it's no wonder more people choose delta than any other airline. ♪ monday monday >> i would have loved to seen that tape. should we do more to get that information in the future, that's a question i want. >> we found out by one phone

call. you guys have a whole legal department. >> okay, you know that things are not going well when you lose the moral high grounds to a tmz reporter. the single greatest reaction to the entire goodell press conference came from wide receiver sidney rice who wrote simply boo this man. really that says it all. bravo, sidney. bravo. >> oh, my goodness. it's monday. but quite a weekend it was. that was hard to watch. i would love to hear something from them that gives you hope but every time roger goodell does a press conference it doesn't seem to make it better. >> really. just painful, wasn't it? >> it was. very lawyerly. what a lot of people want to see from the nfl is emotion, they have a problem and they know they did something wrong. talking points developed over the previous ten days when we hadn't heard from him.

but the games went on yesterday. i'm sure they set more ratings records and people won't stop watching. >> he's very good at making a lot of money for a lot of owners and he's not very good at -- >> crisis control. >> the scandal took off and scrambling and now they are caught in legal mumbo jumbo and just paralyzed. there are some things happening and a lot of developments over the weekend. wes moore is here. best selling author. let's start with what at the white house. did you guys see this? >> yeah. >> the secret service. >> how did that happen? >> i don't think it's ever happened before, the secret service can't remember. the secret service is launching a full review of its procedures after a pair of security breaches. the "new york times" say officials are considering checkpoints several blocks away to screen tourists and other visitors to conduct bag checks. the secret service is facing

skrong criticism after a man carrying a knife jumped a nine-foot high fence at the white house on friday evening. he then ran about 100 yards across the north lawn and then entered an unlocked door to the white house. president obama and his family were not home. they had left, i think, earlier that day and the guard took the man into custody. the alleged intruder is identified as omar gonzalez, an iraq swrart. family members say gonzalez has been living out of a truck the last few years and suffers from post traumatic stress disorder. he's expected to be in court today. one of the reports i read said he was a trained sniper as his position. less than 24 hours later another man was arrested for pulling his car into a screening area and refusing to leave. officials say the secret service is trying to determine why attack dogs were not used when it became clear a man had jumped the fence or why the front door of the white house was not lock when an alarm went off.

republican congressman peter king of new york is demanding a full investigation calling the security breach quote absolutely inexcusable. >> the fact they say he wasn't brought down because they didn't think he a weapon. company have had a body bomb, a vest on. he had a knife. there could be a lot of conspiracies against the president, a lot of complex assassination plots. this is the most basic simple type of procedure and how anyone especially in these days of isis and we're concerned about terrorist attacks someone could get into the white house without being stopped is inexcusable. >> in a statement the white house says president obama has full confidence in the men and women of the secret service. >> that's stunning, willie. walks in the front door of the white house. >> stunning. how did he get that far? >> i don't know how he got that far. i don't know why the front door of the white house is wide-open. let's go to michael schmidt who is writing about this. how it is possible a man not only scales the fence and makes it 100 yards without being

stopped and literally walks in the front doofrt white house. how indict happen? >> i think that senior secret service officials are pretty disappointed in what happened and they clearly know there's a problem here. they say look we don't have the resources to put an officer every five feet on the fence of the white house. but we have a plan here. we have these dogs. they should have been unmuzzled and sent immediately to stop this guy. they have a policy basically of not shooting people that look unarmed. some people say that policy is flawed. as peter king said you could have explosives one. this guy had a knife on him. the most important thing is that they have these attack dogs and they weren't used. >> we saw an incident, i don't know if it was last week or the week before where the dogs were deployed. the man didn't make it halfway across. have you said at all why in this case the dogs didn't make it out? >> no. that's what they really want answers to. there's more than one of these

dogs on the white house grounds at all times. and basically what -- the dogs are trained as soon as their muzzle comes off and they come off the leash they are supposed to go after whoever is in front of them. now what people say is they don't use the dogs that often because they are afraid of who the dogs may actually attack. let's say you have different security officers running at this guy, will the dog know to go after the intruder. >> i would hope we've trained them well enough. mika, i'm sorry, i don't know about whether you shoot somebody before they get to the white house door, but i will say this. you do everything you can to stop that person once they move past the gate. if this guy is armed with explosives. >> 100 yards. in the door. >> absolutely no excuse. >> wes? >> i'm sorry, i hate to say it, i hate to just say it, if you jump over the fence and you

start bolting towards the white house and they can't stop up before he gets into the white house somebody needs to shoot him and take him down. hopefully a sharpshooter can take him down. i say if you get over the fence then you have to understand that you could be killed. >> it should be a common understanding if you decide -- >> i thought it was. >> then what's coming to you is what's coming to you. >> yeah. >> you're not just trespassing on private property you're violating national security. there needs to be an understanding >> you're violating national security. for anybody that sounds harsh shoot on sight, if the president is there, if the president was there, if somebody else was there, mika, we're talking about a national security issue here. talking about the commander-in-chief in very difficult times. the last thing we need is a constitutional crisis because secret service -- who is running the secret service? what is wrong with this agency?

they got the whole stripper thing down. i don't mean to be cold about it. this is the biggest scandal of all. that you leave the white house open to a guy scaling a nine-foot -- seriously? scaling a nine-foot fence? >> right threw could stop him. >> right there. what are they doing. what are they looking at? don't tell me you don't have the budget to stop this. >> i would say that in the past few weeks we have, all we heard about is the heightened state of alert we're in and how accessible terrorists are to this country. >> it's inexcusable. >> how we should be in full alert and a guy jumps the fence of a white house and runs in the door. they are conducting a full review. we should follow that closely and have more coming up. in his first news conference since the ray rice scandal erupted roger goodell apologized for his handling of the case. >> did he apologize for the

handling of the press conference. >> he promised new personal conduct policies but he faced widespread criticism for what he did and did not say. the "new york post" called the appearance uninspiring which i think having seen it myself i don't know what you think but that's a pretty good word for it. a column in the "los angeles times" reads quote this should be the final straw for roger goodell. "the washington post" said goodell was short on specifics including numerous times he was asked for details about the league's efforts to obtain the ray rice elevator video. something is missing in the answer. and what the year told football officials about the incident. >> we asked for it on several occasions according to our security department. we went through it. we asked for it on several occasions over the spring, all the way through june from february through june. i'm confident that our people did that. >> what did he say?

>> the one issue with this is this is now a matter of appeal. as you know the nfl p.a. has appeal this. it's a matter that's going taken up in appeal. >> you talking about transparency. what did he say >> i'm telling you right now it's inset with what he told us. i would have loved to seen that tape. should we do more to get that information in the future? that's a question i want -- >> mr. commissioner we found out by one phone call. you guys have a whole legal department. you can explain that. >> i can't explain how you got the information. only you can do that. >> he did. he said one phone call. >> that was really bad. >> yeah. >> just really bad. >> it was. >> willie, he was asked several times what did ray rice tell you and he couldn't answer that question. >> it was pretty remarkable how little they got their story straight now with weeks to come up with it. there's this report out on

friday from espn, an investigative reporter there and people should go through and read that. it lays out a timeline and some things we haven't heard before. including john harbaugh the head coach of ravens wanted to cut ray ricin february and out on an island alone, the director of personnel said we got to get rid of this guy and he got push back from the top. the ravens denied. also a report that the owner of the ravens texted ray rice at one point and said hey before he's been released it's great having you here. want you to know there's always a job here. ray rice took that they want me to keep quiet and there's something four at the end of this if you lay low. >> this report came out right after roger goodell had his press conference. >> about harbaugh saying he should leave the team. >> good for harbaugh. >> about when the ravens started hearing exactly what happened.

this report, again still investigation that was taking place but this report is pretty damning because it contradicts what roger goodell said during that press conference. >> something is just not right and we've known that from the very beginning. stilted answers. something -- i don't want to say they are hiding something but they certainly aren't being transparent. >> i think they are stuck in legal what they can and can't say at this point for all sorts of different legal angles. and just looks -- he looks nervous. i think that's the biggest takeaway he looks incredibly nervous every time he answer as question which i know isn't -- doesn't really necessarily say what's missing but it does feel like something is missing and sometimes when you just become completely transparent, come clean and say we messed up which he tried to say you feel it from the person. >> apparently the owner, willie,

the owners are hanging with him, right? >> a lot of them are in this independent investigation led by the former fbi director is also led by two of the owners who are good friends of roger goodell. a lot of people are saying how independent is this investigation when it's headed up and chaired by a couple of the owners. >> we have to get some owners on. i want to get to one more story here, bill clinton over the weekend made news. he says his wife took the right position as secretary of state when she pushed to arm the syrian rebels. at the time hillary clinton was on the losing end of that debate with the administration, a lot of people looking at some of the positions that she's held all the way back to supporting the war in iraq. >> there's a lot of back and forth. the president of the united states said hillary's position was fantasy as ron fournier asked on friday how did it go from being fantasy to being policy. >> right. >> in less than a month.

bill clinton seemed to take a slight jab. >> i think this is interesting on a number of levels politically especially the question is does she use her husband or does her husband make himself useful as sort of the policy person to give her credibility? here's bill clinton saying hillary clinton made the right call. >> i agree with her and i would have taken the chance. i also agree with her when she said we can't know whether it would have worked or not. since isis has plenty of money, one of the great bank robbers in human history among other things. they were going to get their weapons one way or another. i would have risked it. besides when we were talking about doing it there was no isis. >> wow. >> okay. >> what do you make of that? >> i think you've got bill clinton now entered into the fray. you'll see it during the campaign -- willie this is very

clearly laying out the clintons versus barack obama. >> it's not the first time we've seen it. over the course of this book tour there's little, i wouldn't call it jabs -- she's distinguishing herself from president obama on matters of foreign policy. >> i think she's looking at a lot of poll numbers and realizes she has to. unless the poll numbers increase for the president it's very difficult for a person from the same party to be successful. >> you got a former president backing the policies of a current president to try to elect the next president. it just happens the former president's approval ratings are 14% higher in the current poll than the current president. 42%, bill clinton at 56%. i have feeling he'll be used to prop up her, some democrats it may be skeptical. >> i think it could be

fascinating or predictable. i'm not sure if it helps her. still ahead on "morning joe," kansas city john kerry joins us for an exclusive "morning joe" interview in our 7:00 hour. and then google's executive chairman erick schmidt will be here. up next lois lerner breaks her silence speaking out for the first time since the irs scandal broke 16 months ago. plus police appear to be closing in on the man who shot and killed two pennsylvania state troopers. details are next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you can do just that. with our visionary cloud infrastructure, global broadband network and custom communications solutions,

