we must never be a place that we can have fear be the reasons we make moves. roosevelt said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. thank you for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. afraid to vote? let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening. in washington tonight 13 years after 9/11, the president declares war on a new terrorist enemy. but where's the congress? he says we'll have allies in the fight against isis, but where are the allies here at home? also tonight, will the nfl really deal with a player knocking out his knife? and with an executive office that seemed to allow it?

finally, a look at the last days of the vietnam war through pictures that highlight the fear of those left behind. we start with the trumpet from washington, the failure of both parties in congress to step up and says, yes, wooy support the president's call to drop bombs on the islamic state. do the democrats and republicans believe in this war or not? if it does, why won't it put its word to it. or are there members waiting to see how it turns out. and if so, why do they have to serve in congress to do that? any one of us can sit on the sidelines, watching to see who wins, cheering and booing. victory as a hundred fathers. defeat is an orphan. are members of congress afraid to say what they believe? if they don't want to influence the big matters of our time, they are running away from this one. isn't going to war important enough to vote on? the former democratic governor of pennsylvania.

gentlemen, starting with you, governor, i'm amazed that members of both parties, democrats and republicans, especially their leaders are having a hard time bellying up to this very important vote. should we begin an air campaign into syria against isis or not? >> the answer is absolutely yes, chris. and first of all, it's embarrassing that the republican leaders are silent. this is what they've asked president obama to do for the last eight or nine days and he's done it. and he's done it in a direct and forceful way. they should get behind it. as far as our guys are concerned, if our guys are worried about boots on the ground, they can make the funding for this expanded war contingent upon boots on the ground not coming to pass. they could make the funding. they could sunset the funding. if there are boots on the ground, they could remove the funding. so much they could do. but they have to act swiftly. the president believes he has the authority to do this on his own, so do i.

our local congressman here said the president should go ahead and not wait for a congressional vote. but the president said a congressional vote is important because it sends a message to the world, particularly if republicans and democrats are united. and the president is right, it does send a message to the world, and this is a time for everyone to not be timid, everybody to act together as one congress, representing one country in a war that is justified and can be limited the way the president says it will be limited. >> the day that president roosevelt addressed the congress after pearl harbor, december 8, they voted that day. this doesn't seem to be something that should go to committee. they've been watching this president engage with isis for weeks now. they know this question is coming before the american people. if the question is before the american people, whether we go to war, and there will be casualties, why can't congress step up and vote? >> i think they are going to vote. they'll put their money where

their mouth is -- [ all speak at once ] >> we're already fighting isis. >> the issue of war, why don't they want to address the issue of war? >> i think they'll do like we did with the korean war -- >> no, they're not. john, let's get the facts straight. the only thing they want to vote on is whether we train free syrian army in saudi arabia or not. that's hardly controversial. they're not wanting to vote on whether there's an air campaign attacking the people in syria? >> we already have an air campaign going on in syria. >> not yet. we're beginning one. we haven't started it yet. >> the president hasn't asked for a war resolution -- >> why not? >> i don't think he wants one. i think he wants the ability to do this. he thinks he has the legal authority, and i think he does. [ all speak at once ] >> -- >> it's the same legal authority you have in yemen. these are the same types of groups that have america -- >> did you read the resolution for 2001? it deals with the people who attacked us on 9/11.

this crowd did not attack us then because they didn't exist in 2001. >> i think the president -- there the be plenty of authority within the resolution -- >> your crowd is so busy suing the president. let me go back to the governor. they'll sue the president, threaten him with impeachment if he sbrings in the employer mandate off schedule on the affordable care act. on a matter of war, they say go ahead, we don't want anything to do with it. this is totally contradictory in terms of their notion of the constitution. why did democrats let the republicans get away with saying you can threaten us with lawsuits over whether we initiate a particular provision of a particular law, yet they think the president should stick his neck out alone on going to war. good question, i think, governor. >> it's a great question. and harry reid should list this for a vote as quickly as possible. and look, it's more than just politics as usual. it's more than just, they've

