do we lose season ticket holders? do we lose sweet holders? do we lose sponsorships? that's so petty at this stage. i regret i let people down. i regret that people love us might not love us any more. i'm sad for that and i'm sorry for that but i'm not scared of that. >> that's again how you do it. >> that's how you do it. beautiful shot of the empire state building. >> gorgeous morning. that's how you do it, man. that's how you do it. you know what? the nfl and other owners need to look at this guy. you hear a lot about ray rice.

ray rice, obviously -- exposes so much that the nfl doesn't want us to know about. that we haven't been paying attention to. we talk about ray rays. what about greg hardy. greg hardy is a carolina franchise panthers player. he's a pro bowl defensive lineman. because $13 million a year. this summer he was convicted of two counts of domestic violence. the court found that after a night of heavy drinking the 6'4", 280 pound nfl star threw a woman down on a sofa, full guns, then choked her. hurled her violently into a shower and then to top it off he threatened to kill her. oh, one more bit of information about this case just in case you didn't know about it. the convicted criminal led his

nfl team to a win this past sunday. which proves just how callous and indifferent the nfl leadership is. where a culture let's massive gladiators beat, abuse defenseless women who are half their size. now wednesday night the panthers owner jerry richardson broke down in tears during a ceremony in his honor that was given for the award against indifference. that's what the award is called, the award against indifference. he should be crying tears of shame because when he let this convicted criminal put the pan she's jersey back on he showed the indiffers to men and women and boys and girls who also wear that jersey and cheer on his team and more importantly indifference to the countless victims of domestic violence.

>> he's convicted. he's appealing it. as long as he's appealing a conviction why is he playing. >> convicted in a court of law. >> baltimore ravens took to the field last night under a cloud of ray rice scandal. this is another element that maybe adds to the indifference we're talking about. they had to at the last minute alter their broadcast plan. this is what their plan was. cbs scrapped its pre-game program which was featuring rihanna, herself a victim of domestic violence for coverage of the fallout. in a series of interviews the team's owner apologized. >> had you known in february what was on that video inside the elevator would you have fired him then? >> we probably would have been told we should wait until the court case came out.

they had it. the police had it and gave them equal misdeamnors that night. again, that's astounding to me. and for me to tell you the truth, it makes me look like i'm pointing fingers at other people, but they gave them equal misdeamnors. >> you weren't getting a signal from the courts in new jersey that this was as bad -- >> or the prosecutor that gave them probation. if this is a seminal moment for domestic violence, and the way we handle it as a society, then that's not a burden for us to be that poster boy. it's not. now i'm embarrassed about it but five years from now things have changed significantly for the better i'll be proud it. >> all right, willie. what do you make of all this?

the jersey d.a. charges them with equal misdeamnors. >> that's the part of the story that hasn't gotten enough attention as we talk about nfl and ray rice. authorities, law enforcement authorities looked at this case and said that's a misdeamnor. they saw what was in the elevator. that's a misdeamnor. the prosecutor gave them probation, no jail time. so many people falling down on their responsibilities here, so many people giving celebrity with a big name a break it's disgusting. we have a victim here who was sort of coerced, janay palmer then janay rice now. >> there are a couple of other cases. i talked about what's happening in north carolina, but also out in san francisco you have another case of abuse. obviously part of a culture. how does the nfl let a guy who has been convicted in the court of law, just this

summer put on a uniform and play? >> it's disgusting. >> it is. he's a franchise player which makes it even more disgusting, right >> yeah. absolutely. if you do something like that at the very least the team should sit him down and say until we resolve this -- or you can cut the guy. the nfl player's association has a saying in all this. it gets complicated. steve spurrier said if i ever hear you raised your hand to a woman you're off the team. >> what allow as culture in the nfl, what allows players who have been convicted of choking, beating up, threatening to kill, tossing around a woman -- >> i'll give you four reasons. jerry jones is facing sexual harassment suit the owner of dallas cowboys is facing a sexual harassment suit. the owner of the

indianapolis/colts is in drug rehab. the owner of the new england patriots saw his team being hit for a cheating scandal and hiring a guy who is now in prison and not only hiring him and gave him a pay raise. and the new orleans saints one of the worst bounty scandals in history. these are owners. only five that we know. all of this stuff starts at the top and it trickles down. so that's the first problem. this is not absolving any player of any individual thing. >> you're just saying -- >> it starts here. by the way we are talking about the nfl. we're not even mentioning hockey or major league baseball. we saw a clip about the guy getting hit in the head. what i'm saying is sports has become so aggressive -- when we were kids and maybe it was a

myth since we were kids, sports was an institution that built character. now what we're seeing is that sports basically adds to the, sort of corrosion of our culture. and one more thing. if you look at that scene in baltimore, people are going nuts. they were grilling them. wait until sunday. >> what i couldn't believe is women walking around with a ray rice uniform. it's one thing if they didn't know what actually happened inside the elevator. they knew he beat into submission, knocked out a woman half his size and they are celebrating that. what is wrong with them? what's wrong with these people? >> listen, i think fans do have some complicity in this, i think. >> a lot. >> i see three factors here. one is we have to put out there,

there's a presumption of innocence aspect to these things. you are supposed to be presumed before being found guilty. >> first of all we have the tape. >> i'm saying in general. >> what do you think -- i don't mean to blow up your talking points, but what about the fact -- >> that's slanderous. >> what about coming out of north carolina where you've actually got a guy -- >> i'll get to that. that's number eight. the second is the desire -- >> willie take a smoke. >> there's the fans. there's the very -- there's a hesitancy to boycott. you see them showing up at the game, buying the jerseys. ravens are through the roof. nfl has a female fan base and there's the mentality of winning at all cost. there's an amazing anecdote

about brent myers. he was arrested for hitting his girlfriend in 2006. pitched 36 hours late per the general manager had this to say to start him 36 hours later. quote he's our best pitcher. that was it. he was the best pitcher. of course he would start even if he was arrested for hitting his girlfriend of course he would start. that's the problem. we have to win at all costs. >> by the way, absolutely unbelievable in that case, in this case and i can tell you with an institution that i love the university of alabama, i remember they had a head football coach who actually was charged with sexually had harassing somebody that worked with him. they let him stay on an extra year. they asked a member of the board of trustees what does his future look like. the quote in the paper was all i can say is he better win at least 11 games or he's in trouble. i didn't watch a game that year.

it's disgusting. mika, what do you think about those women who are wearing ray rice jerseys? >> it actually is part of the problem. it's very hard to criticize janay ricin this situation so i'm not going to. but the point is there's a whole other side of domestic violence story where victims like rihanna or like others don't want to press charges, don't want to actually end a relationship, don't want to get out of it. and i'm not going to go too far into their relationship but she certainly symbolizes a problem there and these women do too. we'll get more to get the story out there in just a second but first an espn report takes issue with roger goodell's version of events. multiple stories told "outside the lines" that in a meeting rice paint ad clear picture of what happened in that elevator and admitted to hitting his then

fiancee. goodell said in an interview this week when he met with the star running back, rice's description of what happened was ambiguous, therefore protecting himself from not seeing that tape. >> i can't help but look at the roger goodell interview and not see just one thread here -- the whole thing -- >> disaster. it sure looks like it. what we saw yesterday for the first time ray rice watching this all unfold wait a minute i screwed up, i know i screwed up, i get what i deserve but i won't allow the nfl to completely ruin my life. ray rice got out there and said i told you what happened in elevator and you gave me two games. >> we're talking about ray rice and i've said there's something you just can't forgive. if ray rice -- ray rice should not be set up as some sort of

flunky by the nfl and everybody else when he actually symbolizes a much bigger problem. like he's been suspended, he's been kicked off the team for a year, et cetera, et cetera. let's see how he handles it. maybe he becomes a champion against domestic violence. but, seriously, nfl, roger goodell and everybody else don't acting shocked. >> if they acted correctly from the beginning, janay rice wouldn't be in this position. right is right, wrong is wrong. ray rice is far from the only athlete in the nfl accused of domestic violence but one of the few that's paying a price for it. just a few. ray mcdonald of the 49ers is out on $25,000 bail accused of felony domestic violence and assaulting his pregnant fiancee. he played in the team's first game of the season on sunday, just days after this incident.

the decision saying he's not ray rice. the ceo -- >> no ray rice didn't beat up a pregnant woman. >> they had bruises on her arms and neck. they justified keeping mcdonnell on the field by saying quote, i rather have someone criticize me for doing that than punishing someone who is innocent. >> he's not innocent. >> he's charged but you wait. phil, let me show you something. here's 49ers coach jim harbaugh being asked about it. >> there's two very strong principles at play. number one, we'll not tolerate domestic violence and the second principle is the respect for due process. once you get fact or information and you're going to be in a better time and a better place to make a decision or to make

judgments. >> steve young disagrees with that decision. a lot of other people did. says any company in this country, any big company if that happens they send you home. they might pay you, but you don't play. you don't come to work until we figure this out. >> absolutely right. >> steve is exactly right. bill, i understand the innocent until proven guilty bit. at the same time if you're running -- like let's say any of us would be sent home, if the police come and our pregnant fiancee has bruises all over her arms, they wouldn't let you keep your column. but they are letting these guys doing it because it's about money. they help win games. they help the panthers win games. they help the ravens win games. that means millions and millions of dollars. >> i'm sure in every situation there's some very powerful

people at this moment who are doing some pretty hideous things domestically. in the national football league, national basketball association, major league baseball it's about women. this shows you how early this stuff starts. there are a couple of kids who were like 10, 11 years old and because somebody told them that they got a nice crossover and they -- i had a couple of kids out of the program because at age 10 somebody told them that because you can kind of play then you can kind of throw a tantrum. >> you're right. there's not a single other industry in which this activity would ever pass muster. >> i bet you when you dig into this if you find a guy that's like on third screen and plays like on scrub squad, something like this happens they are gone.

