okay. that does it for "the cycle." "now" with alex wagner starts now. the senate is moments away from a vote on whether to arm moderate syrian rebels. will it go the way of the lower chamber? it's thursday, september 18th and this is "now". >> isil has to be defeated. plain and sifrmel. ♪ ♪. ♪ ♪i. ♪ ♪m. ♪ ♪p. ♪ ♪l. ♪ ♪e. ♪ ♪ >> let me begin by thanking you for the vote that took place yesterday. >> a very important and defining vote. >> as the senate gets ready to vote on training syrian rebels. >> they voted wrong. >> equip and train because we did such a great job in iraq. >> we're at war with isis just as we are at war with al qaeda. >> the militant cult masquerading as a religious movement. >> it's al qaeda and lebanese hezbollah on steroids.

>> more than 50 countries are contributing. >> who, what, how much some. >> the united states should not lead this. >> the the people who live there need to stand up and fight. >> we've all heard this before. >> this is not iraq. it's totally different. >> the decisions we now face are decisions of life and death. >> there is nothing easy. >> i want to see the plan. >> we cannot do for the iraqis what they must do for themselves. ♪ ♪ >> 50 international governments may be a part of the global coalition against isis, but the domestic debate over the current strategy continued for another day on capitol hill. right now on the senate floor, roughly 24 hours after the house approved the training and arming of moderate syrian rebels, se senators are debating the very same measure. the vote which is expected to pass is scheduled to take place at 5:30 p.m. eastern. earlier today in separate hearings secretary of state john kerry and secretary of defense chuck hagel faced questions from their colleagues in congress for the second day this week.

the two once again outlined the administration's strategy, one they are sure would involve no boots on the ground and they described the threat posed by isis if left unchecked. both kerry and hagel were pressed several times about the president's legal authority in conducting air strikes specifically with regard to the authorization of military force, a re-write of which the white house appears to be leaving in the hands of congress. >> on the, he aumf, we welcome updating the aumf. i think it would be good for everybody, i think, and so we welcome it. >> we believe the president has the authority under the aumf of 2001 to do what he believes is important to do for the security of this country. he also has said he welcomes the president -- or the congress' involvement, support if the congress believes that they want

to get involved in writing a new authorization of force. that's the prerogative of the congress. >> over 170 u.s. airstrikes have already hit isis targets in iraq and over 1,000 u.s. troops have been sent to iraq, but are we at war? that is a question for which secretary kerry could not provide a straight answer. >> a lot of people are debating this idea of what do you call it? do you call or on do you not call it war? it's not a war like iraq where we invaded and had hundreds of thousands of troops mobilized and, you know, 16,000 sorties and so forth. it's not that kind of war are. but if you care about what you call it, it is a war similar to what we did with al qaeda and terror and, sure, what i care about is not what we call it. i care about what we do. >> joining me now is the republican congressman from oklahoma's fourth district, tom

cole. always good to see you. thank you for taking the time out of what has been a busy week to join us. >> let me first talk about what seems like freaky friday on thursday or wednesday as the case may be. the the fact that more republicans voted for this amendment yesterday in the house than democrats did, how did that happen and if you could give us a little insight into how speaker boehner rallied republicans to vote for a democratic president's axe mendment, effectively? >> first of all, we look on this had as a foreign policy policy that isn't democratic or republican. it's an american challenge and it's something we do think largely in our conference that isil is a clear and present danger to the united states of america and has to be dealt with and we've seen enough evidence of how savage they are, but we also are watching them re-establish what we destroyed in 2001 in afghanistan. that's a terror state in the heart of the middle east where they have room and space to mobilize.

second, i think, frankly, the president's engaged in a very difficult situation of trying to assemble and build alliances. the worst thing congress can do would be to undercut him in the middle of that process. i've got lots of doubts about the strategy and concerns, and i also think that the president needs authorization, and i don't agree with the administration's position, but this gives him a show of public support and time to make his case and time to assemble that alliance and frankly, a majority of democrats did, as well and it was closer, but a majority of democrats voted with the president. ? congressman, to the point of authorization, the cabinet secretary seemed to think they're happy to see a reauthorization for the use of military force and have effectively tossed that back to congress. why not try and pass another aumf before the elections in november then? >> i think we absolutely should, but while the administration says that, it's what the

