things and we love them for it. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. bad call, this is "hardball." good evening, this is chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this plague of violence in the nfl. and the deepening scandal involving its commissioner, tmz reporting late today that one of the league's biggest star, minnesota vikings running back adrian peterson has been indicted for child abuse. it comes on the heels of this bombshell report on nfl commissioner roger goodell. according to espn, baltimore ravens running back ray rice told goodell he had hit janay rice then his fiancee in the face inside a revell casino

hotel elevator in atlantic city, new jersey and knocked her unconscious." that happened back in june before a month before goodell suspended him for two games. nbc news' latest report something consistent with espn's. goodell is under tremendous pressure right now about why he waited until this week when tmz sports published that video to suspend him indefinitely. according to goodell it's because the information they had at the time of the suspension was too vague. here's goodell. >> when we make a decision we want to have all the information that's available and obviously that was -- when we met with ray rice and his representatives, it was ambiguous about what actually happened. >> in a letter obtained by espn goodell states that rice's version of events in that meeting were, quote, starkly different, closed quote than what we saw in that tape. well, the question is does it matter? can he survive the heat now.

sports reporter with the associated press reporting all this stuff and buzz is a pulitzer prize winning author out on the story in oregon tonight. buzz, i always want to hear what you have to say about the context. how do you look at this whole thing. i want your take on his performance, why he believed the rises and their representatives, whoever those pr people were, lawyers were and why he didn't believe what he saw on the tape of the guy -- the guy dragging his fiancee out of elevator and the police report saying she was knocked out by the punch? >> well, look, there are all sorts of signs and before june, you know, there was the police report saying that she had been knocked unconscious and that ray had done it. in february, it was reported that this tape did exist. that was reported by "sports illustrated." it's getting worse and worse and worse, the stink, because whatever goodell says or not -- didn't say, he should have

gotten a copy of that tape. when they vet draft picks, they will know the last time you had lunch and what you ate for dinner so in this case, the excuse, we couldn't get it, we couldn't find it, they didn't give it to us doesn't wash. it doesn't wash and, you know, goodell's in trouble. i think the owners like him and i think at the end of the day he's going to claim it was all semantic differences. what does it mean to strike unconscious? but it's stinking worse and worse. >> but the word ambiguous used with norah o'donnell on cbs, ambiguous, what do you think he was saying? what were people hearing when they heard ambiguous, meaning there was different testimony, the old grouchomarx. believe me or your lying eyes. there was a police report, a document, a primary source of information, a police report and yet he was believing weeks later some nice -- when they come in

cleaned up and telling nice stories and he believed it then? >> yeah, because, look, it's the nfl. they're soing a product. ray rice is a big-time player. didn't have a good year last year but he's pivotal to the ravens, you know, he could have suspended him indefinitely on the basis of what they knew was that she was struck unconscious. my guess is the difference will be strike unconscious, he'll say, i was never told they actually took a roundhouse. maybe he pushed her, maybe she fell to the elevator. it's going to be all the semantic bs. the fact of the matter is the nfl has objectified women for how many years. why do you have women cheerleaders? why do these teams have cheerleaders? it's about sex, objectification of women and they're also selling violence. they have a real opportunity to do something far beyond the sexual assault which is horrific. get the objectification out of the game but i don't think they'll do anything and, look, the biggest number you need to

know is 13. that was the rating, the share last night for the ravens and the steelers. people are football obsessed so the nfl is saying, we're bulletproof. nothing in the end is going to change the popularity of the game which mines benjamins and millions and billions in people's pockets. >> rob, back to you with the same point. i want you as a reporter on the game you watch people being interviewed from the ravens game last night all cheering for him, all these women, women, one after another woman saying let him stay. rice is great. forget about all this. this is nothing. forgive and forget. move on. this obsession with the next game, i guess it is. what is it? >> chris, you know, the most interesting quote that i heard last night and i was there and i was in the locker room was from tory smith, wide receiver on the ravens saying ray rice is still a gray guy, still a great person and if you take those two minutes of his life away he is a