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♪ all right. it's time now to take a look at the morning papers. the philadelphia ininquirer, the manhunt for the survivalist accused of shooting two pennsylvania state troopers, one fatally enters day ten.

over the weekend police recovered items believed to have been left by 31-year-old erick frein, possibly even the weapon used in the shootings. authorities say frein likely planned this attack for months and believe they are closing in on the suspect. >> the "boston herald" three soldiers from the afghanistan national army have gone missing while visiting cape cod. two captains and a major reportedly were staying at the air force base but last seen at a nearby mall. the national guard says they believe there's no danger to the public but nevertheless multiple state and local agencies are searching for the three. >> let's go "usa today." experts predict the iphone 6 and 6 plus could be apple's biggest phone launch yet. projections estimate apple may have sold between 7 and 9 million phones over the weekend, including the 4 million sold in the first 24 hours of the pre-sale. the final tally will be in -- >> you're going to get a big

one, right? >> i don't know. what your getting me. >> the big one. because like the samsung, right? >> i have a samsung. >> like a 40-inch plasma screen. >> i like my plasma screen. i carry it in the brief case. how else am i supposed to see it. >> doesn't orchestrate for guys. where do you put it. when it's that big what do you do with it. >> it's hard. i don't know. >> right. >> find the right spot. >> "wall street journal" embattled celebrity chef paula deen has purchased the right to her shows and other videos. her company paula deen ventures says the footage will be used in her online tv network which launches later this week. subscribers will pay $10 a month to access videos. "detroit free press," the lions linebacker got cocky yesterday.

he injured himself while celebrate his drive ending sack of rodgers in the first quarter. he was mimicking the quarterback's touchdown celebration when his knee gave out and he. crumpled to the ground. he was able to walk off the field on his own but he left -- >> oh, my lord. >> will undergo an mri today. >> very bad. >> you know, the guys that drive me crazy, losing 53-3 and they will get a first down. they do a back flip. >> exactly. >> the d backs will go back and break up the pass and in the meantime there's six flags behind them. >> you went to nashville this weekend. >> i was. >> they started out strong. >> they hung in with south carolina. up 14-0 at one point.

got to meet the new coach. things going in the right direction. >> they are picking up speed. >> they are improving every week. >> come on. >> i have full confidence in the coach. >> let's go to politico. we've courthouse correspondent there is mike allen. mike tell bus this exclusive interview you have with lois lerner. what's the new information? >> this irs official who took the fifth and was the symbol of the scandal where right-wing groups were being denied nonprofit status she's basically been in hiding. she's gotten death threats, hate mail, hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills, but she sat down for two hours with politico. this is an example of a reporter really working a beat. rachel covers the irs for politico's pro tax service and spent months on this story. in their conversation lois lerner was defiant.

she said she had done nothing wrong. she said she was proud of what she had done. willie in both her conversation and in the other reporting that rachel did for this piece we see why she drives republicans nuts. and why congress isn't going let this go. she says she's not a political person and yet she's registered democrat. she said well it's not realistic to say public servants can't have views i just didn't let my views affect my work. second, she clearly had a short fuse, was difficult to work with. she admitted that. said she was passionate but never held a grudge. her fellow co-workers it's clear from these interviews could have helped her get out of this jam. and third, she helped create the bottleneck and confusion that got these conservatives so upset. she was trying to change the system and clearly caused problems. so she can't get a job now but she says she has $100,000 a year pension from the irs.

>> wow. >> what about these lost emails? >> i know. >> people want answers to those questions. >> mike, thank you. >> coming up, forget isis there's another group in syria that has u.s. intelligence even more worried. we'll explain that. plus he was nominated by president obama to represent the u.s. at the u.n. this week, senator ron johnson joins us for the must read opinion pages. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." hi, are we still on for tomorrow? tomorrow. quick look at the weather. nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. driven to preserve the environment, csx moves a ton of freight nearly 450 miles

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♪ all right. joining us now for the must read opinion pages msnbc contributor mike barnacle. republican senator and senator ron johnson. he was nominated by president obama to represent the u.s. at this week's session of the united nations general assembly. >> barack obama appointee. >> there you go. we should put that under your label there. that will help you so much. first let me bring in michael schmidt from the "new york times" back into the conversation. you had a piece in the "sunday times" about the terror groups posing an even greater threat

than isis. tell us about khorasan. >> this is a group that took advantage of ungoverned areas of syria. they are not affiliated with isis but they are sort of sitting in syria and plotting attacks against the united states. what intelligence officials in washington will tell you is that they are far more concerned in the real-time about this group than they are about isis because this group looks like it's solely focused on the west. >> let's get to the grand illusion in syria which is written in the "new york times." it's our failure to build an army capable of stabilizing iraq after our departure looks like a pure tragedy then the arm-the-rebels gambit in syria has more than a whiff of farce. but really it's a studied evasion, a way for this administration to pretend that we don't face a deeply set of

unpleasant options in our quest to contain or crush the caliphate. >> senator, is this the least terrible of alter bill options we have in syria because you supported the president's plan to arm the rebels. >> first of all, you have to realize not whether i want to get involved, we are involved. i realize we're war weary but isis is not. al qaeda is not. islamic terror has been at war with us since 1993 when they tried to taking down the twin towers the first time. i don't know why. i have no idea why these people want to destroy the free world. that's their aim. the horrors, the brutality, the evil -- certainly isis -- >> does it stop it. who are we arming? >> how are we stopping it? what i take a look at and i'm not a military expert. back in 2007 in the surge there were 6,000 to 8,000 members of al qaeda in iraq.

we had employed about 100,000 sunnis that were working with us, 100,000 iraqi security forces, 160,000 troops on the ground. >> is that what we need do? >> that's what it took to defeat 6,000 to 8,000. now there's 31,000. we have to employ all the states in the area, they absolutely have to step up to the plate. not only just lip service coalition members they have to provide military support they have to provide financial support. >> we have boots on the ground now. do we need more? >> if you listen to generals we will. the president has to explain to the american people why isis, why islamic terror represent as threat to america. he has to do that on an ongoing basis. then he's got to lay out truthfully forthright with the american people what it will take. >> i agree with the senator that they have declared war on

western civilization and we're war weary but they are not. but do you not get a sense that a lot of people in washington are just throwing darts up against the wall trying to pick a strategy? >> well, i get a sense from speak being to people in washington that we're not being told the full picture yet. we'll thereabout a long time. perhaps as long as a decade. we have an unreliable ally to the north of sir area turkey. what do you think the prospects are for the turks allowing us to use our vehicles, our planes on the ground and the air force base in turkey for military measures in iraq and perhaps syria? >> well, listen, right now, they are looking good. i was disappointed that they basically took that air base off limits in terms of us using it. president obama is right. this is their war. the arab states are in greater

danger than the united states really is but we're also in danger so we need to recognize that. >> how do we force them to get more involved? >> first of all, we have to be -- here's my problem with the president's speech. he lays out the goal. degrade and ultimately destroy isis. he said our safety our security depends on our willingness to do what it takes to keep this nation safe. now what he meant is do what it takes up to a point. that's not very inspiring because he was taking options off the table. let's say this president's policy actually works, the strategy where we don't have boots on the ground and destroy isis by not putting boots on the ground. what happens in terms of stabilizing the situation afterwards. that's what we're seeing. >> you have these voids. americans aren't occupiers and i think a lot of people are saying -- >> joe, we have been. not occupiers. we certainly left stabilizes forces behind in germany and japan.

>> far different -- they weren't being shot in in 1950 and 1951. >> things were stable in iraq when wing abouted out of there in 2011 and we had to give that coalition a chance. maliki was not the right leader. >> we spent over a trillion dollars, over 4,000 americans died and they evaporated like a snowball in hell the first couple of people fired shots at them. >> joe, we left and maliki replaced all the sunnis in leadership position, replaced the shia they weren't qualified. to miami not a military expert but that strategy didn't work because iraq dissolved. >> my only point and i guess there are a lot of republicans and democrats in wisconsin that feel like doi we shouldn't go all in until they go all in. we shouldn't go all in until egypt goes all in. we shouldn't go all in until saudi arabia goes all in. if turkey doesn't want to step up to the plate i would seriously like to talk about kicking them out of nato.

turkey and qatar. qatar, let's get our military bases out of qatar and declare war on qatar if qatar wants to keep declaring war on us. >> hers my point. when the president establish as goal and takes options off the table does that help build the coalition? >> the only thing i would say, my only criticism of the president's strategy is he shouldn't haven't offered anything until they stepped forward and offered everything. they are the governments facing a crisis. it's a moderate sunni states in this area that are the ones that have to worry about themselves and their wives and their children being dragged out and crucified or hung or shot dead. >> joe, nobody can disagree with that. but the reality of the situation is america has to lead because when america doesn't lead this is what happens. i mean, if we withdraw from the world and that's what president obama's strategy has been peace through withdrawal, you have to

achieve peace through strength. he hasn't been inspiring. we didn't build a coalition. i want to talk over tory representative, every arab state and make the points if they are not fully invested you will not have public opinion support to save your bacon. >> senator ron johnson, obama appointee. >> we disagree. >> i don't think we do disagree. >> i don't think we should be the world's policeman. >> i don't think we disagree. >> senator thank you so much. michael schmidt as well. still ahead -- >> good luck. >> secretary of state john kerry joins us exclusively in our next half our ahead of a critical week for the obama administration. plus david ignatius with his reporting on how covert u.s. ground force are already being used in iraq and syria. all that and much more when "morning joe" returns. you know what my business philosophy is, reynolds?

