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troops will not be involved in a combat mission. >> american forces will not be returning to combat in iraq. >> we will not be dragged into another ground war in iraq. >> the american forces deployed to iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. >> give the president a break. they have a reason to worry that the american people may need some convincing that this mission of air strikes and training will not involve into something that looks more like an all-out ground war. considering the fight has evolved and expanded, on june 16th, the white house told congress they were sending personnel to iraq to provide security for the embassy in baghd baghdad.

we had advisors in iraq and we are assessing how to best train, advice, and support security forces going forward. on june 30, another 200 to provide security. and on september 10th the president announced an expanded air strikes campaign and more troops. >> we will send an additional 475 service members to iraq. >> that puts the number of troops on the ground other 1,000. the administration stratify to once again emphasize exactly what the strategy is not. >> u.s. ground troops will not be sent into combat in this conflict. the u.s. troops that will be

deployed do not and will not have a combat mission. >> as you can see, members of the anti-war group code pink were there to protest and they made themselves known at the beginning of the senate foreign relations committee, and secretary kerry acknowledged their presence in his opening remarks. >> i understand decent. i lived it. that's how i first testified in front of this country in 1971. >> he was, of course, referred to april 22, 1971 when a 27-year-old john kerry who served in vietnam testified against that same committee against the war. >> we can only look at the fact this this country is not able to see there is absolutely no difference between a ground

troop and a helicopter crew. >> a very different sounding john kerry. of course testifying about very different conflicts, but are there similar concerns to be had today? today, to discuss this latest mission, three guests will understand what it means to take on the mission of war firsthand. we have an assistant professor of history, who was an iraq war veteran who was wounded. . we have matt southworth. an iraq war veteran. for all of you. when you see john kerry 1971 and you see secretary of state john kerry, what does that prompt for

you? >> it makes me think of the long history of service members entering the war and seeing what it's really like, coming home and telling the truth about it. major general stanley butler wrote "war is a racket." it is interesting to hear someone go from that rhetoric to what we're talking at now which is starting the path to war. the idea that we're not going to have troops on the ground seems false to me since this is the pattern we have been on. >> so when we were together last week, part of the reason i wanted to assemble this panel is because of the intensity that occurred between you and another guest. what does it mean to be a veteran, and what does it mean to be an infantry man. and you very clearly said no matter what, these who have volunteered for the position will take on whatever mission they have. but that is not quite the same

thing as beating the drums of war. >> no, i think we have a great panel here to so the difference. infantry men go in knowing they're going to fight. that's their sole reason for being. they live for it. someone that has never experienced it, never been around it, never been inside of it, it doesn't matter who it is. and they truly believe in their leaders. if the president says we'll go here and do it well, and that's what they said this week in congress. he said there is no problem with if do put boots on the ground. we can do it surgically and professionally. >> this is a matter of priority when it comes county to it. the u.s. spent roughly $6 billion a year on military, and

we spend $50 million fewer than that engaging countries and so on. i bet if we reverse the budgets we would be better at something else. we have a very well trained fighter force. are these orders the right orders? i don't think they are. we have been bombing iraq for 24 years and it has not helped them become a more stable place. >> i want to dig into the question about the cost. on the one hand i absolutely appreciate the value of talking about what it costs us personally, as a nation, financially, i wonder if we have a special responsibility no matter what it costs, as a result of our intervention being part of what the nation is now facing. >> i think you're exactly right. this is part of a larger conversation that the country needs to have in public. it's a debate that if the united

states is going to a hedge amount of power, we need to be a hedge amount of power. i don't like to use the word isolation, but taking a military approach. we need to have that public debate. i think that people will get behind whatever is decided in the long run through the politicia politicians. there is no longevity to the strategic planning. it's the only country in the world where foreign policy completely changes because opinions all change once the new president comes in. there is no consistency which is okay if we have a plan that can be changed and tweaked and everything. >> i don't think you can create a long-term strategic plan for this type of invasion and war. we went in with the idea that we could change something. we declared the end of the war but we're still there.

but we're still there. isis grew up while troops were still in iraq. we have not fully devested our interest from that country. even if we pulled out from the war and began securing the nation. so the idea that we could ramp up and that would calm things down. >> then you have taken us -- that question when you say isis began to brew, to emerge while we're on the ground there. doesn't that, whether that is a military or diplomatic society -- >> we're just saying don't bomb the countries of iraq and syria. no one declared war on former military farmers like timothy

mcveigh after he blew up the oklahoma city building. but what we have is a criminal group committing criminal atrocities. that doesn't mean they can be solved with more violence. they came to being because of the conditions set by the invasion in 2003 and that extepexten extended to syria. those groups will not become rolled into the political process through u.s. bombs, it doesn't work. >> we'll take a quick break and when we come back that's the topic i want us to move on which is the strategic question. whether any of the strategies will bring about the resolution that we're hoping for. so hold on for me. i'll ask if the commander and chief or generals are at odds. go! [sfx] roaring altima engine woah! ahhhha! we told people they were riding nissan's most advanced