mod the citizen. that's what his teammates believe. most of the teammates i spoke to rave about rice as a human being, as an individual. they are still friendly with him. they feel bad for him and for the situation. nobody, no one katulis condones anything that he did, but they're trying to say that this was an isolated incident and they love this guy and he's been a great, great teammate, a great member of the community and just a very well respected person in the entire city of baltimore so i did see a lot of female fans and a lot of male fans wearing a ray rice jersey last night and that says a lot about the way that he captured that city and had a big fan base. >> yeah, well, the san diego tribune and "usa today" track nfl arrests and they report that there have been at least 28 nfl players arrested this year since the super bowl and some of the charges include suspicion of felony domestic violence. driving under the influence, dui, drug possession, battery

and disorderly conduct. assaulting a police officer. aggravated assault. buzz, besides the treatment of women, is there a sort of bad boy aspect to football especially where it's part of the image of the sport that some of the players are just almost to the point of being dangerous guys? >> look, i think they're trying to lessen it. on the fringes but it's always been part of football. violence, hitting people, machismo. it's harkened back to bobly bane. paul horning gambled. these are she men. goodell won't suspend 28 players because it will dilute the product. he's not going to do it. if what espn and nbc is reporting is true, even if it isn't true, the fact that he only gave him two games, t two-game suspension when he knew that she had been knocked out by force from ray rice is despicable. it is despicable because ray rice might be a great guy or

not, what does he do? he walks away. he walks away. trust me, in an nfl championship in the super bowl, he would walk away if some guy got in his face but he should have walked away here and said he -- he didn't just knock her out. he threw a roundhouse left, it's probably the most brutal act many of us have seen and this two minutes, let's let all murders out. let's let all killers out. it only takes two minutes to wreck a life or to kill somebody. it's a ridiculous thing and a distressing thing for pro football players and teammates to say. it's absurd. >> rob, what do you think is the timing on the report by the muir commission by nfl? are they going to get to the bottom of this in a reasonable amount of time? how many are there at nfl headquarters you have to interview to get this thing done quickly. >> chris, and that's the big thing, since my report came out that someone at the nfl did indeed receive that video, a female voice in the voice mail i heard from my law enforcement official source 12-second voice

mail from a female saying she received it and agreed with the law enforcement official this was terrible, the nfl has launched this investigation. well, as you said, there are a lot of employees in that building. a lot of people walking through. the big question is who else saw that video? did this video get passed to that woman. did she give it to the intended recipient. did it ever get to roger goodell's hands or did it stop at that female voice mail? is she the last person who saw? and the investigation by the nfl should get to the bottom of that and this could take some time. it really could take a lot of time. >> why? why not call everybody in the room who is a female and ask who got the video? how long could it take? a simple question, yes or no, did you ever get a tape that showed him beating up his girlfriend. you didn't, let's go to the next person. go right through the list and get your answer. why does it take so long? i know why it takes so long. it's public relations and if you

want to kill an issue have a commission, have a meeting and you know what you do, you let it sit there till the whole thing gets coal and two or three months from now when the thing is cold on a friday night you release a report that accepts responsibility. in some vague we're all guilty bs thing. don't you think they'll do, rob? you're reporting this. >> and they have done that. they've said that they made an error in giving him just two games and they've changed their rules and they've changed their policy. now it'll be six game -- so they've made every step along the way. going back and said we handled this wrong. we did the wrong thing in this -- from the beginning but now, you know, everybody -- there is a different development every day. we all want to know did they see that video and that's the key thing. did they see that video or are they just reacting -- are they just reacting to the public reaction of the video? >> buzz, every week they get ready for the next game. they get ready. they get it done. they don't say give me three

months to get ready for the next game. they can ask a simple buy nary question to everybody in their headquarters and be done in an hour or two. i think it's a game. your thoughts, last word? >> i think you made a good point. you know, commission it to death. report it to death robert mueller, it'll be 185-page report. i will fly you out here to god's country because i guarantee what mueller will say, he'll rake the nfl over the koals, the tape existed somewhere but i have concluded that roger goodell did not see it. case closed. i guarantee you that will be the result. >> okay. thank you very much. buzz, you're the best. buzz bissinger and rob maadi and congratulations on that great reporting and you deserve awards for that. the great documentary filmmaker ken burns here with an early look at his new seven-part series on the roosevelts. it's all about teddy, franklin and eleanor and premieres this sunday. plus, hillary clinton heads to iowa.

