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the baby charlotte. the early word is that the baby will be eligible for the presidency at 2052. the white house is hinting at a time table for naming replacement for attorney general eric holder. we are going to talk about all of this this morning. we want to begin in oklahoma where highway patrol officers say four people have been killed in an overnight bus crash. all four were members of the north central texas college softball team. the bus collided with a semi truck. three of the women died at the scene and the fourth at the hospital. 15 more people on the bus were injured. the bus was returning from gainesville, florida. we will keep you updated. turning to the campaign against isis. the effort received three new helping hands.

belgium and denmark agreed to offer military support. in the uk the house of commons spent hours debating the authorization of force. >> i believe it is our duty to take part. this international operation is about protecting our people, too. and protecting the streets of britain should not be a task that we are prepared to subcontract to other air forces of other countries. it is right for us to act. >> after that the uk parliament did vote to authorize air strikes in iraq, however, the vote did not include syria. so far attacks within syria have been carried out by the united states and five arab states threatened by isis. here in the u.s. congress voted to supplying air and training to moderate rebel groups in syria. the new session in january at

the earliest. house speaker john boehner told the "new york times" doing this with a group of members on their way out the door i don't think is the right way to handle this. the democratic leader in the senator, as we move forward i expect consultations between administration and congress to continue. the big question is will congress feel the pressure? will congress feel any pressure to vote on this? to come back from the campaign trail, debate the military action going on for weeks now. military action being taken in the name of every american. to discuss this i am joined by amy davidson and colonel jack jacobs. so let's start on this question of the vote. and maybe i'm being a little too cynical because i have noticed a pattern. that is when for lack of a better term back bench members of congress are on tv or

confronted about this subject they say i want to vote. i absolutely want to vote. we should vote. it is the right thing to do. it is almost as if they are all being protected by the leadership, by john boehner, harry reid. they say you go out and say you want to vote. it is what the voters want to hear but we make sure you don't have to. >> if they held a vote they would have to be accountable for how they voted which is a problem. it is so funny to hear this clamoring for debate over the authorization for use of force. there is the outcry for the congress to be a part of this decision and no one seems to have that happen. i was looking at the clip of the uk debate and how novel to have a debate over the use of force. almost like a country doing democracy better than us. >> that's what we really need. i'm reminded of the time during the war of vietnam when

everybody was doing exactly the same thing as this on the air all the time talking about how bad the war in vietnam was just assuming that nobody had read the constitution and recognized that article one of the constitution is not the president but the congress. it is the congress that decides whether or not we spend the money on it. you don't want to do it, stop paying the money. >> the war powers act gives them the ability to do this if there is not a regular report on how we are doing. >> asked about pressure. where is the pressure going to come from? this is the president who talked about how this is not the way he wants to go to war but it is easy for him to do it. there is no pressure from congress. where is the pressure? everybody is making it easy for everybody else and sets us up with a bad methodology. >> it would take it seems to me -- every house seat in the country is up for grabs.

it would take the american people in their districts, in their home states demanding to know where they stand and it would take those members i think turning around and telling leadership we have to do this. >> it is a little amazing what john boehner was saying basically saying he didn't think it was appropriate for congress to do anything important for the next three months. >> how is that different? >> you included a word in there, important which is not important for congress to do anything. >> it is funny because to what you said john boehner earlier this week was asked isn't this kind of what you guys are supposed to do with the wars? >> i will say this. in terms of what boehner was saying he is talking about the lame duck session. everybody is campaigning and then the guys who are retiring or lose their seats and they are saying he doesn't think that is the appropriate time to vote.

in that sense i think he has a point. that is the vote to authorize. we can revisit that vote all you want. they did do the vote before the election. that took place in the fall. every candidate running, the bush administration, thought they had analect eelectoral advantage. >> it's not like there are not tools to not do this. >> it's not for nothing that the american public is so cynical about government. neither the president nor the guys at the other end of pennsylvania avenue do anything that the people wants, that is to govern. every poll indicates that the american people hate the government. they are starting to hate the form of government. >> for this to change at all for what boehner laid out this week, if you listen to harry reid who is not sure they need a vote, for that to change there has to

be real noise. >> we are being manipulated by terrorists in this regard. the lawmakers are able to like use emotion to make its appeal without having accountability. and the acts of violence are being spread in the news. lawmakers are having something to react to and american people have something to react to but no one there to take responsibility for accountability moving forward. >> as long as it is not happening to them they are perfectly happy to listen to the president say we are going to blow up these bad guys and it won't cost you a penny. this president is the logical inherter of the same attitude of the last president. >> we have a lot of skin in the game. >> if we get to january and there is a vote then look how fast this is coming in. at that point what is the point of a debate in january?