criticized the president and now he's doing what they want. come o don't be hypocrites, guys. this is about a group that decapitated americans who had done nothing wrong. it's a group that's trying to kill people because of their religion. >> i thought the president was very effective last night when he said these people aren't muslims. i thought he was very effective in that. and he's right. these people are killers and they want to terrorize the entire world. it's time for republicans and democrats to step up and act as one. do you remember, chris, after 9/11, what happened later that day? the congress came out and they sang "god bless america" on the step of the capitol, to show they were united. this is a continuation of everything that's happened since 9/11 and i believe the congress should get that message across, not only to the world, but to the american people. let's, for once, bury the

partisanship. >> why wouldn't a member of congress not want to vote on this? >> i think they're taking this very seriously and there might be a vote. >> there won't be, they're afraid to vote. neither side is pushing it through. last night, john mccain told andrea mitchell that congress should vote on this. let's watch this. >> i think that the congress should vote on it, and i do believe that just as president clinton before bosnia came to the congress, george herbert walker bush before desert storm, it's better to have the support of the congress, therefore, getting the support of the american people. >> well said in this case. and today speaker boehner was asked about a vote to go to war in the house. here's what the speaker said. >> why not be much more active and have a vote to give the president authority to have a congressional marker on this, if

this is such an incredible threat? >> i do believe it would be in the nation's interest. i believe it's in the institution of the congress's interest to speak on this question. now, normally in such a case, i've been through this a few times over the 24 years that i've been here, the president of the united states would request that support and would supply the wording of a resolution to authorize this force. at this point in time, we've not gotten that request and we've not seen that language. >> that buck's been passed. florida democrat bill nelson introduced legislation saying there's no question the president has the legal authority he needs to use air strikes in syria. virginia democrat tim cain said i disagree with the president's assertion that he has legal authority to wage an offensive war against isil without congressional approval. john, i guess the problem is, as

the governor said, there's a lot of wuses in this world. >> i will defendant the congress. i know that's not popular. i think the congress is taking this seriously. >> how so? >> they're going to the briefings, trying to figure out where this training money will go to. i think they will have an appropriate vote, vote on the money to pay for this -- >> to pay for what? >> the training. >> what about an air war against isis? are they going to vote for an air war against isis, which the president is committing himself to? >> if the president wants a vote, they'll vote. >> but you don't think the congress should vote? >> i think if the president wants a vote, he'll get a vote. and it will pass. >> you don't think there's a matter of principle -- >> it's usually at the request of the president. >> let me go to a law professor here, governor, the congress of the united states has the power to declare war. iraq, the first gulf car, the

second war, yes, you have to approve this or i'm not going further, where are we on this one, because we are getting into a war with isis that's going to last three years or 20 years, we don't know. but nobody thinks it's going to be a short war, nobody. >> right. if congress needs to debate this, first of all, they should, in my judgment, go on a 24-hour-a-day schedule to thoroughly debate this and get this done. if they feel they need to debate it, the suggestion i referenced earlier, that the president go ahead and authorize the bombing in syria pending the congressional vote, and then they can debate it for all the time they want. but i don't think we can wait. we've probably waited a little bit too long. i think with the second decapitation, for sure, i think we should have taken retaliatory action, and i think the president can go ahead on a limited basis and then let congress debate if they want to

debate it for a week, they can debate it. but frankly, there shouldn't be much debate on this. if you structure the resolution correctly and structure the funding to sunset after a period of time, where if there are boots on the ground, you can remove the funding. you have everything we need to have to make a vote. what's the big deal? it's not so hard -- [ all speak at once ] >> and john mccain had it right on. >> thank you so much. there's a rare unimt there. maybe you'll come along, john, when you come to your senses. you know the congress will want to vote on this if it works. don't you think? >> i think what will happen, if the president asks for a vote, they'll get a vote. he hasn't asked for one yet. >> he hasn't, and i think he should. coming up, more on the president's plan to go to war with isis. some say they won't take part in the air strikes.

how do i win a war in the islamic world without any help from them in the fighting? not only does he has few allies at home, he's got few allies abroad to do the fighting. plus the president campaigned on a promise to end war, and now will start another one in the middle east. not the legacy we had hoped for. coming up, two big stories shed light on the dark side of sports culture. the verdict in the oscar pistorius case and the indefinite suspension of ray rice. is there a culture of protecting violent athletes? finally, if you want to see what the final days of vietnam looked like, watch tonight, the final hours leading to the fall of saigon. >> he swam away. the helicopter was only about 20 feet from him. it was amazing.