if you're the franchise player for the panthers guess what? he's innocent untilhcdi=y guilty. >> one thing that's a shame if we went through all this and the lesson is that it's fine to do it so long as you don't have a videotape of doing it. >> mcdonnell has not been convicted of anything so they can say innocent until proven guilty. hardy was convicted. what your waiting for? why is he still playing? >> still ahead on "morning joe" our conversations with former secretary of state henry kissinger. actor josh charles and ken burns on his new documentary. that's coming up on "morning joe." yesterday we showed you the -- >> no, not another. >> stop it. >> we showed the widest yesterday. >> stop it. >> oh, my lord! why inwe shall return. knows dinner

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♪ time to look at the morning papers. >> oh, man. let's look. yesterday "daily news" -- yesterday obviously the 9/11 remembrance but "daily news" has a beautiful cover. it still hurts. the memorial yesterday, it was a special day because the memorial opened up for the first time on 9/11 and i know that meant a lot to the families. >> that's an amazing place. if you're coming to new york you got to go the museum. >> we'll start with "the telegraph." former olympian oscar pistorius has been found guilty of culpable homicide. the crime similar to manslaughter charge in the united states could carry up to 15 years in prison time. pistorius was convicted of

firing a gun during a separate incident at a restaurant in january of 2013, but cleared of two other firearm charges. on thursday 27-year-old cried as the judge announced she would not convict him under two murder charges. his sentencing will be held at a later date. >> wow. >> wow. >> couldn't prove premeditation. >> exactly. because he only shot like how many times through the door while she's screaming in there? >> awful. >> how could you not find premeditation there. anyway. >> the sentence cigarette later but he could get a fine. maximum is 15 years. he can get anywhere from a fine to is a years. from our parade of papers "baltimore sun" overshadowed by the ray rice story but week two of the nfl kicked off in baltimore, first game since all this exploded. baltimore unphased by the controversy, playing pittsburgh. joe flacco hits daniel, justin

tucker for a couple of field goals. holding the steelers to two field goals the entire game. baltimore is 1-1 after a 26-6 blow-out win over pittsburgh. >> steelers didn't look good. >> "miami herald." dangerous night. milwaukee marlins outfielder giancarlo stanton struck in the face by an 88 mile-per-hour fastball from mike fires. this is in the fifth inning. stanton one of the biggest stars in the game. fell to the ground. remained for several minutes. his medical staff rushed to his aid and carted off to the hospital. he suffered multiple facial fractures, dental damage and facial laserations that required stitches. my gosh. marlins manager mike redmond said he's a leading candidate for mvp likely done for the season. by the way umpires ruled stanton

swung at the pitch and called it a strike. how is that? so with an 0-2 count pinch hitter reed johnson comes up and is hit next. that was also called a strike. marlins not happy about another teammate getting hit so the bench is cleared. little pushing and shoving no punches thrown. same pitcher hitting the same guy. brewers won the game 4-2. the pitcher went to social media tweeting his apology to stanton and extending his well wishes. that's the nightmare for a hitter in baseball. >> let's go the santa cruz sentinel. the man with the world's widest tongue yesterday and today we have the proudjçvñ owner of the world's longest talk. by arena c -- byron schlanker

measured in at 8.7 centimeters. apparently it's growing. >> come on. >> oh. no! >> from california with the world's longest -- >> they both like ice cream. what is he doing? >> he's painting. he's painting a picture for you willie. >> he's an artist. >> anyhow he's able to paint on canvas. >> i don't want to see that. >> okay. >> i want to go to "parade." >> i don't want to see any more of them. >> this week's "parade" magazine a close look at the unlikely pair, tony bennett and lady gaga. their collaboration on an upcoming album called "cheek to

cheek." >> sounds really good. they actually work well together. >> everything will be okay. >> what's going on there? >> ray rice is a born again christian. this is what the "new york post" is reporting. i love the artwork. >> what's coming up? >> is

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get schlanker on. >> no schlanker. why does he have that name? >> now a sit down with schlanker. >> we have the the director of the earth institute. he won't be talking about schlanker's wide tongue and jonathan is with us.

let's quickly get to this. "new york times" the reluctant leader this, is by david brooks, the successful reluctant leader forces himself to embrace the fact that while this is not the destiny he would have chosen, it is his duty and he will follow to it the end. sometimes just preventing something bad is noble enough. everybody is weighing in on the obama strategy. the strategy will change. the crucial factor is the man. here's charles krauthammer, obama's uncertain trumpet again. you can sense obama had been dragged unwillingly into this new unproclaimed war, which was reminiscent of obama's speech five years ago announcing the surge in afghanistan. in the very next sentence he announce ad fixed date of withdrawal. even the best war plans run into trouble. on that day we will need a steady, determined president committed to the mission. do we have one even now? and jeffrey sacks, let the

middle east fight its own war on isis. if the united states had a strategy for real success we would let the middle east face and resolve its own crises and demand a u.n. framework for action. we would team up not with nato but with the u.n. security council and put others for once into the lead. we would actually mobilize to solve the real problems facing the region, poverty, hunger drought. at the end of the day cause men and boys to fling their lives into useless and suicidal slaughter. if just once in our times our politicians had the bravery to build coalitions to improve the lives of the people through development rather than through bombs, the u.s. public would be amazed to see how push agreement there is. >> you don't talk about educational reform to a guy with a gun to your head.

>> what i said yesterday has come true. arabs give tepid support to u.s. fight against isis. are you kidding? this is the u.s. fight against isis not their fight? and then it says. >> it's a threat to their government. >> the u.s. is getting less than an enthusiastic welcome with leading allies like egypt, jordan and turkey all finding ways to avoid specific commitments. this is absurd for president obama to say, we'll do it and then go out and say what you guys? that's fine. you do it. >> so you obviously disagreed with the president's approach the other night? >> it's absurd. we're doing again and again what we keep doing, bombs from the air can only cause disarray if there are not solutions on the ground. you get what we have which is spreading war across thousands and how to sands of miles now without one political solution and this is why. they let the u.s. take all the heat, all the expenses, all the

action and they stand back and say that's the u.s. war. are you kidding? >> jonathan, should the president avoid it? >> i don't think it's possible for the president to avoid it. i think david brooks also says or maybe it's krauthammer but they are both basically saying the same thing about the president coming at it from different angles that it's not possible for the united states to allow a caliphate to set itself up in the middle of the middle east. my heart is with jeffrey and i think in an ideal world, in an ideal situation that, yes, the united states would go to the u.n. and the u.n. would come together and do something globally as the international community about isis, but that's just not the case and the fact that the middle eastern governments don't want to -- they have tepid support for the quote u.s. war with isis shows why the united states needs to be there. if they are tepid about somebody else fighting their own wars

then they won't do anything to solve their own problems. the united states just can't let that happen. the world can't let that happen. >> unbelievable, because who has been wrong more consistently than anyone in this country. it's been david brooks, 11 years, every single column wrong. he was the one -- >> every single column wrong. >> everyone about this issue. going into iraq. don't be hesitant 11 years ago, it's all a great success. we won the war. we've done this. we've done that. it's unbelievable. this is the person we're quoting. krauthammer same way. 11 years in spreading disaster. no solutions. this is what we say. this is the only thing the united states can do. >> let me say, willie, i'm glad that the mantle of the person getting everything wrong has been transferred to me. >> you got a lot right.

>> to david brooks. >> david, i need -- >> i want to clarify, he's been wrong about this thing every time. every time. >> so, do you believe, first of all, jeff, that isis is a threat to the united states? >> no, not this way. isis has 10,000 people on the ground is what the cia says. there are hundreds of thousands of people in the saudi army, in the turkish army, in the neighborhood. >> so you don't think we should be involve at all. >> you would be surprised. i can tell you what diplomats are saying, israeli diplomats and others. this is not it. you know, i'm concerned, of course, but it's a joke for the arabs to give tepid support to the u.s. fight. are you kidding? >> by the way we do agree on that part. we absolutely agree. i said it yesterday if they are not willing to fight for

themselves then we shouldn't fight for them because guess what? it's their moderate sunni government that face the exodus. i've talked about iran being a threat to israel. guess what? this is isis being a threat to moderate sunni state. >> if you were noboegotiating, do everything. >> i would do what james baker did. i would go around all right saddam hussein went to kuwait. threat to the world. japan what will you do. japan would say we need more money. james baker made a profit for the united states military because they went around and you are exactly right you negotiate first. these arab states and what really, what pisses me off they

whisper to america that's a problem we'll be behind you. we go in and their state-run newspapers in egypt and saudi arabia blast american imperi imperiali imperialists. >> it's game and we've fallen into it another time. >> jonathan stay with us if you will and we'll have you defend charles krauthammer next. jonathan's head hurts now because he's been bashed for defending david brooks. >> up next why stopping isis is just the first step to solve the problems in iraq. former senator george mitchell joins us next. and then anita dunn and mick mulvaney join us for a healthy debate.