>> that is a really interesting point. this isn't just sending planes and bombing. it is making deals and arrangements and tradeoffs and promises, all of those things that war involves besides just pulling a trigger. >> we would hear don't pull out now because we have established and made these arab alliances. >> and it's not like a war is something you can put on a shelf and hope it is going to look exactly the same when it is plitcally convenient for you to come back. >> we are making an effort to do that. if possible this is an even more confusing situation than iraq. remember when hardest thing about the middle east was keeping sunni straight. the coalition is a constantly shifting coalition within those countries. the american people are seeing something play out that i don't think the lawmakers understand what the alliances are. i wanted to get to the idea that

the escalation is happening that we won't be able to stop the idea that the american people don't stop what is happening. the american people are now split almost 50/50 as to whether or not we should have pulled out of iraq. that is an amazing number when you think about the numbers when obama was elected. >> that's a bigger subject, too. it is a big talking point about the circumstances of the u.s. drawing down a couple of years ago. that has been heavily discussed. i want to move on. a couple of other topics isis proving to be the big topic of conversation at this weekend's value voters summit in washington. the conservative gathering continues this morning. you will hear from glen beck later today. yesterday some republicans considering presidential bids using the podium to criticize the handling of isis.

>> the vacuum of american leadership. we need a president who will speak out for people of faith. >> leading to a host of unintended consequences. toppling secular dictators in the middle east led time and time again to chaos and enabled and embedded the rise of radical islam. >> ted cruz and rand paul. not invited by organizers to this was jeb bush, chris christie. what you are seeing is the classic divide between the conservative base of the republican party and the establishment. this is about ted cruz, rand paul trying to vide the voice of the base. one thing jumped out at me. you think of these big political speeches they have some upbeat peppy music.

springsteen's "born to run." . rand paul took the stage as a video of a fetal ultrasound played for the crowd. for rand paul who has a lot of skeptics on the christian rite. >> i saw that in the paper and my thought was i love seeing my friends ultrasounds and mine. i actually enjoy watching rand paul speak. somehow the combination of it as intromusic doesn't bode well -- >> i bet it did but the idea of the crowd. >> it is for them and not for you. >> it is invasive in almost a literal way. so you said a little while ago about the syria situation that americans are in and the incompetence and lack of

accountability but americans are s souring on our form of government. it looks a little bit like what they want. they are calling for the explicit input of religion into american politics. tony perkins gave an interview where he said americans wanted to have more religious involvement in our national politics and took this as a sign that we should have churches endorsing candidates and involved in democracy. that is not a bad thing necessarily but what rand is doing and the kind of stuff that ted cruz talked about it's a dangerous move to think that the american people are actually okay with that particular mapping of religious extremism on to politics. >> with a primary like that because primaries attract people six standard deviations away

from the mean you have a hard time winning an election. >> the same meeting last year they took the straw poll and ted cruz ran away with it. you can see that rand paul senses he has ground to make up with ted cruz when it comes to the christian conservative voters. >> and the foreign policy stuff. >> and on israel. the paul strategy is he thinks he can unite in a way ted cruz can't the establishment of the party maybe reluctantly with the base. this is what he thinks it takes to get to the base. forget the general election. the establishment of the party is he doing something here that turns the establishment of the party off to him. >> the establishment of the republican party is not where rand paul is on intervention, on america's role in the world. so it's going to be a really interesting stretch for the republican party. he is appealing to the base on these values but he does have an

appeal to a whole wing of the republican party that is not interested in going places. >> i see ted cruz as somebody even if he ends up being the choice of the base i can't see how he gets the nomination because there is too much resistance. i have seen rand paul make interesting end roads. watching him make the sharp play was striking. i am interested in seeing how it plays out. we will have results later and talk about it tomorrow. we have more to talk about. we have to squeeze a break in. we will be right back. lp you? i'm looking for a phone plan. it has to be a great one, and i don't compromise. ok, how about 10 gigs of data to share, unlimited talk and text, and you can choose from 2 to 10 lines. wow, sounds like a great deal. so i'm getting exactly what i want, then? appears so. now, um, i'm not too sure what to do with my arms right now 'cause this is when i usually start throwing things. oh, that's terrifying at&t's best-ever pricing. 2-10 lines, 10 gigs of truly

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we are back and turning to the domestic front. the white house is hinting at a time table sort of for replacing

attorney general heric holder. josh earnest says the white house should act quickly to confirm once the president names a nominee. officially it can't come until congress is back in session. they are out campaigning right now. white house secretary cited recent precedent. >> in less than a month, december 6, secretary gates was confirmed to his post. there is a precedent for presidents making important cabinet nominations and counting on congress to confirm them promptly even in the context of a lame duck session if necessary. >> yesterday attorney general holder told joy reid his resignation will not effect the agenda. >> people have to understand

