do the one thing you want to do. sleep. add breathe right to your cold medicine. shut your mouth and sleep right. breathe right. fire, a very large fire has broken out among the compound buildings. the branch davidian compound. >> april 19th, 1993. a violent standoff between a radical religious sect and the federal government comes to a fiery end. >> we live together or die together, that was my attitude.

>> all eyes are on david koresh, the group's prophet. the government portrays him as a dangerous cult leader. >> all he is is a cheap thug who interprets the bible through the barrel of a gun. >> if you don't follow the truth, you're going to hell! >> but to his followers, he is the final messenger. >> every time we rebelled against vernon, we were rebellinging against god. >> nearly two decades after the blaze, questions about what really happened at waco remain. >> the team believes this fire was intentionally set by persons inside the compound. >> i don't believe that anyone inside set that fire. >> with rare footage -- >> you point guns in the directions of my wives, my kids, damn it, i'll meet you at the door any time. >> and firms hand accounts from

inside the compound and from behind tactical lines. eyewitnesss to waco describe how koresh rose to power and how his kingdom was ultimately destroyed. >> there's a special place in hell for david koresh. ♪ this is "nbc nightly news" reported by garrett utley. >> good evening, it happened outside waco, texas. a heavily armed compound, a religious cult. their leader claiming to be jesus christ.

>> on a clear winter morning in waco, texas, agents from the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms attempt to execute a raid on the mt. carmel property of a religious group calling themselves the branch davidians. >> the overall goal of this raid was to serve a search warrant and to arrest david koresh and other members of the branch davidians who we had established evidence should be tried for buying and stockpiling firearms and they were converting weapons to machine guns. >> it's supposed to be a routine raid. but what actually happens is nothing short of disastrous. the branch davidians claim atf agents shoot first and without warning.

but the atf tells a different story. >> agents who were there said, this is the first place i've ever been where bullets came from everywhere. >> it's been portrayed like we attacked the atf. you know, we didn't go gunning for them, they went gunning for us. that's just the bottom line. >> here we had a gun battle erupt at roughly 9:45. i got there a little after 11:00 and it was still raging. people were still dying. the average length of a gun battle in law enforcement, to this day, is about two seconds, seconds. we knew that we were up against a very difficult, committed, and manipulative individual. >> that standoff in texas involving a cult leader. >> that religious cult in texas.

>> i think all the three major covers, these close-up shots of the cult leader with the hair and the fire behind him and looking kind of crazy eyed. and then captions like the sinful messiah or death cult and it fed all the fears that we have a charles manson type character that god knows could break loose and be planning what kind of havoc upon us. of course, there was no knowledge or understanding among the more general public about who these people really were. >> the majority of the people out there will be seeing this interview or heard anything about waco will have a negative connotation about it because you all in the press have done very well.

you've taken the prif you haers you've wanted and that's all that's been out there. >> was david koresh a cult leader determined to lead his followers to an apocalyptic war? >> he thought he was the lamb of god, the messiah, the king, and that he could take anything in the name of god and that he could do anything in the name of god. >> or is there a story about waco that hasn't been told? >> the dominant image of waco in everybody's mind is child molesting, sex maniac david koresh. who stored a bunch of arms and ended up committing suicide. >> the way waco should be remembered is to have a full understanding of both sides, the branch davidians and who they were, the government and how it operated and why the clash between the two led to this disaster.

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how do you prove to someone that he is not jesus christ incarnate? the fbi said that is the challenge it faces in dealing with cult leader david koresh. >> we are required to prove that david is not christ. which is an impossible task. >> the future leader of the branch davidians is born vernon wayne howell. on august 17th, 1959. >> vernon howell, or david koresh, that's who we know, was a pretty typical texas redneck kid, maybe from a bit more troubled family. his biological father abandoned him when he was very young, and

his mother remarried quickly in a marriage that didn't last long. and then remarried again. david was a poor student in school, and they put him in a program for children with learning disabilities. >> howell struggles to fit in and home and at school. he describes a lonely childhood. >> i always saw things differently from other people. no one understood me. reading and writing was like a foreign language to me. plain and simple. my family life was no fun

either. at my birthday party, my mom beat me black and blue in front of everybody. >> so he grew up in a very unstable situation as a small child. but the one continual influence in his life was the seventh day adventist church. >> the seventh day adventist movement is from the 19th century. it's, i think, most characterized by its name of adventist. the idea of advent of christ, usually called the second coming. the return of christ. so it's a group that began to believe that the end of time was very near. >> howell is fascinated by the new testament and its promise of a judgment day. he describes in his own words

his first conversation with god. >> i was fascinated by the scriptures and even the hokey evangelists i heard on the radio. i learned huge swatches of scripture by heart and bored other kids at school with bible lectures. i knew that the great book was a puzzle of the truth i just had to decode in my very own way. >> how long will you simple ones love your simple ways? >> i prayed, dear father, i know i'm stupid, but please talk to me because i want to serve you. a while later, i heard his word in my heart. as if we were discussing things directly.

>> vernon howell is a restless soul. he seems to have this photographic memory, at least when it comes to reading the bible. he's not so great in school, but he knows the bible seemingly by memory. >> howell drops out of high school in the 11th grade. but remains active in his church. then, at the age of 18, temptation tests his faith. >> vernon hung out with high school students after he had dropped out. met a young lady who asked him for a ride home. she invited him into her bedroom. and i think his words were, and i fell into it.

>> she had the beauty to make good men fall. i was shy. still a virgin. kind of straight laced on account of my church life. but you know how humanity is. i was intending to marry her, but she turned her back, rejected me. i had forgotten my purpose in life. to be true to his word. god said he would give my first love back to me in time, but he never did. i lost contact with her. and our child, my first born.

i had to find my way back to my first faith. i knew it was waiting for me, out there, somewhere. >> vernon had been through a lot of things by his age, and because women weren't working for him, his life was not working for him overall, and certainly no one wanted to marry him, he just was a failure. >> i think he basically had no confidence in his own ability to direct his life. and he had a dream about this voice that said, there is something more you have to learn. so this was like an illustration to him from god that god was using these things to teach him hard lessons in life. it was right after this time that he came to mt. carmel. >> he was looking for a prophet.