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joining us now former senate majority leader george mitchell. he served as u.s. special envoy to the middle east, author of major baseball league's mitchell report. you just delivered your second annual report on this and i guess let's start with penn state. did they get off the hook in the end for years of sexual abuse. >> they have done a good job following the sandusky incident and i recommended and the ncaa and big ten accepted my recommendation that the sanctions be modified in some respects. >> why is that? >> as a reward for good behavior in response to the crisis. and as an incentive to continue down that path in the future. they have a new administration

coming in, a new president. the prior president who was an interim did a great job and erick we hope will continue on the right path that he indicated very strongly he will. >> let's talk about a couple co-aluminum you had in the "boston globe." it ran a great series on you. what do we do in the middle east where you obviously have an israeli government led by netanyahu who has lost 20 points popularity. you got hamas on the other side. the palestinian authority is trying to minimalize, marginalize. what do we do to bring those two sides together. is there more hope today than before the attacks in gaza? >> you can't say there's more hope but i think there's a growing recognition that there isn't any alternative to a two state solution, first. secondly, that both of them will

be worse off without an agreement than they will be if they get one and so the pain of getting an agreement is less than the pain that will follow if they don't get an agreement. i think there's a growing recognition of that, that the current situation is unsustainable. >> did netanyahu let some opportunities go past with the weakening of hamas in gaza? >> as i said in that article, joe, one serious crux of the problem is that both netanyahu and abbas don't trust each other, don't believe in the other's sincerity, so you're a former politician. why would a politician take a few steps that would create political dissension at home if he doesn't think that some realistic -- >> doesn't trust the partner. >> they don't believe in the sincerity and seriousness of purpose of the other side. >> we had a pretty fiery debate

with dr. sacks on the threat of isis and the tepid support from the arab league. do you think the president has, perhaps, misjudged how much support he's going to be getting in the fight against isis? >> no, i think he's had enough experience to know it's not going to be robust. it is no coincidence that isis has succeeded only in areas where the population is predominantly sunni and is disaffected from their national government. in both cases the national government being a shia government which has been partisan and narrow and not inclusive. and i think the president has correctly identified the presence of a meaningful national government in iraq as a central element in this process. that's far more important than what the king of jordan or others might say or not say and so i think that's the essential

step and i believe it is happening, although it's a very difficult thing. the shia were oppressed for many years by horrid sunni regime in saddam hussein, and it's human nature to say now i'm on top, i'm going treat you the way you treated me. but the reality is it's not in the interest of the shia in iraq to do that. and they have an interest and i think the current prime minister recognizes that and hopefully he'll be able to get it done. >> let us hope. speaking of tragedies we saw him opening day boston red sox this year. it's bean gruesome season. >> you really know how to hurt a guy. >> i'm still in pain. >> thank you so much. coming up is the war against isis actually a war? congressman mick mulvaney and anita dunn join the conversation. then we go behind-the-scenes of new york's fashion week with

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♪ i think that's the wrong terminology. what we're doing is engaging in

a very significant counterterrorism operation. it's going to go on for some period of time. if somebody wants to think about it as being a war with isil they can do so but the fact is it's a major counterterrorism operation that will have many different moving parts. >> that is secretary of state john kerry, stopping short of calling the u.s. mission against isis a war and joining us now from the white house communications director and now managing director, anita dunn. also with us republican representative from south carolina, congressman mick mulvaney. >> congressman, if we use war planes, if we use bullets, if we try to kill people, i'm sorry, is that not a war? >> it is. i think the best way to look at it is ask ourselves how we would feel if somebody was doing that to us. we would consider ourselves to be at war. i saw that last night. i was surprised to hear the secretary of state say that

after the president had just gone on television to express and i think properly so the level of the threat and prepare us forgoing to war and then have a secretary of state sort of say the exact opposite. i'll say this in congress the last 48 hours since the speech, we're considering it as if -- we're making a decision whether or not to go to war. >> anita dunn, how could it not be a war. >> thanks for having me on this morning. good morning to all of you who get up so early every day. the president laid out a clear case for a counterterrorism operation that will take a long time, that will be difficult, that will require a broad coalition to degrade and destroy a terrorist organization. it will require american air strikes, it will require some training, it will require a great deal of thing but he made it very clear as well that he has no intention of returning ground troops, american ground troops. it's an operation and it's a

very aggressive move to confront a challenge. i think secretary kerry put it best you can call it what you want it's an operation that's intended to degrade and destroy a terrorist organization that's a threat to the stability of the middle east and ultimately down the road certainly to the security of the united states. the president made that case. >> congressman, isn't this all about whether you support the president or not, isn't this all about the president and the administration not calling it a war so they don't have to get approval from congress? >> i think there's the political ramifications. they are afraid of being accused of going war when they said they weren't. we don't care what he wants to call it. we don't care what the secretary of state wants to call it. the president has asked congress to give him the authority to go to war. we're treating it as seriously as we possibly can. >> let me show you really quickly congressman and i want to get your take and also anita's take. headline "new york times" arabs

give tepid support to fight against isis. that makes a lot of us angry. it's their government that could be overthrown by isis. shouldn't we get more from them? >> yes. absolutely. >> why aren't we? >> i think success depends on getting more from them, doesn't it, especially if we're going to make the commitment upfront we won't commit ground troops. who will be on the ground. who will tell our fighter pilots where to attack. if we don't have the support from there aren't we making the same mistakes we made for the last 40 years. >> anita jeffrey sachs was on our segment and he said the president negotiated this all wrong he should have gotten the guarantee from the arab states and then say we'll go over there and start dropping bombs. is that a fair point? >> it is. >> anita. >> i'm confused by congressman's mulvaney. on one hand he wants to go to war, on the other he wants to

wait until we have better guarantees. clearly the president feels strongly you need that support on the ground which is why rather than rushing into something which some on capitol hill have been urging him to do, rather than putting troops back into iraq which many in capitol hill say we should be doing, what he has done is begun a process that will take a long time as he told the american people of building support and i think you have seen justin last month success on that front but nobody is pretending this is going to happen overnight and, obviously it's a challenge. >> when did i say i wanted to go to war. that's absurd. congress is asking for the opportunity now to take time to deal with this issue. i think it's the right way to do it. we're trying to be thoughtful of it. members of both parties have the same questions i do. who is the free syrian army. are they really a army? are they moderate? have they been vetted. we know very little about these people. so i think taking a thoughtful approach to going to war might

be a good thing for the united states congress to do. >> congressman mick mulvaney thank you very much and anita dunn thank you very much. healthy debate. we could have used more time for that. >> i don't think she understands why we wake up so early every morning. "way too early." >> coming up, the nfl the under fire after the ray rice incident. but how do other professional sports leagues handle domestic violence. we'll explore that. plus he said the president's strategy against isis was wildly off base. richard engel joins us live from iraq. but first is america's favorite 5-year-old giving up on the very thing that made him famous? >> parental he is. >> parental is your favorite word, isn't it? >> i got over it now. >> you got over it? you don't use parental any more. >> nope. got over it. >> okay. >> isn't 5 the cutest age ever.

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it's a physical game. but that's what these football players, that's what they do. it's not who they are. because who they are is what they do off that field because they are on a pedestal, they are on a platform, they are role models. if the nfl is perceived to have a domestic problem it's our job, our obligation to make sure we take an opportunity to change that image. we have to do the right thing. >> totally. >> i love that. >> do the right thing. >> they scrapped rihanna as the main event. >> smart choice. unfortunate timing. >> may be a little late to make that decision. we have sam stein still with us. joining the conversation, eugene robinson. before we break down the latest with the nfl, bill simmons has a piece on this that is pretty

cutting, right? fair enough. >> bill simmons is the most influential sports voice in sports media. has a great website. we have a good excerpt of the piece he wrote basically asking the question how in the hell does roger goodell still have a job. >> roger goodell's story seems to be unraveling bit by bit. espn is sporting on this in a little bit saying goodell was told by ray rice, guess what i screwed up, i went in front of the cameras, i told everybody i screwed up. goodell, you're not going to throw me under the bus. i told you what was going on. this story of -- >> roger goodell's story we don't know what happened in the elevator. ray rice came in and told us one thing and ray rice came out ned and for the first time he's protecting his own hide. >> goodell supporters are saying he tried to protect janay rice.

>> nfl says that rice said he slapped her. ray rice comes out yesterday through other people and said i told the commissioner exactly what i did in the elevator. >> it's only slightly worse if you didn't know what happened in the elevator. that means he's not on top of his game. he should have been trying get his hands on the video. the fact that he couldn't is an indictment. >> that's bs. read us willie the bill simmons column you were talking about. >> just a slice of it. binghampton simmons writing how the hell does roger goodell still have a job. roger goodell is the worst sports commissioner of my life writes simmons. that's something i included in last week's column about his eight year reign. it's not too harsh. he's the worst. goodell made history this week for me anyway by becoming the first major sports commissioner over to inspire me to say, doesn't this feel like nixon all over again? how can the same scandal blow up

in someone's face three different times. it's impossible. but this america and people love going against the grain. i assumed that i would find at least a couple of reader emails that either defended goodell or half heartedly tried to make a case for him. i didn't find one. >> there are increasing voices saying roger goodell is not up to this and has demonstrated is not up to this. i find it hard to believe that the nfl, it doesn't have a security personnel and want to know everything about their players because they want to protect the integrity and reputation of the league. so you have this incident. you know there are cameras in elevators. you don't make every effort and do everything you can to get that videotape? >> that's because there's a culture that makes them completely blind.

i'm sorry. >> and the money. >> i would love to say he was hiding behind something. no. >> the most generous explanation he didn't want to know which is in and itself -- >> he was not alone. >> what are you thinking it looks like? he's dragging her out -- >> what are they all think, the top brass of the nfl. they think it can go away. espn report takes issue with nfl commissioner roger goodell. multiple sources told "outside the lines" that rice paint ad clear picture of what happened in that elevator. and then admitted to hitting his then fiancee but goodell said in an interview this week that when he met with the star running back rice's description of what actually happened was quote, ambiguous. really? ray rice is far from the only athlete in the nfl accused of

domestic violence. he's actually one of a few who is paying a price. ray mcdonald of the 49ers is out on $25,000 bail accused of felony domestic violence and accused of beating his pregnant fiancee. she had bruises on her arms and neck. 49ers management stood by the decision saying he's not ray rice. the ceo of the team justified keeping mcdonald on the feel by saying quote i would rather have someone criticize me for doing that then punishing someone who is innocent. >> i just want to say, that's one thing that steve young said, a former nfl star for the 49ers. he said if this happened in any other business, if this happened in any other industry, any company in this country steve young said any big company if that happened they send you home. they may pay you but they don't play you. and you don't come to work until we figure this out.