>> what a scene you're about to see tonight. that's coming up. this is "hardball," a place for politics. it's called fedex one rate. and it's affordable. sounds great. [ cell phone typing ] [ typing continues ] [ whoosh ] [ cell phones buzz, chirp ] and we have to work the weekend. great. more good news -- it's friday! woo! [ male announcer ] ship a pak via fedex express saver® for as low as $7.50.

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welcome back to "hardball." an initial verdict is out in the biggest worldwide criminal trial in south africa, perhaps the biggest trial in history in terms of attention. today a south african judge handed down an initial verdict. she found pistorius negligent in killing his girlfriend, but acquitted him of murder charges. the court has adjourned with a

final verdict tomorrow. could be a ruling on culpable homicide. but tomorrow is the day to watch. pistorius trial itself has become a worldwide news sensation, much like the o.j. simpson trial, called the trial of the century, that i covered 20 years ago every night. both cases, regardless of the verdict, we had allegations, were certainly domestic violence. in the simpson case, gruesome reports of gruesome beatings. and the tapes. let's listen. >> could you get someone over here now. he's back. >> okay, what does he look like? >> he's o.j. simpson. i think you know his record. could you just send somebody over here. >> what is he doing there? >> he just drove up. >> what car? >> he's in a white bronco. he broke the back door down to get in. >> is he threatening you?

[ bleep ]. >> he's going nuts. >> has he threatened you in any way, or is he just harassing you? >> you're going to hear him in a minute, he's about to come in again. >> just stay on the line. >> i don't want to stay on the line, he's going to beat the [ bleep ] out of me. >> just stay on the line so we can know what's going on until the police get there. >> in the pistorius case, the prosecutors say she locked herself in the bathroom because she was so afraid of him. she also sent him a text message last year, saying, i'm scared of you sometimes, how you snap at me and how you will react to me. goldie taylor, an msnbc contributor and former marine. i want to talk with you. these stories, you could argue it's more than peripheral to the cases themselves in the way that they ended, the death of a person. but in this case, the jocks, you hear about it in the special way they're treated in college, the

training tables, the way they get breaks certainly, some of them don't even have to take the easy courses. walk in, walk out, write a ten-page paper. this coddling of jocks extends now into the area of violent perhaps criminality, without me judging the cases here. what's the story generally that we're getting to here? >> you're right about that, chris. if you think of professional athletes as assets, then you understand that they come through a supply chain, from the time they're in grade school and they first learn how to scoop a basketball or run track or play football. you know, academics, how they are responded to by society, free meals, the girls, you name it. they're coddled by society in general. and then when you look at a coaching staff and you look at academic instructors and others and some of the breaks athletes are given just to push them

through the supply chain, that by the time they become men, by the time they take the field in a professional way, they don't have these cod lers around anymore. and they're also less mature and less able to deal with themselves in a broader society. so we literally cripple these young men as we're bringing them up to be professional athletes. but it goes further than that. we put them into a situation where their body is traumatized, physically and psychologically, with every hit that they take. that has real outcomes, and it unfortunately plays itself out more often than we'd like to think, at home. >> kevin, in the old studio system in hollywood, they protected all the actors this way. messing around, drinking, drug problems, never heard a word about them they had pr people and deals with the cops. now it's worse because the violence level is higher than it was. in the old days of the drunks and otherwise bums. >> i would argue or add to that, that athletes are also the most

scrutinized employment class in america as well. you just laid out all the cases of millions of domestic violence cases every year, how many do we hear about? how often have people been exercised -- >> it's on tape. >> it's on tape, but earlier this year, we had the raidium 1 ceo who hit his girlfriend 117 times. it was captured on tape as well. he was ousted from his position and it never became a national -- >> let's look at this. if it weren't for the bombshell tape with ray rice, it would have been a two-day suspension. christine brennan points out there are numerous players that have gotten off scott-free so far. she wrote, what of ray mcdonald, the san francisco player who facing a felony domestic charge, yet still playing? or greg hardy, who was found guilty of assaulting his former girlfriend and threatening to