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i was there from the beginning of my life, i was born into it, i was there long before vernon was ever known. >> i was basically from the age of 5 raised as a branch davidian. unlike my wife, deborah, i was raised in california. so when i graduated high school, i ended up moving to mt. carmel where i met my wife, and that's when i first started living with the group. the full name is branch davidian seventh day adventist. adventist meaning they believe in the second coming of christ. this all comes down to the book of revelation, which is pretty clear there is going to be a final end, the final judgment. so, yeah, it was important stuff for david koresh. >> heartbroken and confused, vernon howell makes his way to

mt. carmel in search of a living prophet. he finds the branch davidian leader, nearly 70-year-old lois roden. >> lois roden was a very lonely woman and vernon really needed the guidance and somebody to care about him all of the time. and she just latched onto that. >> the elderly leader is impressed by howell's knowledge of the bible. she takes him under her wing and invites him to live at the compound. in time, the two become romantically involved, compelling roden to let her young lover preach to the sect. >> when he was allowed by lois roden to start giving studies to the branch davidians, his demeanor changed. >> every sin that isaiah says i'm guilty of, i agree, i'm perfect to give you this message. i have been chosen of god, and

god says his word is what i will be. >> he could give a testimony say yeah, i used to be this messed up guy and i got this girl pregnant. what a horrible thing i did. but look at me now. you know, i'm together and i've got this message and i'm going to make things right and we're going to get to the kingdom of god. >> do you understand, it's war. these governments of this world are coming to an end. the minds of men are going to be focused on a fact. go ahead and laugh. go ahead and muse in your minds, and see what happens to you. fools. >> he was saying things that made sense to me. he was a fresh, new face with new ideas and he seemed to have the message that the branch davidian needed at the time. >> soon, howell announces he too

is a living prophet. he claims god wants him to take a wife within the sect. he chooses 14-year-old rachel jones. >> he went to perry jones and he told perry that, you know, i need rachel to come with me, and i need you to give your daughter to me in marriage. and perry being a devout follower that he was, woke his daughter up in the middle of the night and told her, you're going to go with vernon and you do whatever he tells you to do. he's going to be your husband now. she went and got in the van with vernon. rachel and vernon left the property together. rachel said that vernon told her, quote "you're going to marry me tonight."

she went to sleep. she woke up. and he was making his presence known as her husband. they actually did it the legal route. in texas, because she was only 14, of course perry had to go and sign for it. lois roden was just in shock. she was very much a jilted woman, because the man that she believed to be her husband went out and married another woman. and not just another woman, but one that was 14. >> with lois roden's power over the group in question, howell attempts to take over as the branch davidian's prophet. but roden's son, george, stands in the way. >> i grew up being told that george roden would one day take over.

and the problem was, george had mental issues, and he was just too unstable to be the prophet. >> battle for control over mt. carmel divides the once unified branch davidians. the rodens claim the land at mt. carmel for their followers, forcing howell and several of his converts to relocate to a small plot of land in palestine, texas. >> this is david. >> hello, everybody. in australia. >> over the next three years, howell travels to california, the united kingdom, and australia to recruit new followers with his apocalyptic message. >> this is the way we eat over here in america. and you need to come over and

join us. we have literal food and spiritual food. >> he taught that it was time for a change in regime, and he made everyone believe very passionately that this really is the end. he's bringing the last message, and now is the time to act, be passionate, be a soldier for god. >> he did think he was a second messiah, a kind of a second christ. >> if you don't follow the truth, you're going to hell! my name is jenny, and i quit smoking with chantix. before chantix, i tried to quit... probably about five times. it was different than the other times i tried to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. that helped me quit smoking. some people had changes in behavior,

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. u.s. today expanded air strikes into iraq against islamic state militants. meanwhile, president obama says he will address the nation on wednesday about u.s. military action against isis. the president told chuck todd on

nbc's "meet the press" that he will explain america's mission ahead. a nebraska, doctors treating an worker for ebola say he is improving. more alert and talkative but he is still not out of the woods. by spring of 1984, howell and his followers are living in a camp nearly 90 miles from mt. carmel. >> we were living in tents, and buses, and there was no running water. there was no electricity. you only ate when the community ate, what the community ate. it was very rough living.

it's cold. you don't have this, you don't have that, and at the same time, ooh, it must be the end of times. it's exciting. why else would we be live thing bizarre? >> when you live in a group that believes in the coming end and the final judgment, it's something that you're expecting to be very soon. it could be literally any day. >> howell's end of days prediction is nothing new to the apocalyptic group. but following a pilgrimage to industrial in 1985, he delivers a more shocking message. he proclaims himself a second messiah, chosen to open the seven seals of the book of revelation. >> i was in jerusalem and over there i had an experience. in this experience, i was given the responsibility to teach people the prophecies. >> among the visions in the book of revelation, this talk of a lamb holding a book with seven

seals on it which only this lamb can open and understand. vernon howell began to open those seals, meaning to claim understanding of what these passages of revelation said. which meant that he was beginning to claim that he was the lamb of god. >> a messenger of the covenant, who is to bring god's people a spirit of grace and truth. >> he didn't tell you he was the lamb of god or that he was a new prophet or the seventh angel or any of these other things. he would merely ask you questions. >> this must be interpreted to get its full meaning, right? and who has the right to interpret it? >> he did think he was a

messiah, a second messiah, a kind of a second christ. but he didn't think he was jesus christ. >> this message is going to do one or two things to you. it's going to bring out the best in you or the worst in you. >> he changes his name to david koresh after the '85 israel experience. he gets the last name koresh from the bible. it's actually the hebrew word for cyrus, and cyrus is this persian king who, in the bible, is actually called a messiah. and the david part is just that the messiah has to be a descendant of king david. >> during this time, koresh announces he's entitled to more than one wife within the group. soon he has four. including david bund's 17-year-old sister, robin. >> he talked about the house of david, how he's supposed to have

all these wives. so the idea was, you know, this appears to be of god. and it technically was illegal. but when you're in a cult and you've got -- answering to a higher power, you don't worry about the law so much sometimes. >> koresh learns that his former mentor, lois roden, is dead. and her son, george, is in a state psychiatric hospital. with the property up for grabs, he takes back mt. carmel and continues to recruit around the world. >> he drew people from england, australia and from the west indies as well as americans. it was a multiracial and multiethnic setting. >> why did you come here? >> because i heard there was something here that i wanted to listen to. >> what do you think of david? >> i think he's great. >> how old are you?