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despite the president's promises, they acknowledge there may be a time when it is necessary to send them on missions. >> if i leave our advisors should accompany iraq troops on attacks on targets i will recommend that to the president. >> he said that other and over again, but it came with a strategy question. part of the key that makes the u.s. what it is is civilian leadership for the military. on the other hand military leaders are the ones that advise these leaders and being military they look for military solutions. >> no question, when the president calls a meeting of advisors, and the military is

there, they always say they have the ability to do it. we're giving $500 million to train syrian rebels in saudi arabia. it would only take $100 million for the complex crisis fund. this is not crisis prevention now it's crisis response. we need to start holding up the mechanisms of peace building. >> i want to been to gates, talking about what would be necessary to achieve the objective. >> they're not going to be able to be successful against isis in the air or commending on the ira iraqi forces or the sunni tribes

acting on their own. i think by continuing to repeat that the president, in effect, traps himself. >> there is a former secretary talking about they're not going to be able to be successful and that question of success -- here the president said degrade or destroy, but does success always necessarily mean a military destruction in order to constitution success? >> the military commanders don't always know. there was a big bush back because they didn't want to fight a counter insurgency fight. it is very muddy and difficult to do and it's not what they want to do. the army has gone through a big phase where they get rid of doctrine and try to focus on the conventional threat. so for them to suggest it it is

very big. but given the right support they can do that, can push them to the border. syria, i said this over and over, a completely different thing. i think the president was smart by forcing the political change in baghdad. and trust me, when a sunni triable leader says we're done with isis there will be heads in the streets. this is an autocratic society. when they say it's done, it is. >> americans, myself even, feel very differently this week than even a mont ago about engages isis. largely as a result of the

atrocities against civilians. are we downplaying the cost of war for those who will be on the front line? we want to protect these civilian lives whether they are american or british civilians, but the cost for the men and women who will fight. >> the men and women who are and were fighting are paying the costs of the last few years. the floor was about to cave in because they were holding backlogged veteran claims. i'm still dealing with affects of my first, last, and only deployment let alone people who went two, three, four times. and then there is the people of iraq and what they're dealing with. the idea that we can help people in iraq when we know that military solutions destroy the

country. people have less access to water, safety, food, infrastructure than they did ten years ago. the idea that we could rinse, wash, and repeat seems obscene to me. >> thank you for being here, i hope i can continue to call on you in the future. especially as we have this mission creep. >> thank you so my guests. still to come this morning, malcolm warner joining us, and bad feminist author roxanne gaye. coming up next. the good news no one is talking about. something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge

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remember the affordable care act? we have not heardment about it lately. it might be because the aca is

working. a new study was released this week and found that the number of uninsured americans fell by 8% to 41 million people. that is 3.8 million people who have insurance now that didn't before. there is, however, a major caveat. they provide full federal funding for states to exstand medicaid coverage. in states that decided to expand, the share of uninsured fell by three percentage points. in states that did not expand, mostly those politically dominated pi republicans, the rate dropped by just one percentage rate. a deline so small that it is statistically insignificant. it has sparked massive protests and movements because it is

outrageous that a state would decline to offer a life or death service to it's most vulnerable people. it could save them substantial money in the long run. it has been especially fierce in north carolina. they have fought back against the right-word lurch. that is why it is north carolina's senate between a democrat that rose the president wave in 2008. and those who instituted the most restrictive voter laws in the country and stagnated teacher pay that is the most important senate race in the nation. what if this feeling could last all week?

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carolina. a unique southern state where their behavior is a bit unpredictable. it tends to be identified with the carolina blue of their state college, but in 2008 you would have been hard pressed to tell the difference between north carolina and a true blue state like new york by looking at their electoral outcomes. that year they voted for a democratic president, u.s. senator, and governor. none were incumbents or white men. the results have a lot to do with the record 72% of black voters that turned out in that election. for the first time this year since she earned office, senator kate hagan will be up for reelection and she is running against the republican speaker of the house that presided over everything from the voter

suppression laws. this time barack obama will not be on the ticket, but he is, in many ways, at the heart of the race. they tried to tie hate into the president and she has tried to walk a fine line between embracing the president and distancing herself from his policies. that is practically a case study in the base of voter turnout. that is a lot on the line. the winner of the north carolina race could determine control of the u.s. senate. joining me now from raleigh is rob christensen. nice to have you this morning. we're looking at polls showing that the race between hagan and tilis is just razor thin. what kind of voter turn out does

hagan need to win. >> to a large degree, the selection will pivot on voter turnout. it's a problem everywhere in midterms. we don't have the appeal of a presidential race. it's also in part because both of these senate campaigns, neither one of them really have a strong emotional peal to their political basis. ha dpr hagan to the most liberal. even though this race is important, and it could determine a u.s. -- it has not generated a lot of water cooler talk here. it's a real problem for both

