges for leaving his young son in a hot car. he faces eight counts including

murder and cruelty to children. he said that it was an accident and that he forgot about his 22-month-old son, cooper, while he went to work at home depot. pru prosecutors say harris researched hot car deaths online and wanted a life without a child. he pleaded not guilty to initial murder charges and remains in jail. is this a death penalty case? >> it's unusual. there are 19 states with laws against abandoning a child in a car, it's not a capital crime, but in this case prosecutors feel their hand is strengthened by the evidence they were able to find, especially sexting, particularly with an underaged girl. all very helpful for the prosecution and really tough for the defense in this case. >> that is icky. this part of the story is going to play how big of a role, let me ask you that. for people that need to be reminded, he was at work that day. said he forgot his son but during the day he was sexting with a lot of different folks,

women apparently, and one of them was underage. what's the significance of that to proving the murder against him. >> let's start with the prosecution side. the prosecution in a way gets an awful windfall here because not only did they have evidence of his awful character, which of course wouldn't prove he was a me murderer, now they have evidence of additional crimes. you see in the indictment they had originally charged him with felony murder and child abuse. that's grown and expanded to include several counts of other felonies which are connected to sexting a 16-year-old. now all that evidence comes in, not just evidence of bad character, which the defense could argue was prejudicial, but it comes in in a case-in-chief for additional charges they can throw the book at this guy and none of it plays well obviously to a jury, already wondering how a father could forget his 2-year-old. >> you've probably got a bad case if in the defense's case they have to use this to make a defense. what i mean here, some are suggesting they could use the fact that he was sexting as a

defense, saying, you know what, it was awfully distracting and his mind was somewhere else. is that possibly going to be used by the defense? >> you know, they're going to quickly run into a series of brick walls, in part because the prosecution charged two different types of murder. if they can prove that he intended to murder his son, that he had done these internet searches with an eye toward this heinous act, then in a way the sexting doesn't matter because his intent was carried out. you know, of course the defense has to defend this guy zealously and they'll pull everything out of their bag to do their best, but he's created a lot of obstacles to a clean defense through his internet history, both the sexts and the prior searches that both he and his wife did about things like child-free living, deaths in cars. >> is that the only thing that could possibly prove intent are those internet searches? that's not a whole lot, is it? >> i think the real wild card is

the wife. the district attorney has said he is not done, they are still investigating. some people have wondered where they're looking to her to put pressure on her to maybe cut a deal and testify. you can imagine how that would be game-changer. >> and yet she can't be forced to. >> no, no, no, there's a privilege. >> but she could make a deal for herself. >> it's interesting to see. what pressure will they put on her, will she be charged. >> lisa green, nbc legal analyst, thank you so much. we're at the bottom of the hour. up next, action on immigration reform has been delayed again, despite comments from president obama just yesterday that he had addressed the issue soon. i'm talking with a dreamer about the delay. stay with me. ♪

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air strike on monday. now the islamic militant group which organized the siege on a kenyan mall last year says it will launch attacks in the coming days on somalia's capital city of mowigadishu. some of the other stories making headlines, southeast michigan and the detroit area facing massive power outages after a vicious storm knocked out power. a 40-year-old man was killed when he stepped on a downed power line. texas gubernatorial candidate wendy davis has revealed that she had two abortions in the 1990s. davis writes in her new memoir that she made the difficult decision to terminate two pregnancies for medical reasons, including one in which the fetus had developed a severe brain abnormality. davis rose to prominence last summer with an 11th hour filibuster of a texas bill restricting abortions.

and chinese internet company alibaba plans to raise $24 billion in what would be the biggest ipo in u.s. history. the e-commerce company is expected to debut on the new york stock exchange a little later this month. immigration activists were dealt another blow today. the white house announced that executive actions by the president on immigration will now happen after the november elections. it's a complete reversal from june when the president defiantly said he would act by the end of the summer. >> if congress will not do their job, at least we can do ours. i expect the recommendations before the end of the summer. and i intend to adopt those recommendations without further delay. >> but yesterday he appeared to double down on that. take a listen. >> what i'm unequivocal about is that we need immigration reform. i'll be making an announcement soon. but i want to be very clear, my

intention is in the absence of -- in the absence of action by congress, i'm going to do what i can do within the legal constraints of my office, because it's the right thing to do for the country. >> erica andiola is a dreamer and the national director of the dream action coalition and mark aputo, both here with me. thank you for being here. erica, give me your reaction. the president said no action until at least the end of the year. >> first of all, thank you so much for the invitation to the program. you know, i can think of one thing and that is the fact that the president has just literally thrown the latino and immigrant community completely under the bus once again. i'm really angry. we were preparing for this announcement. we had here locally in arizona, we had already forums with the community asking them to get prepared with their documents if daca was to be expanded and now we have to go back to our

community and say, you know what, the president broke another promise and here we are again, waiting for at least one of the parties to really care about the latino community in this case honestly, none of them have. we're in a tough situation. >> it's only a few more months. it sounds like you just don't have faith in that anymore. that the president says he will take action by the end of the year. you're not holding out a lot of faith for that? >> you know, we have heard promises from the president since he took office. we heard that he was going to pass immigration reform around 2010. that didn't happen. democrats had a majority in the house, the senate and the president was there. that didn't happen. the dream act didn't happen. now he has promised that he was going to act on this by the end of the summer. that hasn't happened either. so at this point we still continue to have hope because there's really all that we have. we have tons of people right now within the community that are in deportation proceedings or who are detained in detention centers.