president asks is will this authorization be put in the continuing resolution? that is that there will never be a vote on it at all and that's what senator reid wanted. the reason we had a vote was because john boehner and the republican conference insisted that we have a second vote, that we actually put people on record and that's not what senator reid wanted to do in the senate and he's wanted to avoid it for political reasons and it's not what the president asked for and they accepted the vote and once we insisted on it. i think every member needs to express their position yay or nay and face their voters and explain why. >> congressman, while it's nice to hear about republicans working hand in hand with a democratic president at a time of escalating foreign policy crisis, there are still some in your party and leading lights at that, specifically senator rand paul who are not at all happy about this, he said to this,

sending arms to moderates in syria will only make isis stronger. what do you say to senator paul? >> first of all, i have a lot of respect. this is a difficult and challenging situation. no doubt about it, but this war has been going on inside syria and it's cost over 200,000 syrian lives and plenty of people have certainly been sending arms in and our adversaries have been busily arming isil and busily arming assad and the free syrian army hasn't got nearly as much help, and look, i think there are a lot of questions here and i would prefer a full authori authorization and the president needs to be careful about ruling in or out the tools and you go to war and you're in it to win. as i understand it the the administration's goal is to on first degrade and then destroy isil. why in the world would you tell them ahead of them. we'll do these things, but not these things. i just don't think you give that kind of head's up to your enemy. >> on that point, would you

authorize the use of of combat troops on the ground? >> i would make a simple statement that our purpose is to destroy isil and then leave the full range of options open to the president of the united states. now he hadn't requested that. he may not need all of that. i just don't think you should rule them out. i think war is a very unpredictable enterprise, and again, in the briefings that we had with general dempsey, former general of the chiefs of staff and it's not sufficient to a chief executive our objective and we'd like the president to lay out in total what is it that you exactly intend to do so we know, but i think we for a crisis and the the president needed congressional support and i'm happy both parties provided the majority of their helps to do that in the house. >> congressman tom cole, thank you for your time and thoughts. >> joining me now is deputy spokesperson for the state department, marie harf in what i

know is a busy week for you guys. i want to talk about the reality of what is happening on the ground. we know that the the assad regime is engaged in what some folks are saying is an unprecedented level of attacks against moderate rebels. how concerned is the state department about that? >> we're incredibly concerned about it and that's why you heard my boss john kerry up on the hill yesterday and today asking for their support to train and equip the moderate opposition and that's not just training individual members of the moderate opposition. that will be helping them set up a structure so they can fight better against the assad regime and against isis because they're fighting a war on a number of fronts and they need help to do it. >> are you worried about how the assad regime is internalizing statements lake that? >> i try not to make predictions about how the assad regime is internalizing anything. the national security has to be the fight against isis and that's why you heard the strategy outline his strategy and that's why we're putting the coalition together to fight back against.

you heard my boss say this today about the assad regime's brutality and that's why the situation in syria is so imperative for us to focus on. >> as we focus on the complexities of syria, the situation in iraq is equally as complex. and this administration has uponed with reason to believe things are different with the new iraqi govern am, but in a lot of ways things are as complicated as they always have been, specifically with the shiite militias which many folks say are stronger than the iraqi military. how much of a problem is that for us? >> as you've seen with this inclusive iraqi government is for the iraqis to have a different path forward. secretary kerry will chair a security council with a number of countries to show support for the new iraqi government and we all need to get behind the government and recognize that their forces and the kurdish forces are the ones that need to be the troops on the ground fighting isis and not anyone else. >> let me ask you, having faith

in the new government is important, but a lot of the ministers are the the very same people. an iraq expert at yale quoted in a "new york times" editorial who says i think we're basically hoping that these same politicians that have ruled iraq since 2003 are going to behave differently. what are your thoughts on that? >> well, i think a couple of things. first, we have a new prime minister. al abadi has said the right things, has done the right hinges and we have new people at the top and they understand the very serious security challenge they're facing and i think we need to judge them by what they do. they know the history and we're all aware of it. part of the reason we got here is because of the sectarianism that was allowed to flourish in iraq and they need to effectively push back against isil. >> nuri al maliki said the same thing when he started his tenure. how certain are you at this point given how much is predicated on the success of this government?