her first time back since her bitter defeat in the iowa caucuses. will she practicing to the right or play to iowa's anti-war base? and the battle against isis. we'll be joined by seth molten and anti-war veteran who did four tours of duty in iraq and just this weekend, this week actually defeated sitting u.s. congressman john tierney in the democratic primary up there in massachusetts. finally let me finish with the very democratic notion that dynasties make no sense whatever. this is "hardball." the place for politics. musical chairs. fun, right? welllllllll, not when your travel rewards card makes it so hard to get a seat using your miles. that's their game. the flights you want are blacked out. or they ask for some ridiculous number of miles. honestly, it's time to switch

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>> this is the second dedication and there will be others by other presidents. >> i think that we can perhaps meditate on those americans, 10,000 years from now, i think we can wonder whether our descendants because i think they'll still be here, what they will think about us and let us hope that at least they will give us the benefit of the doubt. >> we're back. that was, of course, president franklin roosevelt. this time at the dedication of mt. rushmore in 1996. part of a new documentary the roosevelts by ken burns. beginning sunday at 8:00 p.m. on pbs, 8:00 p.m. eastern "the roosevelts" seven-night event telling the interwoven story of three remarkable figures of same

family, theodore, eleanor and franklin roosevelt. the opening begins with a bold prediction of the young fdr made himself when he was first starting his career as a legal clerk on wall street. >> the junior clerks were idly talking about their dreams for the future. most hoped just to become partners one day. ♪ but one had far bigger dreams. he didn't plan to practice law for long, he said. he intended to go into politics and eventually become president of the united states. the speaker was just 25 years old, an undistinguished student and indifferent lawyer but no one laughed. his name after all was franklin roosevelt. his fifth cousin theodore roosevelt was already president. the youngest in history.

>> joining me is the filmmaker the great ken burns. i think people don't realize how enormously popular teddy roosevelt was in his time. he was the first media president that everybody knew and knew what he looked like and everything. >> i think so. he completely redefined the presidency. he was young. he was energetic. he was essentially himself even though he's got kind of harvard or certainly upper crust accent and he's got coke bottle glasses and sort of rotund. people just fell in love with him because he had so much energy. he was so driven and, of course, part of the appeal for the young, a little bit too charming, a little bit too ambitious, a little bit too thin at that moment young fifth cousin franklin is that's going to try to follow each one of the footsteps of his more famous fifth cousin and, of course it isn't really until he can't take another footstep because of infantile paralysis that franklin gains the gravitas, the empathy able to lift the country up through the depression and second world war. >> i like fdr more and more

every year i get older. i keep thinking about the power of the guy. anyway, joe once said he was lying on the ground in hong kong the day after pearl hasher and listening to his speech and only could pick out every other word but heard the voice and knew in listening to fdr we would win the war. >> there's a moment eight days after he's inaugurated in '33 where he gives his famous banking address, the first of the so-called fireside chats and in less than 15 minutes he describes how we got into this banking mess, what the problem was and how we were going to get out of it. and, you know, the next day people expected another run and instead people put their money back in the bank. he had that great charismatic power to make people believe that they could do anything and he could do that because he had this extraordinarily confident upbringing and even with polio, even with all the other adversity, he was able to translate that into something he. i think all the roosevelts had distance in their ice and felt

that we all do well when we all do well and strangely enough no one has ever put all three together. i think it may just be the super fish alt of he a republican and franklin is a democrat. a great "down p tton abbey." >> eleanor accomplished a lot in her own right and as first lady long after leaving the white house. i can remember all that. she may have played a supporting reel to her husband while president but very much her own person. let's watch her for a second here. >> the roosevelt marriage was a partnership in which each played a very important part. each admired the other. each wanted very much the approval of the other. that was true throughout their lives together even when they were mad at each other. they lived very separate lives even when they were in the white house they were very separate lives. and she took the sort of cold

view of his fame and the kind of popularity he had she knew he was and he wasn't quite what they thought he was. >> the more she stood up for the anti-lynching law, fighting the lynching thing in the '30s, of course, that's tough for a democrat because of the coalition and she also come out and quit the d.a. or daughters of the american ref las vegas because they wouldn't let marian anderson who is african-american sing at the constitution hall and stuck her neck out. >> everywhere. everywhere. she's a miracle of the human spirit. she shouldn't have survived her orphanhood age desperate childhood and the infidelity of franklin, in fact, though, it's these things that made her face her fears and go out in the world. she became the conscience of the administration. she understood well before anyone what were the coming issues of race, of poverty, of labor, of immigration, of health, of children, of women and she with great, you know, being ridiculed all the time for