>> then there's greg hardy a pro bowl defensive end for the carolina panthers who was just convicted in june of assaulting an ex-girlfriend. convicted. he played in sunday's game. i wonder how they did. >> they did very well. >> good for them. >> they did well and hardy did well. he's their franchise player. >> i'm learning so much about football. on wednesday hardy missed practice to meet with his lawyer about his domestic abuse case. he's appealing. afterwards the press corps asked the coach about his absence that day. >> greg had a personal day today. yep. nope. >> you can say it's tied into any impending discipline by the league >> nope. >> tied into any criminal matter? >> that's something have to discuss with him and his people.

he a personal day. that's it. >> what's the status for sunday? >> we'll see tomorrow when he gets here as far as practicing and preparing for the game. we'll go from there. just like any other player. we'll see how he participates in practice. >> if he participates fully and practices the way you want him to, he'll play on sunday? >> he'll play on sunday. >> i'm sorry. he's appealing and he's going to see his lawyer and gets a personal day and that's happening. >> he's a franchise player. he gets paid over $13 million a year. tease key to their defense. and basically what they are saying is if you're really, really good then it's okay. unlike the san francisco case this guy, sam stein, convicted of beating up this woman, throwing her on a couch filled with guns, tossing her into a

shower, choking her and then threatening to kill her and he is possibly playing in this weekend's game. what does the nfl not get? this guy has been convicted. >> well, what's remarkable, the biggest, the most remarkable thing it took the emergence of a video to get nfl to even react in a slight way to increase the punishment from two games to eight and i think that says a lot about how systemic this issue has been for a long time, how willing the league has been willing to turn a blind eye to it. >> it's a cultural problem with nfl. >> the fans are very complicit in this. the fans return to the league time and time again knowing, they are reading this stuff in the newspapers and it's not just the nfl. nfl right now is in focus. but this is something the nba deals with, something that major league baseball deals with.

the phillies in 2006 started brett myers after he was arrested for beating his girlfriend in the street in boston and said -- they started him 36 hours later. for the slaination, quote he's our best pitcher. it's all about winning. >> does the culture change? >> i like to say yes, but i can't be sure. i would love to know how many women executives there are in the nfl. was there anybody -- there was a woman in the room when these decisions were being made. that would be the an interesting question. i venture to say if it were it was a small number of them. i also -- the carolina panthers i keep going back to this, were waiting for the legal process to play out. the court spoke. he was convicted. why is he back on the field. it makes no sense. i heard in the last week this is about the nfl protecting the shield. that's the term we heard. this isn't protecting the shield. this is terrible for the brand. this is destroying "the shield." protecting the shield is if you

beat up your wife is you're gone. we'll look into it but if you did it you're gone. >> if you punch and beat up your fiancee with bruises on her arms even in that case listen we got to wait and see how this plays out and see what the court says but we'll send you home. we'll pay you. and then when the court decides whether you're guilty or not then we'll make our decision. but we can't have you on the field. >> you're making sense and the problem is so many -- there's so many layers of tone deafness here. >> don't act so shocked here about making sense. >> why did you have to pause? >> i think my point is this makes sense. this is one plus one equals two. the problem here is a cultural one. again, i talk about them being tone deaf on this video. but even on all levels of this, for weeks and weeks now this has

been bubbling over and yet the pre-game show is rihanna. really? really? rihanna? >> never occurred to anybody until like yesterday that this could be a bad idea. >> she was doing this for a while on tv, talking about things. you know, sometimes i remember during the o.j. trial, even, you know, everybody was running o.j. 24/7, te 24/7, even the broadcast networks. they are chasing after ratings. i was looking what was happening with isis, and i was thinking should we talk about isis or should we talk about the nfl? and the conclusion i came to very simple. if you want to talk about what's going to touch more americans day in and day out and day in and day out, it's domestic violence. it happens every day. this is why this is so critical.

you have the most powerful sports -- the most powerful sports league in the world. it's actually allowing gladiators that weigh 300 pounds to pummel women who weigh less than half of them. so i have to ask the question how does the nfl allow a guy play for the panthers this weekend who has already been convicted of beating the hell out of a woman? >> i can't imagine how. >> they just can't. >> i can't imagine. i think that's another account in the indictment against roger goodell because a commissioner would step in. i mean -- exactly. imagine -- you mentioned the nba has its problems, has to deal with this issue. every institution in society has to deal with this issue. i'm trying to imagine david stern in this situation. and i think he would be taking action. >> roog goodell makes over $40

million a year. he should earn some of that salary. >> we'll hear from the owner of the carolina panthers in just a second. i'll bring in nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd. before we get to all the other political news and foreign policy chuck i want to play for you, this is one of the owners of the carolina panthers speaking two nights ago at an awards ceremony and you can see this is beginning to really seep into the ether of the organization as a whole and for some people tearing them apart. >> i would be remiss if i do not acknowledge an issue weighing heavily on our sport and our society. many when it comes to domestic

violence my stance is not one of indifference. i stand firmly against domestic violence plain and simple. to those who would suggest we've been too slow to act, i ask that you consider not be too quick to judge. over the course of our 25 years, 20 years, we have worked extremely hard to build an organization, integrity and trust from your community.

>> i won't suggest the panthers have been too slow to act. i'm going to say the panthers have been too slow to act. this owner -- by the way, he won the award against indifference. and he got that award on a wednesday, four days after he allowed his franchise player who he pays $13.1 million a year, who was arrested and convicted and charged with beating the hell out of a woman. let him play in a game. it seems to me that jerry richardson and the panthers can begin to show a little integrity by telling this player you cannot play on sunday. in fact, given what's happened we're going to have to release you from the panthers. >> dwell ravens owner did that. >> yes. >> the ravens owner at the end of the day after all that happened on monday, they actually -- he acted.

jerry richardson. >> he was great. >> he did the right thing at the time. i don't think anybody has been great here, let's not throw that word around i guess at this point. but he did the right thing. that scene there with jerry richardson, if you didn't know the greg hardy thing, okay that seems like some former nfl player who is now an owner, maybe he's taking this to heart, maybe he'll take that to roger goodell. you look at the greg hardy situation and you have to ask are those crocodile tears. was that real? was that an acting job. that was embarrassing. and how -- look i'll be surprised if greg hardy plays on sunday number one. >> i bet he does. >> willie brought up the bill simmons column. there's an extra irony comparing goodell to nixon. goodell's father essentially lost u.s. senate seat for bucking nixon.

for challenging nixon on the vietnam war, for being a republican the first republican senator essentially to come out at that time, during the nixon years, one of the early republican senators to be against the vietnam war, sort of challenging the establishment not being afraid of getting attacked and here's his son essentially learning all the wrong lessons. look, this stuff has been tied together a long time about how roger goodell has been sort of watching his dad go through losing his political career, has been nothing but mr. cautious in his professional life almost overlearning the lessons of watching his dad. >> a question on jerry richardson. he said to those who suggest we've been too slow to act i ask you to consider not be too quick to act. what do we mean to judge. he's a convicted player. we have to judge this. how could we not judge this. >> the tears don't mean anything. the player is still on the

field. you're upset about it but willing to let him play. i'll be interested to see if hardy plays on sunday how the fans react. one thing to cheer for your team but to cheer for a guy. will they still wear the jersey and still cheer for him. there are op-ed in the charlotte newspapers calling for him to be thrown off the team. >> he should be kicked off the team. >> he may be ultimately. it's harder than it sounds with the union and all the rest of it. if this all serves some purpose, if it serves your daughter and my daughter and your daughter seeing how this is how society reacts to domestic violence and we don't tolerate it and it's not okay and we won't celebrate people who do it there is some good that come out of it. >> let's hope so. that's the fear of every parent. >> chuck, who do you have on "meet the press" this weekend? >> we'll have the latest from the administration on what they are doing trying build this

coalition but i'll have jim baker, the last guy to successfully build a middle east coalition. haven't heard from his voice in a while that will be interesting. plus hillary clinton is doing her first trip to iowa so we got somebody who wants to challenge her on the show. >> all right. thank you chuck. that's going to be fantastic. still ahead on "morning joe" 60 years after his death the first african-american rhodes scholar and architect of the harlem renaissance has yet to be laid to rest. we'll explain why next. the nfl's worst tipper shows no remorse for giving a 20 cent tip. and then one of the world's richest men is stepping up in a big way to stop the spread of ebola. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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we want to take a look at the morning papers. from our parade. pafers "the washington post" from a new report the u.s. government threatened to fine yahoo! $250,000 a day if it refused to hand over user data. in courts documents the company argued the request was unconstitutional but yahoo! lost its legal battle and became one of the first companies to provide information to the prism program. >> wow. >> u.s. today doctors say third american infected with the virus in west africa has been improving. it could be thanks to some inventive measures. the doctor received two flood transfusions from survivor dr. kent brantly. brantly flew there to donate his

blood. microsoft co-founder paul allen's foundation will donate $9 million to support u.s. efforts to battle the outbreak of ebola. the funds will help establish cdc centers in guinea, liberia and sierra leone. >> "philadelphia inquirer," a restaurant called out sean mccoy on monday for leaving a 20 cent tip on a bill for more than $60. mccoy addressed the incident yesterday calling the low tip a statement. he said quote you can't disrespect somebody and expect them to tip you. i don't care who the person is that's why i left my card so they could see my name. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. of course we showed the picture there of -- >> maybe something happened we don't know about. >> the good samaritan, charlie sheen. >> right. what else do we have. >> "anchorage daily news" police