political parties in trying to get turn out. today at a congressional black caucus, they're getting a program this weekend to try to energize african-american votes. there was a big rally for conservative evangelicals. so turnout is very critical in this election. >> it's interesting that you make that point. most of the commercials don't even have candidates in them, most of them are teachers with right? they're saying thom tillis is horrible, or it's teachers saying it's not true. yf why is education at the center of a senate race? >> i think the way to look at

this race is the democrats want to localize this race and make it about north carolina issues and in particular about the legislature. the democrats are very angry. this has been traditionally a very moderate state. the republicans want to nationalize the race and make it about the president and obama care. so that is what the ad has been about. and -- >> sorry, but i just made the counterargument earlier when i said that part of hagan's problem is she is linked with dc, and tillis wants to bring it back to north carolina. telling his story, being a paper boy, where he lived, it felt

like he was trying to make it more about north carolina. but you see hagan making it about north carolina? >> the issue that has been the cutting issue, and the reason that all of the polls, the ad that has really shown movement for hagan is the teacher issue. . that is the issue that moved voters and it is really people blaming public legislature even though it is a local and not a national issue. which is more popular, north carolina, the president in north carolina, or the republican legislature which is also not doing very well. >> which politician and political group do you hate more and how does hating a political

group get you out to the polls. thank you so much. >> sure. >> up next, beyonce, feminism and the big debate. one little smile. one little laugh. honey bunny... (laughter) we would do anything for her. my name is kim bryant and my husband and i made a will on legalzoom. it was really easy to do. (baby noise...laughter) we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.com today and complete your will in minutes. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. this is holly. her long day of outdoor adventure starts with knee pain. and a choice. take 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. onward! then a little time to kick back. earn double hilton honors points with the 2 "x"

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talk to your doctor or pharmacist about your risk. i'll never forget that moment when i felt a double consciousness heal. there was a public display i never thought i would see in my lifetime. not the ought 2008 democratic presidential nomination of barack obama, i'm talking about the august 2014, just last month when beyonce at her performance at the mtv video music awards appeared with a -- and it was a some bollic act of the main streaming of feminist as a

public identity. that is just one of the topics of a new book entitled "feminism has concurred the culture." i don't think that in my lifetime, i'm 39, i have seen public popular feminist discourse more robust than it is now. when i was in high school, college, and first in the professional world, the women's movement was scorned. a good deal of this goes to the internet. she says it's better have this the beautiful people think that feminist is cool. and there is something thrilling about watching her stand in front of a lit up back splash of

the word. feminist internet discourse doesn't do much for me. no matter how robust it may be or how much money it brings up for the money or causes because it went viral on a particular day, people talk about everything on the different. the debate in the piece grows from there. right now i have them live as rebecca and judith join me here in the studio. why is poll dan-- pole dancing i love the partition video because she is doing an interesting feminist work when she says i'm in control of my sexuality because i'm going to put up the partition or put it down based on what i am consenting to do.

>> let's talk about the vma's, there's two parts to it. there is part that starts with the feminism, to the song "flawless," and the quote, and it goes to a song to blue ivy and it's wonderful. what comes before? i watched it with my 10-year-old daughter who is a huge beyonce fan. she has not seen many videos. what are some of the images we see in the first half. we see bondage, women in leather, women on their back with their feet up and the camera looking straight at their private parts. we see back up singers in outfits that make them look completely naked. after that she splashes up the word feminist. to me, there is a jars dysfunction. i asked my daughter what she

thought. she said i thought the first half was really weird. she didn't get the references or the pornographic references. i don't want my daughter watching that and thinking that's how women behave. i have a big problem with that. >> i would respond by saying i'm not sure -- there are all of those elements there, but there could also be critique there. a lot of what we're seeing includes a critique of the very thing that she is participating in. i don't think the critique is, you know, i don't think there is not a reason to point these things out, i'm all for debating all of this stuff. i'm thrilled. i love music, video, her work, what she says publicly. she talked about economic inequality, men having power, but i also think we should be

talking about this stuff. these questions of pole dancing, objectification. and that's not a bad thing. the fact that she is making us talk about those things is part of a feminist discourse. the culture and pop culture happens around us. >> we can debate her all day. but part of what i want to do is enter this into the pop culture aspect of it. this is part of where the debate really is between the two of you. so what is the value of it? i agree with the idea of fetishizing it. what does it mean if it's just a label versus having some content. >> i think she is the most talented pop star of her generation. she has taken power, control, she has agency, she is an amazing figure. if she is performing a critique, it was not being performed in the video that we were looking

at. but to normalize that kind of behavior, that kind of pornographic imagery as something that should be part of the general pop culture, i do have a problem with that. let me just say to answer your question. the role of pop culture is hugely important and it socializes us. does pop culture and endlessly talking about pop culture, you will find 50 pieces of girls for every piece of day care, right? that's what we'll talk about. >> so let me back up to another kind of icon moment. this was the title 9 version of feminism that sarah palin gave us. she said i'm a feminist that