>> i'm 16. >> do you think he's the son of god? >> yes. >> as his following grows, koresh begins to use fear to retain his hold on the branch davidians. >> what has god spoken? follow the vision! he's got a book. he gives the book to the lamb. get it in your mind! that's what he says! you stupid idiots! get it in your minds! he says his heart has declared a kingdom. if you don't follow the truth, you're going to hell! >> apocalyptic cult leaders recognize by predicting the end

of the world as eminent, they have people constantly on edge. wanting to be absolutely obedient to the leader and to the -- and to the rules of the group because they feel that if they are not, when the end comes, they will be judged. and they will be judged harshly. >> psalm 90, you better start fearing god because he's going to burn you in hell. >> former branch davidian david thibodaux recalls a different side of koresh. >> at the time that i met david i was living in hollywood. i just graduated from music school. i was working on several dead-end jobs and just really not enjoying that very much. i remember as a kid i used to watch the tv preachers on tv and just think, that's absolutely ridiculous most of the things they're saying. none of this made sense to me at all.

>> imagine a teacher that taught the bible like he lived it instead of like he just read it. that's exactly what it was like. one of david's purposes were to weed out those who were serious or not. we weren't there to be comfortable, we were there to learn the truth. i believe that david thought that he was an inspired person and believed he could teach the seven seals. so it became very clear that this guy's got something. it's not that he didn't give you a room for debate, because he did. but there was no room for debate in your own mind. he was the leader. david koresh was the most complex and brilliant individual i'd ever met. some people say there's a fine line between brilliance and insanity. and some people have called him

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♪ please, please, please, won't you listen ♪ ♪ it's not what it appears to be ♪ >> by the late '80s, the number of branch davidians at mt. carmel swells to over 100, under the leadership of its self-proclaimed prophet david koresh. ♪ there's a madman living in waco ♪ >> you look at people today that have everything and they're still not happy, there's something missing. we didn't have the something missing. we didn't have the everything, but god, it was so much more special, you know. we had a purpose. we had a reason to get up every day. >> but other followers, like debbie bund, paint a darker picture of life inside mt. caramel. >> he would change the rules on a daily basis. he would eat when he wouldn't let other people eat.

he would eat on holy days when we were supposed to fast. and the reason he could do all of these things is because god told him to. >> and no one could refuse the lamb anything. not single malt scotch. not ice cream. not sex. whatever he wanted, he had to have it because that was god's way. >> in a way, your brain goes numb. you not only don't have to think for yourself, you're highly discouraged from thinking for yourself. while you may have rebellious moments and it's upsetting, you get mad, you're like, i'm hungry, i'm tired, at the same time we believe that vernon had the word of god. so every time we rebelled against vernon, we were rebelling against god. >> with his grip over the group tightening, koresh introduces the new light doctrine. this new set of rules dissolves

all of the marriages on the property, and mandates that the sexes live separately. >> from the outside, i think any of us hearing it would have to say that it's the craziest, most bizarre thing in the world. but it gets worse. all those women are potentially now mates of david koresh. they're his wives. because the messiah is going to have these many wives. and they're going to have children. >> there would be 24 of these children. and he found that in the book of revelation. there's a group of 24 elders that will be the pillars of the new kingdom. these children of david koresh were the most precious central focus of the group. it's absolutely the most difficult thing to believe. but as he presented it, as they

believed it, it was that it was for this most, most, most holy purpose. >> david koresh's ability to manipulate scripture was phenomenal. i can remember working with one waco davidian and i asked this davidian how can he rationalize having sex with any woman or child in the compound? and he quoted me a scripture, a verse that was in psalms about the head of the king being anointed with oil. according to the davidians, though, david koresh's head that needed to be anointed was the head of his penis and it was anointed by the excretion of women in orgasm. >> following the new light doctrine, husbands give up their wives to koresh, including his right-hand man, steven schneider around his wife, judy. >> say hello to your grandma,

grandpa. your aunt sue. >> soon, judy schneider gives birth to koresh's daughter. in this video, her legal husband, steve, works the camera. >> we will put her on. what is your name? >> my name is judy schneider koresh and this is my daughter. >> when i first came to mt. carmel and started realizing that a lot of the children were fathered by david, i think if i had someone i really cared about going into it, i don't know if i would have stayed. i was in the unique position where i was a single guy and to me, going through the experience and staying with my conviction was worth it. more than one wife is acceptable in the scripture. as long as you can take care of them. his kids, in essence, were

special. in the essence, you know, they were his children and part of, you know, one of the seals was him actually having children for god. the mothers really wanted them being raised as close to pure scriptural life as possible. it made me wonder, how does he do it? how can he be in control of the situation to that extent? i have a different perspective now, obviously, than i did then. and the perspective now is david koresh definitely broke the law when it comes to having sex with underaged girls. >> the local authorities investigated this, and their problem was, they couldn't find a complainant, meaning before you can arrest somebody, you