something. barack obama is still the president of the united states. he and i share a world view. i did the things that he wanted me to do. we are partners. my departure will not have impact on this administration's commitment to the civil rights issue that has been the life of this president. >> so what do we think will happen when president obama nominates the next attorney general? i thought there was something clever here. there is nobody, almost nobody has been going after it for the last six years than eric holder. what the white house is saying here is not just eric holder is going away but he is going away once somebody new is confirmed. basically republicans you want this guy who you have railed against for six years gone then get somebody new in there. don't get somebody new in there

you are stuck with eric holder. >> i think ted cruz called on his colleagues actually to maybe not leave this choice to the lame duck session and maybe push it and to fight and make sure they had somebody. >> that is a key difference potentially -- >> i don't know who that would be. >> control of the senate is on the line. we already know democrats have the majority in the lame duck session. >> i want to say like i'm not so sad he is leaving either. it would be interesting to see if the republicans can find somebody worse on civil liberties or if we get an improvement. that is some place they have criticized eric holder. he has been terrible, the worst for journalists probably in decades. it is sort of weird to see this happening. i feel like civil libertarians are stuck biting their tongue

because this has been a disaster for us. and that's not getting talked about because he is such a lightning rod. i do have a lot of personal respect for him. those two things are linked. we start silencing journalists and letting corporations do what they want because they are too big to jail, the people who get hurt by that are the minorities, less powerful in society. >> i think holder has been quite a bit to the right of where people think he is on specific issues, absolutely. he is to the left of probably where the majority of middle of the road americans. if you take everything in total he is actually quite a bit to the right of where everybody thinks he it is. >> it is interesting the civil rights aspect of his legacy has been in obama's second term. it is not where he started. he always had the principles but the real push in the areas has

been in the last two years for holder. there is an argument that he shifted what his legacy would have been if he had left at the end of the first term. we talk about civil rights that also includes gay rights, it includes helping bring the administration around a marriage equality but this is the department of justice that could have had a role in nsa spying. >> who would want this job at this point? it will be eight years but no matter what happens the next two years whenever history looks back at the obama administration you think the attorney general is eric holder. that is where the mission was set. i have seen these names float and big names like duval patrick in massachusetts. you have a little less than two years in the job and sort of the worst two years in any administration.

this is a job more for sort of a place holder at this point. >> or somebody making transition. a lot of names mentioned are solicitor general. and also maybe a senator. so maybe the senator won't be so -- >> cumela harris from california. she could be governor of california in a couple of years you are side tracking yourself. >> and governor of who knows what else. >> it has to be somebody inside who knows everybody and doesn't have bugs on them and slide through without too much nonsense. you don't want to wait until the next session. definitely not wait until the next session. you give up too much option if you do it now. >> i don't think it will be a woman. nominate a woman for the lame duck part of the administration i think would look weird. i think they are going to choose

like a place holder type person. >> the big variable is decent chance republicans take that to senate. if that happens you have to do it in the lame duck. >> you don't want to say we are going to bet on holding off to the senate. >> so it means if that is true a name should be coming very soon. point out that reuters is reporting that two british fighter jets were seen leaving a royal air site in cyprus. for now my thanks to military analyst jack jacobs for joining us this morning. next a senate seat republican's thought that can take democrats slipping from their grasp. that's still ahead. i will embrace change

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jay-z, no doubt, sting, alicia keys and many other artists joining together today with the goal of raising awareness about extreme poverty, the goal of maybe ending extreme poverty by the year 2030. >> i never had a chance to get an education but i would be very sad if my children couldn't get an education. i don't wish them to follow in my path. what had initially enabled me to send these children to school is that i started working in the weaving industry. >> because my parents did not get a chance to have an education and their strong will to give us an education i feel the responsibility to my children so that in the future they will have an education and lead a better life. >> that's two women in rowanda speaking to msnbc about opportunities they are trying to provide for their families and themselves. the global citizens festival

airing today on msnbc. you are looking live at preparations underway in central park. jay-z, no doubt, alicia keys performing. all of the action and fun starts at 3:00 p.m. eastern. you will not want to miss it. we will be right back.

everyone who crunches the numbers and analyzes the xs and os ends up using the same two words, it depends as in what will happen on november 4. it depends on any number of variables and factors and quirks and any number of states. one thing is certain, north carolina is going to play a particularly critical role. numbers cruncher nate coal wrote the polling suggests north carolina will be the bulwark.