so we have hope but at the same time we don't trust the president anymore. and we're going to continue fighting, we're going to continue pressuring. both the president and his party to make sure that they understand that when latinos are getting thrown under the bus, they need to understand that. the latino electorate has been very supportive of the president in the past and thanks to our community, he did win in 2012. >> mark, let me bring you in here. >> sure. >> what does the president say to folks like erica who share that sentiment now? where does the president go from here? i heard -- there was one quote i saw earlier that someone said it's like a guy who keeps promising he's going to marry you and when he finally asks, you're going to want a two carat ring instead of a one carat ring, meaning he may have to go a long way to satisfy somebody who's been wagtd and waiting and waiting. >> he does kind of sound like bad santa. he has a tendency to promise a lot of gifts and not deliver them. he is looking at his party's

success in the midterm elections. whether it's demographics or some other reason, among the other segments of the electorate, nonhispanic whites, hispanics are among the least reliable, especially in florida. they show up at far lower rates than nonhispanic whites. nonhispanic whites seem, conservatives especially, seem pretty fired up about what the president seems he's going to do and it's spooked the president. it's going to be very difficult for the president to argue, oh, i wasn't being political, that's why i waited until after the election. it certainly looks like a very political thing. the problem he has now is just as in 2010, he now has a very upset segment of his base. how he woos them back is going to be quite a trick. >> we heard from a couple of republicans today. let me go with -- to my director, barry, let me go with mitch mcdonnell actually is the one i want to use first, senator

minority leader mcconnell what's so cynical about today's immigration announcement is that the president isn't saying he'll follow the law, he's saying he'll go around the law once it's too late for americans to hold his party accountable in the november elections. marc, let me stay with you for a second. what are his challenges now up on capitol hill? he still says he wants to get big immigration reform done with congress, but a move like this, responses that this is just political, how does this play in washington now? >> well, great. consider that washington is all play and not action any way. the idea mitch mcconnell calls something cynical is cynical in and of itself. he's a major player in a u.s. senate that's essentially a do-nothing body along with the u.s. house. now the white house has joined them in a unison of doing absolutely nothing about a major issue. whether that's right or wrong is for other people to decide, but i think it certainly reinforces the minds of people that washington, regardless of who's in power or what chamber is just

unable to do stuff. >> erica, let me end with you in the last minute i have here. anybody who heard you at the beginning here, clearly there's some frustration with the president. but what do you think your options are other than to just hope and hope and hope that he delivers? do you feel like you have another option, whether it's to be lobbying on capitol hill or maybe trying to lobby congress, maybe trying to lobby republicans when this man, as you say, has given you support but doesn't seem to be giving the support back. >> i think we are very clear. reform is going to be really hard to pass, especially this year. in terms of us going into capitol hill and lobbying republicans, reality is that republicans have given their backs on us a long time ago. so for us it's really going to be on the ground making sure that we stop deportations. even if it has to be one by one and continue to pressure the president. there is some districts where he's worried that the democrats

are going to loochlse. there's another states like colorado, some places in arizona where the latino community is still going to decide some of those seats in the house and we'll make sure that people in those districts know where democrats have decided to stand in this whole issue instead of not following the republican party, they decided to just be scared of them and not do anything to protect people like my whole family. my mom could be deported by december. she has to show up at i.c.e. and she's in deportation proceedings. i hope that they keep that in mind and we'll continue to remine the latino community who's with us and who's not. >> erica andiola, thank you for sharing your story and giving us your reaction r marc caputo, thanks. 20 till the top of the hour. it's time to flashback. it was 17 years ago today the world said good-bye to princess diana. over 2 billion people worldwide

watched her funeral on tv in 1997. the service was held at the church in westminster abbey. 2,000 people attended to pay their respects, including elton john, steven spielberg and then first lady hillary clinton. millions more filled the streets. the princess of walds, her close companion dodi fayed and their driver were killed while trying to get away from the paparazzi. here is how nbc covered her funeral. >> good morning, everyone. this is the day that no one expected would happen, certainly not in this fashion. a princess without a throne but with the power of the people not just in her own nation but around the world, the power of love will be buried in a ceremony fit for a queen or a king, katie couric. >> it's hard to believe that almost a week ago groggy brits were turning on their television set and getting the incomprehensible news that the

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introducing cvs health. because health is everything. american researchers in argentina made a big discovery. not just big, it's the biggest actually. a new species of dinosaur that they're calling dreadnautus. it's 85 feet long, 30 feet tall, weighs in at 130,000 pounds. that's more than a t-rex and modern boeing 737 combined. the researchers who found it say it wasn't done growing. they are using lasers to map this animal to share with other paleontologists and even print their own replicas. it's today's big very idea and researcher from drexel university joins me now. you're pretty excited about this thing. this was a big boy. i say boy because this thing wasn't done growing, is that

right? >> it wasn't done growing. we can tell because the shoulder area looks immature and the bone cells themselves were growing rapidly we can see at the time of its death. so 65 tons, greater than the weight of a boeing 737 and growing fast when it died. >> now, were you surprised -- did we know things out there -- there were things out there like this, or is it a surprise to find this big sucker? i don't keep up. i know t-rex, everybody knows that one, but other than that, were researchers like yourself aware that maybe something like this was out there and we just hadn't found it yet? >> we did know that. actually it's the weight of about nine t-rex so t-rex is kind of puny compared to this. there are other fragmentary dinosaurs that were known but we haven't recovered limb bones and that's what you need to calculate the mass. in the case of dreadnoughtus,

it's the largest land mammal we can put a number on. >> so what do we do now. whether it's school books, whether it's history, i mean what it means as far as the earth. what do we do with this information now that we know this thing existed and you literally have it in your lap? >> what's probably more important about this animal is not its size but it's completeness. we recovered about 70% of the types of bones in its body. and that's a jump up from about 26% from previously known dinosaurs. so to understand their biology and behaviors and all these things, you need the skeleton and need to see where the muscles were attached and how they were put together and their body proportions and things like that. this gives us the best window that we've had so far into these supermassive giants that walk the earth. >> this idea that using this 3-d technology, this mapping, this laser of mapping, have we been able to use that before?