killer who also is still playing. or what about rice's teammate, terrell suggs, his long-time girlfriend claim in a protective order filed in 2012, obtained by the baltimore sun, that suggs punched her in the neck and drove a car containing their two children at a high rate of speed, while she was being dragged alongside the car. do you think that's typical of american life? >> i don't think that's typical of american life, but i will say this about what christine wrote and we've talked about it before. the fact that of the matter is that many of us in the media, many of us who are fans of this game, have not held these athletes responsible at all. the same ray rice who is going to be, if his name is mentioned tonight, booed, people are burning his jersey. when he came back in preseason, they were giving him a standing ovation. so what has changed here -- >> i wonder about how much of the culture is being a little bad and tough is all part of the swag of the sport.

thanks so much. wish we had more time tonight. goldie, kevin, thank you for joining us tonight. up next, a look at how the rest of the world is responding to the president's speech from last night. especially within the middle east. we got richard ingram coming on, he's on the ground in iraq with the latest. this "hardball," a place for politics. what would happen... if energy could come from anything? or if power could go anywhere? or if light could seek out the dark? what would happen if that happens? anything. whose bad breath could make a kitten cry? don't let it be you. one swish of scope kills millions of bad breath germs freshening your breath. so you can be the guy whose breath doesn't make kittens cry. [ meows ]

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altima race car. we lied... about the race car part. altima, with 270 horsepower and active understeer control. how did you?...what! i don't even, i'm speechless. innovation that excites. this is not our fight alone. american power can make a decisive difference, but we cannot do for iraqis what they must do for themselves. nor can we take the place of arab partners in securing their region. tonight, with a new iraqi government in place, and following consultations with allies abroad and congress at home, i can announce that america will lead a broad coalition to roll back this terrorist threat. our objective is clear. we will degrade and ultimately

destroy isil, through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy. >> well, the president last night said this is not our fight alone, and that will be working with a broad coalition of allies. but what will that look like? today we found out. germ, turkey, and britain. all said they were unlikely to take part in the air strikes. what about our partners on the ground? is it realistic to think the free syrian army is strong enough to gain territory after we bombed land held by isis? and if not, how do we win a war with air power alone, and without credible allies on the ground or coalition partners willing to get their hands dirty? coming to me tonight, richard ingel and bobby gosh. richard, thanks so much. it was great being on with you last night with everyone else at msnbc in the middle of the night there. i guess the question is, what's the team work going to look like in this war against isis?

>> well, secretary kerry today got a moderate endorsement, at least an endorsement verbally for this counterterrorism strategy, with several sunni arab nations pledging their support, saying that they would limit the traffic of foreign fighters leaving the muslim world to try to contain that flow into syria, that they would cut back on terrorist financing, and that they would help, where appropriate, the military action. the where appropriate was the language they used in the communiqué. but in terms of the actual air strikes, it seems like it would be the u.s. primarily carrying them out. but you've talked about the biggest weakness in all of this. so if we have the arab world lending moral support, effectively tightening their borders, using their good offices to try to smooth the process along. we have the u.s. bombing from above. who is going to go in and fill the gaps on the ground.

in syria, secretary kerry is now talking about reconstituting the fsa, after three years of neglect, the fsa has died. it will need to be reborn, rearmed, retrained, and new leaders for it will have to be found. that is not something that is going to happen quickly. it may not evening successful at all. the iraqi army, which the u.s. spent nearly a decade rebuilding after it fought it and disbanded it, is also going to have to be retrained and given new leadership. that is not going to be easy. there's no guarantee that it will work, because even when u.s. trainers were here, shoulder to shoulder in places like baghdad, it clearly didn't work. so maybe it will work this time. but those are two enormous challenges. and those are just two of the challenges facing this ambitious strategy. so bombing isis, weakeening them, finding their leadership and taking them out with drones,

that's probably the easy part. filling in the gaps is going to be immensely difficult. >> so hang in there, richard. bobby it seems to me the question for the president, you bomb the people like hell. it has to be limited, because if you do carpet bombing over there, or too much, you'll kill a lot of innocent people, hospitals and school kids, and it will be all over international television, end up destroying any good you do in the thing. but if you do keep bombing, one of two things has to happen. one they have to put their hands in the air and say, we give up. hands in the air, surrender to the united states. nobody thinks that's going to happen. the second possibility, somebody will come along after we bombed that area, grab that area and whittle down the amount of area isis controls. as richard just said, there's nobody to do that. so i don't see how the bombing campaign beyond killing a few leaders if we're lucky, gets