big turnout year young voters could elect a democratic president. now that the senator kay hagan is up for reelection in a mid term election where turnout will be lower what is her path to victory without barack obama on the ballot and bringing out the voters who don't usually take part in mid terms? right now just over a month before the election this race is shaping up as one of the biggest surprises in the country with hagan leading by nearly four points toorg to the real politics average of all polls taken in the race. she is doing well among older voters, a group trending more and more republican lately. this hagan/till s race is part of a bigger story. after generations of trying won complete control of state government and responded by

pursuing a conservative agenda including tax and education cuts, voting restrictions. tillis is closely associated with the sharp turn to the right since he is the speaker of the north carolina house. north carolina is an intensely divided state right now because of all of this. since last year democrats have been staging demonstrations and sometimes getting arrested outside the state house on mondays. north carolina is a purple state you can probably say but a different kind of purple state. it has very blue parts and very red parts. it is on the line in the senate race besides control of the u.s. senate is where the political center is in north carolina if there is a political center these days. hagan's best bet is that there are just enough voters who aren't happy with how republicans have been running their state and won't vote for tillis because of it. will it still look like that in november? joining me now to discuss the north carolina senate race and

the war in north carolina is dallas woodhouse conservative president of carolina rising and former director of americans for prosperity and joined by a former democratic political consultant. welcome to both of you. i want to start the discussion by putting two poll numbers up here. we showed you the solid average. this week public policy polling put out the favorable and unfavorable ratings. if you look at kay hagan not that good. 43% favorable. 48% not favorable. look at tom tillis 34, 48 unfavorable. dallas, i will start with you. to me that looks like the difference in the race. i see her lead in the polling average that we saw.

i saw everything we described happening in north carolina and i say it looks to me like there were voters in north carolina having a negative reaction to two years of republican rule in raleigh. >> i mean, we certainly had a very substancive debate in north carolina. we are having a good debate in north carolina. at least in north carolina we are not having the ridiculous debate like they are in arkansas of whether the republican candidate is for or against ebola or like in alaska whether the republican attorney general is responsible for the murder and rape of a 5-year-old child. we are having a good debate. a lot of people don't know speaker tom tillis yet. i will tell you most don't know anything about the speaker. tom tillis is in a good position. he was never going to leave the race until the very end. senator hagan can still win this.

we put a new television ad on this week, we put $2 million behind it to talk about his work to pass through the north carolina house a requirement that the insurance companies cover children therapies for children with autism. i think the speaker is in good shape. we are having a big debate about what the legislature as done including passing tax reform. >> let me follow up with you on that. you are saying he hasn't defined himself and introduced himself maybe the way he wants to. it seems the one thing north carolina voters know about him is that he is the top republican in the state legislature. all of these things that have been happening in their state capitol has happened on his watch. >> the latest polls show a lot of people don't know who he is. i would say that senator hagan has done a good job demagoguing

the immigration issue. the one thing people know about her is that she cast the deciding vote to destroy our health care system in america. >> you are saying the affordable care act. >> the unaffordable care act in north carolina. >> let me bring you in on that. dallas is citing things, tax reform. democrats say these are tax cuts that blew a hole in the budget and resulted in education cuts. how do you see what the legislature has done playing into the senate race? >> right now it's the decisive issue and the reason that senator hagan has established her lead. you need to remember that speaker tillis was in the lead earlier in this race so there has been a change. i agree that it is still an open situation and so it all depends. right now the education issue is

dominating. and speaker tillis is really the one who is looking like the bad incumbent. he certainly is not that well etched in people's minds but to the extent they know about him he is associated with what has been going on in the legislature and that is dragging him down. >> if you could talk specifically when you say education what is it that has been done on education? how specifically has that affected education in north carolina. what part of the state are you talking about where this is particularly resonant? >> certainly the hostility towards the legislature is the closer you get to raleigh the more people are aware and more trouble for speaker tillis. it is really across the state the concern about public schools. historically the public schools have been kind of the civic religion of the state, the way we have uplift. there are a number of things the

republicans have done. mainly the choice was when the economy started to recover a little bit and budget started to recover some the republicans made a major choice. they made a major choice to have major tax cuts for the wealthy rather than to help -- >> did the republicans not cut a sales tax? >> dallas, we have to squeeze one break in here. i do want to hear what you have to say about it. >> squeeze a break in and we will hear from you first thing on the other side. ke your time. built-in nav, heated seats for mom, dvd with wireless headphones for the kids! and tons of room for the golf clubs! golf clubs, and strollers. shhh ... i love this part. so what do you think? i think it's everything we wanted. great. discover for yourself why more people find their perfect car at carmax. carmax. start here.

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discussion in north carolina with dallas woodhouse and matt mccorkal talking about the action on the conservative side and the state capitol might be playing into this. >> what i was saying is the republicans did pass substantial tax reform in north carolina, one of the largest rewrites of the tax code in north carolina history. they flattened the tax code and over two years they cut the sales tax and income tax and cut taxes on every person in north carolina that pays taxes. here is the problem with tax reform is that we have seen everywhere all across the country. tax reform is the easiest thing in the world to demagogue and democrats are doing a good job of that. two things that will turn the race back to speaker tillis. blue cross blue shield, largest insurance carrier in north carolina is getting ready to send out hundreds of thousands