how important of a tool is that now that you have this thing in your lap which you can't get to but there may be a way for us still to have it in front of us. >> that's another thing we're really excited about. it took thousands of hours and we used a 3-d laser scanner to map all the bones of it and now they're now in digital files that we published on thursday with this whole dinosaur. and so now anybody in the world can download these 3-d models. and with the free version of reader, they can play around with them, they can rotate them, they can zoom in and out, they can turn bones off and on, so you might not have the credentials to get behind the scenes at a museum, you may not have the budget if you're a scientist to fly to the end of the earth, but now you can get your virtual hands on these bones and see what the scientists see. >> come on now, you scientists get paid well flying all around the world doing your thing. ken, congratulations. i know how excited you are,

drexel university there. congratulations on this thing. we will keep up and check it out. we can all check it out and have it right in front of us. thanks so much. if you have a big idea out there, it might not be as big as his, you can use the hash tag what's the big idea or use that e-mail address on your screen, big idea@msnbc.com. the nfl's summer of social change as the season just kicked off. will the league step up and be the leader its commissioner says it needs to be. ergy? learn to see it through a different set of eyes. listen to its sounds. and explore all the different sensations. this is nature. see it or not, it always fills you with energy.

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america's favorite season is under way, football season. the nfl kicked off the 2014 season thursday with the defending champ seattle seahawks beating up on green bay, 36-16. while all eyes were on the field and scoreboard, a lot of the action is happening off the field. from the league's approach to disciplining players accused of domestic violence to the controversy over the name of washington's nfl team and the first time an openly gay player

was taken in the draft. let me bring in national sports journalist and journalist professor at miami of ohio, terrance moore. sir, good to see you. let's start out in san francisco, shall we. three days after the league announced a new policy when it comes to domestic violence, an nfl player of the 49ers, ray mcdonald, arrested after police say they were visible injuries on his fiancee. he was released from jail. his coach had very strong words to say about zero tolerance for this type of thing. now mr. mcdonald is going to play tomorrow. what does this now do to the league's big moment and big chance to make up for what they even admitted was a mistake in the ray rice case when he got only a two-game suspension for a domestic violence situation? >> i mean this has made the nervous system go from looking ridiculous to even worse than that. you know, it's like two steps forward, a giant step back. as you mentioned before, t.j., even before roger goodell came

out with his get tough policy against domestic violence, you had jim harbaugh, the coach of the 49ers, talking all big and bad about what he's going to do to one of his players if they're involved in one of these situations, particularly if it involved pregnant women. lo and behold the first test case is ray mcdonald, one of jim harbaugh's star players. this week all of a sudden jim harbaugh gets amnesia. this guy is starting. not only that, this entire week when people would ask jim harbaugh about this, he went between pleading the fifth and talking about due process. this is not a good sign for the future of this policy with the nfl. >> all right. let's turn now to washington, d.c., the team there and the team name. are people going to start to maybe forget about this a little bit once football is played and rg3 makes a couple of big plays or is dan snyder going to have a problem throughout the season? >> you know what, all the surveys show that america doesn't care about this. as a matter of fact, there was an espn poll that showed a

majority of players say leave it alone which shows there are a lot of people that just don't get it. i'm very proud of my alma mater, miami of ohio. for about 70 years, miami university was nicknamed the redskins and there was some justification because it's named miami because there was a native indian tribe called the miami indians in southern ohio that has since moved to aek la. as soon as they said in the 1990s get rid of the nickname, miami of ohio switched from redskins to the redhawks. i bring that up because miami university officials have graciously offered to let the washington redskins change their nickname from redskins to redhawks. so you could have the miami of ohio redhawks and the washington redhawks also. >> in 15 seconds just let me know about michael sam. big deal that he's on a practice squad for the cowboys? >> it would be a bigger deal if the dallas cowboys put him on the regular squad. god knows they need pass rushers over one of the worst defenses. this guy can play.

jerry jones, the owner, has acknowledged that. but at the same time you have jerry jones talking out of the other side of his mouth saying that, well, he's still got a ways to go. no, he doesn't. just put him on the field, he's going to help you. >> well, there is michael sam's agent, terrance moore. thank you so much. good to see you. we'll chat again. folks, stay with me. big story today, an about-face by the president on immigration. also we still have ferguson, a lot happening there. ferguson police now, the justice department looking into what's happening. stay with me. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there.

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detained at ferguson's city jail. >> now, the ferguson police department is under the microscope. the department of justice is looking into the entire department after racial tensions flared after an officer shot an unarmed teen last month. and the fight over a driver's license photo has led to a lawsuit in south carolina. this teen says his picture doesn't show the real him. i'll talk to him and his mom. and tomorrow the world will say good-bye to joan rivers. i'll talk to the reporter who had the last major interview with the comedian. good afternoon to you all, i'm t.j. holmes. thank you so much for being here with us. we begin this hour with a developing story. the president's action on immigration reform. well, it's not going anywhere for now, at least until after the november midterm elections. the white house says the president's decision to wait was based on how highly politicized the issue has become. reaction from reform supporters and opponents was swift.