recognizes my ability to play basketball and run for vice president is related to the fact that girls need opportunities. in a similar way making use of the word. >> the word is up for anybody that wants to use it. this is false that there it is like a club with member cards. it is always changing means, it's level of inclusivity and exclusivity. anyone can call themselves a feminist. once you do you enter what has been through the history of the women's movement, and the other social movements, a huge debate about what it means, right? that's why i think it's good that we talk about it in regard to pop culture. it's good there is feminism in there. >> i also wonder if part of the reason why the internet and pop

culture aspect, that's where they find the capacity to have voice not determined by gate keepers at all of the officially sanctioned places to have debate about this. i have angst about twitter too, but it also feels like that's where people who don't have a show get to say what they want to say. >> and we don't have to like everything that comes into the conversation. sarah palin is right, she is a product of feminism. she is a product of title 9, her existence, there is all kind of forces at work there too, but complicating the conversation is not a bad thing. that's something like beyonce or someone in the corporate realm, sheryl sandberg.

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tuesday the nfl players union appealed the suspension of ray rice. elevator surveillance video showed him punching his now wife. they are trying to determine what the nfl knew and when they knew it. roger goodell addressed that on friday. >> do you still believe that to the best of your knowledge no one in the nfl office has seen the ray rice video before if

surfaced on tmz. >> later that day espn released a report accused goodell and the league of taking a passive approach of finding out what happened that night. according to the story. details of which we have not independently confirmed, just hours after ray rice knocked out his fiance, darren sanders reached an atlantic city police officer by phone. sanders quickly relayed the damming videos play by play to team executives in baltimore. the ravens organization released this statement that the report contained numerous errors,

inaccuraci inaccuracies, false assumptions. they will address all of them after our trip to cleveland for sunday's game against the browns. when the dispute leaves the future of his professional football career hanging in the balance, the fate of his jersey has been sealed. this is a line of fans waiting to rid themselves of the rice number 27 jersey. fans were able to come and return their rice jerseys and exchange them for another player on the raven's active roster. at the end of two days, 7,000 fans came to make a decision based on principal. >> no one wants to wear ray rice shirt out. so we thought we would exchange it for anything, we don't care. >> we're teaching him about

hitting and not hitting to we're going with somebody not doing shoes sort of things right now. >> joining me now is a cohost of espn 2's "highly questionable" you're with espn, but you're not part of that reporting. just how much sort of, let's say fumbling is the nfl doing in this moment around the rice issue. >> they have not gotten a single thing right. it's so bad that you read that story and the only person that comes out looking better than he had beforehand is actually ray rice. and then what is going on with the ravens themselves. everyone made all of these decisions from point a to point b. they're lost. >> you know it feels to me, i keep -- i'm having this angst.

on the one hand ray rice's actions are abominable. the way the nfl is acting as an employer is deeply troubling to me. >> there is two separate issues flp flp. there is what took place in the elevator. after that happened there is a tern thing that you have to be fair with how you deal with ray rice. we decided the two-game suspension was too light. he was the guy that nobody would root for. everybody has come down on him, a suspension for no one ever thought an indefinite suspension was necessary before. he lied to us, he did this and that and now that seems to be falling apart. >> even listening to those fans as they return those jerseys, which i get, but that notion of now we will make this a problem

that is exclusively a rice problem rather than a league problem. as long as i exchange my jersey, to hear an nfl fan say i want to teach my son not to hit, it's football. hitting is what they're paid to do. i wonder if there is a way in which we all get to cleanse ourselves by being against ray rice so we don't have to address the larger issues of violence. >> the penn state case was another one. the ray rice thing creates a dilemma. if you trade the ray rice jersey for a suggs jersey, what are you doing. >> my favorite cleansing is in beer. anheuser-busch is indicating

they no long er. an alcohol company is mad about violence when we know to what extent capitol is linked to violence. >> they have an ironic set of politics given how it is they make their billions of dollars. the beer companies are telling you we don't know how we felt about a dry who was drunk in an elevator. >> drunk busch products instead of ray rice was drunk on? >> i don't know. >> did goodell survive this and should he survive it? >> the answer is of course not. the fact that they had a press conference this weekend and you knew there was not a single thing he could do to make it better. if he is incapable of saying

thinking you generally need a new leader. the owners really like roger goode goodell. and the favors he has done for certain owners and they go back and forth and they have his back. but when the billions start talking and you have to wonder if the people necessary to force roger goodell out are saying "if it happens it happens." >> i just want to listen for a moment when one of the reporters asked him about justifying not having any african-american women part of the new domestic violence group. >> can you justify not having an african-american as part of that group of women that you hired to look into sexual assault and domestic violence. >> well, that's not true, we have internal experts that have

been working on this welcome people of color, that are women and men. they have been involved with this process from the beginning. >> we have internal women and men working on the process. >> he basically said i have a binder full of women and i'm assuming one or two of them are black. i think they got to the end of the week and someone said you know we don't have a black woman, and they're -- fine, we just got to do this. everything that has gone so wrong and badly, that's the one detail they missed it and said people will just have to be mad. >> there will be more on the nfl and their beleaguered commissioner next. we're going to talk about the issue of angry black women. i know you heart about that. and we'll talk to malcolm jammal warner who is joining us to look at our fall tv season.