how sure can the united states state department be? >> well in these kind of matters, you can can never be certain about anything. so we judge people by what they say and what they do and the new iraqi government so far has said the right things and done the right things. i do think that from our conversations with them, secretary kerry was there the day after they formed the new government, they understand the threat whether it's the sunni, the shia and the kurds they understand the best way to come together and fight isil is to bring their citizens together, to get them invested in the government and to do this as one country because again, this is a threat they know they have not faced before. >> i want to talk really quickly about an issue that seems to have plagued the administration since the beginning of all of this which is whether or not we are at war. we play the sound of your boss sort of beginning to tackle that issue. you've called it a war. >> i have. other people in the administration has called it a war. the president has not called it a war. i'm not sure what the secretary

of state did in the clip that we played. why is there so much difficult ney delineating this as a war or on not a war. >> first, we are at war with isil in the same way we are at war with al qaeda inshabab. >> would you say we are at war, period. >> i'm not sure what that gets you. >> there's always the caveat in the same way that we are at war with al qaeda and that is a very complicated war. are we at war period. >> the reason why the caveat matters is because what does that mean? if we are at war with isil, what does that mean some we have certain counterterrorism tools if this administration knows how to do is one thing is how to go after terrorist ands degrade their capabilities. it's not going to be like the afghanistan war and that's why that second part matters. >> right, but i think in world war ii, we are at war in the same way we are at war earlier. it was we are at war, because we are at war. not to belabor the point and in

some ways for the american public the answer to are we at war should be a yes or no. >> and it is. and it is. we have said we are at war with isil. period. the reason we say the second part is so the american people will know what that war look like. we're not trying to dodge the question. we're trying to give the american people a very clear understanding of what we can expect here. that's why i say we will not put combat troops into iraq and syria. that's why we say things like we will use air power a and we wilt off tools and we will use other fighters from anything to fight with isis and that's why it's important to say what this kind of war will look like. it it won't be like the previous iraq war and it will look like what we've done against al qaeda very successfully with other places around the world. >> we are at war, full stop. marie harf from the state department. hang with me, if you can, we'll talk more about this later in the hour. coming up, more on the new isis video featuring a british

hostage. i will speak with msnbc counterterrorism michael leiter and i'll ask senator joe maf manchin. and will this go down as scottish independence day. mpr will join me live from scotland next on "now." ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. create things that help people. design safer cars. faster computers. smarter grids and smarter phones. think up new ways to produce energy. be an engineer. solve problems the world needs solved. what are you waiting for? changing the world is part of the job description.

join the scientists and engineers of exxonmobil in inspiring america's future engineers. energy lives here. [guyi know what you're excited. you're thinking beneful. [announcer]and why wouldn't he be? beneful has wholesome grains,real beef,even accents of spinach,carrots and peas. it has carbohydrates for energy and protein for those serious muscles. [guy] aarrrrr! [announcer]even accents of vitamin-rich veggies. [guy] so happy! you love it so much. yes you do! but it's good for you,too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. what are you doing? the dishes are clean. i just gotta scrape the rest of the food off them. ew. how is that clean?! uhhh.... dish issues? quiet them with cascade platinum. it powers through your toughest messes

better than the competition the first time. clean! (squeak, squeak, squeak) stop it. cascade. now that's clean. this is holly. her long day of outdoor adventure starts with knee pain. and a choice. take 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. onward!

>> the polls in scotland close in less than an hour. to cessation from the united kingdom. it is remarkably simple. should scotland be an independent country?

for supporters and the yes campaign national pride is paramount. they argue that for years left-leaning scotland has been poorly represented by its more conservative english government in london, but the better together supporters have focused on the economic disaster awaiting scotland should it choose to go it alone and secede from a union which dates back to the year 1707. beyond the emotional impact which would necessarily include the demise of the famed union jack, many questions remain unanswered. how to divide north sea oil. what happens to trieden. the nuclear deterrent based in scotland and what currency would the scots use. they've forced british prime minister david cameron who agreed to the referendum vote two years ago when a yes vote seemed unlikely. they have forced him to deliver an impassioned plea for the scots to stay. >> independence would not be a trial separation. it would be a painful divorce.