let me bring in nbc's luke russert at the white house. luke, we usually see a politician avoid trying to look like they're doing something for the sake of politics. it looks like the white house is saying, yes, this is politically motivated. >> reporter: yeah, you don't see that a lot in washington, t.j. often it's implied by aides or it's implied by folks within the campaign arms. but in this case the white house coming out and saying publicly that because it's such a politically sensitive issue and we're in the middle of a campaign season, they believe the policy could be implemented better if it did not come within the confines of the midterm elections. now, it's interesting to hear that. obviously there are some democrats who are elated to hear that. that would be really those running in senate campaigns in red states, specifically north carolina, louisiana, arkansas, alaska, those types of places. some folks that are more upset about this are a part of the democratic party that sincerely believe that by having some sort of executive action pertaining

to immigration reform that could spur la teen otino turnout in t elections. mark udall released a statement saying he was disappointed the president did not act, the latino vote could help him out there. all that being said, republicans are saying that the president is essentially admitting that he's going to move forward with amnesty through executive action and that's the language a lot of democrats wanted to avoid was that "a" word, amnesty. once it's tagged, it could have dire consequences with an electorate that is older and whiter, which we usually see around the midterm season. i also think what you pointed out earlier is very important. a lot of immigration reform advocates very upset by this. this idea that president obama used their support so much in 2012 to become re-elected and really has not been able to deliver the promise of comprehensive immigration reform to them. what you're now seeing, though,

is a calculated risk by the white house and by these campaigns for senate run by democrats that because the republican brand is so toxic amongst latinos, they can wait two months before they make an executive action, which is a change in policy. think about it, there will be families more likely than not that will be split apart because of this delay, and that will mean that they were split apart due to midterm politics, which is something i don't think the white house wants out there, but it's the truth right now. >> luke, you said some of those advocates that were upset. we had a young woman on, erica andiola, and she had some strong words. she was very upset and very disappointed quite frankly for another delay. i asked that question, you know it's going to be a couple of months delay, maybe not that long, still like you said it's a big deal if that delay will cost families being in this country. so this time around is the president going to be able to say trust me on this, i'm for

real this time, it's really going to happen. i mean should they put any more stock in this promise than others? >> reporter: well, the idea is that this time around there is no election on the immediate horizon that could be proving problematic for him to move forward. interestingly enough, a few democratic operatives i spoke to said that this was a presidential election year, he would have probably moved forward on it because it would have helped them overall in states like florida, you know, states like arizona, states like new mexico, those types -- nevada, those types of heavy latino areas. but i would suspect that the next time around when the executive action is brought up, it will be something that will significantly change current law or change current policy. it will send congress into a tizzy being upset. but this delay, disappointing those groups to such a degree the president obviously realized he owes them one. and democrats realize they owe them one, especially ahead of

the 2016 presidential election. i suspect that miss hillary clinton probably believes that they owe them one as well. >> luke, congress in a tizzy, i just had that visual in my head for a second. luke russert for us at the white house. thank you. we'll chat again. let me bring in now texas democratic congressman henry cuellar. thank you for being here. what is your reaction to the president now saying action is not coming until at least the end of the year? >> well, first of all, i always thought that the president will probably wait after the election, just knowing what reality is, what those moderate democrats that have been asking him to delay it, so i expected it. what surprised me a little bit is that even yesterday the president said, oh, we're going to do this very quickly and he had been saying that the whole summer by the end of the summer but the statement yesterday was i'm going to move on it quickly and then the next day, 24 hours later, there's a delay on this. there's a statement that comes

out. so i think those actions probably will get some of the immigrant groups angry and disappointed. but there is a silver lining to this. i think that after this, the president has no more elections. the next thing will be a 2016 election. certainly hillary clinton would appreciate that. and then it's time for him to go as big as he can after the november election because he doesn't have to worry about that. and the next one, the 2016 election probably will help nationwide to have some changes on the immigration law, whatever he can do within the law. >> congressman, you just said there as big as he can. now he might have to go as big as he can. how big does he need to go in your opinion now? what would make -- what would satisfy you, and do you think other out there immigration reform advocates? what does he have to do now to make them by the end of the year say okay, we're glad we stuck it out with this guy, and he came

through for us? >> well, you know, again, he does have some limitations, and i hope that his attorneys, and i'm sure that secretary jay johnson and the other folks have been looking at this very carefully. they're going to try to go as big as they can. i really can't answer that until we see it. but i would say -- you know, i would say that he really owes it to -- at least to the folks that have been told it's going to be done, it's going to be done, it's going to be done. i mean i personally remember the first meeting we had with him was in april of 2009, the first term, and we met -- the hispanic caucus met with him and said, sir, we've got to have immigration reform and he basically told us the timing is not right. so here we are years later and the timing is not right, but we're hoping that after this november election, the timing will be right. >> one of those folks hoping is eric ar andiola, she was on with

me a short time ago. you could tell and you could see the emotion in this young lady. i want our viewers to listen to this. but you could hear the anger in her voice as well. let's take a quick listen. >> the president has just literally thrown the latino and immigrant community completely under the bus once again. i'm really angry. >> well, she certainly had more -- that was a short clip there, but still you heard her saying in strong terms thrown under the bus. is that -- you know, to each his own and her own about it being fair. but is that an understandable and even legitimate criticism in your mind from someone like this young lady who even you just admitted this was years ago and now still the time is not right, the time is not right? >> certainly if he's been talking to groups and he's been leading them along by saying i'm going to do it pretty quickly, i'm going to do it pretty quickly, then there was an expectation for him to do it quickly. i think he had said one time at

the end of the summer. yesterday he just said i'm going to move on pretty quickly and then the next day there's a statement from the white house saying we're going to wait until after the election. so i can understand the folks that have been working with them very closely, how they could feel one disappointment and, quite honestly, anger also. >> and last thing, do you also understand why the president had to do this? do you agree that this was the right move by the president? >> well, you know, certainly we follow the line that we want to keep the senate democratic and there are some of the moderate democrats that would have had a very tough fight on this because the republicans would be very good at saying that it's amnesty and the president can't do amnesty, but they would have turned this into the "a" word, the amnesty word. i think that would have made it very difficult and certainly we want to make sure that the senate keeps in the democratic hands. >> congressman henry cuellar, we appreciate you giving us your reaction today.