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planes from european capitals. >> david, why is that? turkey has long been considered very important ally of ours and bridge between europe and the middle east. what has happened? what has devolved so much over the past five years? >> joerks it's a little bit of a mystery but a part of it is then prime minister of turkey, now the president, got in a very personal fight with bashar al assad, the president of syria. they negotiated for a settlement, bashir broke the agreement the turkish president thought he and it's bean very bitter personal fight and so i think that turkey has been willing to use whatever resources it thought might get assad out of there soon and for a long time, for two years those were increasingly extremist muslim fighters who had operating points, base camps on the turkish side of the border.

i'll tell you, you walk across courageousists could walk across the middle of the day anybody can. >> let's move on to qatar. qatar has not only been a disappointment, they've actually seem to encourage isis. at what point does the united states of america stop having a schizophrenic relationship with a country that's clearly not our friend? >> qatar thinks that it can play both sides of the street. qatar has the largest u.s. air base in the region. in the middle of the country is where we launch our biggest planes, direct operations. so qatar thinks it's america's friend. at the same time on its television, in its foreign policy it works actively with people who are going against u.s. interests. >> aren't some of the biggest funders of isis out of qatar? >> qatari individuals -- not

clear the government has directly funded them but the qatari government has given refuge to some of these people in qatar. it has maintained contact with them. i think you're exactly right as was your guest earlier, it's time for the united states to say this is just not tolerable. you cannot play both sides of the street in a deadly fight like this. you have to choose sides. the saudis who are in a perpetual fight with qatar for influence in this part of the world have been saying that for the last several years and the united states is agreeing with them. >> david ignatius thank you. coming up, howard dean and bill krystol joins us. plus, this story is a talker. why dr. emanuel doesn't want to live past teenage of 75.

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let's bring in the editor,

and former governor of vermont, howard dean and actually we have bill kristol hopefully trying to get howard dean to run against hillary clinton. >> we had a good discussion in the green room. howard is thinking through the campaign. he could beat hillary. >> endorse me against mitt romney who will be the nominee of the republican party. >> let's start this to see how close you guys are connected. howard dean said program has some best foreign policy since harry truman. true or false. >> false. this is a quick segment. if we're at this level of fantasy. i don't know if you can beat hillary with that line. that's tough. >> why do you think president obama has the best policy. >> bill clinton began this to a certain extent but obama has actually put in verbiage, the obama doctrine.

since harry truman we had a bipolar world. now we have multipowers, foreign policy is different. >> what has barack obama done to face that challenge? >> first of all, when we went into libya we went in with a group of people -- >> what's his policy? >> we make coalitions with people we don't go in unilaterally. what obama is doing here very important. no boots on the ground. we'll supply air power. if there's not the wilton ground to fight for the people we're fighting for we don't go in. >> bill kristol, he sounds like a 1990 republican. we're not the world's policeman. i'm saying, though, that's what we were saying in the 1990s we shouldn't be the world's policemen. >> howard mentioned libya. i supported the president to go in there. the place is now a terrorist playground. hillary clinton is better than howard on libya. >> so, you would have us have

what 10,000, 20,000 troops stayed in iraq. how many troops do we have to stay in libya. we attack one muslim country after another. >> troops in korea, germany, japan, in the balkans those have been a disaster. >> i've heard that. they haven't been shooting at us. >> they weren't shooting us in iraq at the end of 2008. they wouldn't be shooting us in libya. >> let's be fair about iraq. george bush signed the agreement to get us out of iraq and obama kept it. he did the right thing. maliki who is a stooge of the iran janning would not give american troops immunity over local prosecution. you can't keep troops in a country that wouldn't do that. >> we could have gotten immunity. everybody expected the next president to re-negotiate it. look at iraq now. >> can you make a promise of no boots on the ground without hurting your overall strategy in terms of messaging and how do we

avoid a prolonged engagement. >> yes, can you make a promise of no boots on the ground. we have failed in multiple endeavors starting with vietnam. you can't win under those circumstances. so yes you can make that promise. we can hold isis at bay through air power alone for a long time. what we can't do is push them back. >> what about afghanistan? secretary kerry will be on shortly and he such negotiated a power sharing deal. would you leave 20,000 troops? >> you don't have to be that hateful, bill. i don't know. >> it's not hateful. >> he could be a good vice presidential candidate. >> dean/scarborough. >> we weren't going to do it under karzai.

let's see what the new president of afghanistan does. >> 20,000 is too much. >> we squluft a united states senator ron johnson of wisconsin who said the idea of no ground troops is a fantasy. you get deep enough into the war there will be ground troops in this war. why make that promise if you know it's on the horizon. >> up have to make that promise because it is a promise. our strategy, since vietnam has been a disaster. and we continually prop up regimes that do not have the support of their own people. you can't win under those circumstances. i would respectfully disagree with senator johnson. we're not going to have boots on the ground. >> isn't the biggest problem here when we're talking about foreign policy, whether afghanistan or iraq, bill buckley after supporting the iraq warsaw t, saw the error of way. he talked about the reality. we conservatives have to take the world as it is and can't go

in and build up other regimes hoping they will somehow become jeffersonian in nature. i understand what you're trying to do. what you want to do. we just don't have willing partners. we have karzais and malikis and thugs. we're going into a marriage of convenience with assad. >> taking the world as it is i totally agree with that standard but i would take iraq in 2008 over iraq today. >> bill kristol and howard dean. very well behaved almost joe. joe was goading you both. coming up kansas city john kerry what is his strategy to convince arab nations to join the fight against aisis. how does a man carrying a 3 1/2 inch knife gets to the white house. >> what do you?

>> i'm a shoot first kind of guy. >> howard dean? howard wants to call in a coalition. >> you want a social worker to come in. >> the secret service had some assessment of this guy because if you don't know what he's got -- >> you climb over the fence and running towards the white house, you have a big sign on your head that says shoot me. >> we'll be right back. er ] we love our smartphones. and now telcos using hp big data solutions are feeling the love, too. by offering things like on-the-spot data upgrades -- an idea that reduced overcharge complaints by 98%. no matter how fast your business needs to adapt, if hp big data solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. make it matter.

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she's going to win by six and a half points. >> now you get that extra half point. tailgate before the lsu game. >> yes, do you. >> this picture was tweeted out with students. that's nice. having a good time. >> she loves the kids. >> now here's the next picture, senator landrieu helping an lsu fan doing a keg stand. she's just providing the beer. >> what's a keg stand? >> come on, mika, don't act like you went to williams college. >> that's right you went to williams. >> she did with all due respect. >> keg as far as little -- you stand upside down? >> lsu lost. >> can you believe that? lsu lost. >> harvard crushed holy cross in the game this weekend. >> oh, my god. >> what is this, chess? what were they playing? >> two seconds to talk football.

>> you complained about sec, top 25, eight teams in the sec. these guys in the junior nfl, no kidding. >> they compete with harvard. 41-18 against holy cross. >> how about ole miss, alabama top ten. going to be playing. >> phil griffin doesn't know it but we're going down to oxford. >> we are? >> on that note buy our tickets. we're going. >> will you take to us a harvard game because i don't know they willett me on campus. >> he said no. >> i'll take mika. >> williams college girl. >> the ultimate opposites attract date. will you take me? okay. back by popular demand we have howard dean and billy kristol.

wes moore and david ignay show us and msnbc contributor david axelrod. oh, my goodness, a great panel. >> a lot to talk about. >> you want to start with the white house. >> let's do it. >> the secret service is launching a fuel review of its procedures after a pair of security breaches and we're not talking any breach. the "new york times" report officials were considering checkpoints several blocks away to screen tourists and other visitors to conduct bag checks. the secret service is facing strong criticism after a man jumped a nine-foot high fence. he then ran about 100 yards across the north lawn and then entered an unlocked door to the white house. president obama and his family were not at home. >> how does this happen? i don't understand. david axelrod you worked there. how does this happen? >> it beats the hell out of me. i must say, you know, i've had good experiences with the secret service. i think the people i've dealt with have been very professional

and very good. this is really shocking. you know i speak not only as someone who worked for the president but he's been my friend for a long time. he just left just a few minutes before this guy made a run into his house. his kids were with him. i mean this is unfathomable and they have to sit down and review all of their procedures because in my wildest dreams i never imagined that someone could do what this guy did. >> we were talking about it. it defines -- you come down on the ideological spectrum, i asked howard dean do you shoot somebody as soon as you jump over the fence. he said call in social workers. play peter paul and mary. hug each other. bill kristol said you shoot. >> in florida they shoot anything that moves. >> i don't know why you have to hate an entire state that has electoral votes.

you're not helping kristol's plan. dead seriousness, you can't let a guy get to the white house. don't you at some point have to stop him by any means possible? he could have explosives on there. >> yeah. i think you do. though, i think there are other means that were possible. the idea that a guy could just sprint across the lawn. this place is crawling with security. and how a guy could run across the lawn and into the front door which was supposed to lock automatically, it's really an extraordinary thing. i saw the president said, the secret service has his full support. i'm sure he means it. i think when you think about -- i think of his family as well, this is their home. we're in an extraordinarily difficult time as it is. >> maybe the president is saying that. not the first lady. if i'm the first lady i wouldn't be saying that this morning. >> i'm sure she's on kristol and my side. they get over the fence, start

running at the house where the guy of the free world lives shoot him. >> the other thing i worked well with secret service 20 years ago. this is typical of bureaucratic response. >> by the way, typical bureaucratic response that will inconvenience with everyone and which does not deal with the problem. >> don't inconvenience everybody that visits washington, d.c. just do your job. just do your job. if you have to make the fence higher -- we already shut down pennsylvania avenue. ate good thing. that's what i'm saying. yes, they should figure it out without inconveniencing every tourist because they bungled and didn't do their job. we don't need more checkpoints. we need secret service agents to do their job. >> we have david ignatius and

wes moore standing more. let's go to isis. more daylight between president obama and top u.s. officials who disagreed with his decision not to arm syrian rebels in the fight. here's what bill clinton said about his wife's push to train the opposition and then you'll hear from leon panetta. >> i agree with her and i would have taken the chance. i also agree with her when she said we can't know whether it would have worked or not. since isis has plenty ever money, one of the great bank robbers in human history among other things, they were going to get their weapons one way or the other. i would have risked it. besides when we were talking about doing it there was no isis. >> i think the president's concern and i understand it, was that he had a fear that if we started providing weapons we wouldn't know where those weapons would wind up. my view was you have to begin somewhere. >> in retrospect now was not

arming the rebels at that time a mistake? >> i think that would have helped. and i think in part we paid a price for not doing that in what we see happening with isis. >> david ignatius we were talking about this in the last hour. you saw hillary clinton and now bill clinton basically putting themselves apart from president obama and his foreign policy. what's the difference now between arming the free syrian army which was voted on last week and giving the go ahead and doing it a couple of years ago. what have we lost in those two years? >> in those two years isis grew to be an absolutely toxic force in the middle east. two years ago isis was a remnant of al qaeda in iraq. it was not powerful. the biggest extremist worry was another group. it's really, i think, one of the many tragedies of this story. if the united states with allies had gone in vigorously to train