it would mean we no longer share the same currency. it would mean the armed forces we built up together over centuries being split up forever. we want you to stay. head, heart and soul, we want you to stay. >> joining me now from the site of today's vote count in edinboro, scotland, is ari shapiro. thanks so much for joining me. >> my pleasure, alex. how are you? >> i want to know first, which of all of the myriad arguments, emotional or economic is having the most impact on scottish voters? >> i hear no voters most often say the economic argument and i hear yes voters cite the emotional nationalistic argument, the shorthand for this, though it's hard to generalize is no voters are more likely to be voting with their head and yes voters more likely to be voting with their heart. >> there is some bristling we heard anecdotally about britain

saying this will be very bad for you and sort of threatening the scottish and that was boomeranging voters saying, you know what? we don't need to be under your thumb. >> that played into the nationalist's playbook. they have been arguing for years that political leaders are patronizing and ordering around the scots and when the leaders of the better together campaign and the leaders in london said if you secede you won't be able to use the pound. and they is exactly the kind of behavior we've put up for decades and so we thought the better together campaign 20-point lead-in polls suddenly disappeared to the span of a month where now the race is too close to call. >> what is turnout looking. i heard it's 97% of scottish voters registered for this. i know the polls haven't closed, but, go ahead. >> unbelievably high, 4.2 million scots registered to vote. that's 97% of all eligible voters. a typical election in scotland sees maybe 60% of voter turnout.

here people were talking about above 80 and maybe above 90%. we don't have exit polls in scotland the way we have in the u.s. and certainly this is higher turnout than any election scotland has seen. it's not the most significant election in years and it is the most significant vote these people will cast in generations in their life time. >> ari, one more question, in terms of what this does to david cameron. a yes vote would seem to be disastrous, but a no vote on secession would seem to be equally problematic in the long term, at least for his administration. >> that's right. >> many people have said a yes vote would end david cameron wou's political career immediately. the liberal votes from scotland would then be out of the picture. a no vote would also really hurt him because as the pollses tighten, he had to offer scotland a lot more autonomy almost as a bribe to get them to vote to stay in the united

kingdom. even a no vote will mean a different relationship going forward for england and scotland. npr's ari shapiro on one of the most exciting days since the year 1707. >> thanks, alex. >> coming up, another nfl player is arrested for domestic violence and pulled off the field. we will look at the league's season of scandal coming up next. th. with 90 calories. and is now aspartame free. yoplait light. it is so good; it's better than ever. do you have something for pain? i have bayer aspirin. i'm not having a heart attack, it's my back. i mean bayer back & body. it works great for pain. bayer back & body provides effective relief for your tough pain. better? yeah...thanks for the tip! sfx: ambient park noise, crane engine, music begins.

we asked people a question, how much money do you have in your pocket right now? i have $40, $53, $21, do you think the money in your pocket could make an impact on something as big as your retirement? not a chance. i don't think so. it's hard to imagine how something so small can help with something so big. but if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge sfx: crowd cheering might not seem so big after all. ♪ machines will be sprayed to be made. and making something stronger...

will mean making it lighter. one day, factories will work with the cloud. one day... is today. i am so noh my gosh...now, it's not even funny. driver 1 you ready? yeah! go! [sfx] roaring altima engine woah! ahhhha! we told people they were riding nissan's most advanced altima race car. we lied... about the race car part. altima, with 270 horsepower and active understeer control. how did you?...what! i don't even, i'm speechless. innovation that excites. take and... exhale.in... aflac! and a gentle wavelike motion... aahhh- ahhhhhh.

liberate your spine, ahhh-ahhhhhh aflac! and reach, toes blossoming... not that great at yoga. yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. ahh! four days? yep. find out how fast aflac can pay you, at aflac.com. >> for the nfl the nightmare continues. this morning arizona cardinals runningback jonathan dwyer appeared in court and was charged of aggravated assault against his wife and son. >> it is a count of domestic violence, aggravated assault for causing a fracture that is against the 27-year-old female. >> today police elaborated on those charges alleging that back? july, dwyer head-butted his wife and broke her nose after she

refused his sexual advances and he punched her in the face the next day. the allegations were the latest to rock the the will nfl which has now seen five of their players embroeled in domestic abuse scandals over a lackluster response. dwyer's arrest and immediate deactivation by the cardinals came hours after the minnesota vikings engaged in an abrupt 180 announcing that adrian peterson will now not be allowed to play until after his allegations of child abuse were settled. nike dropped peterson. this comes as the nfl has seen more of its sponsors question the league's response and they've not withdrawn their financial support, support that added up to a record-setting $1 billion in 2013. coming up, authorities in australia thwart a potential terror plot capturing 15 people with suspected ties to isis who had allegedly been planning a public beheading. we'll look at how the islamic

state is recruiting fighters from around the world. that's just ahead. i'm type e. i know what my money is doing. i rebalanced my portfolio on my phone. you know what else i can do on my phone? place trades, get free real time quotes and teleport myself to aruba. i wish. some people think vegetables are boring. but with green giant's delicious seasonings and blends, we just may change their minds. ho ho ho green giant!