i know we'll talk to you again down the road. >> thank you so much. we'll turn now to the ukraine and the cease-fire in the eastern part of that country appears to be holding for now. ukraine and russian-backed separatists signed a cease-fire after five months of bloodshed. according to a statement from ukrainian president's office, he and russian president vladimir putin talked today and discussed steps for giving the cease-fire a, quote, stable character. at least 2600 civilians have died since the fighting between pro-russian rebels and ukrainian government troops began. coming up, the department of justice is taking on in depth -- or taking an in-depth look at the ferguson police department. this after tensions boiled over between officers and protesters following the shooting death of michael brown. we'll explain what the feds are looking for. plus one of the strongest storms of the year rolled through parts of michigan, leaving hundreds of thousands of people without power. there's also a severe weather threat in the southwest right now. the forecast for you coming up.

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quarter past the hour now. more than 400,000 people in michigan are without power today. this after severe storms blew through the region last night packing powerful winds and knocking down more than 1,000 power lines. at least one person was killed. those same dangerous storms are now headed east, bringing damaging wind gusts and hail with them. also have severe weather threats in the southwest part of the country as hurricane norbert makes its way out into the pacific. the weather channel's greg forbes with the latest. >> good afternoon, t.j. it is going to be a very stormy afternoon and evening up in the northeast. we in fact already have a severe thunderstorm watch in effect from maine all the way down to new york city. that's the possibility of 1-inch hail, damaging wind gusts and maybe even a chance of a tornado, one or two of them within that area.

this is not the only area. there could also be additional storms that spread from parts of pennsylvania down into maryland and west virginia and virginia as well. so a pretty stormy day as this cold front comes through. down to the south of that frontal zone, heavy rain in the southeast and norbert pulling a lot of moisture into parts of the southwest. that's going to give the possibility of some very heavy rain and localized flash flooding there. the tail end of the front by tomorrow that comes down across the new york area today will be pushing into the southwest. the stalling out of that will give heavy rain as well and some of norbert's moisture also pulls up into the area, so we could see quite a bit of localized flooding. stay safe, don't drive through any of those flooded roadways. back to you, t.j. >> all right, dr. greg forbes from the weather channel, thank you so much. one of the jurors in the bob mcdonnell trial speaking out now following the verdict that found the former virginia governor guilty of 11 counts of corruption. that juror told msnbc's rachel maddow that ultimately she just

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arrest following a routine procedure. celebrities have continued to give their memories of rivers, including prince charles, who invited her to his 2005 wedding. he wrote joan rivers was an extraordinary woman with an original and indefatiguable spirit, an unstoppable sense of humor and enormous zest for life. i'm going to bring in the senior editor at "the daily beast" who spoke with joan rivers in his last major enter view. thank you for being here. if folks haven't read this, you need to take some time to read it because it really is fascinating. >> thank you. >> but what are your thoughts now. in that hour and a half you got to sit down and spend time with her just literally, what was it, a couple of months even before she passed. >> it's so strange because she was so full of life that afternoon. there was no sign of frailty or fragility, nothing like that. she was full of jokes. she was very unusual as a comedian because she was the same off as she was on. she was a bit more -- she was quieter but incredibly well

read, incredibly intelligent and the jokes just kept coming. so we were talking about sex, death, mortality, and she just made me laugh. >> the things in this enter voorks a lot of things jump out but one thing that jumped out at everybody was this issue about the white house. that she had an issue in that her husband had died and she was trying to get his body out of philadelphia. >> that's right. >> and she couldn't. and you write here, it says let me see, what can i do. and she called the white house, of all places, to try to get ahold of nancy reagan. >> that's right. she and nancy reagan were very close friends. she spoke with her, i think they were having lunch just after we were going to have lunch. so edgar committed suicide in 1987. a terrible tragedy. it kind of keys into joan's career kind of plunge at that particular moment because she had had her show which had gone disastrously wrong. edgar committed suicide. joan can't get the body out of

philadelphia. joan's solution to this is to call nancy reagan. >> in the middle of the night. >> in the middle of the night at 2:00 a.m. as you can see, i'm sorry, what are you talking about? she said i did. and nancy reagan intervened and edgar's body was released. >> what does that say about her, her influence, her friends, quite frankly, and just her level of comfort. i mean i was just saying to you here i won't even call my parents at 2:00 a.m. in the morning and she was okay picking up the phone and calling the white house, saying this is joan. >> what it does say is that her friendships were incredibly close and intense and i've had a lot of people say to me that she was mean, she was rude. and certainly some of her jokes might have seemed like that. joan never felt that. in the interview she always said, no, i always felt like i was telling the truth. that was her way of putting it. that says to me the nancy reagan thing is that her friendships were everything to her. i mean her relationship with melissa, when we talked about mortality in the interview, she said she thought about mortality