of notices of premium increases for health insurance that will bring health care back to the front. lots of people will be very angry and kay hagan will be held to account for that. and then one final thing that speaker tillis will be able to make a closing argument on. senator hagan looked in a camera like i am now and told the voters of north carolina six years ago speaking about elizabeth dole and said nobody should be a senator from north carolina if they voted with a president, any president 92% of the time like elizabeth dole did with george bush. she has voted with barack obama 96% of the time. she has failed the voters of north carolina by a standard she set. that will be tom tillis's closing argument and it will be a powerful one. >> to put in context what you are saying about the power of the message president obama's

approval rating was tested in north carolina. he comes in at 42-53. >> i have seen some of it as low as 38%. republican governor at 41-46. >> dallas is right. speaker tillis needs to change the focus of the debate here. the problem for speaker tillis is whether the attacks on president obama and senator hagan's supposed close relationship to him has been factored in by the voters. the problem for speaker tillis is coming through the first debate and over the last weeks of ads seems to have legitimated the notion that education really is a key differential and tells you a lot about speaker tillis's own personal values. he does need to get himself out of this mire here. there is a chance for a closing

argument. whether it will work i don't know. speaker tillis is in deep trouble on the education issue. >> i think the voters -- >> obviously this is a race to keep a close eye on over the next month or so and on election night. for now i want to thank dallas woodhouse and mack mccorkal from duke university. mitt romney may try something that no republican has done since richard nixon. more on what that is right after this.

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sometimes the photo in the head lines tell you everything you need to know. this photo of jeb bush and mitt romney sitting next to each other was posted to a conservative news site on thursday morning establishment republican smack down, mitt versus jeb .

that came in response to a report from conservative columnist who wrote that all of the talk about another mitt romney for president campaign is actually real but romney is carefully weighing pluses and minuses of another run. no defeated major nominee has gone on to run for president again since richard nixon. polls that look at the field of the state of iowa continue to show romney running far ahead of the rest of his party's perspective candidates. jeb bush telling the "new york times" he hasn't decided if he will run but once he begins the process of making a decision it won't take that long once i start. bush is doing what everyone who wants to run for president does he was campaigning for his president. every presidential election

there seems to be an unofficial candidate of the republican establishment, the role romney and bush would be looking to play if they run. does the establishment want either or both of them to run in 2016? here to discuss what is going on is the washington post national political reporter robert costa. thank you for joining us this morning. let me start with this romney report. i don't have inside information on romney. i thought from afar looking at pole numbers i believe that when you have romney running that far ahead of the rest of the field including somebody with the name like bush we are not just measuring name recognition. this is saying something deeper and significant. what are you hearing? this caught a lot of attention. >> the washingt"washington post been reporting that the romney speculation is real. there are a lot of telling signs you can point to. the biggest one to me is when

you look at romney's financial network and political circle they have not yet signed on to another 2016 contender. that means they are waiting for romney to make a real decision behind the scenes. >> obviously there are all sorts of things to think about. i have to imagine there is an extra bit of agonizing if you are mitt romney and you have run before and lost. the risk of judging you and a perennial loser. i imagine that has to weigh in. any sense of where his deliberations are? >> i think romney realizes that running again is a difficult propositi proposition. when he looks at who is the competition he sees jeb bush. a lot of talk behind the scenes is that bush may not run and may not have the fire in the belly to run. chris christie is seen as a damaged candidate. this romney talk is a commentary on chris christie.

if chris christie had the strength he had last year i think you would see romney clearly making a public statement that he would not run in 2016. the donor class of the party wants romney on the fence and ready. >> i mentioned the polls that shows if romney is included he runs ahead of everybody and that everybody includes jeb bush. hitting the campaign trail in north carolina. when you see jeb bush down there at like 6% against romney at 35%. what does that tell you? do you read that as the republican party saying we don't want to nominate a bush again or something else going on there? >> when i talk to republican activists they remind me that jeb bush has nut been on a ballot since 2002 more than a decade ago. he doesn't have the ties to the party, the way the party has changed since 2010's tea party wave.

what mitt romney is thinking about is if he does run timing is important. it is strategic. when i talked to some who are on t the fence saying he doesn't have to rush like a lot of people will. he may skip iowa. he is ahead in the polls there but go straight to new hampshire and led somebody else battle out iowa. >> quickly we talked about the value voter summit taking place this weekend. the organizer went out of his way to say jeb bush and chris christie were not invited. said we had to be selective. they weren't on the top of the list. we always talk about the establishment and the base. a message here about jeb bush and chris christie standing with the base. >> i sat down with tony perkens in d.c. when you talk a lot of those leaders they see weakness on the

republican establishment side. they think these are old names and conservatives could take the nomination. when you see so many powerful conservative names among activists rising guys like tony perkins are worried it will be a battle roial on the hard right and need to come to a consensus over who their favorite is. appreciate you taking a few minutes this morning. still ahead the crime scene in oklahoma that bore an eerie resemblance to our fight against isis in the middle east. and she gave me advice. she said, "dad, go pro with crest pro-health." [ male announcer ] go pro with crest pro-health. immediately, i felt a difference. it did an extremely good job of cleaning. [ male announcer ] crest pro-health protects all these areas dentists check most. this deep clean was way more than i ever expected. [ male announcer ] 4 out of 5 dentists confirmed these pro-health products helped maintain a professional clean. my daughter inspired me to make a change.