in alaska confirmed sarah palin and her family were present at a party where a drunken brawl broke out over the weekend. happened during a birthday party for her husband todd. the palins were at the center of it. some accounts have daughter bristol palin punching a couple of guys and todd palin nursing a bloody nose. police are still reviewing the case. >> okay. here with us now from washington, senior writer for "the washington post," frances sellers. she writes in the upcoming issue of "the washington post" magazine about an architect of the harlem renaissance and first african-american rhodes scholar. herpes reads in part almost two decades ago, be locke's ashes arrived in a container the size of a coffee can that was delivered to howard university inside a crumpled bag. if he knew all that he would

indeed be rolling in his grave. if he had one this weekend 60 years after his death, locke is finally being given a resting place. >> locke's ashes were given to his close friend who looked after them. it wasn't until after fossett died that his niece took the ashes. she's a 91-year-old woman living in detroit and passed them along to a good friend of hers who worked in the old african-american churches in philadelphia and sadie mitchell who is now 93 they decided to give the ashes to howard since locke was a long time professor there. >> tell us about why this man is

so significant in american history. >> he is referred to as the father, as mid wife of the harlem renaissance. he put together the anthology, the new negro that was so influential in building this movement. his name is not well-known, he really was, as he said the philosophical mid wife who lived in washington. stayed on at howard and much loved professor there. >> gene robinson jump in. >> so, why was he forgotten, frances? he did play a huge role in this amazing african-american cultural movement. >> right. >> so why did we forget about him? >> i think some of the reason was he was an academic. he was behind the people telling the stories that we all

remember. and he lived a quiet life as an academic in some ways at howard. he was a promoter of this enormously influential movement. i talked to his biographer that talked about his work as a philosopher. if you were a philosopher and you were white your work was read as philosophy. if you were black it was read within the construct much race. it says a lot about that period in history. >> this is in the new issue of "the washington post" magazine. that's a fascinating story. we'll have you back, frances. still ahead you know him from the good wife and sports night. josh charles is here. plus the real story behind dr. martin luther king, jr.'s final year. tavis smyly has that next for us. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm

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>> you were a great man sam stein. sam is doing his part by dropping ray rice from his fantasy football league. >> thanks, sam. >> we need a change. >> he's not going to play any

more. >> this could be the tipping point. >> yesterday, we had tavis smyly on and afterwards i grabbed him i wanted to talk to him more about the book "death of a king." martin luther king, jr.'s last year. most americans had no idea. king did not die a popular man. we always look what happened in '63. we look at the letter from birmingham jail. we don't remember that the last year was absolutely dreadful for him. >> it was a bad period of his life. he was being pulled in multiple directions. a lot of people were impatient, wanted faster change. he was seen by other people as a dangerous radical. he himself was not satisfied with how far things had gotten. he was by many accounts i don't know if there was a clinical diagnosis he was depressed. it was a bad, bad period in his

life. and, you know, when we think back about dr. king we don't think about that one year, we think about the crux of his career, we think about i have a dream as we should. but that's what happened. >> unbelievable. here's tavis smiley talking about it in his new book "death of a king." >> a remarkable story about a remarkable life but a pretty darn tough last year. >> yeah. very tough. last poll taken in his life found 75% of the american people thought he was relevant. 60% of black people thought he was irrelevant. hard to imagine given the monuments and holidays and postage stamp -- >> how could that be? this is a man that most of us consider to be one of the two or three most important people in the 20th century. in his last year most americans considered him irrelevant.

>> it's easy to celebrate dead month tiers. much more difficult to deal with the sub severiveness of the truth he was trying tell. he comes out of the war in vietnam. >> it's time for president johnson, and all the others around washington to admit that we made a terrible mistake in vietnam. one of the greatest mistakes ever made in history. >> so let's put this in context. how unpopular was martin luther king, jr. when he died? >> the best way for us to understand that is martin luther king, jr.'s popularity ratings his disapproval numbers was as high as george bush when he left the white house. >> why? >> we all know what his numbers were when he left. that's how bad martin luther king, jr.'s numbers were. >> was it all about vietnam? >> it was about vietnam. for the country at large. >> what about african-americans? >> inside the black community there were two things at work. elite negroes were mad at him because he got into it with

lyndon johnson and they were afraid he would make it worst for all of them. johnson was the best friend the blacks had since the days of slavery. so king was out of step with one group of black following and out of touch with another group of black folk. >> what kind of personal impact did it have on a man who was the conquering hero five years earlier, extraordinary march on washington, to have his own people turn on him five years late center. >> it was tough. at moments he was s a despondent. when you feel the death angel hanging hovering he knew there was a bullet with his name on it. >> like anybody i would like to live a long life, longevity has

its place. but i'm not concerned about that now. i just want to do god's will. and he's allowed me to go up to the mountain. >> i think so many americans teach our children about martin luther king, jr. as an example of somebody that has courage and is able to bend history. but this is a really dark side to this story. and how tragic. >> yeah. >> it was the final year of his life. >> tragic because when he dies -- i think about this every day. when martin dies he really does believe that he's alone because he is. everybody has turned on him. even his own inner circle. a tough way to go out. the beautiful part of the story all the hours of surveillance, wiretapping, not one time has he ever heard contest that he's mad another individual, demonizing anybody. the point that love ethic he

talked about that was part of his dna he was that way when the camera was on, when the camera was off. this guy was the real deal. >> what did you learn? >> he's my hero. number two and he was public servant not a perfect servant so his frailties and shortcomings are not hidden in this text. but thirdly i dedicate the book to him as america's greatest democratic small d, america's greatest democratic public intellectual. when people read the book they may come to the same conclusion. martin was the greatest because what he had done in that last year to stand in his truth when everybody else turned on him. >> isn't that unbelievable. >> looks like a great book. >> everybody else turned on him. willie they didn't teach us that in school. >> a new chapter. tavis was on yesterday. i took the book home and read it last night. there's so much new in there

that runs contrary to what we think we know about martin luther king, jr. in that last year. an amazing book. >> up next democrats scandal on the wrong election year issue. and we'll talk to ken burns about his new documentary on the roosevelts. all this week we've been asking you about this family dynasty. today, how many major bills did franklin d. roosevelt sign within the first 100 davis his first term of president. >> that's easy. >> we'll reveal the answer in a bit. we'll give a shout out tweet to the first person to answers that correctly at #rooseveltspbs. before the names "theodore," "eleanor,"

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>> stir, we're fighting isis. why can't you get their name right. >> the terror group named isil. isil. isil. >> now i agree that they are acting like a bunch of isils. [ applause ] but, sir, technically, technically it's isis. if you just slam an l on the end of words willy-nilly whenever you want you'll make a mistake. you'll think you you're bombing syria and instead booming cereal, which i support by the way. sony kookoo is a man who ought to be brought to justice. >> mike allen here. how democrats may have misfired by using tax inversion as a

mid-term talking points. i thought people cared about that especially with wages. >> the president was all fired up about this. this was supposed to be the silver bullet for fall a populace issue that would work for the white house, would work for senate democrats. what they are finding is that you need a clear poster child for an issue like this. it's complicated. you can call them corporate deserters. of course companies trying to relocate their headquarters to save money on taxes. but the big example was supposed to be burger king, the whopper as an example. warren buffett said no he understood the reasons for that. he's an ally of the white house. so mika the reason this isn't working is a, people say they don't really understand it. but b, there's no clear solution. the president was hoping to make a centerpiece of his fall economic plan a solution to this but it turns out a lot of things he would do are either illegal or would make it more

complicated. so democrats are looking for new ways to talk about it. republicans are saying this just makes their point that we need a new tax code. >> right. okay. bad strategy or bad execution? >> i don't think it's a bad strategy to go after corporate deserters. if you're going drive the point you got to drive the point hard and you can't be in the middle. and i think the president's problem with this wall street approach is, you know, you stick your foot in the water and then wall street howls. you either go all in or stay all out. >> tax inversions, that's not going to get anybody out. it has to be -- it's kind of bloodless. >> mike allen, thank you. >> mike, you have to save for us. happy what >> happy friday and happy birthday this week to alex coreson. >> his birthday.

>> okay. still ahead an army of makeup free women. nice. why one designer decided to go au natural in fashion week. up next fresh off its north american premier at the toronto international film festival, actor josh charles is here with his new film bird people. more "morning joe" in just a moment. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you see everyone in america almost every day, you notice a few things. like the fact that you're pretty attached to these. ok, really attached. and that's alright. because we'll text you when your package is on the way. we're even expanding sunday package delivery. yes, sunday.