have to have somebody who says a crime was committed. and nobody saw what david was doing as a crime. the young women felt it was a great privilege and the parents thought this was a great honor being bestowed upon their daughters and if you're a hard core mt. carmel bible student, you're not worried about man's law, you're worried about eternity. that's god's law. >> ult may ult may will be, when it came down to it, he wanted lots and lots of young girls. he got to where he got very touchy-feely with me. he wanted to stroke my hair and smell it. did it in front of my husband once. he goes, you are going to be my wife now. i said, no, that's not going to happen. he says oh, yes, it is going to happen. god told me it's going to happen. he said it's already planned out. he said i have a hotel room for us tonight. and i said, you know what? i'm not as strong as you. i said, but if you take me, it

will be by force, it will be rape. and i said i will put you in jail for it. so he tells me in no uncertain terms, you will be sorry. you will not speak of this again. do you understand me? >> according to debbie, this rejection embarrasses koresh. within months, he kicks her and her husband david off of the mt. carmel property and out of the branch davidian fold. >> i left the group and my mother and sister and father were all still involved. for a while afterwards, a few years. my mother actually told me he was god. >> eventually david's sister, robin, leaves the group and makes this chilling prediction. >> he has more of a charles manson mentality, and i do see him as eventually becoming very violent if he's pushed in a corner.

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god has already wrapped up in his right hand a book sealed with -- >> the seven seals. >> by the early 1990s, the branch davidians are living in relative peace at the mt. carmel property. but a more violent side to the group is about to be revealed. >> i was the chief of the public affairs branch of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. we received information that they were engaged in buying and stockpiling firearms, converting weapons to machine guns. so we began an investigation and determined in fact they were doing exactly that. people do, in fact, have a right to bear arms. that's not the business of atf. we have no issue with that.

however, there are laws. to take a semi automatic weapon and convert it to be a machine gun, or just to assemble a machine gun from scratch, you have to have the prior permission of the united states government. >> david koresh and the group at mt. carmel did increasingly believe, as the years went by, that at the end of time, they would be called upon to fight on the side of righteousness. and they read the bible fairly literally. >> there will be no excuse. >> i never saw any sign of the illegal weapons. him and the other guys started buying weapons at gun shows legally and kept sheets on all the firearms that they had. >> at first it started off as a business. but then when i think he found

out he was being investigated it became a very defensive thing. if they come and attack us, we're going to fight back. in the seven seals, you start to understand we are setting up the kingdom of god to an extent and that is to be protected. we were sheep, but at the same time, we weren't going to stand up to being run over and lied about. but we were definitely the sheep of god and the sheep of god don't fear the wolves. when you believe that you're on the right path, you don't really fear anything. so there kind of was an army mentality in the sense that our group is our group, and we fear god. we don't fear what man can do to us, we fear what god can do to us. >> there were individuals in the group who i am confident that if they had been told to get a gun and go out and kill people, they

would have done it. i think vernon understood this. and i think that he cultivated a closer knit group of people around him who he felt were more loyal and more unquestioning. >> even though jesus said love your enemies and the idea of christianity is peace, if you read the book of revelation, there are armies of heaven and they fight on the side of right and lots of people get killed and the righteous forces defeat the evil forces. so he taught his followers and he himself believe that they needed to be prepared for that. >> i waited patiently for the lord. he inclined to me when he heard my cry. >> the group was transformed by koresh from a relatively benign group that really didn't see itself at all as an army, to an army of god.

that was heavily armed by david koresh purchasing, modifying and manufacturing weapons. >> in the winter of 1993, the atf puts the final touches on an affidavit that allows them to secure a warrant to search the branch davidian property for illegal firearms. but according to author dick revis, their decision to raid mt. carmel may have been a pr stunt. >> the atf had a budget hearing coming up. i believe on march the 20th. they were being sued by their black and female agents for discrimination. they didn't feel comfortable asking for more money with a record like that. so they thought, we have this compound of white, fundamentalist christian gun nuts. what greater prize could you take to a democratic congress. then we'll get some more money.

that's the suspicion. >> the idea that we would stunt for money is despicable beyond all belief. our reason for going into mt. carmel was, we had obtained the evidence to get the warrants to do it and we were feeling the concern that these people were about to erupt. we don't trade lives for appropriations. >> by the end of february, the atf is granted the search warrant for mt. carmel. preparations get under way for what should be a routine raid. >> what was supposed to happen on that saturday morning was that after their worship services, the men would leave the building and proceed to the grounds to do their chores, which would leave them separated from the armory where the weapons were stored and give us an opportunity to get on the property and get between most of them and the women and children.

but clearly the events on that saturday morning did not develop according to what we expected to develop. and at that point the operation should have been aborted. (yawn) (ding!) toaster strudel! more fruit in the filling, ya? mmm! ya! warm, flaky, gooey, toaster strudel! now, with more fruit! dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future.you.

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>> they were jihadist, they were terroristic, they were a death cult. >> when people have been so demonized, it's easy to come in and destroy them and people not to have sympathy. >> dawn breaks on a cloudy morning in late february, as the atf prepares for the raid on the branch davidian property. >> waco, texas, baby. >> what was supposed to happen is they were supposed to arrest david and any people who resisted. >> agents plan to take advantage of the element of surprise by converging on the group while the men work outside. but they never get the chance. >> they learn that the guys probably wouldn't be outside that morning because it had rained and the shelter they were digging was all mud. there was nobody outside working.