anywhere near destroying and degrading isis. i don't see how it works. >> richard is broadly right, but i take a slightly more charitable view of the quality of the boots on the ground. the iraqi forces that initially melted away from in front of isis were some of the worst sort of poorly trained, badery recruited elements of the iraqi army. we've seen more recently better trained brigades up north. they were protecting the capital. we've seen them working with the peshmerga and with the u.s. with american air cover, take back from terrorist from isis in iraq. so it's not that they're completely a lost cause. with the free syrian army, also, a i'm a little more charitable towards them. they've survived more than three years of fighting. yes, they are a depleted force from three years ago, but they've survived and against overwhelming odds against them.

the syrian army, completely outgunned them. they were fighting against the isis on another side and still they've survived. we have to give these guys a little credit. they need a lot of help, money, training, better arms. that's probably why the president is talking about three years and longer to make this happen. this is not going to be. this is not shock and awe. -- >> so your bottom line, as you argue with me, effectively here, is that the free syrian army can defeat isis with our air help? >> a lot of other help. they need training, arms, money, they need intelligence. a lot of things. air cover is the sort of last stage of the operation. they need to be stood up once again as a fighting force first. my argument is, that can happen. >> yes, i wonder if it's plausible, though. thank you, richard and bobby. i remain as skeptical about how this works together. how can the president use an air campaign if there's no one to

exploits it on the ground, take land back and capture these people? are they going to be still be around, shooting us, probably beheading us. coming up, president obama built his legacy on bringing home the troops and keeping the country out of war. how can he recalibrate his presidency now with isis in the picture? you're watching "hardball," a place for politics. beheading us. ♪

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i'm page hopkins. here's what's happening. it's a solemn commemoration at the wrts site as the names of those lost 13 years ago were read. meanwhile, at the pentagon, president obama spoke to victims' family members. and in shanksville, pennsylvania, hundreds gathered at the crash site of flight 93. centers huddled for a confidential briefing on isis. senator chris murphy said there

are elements of the administration's strategy he disagrees with, including arming the syrian rebels. and the cia said the number of isis fighters is now between 20 and 31,000 fighters. now we'll take you back to "hardball." ♪ ♪ welcome back to "hardball." this was not how it was supposed to be for president obama. his primetime speech to america announcing military action in syria is hardly what the candidate who ran and won on his opposition to the iraq war could have envisioned. first there was obama's speech at an anti-war rally in chicago when he was an illinois state senator. a video is featured on youtube. let's listen to that. >> i don't oppose war in all

circumstances and when i look out over this crowd today, i know there's no shortage of patriots or patriotism. what i do oppose is a dumb war. >> well, the november after he electrified the 2004 democratic national convention in boston, obama was elected senator from illinois. he appeared on charlie rose, again criticizing the iraq war. >> i've looked at the evidence. i'm a hawk when it comes to defeating terrorism. i was strongly supportive of afghanistan. i would have picked up arms myself to prevent 9/11 again. i don't think the president has made the case on iraq because i don't see wux -- >> you said this before. >> i said it in october of 2002. six months before the war was launched. >> if you had been a member of the senate, you would have voted against the resolution? >> yes. >> and when he announced his candidacy on a bracing day in sprifl, illinois, an event i

attended, the candidate made clear that a vote for him was a vote to bring home troops from iraq. >> most of you i opposed this war from the start. i thought it was a tragic mistake. today we grieve for the families who have lost loved ones, the hearts that have been broken, and the young lives that could have been. america, it's time to start bringing our troops home [ cheers and applause ] >> it's time to admit that no amount of american lives can resolve the political disagreement that lies at the heart of someone else's civil war. that's why i have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by march of 2008. >> and then last night, in a turn he could have hardly imagined, the president prepared americans for another conflict. >> it will take time to eradicate a cancer like isil. and any time we take military