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look, if it's the stress, you can -- i don't know, stop the business trips. take some time off. i'm serious. you can take a few months off, if you like. just don't do this. i can't be the only one saying this. what does elizabeth say? >> i don't know. >> what, you haven't told her? >> no. i'm calling her later. >> wait, wait, gary, when you say that you're leaving everything behind, you're not coming back, are you leaving

elizabeth too? >> yes, everything means everything. >> wow. >> that was a clip from "bird people." here with us now, co-star of the film and golden globe and emmy-nominated actor josh charles. >> good to have you on. >> we have so much we want to talk about. let's start with robin williams. a lot of people first met you in "dead poets society." from everything i hear, an extraordinary man, a sweet, gentle man. >> absolutely, well said. i've been asked, you know, obviously since his passing about my experiences with him. it was an incredible time for me professionally, personally. he was all of that. and i think what i took most from him was the fact that while he was the first bona fide star i had ever interacted with, he made great effort to just be one of the ensemble in the film and treated all of us, all of us young kids really kindly. >> we actually have a clip before we move forward and talk about what you're doing now.

let's look back. special moments with robin williams. here is the clip from "the dead poets society." >> you mean it was a bunch of guys sitting around reading poetry? >> no, it wasn't just guys. it wasn't a greek organization. we were romantics. we didn't just read poetry, we let it drip from our tongues like honey. spirits soared. women swooned. and gods were created, gentlemen. not a bad way to spend an evening, eh. >> we were talking about it, they actually had color film in 1917. it seems like such a long time ago. >> stop. >> it's true. >> it's amazing what makeup -- >> so i have just gotten over your -- the demise of your character on "the good wife." >> just now? >> there's so much going on in the world, but really that's -- >> jean gene is so upset. we've been talking about isis but -- >> what was he thinking when he

defended that guy? but never mind. never mind. moving on. >> tell us about the new movie. win seems fascinating. >> the movie's great. made the film two years ago. it's a brilliant french director, her fourth movie in 20 years. she really -- if she's making a film, she deeply lives it in every finer of her being. it's a film really that takes place in the world today but it's also about the world today. it's about how the more expected we are, literally, with our smart phones and everything, the more emotionally disconnected we can become. the sense of alienation, loneliness. it's also about people living authentic lives. the importance of connectivity between two beings. it follows two stories. my own story and another story played by a young french actress. these two hi bid stories kind of parallel. one's much more realistic. one's much more supernatural. >> you really saw the emptiness. just a complete -- >> you just see that in general -- >> no, you do it well. >> let's not confuse.

when people look at me, they see shallowness. that's different from the emotional emptiness that we saw -- >> exactly. >> this had to be exciting, such a great director, but also you had a really unique opportunity seeing this movie fresh again. tell us why. >> the film took -- i finished my portion of the film two years ago. then there was a lot more to shoot with a lot of this extra footage. i don't want to spoil anything. there was a long post production process with a lot of special effects and that took quite a long time. first time in my career i made a film and had to wait two years to see it. i got to see it for the first time right before cannes and then in cannes with fresh eyes, almost as if i forgot a lot of it. it was really exciting. >> were you okay with it? >> did you go, god, that sucked? >> i always say that about myself the first time i see it. after i've seen myself once or twice, i'm ready to not see

that. >> that's not >> i won't be watching this interview. >> oh, you're going to watch it. >> sit recorded right now and i'll watch it about 17 times. >> you can watch "bird people" -- >> it's opening today in new york and then l.a. also, on demand. if you're not in these cities or if you're really lazy, which i'd be, joe, you have no excuse, you can watch this at home. >> can i watch this tonight? are you kidding me? at home? i will be watching this. i'm going to e-mail you in two years and tell you what i thought about it. where do you hang out, where do you live? okay, come back here, sit around and just talk with us. >> love it. >> don't have to even have a movie to do it. >> that would be fun. coming up at the top of the hour, more conflicting reports the nfl had a very clear picture of what happened between ray rice and his wife in that hotel

elevator. and then, two teenage girls flee their homes in vienna to join isis? is this the enemy that we're about to go to war with? next on "morning joe." before we go to break, we've got that answer. i know. earlier this hour -- >> can you leave that -- we're still shocked, these two young beautiful girls from austria have fled and it's apparently a problem in austria. a lot of young girls being recruited and leaving to join isis. >> it's horrible. >> here's the question. how many major bills president franklin d. roosevelt signed within the first 100 days of his first term. >> he didn't get much done -- >> answer to that question is 15. >> he said 4 for the record. >> the first person to send us that correct response, congratulations. coming up, filmmaker ken burns joins us on set with his new documentary "the roosevelt, an intimate history." before the names "theodore," "eleanor,"

and "franklin" were indelibly etched into the american consciousness. and the course of human history was forever changed by their individual endeavors. a prominent family made a point of teaching the value of altruism, the power of perseverance, and the virtue of helping out one's fellow man.

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a broad american leadership is the one constant in an uncertain world. it is america that has the capacity and the will to mobilize the world against terrorists. but as americans, we welcome our responsibility to lead. the strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us while supporting partners on the front lines is one that we have successfully pursued in yemen and somalia for years. >> i don't know if you want to

cite a successful anti-terror strategy that we've been pursuing for years. it's like peppy lepew citing his successful strategy of relentless cat stalking. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful morning in washington. sam stein still with us. along with eugene robinson. joining the conversation, the bbc correspondent in washington, "washington post" bob woodward joining us. >> if you look at the front page, the headline talks about how the arab countries give, quote, tepid support to fight the u.s. against isis. jeffrey sachs came on and said barack obama really screwed upped by not getting support first. do you have governments that don't want to be going out waving the american flag with

guns blazing? it is a risk for them in their own home. >> for example, countries like arab countries, turkey has a problem because it has 49 hostages in the hands of isis so they don't want to be seen in a covert military operation. they might give some covert support. they might allow logistics to be organized in country. then countries like saudi arabia. they really prefer to go after assad. that's been their main goal from the beginning. they've been very upset with the u.s., that the u.s. doesn't do more to help on the ground. so there are divisions within the arab -- >> that's complicated. >> what about the generals in egypt? >> the generals in egypt are saying they have their own terrorism to deal with. and that's where there is some concern about the strategy that the president outlined. it's very focused on counterterrorism. and in countries in the arab world like egypt, like jordan, like saudi arabia, the idea of fighting terrorism is seen as a

way of clamping down on dissent, internal dissent. it's used as an excuse. so, in fact, it could make the problems worse because authoritarian attitudes, author ta authoritarian rule, feed fanaticism. >> the israeli official said isis. we're not concerned about isis. is there a possibility, because of the two gruesome beheadings that we saw, and i guess everybody that follows this says it's been the most followed story online in five years. is it possible we are overreacting to the threat of isis and middle east -- some of these middle eastern countries are just saying grow up? >> well, i think there is something very concerning that is take place in the arab world. but perhaps, yes, in online debates and on television, there's a sense this has been blown out of proportion. they're not invisible, these guys, these barbarians really

who are running the islam inic state. a little further east of pakistan, for example, where the taliban were able to gain and hold territory, it changes the nature of society, the fabric of society. the longer -- i come from lebanon, a country where, you know, we don't like these kinds of things. we've had our own wars. we've had our political short comings. but this is very alien to us. it's very alien to people in syria. a lot of foreigners coming in. you have members of the islamic state who say syria is not for the syrians. the longer they're allowed to stay, the longer they're allowed to change the fabric of society and that's a problem. >> the briefings from the white house this week, the problem, as i see it, the establishment and the permanence of what some commentators have called a jihadi-stan in the middle of the

middle east. that's the problem, it's not that they're going -- people are going to come to behead us here on the set of is "morning joe" and it's not that -- >> but that's the thing -- >> -- invincible, it's what does that mean for the -- >> but there's an incredible paranoia right now about our insecurity, especially our borders, and about this notion that isis can attack us. every intelligence agency in our government have said they do not pose an innemminent threat. >> being, mika, again, the question is -- yesterday i talked about, you know, taking the negligence course, the tort course, they teach you the but for. but for x happening, would we have had an incident. i'm sorry, but for the two beheadings, i find it very hard to believe the president would have been on the air the other night talking about going to war again. >> he truly does understand the

gravity of this and how long this is going to go, well beyond -- >> that's what i want to ask bob woodward. >> there's the assad issue, which is complicated. but bob woodward, do you feel the white house is under or everestimating just how long and arduous this is going to be? >> in olympic dive, they not only give a score but a degree of difficulty multiple. if you look at this, the degree difficulty could not be harder. there's discussion this morning and rightly so about obama is the reluctant warrior. he's gone public. he's made it very clear, there's no ambiguity, we're going to destroy these people. i think 25 years ago, bush senior, a couple of days after

the iraqi -- saddam hussein invaded kuwait, he came out and he said, this will not stand. obama has declared his "this will not stand." we are going to destroy this group. you talk to the military people. and i think everyone is on board with the strategy. i think there is immense skepticism about how this might be done. you use u.s. air power and troops from other countries. that's not the way the u.s. military likes to work. >> you look at so many of the questions surrounding the president's strategy. at the center of it obviously has to do with arming these so-called moderate syrian rebels. kim, one senior analyst called it a, quote, myth, that there was somehow a group out there that was going to be able to rise up against assad. >> armable. >> that's what the president's been saying from the beginning,

so it's a little strange he now thinks this is his way to handle isis. >> i tried to bring that up yesterday. david ignatius, your colleague, shot me down. >> he's been the chief skeptic of the white house. >> absolutely -- >> i just want to say something about destroying isis. you know, the u.s. has spent a lot of time and effort trying to destroy al qaeda. these groups -- i think that's the wrong term. i think what we need to -- the administration, countries in the acrab world need to think about is this an opportunity to take another look at how you end the syrian conflict. because you can't really destroy groups like that, but you can try to take another look at how you end the syrian conflict. and i don't see anything apparent in the president's strategy at this moment about how that could be the end game. because the way you roll back isis or the islamic state or isil, as the president calls

them, is first i think by addressing the syrian conflict. which is how this started. >> want to foe what you make of this. officials in austria are concerned that two teenage girls who fled it is country to join isis are now recruiting other young people to do the same thing. officials say that the 15-year-old and 16-year-old vanished from their homes in vienna two years ago. wasn't long before they started posting pictures on social media appearing fully radicalized wearing hijabs. even the photo of her posing with two other jihadists. austrian officials say they stopped two other teenage girls who were trying to skip the country to join isis. kim, what are you hearing about this kind of thing? is this very isolated and almost sort of the salacious side the story? are we looking at something that could be pervasive around the world? >> we've already seen it in the west, out of america, obviously

coming out of great britain. >> we've seen it before, we've seen it with the afghan war, standing up against the soviets in the '80s where a lot of arabs joined, you know, thousands. >> does anything seem different about this? >> well, ways different is the numbers. i think probably it's also highlighted by the fact you have more access to this information. it is on social media. it is aggressive recruiting by these groups. i was watching some of their recruitment videos last night. they're eloquent. they make their case in a very powerful way. and if you feel alienated as a muslim, second generation muslim in europe, if you're looking for purpose, if you're not quite sure what your aim in life is, that's what a lot of these people have in common. >> they do have tremendous grasp of social media, it's remarkable. on the point of the syrian opposition and the moderates we're trying to arm. quote from the german ambassador about why they won't send arms