a moderate opposition at that time assad's forces were on the run and there wasn't a vacuum yet to be filled by these crazy extremists. >> howard dean, you got a former democratic president who is 14 percentage points higher in the approval ratings than a current democratic president going after the current democratic president subtly to help elect the next democratic president. are we going to start seeing this? >> yes. this is all political. look these guys are engaged in something we do and it's not very satisfying. it's called using the retrospect scope which is an instrument with 100% accuracy. easy when you're not in the chair to make calms what you should have done two years ago. >> you're talking like malpractice lawyers. >> it's easier to look back and saying we should have done this. >> hillary is always on the side of arming, always on the side of

shooting, always on the side of fighting. you have barack obama who is a lot closer to the democratic members -- >> democrats and republicans, hillary clinton may be a hawk by democratic standards, she's definitely not one by republican standards. >> i disagree with you. i think hillary is a hawk by my starksd by george will's standard, by rand paul's standard. >> rand paul >> not just by my standard. >> that is. so i want to ask you a question, bill and i'm serious. everybody talks we should have armed the rebels two years ago. we still don't know who we're arming today. we still don't know who that moderate group is. i still say september 22nd, 2014, and play the tape later, that our only choice in syria it's an ugly choice, assad. isis. >> i don't agree with that. president doesn't agree with

that. majority of congress doesn't agree with that. >> that's the truth. you may not know it's the truth. >> it's tough. >> what is the -- >> a lot of them are a mixed bag. in life you said a few minutes ago how far to deal with reality. many people in syria that are indeed horrible sunni terrorists on one hand, assad dictatorial. is it difficult? yes. do we end up with an acceptable outcome there, i think so? we should not kid ourselves for syrian opposition training will not only affect the situation. >> david axelrod you were in the white house while the president of the making this decision. what do you say to bill clinton who says his wife was right and your boss is wrong.

>> i'm not in the white house -- >> how long have you been out of the white house? >> i'm completely blameless for everything. i want to make that clear. >> excellent. >> i love it. >> but i agree with howard that, you know, this is a sport that we play a lot in this business which is to look backwards through the 20/20 lens and say we should have tried that pam back then there was good reason not to try it. we didn't know where these arms would end up. the whole scenario was different than it is today. as for bill clinton what was he going to say honestly as political matter? what was bill clinton going say. if he said anything other than what he said the story would have been that he was disagreeing with his wife and he's not going to do that. i respect president clinton but i think he made the answer that -- he gave the answer he had to give and very much through that lens of gee, now that i see what happened i think i would have made the other

decision. >> bill kristol, in david axelrod's three minutes at the white house there were a lot of people -- >> great minutes. >> they were great minutes. a lot of people were saying himry even then was pushing to arm the syrians. >> we know hillary, david petraeus and leon panetta wanted to arm be the rebels. they made a judgment call at the time that history will say it was correct. the president made a judgment call. >> this is the point. not that they gave bad advice to the president. the president gets to decide. we'll never know whether that was a good idea or not. to blame obama for something that was wide-open we'll never know that. >> it's called holding the president accountable for his decisions. >> it's called using the retroscope. >> like in 2003 when george w. bush had 73% of the public support to go into iraq because saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. that sort of reastroscope.

>> if i may gloat i predicted iraq would be split up. >> at the time. >> the democrats should have nominated howard dean instead of john kerry. it's not too late for howard dean in 2016. >> by the way you dr. brzezinski and three other people get in the room slap yourselves on the back for being right about iraq. most democrats and most republicans were not. >> my father doesn't need to get in a room to do that. all right. such a great panel here. i want to hear your reaction to this story. in his first news conference since the ray rice scandal erupted nfl commissioner roger goodell apologized for his handling of the case. he faced widespread criticism for what he did and did not say. the "new york post" called the appearance uninspiring. a column in the "l.a. times" read this should be the final

straw for roger goodell. "the washington post" said goodell was short on specifics including numerous times he was asked for details about the league's efforts to obtain the ray rice elevator video and what the player told football officials about the incident. >> we asked for it on several occasions. according to our security department we went through it, we asked for it on several occasions over the spring all the way through june from february through june. i'm confident that our people did that. >> what did he say? >> the one issue with this is this is now a matter of appeal. so it's a matter that is going to be taken up in the appeal. >> you talking about transparency why not say what he said. >> i'm telling you right now it's inconsistent with what he told us. i would have loved to have seen that tape. should we do more to get that information in the future?

that's a question -- >> mr. commissioner, we found out by one phone call. you guys have a whole legal department. can you explain that. we found occupant just by one phone call. >> i can't explain how you got the information. only you can do that. >> a lot to wade through that. >> bill kristol said i don't want to talk about this because conservatives may get angry with me. >> he did not. you're causing trouble. i'm sorry, bill. willie geist. >> let's go to wes moore. we were talking in our last hour the other an told this as that press conference was going on there was a report an "outside the lines" report from espn which went into great detail conflicting a lot what the ravens and nfl had talked about including the idea that the head coach in baltimore john harbaugh at the time the news came out wanted to release ray rice and was met with heavy resistance from the top of the ravens organization. >> that report and when you read

the report in its entirety and you listen to the press conference that roger goodell had, there's a lot of inconsistencies. that becomes an important record in all this is inconsistency because that's what roger goodell was saying with the story that he received from ray rice there were inconsistencies. but what this report is basically saying is everything that ray rice said from the beginning of this is true. that ray rice was clear and up front about what happened in that elevator. so, the nfl and/or the baltimore ravens didn't necessarily need see that video to know exactly what happened in there. one thing that's happened with this whole case with every single week as more and information gets released it becomes more and more troubling about who knew what when and then at what point were decisions made about how to exactly address this issue to keep more damaging from having. >> david axelrod giving the benefit of the doubt, giving roger goodell the benefit of the doubt -- >> why would you. >> i'll try to phrase the

question a different way. we keep slamming him. his performance is so uninspiring. if you want to inject heart and transparency and honesty and goodness back into the process of the nfl, what's missing from his performance? >> well, the truth, maybe. i think that, you know, i've been involved in a lot of crisis communications. you could use this last couple of weeks and goodell's appearances as a textbook in how not to deal with the problem. because, you know, the first principle of crisis communications is figure out where the story is going. figure out what the facts are. and get there. don't let it dribble out. don't get caught in inconsistencies. tell the truth. fess up. deal with it. move on. he's done just the opposite. i don't know how you code is appear for a week and appear at a press conference and be as ill equipped to answer questions as he was. >> you've gone through a lot of

crisis management before. when a guy is doing this badly, i'm sorry you and i, we've been following this for most of our adult lifetime. somebody is not telling the truth. somebody is not telling the whole story. it's very obvious he's not telling the entire story. >> if you're not going tell the story then don't go out on cbs and give an interviews don't do a press conference, don't speak until you're ready -- >> would you agree it doesn't look like he's telling truth? >> i totally agree with that. if i accept mika's premise and give him the benefit of the doubt the only other conclusion i can make the nfl security people have infiltrated the secret service and they were responsible for the guy running across the lawn as well. >> now everybody is starting to turn the ray rice jerseys back in. which is a positive thing. let me ask you, mika, only woman on set right now what does ray

rice do where you got to get your reputation back. what does ray rice do? we're a country that likes to forgive. his wife has forgiven him. in fact she's his wife because she father geoff him. what does ray rice need to do in the next year to be in somebody's uniform in the next year and say i've learned from my mistakes. >> i don't know he can be in somebody's uniform. it's the people around him. >> he told the truth, though. he told the truth upfront. >> it appears nfl has been lining. >> the only thing he and his wife can do is embrace this issue and let it all out and help other people and be very open and transparent about the process and talk to other wives who have suffered and become victims of domestic violence. and be champions. >> what do you think, willie? does he play again? >> there's a list of athletes whose crimes at the time although completely different were viewed as irredeemable.

michael vick, ray lewis, colby bryant. we have short memories. if it's true immediately he went to the ravens and said this is what i did i feel terrible, die this. i think he's got a chance. maybe not next year but the year after. >> they are angry at the media his wife is. if that's true that has to be put aside. they've embrace it. >> especially if at the end of the day it comes out he was honest with the nfl, the very next day and nfl that's been lying to cover their ass for the past several weeks you got to say okay the guy knew what a horrible thing he did. >> seems like he did what he shouldn't have done and struck his wife and apologized, his then girlfriend is now his wife. i would let him play a few games. the league is punishing him instead of taking responsibility on itself. >> david axelrod, howard dean,

bill kristol, thank you all >> one more time, dean 16. >> dean/scarborough, 2016. >> how the obama administration plans to convince the arab world to fight isis. our exclusive interview with secretary of state john kerry is just moments away. and then later this hour things didn't get any better for manchester unite this weekend. roger will be here to break down their latest defeat. but first, did bill clinton let slip some big news about chelsea's pregnancy? that's ahead in your morning papers. hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection? sure, we help with fraud protection. if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. you are saying "frog protection"? fraud. fro-g. frau-d. i think we're on the same page. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you.

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today. you're getting each other's goat. >> i didn't take the bait when he said dean/scarborough. do i look like a vice president? >> scarborough/dean. >> not dean. come on. >> are you really that shallow? >> that i can't be number two? yes i'm that shallow. >> let's get to the morning papers. forbes has an article about the troubling rate of suicide in america. 11% spike over recent years. more than 100 people in the u.s. take their own lives every day. that's more than the number killed in car crashes. >> look at those lines in 2006 where they are all together, guys and look how suicide in red has jumped up while car accidents have gone down. >> 22 a day are vets. >> is that unbelievable. >> according to those statistics. >> the baby boomers, they are getting older, rough economy and things aren't turning out the way they wanted it to turn out. it's stunning.

>> amazing. let's move on to other papers. >> telegraph, former president be bill clinton says his family is on watch. he hopes to become a grandfather before the first of october. >> that's exciting. now to a driver lucky to be alive after a hard -- harrowing crash. a drag race between a chevy and camaro. >> like the dukes of hazard. >> oh, my lord. is that him? >> what? how do you walk out of that. >> that was not him. >> wait a minute. >> were those his legs out the windshield? >> no. was it. it looks like it. >> oh, my gosh. >> oh, my lord.