action, there are risks involved. especially to the servicemen and women who carry out these missions. but i want the american people to understand how this effort will be different from the wars in iraq and afghanistan. it will not involve american combat troops fighting on foreign soil. this counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady, relentless effort to take out isil, wherever they exist, using our air power, and our support for partners' forces on the ground. >> as i said at the start tonight, this was not how it was supposed to be for barack obama. joining me now is david nakamura with "the washington post." david, you wrote this great piece about a turn in the road for the president. i was thinking how this was something that franklin roosevelt, reading about it a lot lately, had to go from end the depression to fight and win the second world war. then you look at lyndon johnson, who had a terrible change, from

mr. let's end poverty in america, with medicaid and medicare and all the good things he did, then got sunk into the vietnam war. how would you compare the turn in the road for the president now, to those two previous turns for presidents? >> it's a big difference from just six years ago when he was popular around the world and in the united states for his views so different from president bush. i think just a few months ago, he gave a speech about his foreign policy. he's been criticized for being too cautious. but he doesn't want to get the president in a long, drawn-out campaign without objective and without a clear end date. and last night, as much as he tried to mark the limits of our engagement, with no ground forces, it's not clear how long it will last. behind the scenes, the administration has been acknowledging this is probably going to outlast the president's term, ending in 2017. that's not the legacy that he

expected or that he intended to leave. >> so in the middle of this upcoming presidential campaign, which may begin in january. so we'll have a two-year campaign with a war going on. >> that presents problems for hillary or whatever the democrat is, because if it's seen as a democrat's war -- >> bob dole's old phrase. >> right, it hangs around her neck too. thinking about obama, the great irony, i'm sure he came into office thinking that just by virtue of not being george bush and by ending the wars in afghanistan and iraq, which he planned to do and is doing, sort of. he thought that he would be a completely different kind of president. i mean, he won the nobel peace prize in his first year in office. >> how could he have prevented the development of isis? >> he couldn't have. >> isis came out of the failure of the government in baghdad.

>> i'm not blaming him here. he's doing what he has to do. i'm just pointing out the irony of the fact that this guy, who i'm sure wanted to be a presidency of peace, his foreign policy will hang on whether he succeeds in waging this war. >> how does this square, david, with doing something positive, like fighting aids in east africa, or doing things you can freelance? is there anything else he can do in foreign policy if he's fighting a war in iraq and syria? >> this limits his options. one of the biggest issues for this administration, in addition to negotiations with iran, is a turn to the asia pacific where there's a real concern about the growth of china as another superpower. >> the turn to china? >> absolutely. the president will go to china as part of this asia pivot. he's going to go in november. but they have been distracted by that. they don't have money for it,

and the military is not as engaged as it should be if you're going to carry that out. so not only is it a difficult issue in the middle east they're dealing with, not only is there a situation in ukraine they didn't expect, but it's going to take away from many of the other legacy initiatives that they're talked a lot about and the administration knows that and it's a big concern. >> i'm asking you this because we think alike, could the president's turn to the hawkish said give hillary more cover to be hawkish if she runs for president? >> yes, provided this is going okay. if this is not going okay, then it's the opposite of cover. but if it's going okay in 2016. then sure it does. wink wink, he did what i said he should do. >> thank you for that article today which got our heads around it. we like people to do that. thank you, michael as always. up next, rory kennedy joins

us. she'll be right here, the daughter of bobby and ethel kennedy, with a new documentary about the final weeks of the vietnam war. great footage, which we've never seen before, of a pretty horrible time, with lots of desperate people trying to get out of that country in 1975. this is "hardball," a place for politics. perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be... one-seventy-five a month. good calculating kyle. good job kyle. you just made partner. our best-ever pricing on mobile share value plans for business. now with a $100 bill credit for every business line you add. smoking with chantix. as a police officer, i've helped many people in the last 23 years. but i needed help in quitting smoking. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking.

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and it might have scared some people about the threat here at home. especially some in texas, apparently. the search engine google was there to answer those questions. here were their top six. at number six, is isis in mexico? aside from south of the border, many wanted to know if isis was in houston, el paso, or just texas in general. some widened their search with the number two question. is isis in america? and the number one question searched on google during the president's speech last night, what is the difference between isis and isil? and we'll be right back. i am so nervous right now, it's not even funny. oh my gosh... driver 1 you ready? yeah! go! [sfx] roaring altima engine woah!