her looks and people making fun of her she just put her face forward and went at the most difficult thing and never let up. i think with the exception of prohibition, eleanor roosevelt was right on absolutely everything and that's an amazing testament to her fortitude and this thing that she had. she was her uncle theodore's favorite niece and she had all of his sense how to escape the demons that happened to her in her childhood and she worked her whole life to escape those and look what she became. it's just a testament -- >> i have to tell you, i think she wasn't really great for catholics. she wasn't big on catholics. if you know that you ought to know everything about her. she didn't like jack kennedy one bit. >> but they got to be friends after a while. >> well, but she -- she let him overcome his irish catholic background after a while but she didn't like it. teddy roosevelt. teddy was known for his larger than life personality and on bending willpower during a campaign in 1912. a gunman attempted to

assassinate him and not only did he survive but resumed giving his speech. here's that scene. >> the bullet passed through the ex-president's spectacles case and the folded 00-page speech behind it smashed through his chest wall and lodged in the splintered rib less than a quarter of an inch from his heart. pale and sometimes swaying at the podium he went on for more than an hour before his aides could get him to stop and agree to go to the hospital. >> ken, talk about why he didn't run. i know some of this. i'm sure you know more why he didn't run in 2000 -- i'm sorry, 1908. he could have easily gotten re-elected. why didn't he do that. >> the biggest political mistake theodore roosevelt made when he was elected in his own right as he sort of celebrating the victory makes this declaration like washington or cincinnati us

that he's not going to run again. his daughter alice is taken aback. he says if i could recall that statement, i gladly would cut off my right arm but, of course, he engineered his good friend william howard taft would succeed him to the presidency and of course unhappy that he was not the president he ended up running in the 1912 first as a republican, the bosses wouldn't let him do that he joined the progressive party and became the bull moose candidate and much of the new deal is in that party platform and much of what franklin roosevelt was later able to achieve came from that platform and so you see the direct connection between these two progressives one democrat, one republican. the one thing they couldn't get done and if tr were to arrive today he'd shake his head and just say, what? it took you a hundred years to get that health care thing that i wanted done? i mean, franklin couldn't do it either and it took until 2009 for that to be the sort of the cherry on the top of the new

deal. >> i heard that great story by tr expert that said the reason he didn't run in 1908 was because he said he wouldn't and he said i wouldn't. >> he's a man of his word. >> i'm sure if i had gone out there and said times have changed. conditions are different, i've re-examined that and ran people would say well he's a politician. >> but then he did do that in 1912. i mean -- >> let me stick with my hero worship here for a second. >> you got to be very careful with teddy. 'wonderful but he's also got that destabilized thing, always trying to outrun his demons and thinks war was a good thing and disappointed he didn't get a disfiguring wound on san juan hill. pushes his own sons closer and closer to combat in world war i with unspeakable tragic consequences so i think, you know, george will says you have to look at him with kind of clear eyes given what the 20th century was. >> you have clear eyes for eleanor and i've got clear eyes for teddy. >> so we'll meet in the middle with frank ling. >> well, what a great man.

anyway, maybe one of the two greatest presidents. >> oh, i think he's obviously the greatest president of the 20th century. franklin roosevelt and the a lincoln guy, he's come up to parity with lincoln in my eyes and indispensable as they were to the survival of our republic. >> the seven-part documentary on the roosevelts begins this sunday on pbs and thank you, ken burns and we'll be right back after this. >> thank you, chris. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well:

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end of words willy-nilly whenever you want you'll make mistakes. you think you're bombing syria and instead end up bombing cereal. >> welcome back. now time for "the sideshow." an interview on c-span jim clyburn of south carolina, a democrat, was talking about the many ways to mobilize voters. especially in the technology age. but when ticking off the various way to get out the vote he suggested yet another possibility. >> use the tools that we. we're got great tools to communicate about everything else, we can text, what do we call that, sexting, let's do some voting, organizing over the internet. >> anyway, a huge admirer of the congressman. congressman clyburn, i know what he meant, texting and good for him but while one leader mentioned sex by accident,

another had it clearly in mind after president obama spoke of american air strikes against isis in syria former cia director and retired air force general michael hayden said "the reliance on air power has all the attraction of casual sex, it seems to offer gratification but with very little commitment." hmm. now we all knew this was coming sooner or later now that new hampshire senator senator jeanne shaheen has her opponent for november's election she's going on offense. her rival is former massachusetts senator scott brown who is seeking his old job back this time from the state next door. well, here's shaheen's new website. ♪ >> i'm going to do what i think is right for massachusetts first. >> proud to be from massachusetts. >> i am nobody's senator except yours. [ applause ] >> i care about new hampshire. >> nobody's senator but yours.