>> then he walks out. >> okay. >> i haven't seen a guy that tough since buford in "walking tall." >> mark loved that show. >> mark loved it. >> that's incredible. >> "new york daily news" a texas preacher caught a package thief in the act holding her at gunpoint. delivers had gone missing from his porch. the pastor placed two phoney packages as he watched by with a gun. hours later when a middle age woman approached made her lion her stomach. the 52-year-old grandmother is ah-ha by the all thief. >> a gown pointed at her head. let's move on. on "morning joe" the realities of growing old, dr. ezekiel

emanuel joins us -- designee says he wants to die at 75. designee says it's over. at 75 it should to be done. that's it. but first, "morning joe" exclusive. >> you think his crazy bother thinks that >> the case for war how the obama administration plans to defeat isis. secretary of state john kerry standing by. we'll be right back.

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>> could the rise of isis been preve prevented? >> they could have been prevented if the international community worked harder together to make sure funding and support the original groups in syria were -- were not allowed to get to the extent they were. >> the international community, the united states intervened too late? >> i think we could have done a better job in making sure earlier on it was identified who the bad people were and action by the international community was taken not to allow that to happen. >> that was king abdullah of jordan how the situation with isis could have been avoided. joining us on set, secretary of state john kerry. great to have you on board, sir.

let's start with the over arching question who is in the coalition in the muslim world standing by with us. >> we have more than 50 countries total now but in the immediate vicinity, in the region i think you saw we had a conference in jetta in which every single gulf nation and the surrounding neighbors joined up one way or the other to be active in the coalition. that includes saudi arabia, qatar, emrates, jordan, bahrain. >> you bring up qatar. they are also helping isis. >> no. there's no evidence at this point right now, joe, that anyone is currently funding isis in any way whatsoever. now in the beginning, individual countries in the region multiple made decisions about who they would support to try to get rid of assad. in theory in many of their minds okay this is the first is get rid of assad, secondly we'll get rid of them.

it was expedient that it didn't work. >> are they being far too passive in trying to track down people in their own country. there are reports this past weekend out of london that some of the biggest funders are coming out of qatar. >> some of the biggest funders individually are coming out of a number of countries in the region still and that is a major focus of our coalition effort. >> your disappointed with qatar's behavior over the past several months. >> you keep coming back to one country. our answer is we're disappointed in any country that allowing foreign fighters to move in, allowing financing coming in. bahrain is stepping up and hosting a conference in a few days which will be very important to help coordinate the activities which we've gotten very good at. treasury department is outstanding at focusing, financing, being able to track people. the sanctions that we've had in the last year that really --

>> has the money flowed slowed down? >> yes. state sponsored support has stopped to our best of our knowledge at this point in time. individuals in countries are still funding. now in case ever isil, isil robbed a bank, a big bank in mosul and isil regrettably has been able to sell some oil and that is a major issue. >> who they sell to it? >> they can smuggle it out. get out in the marketplace. we have to make sure it can't move through turkey or syria or out of lebanon. there are various channels. that's a major tar guest our efforts. >> let me ask you about the overall strategy especially in terms of arming the syrian army. nobody got enough information should we trust them, can we trust them, what credible information do we have this can be effective by arming the free syrian army. >> we've been working with the free syrian army for several

years. you've had an active debate about arming, not arming. the debate is in washington too. the fact is we've gotten very good at knowing who they are, and vetting. we've been doing 20 years of vesting. began in iraq, moved to afghanistan which, by the way, an enormous success yesterday for everybody in the decision of the afghan leaders to come together, form a government. we've been working at that diplomatically for months intensively. and also iraq. iraq is an incredible story of the iraqis coming together themselves to put their government together. to have new people come in, a breath of fresh air to embrace a unity effort to deal with isis. so those are positive signs in an obviously sea of troubles. >> sea of trouble. it's a shame you took over as secretary of state at a time when nothing was happening.

>> exactly. mike? >> we're involved deeply, heavily in the world's most dangerous neighborhood, the two principle points of contention, one syria where they are engaged in a civil war that's taken hundreds of thousands of lives the other iraq where despite the progress that's being made is still a dysfunctional government. you mentioned oil shipments and smuggling across the turkish border. a 500 mile long border. we have an air base in southern turkey that the turks are reluctant to allow us to use for military operations in either iraq or perhaps in syria. is turkey our ally? what is the story with turkey? >> turkey is our ally. turkey is also a member of nato. i was in the capital a couple of days ago. they have absolutely pledged to be effective and to be deeply

involved in helping to deal with this challenge. now the proof will not be in the words, the proof will be in the actions. and we're not going to take anything to the bank on the basis of a verbal interaction but at least we know that they are committed, that's the beginning and now we're beginning to put together the specific tasks that each nation will under take, mike and that was the reason for the discussions in paris the other day. we had 26 countries, four are international organizations, all committed to this effort. and here in new york we'll continue those meetings. we had a major meeting at the u.n. security council on friday. 37 countries spoke out publicly for the first time. for the world to hear them condemn isil and commit to this challenge. to deal with this. so general allen is pulling the pieces together. i have huge confidence in him as does president obama and over the next few days the strategy will unfold, the participants

will unfold and we have to give it a little bit of time. >> one of the most troubling elements in this conversation is whether or not ground troops will be used. president says we can use it without ground troops. a lot of other people including general dempsey said there are scenarios that i could see advising the president to introduce ground troops. can you say this morning american men and women won't be packing up their things at air bases here in the united states and flying there again and fighting in syria and iraq. >> not in combat operations. let me answer your question with a question. in the middle east, given the experience we've had with both iraq and then, of course, south central asia and afghanistan, if ground troops were needed at some point in time and i'm not saying they are but if they were, are we better off with those ground troops being american or should they come from the region? i think the answer to that is

self-evident. the president is correct to say americans are not going to go back in there because we've learned a lot and this is the fight for region. every country in the region is deeply threatened by this and that includes iran, includes lebanon, includes all of the neighborhood and it is absolutely fair and appropriate for the world to expect that that region will fight for itself. >> what countries would introduce their own ground troops? >> mike, i'm not going to get into now who is willing to do what at this point. the judgment of everybody is that a great deal can be accomplished and perhaps even the whole deal with be accomplished by training the free syrian army in the open, saudi arabia has agreed openly to do that training in saudi arabia. that's a remarkable step forward. countries in the region, multiple have made commitments to be part of military action. and i think we have to let the beginning begin and we'll see as we go forward. >> getting back to turkey, which would be a key player, i would think, we had the release of

hostages over the past few days. is that likely to get them to behave more like an ally? what's it going to take to get turkey to act in good faith? >> let me be very clear, mika. turkey had a serious challenge with 49 hostages. and turkey came to the meetings. turkey was in jetta. turkey was in paris. i met with the turkish foreign minister here on friday. i met with the president and he committed that turkey has a deep interest in making certain that isil is taken on. they are threatened. turkey is threatened. their border is threatened. their security is threatened. they are committed to deal with this. first they need to deal with their hostage situation. the proof is in the pudding. >> the go back to the beginning why we're having this conversation, secretary kerry, is the question of isis and how dangerous a threat it really is

to the united states and there's been some question. some said there's no imminent or direct threat to the united states. how dangerous is this group and have you seen direct threats to the united states? >> this is one of the most dangerous groups i've seen in my time in public life. why? because they have a radical extremist philosophy cultish attitude. it's not a religious outlook, it's a self-described cult that is evil. they are avowed genocidists. they have already set out to kill christians, to kill shia. they declared an enemy who doesn't adopt their way of life. unlike al qaeda they conquered major territory. they have access to assets that al qaeda never. they have access to funding that al qaeda never had. they are beginning to set themselves up as an organized entity to rule this swath of territory which is a threat to the region.

you could have lost baghdad. you could have lost erbil. you could have lost those oil fields. could you have had an entire regional, you know, reversal had the united states and others, frankly, in the region not stepped up and helped the iraqis to be able to stem the tide. now, they are plotting externally. in australia they just arrest ad group of people who were alleged to be about to do a spectacular horrendous grotesque atrocity. >> any reason to believe that's coming to america? >> we have over 100 fighters there from america. they have passports. they can come back here. that's why foreign fighters is such a focus and president obama will chair a u.n. security council meeting this week to deal with foreign fighters. but, you know, we learned with al qaeda you cannot leave this extremist cultism ungoverned spaces to plot whatever they want.

they are dangerous to every country in the region and you cannot have a challenge to the norms of international behavior, the rule of law, to states and leave it unchallenged. that's what at stake. >> secretary of state john kerry always great to see you. >> secretary of state great to see you. we saw you in simpler times about a year ago. simpler not just for the united states but the boston red sox. game six. there we are. >> that was one of the great nights. >> it was a wonderful night. >> i'll never forget that. >> except for baltimore. >> are you going up to the last game? >> absolutely. >> jeter game. >> that's worth its weight. >> wonderful night. >> mr. secretary great to see you. thank you very much. still ahead what makes google one of the world's top

companies. the chairman we'll be here. why ezekiel emanuel says 75 is the perfect age to die and he's okay with that. >> i think his crazy brother -- >> no! >> we'll be right back. take and... exhale.in... aflac! and a gentle wavelike motion... aahhh- ahhhhhh. liberate your spine, ahhh-ahhhhhh aflac! and reach, toes blossoming... not that great at yoga. yeah, but when i slipped a disk he paid my claim in just four days. ahh! four days? yep. find out how fast aflac can pay you, at aflac.com. to build something smarter.

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>> anyone on television. >> yes, they will. absolutely. >> you're in. >> we're praying for a first off winner. >> you don't have to pray for that. this weekend, nothing good happened to all of our teams but let's first of all, let's start with man city chelsea. >> a roman shake. a russia sheik going up. that sounds like the council on foreign relations. the game was a sumo wrestling fight. diego costa fouled. look at that. >> great. >> andre, he looks a little bit like the lead guitar player. he picks up the game. man city leads. then for 13 seasons, willie, chelsea legend comes on. scores against his own team.

like derek jeter. >> this guy would not like applaud, wouldn't go crazy at the end of the game. he spent all his time at the chelsea end clapping. >> he was like an old man. >> amazingly emotional game. >> so, listen, every time i start to feel bad about liverpool i look 40, 50 miles east and i see what's happening at man u. that's a nightmare. it got worst yesterday. >> they spent millions on this team and they went 2-0. had a tiny -- that goal was more a product placement. >> but then what happened this team that just came up in the premier league this year.