>> this is not developing the way it's supposed to develop. something's gone wrong. there are all kinds of clear signs that this was not going to happen, and they made a fatal wrong decision, which was to proceed. >> i had woken up kind of late, and david koresh came down the stairs and there was three or four of the guys with him. and they said, now, everybody, they're coming. they're on their way. don't anybody do anything stupid. we're going to go talk to them and try to work this out. >> suddenly, gunfire rips through the compound. >> they begin to exit the vehicles and they immediately come under fire from the compound. >> i wasn't at the front door so i can't say. but what i can say is that according to some of the people

that i spoke to, they all claim that the shots were coming from the outside into the building and david fired back. >> i opened the front door and they were running up in combat dress. guns aimed and everything. hollering. i fell back in the door. the bullets started coming through. i yelled "go away, there's women and children in here, let's talk." when the bullets started coming through the front door, some of the young men started firing on them. we wanted to talk it out with these people. >> i think that who shot first question is a bit of a red

herring. first off, they were uniformed, they were wearing badges, they called out that they had a search warrant. at any point someone presented them a threat to their lives or serious bodily injury, under the federal rules of engagement they're authorized and expected to use deadly force. >> we defended ourselves against a power that was coming and shooting at us. we didn't go gunning for them, they went gunning for us, and that's just the bottom line. >> 49 minutes into the botched raid, david koresh himself calls 911 and speaks with the local police. >> there is a bunch of you guys here. now that's your fault. >> okay, let's try and resolve this now. tell me this. now you have casualties. how many casualties. do you want to try to work something out. atf is pulling back. we're trying to -- >> why don't do you that first.

>> all i'm doing is having communications. i can't give you that answer, david. >> god is coming. i know it sounds crazy to you but they're going to find out sooner or later. there are seven seals. the prophecy says -- >> let me interrupt you a short minute. we can talk to you -- >> this is life and death. this is life and death. >> yes, sir. i agree with that. >> even with this 911 call and people have been firing and people have been killed, david immediately begins talking about the seven seals, and i think that, in a literal as well as a more symbolic way, tells us all about waco. the deputy wants to stop the firing and he clearly should not be expected to suddenly get a cup of coffey and get his bible out. >> a cease-fire is finally

negotiated. allowing shell shocked atf agents to remove the bodies of the dead and injured from the property. >> i was driving into atf headquarters and my cell phone rang and it was the command post. and the first question they asked is where are you, i said i'm about 10, 15 minutes at the office. and they said, stop by, please. i said, what happened? the answer was the worst. >> four agents are dead.

inside mt. carmel, five branch davidians are mortally wounded and several are injured. including david koresh. >> his blood pressure was terribly low because of the loss of blood. he refused medication, antibiotics, aspirin, anything. he said, the lord is going to decide this. >> so you can know -- >> koresh doesn't die. he treats the wound himself and makes the decision that he and his followers will remain inside the compound. >> no one is going to expect me, when they come busting in on my door with guns drawn and pointing in the air and someone fire at me that i'm going to lay down and die for anybody. it just ain't going to happen in this country. >> in just a few hours, the raid that was supposed to go off

without incident, is deemed a complete disaster. >> there was an absolute lack of plan b, and all the team leaders i've talked to would say, my only regret in my career, in my life, was that i didn't stop it. >> by the early afternoon, the atf calls in the fbi to handle negotiations. marking the beginning of what will become one of the longest standoffs in law enforcement history. >> it was a sunday morning when the phone rang and i picked it up and it was my boss, and without any preamble, without any introduction, jeff starts out by saying, byron, there's been a raid that's gone horribly wrong. get to waco as soon as you can and assist with negotiations. i jumped in the shower, asked my wife to throw some clothes in a bag, and i said, honey, this is a bad one, you better put about

three day's worth in there. >> day four of the texas standoff. >> day 16. >> 32 days. >> 46 days. >> little did we know what we were in store for.

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negotiations in the standoff between cult leader david koresh and federal authorities surrounding his compound are apparently going nowhere. >> negotiators are consulting with biblical scholars looking for any way they can to negotiate with koresh, the man who claims to be the messiah. >> hours after the failed atf raid, the fbi assumes command of negotiations with the branch davidians. almost immediately, they secure the release of some of the elderly and a handful of children.

>> we got, i believe, six or eight kids out within the first 10, 12 hours. this is a huge indicator that we're making progress. >> the fbi continues to negotiate with koresh. within hours, they strike a deal. >> he agreed to surrender and come out and face the music, so to speak, if he could just have an hour on national radio. >> we contacted the christian broadcasting network in waco, because we were trying to do anything we could to get a peaceful resolution. >> okay, here we go. we're going to the tape of david koresh. >> what do you want to talk about? >> who's the king? could it be christ? did god write a book? does god want to talk about his son according to a book? what does god think about his

son? >> he did give his speech. 58 minutes. it was an absolute disaster. definitely the average person would not understand it and even most people who didn't give it a lot of attention. >> what's funny about that is i thought the tape was one of the least impressive things i've heard david say. i'm not sure that's why that's what he released, but that's what he released. >> despite the disappointing broadcast, the fbi and the branch davidians each prepare for a mass surrender. >> when we thought we were getting out, it was an incredible feeling, like the weight of the world off your shoulders. like great, we're not going to die here. >> i believe the women were to come out first. and the men were to come out afterwards with their hands up to show that they weren't armed. so there was a procession

negotiated. >> all of a sudden, the antennas start to go up, and have i been so totally duped that this individual has lied to all of us and then david finally gets on the line and says, my god has told me to wait. how do you negotiate against god? >> what is your name? >> in an effort to gain intelligence from inside the compound, the fbi provides koresh with a video camera. what they get back is shocking. >> a question that everybody wants to know, do you want to leave, are you being held here against your will, do you -- >> hey, listen, i came here freely. i'm a free agent. i came by myself.

i paid my own way. i came and went as i pleased. >> this was such an unprecedented event, because what we had here really was not a traditional hostage situation where the bad guys come in, he seizes innocent people, he's using them for leverage. this is not what we had. we had a barricaded situation with over 100 willing participants. >> do you have a desire to leave here? >> no. nobody is holding a gun at my head making me stay. >> i have decided to stay. i don't want to go. >> so you're not being held against your will here? >> no. >> do you want to leave here? >> no, i don't. i feel quite safe here. >> i'm not held here as a hostage or anything. if any of us wants to leave, we can just go now, today. >> i'm here because i wanted to be here. >> is anyone holding you here against your will? >> only god. >> only god?