constantly, but the thing that she felt was she wouldn't want to be revived unless she could do an hour of stand-up. that was the joking side of it. the serious side of it was that melissa and her had fallen out after edgar's suicide and become estranged but obviously they had become very, very, very, very close as the years went on. she said that her death would devastate melissa. the thing she couldn't bear about dying was leaving melissa and cooper, her much loved grandson. >> and we have that part of the interview as well. i think it's going to be very difficult when i die, very hard for her. she said she has me and i have her. who else did she confide in? who else was close to joan rivers? this relationship is certainly one even publicly people realize how special it was, but who else did she turn to, confide in and have as that confidant. >> it was very interesting, but at lunchtime she had a very small team with her. they were promoting a book she just published in the summer and

they were obviously going around from engagement to engagement. and we sat down. and what i found very interesting, her public relations lady, judy katz, was with her and hair dresser and makeup artist. they obviously sat away from us. now, we were sitting down like we are now but joan's first thought. she said hello and was very polite. and then she said is everyone all right? can you please get those guys some food. we've been on our feet literally all day. this was for no one else's benefit than her own team's. you could tell whoever was in her life and whoever was very close to her, they were relationships and bonds that stayed, do you know what i mean? and i know what people think about her public image. but i think off camera, i saw -- i went to her apartment once. this is a person whose library was full of political and historical biographies. she was a serious reader. she had a filing system for all her jokes. she wrote those jokes as you

would have one for your papers and it was a most astonishing system. >> folks, this is really interesting stuff and again we know those harsh jokes and know her talking about people on red carpets and you think this is a mean person, a nasty person, but it gives a lot more insight into joan rivers. it's posted on the daily beast. again, her last wide-ranging interview that she did and it's up and posted. we appreciate you coming in and sharing that with us. again, a programming note as well. you can catch an msnbc special tonight "celebrating joan rivers" tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern time right here on msnbc. i'm randy and i quit smoking with chantix. for 33 years i chose to keep smoking... ...because it was easier to smoke than it was to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced the urge for me to smoke. it actually caught me by surprise. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these,

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when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. well, the white house says the president will wait until at least after the november midterm elections to announce any possible executive action on immigration reform. today's announcement signals a reversal to the president's earlier promise to react to immigration by the end of the summer. immigration reform advocates are

slamming the delay calling it a slap in the face of the latino community. >> give you a look at some other stories making headlines right now. the third american ebola patient to be flown back to the u.s. is now under the care of doctors at a nebraska medical center. dr. rick sacra is being treated in a special isolation unit and is in stable condition. he became infected with the ebola virus while working at a hospital in liberia. jamaica, the authorities there and the u.s. coast guard have resumed the search for the small plane that crashed into the ocean with two people on board yesterday. the pilot of the plane apparently lost consciousness midflight and was seen slumped over the controls by jet fighter pilots before the plane went down off jamaica's north coast. and the department of justice has released two memos dating back to the bush administration that were used to justify warrantless wire tapping after 9/11. the memos make the case that the president has constitutional power to monitor the communications of americans

during time of war. aclu calls the contents, quote, deeply disturbing. the justice department taking an in-depth look at the practices of the ferguson, missouri, police department. attorney general eric holder says that the doj will examine allegations of excessive force, mistreatment of prisoners and whether officers routinely engaged in racial profiling. >> i had the chance to speak with a number of local residents. i heard from them directly about the deep mistrust that has taken hold between law enforcement officials and members of that community. people consistently expressed concerns stemming from specific alleged incidents and the lack of diversity. >> it will cover the period before last month's shooting of unarmed teenager michael brown. the fbi is currently investigating the events surrounding that program. lisa bloom, "today" show legal

analyst, also author of "suspicion nation" who usually i have to talk to on the other side of the country but she's here in studio with me now. it is good to see you here. >> thank you. >> what can the doj actually do to the ferguson police department? >> well, they can do a lot. they have a lot of power of oversight to do a civil rights investigation, which i think is long overdue. i'm glad they're doing it, but they're so reactive rather than proactive. why did it take the death of mike brown. why did it take the community in the streets night after night. why did it take the national media converging on ferguson. the community of ferguson has been complaining about these issues for many years and it's not unique to ferguson. apparently in st. louis county there are about 80 towns and many of them have similar complaints of a real racial imbalance in the police. >> what triggers it? we have 53 members of our police force and only three are black. that doesn't necessarily trigger an investigation. you have complaints from the community that 67%

african-american. does that necessarily trigger an investigation? what is it now, is it just because we saw the pictures on tv? >> well, those are the kinds of arguments that would be made in favor of the police. you can take one fact, pull it out and say that alone isn't enough. but when you put all of them together, and especially the disproportionate policing, really policing seems to be on the backs of the poor, not only in ferguson and st. louis county but quite frankly across the country. the criminal justice system is focused on the poor. what we have instead are people being constantly harassed, ticketed, fined, jailed, for relatively minor stuff, including not paying court fines, not paying court fees and they go to jail. this is our criminal justice system today. it's disproportionately affecting people of color. it is appropriate to have a civil rights investigation. >> here is the reaction from the ferguson police chief about the doj probe. >> i take no personal offense to it at all. in the end, the justice

department is going to try to improve the quality of policing nationwide. that's their job, part of their job. so i welcome that. anything that we can do here to improve what we're doing is good. >> he says he welcomes it. what can the doj, what are the real steps we can see them take. can they put a monitor in place? can they force them to hire more minorities on that police force? what can they force them to do. >> they can force them to comply with the law. are they discriminating in hiring. are african-americans applying for the police job and not getting it? are the criteria for the job racially discriminatory in outcome. if so, they can force a change in that. we don't know of the right now what they're doing is an investigation. it's not appropriate to jump to any conclusions but it's appropriate to get in there and examine all the facts. having said that, i can tell you i just came from speaking at an event in harlem with a lot of community leaders. a lot of them were saying the doj comes in to calm everything

down, they announce a investigation, a year passes and then they close that investigation. i hope that's not the case here. i hope there are real results. >> but there will be a lot of eyes on this case. >> i hope so. >> but they have investigated at least 20 police departments out there. at least under attorney general holder they have actually investigated 20 police departments out there. does that send a message at least to other police departments that, you know, before they come after us, can that at least be, you know, send a message out there. >> i don't know how afraid police departments are of an investigation really. what does that do? does anybody get fired? does anybody get fined? does it have a personal effect on anyone? in my book i talk about some real solutions to racial profiling by police. there are pilot programs where police officers are looked to look for implicit bias. they're trained to look at video scenarios and look at are you disproportionately focusing on people of color and if so how can you change that behavior.