could scare the moustache off someone's face? don't let it be you. one swish of scope kills millions of bad breath germs, freshening your breath. so you can be the girl who doesn't scare the moustache off someone's face. scope. the freshest fresh, guaranteed. this is charlie. who doesn't scare the moustache off someone's face. his long day of doing it himself starts with back pain... and a choice. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. honey, you did it!

baby laughs! today showing a british hostage comes one day after the group posted a hollywood-style propaganda clip vowing to target american soldiers. the u.s. state department is releasing its own youtube videos. we will see it playing out over the airwaves with msnbc counterterrorism analyst michael leiter. that's next, but first, julia boorstin has the cnbc market wrap. hi, julia. >> hi, alex. the dow and s&p 500 end at ridiculous peaks in a fed-fueled rally. the s&p up nearly ten points and the nasdaq up by 31 pointses. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. he open road?

a card that gave you that "i'm 16 and just got my first car" feeling. presenting the buypower card from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com i have a cold. i took nyquil but i'm still stuffed up. nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. really? alka-seltzer plus night rushes relief to eight symptoms of a full blown cold including your stuffy nose. (breath of relief) oh, what a relief it is. thanks. anytime. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation.

plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion.

and now celebrex may be available for as little as $4 a month. terms and conditions apply. to learn more, go to celebrex.com. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are24/7branches? it's just i'm a little reluctant to try new things. what's wrong with trying new things? feel that in your muscles? yeah... i do... try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates.

as the u.s. senate prepares for a decisive vote on training syrian rebels in the fight against isis. a u.s. citizen from rochester, new york, pled not guilty in federal court to trying to recruit for the terrorist group. mufid elfgeeh, from yemen, attempted to persuade three people to go to syria and to fight on behalf of isis. he also planned to carry out mass shootings of u.s. military personnel and shia muslims according to prosecutors. meanwhile, hundreds of police in australia conducted pre-dawn raids against suspected isis militants who were planning to behead a random citizen. the operation was the largest in australian history. the law enforcement crackdowns highlight the increasing global reach of the terror group's propaganda efforts. just hours ago isis released a new propaganda video, this one featuring a british hostage speaking directly to the camera, promising to show the truth about the campaign against isil.

the video was released after another one from the group was posted online, this one declaring war on the united states. the the clip entitled "flames of war" plays like a hollywood trailer, except this is no movie. the video depicts mill iramen firing at tanks before cutting to president obama's prime time speech last week. we should know we do not know when or where these images were taken. how is america responding to the messaging war. they launched their own social media campaign one based on the isis model and complete with its own promotional videos. [ speaking foreign language ] >> back with me now is the deputy spokesperson for the state department marie harf and joining me from washington is msnbc counterterrorism analyst

and former director of the national counterterrorism center michael leiter. michael, let me start first with you. in terms of isis propaganda, the slickness would seem to actually be a cover for how exactly howerful isis truly is. would you agree with that? >> yes and no, alex. they are not ten feet tall. they can't strike at their will everywhere in the world, but they are really bordering on brilliant at using propaganda and inspiring others away from syria. what we saw in australia is some indication of that. so their use of social media, their use of slick graphics is more advanced than any other organization we've seen any they're very good and the question will be are we good enough to catch up to what their messaging is getting out. >> how do you grade our efforts thus far. we just played a clip of what the state department put out, and how do you grade it? >> i worked on this for a very long time. part of the failure is my own,