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welcome back. on friday, roger goodell went before the press to do damage control after a spate of players cast a national spotlight on the league's progress with domestic violence. he announced a number of changes that the nfl would be undertaking including the policies and preventing abuse for all players and staff. he made it clear there was one thing that would be remaining the same. >> have you considered resigning at any point throughout this? >> i have not, i'm more focused on doing my job. and doing the best of my ability. i understand when people are critical of your performance, but we have a lot of work to do, that's my focus.

>> the work expanded to include domestic assaults against a female partner and domestic violence against children after minnesota vikings player adrian peterson was charged after using a wood switch and belt on his son when disciplining him. >> what's the message to the mother with the kids who have peterson jerseys and doesn't know what to tell them? >> we're like a brother society in several ways. while i'm disappointed in what he was involved with, we want to see the facts. i think what we see is tragic and it's hard to look at. i have two daughters that are 13. it's very difficult to see. we have to allow the facts to proceed, but the important message for all of us as parents

is that our children will make mistakes. they need to learn how to take responsibility and be accountable for those mistakes and deal with those. >> but goodell doesn't have to look far because we know at least one fact that peterson himself admitted to in a statement. he said i have to live with the fact that when i disciplined my son the way i was disciplined as a child i caused a injury that i did not intend to happen. a majority of americans, nearly 70%, support the use of corporal punishment to discipline a child. fact, although there is a higher p percentage of african-americans think that corporate punishment

is not discriminated by race. a 73% of white americans also think that spanking a child is an acceptable form of punishment. it leaves us with this final fact. a national con census that violence is not okay against a smaller and more vulnerable person does not apply to the smallest and most vulnerable people among us. joining me now a professor of psychology. and dr. stacey patton. and we have the cohost of espn 2's "highly questionable."

is corporal punishment the last form of acceptable domestic violence? >> i think it is. the stats that you mentioned are pretty breath taking 80% to 90% of participants do it, but you have a very small group of people who use corporate punishment that don't think they're doing anything wrong. it's hard to get this type of agreement on any issue. >> it was, for me, stunning to see the difference between the ray rice reaction from people saying that is clearly wrong, or with adrian, people saying my mama beat me. >> i think there is a kind of nostalgia at operation here. you have ray rice participating

saying this is how my mama raised me, i'm successful because of the whippings i got, our own president obama has commented about how once upon a time, if you were acting out someone in the community could snatch you up and whip you. i thought thank god you can't do that any more. >> your golden age past is a violent one. we hear the commissioner saying we're just here in the nfl we're just a himicrocausism of societ. is there any more likely today so that the punishment of children, using spanking or switches is less like tlly to b supported. >> yeah, there is a good chance that the people we're talking

about here hear this and don't understand what the issue is. most people didn't until they saw the photographs if is turned into a broader discussion where even if you're a supporter of corporal punishment, you still don't think those pictures are appropriate. >> it seems to me like the conversation around domestic violence with one's female partner is an absolute, men don't hit women, full stop. but it is apparently perfectly feen fine if it's an adult punishing a child, that is only harsh, heavy, or so violent. >> that's the psychology. my mom and dad came from

mississippi, they were whipped with switches, they whipped us with belts. the day i got beat by my dad, it was the most terrifying day of my life. i'm convinced that it starts in the home. there is a way in which faith based people justified the treatment of our children. it is not in the bible at all. >> no, what is in the bible is suffer the little children who come on to me and he does not then begin to beat them with a switch. as much as this turned into a race conversation, the idea that adrian peterson was engaging in racial practices, there is a regional gap in spanking. in the south, there is more

people who support spanks, and a religious gap. >> i think that is about the interpretation of skricripture. i think the only way to change the spiral of violence is to start in the home and to have an educated and important conversation. the word rod means authority. that is genital and compassionate, is a different authority than a switch, spank, spoon, or fist. if a child is beat, a child will learn to use might if a child is kicked, a child will learn to use violence. >> on this topic, i wonder, for a profession that needs people to use violence and force,

you're not going to chat with the offensive linemen about whether or not maybe he will get out of your way, that's not how it works. there would be a reason to think that in the context of this support there would be more people for who it is a way to solve problems. >> no, it seems reasonable because they solve problems. adrian peterson said he has some concept of it. can you imagine the threshold of adrian peterson has and he is transitioning it over to dealing with a child. and he has no idea that what he did was so out of bounds and out of control? i think it is part of why people got really hopped up about this issue.