that's a harder issue to drill down on. frankly most people in america say i'm not racist. they don't want to think that they are. but they still harbor implicit biases. when they're made aware of them, they can change them. i don't know if that's something the department of justice is going to do. i hope that they do. >> lisa bloom, i could just sit here and talk to you all day. it is so good to see you and have you here in new york. >> it's an absolute pleasure. any time. >> we will be talking again real soon. of course she's an legal analyst, and clearly i'm a fan. we're 36 minutes past the hour. coming up, president obama had a busy, busy week, as you can imagine. we've been telling you about the news that the president has now made on immigration reform is going to be delayed. but no delay in taking on the fight with isis. his decision is being backed by nine other countries. we'll examine the political implications of the president's decision to have a coalition go after isis.

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president obama made it clear after consulting with nato allies yesterday that the u.s. will not back away from a confrontation with isis militants fighting in iraq. take a listen. >> nato allies and partners are prepared to join in a broad international effort to combat the threat posed by isil. nato has agreed to play a role in providing security and humanitarian assistance to those who are on the front lines. >> nine other nations have joined the u.s. to create a coalition to combat the threat. let's bring in lawrence core, senior fellow at the senior for american progress and former undersecretary of defense under president reagan. janine socaria and jonathan alter in studio with me. also author of "the center holds, obama and his enemies." let me start with you. in looking at each situation and making a cost benefit analysis before acting, obama has avoided

making costly mistakes and doing the stupid stuff his predecessors did. that was that was an issue of maybe a little restraint. do you think the president is still showing some of that restraint and avoiding some of that stupid stuff still? >> yeah, i think he is by not rushing into syria. some would have him do it by ourself. getting a coalition together because all of the countries on that list are much more threatened by isis than we are, to the extent they are foreign fighters. a very small number come from the united states. to the extent that they control territory in the region, kind of the narrative for the sunni world, those are the countries, saudi arabia, uae and turkey are much more affected. so it is important that while we take the leadership role, they come with us. we take our time rather than rushing in before we know what we're going to do when we get there. >> janine, what does the coalition get us? >> i don't think that it's much

more than a symbolic hug for president obama. it plays to his instincts that he wants to do things in a collaborative fashion. he doesn't want to be the world's policeman. he doesn't want this to be solely a u.s. responsibility. by having the nato summit and nato allies go along with him, that makes him feel better but the key question is the extent to which the turks are going to be involved. is the president, for example, going to be willing to sanction people in qatar, saudi arabia, even turkish businessmen funneling money to isis. what about iran, are we going to work with the iranians who have the real power over there. >> she's saying it's typical obama. she got a big hug there, if you will, in her words. is that how you saw it as well? this was a necessary step, or was this a necessary strategic step or political step? >> well, it was necessary, but what's not clear is whether it was sufficient. so we haven't mentioned syria. you know, there are big decisions to be made about how to go after isis in syria. there are big questions about

the effectiveness of air power, whether it is unilateral or multi lateral. there's a long history going back even to world war ii of a lot of bombing doing not very much good. you have to have some people on the ground. now, it's very clear that the president does not want american boots on the ground. a lot of these other countries don't want their people on the ground. so some of this will come down to whether the peshmerga, the kurds and others who are in the region will be able to provide some of the guidance from the ground that is necessary to make those air strikes effective. and when we get a little further down the road, and this is going to be a long process, we'll have a better sense of whether these efforts to combat isis are effective or not. >> lawrence, how do you see the efforts working out right now, and also what did you make of this week the president giving at least a lot of folks a lot more clarity than we did have in the past week in which he got a

lot of criticism for, of course that phrase having no strategy, but then he came out and repeated terms about degrading and destroying isis. is he on message and are things clear? have they been cleared up in your opinion now? >> well, they have. it was a rather unfortunate choice of words. whaer what he should have said is we don't have a plan as to what's next but i think he's doing this exactly the right way. in iraq he said, okay, he rescued the yezidis from mt. sinjar and then of course the shias in am amerli but basicalle said the iraqis have to get a new government, it has to be inclusive and they have got to take the lead in fighting. we're not going to send american divisions. we already have a thousand troops there. and in syria, you're going to need a partner on the ground. you know, it was mentioned about iran. we're already working with iran in iraq. i mean and to pretend we're not

is foolish. and in the same way as we found going back to world war ii, sometimes you have to work with some horrible characters in order to achieve your objectives. the real question is in syria, is the free syrian army going to be able to step up? will we have time? or if we go in, will we be in effect aiding assad? and i think that's the real challenge for them. >> to that point, i'm going to let you answer. >> i was fascinated by larry bringing up world war ii. before world war ii the united states and the soviet union were at real odds and stalin was committing all sorts of horrible crimes. really worse crimes you could argue even in terms of how many people were killed than assad. hundreds and hundreds of thousands of russians, and in other parts of the soviet union were killed before world war ii.