but in truth, we are not very good at social media. we are very slow and also the u.s. government being the messenger really makes it very difficult to influence a lot of people we want to influence. so i think what we need is stronger partnerships between civic organizations, mainstream muslim groups and technology than the government actually getting the message out itself. >> marie, what's your response to that? michael leiter taking on and bearing some of the burden there for an effort that i don't think he's giving an a. she says that the outreach by the u.s. government is not only ineffective, but also provides jihadists with a stage to voice their arguments regularly engaging with petty disputes with isis, al qaeda and al shabab and arguing who has killed more people while exchanging sarcastic quips. it may be detrimental to our ultimate goals. how do you respond to that? >> well, i would disagree with

the notion that she posed that it was somehow detrimental. i think this is only one part of the efforts that we are putting a coalition together again to counter their ideology. that's part of what we're trying to get other countries to do. mike leiter is right. the united states can do some of this, but what we need is clerics in the region like saudi arabia and other places in the gulf, stand up and say this group does not represent islam and speak to the people that might be at risk for radicalization here and there are other counterparts in the u.s. government who do that work in the u.s. with communities who might be vulnerable to this radicalization as well because we know there is a threat there, too. >> it would seem that we need to step up those efforts and we were reading in the new york times about local recruiting in places like turkey where they've drawn by the current count over 1,000 fighters to be part of the isis wave, and you know, it's a heartbreaking account of you

know, places where institutions, and educational institutions have crumbled and they no longer exist and they've been raised and no money to support these communities and the only thing that exists for these groups of mostly young men is the sort of the promises of radical islam. i guess i wonder in the immediate, what should we be doing to counter that at the local level? >> i agree with marie. first of all, we have to rely on our partners in the region. sunni regime, saudi arabia, turkey and they need to step up and especially the turks need to step up not just on the counter radicalization, but keeping people from getting there. second, we need to double down on what we've been doing in the u.s. domestically. we are very good at offense and we're very good at defense and very good at intelligence and messaging is a piece that over the past 13 years we've been weakest at. so we have to double down, domestically, internationally and build partnerships which just don't come naturally in the u.s. government. >> let me ask you on the turkey

piece, michael. the notion that isis has is making $1 million to $2 million a day from plaqblack market oil sales. some of that is going courtesy of turkey. the secretary of state was asked about this and the turks have been reluctant to get involved because there are 49 hostages being held by isis. should we be helping turkey to cut down on funding streams for isis? >> we don't have a choice choice. we know money fuels isis and we also know the openness of the turkish border makes them a far more dangerous group. so i think secretary kerry and general allen when he gets out to the region will be critical on really pushing on the turks to crack down on isis and this will be a difficult dance because at the same time we're trying to empower the peshmerga and the kurds which is not. lar in ankara and turkey.

>> can can you elaborate more on the push by the state department to push turk owe isis. >> we know each country has certain tools it can use to help in this fight. obviously because of turkey's geographical location, we are talking to them about financing and foreign fighters. those are two key parts of it. the secretary was just there, as you said, those conversations are ongoing, but speaking to your earlier point and this is the last point i'll make, we have to address the root us qaaes of what drags people to extremism. that's a longer term challenge and we will continue working with our partners on the region on and one chited to. >> that is the generational part. marie harf and michael leiter, thank you for your time and thoughts. ing come up, the senate is expected to vote in the next hour, on whether to approve president obama's plan to arm syrian rebels and democratic sen thor joe manchin joins me to discuss why he is opposing the white house coming up just ahead.

we're the names you know, in the places you want to be. where you can explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. twelve brands. more hotels than anyone else in the world. for a chance to win one million dollars, visit wyndhamrewards.com yeah! vo: don't just dream of being the hero. make it happen. i can't believe we're missing the game for this. we're not. i've got xlte. vo: it doubles our 4g lte bandwidth in cities nationwide, so be that guy with verizon xlte. now get 1gb of bonus data, and our best pricing ever on the more everything plan.