>> only god. it's his will and his will be done. >> i could have left at any time. i didn't want to. especially during the siege after being attacked, you know, it's like this is the choice i've made, this is my community and we either live together or die together. that was my attitude. >> we would constantly go back at them. david, we need to get some more kids out of there. please get them out of potential harm's way. he says, wait a minute, you don't understand, the rest of these children are my children. they're not coming out. >> his name is cyrus. come sit over here, son. how old are you? >> 7. >> say hello to everybody. >> hi. >> wave at them. >> david believed his children

had god's dna. that his children were to help judge the world. >> you know, the question is, what am i doing? what am i doing with all these children? you know, what's really going on here? these children that i have are for a reason and unless we really have the ear and the eyes to open ourself up to be able to read, really read the scriptures and understand the prophecies and the seven seals, the explanation would seem almost foolish. >> if he had sent his children out, this would have been equivalent to giving up on his theological project, which was to be christ at end of world times. it would be sending off the jury

that was going to be used to judge the world. >> this is my family and no one is going to come in and push my family around. it's just not going to happen. ain't going to happen. >> when he came up with that emphatic statement, these are my children, they are not coming out, we knew we had a major problem. and that was a clear indicator that this was not going to be a peaceful resolution. >> both sides just lost any kind of trust or faith in the other. period. it's the yoplait greek taste-off and we are asking the music city which 100-calorie strawberry greek yogurt tastes best. this one is definitely the winner. yoplait greek 100! you want to see which one yoplait greek beat? chobani yes! yoplait greek wins again. take the taste-off for yourself! she still does it the old way. i haven't told her i switched to tide pods. it's a concentrated, 3-1 detergent that gives me an amazing clean with just one pack. you already knew? i can't keep a secret in this family. that's my tide.

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hope for a break in the texas cult standoff flickers, then fades. >> members of an armed cult near waco, texas, are observing passover and continuing their standoff with federal agents. >> after days of failed negotiations with david koresh, the fbi struggles to maintain control. >> he says that he did not fulfill his promise to leave immediately with his followers because god told him to wait. >> i felt embarrassed. i felt angry. i felt let down. i felt concerned over the welfare of the people inside that compound. >> we are going through a very frustrating and disappointing period in the negotiation process. >> in my opinion, david koresh didn't come out because federal officers had been killed. he knew that he faced criminal charges. probable incarceration. and he could not stand the idea

of not being the king of kings. the ruler of group that absolutely idolized and worshipped him. >> the general mistake made by the fbi, by the press and the public was to project themselves onto koresh, to say oh, he's a human being like me, so he has the same motivations i do. that was never true. the people in mt. carmel were motivated by strange and deep religious convictions. >> in their minds, the davidians are now in a war between good and evil. what to the rest of the world looks like a standoff plays right into koresh's end of days scenario. >> david koresh had manipulated his followers to believe that the end would come. and it would come soon.

and they would face persecution. they saw this as the fulfillment of his divine revelation, of his prophecy about the end of the world. and in this confrontation with government authorities, they really felt they were living in the last days. >> while the davidians appear unshaken by the lengthy occupation. the frustration within the agency's ranks begins to show. >> we continued to negotiate and try to get as many people out as we could. but then we started becoming our own worst enemy. >> i know that as the siege wore on, the tactical people, meaning those fbi agents who were driving tanks, and manning weapons, became more and more aggressive. and that this harmed the

negotiations because as far as the people inside mt. carmel were concerned, this showed bad faith. >> they had no respect for us at all. some of the girls talk about guys on the tanks would be mooning them and giving us the finger. >> for weeks, koresh and his followers have been subjected to the steady roar of helicopters and tanks. there are flood lights, spotlights, weird sound effects and loud music over a p.a. system at night. >> do we think what we're doing is possibly giving david a headache? i would only say i would hope so. >> when a man drives over your car with a tank, you don't feel like negotiating with him. when he's mooning you, you don't feel like negotiating with him. when he's playing the sound of chickens being killed at high

volume all night at your house, it doesn't lend itself to negotiations. so i think what we can say is the longer the siege went on, the less influential the negotiators were. >> the fbi were incredibly stubborn during that and you know what? david koresh was too. i think what happened was, after a certain period of time, both sides just lost any kind of trust or faith in the other. period. and then it became a pissing contest. it really became a territorial thing and neither side was backing down. >> i believed in the fbi as a kid, but they became liars to me. they just became -- god, they fit the profile skrip turlly of

pride and arrogance to the extreme and it was absolute power run amok. and i felt sorry for them, the agents and the people that were behaving that way. >> after four long weeks with no break in the negotiations, david koresh meets with his legal counsel. >> that marathon siege in waco, texas, it might just be that the end is now just a short distance away. >> so far today, they have had two face-to-face meetings with david koresh inside the besieged branch davidian compound. the lawyer for david koresh advised us that there had been a major breakthrough and david had agreed to exit, and he would exit as soon as he had finished writing his manuscript of the meaning of the seven seals of the book of revelation. we took that kind of tongue and cheek, because by this time we had several examples of how they had promised one thing and not delivered. >> what i'm offering is very

simple. god offers it. >> he was very focused on it, to be very serious. i think it would have been his life's work. it would have been something that definitely he would have said, this is who i am. this is why we went through this. this is why we exist here. this is why i have all these kids. >> there are things god has concealed in his written word that are to be brought to view right before the end of time. >> one of the other negotiators said, you know, david, how long do you anticipate this? it's my understanding it took about 600 years to write the books of the bible. and he said oh, no, no, it will take me about two days per seal. >> just tell me this, david, are you saying that when you finish that manuscript -- >> i'll be out. yes. definitely. >> i know you'll be out, but that could mean a lot of things, david. >> i'll be in custody, sent to the jailhouse.