then the war starts. naziism arises. and we become allies of the soviet union. suddenly he goes from joe stalin, butcher, to uncle joe and we're sending all kinds of supplies and they actually -- it's their force of arms that do the large share of winning world war ii. so why do i bring all of this up? the question is really on the table, are we now going to have some sort of, not alliance, but some sort of arrangement with assad in syria, who we have declared as a major enemy over the last three years, who we have called for regime change in syria, are we now going to essentially be on the same side of him -- with him when it comes to fighting isis. >> janine, i've been hearing a lot that's almost unavoidable. if you're going to take out assad, you just heard lawrence say you've got to have a partner on the ground. well, is he going to be the guy? >> well, it's clear the president hasn't decided yet. he did say yesterday during the

nato summit in his remarks that the free syrian army needs -- he acknowledged perhaps the u.s. should have been aiding them more. i think he wants to divide it into three, assad, the free syrian army that we're allied with and isis. and as you mentioned, it's implicit that it would help him so i think that's the main challenge they're going to face in the coming weeks. he's got to make a decision quickly. it's good to be deliberate and thoughtful and collaborative but he's got to bring a certain sense of urgency to this isis problem that i don't think he's conveyed to the american people adequately. >> lawrence, let me let you in and wrap on what you just said because you said you believe the president has handled this the right way and janine is saying there's a lack of urgency. do you feel that urgency is even necessary, lawrence, in the message that the president is giving publicly? >> no, i don't think so. i mean basically in terms of stopping their momentum in iraq was important both militarily and psychologically in terms of

people thinking that isis is the future and then getting an international coalition together and firing out who's going to help you on the ground in syria i think is the right way to do and there's no rush. i think obama acts just like the first president bush. it took him five months after saddam invaded kuwait before he went in. he got a coalition of countries, including syria that was on our side as well as iran in the first gulf war and so that's the way you have to do it. and the first president bush said you can't have all encompassing solutions to these complex problems, and i think that's what people wanting but that's not how the world is. and you're not going to get rid of isis militarily. okay. you can't bomb them out of existence, you have to have the sunni countries recognize that that's not the future. >> great group today. lawrence, janine and jonathan alter here in studio with me.

i wish i had more time with you guys. i really appreciate having these three minds with me here today. you all enjoy the rest of your weekend. about 12 minutes till the top of the hour. a teenage rite of passage, getting your driver's license, right? for one kid in south carolina, it's led to a lawsuit over the picture on his license. i'm talking to him and his mom, next. (vo) ours is a world of passengers. the red-eyes. (daughter) i'm really tired. (vo) the transfers. well, that's kid number three. (vo) the co-pilots. all sitting... ...trusting... ...waiting... ...for a safe arrival. introducing the all-new subaru legacy. designed to help the driver in you... ...care for the passenger in them. the subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru.

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it's something most 16-year-olds look forward to, getting a driver's license. chase cullpepper identifies as gender nonconforming and frequently wears make up and clothing that would be deemed women's clothing. the dmv told him in order to get a license he'd have to remove his make up. he did. this is the result. a subtle difference but it was big enough to cause quite a rift. they are now suing the state dmv

and they say all they want is a new photo. chase joins us along with his mom. you just want to take another picture and would this be over? >> yes. all i'm asking for here is to have a license photo retaken. >> why is it so important for you? we saw the two pictures. they're very subtle differences if you look at the pictures. why is it important to take it with the make up on? >> because when i wear make up it's an expression of who i am and how i choose to live my life. by asking me to not wear make up in my license photo is asking me to not be myself. >> beth parks, who is with the south carolina dmv said i understand that chase does wear make up all the time and for

women regular make up is acceptable but it's unusual to see it on a young man. we did invite the dmv. they said they don't comment on pending lawsuits so we prefer not to participate. what was your reaction? and what's your reaction to that quote saying this is unusual for a young man? >> i was saddened an heartbroken that they were telling my son he needed to conform to their idea of what a boy should look like on his own license. i felt like his way to express who he is was being degraded. he was being humiliated in the lobby. he was being told you need to do this in order to do this. it was very disheartening to see him go through that. i'm very proud of how he's handled it. he said this is who i am. i'd like to license to reflect this. >> either one of you can answer

this. when did this come about? you're still a 16-year-old now but at what point in chase's life did this become who you are? was this gender nonconforming the way you wanted to be the rest of your life? >> it's been about two years. as you said he's just 16. he's still evolving and still growing and all. even the permit that was issued a year ago has him wearing make up an mascara. that was no issue. >> the other thing, is there any part of you that does understand rule whence it comes to id and maybe we all need to understand and change and maybe it's folks in not used to seeing gender nonconforming. you're a young man an young men don't usually wear make up and

what they would deem a costume, i think is the way some of them put it. >> i understand rules and regulations, but however, in this case, all i'm asking for is to be able to go in and have my license photo taken accurately reflect who i am and how i look. i believe that's a right that everyone has. >> by changing his appearance that was a disguise. this is who he is 24/7 every day. >> if they just let you take the picture, will the lawsuit be dropped? >> we would leave that one up to our attorneys to handle that but we would like to see this resolved and to be made a point that this will not happen to

anyone else. >> thank you both. i'm going to make sure we follow up to see what happens. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> that's our show for today. appreciate you being here with us on this saturday afternoon. see you soon. ve. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed! phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. great. this is the last thing i need.) seriously? the last thing you need is some guy giving you a new catalytic converter when all you got is a loose gas cap. what? it is that simple sometimes. thanks. now let's take this puppy over to midas and get you some of the good 'ol midas touch. hey you know what? i'll drive! and i have no feet... i really didn't think this through. trust the midas touch. for brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling)

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