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i'm milissa rehberger. breaking news. the minnesota vikings benched adrian peterson from sunday's game against the patriots. peterson was indicted in texas for child abuse. his lawyer says he used a switch to discipline his son but never intended to harm him. the family of oscar pistorius is expressing relief he was not convicted of murder but still found guilty of culpable homicide in the death of his girlfriend and could get a suspended sentence or up to 15

years in prison. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." well, two presidential elections ago hillary clinton went out to iowa and came back in third place. like others before her she learned iowa can be a very dangerous place politically. teddy kennedy, ronald reagan, george bush and mitt romney once gave iowa a try and lost. iowa is a place that likes underdogs, will it welcome the ultimate front-runner hillary clinton this time? on sunday clinton will make her first trip to iowa since 2008. she'll speak at senator tom harken's steak fry a tradition for 37 years. what we know about it its activist democratic base is very anti-war so the question is which hillary will they see this time? will it be the candidate who pushes a notch or two to the right of president obama on foreign policy? she's called not arming the syrian rebels sooner a failure. she's opposed dumping hosni

mubarak as quickly as some wanted to and opposed pushing settlement towards a settlement freeze and took a tougher stance against vladimir putin and advocated for a residual force in iraq and told "the atlantic," great nations need organizing principles" and don't do stupid stuff is not an organizing principle but did back president obama on some key policies. she supported the president negotiating with iran instead of harsh new sanctions and backed the president's push last year to bomb the syrian government of bashar assad after he used chemical weapons. chuck todd and the great new host of "meet the press" and prairie bacon in des moines, senior political reporter for nbc news and beth booey senior editor for msnbc.com. chuck, let's start with you. hillary clinton coming up on the steak fry, big event in iowa. iowa is always a big event and troubling event. it's midwestern. it's heartland. it's anti-war.

it's activist. on the republican side it's very christian conservative but let's talk democrats. hillary clinton, it seemed like a lot of thought is given into how they'll approach iowa even though she's the strong front-runner. >> i don't think there's been a lot -- funny you say that. i don't think they've put a lot of thought in how they'll approach iowa. in the same quandary they were eight years ago and knew it was trouble eight years ago. there was that infamous memo, deputy campaign manager that says, you know what, maybe you ought to skip iowa but a front-runner can't skip a steak that is a swing state in the general election so i don't see if they were thinking that they were going to do this differently than eight years ago that her first trip to iowa wouldn't be the biggest political event the democrats put on annually. her first trip to iowa would have been something none of us would have known about, she'd have been delivering pizza so bruce braley headquarters and instagramming and a sudden of people, hey, look, hillary clinton is in iowa and somebody

would have written the story. look who gets iowa now. i think showing up your first time at the biggest political event and, oh, by the way, doing it as a joint appearance with former president clinton tells me that they actually don't know how they're going to do iowa. >> well, let me ask you about that great old political term trimming. you trimming bastard somebody called somebody. tip o'neil calling somebody that. when you don't quite support them but give the lip service to it but everybody knows you're saying secretly i'd do it differently, this isn't my guy. are you going to get these signals from hillary clinton in the weeks to come or now that the president's moved to at least technically the right or hockey side of things by bombing at least iraq, probably syria next week, that she's more comfortable just being there with him and not making any distinction from him. >> i don't think you'll see a lot of distinction. look, there's a whole bunch of people around barack obama who simply believe that if a

democrat is elected in 2016, then it means that he got a third term. now she may be running for bill clinton's third term her own first term, barack obama's, everybody will have a terry of whose term she's running for but i think the obama white house, they just want a democrat to win. she's got the best shot so if you've noticed, who does the chirping in these obama/clinton back and forths. it's clinton people. there's nobody in the obama world, you know, that have really fought back too hard on some of the chirping that's gone back and forth. >> let me bring in right now party bacon covering the campaign. hillary saying in mexico city let alone iowa down in mexico city announcing her campaign schedule basically. i'll be deciding or deciding to run for president or not. i guess that's an outside -- option. sometime after the first of the year. so here she is speaking for the first time since the president basically has declared war on