you can come in there and everything. i'll be splitting out of this place. i'm so sick of mres that -- >> then you know what? i'm keeping you from getting back to work. you know what i'm going do? i'm going to let you go so that you can get back to work because, frankly, i'm eagerly awaiting this manuscript. i tell you what, it is going to blow your socks off. >> if you listen to those tapes, what i call the last words of david koresh, and they are his last recorded words, he was very upbeat. he talks about he's writing the manuscript. plus i just think they wanted out. >> the fbi's intent and utmost effort was to resolve this thing peacefully. and in that effort, we failed. once there was a girl who always mixed and matched, even in her laundry room. with downy unstopables for long lasting scents, and infusions for softness,

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. president obama revealed in

an exclusive interview on "meet the press" that he plans to speak to the american people on wednesday about his plan to defeat isis forces in iraq and syria. an atlanta hawks co-owner bruce levinson is selling his controlling interest if the team over a racially offensive e-mail he wrote in 2012 where he talked about how to attract more white fans. lefb son says he reported the e-mail to the nba who was conducting an investigation. now back to "witness to waco."do the nba who was conducting an investigation. now back to "witness to waco." we have had no firm indication as to a final resolution of this matter. that, again, will only be determined by mr. koresh. >> on the evening of the 18th of april, steve schneider gets on

the phone with the negotiation team, and were continuing to press him. steve, we need something. you've told us, he's done with the first seal. send it out. >> we got nothing, absolutely nothing. >> when we briefed up the boss, and told him that we had not gotten anything tangible to prove that david was even working on this, that was it. that was the straw that broke the camel's back. by this time, the department of justice has authorized the use of tear gas and the decision was made to go forward the next day. >> in an effort to drive the davidians out, the fbi readies tanks to insert tear gas into the compound. >> i think the fbi knew that you could never take david's word for final. he had proved that.

and so it was quite reasonable for them to doubt that david would come after he wrote the explanations of the seals. on the other hand, that doesn't mean you had to ram his house with tanks. >> the morning of april 19th, the phone was ringing and ringing, and no one was getting the phone. and i remember going down the hall picking up the phone, and the negotiator said, we need to speak with steve or david right now, the siege is over. we're going to be putting tear gas into the building and approaching the building. do not fire at us or we will fire back. >> what we were trying to convey to them is, this is not intended to bring injury to you. but you need to understand that this is a nation of law, and we are now telling you that this siege is over and you're under

arrest. >> we are continuing to place tear gas into the building. do not shoot. david, you have had your 15 minutes of fame. it's time to leave the building. >> i had been through tear gas. i had been through tear gas in military training, i've been through tear gas in law enforcement training, and i will tell you that, without a doubt, if my family was inside this room, and somebody put tear gas in here, i would do everything that i possibly could to get them to a position of safety. and that's exactly what we banked on. that natural parental instinct to get your loved ones out of that kind of hostile environment. and quite frankly, we were wrong. and to a devastating end, we were wrong.

>> when you see a tank coming through your front door and shooting gas at you, you don't think there's going to be a very good response for you if you exit through the hole it just made. the tanks would be coming up to the building, and then you'd hear like glass crashing. you could hear the gas seep out from the rounds. >> we are continuing to introduce tear gas into the building. >> people were crying. some people were protesting. nothing you can really do. everyone is scared. and then i heard someone say there was a fire. and i literally just saw a wall of flame in front of me. i got as low to the floor as i

could. and i could feel like a warm spot on the side of my face and all the hair was singeing off. i looked up and the window was broken and i just instinctively went out the hole at that point. it's funny, my recollection is it's better to be shot than to burn to death. >> we are seeing this man who has come out to surrender. he's moving toward the north end of the compound. >> i can tell you without hesitation, looking you straight in the eye, that the fbi's intent and desire and utmost effort was to resolve this thing peacefully. and in that effort, we failed.

>> with camera crews from around the world rolling, mt. carmel is reduced to a smoldering pile of ashes. >> everything else is in flames. >> they didn't want him to come out. they wanted to kill him. there's not enough. there's going to be a bunch of them that's going to die right there on that farm for no reason. >> by the time the standoff happened, i had completely separated my belief system from not only vernon, but the entire branch davidians. and when i watched that fire, it was very traumatizing for me. >> fire, a very large fire, has broken out among the compound buildings. >> i kept expecting to see all

these people pouring out and i didn't see anybody. i watched all those people die on live television. so many of them that i knew, i grew up with, babies i saw born. it was just absolutely horrifying. and yet it was mixed with a, please let vernon be gone. >> according to the department of justice, 75 branch davidians die in the blaze, including 25 children under the age of 15. david thibodaux and eight others survive the fire. they are treated for their burns and promptly arrested.

>> i remember after i went through all the checkpoints and i was finally in a cell all alone, i was all right. because actually, i had an amazing amount of strengthen. i just remember thinking, you know, my friends are now all around me and always with me all the time. and that they have gone on to that next experience while i'm left to stay in this one. and it wasn't as devastating as it probably would be to people that didn't have the kind of faith that we did. >> authorities in texas say they have identified the body of cult leader david koresh pulled from the rubble of the branch davidian compound. although officials say koresh apparently died of a gunshot wound to the head, they aren't saying whether he shot himself. >> david koresh and steven schneider were found together, burned. and both of them dead of what appear to be a self-inflicted

gunshot wounds. but the ballistics don't allow anyone to decide who shot who. did each shoot himself or, as some people think, did schneider shoot koresh and then shoot himself? we don't know. >> david koresh dying as he did from gunshot wounds, that was indicative of, in my opinion, that he did not want to suffer in the fire. dying by being burned to death is a horribly painful way to die and in the end his death was easier than theirs. >> vernon was a coward, right up until the very end. because only a coward is going to burn people to death purposefully and then die easy with a bullet. ♪

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>> did you start to second guess yourself thinking perhaps this wasn't the right decision? >> do you think this was mishandled? >> i don't think it was mishandled. >> attorney general janet reno scrambles to defend her approval of the use of tanks and teargas on the davidians. >> he might have gotten fed up and executed the plan he rehearsed march 2nd by putting on explosives and coming out and blowing up fbiati agents and committing suicide himself. then you'd have me right here sitting here asking me why i hadn't moved earlier. >> with the media's glare now on the government, the fbi swiftly blames david koresh for the devastating loss of life. >> david koresh controlled those people's lives absolutely. absolutely. he's the one responsible for these deaths. >> even newly elected president bill clinton jumps in to defend the agency. >> we know that david koresh had sex with children. where i come from, that qualifies as child abuse.