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they took off from a royal air force base in cyprus and the british defense ministry says they are ready to strike once targets are identified. in oklahoma police officials are dealing with the after math of an interstate bus crash overnight. four young women on the north texas college softball team were killed. captain george brown of the oklahoma highway patrol joins us by telephone. i know it was a busy and difficult morning for you. can you tell us what the latest is on the victims? >> this morning we move forward with the investigation. i want to say that our thoughts are with the families of the victims in this terrible tragedy. we are early into the investigation. we have technical investigators from the oklahoma highway patrol who are awaiting investigators from the ntsb. we know we can confirm four students from softball team on the north central texas college

have been killed in a crash involving a semi tractor-trailer on i-35 near the turner falls exit last night sometime around 9:00. there were a total of 16 people on the bus, the coach or the driver plus 15 students. four of those confirmed killed. still early but we know right now that there is strong evidence to support inattention by the semi driver played a role in this crash. we will follow up on that with interviews and certain investigation techniques. we can confirm that we believe inattention played a role. >> is the driver of the semi, is he being detained? >> we are in talks right now. in compliance with oklahoma law

we do blood draw and certain things anytime there is a fatal or serious injury crash. i have not been notified that there have been arrested made at this point. if that does change i'm happy to update. >> and also there is the terrible news of the four fatalities, others on the bus, do you have any sense the seriousness of the other injuries? >> i just spoke with investigators and the scene commander captain hampton notified me that we are expecting at this point other students injured in the crash to be treated and released later this afternoon. we hope for that. again, our thoughts are with their families. >> definitely. thanks for filling us in this morning. we plan to check back throughout the day. good luck out there. turning to international news and the latest on the u.s.-led military operation against isis.

britain, belgium and denmark signed on. they are not supporting air strikes against isis in syria which the u.s. began earlier this week. president obama delivered a strongly worded threat to the terrorist group this week as he tried to rally global support for his air campaign. >> those who have joined isil should leave the battlefield while they can. those who continue to fight for a hateful cause will find they are increasingly alone. for we will not succumb to threats and we will demonstrate that the future belongs to those who build and not those who destroy. >> and it was exactly one year ago that obama stood in the same place and made the case for global action in syria. back then public enemy number one was the assad regime. >> when i stated my willingness

i did not do so lightly. a leader who slaughtered citizens and gassed children to death cannot regain legitimacy to lead a badly fractured company. >> now u.s. allies are bombing syria but missiles are not trained on the assad regime instead we are targeting the isis group. so are we now unintentionally helping assad who is a major security concern a year ago? joining me now. on the question of -- one of the many questions but the idea of we are in syria and trying to promote and support this rebel movement because we want them to be fighting isis but at the same time we ultimately want them to take out assad but others in the

region maybe don't want assad out. can this balancing act work in your mind? >> the short answer to that is this is an extremely complicated situation with loyalties from different parties and countries. sometimes aligning, sometimes completely in opposition to one another. in a situation of isis the united states obviously is now trying to degrade and destroy isis as president obama has stated in the past. it seems that the assad regime does not mind that. keep in mind that obviously isis is a threat to the assad regime. president assad wants to stay in power. if the united states can eliminate one of the threats for the president of syria he is going to welcome it. the question is whether or not the syrian moderate opposition being equipped and trained by the united states gains momentum and can retake the territory that isis gives up or concedes if that does happen and that

turns their weapons on the assad regime. i think it is a complicated situation. there is no clear answer at this point. >> if we skip ahead here and i don't mean to but if we skip ahead to the possibility you are talking about where if the arming and training of the rebels works in terms of isis and you have built up this much stronger organized force and it goes after assad, assad not happy with that, how does the rest of the middle east respond to that? >> what we have seen is when the regime of president assad was threatened and there was momentum on the side of the rebels getting closer to damascus inflicting severe casualties we saw groups like hezbollah and irani regime send in weapons and advisers. we can probably expect that is going to happen again. we don't want to see him removed from power. they have kind of perhaps eased up a little bit because he has gained a bit of an upperhand and

created this neutrality and status quo where neither side is winning or losing. if momentum changes you can bet they will probably rejoin the fight with the same kind of vurosity and ferociousness the first time around. >> thank you for joining us this morning. also this morning in oklahoma the fbi is joined local authorities in investigating a beheading at a food processing plant. police say an employee named alton noland took a ten inch knife and used it to kill one employee and critcally stab another. he had been fired from the company. the chief operating officer stopped the attack by shooting the alleged suspect. officials say the alleged suspect was a converted muslim who had been trying to solicit fellow workers to convert. i want to join marie harp here at the table.