isil and syria and first time she's basically made her schedule clear. here she is popping into iowa the first in the nation test for a democratic presidential candidate. what do you think she's thinking about tomorrow? what's kind of speech is she running today? >> i mean this event was planned before all the before the beheadings and things like that so i think she'll focus more on this is tom harkin's last steak fry so i think they'll do a lot to honor him an talk about him. i'd be surprised if she talks about foreign policy. harkin is more of a domestic policy so health care, talk about the economy, talk about tom harkin and talk how great he is. i think it'll be less of a big-time political speech and more of a welcome to iowa. i'm back here, tom harkin's great kind of event. >> so to use a phrase of the great well not the great but the late george wallace, there won't be a dime's worth of difference between hillary clinton and barack obama in the days ahead.

perry? >> not right now. yeah, not right now. i think eventually there will be but i think right now this early stage i'd be surprised on sunday if she was to take on barack obama right now at this event which is basically a democratic rally for tom harkin for bruce braley. >> chuck had to leave. now to my friend beth the you know this stuff as well as i do. you know it cold. cold. and here's the question. here's the question. is hillary clinton going to try to make up for the fact that she was a hawk the last time she ran for president? the reason she probably lost not just to barack obama but also got nicked by -- >> john edwards. >> imagine losing to two and coming in third in iowa last time around. i'm wondering whether she'll try to backtrack over that and say, wait a minute. don't believe i'm that person. i've changed or has the country changed in her lights and become more hawkish and caught up to her. which way will she play it. >> i was on the plane with her

leaving iowa and covered her campaign for the ap in 2008. i can tell you that night she came in third, i swore she would never return to iowa again. it was a brutal humiliating loss for this woman who had been the front-runner who spent millions and millions of dollars blood sweat and tears to campaign in that place to be repudiated that way was incredibly crushing. she even said so in her book "hard choices" that it was just crushing and i felt she was very angry with the voters of iowa. that she had given everything she had to give and still chose someone else so that said she's coming back there eating a bit of humble pie, i agree with perry she's not going to get out there and say anything about -- anything provocative about the president, about isil, about his decision to expand the military effort there. she is going back to say, hey, guys, i may be the front-runner in national polls but i'm really here to reintroduce myself to you and hope that you take another look at me this time. i think you're going to see a fairly humble hillary clinton. she's going to get behind the

celebration of tom harkin and his legacy in that state. he's very, very popular there. particularly among the liberal democrats who as you say form the base in that state. i don't think you're going to see a lot of real fireworks out of her. you're going to see a woman who wants to try again and she needs to try again. even as a front-runner she can't take that place for granted. >> you have to wonder whether if she were the senator from iowa whether she would have been a dove being a senator from new york she's a hawk, a big surprise there. anyway, senator marco rubio wrote going after the veiled isolationism of president obama and hillary clinton. what planet is he on quote from his focus on prematurely ending wars in the interest of nation-building here at home to his abandonment of america's traditional allies in an effort to placate america's enemy, president obama has made it clear that he is different from his post-world war ii predecessor, 5 1/2 years of obama/clinton worldview has given americans a graphic and often horrific view of the chaos that is unleashed in the world

when america walks away from its traditional role as the guarantor of global security." that's the end of his quote. to combat isis he opposed laying down red line, quote, if we are serious as the president said about ultimately destroying the islamic state, we cannot rule anything out. you know what, i think rubio works -- i don't know whether it's a tinker toy system he works with or paint by numbers, nothing perry original ever comes out that guy. he is a child politically. he says stuff that anybody would have said 40, 50 years ago in the cold war. he repeats it like somebody told it to him. there's nothing there. >> the one thing with the op-ed he mentions the names barack obama and hillary clinton but it's not about them. he keeps referring in this op-ed to these unnamed republican isolationists. 'not talking about obama or clinton but rand paul and that's who he's trying to attack is rand paul by suggesting rand paul is like barack obama on

foreign policy, a clue to republicans you can't like rand paul because he's like barack obama on foreign policy. that's the aim is for rubio wants to show tim himself as part of the national security part of the republican base and to suggest rand paul is outside of that mainstream and that's what the tactic is here. >> thank you very much for that, perry bacon and thank you beth fouhy. we'll talk to seth molten who served for four years of duty, military duty in iraq and this week he was in the marines and this week he won the democratic primary against nine-term incumbent senator john tierney up in massachusetts. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. at his current pace,