♪ [music] jackie's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

fill the void as we conduct air strikes against isil, right now the senate is debating president obama's plan to arm and train moderate syrian rebels. and it is leading to some unlikely alliances. i will speak with west virginia senator joe manchin and former vermont governor howard dean about the new political battle lines on capitol hill. that's next. hello! three grams daily of beta-glucan... a soluable fiber from whole grain oat foods like cheerios can help lower cholesterol. thank you! virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. now it's quicker and easier for you to start your business,

protect your family, and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. do you have something for pain? i have bayer aspirin. i'm not having a heart attack, it's my back. i mean bayer back & body. it works great for pain. bayer back & body provides effective relief for your tough pain. better? yeah...thanks for the tip! to fill your viagra prescription online? go to viagra.com to find out about viagra home delivery. millions of men have some degree of erectile dysfunction.

talk to your doctor, if viagra is right for you, you can fill your prescription at your pharmacy, or check out viagra home delivery and get started at viagra.com ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain, it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. viagra home delivery. a convenient way to have prescription viagra shipped straight to you. go to viagra.com to get started.

debate is wrapping up and the senate is poised to take a vote in the next hour on rz's plan to train and arm syrian rebels to counter the the threat from isis. the measure passed the house yesterday attached to a bill that will keep the government open and operating through mid-december. a successful vote in the senate would send it to the president for his signature, but some republicans and some democrats would like to prevent that from happening. joining me now is the democratic senator from west virginia and member of the senate arms services committee senator joe

manchin. always a pleasure to see you. thanks for your time in advance. first, let's talk about where you would like to see the president go on this. you've said before that we should be getting the saudis and the the turks and the egyptians and jordanians to be doing this, but they have been supporting jihadists in one way or another and the turks are providing critical economic support for isis in the form of black market oil sales. how feasible do you think it is for those arab countries to really lead on this. >> first of all, you know, the president last year was led to believe that we needed to bomb syria, and i was opposed to that and many other senators and people started speaking up and it didn't make common sense and we did it through sanctions and was able in getting russia involved and was able to take the chemical weapons off the shelf. they're gone. you would think that, you know, that after 13 years of experience that we've had over there which hasn't proven very

successful at all, i'm not against the white house. i'm not against anybody. i'm just for common sense. and i learned that we haven't had a good track record and nor do the people want us over well and all we do is kind of get people all ginned up, if you will to use as a recruiting tool when united states troops are on the ground. you can't guarantee those people will be forced. no one can vet that and tell me that oh, yes, they're going to basically do exactly what we need them to do, fight isil. they're all islamists and they'll go to themselves together more than they are to us. >> you suggested that the strategy on working with the russians to get the syrians to stop using chemical weapons was a success, but in fact the slaughter continues and while bashar al arc sad ssad is not ue chemical weapons on the the list he is barreling his people with

different substances. i wonder how truly successful the u.s. has been. >> it's horrific, but let's look at saddam hussein. we thought -- these are horrific, barbaric people. they live in a barbaric place it seems like and people tolerate this. i don't know what to say. we have tried, 13 years, alex, $1.6 trillion, 6600 american lives and 50-some thousand who have been maimed or injured. do you think we haven't tried our best to try to help and now you want to continue this on when they basically want -- the people in the neighborhood won't step up to the plate and take responsibility for their own neighbors? i wouldn't want to live like that. i wouldn't want my family subjected to that? >> do you think the saudis would step up to the plate if they use the united states of america as the bad guys and then be the good guys to everybody, it doesn't make sense at all. >> there are very few shows when

tom cole talks about how we need to support a president and the republican congressman being ginns the show like that and we close out with a democratic senatorec pressing skepticism about the strategy. does the president of the united states have the support of democrats in congress in terms of the battle against isis. >> just the scenario you laid out, between tom cole and myself, does that not tell you we need a broader discussion, a broader debate? why does this thing need to be rushed through and think of yourself as a senator getting it all lumped together and not even being able to vote on it it and not being able on talk at all on it, does that not make any sense at all? and we don't have to rush out of here. the c.r., we don't run our spending limit until the end of the month. i would be more than happen to stay this week and next week and as long as they want me to stay. i want to do something, and i have to go home and explain why we didn't do anything. this does not make sense to me. it does not make sense to west

virginians. i've spoken to them and i've been home and it doesn't make sense for us to get pulled into this thing when the outcome after a 13-year experience is not going to be different than what we've had until the turks, until the saudis and until the jordanians and until the egyptians want -- and the moderate people over there want to take responsibility for their own land, protect their families and live in some kind of tranquility with the quality of life and the best they can have. they've got to step up to plate. we can't be the policemen of the world and nor do they want us to be. >> senator, would you authorize -- would you re-authorize the use of military force. that vote was happening today? >> we need to re-authorize the use of military force. i understand that we'll have a debate on that and i appreciate bob menendez. i don't think we should be open-ended. we are working on one that was voted on in 2001-2002 under