i want to start on the story out of oklahoma. the details are sketchy right now. the basics here of a beheading. beheading has been in the news lately. a beheading to someone who recently converted to and maybe trying to convert others to islam. are you aware of any kind of connection or potential connection between this man and this action and isis or anything going on overseas? >> not that i have heard of. i know our domestic law enforcement officials are looking at this right now. the local law enforcement is, as well. but, in general, obviously we are concerned about people who may look to isil and be drawn to that. that is why a key part of the coalition we are building and a lot of attention on the military side is to delegitimize the brutal ideology. all it takes is one or two people one place to scare people. >> how serious -- we will learn

the details on this. this one suggests something that i think people are worrying about, the possibility if not this guy that you have others who just here in the united states are not officially part of the group, pick something up on the internet and they are doing their own beheadings here. how serious of a threat domestically is that? >> what we think is the most serious threat is americans who may have gone to join the fight or other westerners in syria or iraq. we know there are a small number of them who have pass ports who go there and try to threaten people here. we are not aware of active credible plots from isil inside the united states but we remain vigilant because we know it is a threat. >> we have been reporting this morning on british fighter jets that are supposedly the day after the vote. they are supposedly on their way. can you tell us anything about what is going on there? >> we continue to build the

coalition. on the military side we absolutely believe we have military power to take on the threat. the fact that countries in the arab world and europe are stepping up and signing up to help us fight this threat because they know how serious it is. i think that is a sign of how seriously we take the threat and how it is not just the united states but with our partners really taking direct action, as well. >> when the united states began the campaign of air strikes i want to read to you this was the justification for this at least for the urgency was the group called the khorzhan group. this is director of operations for the joint chiefs said the intelligence reports indicated the khorzhan group was in final stages for attacks against western targets and potentially u.s. homeland. the threat that he is talking about right there, has that

threat been neutralized because of what the united states did this week? >> he is talking about the khorzhan group, not isil. the direct american military action have hurt their capabilities. we know there is an ongoing threat from this group where they continue to plot and plan against the united states. these are remnants of al qaeda. >> this sounds like something very specific in the works required action right now. i am asking is this very specific thing you are talking about, is that something that has the capacity for that to be completely neutralized? >> it is not a binary option. when you look at terrorists we have disrupted their capabilities by taking direct military action against them. that doesn't mean they don't continue to plot and plan. we know they have serious capabilities we are focused on. and that's why we have said this is going to be a long fight here. no one day of air strikes completely takes away a

terrorist group's capabilities or intent. >> we were getting into this before you came on but the issue of exactly what the united states is doing in syria and how it is trying to balance the assad on the one side and isis on the other side. interesting comment made this week, the prime minister of iraq was here and said this week publically that this government delivered a message to assad from the united states that said what we are doing in syria we are not trying to hurt you. this is from abadi. we have had lengthy discussions with our american friends and they emphasized that their aim in syria is not to have a threat against syrian sovereignty but diminish capabilities of the islamic state and other terrorist groups. first of all, is that right? did the united states communicate with assad through iraq? >> we communicated drekly to the

assad regime to let them know of our intentions. all of these things can be true. our position on assad has not changed. he is not the answer for the future of the syrian people. the president said that this week. >> you have the prime minister of iraq saying -- and other statements saying he -- what strikes me as interesting here is part of the strategy involves the roiraqi army. you have him saying he is okay with actions in syria as long as it is not designed to get rid of assad. listening to what you are saying about how you don't think assad should be around longer. >> we have always said there is not a military option to remove assad from power. that is not how this political situation ends in syria. we always said there needs to be a political organization. that in no way has changed. a key part of our strategy in syria to fight isil is arming

and training moderate opposition there. that is a key part of what we are doing. they are the answer to the question in syria here but we know they are fighting on a number of fronts. >> and just the final question. if it gets to the point where the isis component of this is dealt with and if that is dealt with and you have the syrian force trained and ready to go against assad and starts to move against assad i see a problem here because right now assad is giving weapons from iran. iran is getting weapons through iraqi air space. apparently united states government is trying to get iraq to stop allowing this. we have a situation that potentially we created a force capable of going after assad and this is basically a conduit for weapons to fight the movement. >> that was the previous iraqi government. we worked with them to try to shut down ways that iran was getting weapons to the assad regime. we are in conversations with the

new inclusive iraqi government to understand the threats. >> you think that policy will change. >> we hoped it would change for a long time. to be clear the answer is not the assad regime and not isil so we are supporting the moderate opposition. it is a tough and long fight but we are committed to helping them. >> deputy spokesperson for the state department. interesting stuff there. coming up next, why eric holder is leaving right now. mm. feel it. j.j. watt? you know there's a game on tonight right, amy? oh, i know, but it's my turn to chaperone. right, but you could do both. how? nfl mobile is now free with the more everything plan from verizon. i have verizon! download it, you can watch the game right here. come on, let's boogie! oh, helen. for the first time watch live local sunday games on nfl mobile. included with the more everything plan exclusively from verizon.