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welcome back to "hardball." just about the most stunning aspect of the 2014 season. seth moulton beat long-time candidate john tierney. he's a u.s. marine who served four tours of duty in iraq. he also opposed the iraq war personally. this week, president obama voted to expand the conditions against the islamic state, isis. welcome to "hardball." >> i always asked people who are my age who served in vietnam, were you in it? >> i was. >> so you know what the fighting 1 like over there? >> that's right! you know what the fighting is like. absolutely. >> do you know for any

first-world country to go into a third world country, for the better, change it. i know we can screw things up. i know we've done that in a lot of countries, but maybe you're right. except for the british who spent $200 million on democracy. all you can do is screw it up, they begin to hate you and they say get the hell out: i just saw secretary kerry saying we can't put troops back into iraq because the new prime minister over there didn't want us back in. your thoughts? >> i don't think that's entirely true. i disagreed with the iraq war. but i'm not one who thinks you can never do good around the globe. but there are times and places in iraq where american troops made a positive difference. i think you see that in afghanistan, as well. there are a lot of progressive things that are happening in afghanistan that never would have happened without our presence there. but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go in, and i don't

think it's a good idea to go back in now. at the end of the day, iraq has got to be able to defend its own borders. >> you're a military guy. when you train an army, can you give it zeal? can you give it an esprit de corps, like the marines have? this will to fight? >> it didn't just overwhelm the iraqi army. they put down their weapons and went home because they had no faith in the secretary of government. so the problem in iraq is not a military problem that we can support just by propping up their army. it's a political problem. we need to make sure that the iraqis have a government that they want to defend. i'd much rather see sending political adds visors. >> as one tribe one wins, the other tribe loses. you're talking about rodesia or any country, when the sunnis

lost power, the sheah took over. they grabbed it and they said the hell with the sunnis. how can you that i think that impulse to say you got it, we don't. how do you kim that? >> i think there are some leaders 234 iraq who are united and i think there are some that are dividers. it's very obvious that prime minister malachy was a divider. when they came back to report to congress, they basically said two things. one, mill tartly, we've had great success. but, two, we've not made as much political progress as we've anticipated. so they called for a diplomatic surge to make sure that we didn't become too sectarian. but we didn't provide that and isis swept in right almost to the edge of back dad. >> well, right now, we have to fight a war in syria and iraq.

how do we do it without troops on the ground? >> i think what you have to do first is you've got to restore the iraqi government. i've worked with these guys. if they have fait h in their government, i think they can take care of this job chlts i think you start with iraq. you make sure the iraqi army isolates it in syria. and then iert asaad will take care of it or we'll have to take action ourselves. but the first step is to restore a sovereign iraq. if we do it for them, we're going to be back there three years doing it again. the iraqis have got to be able to do it themselves. >> thank you, congratulations and good luck. we'll be right back after this. it lighter. one day, factories will work with the cloud.

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let me finish tonight with the very democratic notion that dynasties make no sense whatever. if you believe that a relationship of blood is an indication of shared leadership ability, you might consider it a different form of government. monarchy is available. but a warning is in order here. the reason that monarchy is so availability, nearly every country in the world has thrown it out. yes, there is something cute about the british royalty, anywhere from the wholesome family stuff, ala kate and will to the scandal stuff that provided over the decades. but governing? no one want that is. why do we speak of dynasties

with such affection? why? what's the evidence of greatness become carried on. give me some examples and i'll give you dozens of disasters. and that's "hard ball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> more trouble for an nfl star. >> a league in turmoil. reports that the former n nfl m.v.p. running back adrian peterson has been indicted for child abuse. tonight, the latest on the charge. plus, the fallout over the ray rice incident conditions. is commissioner ray goodell blaming the victim? is the united states in war with isil the way we're in war with al-qaida? >> unless we discipline our thinking, our definitions, our actions. we may be drawn into more wars we don't need to fight.