>> just days after the fire, branch davidian david thibodaux places the blame for the deadly inferno squarely on the fbi. >> what was the cause of the fire? >> thanks. >> more than a decade later, he's not so sure. >> my opinion, how did the fire start? i simply don't know. i just don't know. i don't believe that anyone inside set that fire. i didn't see anybody pouring any kind of fluid or any kind of accelerant or anything like that. the accelerant that's used to disburse the cs gas in the room is flammable. i've talked to fire marshals who said that as soon as they saw the tanks go in and make those big holes, they knew that building was going to go up like a tinder box. >> but the official word from arson investigators paints a

very different picture. >> the team believes this fire was intentionally set by persons inside the compound. >> when the fire first took place, my assumption was that the tanks had started the fire. and then as more evidence came out, there are some tapes, called the bug tapes, these little listening devices put in the place. >> these tapes aren't real easy to hear, but i think there's enough that indicates talk about the davidians spreading oil, planning to possibly light the place. >> what we don't know is, was that a defensive measure or a

suicidal measure? in other words, some sort of idea that if they come in to get us, we will create a wall of fire around the camp of god and we will be caught up into heaven. now, as crazy as that sounds, there's scriptures that are in the prophets that koresh was aware of that say, i will make a wall of fire around you and save you. >> you don't kill yourself if you're a spiritual person. you can't take your own life. you can't expect salvation and squander the life you're given. and i don't believe that anyone inside set that fire. >> no, there's no plans for suicide at all. >> eight months after the blaze, the government's case against the branch davidians is brought to court.

>> in san antonio today, the nightmare final hours of the branch davidian standoff came back to life, as the prosecution rested its case against 11 cult members accused of killing four federal agents last february. f >> why are you here? >> to see if there's justice. >> they were charged with conspiracy to murder federal agents. and murder of federal agents. and of using a firearm to do that. and with various gun possession charges. >> all 11 defendants plead not guilty. in the end, all are acquitted of murder and conspiracy charges. seven are found guilty of voluntary manslaughter. of these, five are also guilty of carrying a firearm during the commission of a crime. >> i was bitterly disappointed at the verdict. but at the same time, you know, the jury did hold them.

they did go to prison. >> most defendants get 15 years in prison but their sentences are later reduced. david thibodeau is only held as a material witness and never charged with a crime. >> the trial was disgusting. what a piece of --. the wrong people were tried. the wrong people went to jail. in the aftermath of what happened at waco. don't just dream of being the hero. make it happen. i can't believe we're missing the game for this. we're not-- i've got xlte. it doubles our 4g lte bandwidth in cities nationwide, so be that guy with verizon xlte. now get 1gb of bonus data, and our best pricing ever on the more everything plan.

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the long battle over the complex may be nearing an end. following a jury ruling on friday. >> a jury ruled the government was not to blame for the cult members' deaths. >> after a criminal trial, a civil trial, two congressional hearings and countless inquiries, those involved with the tragedy at waco remain

divided. >> there are those people who will never believe that waco occurred because of the simple fact that david koresh broke the law and the government came to enforce the law. they would rather believe in conspiracy theories because they don't want to face the reality of what waco really represents, which is that there are cults, destructive cults, that exist within our country and around the world. and that there is this potential for tragedy. >> a handful of branch davidians still worry at mt. carmel. under the leadership of a man named charles pace. evidence of the fire serves as a painful reminder of what took place in 1993.

and plaques commemorate those who lost their lives in the raid and in the fire. david karesh's name is not wrong them. . >> he represents satan, a created being who thought he was god. do you understand what i'm saying? you do not sit in the seat of god. god the creator sits in that place. but vernon howell did do what god asked him to do so that this will be a literal example of what god is going to do to anyone putting man in the place of god. i believe vernon howell, the one who played the part, will be

resurrected. raised from the dead. the very ones that thought they killed him and slaughtered him here without a trial, without a judgment, he's going to come back to judge them. >> best of my knowledge he is still quite dead. and it's unfortunate because i would have thoroughly enjoyed to be able to analyze and assess and come to grips with the motivations of somebody that could intentionally lead particularly those kids to oblivion. there's a special place in hell for david koresh. >> i'm ready to be delivered, go to the portals of darkness and death and you're not. let's see if you believe the message after so many years. >> given the behavior of david

koresh, the lives he destroyed, the people he killed, the families he ripped apart, the children that he abused and all that he did, it's hard to view him as anything other than a monster. >> my own opinion on it is that he was sincere. that he failed but that he had convinced himself that he was who he said he was. that's my sense of studying messiahs throughout history. he's not the first, certainly not the last. >> the thing about apocalyptic movements is it has a very e serious affect on your life. my father taught me, i'm not going to grow up. the world will come to an end. i don't even have to go to college. right? so i didn't go to college. i joined a cult instead.

>> i had to go through these things. it was an adventure. the only thing i'm sorry for is the outcome. i think the outcome could have been avoided and i wish certain things wouldn't have happen, i wish david didn't do certain things and the federal authorities but it still ended up the way it did and i don't apologize for it. >> it didn't start out as a cult but it ended as a cult. and after vernon, i refuse to ever allow myself to give up that kind of reality to anyone or anything ever again. now i'm an atheist. ♪ ♪ there's a mad man living in waco ♪ ♪

when the plane first banked over jonestown, it looked like a quilt, and we didn't know what we were seeing until someone in the cockpit said, those are bodies. >> die with a degree of dignity, lay down your life with dignity. don't lay down with fears and agony. >> you could actually smell the death in the airplane.