president bush. this has allowed us to go in so many different directions and basically it's a no-end situation. so, yes, i would like to see it. to tell you if i would vote on it, to what extent, if it was there, where we are and what we'll do with the support role we play, the aircraft, i've been for air support and i would be very much in support of that, but when you have the prime minister of iraq yesterday, alex saying, you know what? we appreciate the air support you've given us, that helped tremendously. we don't need you nor do we want you on the ground. >> yeah. >> when they're telling you that, don't you think they're saying listen, don't instigate this more, it's bad enough as it is and give us what you can and your expertise. we're willing to do that. in syria, this is a civil war and we'll take sides some why would we take sides again. >> these are complicated times

and thank you for taking the time. >> thank you, alex. >> former government of vermont and former chairman of the dnc, governor dean. unlikely alliances and unlikely enemies here, what where do you fall on the president? >> i don't agree with joe manchin, but i think he represents the hearland and people are tired of war. we've made an enormous amount of mistakes. i thought the iraq war was the biggest blunder in morn foreign approximately see, and we made this mess and if you buy it, you break it and pay for it and that's what we're doing. all of our instincts to get the hell out of there cannot solve the problem. we have a very dangerous, armed cult with 31,000 armed people there. it is a cult. these are not islamists. they're using islam as anec cues. this is a cult. joe is right, the true muslims should stand up to the plate and denounce this stuff and some are doing that and he's right about

the saudis who are always playing both against the middle and so forth, but the fact is isis is a danger to the united states, not just to the people who have been beheaded, but it's also, they are on television and recruiting people to come and do things here. >> yeah. >> we have to deal with that and we should not have boots on the ground under any circumstances. joe is right when he said we can't fight other people's war for them, but we can't support them. i personally think we shouldn't arm the kurds. i'm lukewarm on arming the syrian rebels because they have a bad track record. isis is a very dangerous, well-funded cult that intends to do a great deal of harm to americans. >> what do you think of the president saying in no circumstances are they going to have ground roops? >> we shouldn't have ground troops. and that's where i agree with senator manchin. the fact is this is not our war to fight. we have something at stake here. if isis gets big and if they hold territory, they're a danger

the to the united states just as al qaeda had a homeland in afghanistan, we can't afford to have terrorists dominated by an isis cult. so we do have to defend ourselves and bombing them in both syria and iraq is such a defense and joe is right, though, boots on the ground alienates people and he's right in saying if people are not willing to defend themselves we cannot win that war. >> what about the reauthorization of military force and the fact that the president and his emsears have said we're for that and kicking it it back to congress. >> he should be, only because congress is incompetent and incapable of doing that, name anything of substance that congress has done. >> they're doing something substantive today. >> harry reid -- they have to keep the government alive because otherwise the republicans will lose the election. harry reid is doing the right thing and he's bundling it up because he doesn't trust the republicans and the republicans have not given him any reason to trust them whatsoever.

this republican party have put their own interests in front of the interest of the nation. reid is doing the right thing. i think if congress wants to debate it, let them stay for a while and debate it. that's just fine, but let's not hinder the president of united states from defending the country because they want to make political cheap points before the election. >> let me ask you one more question before we have to wrap it. the republican party, you seem to attribute this to the c.r., but on some level it seems that john boehner has managed to bring his troops to fall in line. >> i do believe the majority of the republican party is in fact, patriotic, but they're terrified of the tea party wing nuts and the ted cruz's of the world who don't care about anything except their own power. when joe mckarth of wisconsin was calling everyone a communist and even president eisenhower was afraid of him and i welcome people like tom cole who was standing up to the thought cases in the republican party who seem to be running it. >> a fascinating day in american

politics. a complicated one as well. governor howard done. thanks for your time. that is all for "now." i'll see you back tomorrow at 4:00. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. ♪ ♪ >> we welcome, we would like congress, please, do this. >> whether in iraq or in syria, these terrorists will learn the same thing that the leaders of al qaeda already know. >> john kerry hounded by anti-war protesters in congress echoed the president. >> we mean what we say. >> we're not going to make our actions dependent on it happening. >> we're not going ask for buy-in by the united states senator house of representatives on behalf of the american people. >> this is not the time to show anger at the people who are working night