>> yeah, thank you for joining us. i'm going to come back and have more with my substantial on this question when we come back. two. (singing) snack time and lunch. (singing) snack time and lunch. gogurt because lunch needs some fun. this is charlie. his long day of doing it himself starts with back pain... and a choice. take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. honey, you did it! baby laughs! you would need like a bunch of those to clean this mess. [ kc ] you're probably right. hi, cascade kitchen counselor. 1 pac of cascade complete cleans tough food better than 6 pacs of the bargain brand combined. cascade. beyond clean and shine. every time. for over 19 million people. [ mom ] with life insurance, we're not just insuring our lives... we're helping protect his. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real.

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we're back to talk about parenting and corporal punishment. whether there is an ethical or moral claim. how much does corporal punishment work in the long term verse the short term. >> this is the problem that underlies lots of disfunctional parenting. if you hit your kid, they will stop doing what they're doing in that moment, parents are suckered in by that trade. we know that in the long term, the effects are opposite. research really looked at it in

three different ways. we looked at externalizing problems, aggression, acting out, and kids subjected to corporal punishment have higher levels of that. we look at anxiety and depression. and even cognitive effects. so we know there is all sorts of negative effects. as great as it works in the moment, we try to get parents to think more long term. >> so all that we know that corporal punishment is not a black thing, it's not racialized. particularly for african-american men, raised by single moms, they said my mom had to do this. and part of what they're saying is there is so much pathology,

the stakes are high for us. >> the stakes are high. there is a tradition of praising black mothers. tupac said you were a crack fiend you were always a black queen. there is a celebration of mother. even if she damaged us in the process of trying to do as good as she could. i think when back people are questioned about using corporal punishment against children we get defensive because we're operating in a ray sis frame work, a society that fundamentally devalues them. so a response is a way to protect and show love and we view this as responsible parenting. >> we want to say hey, don't be mad at me, be mad at the officer that shoots my unarmed child.

we recognize the way that that kind of pathology will be put on to relatively powerless black women, but not on to officials with an enormous amount of power. >> that's the contradiction. we see all of this righteous indignation, but at the same time we live in a country that does not call out prison wardens, police, and neighborhood watchmen that shoot our children in the speech. >> it feels like a great challenge that builds a ledge of love, respect, and humanity around our children in relation to racist and homophobic societies. sometimes parents experience the aftereffects on themselves. >> the first important thing to

do is acknowledge that parenting is hard. it's really difficult work. >> amen. >> everybody is not called today do it. i think this concept that parents are holding children on behavior of their god or higher power. there is a way that the letic of love, what does love look like? i think what love looks like is it needs to look like parents need support. it takes a village. what kind of communities they need to be in so they can learn how to use the best kinds of kills, timeout, take time, pull the child out of the environment, speak slowly. that takes practice and time. we have to have grace when parents make mistakes and invite them to try new behaviors. >> and if it takes time, and it takes the patience, it may also mean that you're not working three jobs, worried about health care, if you can put food on the

table, all of those policy decisions we make make it harder or easier for parents. thank you to my guests. there is so much more on this, but we have a lot more in this show today as well. still to come this morning, roxanne gaye is coming. you'll want to know this bad feminist. first, did you hear the one about shondra rhymes? now there's even more of the amazing cinnamon taste you love on cinnamon toast crunch. crave those crazy squares even more. where you can explore super destinations and do everything under the sun. 12 brands. more hotels than anyone else in the world. save up to 25% and earn bonus points when you book at wyndhamrewards.com.

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it says when shonda writes her auto biography, it should be called "how to get away with being an angry black woman." it prompted my smart responses. it is boggling that a "new york times" television critic cannot write about a black woman without calling on the oddest racist stereotypes about a black woman. they go on to enumerate each of them. of course ms. rhimes herself took to twitter. did you know you were an angry

black woman? rhimes is not the angry black woman creator. that honor belongs to pete nowalk. apparently we can be "angry black women" together because i didn't know i was one either. with so many smart responses already recorded, i thought we should try something different. what if we rewrote the article about another hotly anticipated show in the fall lineup. imagine this. wrought in their creator's image. when aaron sorken writes is autobiography, it should be "how to get away with being an angry white man." it is another series from sorken that show cases a powerful and

intimidating white man. this one, a blustering monologue prone workplace bully. and that clinches it, mr. sorken, who has done more to reset the image of white men on television more than anyone since dr. phil. sorken's white men can and do get angry. not written for tv, but one of the more volcanic on screen melt downs in tv history belongs to colonel nathan jessup in "a few good men." his are not like the bossy

mouthy salt of the earth working class men that have been scalding and fuming on screen. they're not as benign and reassuming as chris trager on "parks and recreation." think about how he was literally laying the foundation for the vice presidential cam bane of paul ryan. he is actual, even sexy in a slightly menacing way. but the actor doesn't look like the typical star of a network drama, ignoring the narrow beauty standards that some people are held to. he picked a performer who was older, punchier, and less beautiful than say patrick dempsey or scott foley. he and his characters are walking and talking all over the