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by march of 1973, the last u.s. troops had left south vietnam. for this country the war was finally over. but just two years later, the north

>> he hovered with his wheels in and out of the water. here's a man flying a twin rotor helicopter by himself. at the same time he's taking off a flight suit. how you do it, i've talked to helicopter pilots, and they can't figure out how he did that, like a houdini trying to get out of this thing. finally, he made the helicopter roll to the right as he stepped out the door on the left.

he swam away. the helicopter was only about 20 feet from him when it hit the water. it was amazing. >> joining me now is rory kennedy, producer and director of that documentary, called "last days in vietnam." we all thought we knew everything from the one picture of people being pushed off the ladder to get up top. what more is there to the story in pictures? >> i think that's right. a lot of us feel like we know the whole story from that picture, and it's such an extraordinary story, that impact happened during the final days of the vietnam war that so few of us really understand and appreciate. the chaos of that moment, how we got to the point where people were leaving off of helicopters, and so dramatic and heart-stopping. it's an amazing story that really hasn't been shared widely to this day. but one of the things that the film shows, at that time, the policy was just to get the americans out of vietnam, because it got so hectic so

quickly. and our story shows how americans on the ground went against u.s. policy to save as many vietnamese as possible. >> because they knew the people? >> they were family with them. they spoke vietnamese. they were part of the culture, they cared about them. they knew if they left them behind, they could be killed, they would be tortured. they would end up in camps and >> tell me about the timing of the onslaught when the north and east start to make their big run to take the country. was that something that came really fast and, therefore, the people had no way of gradually getting out or getting in boats or whatever? fly commercially out of the country if they had the money. >> well, what happened was we had signed the peace accord in '73. so at that time, all the u.s. troops had been withdrawn. so at this point in 1975, there had been about 6,000 personnel in the country. the north then came in and thought it would take two years to get to saigon. it took four months.

so by the time they got to saigon, we were unprepared as a government, we had no evacuation plan, the ambassador who was really the person who was in the position to make a decision to green light the evacuation refused to do so. >> because? >> he thought that it would cause a panic and he was very attached to south vietnam and didn't want to see it fall under his leadership. so these people who saw what was going to happen, the american troops said we've got to do something about this. and they start this block operation that was under the radar of the u.s. government and they started getting people out of the country through the airports, through ships, through every mean necessary. and, you know, that story shows there's some extraordinary moments of incredible courage on the part of the south vietnamese. that guy went on a helicopter with his family out to sea, chasing the american helicopters

that were heading to the fleet. he didn't have enough gas, he had his children with him. he couldn't land on the ship, so he threw his children out of the door of the helicopter and they landed on the kirk and the men down there caught each and every one of these children. it's an amazing story and the film is full of extraordinary moments like that. >> it's an honor to have you. what a piece of work. i've got to see it. and i'm going to see it. it's playing 234 new yo ining i now. it will be playing here in washington starting tomorrow. we'll be rierlgt back. hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection? sure, we help with fraud protection. if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. you are saying "frog protection"? fraud. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. fraud protection. get it at discover.com

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let me finish tonight with this war without a name. without even a declaration of war. without even a mention that it is a war. i know why a politician would not warrant to vote on going to war. it's the old rule of politics. the safest vote is to vote for a measure that fails against a measure that passes. you might ask what kind of politician would want to have his vote not count because he or she did not have a role in something happening or not happening. well, today, on the question of whether we declare war on isis, the consensus seems to be that we stay out of the rarng of fire. you keep yourself at such a distance from the war that nobody can blame you. we should think about this tendency and not wonder why congress did a job approval of just 7%.

the mystery is not number 7. the mystery is that it doesn't stop people from electing and re-electing the same people and expecting a better, more courageous performance. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight, on "all in" president isis plan is out. republicans want more, more, more. >> a lot of our members think a lot more needs to be cone. >> roger gadell is speaking again. >> we were obviously very disturbed. >> the latest on the investigation of the ray rice scandal as nfl owners signal they may be willing tofi fire their commissioner. plus, new details from the two latestic