>> that's brittany spears. the city tying it up. scored four unanswered goals to win 5-3. they realized -- you watched the battle. >> this is like a aa team beating the new york yankees. >> that's the first time in the history of the premier league that a man gave up a two goal lead. let me tell you something. the epl standings bizarre. southampton second. aston villa third. >> okay. "men in blazers" debuts tonight

at 10:00. >> watch it it will change your life. >> mika we'll have you on as a guest before the end of the series. >> she just pretends. >> i know. it's all an act. roger thank you. >> thank you roger. she inspires you. no question about that. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 54 past the hour. officials believe the man accused of shooting two pennsylvania shoot troopers, one fatally, had likely planned for months. over the weekend, police recovered items believed to have been left by the suspect, 31-year-old eric frein. nbc's ron allen is there live in blooming grove as the manhunt enters day ten. how close do officials seem to find being the suspect? >> well, they think they're close, but it's a tough thing to do, because, as you said, he's gotten a head start. they think he planned this ambush and the escape for months and maybe up to a year. they say he lives over there. he fired across the highway here, hitting the two troopers in their barracks during a shift change. they say they're closing in on the man who has caused so much worry. federal agents joining the hunt look ready for war. the massive manhunt, tightening a perimeter, several square miles around the suspect's home.

following a trail left behind, including weapons like this ak-47 and ammunition possibly used in the ambush, commanders say. >> up until now, his advantage has been this is his backyard. we're pushing him hard. he is no longer safe. >> as the dragnet closes in and the two-day emergency lockdown for thousands of residents in immediate danger lifted, many wonder how far away is safe enough. this man is leaving his home for now. do you think he's still around? >> they believe he's in the area, yes. >> that's what they've said? >> that's what they're saying, yes. >> but his neighbor is staying put. >> don't feel he's going to be shooting civilians. he's got something in for law enforcement. >> police believe frein may have been spotted several times while traveling up to 20 miles through rugged terrain on foot as they try to reassure communities where many businesses and schools have been shut for days that the danger soon will pass. >> is it safe enough to reopen schools? >> those are individual decision, the school districts

have to make. we have every reason to believe frein is focused on law enforcement and specifically the state police. >> some of the schools closed for a day or two and furthest away from here are rep opening, with new additional security measures. there are still some 9,500 students in the pocono mountains where officials say it's too dangerous to get on buses and go back to class. it's unclear when this is going to end. up next, as the nfl looks to move beyond the ray rice scandal, we have new details of an alleged massive cover-up by the ravens. you'll want to hear his reaction to the roger goodell news conference. plus, how does a man carrying a 3 1/2 inch knife make it all the way to the doorsteps of the white house? to find the front door unlocked and go in? all that and more when "morning joe" returns.

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i would have loved to have seen that tape. should we do more to get that information in the future. that's the question i want these experts to do. >> we found out by one phone call. you guys have a whole legal department. >> you know, you know the things are not going well when you lose the moral high grounds to a tmz reporter. the single great et reaction to the entire goodell press conference debacle came from wide receiver sydney rice who wrote simply "boo this man." ghost emojy.

i really think that says it all. bravo, sydney, bravo. >> welcome back. thomas roberts with us. also joining the table, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. good to have you all. >> nfl, front page of the paper. >> that was the worst brawl -- i watched it. you could weep. you could weep. they were punching each other. >> bench clearer. >> it was unbelievable. >> boy, what about weeping. if you love the nfl, you have to weep at that press conference on friday. one of the worst you've ever seen? >> one of the worst i've seen, some bad press conferences. >> yeah. >> this is what you do. i mean, $44 million a year. i think i could be a little more empathetic. i think i could apologize and maybe produce some of those four high-powered women you've just hired to do damage control. where were they? >> exactly, where were they, i'd bring them up. i don't know.

we have been pounding away at the story, rightfully so, and at the nfl. and i wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. i wanted to hear something from this news conference. >> well, listen, we know goodell. we like goodell. i was cheering for goodell on friday. something's up. david axelrod -- >> whoa. >> yeah, we're going to -- >> when we ask david axelrod what was up, why they did so badly, well, it would help if they started telling the truth. >> when he was asked, have you considered resigning, he firmly said, i have not, did that describing you as odd? >> what strikes me as odd is he gets paid $44 million a year and i would say very few people would get paid $44 million a year would say i feel like resigning. i can't believe he gets paid that much money running the nfl. mike, i also -- i can't believe the nfl has tax exempt status. the owners need to understand, they're opening up so many cans

of worms here. i hate to say it, but they still have a very big decision to make on whether goodell stays or goes because i think capitol hill needs to start looking at the national football league and asking why is a multibillion dollar outfit get tax exempt status. why do they, first of all, get tax exempt status, mike? >> you're asking the wrong person. major league baseball's the same deal. >> why are americans funding these sports, these games, with their money, whether they go to a baseball game or a football game or whether they get cable so they can watch it? and then have to pay their taxes too? because they're not paying taxes. >> you said it earlier. no matter the horrific story that's out there about ray rice, no matter the horrific headlines, the multiple arrests of the nfl players over the years, they still dominate every sunday. >> by the way, we can talk about saturday for a second? >> all right, we're just going to start there. >> i'm going to hit close to

home. >> florida state, 2 1/2 hours from my home in pensacola, florida. got a lot of friends at florida state. they've got a guy that won the heisman last year accused of rape. and "the new york times" was asking some very tough questions about how that rape investigation went. acused of rape. busted. for actually stealing from a super market. and then this past week, got up on the table and uttered an extraordinarily profane phrase repeatedly at the top of his lungs. and my question, fsu, is this guy really worth it? is a win really worth it? they only put him out for a half -- half a game. and then the pressure was so intense that they extended the entire game. but, listen, one -- listen, the nfl, they're paid gladiators. that's one thing. florida state. a state school. allowing a guy like this accused of rape, busted for robbery, and

now doing this, shouting profane phrases that would get anybody else at florida state university kicked out of school. this is a sickness that goes down into college ranks. and fsu needs to kick that guy off his team. >> but you know -- >> off their team. >> you know why that happens. because jamal winston -- he's not the only one, since the age of 8, 9, 10, he's been told, area unbelievably talented, you're great, i want you. >> the rules that apply to the rest of the world don't apply to you. >> and so here you are, you've got this kid, he's -- and he's not alone. and florida state, like the nfl, they're pretty similar when it comes down to measuring an applicant's talent versus an applicant's character. they always go for talent. >> it's still a school. >> well, let's -- >> we're going to obviously stay with this topic because it's so good. joining us, washington sports editor, host of edge of sports radio on sirius xm.

i want to play for you a piece of the roger goodell press conference. his latest one. take a look. >>. [ inaudible question ] >> we asked for it on several occasions. we asked for it on several occasions over the spring. all the way through june, from february through june. so i'm confident that our people did that. >> what did he say -- >> well, this -- the one issue with this is this is now a matter of appeal. as you know, the nfl pa has appealed this. it's a matter that is going to be taken up in appeal. >> you're talking about transparency -- >> well, i'm telling you right now that it's inconsistent with what he told us. i would have loved to have seen that tape. should we do more to get that information in the future? that's a question i want. >> we found out by one phone call. you guys have a whole legal department. can you explain that?

we found out by just one phone call. >> he's asked three times. the answer is what he and ray rice told him. he wouldn't answer that. was really just a pathetic performance. and then he's asked a pretty good question. hey, we asked for the tape one type, time, we got it. this is so -- it's just not believable on its face. >> i don't understand how this man is still employed. i thought the press conference was a train wreck. it was infamously famous. it was like a case study in corporate deniability. where he stood up and said i have been utterly incompetent in my job and now we go to a better tomorrow. >> you could deliver that. >> hash tag. >> utterly -- >> that's where the bar is. you asked about why the nfl is tax exempt. the fact we're asking these questions is what makes roger goodell vulnerable now.

that's not what owners want us talking about. >> why is the nfl tax exempt? >> a couple of reasons. one, they've spent $1.2 million from their pac in the last two election cycles. they employ 26 full-time lobbyists. it's all to preserve something that goes back to 1942. but was consecrated in the 1960s when piece rossle wanted an antitrust exemption for the afl/nfl merger. two politicians, by the names of longs and bogs, said we will stick your tax exempt status in a foreign aid bill if in return the next expansion team makes its way to new orleans. that's how we have the new orleans saints. >> we finally have an answer. >> so, dave, thank you. how much money is the nfl making a year? why are taxpayers subsidizing this type of behavior but organizations that make billions and billions of dollars?

we're footing their bill by paying their taxes. why? >> exactly. because they have these protections. they make what we know, $10 billion a year, but because -- >> so they make $10 billion a year -- >> in revenue, in revenue. yet each franchise at this point is probably worth $2 billion a year. they have projected revenue going up to $20 billion a year. this is why people call him revenue roger goodell. this is the only thing that's keeping him in his job. that's why nfl owners -- this is gut-check time for them. because it's what do we stand for. are we just about producing revenue or do we actually think we have some responsibility to the communities where we play? >> americans need to rise up and they need to strip the nfl of their tax exempt status. >> oh, lord, here we go. >> no, we do. no reason anybody can give a good justification unless we like the new orleans saints for the nfl to have tax exempt status. and thank you, nfl.

okay, sign on, if you are campaigning this year in your home district, sign on to that bill to strip the nfl of their tax exempt status. and if you don't, you need to be able to tell your constituents why you didn't do it. why you think working class americans should be paying taxes for an organization that made $10 billion last year. it's grotesque. >> okay, that is an incredible point -- >> the former chairman of the senate -- best analysis i've heard. >> you've got the right long. there are several of them from louisiana of course. >> you get tax exempt status if we get the next franchise. you know what, the saints aren't all that. we need to take the tax exempt status away from the nfl. >> you watch leaders of all types take on crises, how they handle them. we asked earlier david axelrod about how roger goodell is handling this. i said please, giving him the

benefit of the doubt, what could he do. here's what he said. >> i think that, you know, i've been involved in a lot of crisis communications. you could use this last couple of weeks and goodell's appearances as a textbook in how not to deal with a problem. because, you know, any -- the first principle of crisis communications is figure out where the story is going, figure out what the facts are, and get there. don't let it dribble out. don't get caught in inconsisten inconsistencies. fess up, deal with it, move on. he has done just the opposite. >> and we asked the question, what's he doing wrong. so at least tell the truth to start with. >> it's so clear that the nfl, with all of its security, with all of the investigators that they have, they investigate their own players all the time, that they did not get that tape and know exactly what was on the tape. you don't even need the tape. let's go back to basics. you need the admission from ray rice from the get go.