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start here. 30 years ago, a show became a national senation. it brought family rituals, relateble family strife, and living room dancing. i'm talking about "the cosby show." they won six emmys and a golden globe. >> i know. >> you know what? >> i know what you're going to say. and it's under control, so no problem. >> how do you expect to get into college with grades like this. >> see, i'm not going to college. >> i am going to get through high school, and get a job like regular people. >> for those of us that grew up

watching them every thursday night at 8:00 the show provided unity. as i wrote in my book "bashershops, bibles, and b.e.t." it ended in 1992 and the show had a dallasing impact on pop culture and possibly politics. in 2008 they started using "the huxta huxtable effect." how much have they influenced our social and political understanding of black families. joining me is corey murray. and jo marie peyton.

we have kevin fowler, and in boston, an actor and producer with an extensive resumé, but he was also one of the cosby kids, theo. >> you now get as an adult the impact of what the show was, but when you were 18, were you aware of the impact of the show? >> it is always difficult when you're in the middle of it to have a full appreciation of everything going on. but the thing that always stood out is while we were getting criticized for the show not being a real portrayal of black families, we were getting tens of thousands of letters from people thanks us from the show. people says we are the huxtables. my father is a doctor, my mother

is a lawyer, thank you for representing us. we were not just being an entertaining sitcom, but we were having a social impact. of course just like my experience with the airmen, nothing is legitimatized until it gets on television. >> it has been an interesting experience for me having a show how powerful even a few minutes on air can be. i wonder if it has changed. the land of cable, netflix, and on demand. back then you had to watch it at that moment. you had to watch it and we awe saul it at the same time on thursday night. >> sure, i think there is a

difference in the impact. i think we're also not seeing the type of programming that is, you know, that still has that kind of social impact. i think now when we talk about shows that we have on dvr, it's more for, you know, the entertainment effect. >> hold for me a second, talk about the entertainment effect for a second. "family matters," the huxtables. they first must entertain. if they're not good, funny, or entertaining, people will not watch them. a bunch of high-minded role modelling does not make people tune in and watch. >> you're right we started out, i think can a different kind of vehicle when we initially started with the central family, and then we brought in the urkle character. we were a good soup and urkle

was the salt. they wanted that funny, that other thing in there and it turned into another animal. >> just as much, the criticism of the class bias, there was a criticism of the racial pantomime that some people saw in the urkle character. he got to a certain age and people didn't want his pants lifted that high because his business was there. a mother came in for lunch one day and she said i don't know what to do about jaleel. so when he changed into the stephan character, i wanted him

to evolve instead of putting him as a machine, but he was so funny and he was an icon. >> we were just talking about shonda rhimes, some of the earliest shows, "good times" and "stanford and sons." i quite honestly,ly take a norman leer over a tyler perry any day of the week. >> not every representation of the black identity was represented in these tv shows. there was something important about the fact that cost by occasionally had story lines about what it was like to be a black person at the time. and it was the most popular tv show in the country. that didn't solve racism, but it

got people to stop thinking about stereotypes and to maybe change minds a little bit. >> you did not solve racism, you are president obama it turns out, but in this moesmt as you reflect on what our current offerings are, some of them, exciting new offerings, some of them are feeling reactionary, is there something to be said for just the number of faces? just the sort of multiplicity, the possibilities of what we can see on air? >> i think there are always possibilities. and you know the whole diversity issue is, you know, the topic of the day. but the thing that i have always maintained was what was -- what made the huxtables and the cosby show special, it's not that they

were just upper middle class. it's not just that they were professionals, it was the execution of the comedy. it was not predicated on being black in america. there was no episodes that talked about how hard it was being black in america. the show was not a -- the show was not about a black family, it was about a loving family that happened to be black. >> and with black music and black art on the wall, there was a lot of blackness even without necessarily race struggle. >> yes, they just were, they didn't have to wear the blackness on their sleeve. they just were. i think the issue with a lot of the way that people of color are written on television, they're written through a certain filter so they can have all of the black affectations. that's not what made cosby special. i always maintained that if you

give black characters higher economic status, you give them a profession, but they act in the same stereotypical ways, you're not seeing anything different. >> i always thought it was funny that he was an obgyn. thank you for joining us. i'm going to bring in the rest of this panel when we come back. i'm talking to my "essence" colleague.