to the -- he said, quote, we can't really control the final destination of these arms. bob, from your reporting, how confident is the united states that the weapons we send to these moderate factions are actually going to stay with these moderate factions? >> there's no guarantee here. and of course, this problem of recruitment, you wind up fueling what you're trying to avoid. a very muscular declaration by the president that we are going to destroy you. now isis is the number one enemy and people -- jihadists or people who have this inclination say, okay, i'm going to sign up, and the cia itself has publicly put out numbers saying the group has gone from 10,000 to 20,000, maybe to over 30,000, just over the summer. so, again, you add that to the degree of difficulty and obama

has bought himself and, you know, he is the reluctant warrior. i was thinking back 25 years ago, the original modern reluctant warrior was colin powell. he said, okay, the president, in that case, bush, has decided on more, and powell's out there, very famously saying, how do you deal with this iraqi army. you surround it and you kill it. obama said essentially the same thing, we're going to kill it. >> you've obviously coverrd a lot of scandals. something that bill simmons said this morning, great writer for espn. talking about the ravens dustup other ray rice. he said -- i never thought i'd

say this, but bill simmons said this feels like nixon all over again. somebody pointed out the irony that roger goodell's father lost a political race for being a republican that went against nixon. boy, it's hard to believe that an organization as powerful as the nfl could botch this as badly as it has. >> maybe there's secret tapes also within the nfl organization. but this isn't nixon. at this point, for a number of years, i've been urging people to do a big examination of the nfl. it's the money power, it's the cultural power, it's, you know, the power of sports. you go through an airport on a sunday fight and see people gathered around. i remember the first time i saw this, i thought, oh, there must be some crisis. of course, the crisis was an nfl

football game. it has taken over part of people's lives. it really needs to examined and maybe this is the thread on the sock that will get we reporters off our butts and say, look at the whole thing, how it's run, the money that these teams make and the owners. i've talked to some of the owners and they have the biggest smiles on their faces because it's astronomical and they bought these teams, in many cases, for low prices, and they are, you know, they're fortunes unto themselves. >> okay, you know, think the nfl hearing that should be very worried. because it means bob woodward is coming. >> hey, that's what i just heard. i would be very worried if i owned an nfl team. >> how do you -- again, we talked about it, you know, the panthers owner two nights ago

sobbing, saying, you know, after winning some award for being against indifference. >> that was for work in the community. >> but you allowed a guy convicted for beating a woman, throwing her into the shower, choking her, threatening to kill her, playing game. >> playing a game. >> and asking through those tears for us not to judge that. >> it's hard not to judge. >> and it's the -- if i may say, it's the power of the video again. and, as joe has been saying for a number of days, the videos of these beheadings are the triggering event for the president. and so, you know, it's not just the audio, it's the video. and people see it and it changes minds. >> yeah, it really does. >> coming up on "morning joe," inside one of the most dynamic families. an american history. the roosevelts. a new ken burns documentary.

plus, dr. henry kissinger will explain how to win the ideological war against isis. up next, one man's quest to get the car of his dreams. how far would you go for a $250,000 ferrari? first, here's bill karens with a check on the forecast. >> i'd go pretty far. no dare, no dares please. let me show you fascinating video yesterday. call it a tail of two worlds. memphis, yesterday morning, we had flash flooding. we had water rescues. we had a lot of flash flooding this week, starting from phoenix, right across the country with this storm system. behind this storm is frigidly cold air. this is the scene from rapid city, south dakota, yesterday. eariest snow on record. it accumulated. there were some downed tree limbs. luckily, not too many power outages. that cold air mass is moving across the country. it snowed last night in denver

and in bolder. 34 degrees there. it's 32 in green bay. the cold air is in place. a lot of rain still in north texas with a dance of flash flooding. also, watch out in south florida. a tropical disturbance. that we may need to deal with in the gulf. for the weekend, beautiful in new england, nasty day today from kig to the midwest. new england on saturday's not going to be so nice with that rain and showers. but sunday looks to be a lot better around much of the country and the final thing i'll tell you is that the northern lights, the aurora borealis will be spectacular tonight. it could be a great scene if you're out there late this evening. we leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. on a spectacular morning. what if there was a credit card where the reward was that new car smell

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hi, are we still on for tomorrow? tomorrow. quick look at the weather. nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. driven to preserve the environment, csx moves a ton of freight nearly 450 miles on one gallon of fuel. what a day. can't wait til tomorrow.

in new york city, another glamorous fashion week is coming to a close. we sent a crew to lincoln center where some of the runway shows were held. we asked people coming in and out about designers and trends and events that do not exist. >> what about betsy ross, have you heard of betsy ross? >> yes, i love it. >> love betsy ross? bright colors, primary colors. >> yes, it's awesome. the way it lays with the colors, everything about lines. >> what about bartels and james? >> oh, great as well. >> fantastic? sparkling and effervescent? >> very elegant. >> teddy rukspin?

what about and ni scalia? >> oh, yes. >> what about phil robertson? >> phil robertson is beyond one of my favorites as well. >> he really burst on to the scene a few years ago. >> that is fantastic. actually, after we do pieces, i have a piece. milly. michelle smith. we went to all of her stores and places where she creates her beautiful dresses. and also to her -- >> do you think the palins -- >> no, i don't. let's go to our papers. >> this is like, this story about this brawl, palin and kids have a brawl. no, no, it's unbelievable. >> in drunk -- >> the backwards brawling began we the clan rolled up to the soiree in a stretch hummer. the birthday.

no, it goes on. at one point, bristol unleashed a, quote, flurry of blows. she fell down. dragged outside. an alaska political blogger said palin yelled, don't you know would i am? and a party goer responded this isn't some damned hillbilly reality show. >> no, it's not. >> all right, that's from "the new york post." >> let's go to the parade of papers. >> just the best stories today. >> star ledger. two adults and more than two dozen day care students are recovering after accidentally ingesting bleach. a kitchen worker accidentally -- >> oh, come on, come on, don't say this. >> filled cups from a milk gallon container refilled with water and bleach. 28 children and two teachers were taken to the hospital and later released. the kitchen worker's been fired. >> these stories. everybody's okay. but these stories. like, when i leave my kids in the morning, i just need to just

stay home and lock the doors. >> you keep your kids in a bubble, they're perfect. >> i do not keep my kids in a bubble. >> he made jack wear a helmet. >> for a good one. >> while walking or biking? >> jack kept falling on his head on the wood floor. after the second trip to the emergency room, i said if this child falls one more time, i'm going to put a football helmet -- no, we did, for two weeks. i was making a point. >> he got wall to wall carpeting and a helmet for the boy. >> i got very angry. >> just wrap his head in bubble wrap. >> he did. >> the thing is, you take your kid -- like with a knot out to here to the emergency room. the kid kept falling. he's doing fine. >> a mouth guard. >> it didn't have a mouth guard. it was like one of these 1930, you know, helmets. anyway. a los angeles man's accused of stealing the same ferrera twice. saying he sped away from a dui checkpoint and later ditched the

sports car. it was later located and placed in an impound lot. police say hooks broke into the lot the very next day and stole the car again. after a five-day joy ride, he was finally tracked down and arrest. if at first you don't succeed -- >> he steals it a third time, they should just give it to him. >> all right, designer mark jacobs ended fashion week with a bang, sending his models down the runway without makeup. models walked the cat walk having only applied moisturizer. jacobs had the idea to emphasize the army themed clothing of the show. >> i like it. >> all right. >> speaking of fashion week. >> speaking of fashion week, convinced from an early age that a career in fashion was her calling, michelle smith, the co-founder of milly, went to the classrooms of the fashion institute to the store fronts on madison avenue. and i had a chance to catch up with the designer to hear her story.

♪ >> decide where you're at in terms of your vision. >> i feel like i'm living my own version of the american dream. i always knew what wanted to do. if i had a free moment, there was always a pen and paper in my hand. >> so what do you think the biggest influences were on developing the milly style? >> it's a product of my experiences. i trained at hermez and christian dior and louis vuitton but i couldn't afford that clothing and i wanted a beautiful luxurious collection that was bold and feminine but that i could actually afford or at least work really hard and be able to buy the pieces.

>> what are some of the things you sort of likein er terms of the message now that you're building such a big brand? >> i believe that women can be extremely successful in business, control their own destiny, be entrepreneurs and, you know, i just think i'm living proof. you have to pay your dues. you have to really struggle to really appreciate it and to succeed. my first part-time job was at the gap folding sweaters. and i got really bored with that. i look back, you know, to living on pasta for a year fondly. because i couldn't afford any other food. >> so the women who wear your clothes range from beyonce to alice and williams, kate middleton, gwyneth paltrow, soph sophia ver garro. that's is up a broad range.