>> let's move on. we talked to john kerry, secretary of state, last hour. andrea, there are really two questions. i know he's secretary of state so he can't set off rhetorical bombs. but qatar, this weekend, more reports out of london that qatar has been the top funder for isis. why do we keep calling them our ally? why do we give them a break? why are we giving turkey a break? when turkey is basically allowed, i mean, if you're a terrorist and you want to get in and join isis, you go through turkey. everybody knows that. >> david ignatius told you you walk across the boarder. >> yeah, our you'r you're flyin istanbul. >> qatar is an ally and adversary. they're playing both sides of it. >> why is that? >> they got a base we use and need. we use them to negotiate with the taliban secretly or not so secretly. they were involved in the exchange of prisoners for bo

bergdahl. i mean, they are playing every angle. >> why do they cozy up to terrorists? what's in it for them? >> what was in it for them, these were the guys that were going to knock off assad. >> so turkey and qatar both are playing footsies with terrorists because they hate assad so much? >> these were the guys who were the toughest customers in town. they were the worst players in the field. and that's why al nusra -- it's not just isis or isil and as "the new york times" reported yesterday and you were doing the interview with them, "new york times" reporter, there was another group. >> why is the united states government afraid to stand up to qatar? they don't have george bush, you're either for us or against us. but you can do something fairly close. you can say, listen, you guys better shut down the funding of isis or hell's going to rain down from above and not in terms of nuclear -- i mean, not in terms of military attacks, but

certainly diplomatically, financially, we're going to make your life difficult. >> i think the assumption is, i'm not defending it, i'm just saying that officials would probably say privately, we need them more than they need us. they are richer beyond, you know, belief with their oil money. they've got the terror connections. they've got other connections. they've got intelligence. they can help get our people out if we try to when they get in trouble, although we've seen how well that works. >> right. i think we do need them. we need the turks. we need qatar. we need jordan. turkey is a particularly dangerous element here. 500-mile border, a porous border. isis, isil is now selling oil that they run across the border into turkey -- >> and this is a nato ally. i couldn't agree more. >> we have an air base in southern turkey that would be enormously beneficial in any

fight against isil in either syria or iraq. logistically, it's right there. and they will not allow us to use that air base for any military operations. >> i would argue that we are being way too cautious about confronting our arab allies. our unhelpful arab allies. >> yes. >> all right, dave, thank you very much for being on today. >> thank you, dave. boy, dave really gave us some great insight. basically a 40-year tax holiday. >> dave's the man. >> he's the man. >> coming up on "morning joe," the secrets of google. lessons learned from building one of the biggest companies in the world. executive chairman eric schmidt is our guest. why i hope to die at 75. yes. we'll ask dr. zeke emmanuel why he wrote that article, and what he's going to do with his remaining 18 years on earth. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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i've got a contest for all of our wonderful viewers. you know, right now, do you know this, 48 million people will be watching "morning joe" this morning, armed services radio all across -- >> it was 49 -- >> we've been doing this since 1937. it's amazing, the numbers keep going up. for our 87 million people watching across the globe and in some distant solar systems, this is a contest. we need a hash tag. like to end the nfl tax holiday. >> oh, god.

>> no, i'm serious, end tax except status. this needs to be like trending. they're stealing money from working class americans that already pay through cable, that already pay through buying shirts. this organization that makes -- >> so what's the hash tag? >> i don't know, that's the contest. so e-mail us -- >> hash tag. >> tackle nfl taxes. >> that's good. we're going to be work on this. you guys have your hash tag. nfl. tackle nfl taxes. that's a good start. what are your suggestions? we're going to pick the winner at the end of the show. >> at revenue roger? >> tackle revenue roger. >> did you take roger bennett's tie? i think you did. >> i would not. i will say something in honor of joan's rive rivers, i got dresst so he stole my look.

>> we're going to walk over there after, while mike is getting ready. this story's crazy. he wants to go ka poot at 75. >> his crazy brother though does not. he's taking like 12 aspirin a day to live to 147. >> baby aspirin. >> are you a baby? >> the dallas morning news. the pentagon program that distributes surplus military gear to local law enforcement even if they've been censured for civil rights violations by the justice department. the program is currently under review following the situation in ferg sob, missouri. >> good. >> and the ongoing concerns other the militarization of police. the pentagon says it's now reviewing how to better coordinate with the justice department, thomas. >> all right. so the san francisco chronicle has this story. more than 5,000 firefighters from across the nation. they're trying to maintain that massive king fire in northern california. the fire has grown to more than 82,000 acres in size. now sunday, it was just 10% contained. 3,000 people. they've been evacuated from the surrounding area. as 21,000 structures are currently threatened.

>> let's go to "usa today," an airlift with 100 tons of supplies has been flown to west africa to help the fight against ebola. $6 million worth of gowns, masks, gloves, painkillers, left over the weekend. this morning, the world health organization announced the virus' death toll has risen to 2,793 in those countries. >> and the climate -- >> patrick and i were stuck in our jeep, adding to gas emissions. >> that caused the climate march. >> so expanding your footprint. >> so mad that he got out of the driver's seat and said, you're driving now. i said, i only have my learners. >> i don't want to hear that. >> luckily, anyway -- >> did your car flip over? >> we need to test your driving skills. >> you're saying people marching around manhattan made you expand

your -- >> and the support of action on cli climate change. part of a week-long global effort related to issues for climate change. stars including leonardo dicaprio and mark ruffalo were on hand yesterday to take up the cause and march. this is ahead of the u.n.'s climate summit. >> all right. let's go to mike barnacle now for our next story. >> here with us now, mika, former white house adviser for health policy and vice provost, ezekiel emmanuel. also contributing editor of the atlantic, greg esterburg. they both write about the realities of old age in the latest issue of the atlantic. let's go to you. the slug. the lead in the article is why i want to die at 75. >> but that's not what the article says. >> of course what does the article say? >> i talk about what happens about growing old. the article's a very personal article to think about ways the

meaning and purpose of your life. and i picked 75 when you think about the combination of physical decline. the rise of alzheimer's. the loss of creativity. i really say you need to think about what you're going to leave your children, your community -- >> wasn't churchill still like running great britain when he was older than 75? >> it is true. his famous speech about the iron curtain though was before 5. and after that period, most people think he declined. it's very hard actually. two things about that. first, every time i mentioned this, everyone says, think about this person and that person you know. anecdotes are anecdotes. data are data. anecdotes just show you a few people. >> this is like you telling me, like, i should get rid of my eight track tape player. we're all going to live to be 187. >> right, greg? >> you just had john kerry on talking about the crisis of the day that cannot be predicted. it's something that we know is

going to happen. people are living longer. we live longer steadily for 180 years. we're likely to live longer in this century. the country has to plan for it now. the preparations would be much easier to make -- >> i have a 6-year-old boy. how long is he going to live? what's the life expectancy for a 6-year-old? >> for this year, 79 years. we're on course for life expectancy at birth to be 88 in the middle of the century and 100 at the end of the century. >> what happens to your body when you turn 75? i once had a doctor say to me, you know, really, only supposed to live 45 years. the fact you're hunched over, you know, just be glad you're breathing. >> one of the big american's belief is this compression of morbidity. the reality is, that hasn't been the way it's gone. disabilities increase every time we live longer. then there's alzheimer's.

at 85, between a third and half of the people have alzheimer's. does that sound so desirable to you? >> if technology stayed stag nabt, yes, but i kind of thing we're going to figure out how to cure alalzheimer's. >> so far, every drug we've tried -- >> and it won't work until it does. >> you're a great american. we always believe technology will solve every problem. i don't think about it's technology. i think it's a meaningful life. >> what is your answer? >> full life, 75. >> i don't say that either, mika. what i say is -- i'm against euthanasia. i've been against euthanasia for 25 years. i'm not going to the doctor. i'm going to stop doing the doctor stuff. >> what about your brother, your brother is crazy. he's taking aspirin -- >> every cononcussion, you're right. they do everything do live as long as possible.

i'm related to one of them. >> he's working hard at it. >> right. >> i'm against that. so he and i are on opposite poles of the spectrum. and my birthday, he says how much longer do i have to live with you -- >> fair amount in the atlantic monthly but the research on making people healthier in aging. not much of it is practical yet. you're about to have eric schmidt of google on. google has jumped into the game with its seemingly unlimited money and it's very hush mouth about what it's doing. we have to assume longevity is going to get much higher, even if there is no bio tech breakthrough. if we know people are going to live longer and we know social security's going to fail in the year 2023 which is what the data shows, it's time to act on that now. >> look, the question isn't living longer. the question is high quality life. this is what most people want. that's why i think constantly asking how long are you going to live is the wrong question to

ask. that's what i hope my article focuses. >> it does. it's extremely thought provoking. i have to say. and very serious. but the tease and the way -- the headline, amazing. >> i didn't write the headline. >> 75, you're going to stop everything, huh? okay. here's what's going to happen. he's going to be 76 years old. rush to an emergency room. and the doctor on duty will be an atlantic monthly subscriber. >> yeah, exactly. >> and i'll say fine. >> i'll say fine. >> this sounds vaguely familiar. pete townshend once famously saying i hope i die before i get old. they say, you're old. well, i meant like, in spirit. >> betty davis said getting old is not for sissies. i think that's something we also need to keep in mind. it is very hard. the disabilities are very painful to people. everyone. the family, the person. >> when you heard that quote from jerry weintraub -- >> the new issue of the atlantic is the new science of old age.

dr. zeke emmanuel. greg, thank you so much. absolutely fascinating. up next, why the answer to defeating isis may lie with the kurds but why that could mean the end of a unified iraq. >> the break-up. >> the great war correspondent joins us ahead on "morning joe." >> oh, i love it. when fixed income experts work with equity experts who work with regional experts that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration.