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we have been talking about "the cosby show." which made waves. but i want to talk about 2014's headline up and how tv is fully in cover. >> over at the "essence" office,

we love shonda rhimes. i just got a sneak peek of "how to get away with murder." i'm already like for the week of -- the first week of october so i can see what happens next. >> so when you bring up shondra rhimes, and shows like "scandal." they don't meet the typical role of women. do you think it's a good thing? >> i think it's wonderful because it gives you a wide scope of the fact that we are different. we're not pigeon toed into a little circle they want to put us in. even with our show, and back

"the cosby show." the comparisons, you take with you in a character some of what you learned. i took some of my mother and grandmother with me. we are not all the same. >> you don't all have the same black mama. >> absolutely. so when i see these different women on tv and all of the different roles and professions and things, i'm happy and excited to see it. even some of the tyler perry stuff. i know characters just like some of the people on the shows. but still i know some people just like them and there is nothing wrong with us being different and people experiencing that we're have very group of people in different brackets as far as financial and everything else. we are who we are, it is what it is. >> i want to play a little from the show that my daughter is most looking forward to, this is

"blackish." let's play just a little bit of "blackish." >> i'm andre johnson. i have a great career, a spectacular house, and a loving family i'm surrounded by every day. >> i need my family to be black, not blackish. >> why don't we take a black break and go get some white yogurt. >> my kid, growing up in a postracial, obama world, will be playful around the question of race. >> "blackish" is very funny and smartly written. and it's airing after modern family which is the biggest comedy platform that abc has. so it will appeal to a wide

audience. >> i wonder about the "not just a black audience" caveat that happens. i think about a cosby effect fairty, or will and grace helping to pave the way around changes requirements for marriage equality. if it was just for a black audience, that's okay, too, and they were apparently the only ones watching "girlfriends." >> yeah, can you realize in watching the show how funny and missed she is. she is a great actress. and the show is totally fun, one of my favorite lines, he gets made president of the urban division. and he said i'm just president of the black stuff now? and it is really based on the creator. that is his life, and it goes

back to those letters that malcolm jammal warner talked about. >> part of the danger of the creators image, what we saw in the "new york times" this week with the angry black woman narrative cast on to shond shonda rhimes, i want to play a little bit of this show in case people don't know what it is. >> "how to get away with murder." >> here we go. >> i will not be teaching you how to study the law or theorize about it, but rather how to practice it, in a courtroom, like a real lawyer. >> so this extraordinary tenured law professor who is doing this, i'm looking at her like "yes!" and she is written about saying she is a weird reflection of the

writer, who is a white guy. does she just look mad to everybody else? >> i don't think so, i think they look mad to some white folks. so some white folks, not all of them. i think when you're independent black woman, and you vocalize your opinion about something, the truth does hurt some people pause it's a slap in the face, okay? i think sometimes they can -- they think we're angry when we're just, a lot of times we are angry, but most times we're serious and we want you to listen and understand what we have to say. >> and you know, being angry might mean we're angry about something. thank you to my guests. up next, author of "bad feminist" will be here. breathi] [ inhales deeply ] [ sighs ]

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afteq÷ years and years of working to be a good feminist, r just read a new book helping me embrace being a bad one.koxdokçó roxanne gaye's new book of essays,3w she writes, t(quote, not trying took say i'm right, m just trying to do some good in this +world,w3 trying to makei] noise with my bringing while also being myself. a woman who loves pinkc and liks to get freaky and sometimes on the moral high ground. now a "new york times" best seller is bringing the conversation to a wider audience. and her collectionz3í of essays

to be a blackxd feminist straddling my angst abwáb the vulnerability of black men in the context, for example, of ferguson. >> yeah. >> and the vulnerability of black women at the hands of blo-5 as we are seeing, for example, in the context of qjany rice. how do we start trying to á$qr#ficult where we stand? >>çó içó think we just look at nuance. andfá we have to understand tha life is difficult for all of black peorl and we cannot forget the struggles of black women just because the newsñiçó prefers tol the stories of black men because black women get stopped all the time by the police. lord knows i do becauselp i hapn ñ while black. andfá so it's important we continue to prioritize these stories. and we can critique ourselves. we can't just let anything go. ray rice did ai] bad thing.ok adrian peterson did a bad thing, and so racial solidarity is well and good, but we achieve nothing jju the worst o rise. >> in at( world where tv is so powerful, does writing still >> absolvd1e9ññi

writing matters more than ever. and i have to believe that so i can keep making a living. but i also know that words matter because ofñi the impact i'veçó seen my book have and because of the impact, quite frankly that books have had on >> we missed youjf yesterday. >> thanks. >> anyway, melissa, thank you for that. comin

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celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. and now celebrex may be available for as little as $4 a month. terms and conditions apply. to learn more, go to celebrex.com.

we're going to take you live to the streets of new york to so what exactly do the activists want? new details emerging on how a man can leap the fence and sprint right through to the front door. joining us in this video, if not, will a thousand searchers be able to uncover clues in the disappearance of a virginia college student. and it's a topic not being talked about in the nfl's domestic violence controversy. how this soccer star fit into the picture? >> hey there, everyone, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we have new reaction today after a man with a knife jumped a white house fence making it through the front door before he was apprehended.