>> there's always that aprobable element. women don't feel alienated by my clothes. i think they enjoy them. fashion should be fun. >> it's almost like you have a synergy between your work life and your family life. you work with your husband. you guys leave at the same time every day. >> we do. >> and go home togethering. >> we do. luckily, everyone says, how can you do that? >> how can you do that? >> how can you live? how can you survive? we started milly when we were just dating. i'm very creative. my husband has a great financial mind and business mind. and it works very well for us. >> and all made in the usa? >> yes, made in the usa. everything's actually made right here in new york city. >> really? >> yeah. >> within a five-block radius of my office. i keep maybe eight to ten factories busy and humming all year round. >> i've seen t-shirts or something that says "sorry for partying." >> sorry for partying came from the kids in my office honestly. i'm like, we need some fun

t-shirts with some slogans, what do you think? sorry for partying came up. >> you have dresses, handbags. >> children's wear. swim wear. evening wear. the each nick wear collection. >> shoes? >> possibly in the future. will you help me with that? let's do some research. >> very nice. michelle smith. went to her show at fashion week. we had a slew of teenagers. the diversity of women would like her clothes is fantastic. i'm going to have my own show of blue sweaters. every single day. all right, coming up next, from franklin and the new deal, the rough riders. ken burns new documentary has it all. we have a first look at that. it's the best thing he has done to date. but first, the son of one of

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arrested. this was his first arrest. he never been in interrogation. and not to know ways going on is worse than anything. >> deep in my heart, i was really terrified. he had a smile on his face that told me that we know, then said, your father was here and he was a tough guy. are you a tough guy? do you want to be tough or do you want to talk? and i was, like, i have nothing to talk about. and he start to laugh. he told me -- [ speaking foreign language ] welcome to the slaughterhouse. >> that was a clip from "the green prince." here with us now, the son of a hamas leader who later turned into israel's prized intelligence source. and his handler. they're both featured in the documentary "the green prince."

>> you grew up obviously hating israel. >> yes. >> what happened? >> you know, as a child, i saw reality through the lens of a child. it was difficult for me to discern truth from falsehood. >> right. >> we witnessed lots of violence. my father was arrested when i was very young. and i did not understand it is dynamics of the palestinian politics. >> what was the turning point for you? when you decided to become israel's top source? >> yeah. well, it was not a decision. i had no choice. when i was in prison and i saw hamas brutality against our people, the palestinian people, they were torturing and killing our own people. i start to ask question about the real nature of the organization that my father established. >> right. >> and this was the turning point. >> you had one of the more remarkable moments in the film and in your life when you had to make a decision, when you found

out that your own father was targeted for possible assassination. what do you do in that situation? what did you do? >> well, not only my father, many hamas leaders were targeted when hamas launched suicide bombing attacks and killed hundreds of israelis. israel launched assassination campaign against hamas leaders. my father was on the top list. and it was not easy for me. because of my relationship with the israeli intelligence, my father and other hamas leaders, by the way, wrb saere saved. i insisted that i cannot take part of assassinating any human being, no matter what. >> you've said enlisting yusef was like enlisting the son of the israeli prime minister. what did he symbolize? >> at that time, we knew nothing about hamas. recruiting the son of one of hamas leaders helped us

understand what is hamas exactly. we didn't understand. you know, it was like getting into the minds, understanding the minds and the way the organization works. >> i was just wondering, you know, do you think this is such a level of stockholm syndrome going on here where you're in such close connection with the people who are integrating you that you identify with them? talk to us, if you can, about the very difficult choices that people have in the west bank and in gaza today, where they're kind of stuck between occupation and hamas. >> right. many innocent people are stuck in this situation. and i hope at some point they will awake and realize that the enemy is within. i would like to see palestinian new generation to fight against extremism. violence is not the way. israel is just another

democratic country in the region. we can definitely talk to them and learn from them and be friends with them. and this is an example. this is what i would like to see. >> we have another clip from the green prince, recounting the moment he was captured by israeli secret service. >> we want to recruit people like him. >> when i came to visit my mom, she told me that israeli forces came to our house. i could not share with her what i did. after i left the house, i see special forces coming out of the bushes, pointing the guns right to my face. they pulled me out and when i resi resisted, i start to receive hits from everybody.

>> the green police opens in theaters today in new york and los angeles. unbelievable. thank you so much. >> thank you very much. still ahead, he's taking on the civil war, prohibition and the game of baseball and now the rooseve roosevelts. ken burns join us next. then the obama doctrine. is the president's foreign policy the right one to defeat isis? henry kissinger in just a bit. all that and more when "morning joe" returns. i'm type e.

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and a firm belief that the united states had an important role to play in the wider world. both were hugely ambitious. impatient with the drab notion that the mere making of money should be enough to satisfy any man or nation. and each took unabatched delight in the great power of his office to do good. >> that was a clip from the roosevelts, an intimate history. legendary director of the documentary ken burns who was also co-author of the roosevelts which joe has already taken. >> it's online and i've already seen a lot of this with my daughter kate. i know you can't say this because they're all your children. i think -- i was blown away with the civil war. i was blown away by baseball. so many things you've done. i think this is the best thing uv ever done. >> you know these people are history, firing on all cylinders. we tend to segregate them

because theater was a republican and franklin was a democrat. this is the first time anybody's put all three together and seen this as the complicated family drama that it was. that's what we wanted to tell. foot just their strengths but their weaknesses and their wounds as well. these are three deeply flawed and deeply wounded people. who figure out how to overcome these wounds and then try to work on how they can get other people to get through it. that's their whole thing. we all do well when we all do well. >> we were talking about -- in the past, with past guests, about the key to life and success is getting up when you get knocked down. i think eleanor roosevelt has one of the saddest most stagic stories of any great figure in american life. and yet for women, you've got to put her at the top. >> absolutely. >> and she got through every one of those personal battles. there were so many. >> the family drama part of it, is that the intimate history?

>> that's the intimate part. we're interested today, what's the role of government. how does character form leadership? what does adversity have to do with the formation of that character and therefore that leadership. these are three wounded people. we know t.r.'s story, horrible loss of his wife and his mother in the same house on the same day. we know about the polio with franklin. he couldn't get out of the iowa caucuses today because he would be too infirmed, yet he carried us through. it's eleanor who is a miracle of the human spirit. to have the kind of childhood she did. her father, the president's brother, theodore's brother, died an alcoholic and mentally ill. her mother was this aloof beauty who called her granny. >> just terrible. >> and then they were dead by the time she was 10 and she was with pious relatives, abusive uncles. she should not have been who she was, the most consequential

first lady. >> mike. >> in addition to all the wounds, as you just described, the relationship that she had with her husband. at the same time, she served basically as a large part of her husband's conscience. >> i think she was right on everything except prohibition. you can give her a pass because her father was a hopeless alcoholic. her younger brother died in her arms of delirium tremens. but everything else, labor, immigration, all the things we debate, eleanor roosevelt was ahead of her time. >> how do you boil this down to this documentary? i think that would be really hard for you it there's a book that goes along with this. a huge passion project. >> it is a huge passion project. normally, we're taking big institutions like civil war, baseball and jazz to tell our big storyings. this is the first biography that's an extended biography.

i think it works. this is a kron chronology from he is born to when he dies. >> i love it. alice roosevelt. you tell this story. >> never anything but trouble. >> oh, crazy. >> never anything but trouble. my favorite story is a lunatic goes out on to her balcony, t.r. comes running out and there's a pistol and somebody asked, was he crazy, and he said, of course he was crazy, he wanted to marry alice. long worth unfortunately got that. but she was crazy. >> she was -- >> she was -- >> that's right, but let's put it back and unpack a little bit. she is the daughter born two days before her mother and her grandmother died in the same house. named after her mother alice who was the love of his life.

he ended up marrying the right woman, an old boyhood friend. but this girl, lets her be raised by his sister. she grows up with a chip on her shoulder. he never says the name "alice" again. i think this makes dramatic history when you understand the underpinning. >> this is amazing. >> i can't wait. that's at 8:00 p.m. kern burns, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> this is a must see. and this is mine. we'll be right back. (vo) ours is a world of passengers. the red-eyes. (daughter) i'm really tired. (vo) the transfers. well, that's kid number three. (vo) the co-pilots. all sitting... ...trusting... ...waiting... ...for a safe arrival. introducing the all-new subaru legacy. designed to help the driver in you...

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your tad's going to be very angry. >> why? >> because henry the "k" said the kissinger approach and the brzezinski approach, very similar. >> oh, don't say that. we recently sat down with dr. kissinger and we talked about his new book, "world order" and the changing landscape of the middle east. >> dr. kissinger, this is a follow-up to your remarkable book on china. are we coming into an age where we stop trying to export western democracy to the middle east and accept sometimes that generals in egypt may be the most orderly way forward?

>> of course we have a preference for our ideas. but we also have the necessity for security. so anybody can decide, what is changing the structure of the government that its dealing with. what the consequences are, if it turns out badly. >> the pentagon's confident they can get rid of isis militarily. that's the mechanics of it. is there a third facet, defeating an ideology? and how do you approach that? >> the ideology that isis represents is extreme version of original islam. and that has lasted in some form for well over 1,000 years.

so it's not only not easy, it has not been done yet at any period defeated ideologically what perhaps you can do to make their struggle so hopeless that the younger generation decides that they will invest idealism in something more constructive. >> the book is "world order." dr. henry kissinger, it's always good to see you. thank you very much for being on the show with us. >> i see you once every two years, but -- >> you watch every morning? >> i watch every morning that i'm in town, yes. >> i love it. all right, thank you so much. >> very long interview with dr. kissinger. obviously one of the great

minds. and we're putting the whole thing up on our website. make sure you watch it. it's going to be watched, i'm sure, by world leaders. >> my father's going to watch it and grumble. >> i'm sure he will. >> sam what did you learn? >> i learned that my grandfather wasn't the last person to wear checkered pants like that. >> i thought they were pajamas. gene. >> i learned being the commissioner of the nfl means more than just getting good teams on the field and putting on a good show. you have responsibility. i don't think goodell has fulfilled that responsibility. >> i expect a lot more to happen in the coming days. >> guys, thank you so much for watching us this week. we greatly appreciate it. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." but stick around, "the daily rundown" with kristen welker is next. have a great weekend.

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the case against isis grows more urgent and secretary kerry gets others to join in the effort. former olympian oscar pistorius found guilty of what a court calls culpable homicide. plus, bill and hillary clinton head back to iowa, a place that's not been political positive for them over the years. we'll get a prey viview from de moines. and a very good morning from