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with us now, our good friend, for the new yorker, dexter filkins. great to see you. let's go to our must read op-eds. he writes this in "the new york times," grand illusion in syria. if our failure to build an army capable of stabilizing iraq after our departure looks like a pure tragedy, then the arm the rebels gambit in syria has more than a whiff of farce. a way for the administration to pretend we don't face a set of deeply unpleasant questions in our quest to contain our crush the caliphate. let's go to our new york times. getting it wrong. this morning, making the

statement in which he said nothing. maybe that is a little unfair and not by much. the truth is the nfl has had a domestic violence problem. the ravens put that tolerance on vivid display. that's a fact goodell can't say out loud and why is he is saying nothing at all. this is what he writes about the upcoming edition of "the new yorker." it is plain the administration wants the kurds to do two incompatible things. the first is to detry isis. the second is to resist the iraqi state. he said, iraq exists only in the minds of people in the white house. we're asking the kurds to do two completely opposite things. >> yeah, they -- they're ready to fight isis. i think it's about a 600-mile front. >> but they're not going to fight isis for the shia in baghdad, right? >> they're not. they're going to defend their

own territory. but it's extraordinary. you can go -- i went to the front lines. you can look across and see the black flags you know right across the way. but the administration wants the kurds to fight isis, but at the same time, the kurds want to -- they don't want to be part iraq. >> how surreal is this for you? you saw the invasion. then you saw everything collapse in 2006. you wrote an extraordinary book about forever war. then you said you went back four years later and you did not recognize iraq, it was so at peace. now you go back another tragic, tragic chapter. >> it is. the one refreshing part is the kurdish region. when you go to erbil. there's a jaguar dealership there. there's sushi restaurants. >> you've got to be kidding. >> there's high-rises being built. so it's a boon town there, you know, and it's very peaceful, it's pro-western, it's democratic, it's kind of all the things we imagine the rest of iraq -- >> andrea, why don't we step in

in a big way for the kurds and say here's one group that's getting it right. i mean, we don't really -- we socket give a damn what turkey thinks anymore. they're not our allies anymore. they're the worst nato allies since due gull in the 1960s. >> the kurds have long wanted their own nation. they've got the oil, they've got the resources. the point the administration would say is we need to keep iraqi united. the kurds are the best fighters. >> why do we have to keep iraq united? >> that's a good question. if you go from baghdad to erbil -- >> he was saying they should split up, right? >> it's already happening is the thing. >> it's de facto happening. >> the one problem for the kurds is they're landlocked. they don't have a port. they need another country to take the oil out for them

because they're sitting on a ton of oil. >> well, turkey's doing it. >> smuggle it across the border. >> they're doing some of that. they're doing some of that. they're ahead of you, mike. they're ahead of you. but it's true, isis is making like $5 million a day smuggling oil through turkey. >> what's up with qatar? can you explain exactly? >> that's a really big question. >> i just got to ask because they're not our allies. this is a country trying desperately to, you know, burst on to the international stage and be more respected. we've got the world cup coming their way. which may not mean a lot to americans but it's the biggest sporting event in the world. and yet here they're playing footsies with terrorists. who are they funding? >> the muslim brotherhood. anywhere they can find them. >> al nusra, isis. >> i'm not -- al news ra, i'm pretty sure. >> you're not sure about isis? >> maybe isis in the beginning. yeah, they were pouring money into turkey, i think it's fair

to say, indiscriminately. a lot of bad people got it. that's the thing. they fund a lot of good things too. they're pouring money into a lot of groups that are at war with us. the plan is to train a free syrian army in saudi arabia. right now, it's untrained and unformed. is that army untrained and unformed better than the iraqi army is today? >> oh, boy. well -- >> it's small, it's weak. you know, it's getting squeezed from both sides. and they've got assad on the other woz a genocidal mae aae a. >> all right, that was another -- >> we'll be reading your piece in the new issue of "the new yorker." dexter, thank you. >> it's always great to see you. >> from delivery drones to

internet access in some of the most remote areas in the world, we'll find out the secrets to google's most ambitious projects. "morning joe" will be right back. knows that. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ know when to run. ♪ you never count your money, ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist, yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. hi, are we still on for tomorrow? tomorrow. quick look at the weather. nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. driven to preserve the environment, csx moves a ton of freight nearly 450 miles

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join the scientists and engineers of exxonmobil in inspiring america's future engineers. energy lives here. welcome back. 43 past. joining us now on set, the director of the new documentary, pump, josh tekel. explaining america's insatiable search for oil and why new fuels aren't making their way into the mainstream. >> in the year 2000, we were drilling about 5,000 wells per year. with higher price of oil and new technology, we're now drilling 25,000 wells per year. the most productive time of an oil field is when it's brand-new.

because it shrinking from then on. it declines. you keep having to find more and more and more. >> in the united states, we represent a very small portion of the global population, something like 4%. but we use 20% of the oil in the world. >> so, josh, your award-winning documentary talks about all the oil we use and how alternatives are elbowed out of the way. ethanol was an alternative fuel source. and suddenly that's disappeared. why? >> it hasn't really disappeared. 10% is actually ethanol fuel. if you think about what would be available if we did what brazil's doing and made 60%, we perhaps wouldn't have this isis conflict because that oil money wouldn't be flowing. >> what's happened with ethanol? why is it lost in the united states but not so in brazil? >> in brazil, they make it from sugar cane. it's been a pro governmental

push for that. in the u.s., we're only allowed to make up 10%. if the farmers were allowed to make more, they could. >> what are the more alternative energy sources that would be economically viable in 2014 or 2018? >> the ones we look at in the movie are electricity, for electronic vehicles. ethanol, as you mentioned, methanol with an "m," and compressed natural gas. >> what's the viability of electricity? to really take off and take over? >> well, what we show in the movie pump, as you'll see in the documentary, is the availability of electricity is going like this, the price of batteries is going like that. as you said, 2018. we're looking at a very viable fuel that's coming online within the next 5 to 10 years. >> thomas. >> thomas expanded the footprint. >> the march we had here in new york and also today the big news about the rockefeller brothers fund and the fact they want to diversify. the rockefeller's synonymous for 140 years, first family of oil.

>> standard oil, ohio. >> they want to get away from fossil fuels and the feud are for saving the planet. what type of impact? >> i think we'll see large energy companies diversifying as well. so bp and shell are becoming more energy companies, whereas exxon mobil, where the rockefellers originally got their start, has been an oil company. we're going to see more comes moving towards energy diversification because that's the future and we all know it. >> it's the younger generation of the rockefellers. >> didn't boone pickens, though, try to stick his foot in in a very big way in alternative energy and lost a lot of money? >> well, i think he went towards wind. what we're seeing in pump is really the demand in the u.s. we're a car driven society. we need something to put in our tanks other than oil. we need something in the cars we have today. that's what documentary "pump" shows us. we need something to put in the

cars we drive right now. >> pump, if you want to know, is playing now in new york and los angeles. for a complete list of when it opens in more select cities, visit pumpthemovie.com. thank you so much. up next, two men with a unique understanding of what makes google work. eric schmidt and former vice president of products joins us next on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we've always been at the forefront of advanced electronics. providing technology to get more detail... ♪ detect hidden threats... ♪ see the whole picture...

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95% of my vision is gone. i'm well past going blind. you lose your timing in life. everything takes you much longer. there's some places that you cannot go. there's some things that you really cannot do. to change my life, give me the independence and the flexibility to go the places i both want to go and need to go. when i need to do those things. >> that was an early user of google's self-driving car. one of the company's revolutionary inventions. joining us now, the executive

chairman of google, eric schmidt, along with senior vice president of products for google jonathan rosenberg. the authors of the new book "how google works." can you really explain how google works in one book? >> we can certainly talk about it. we can talk about how the company is run differently. i knew when i showed up that it was different because a few weeks later somebody just moved into my office because his office was too crowded. i was the ceo. i couldn't think of a way to kick him back out. >> that's hysterical. was it you? >> knew it was different when i started trying to introduce product plans and larry told me my plans were stupid and i shouldn't hem the engineers in, i should just go sit with them and talk about what we should do. >> there's a big question about how -- by the way, everything that thomas and i know about google we learned by watching the internship 47 times on hbo. your strategy's really weird. my dad always said, because he

was a little good little league baseball coach. he's like, stop thinking about the positions. i don't care whether they're good at shortstop or second base. i care if they're good athletes and have a good attitude. i'll find a position for them. that's the google strategy, don't look at the position, look at the person. >> we say hire a generalist. when we hire engineers, we don't tell them the project they're going to work at. >> it's also like a sports team you organize around the people who are the best. in sports, if you've got shaquille o'neal, you pound the ball down into shaquille. we organize around the set of smart creatives that are able to add the most. >> a lot of great business leaders say the biggest challenge to a company is not failure but it's success. google was already successful when you guys came in. but they suddenly realized they had to remake themselves. five years in, it's kind like blow everything up and explain

how you guys wanted to go after finland. finland always seemed like a nice country. why go after finland? they wanted to destroy finland. >> finland was the code name for a code name that was really canada. it was really about microsoft. worried microsoft was the dominant player. >> a long way to get to microsoft. why tonigdon't you just say -- >> we organized the plan because we knew we had had to sort of suspect they would be in our space. we looked at products. we understood the only way to win now is to build better products. because everything else has become common. >> i'm confused about the self-driving car. is that really going to work? >> does that scare you? >> can i just ask, is that really going to work? >> would you rather have your teenager driving your car or the car driving the teenager? >> you just answered it for me, thank you. >> that's the great thing about what google is doing. most of us think of google as being a search engine and an

easiness in our lives trying to figure things out. now a product like this, which is going to be a vehicle that's going to get us around. is that the idea of expanding the footprint of what google means to our lives? you're all about product placement. >> sure. >> is that what it means? it's about expanding the definition of googleliness. >> people who are googlely also want to take on big projects. these are opportunities for the best engineers and the best people in the world to think big and we want as many of these big thinking projects as we can possibly come up with. >> many smart people want to be in the company because they want to be part of things which changed the world. >> you guys have the resources to be able to pull this off. that's the amazing thing. there is really no bad or stupid idea. >> well, failing -- >> but it's much more interesting to set out a great goal and not get there then to set a low goal and say, hey --

>> i want to try the car. >> and the things on the way to that "failure." >> exactly. the book is "how google works." >> guys, this looks like so much fun. >> all right, that does it for us on "morning joe." this is what we learned today. stick around. "the daily rundown" with peter alexander is next right here on "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro.

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exclusive new comments to msnbc just one hour ago by secretary john kerry. as he and president obama get set for this week's u.n. summit. also, security concerns very close to home for the first family. happening today in new york, the clinton global initiative led by the former president and secretary of state. find out what bill had to say about elizabeth warren. who some see as an alternative to hillary. she's headlining an event just blocks away from the clinton compound. plus, the latest on that man hunt in pennsylvania where police signal they are closing in on the killer. and new developments in the search for missing virginia college student. where the top cop there sets his sights on the man he believes