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eric holder is leaving as soon as a replacement is confirmed. holder has been ground breaking and polarizing. the first african-american attorney general and used his job to promote same-sex marriage. in the wake of teen shooting brown he ordered investigation of the ferguson police department. he is the only cabinet member held in contempt of congress for refusing to hand over documents from the fast and furious atf scandal. a lot has happened under holder's watch. he has been a lightning rod for attacks for the other party. what is his legacy as attorney general going to be? joining me now is glen thrush who wrote a profile of eric

holder. i hope i have enough praise in there. it is my way of thanking for you for getting up at the crack of dawn and coming on our show. a couple of things jumped out at me in reading it. eric holder sort of the politics within the administration, eric holder very close to the president, to his family outside of that, though, from reading your piece it sounds like there was friction in the administration with other people. >> there was a great paradox. eric holder along with arne duncan really the only one in the cabinet who has a personal relationship with the president. it is friday night pizza night at the holder house for michelle obama and the kids. that is how close these guys are. the paradox, of course, is that holder has not until recently been known for political acyuma.

the nation of cowards speech was a political disaster but came in the middle when they were under water with the financial crisis. you have the dynamic of obama's political team viling holder and keeping him off the sunday shows for a number of years. what we have really seen in the past couple of months is the revival and leaving on the highest point in his tenure. >> the criticisms from republicans we talk about the contempt vote but was it nation of cowards, that speech at the very beginning, is that where the republicans sort of outcry comes from? if he doesn't say that then is it maybe a different story? >> i don't think so. i think holder is holder. he is a generation older than barack obama. one of my favorite parts of the reporting was holder grew up in a neighborhood in queens a few

blocks from malcolm x's house and saw mohammed alley visit malcolm x. this is a guy who the harvard professor described as a race man. holder has been point guy on the issue. he has viewed his role as being obama's racial conscience. it seems over time particularly after the re-election campaign obama has been more willing to move towards holder. i think you have seen him becoming much more comfortable as a surrogate for the administration subsequently. >> i am a little sorry we ran long on oklahoma earlier so we have to cut this one short. read the article, great insight into eric holder and the president. the magazine that had scott brown as center fold weighs in on his next campaign. there's new iams naturals,

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scott brown rose to national prominence in 1982 when he was a boston college law student crowned america's sexiest man by the woman's magazine "cosmopolitan." for the first time in the 100 plus time history the magazine is endorsing political candidates and one of them is scott brown's opponent new hampshire candidate shaheen. said of brown while we wish we could support the man who once posed nude in our pages his policy positions are not as solid as his abs were in the

'80s. brown endured criticism for recently moving to the state. new hampshire is the most republican frepdly state in the northeast. can he pull this off and in the process end hopes of holding on to the senate. for the latest on the tight new hampshire senate race that could determine senate control we are joined by john keller from boston's wbz tv. this is the guy to talk to for boston, new england politics. it is a great honor to have you on the show. i'll start with the big news about cosmo this week. i don't know what the circulation is in new hampshire. i did look at the polling in new hampshire. it is a slight lead right now. there does seem to be a gender gap when you dig closer to numbers there. he is doing better among men and she is doing better among women. the idea of women's issues hurting scott brown in ham, is that something you are seeing?

>> i prefer to refer to it as the all cosmo endorsement. women and women's vote and gender issues are important in the race. just look at the way new hampshire likes to elect women. all the federal office holders plus the governor are women. there is about a 12 point gender gap in the latest new england college poll better than the gender gaps you see in northeastern states for republicans. so this race is definitely within striking distance for brown regardless of how the cosmo endorsement plays out. >> how about the issue of carpet bagging? u.s. senator from massachusetts moves to new hampshire and running for u.s. senate there. i know new hampshire is a state with a lot of massachusetts transplants. has that hurt him? >> i think it has been a waste of time for the shaheen campaign

pretty much. close to 60% of the voters in new hampshire move there from somewhere else. about a quarter of the population are refugees from massachusetts. so in a way that line of argument is almost insulting to a lot of those people. the bottom line with brown and one thing you can never forget about him is that he will not be outworked in a political campaign. he has attacked this race as a matter of retail politics. he has worked very hard. i think it is starting to pay off in the polls. >> he got a lot of attention this week because as the president is sort of stepping up his campaign against isis you have the congressional vote on syria. he launched an ad that a lot of people say was reminiscent to leading up to the iraq war. >> this is the -- >> radical islamic terrorists are threatening to cause the collapse of our country. president obama and senator

shaheen seem confused about the nature of the threat, not me. i want to secure the border and restore america's leadership in the world. >> does this work in 2014? >> seems to be right now. we will see how it plays out. i think this is really the key element in the race to this point that brown first of all is not only jumped on an issue that really resonates in new hampshire. contrary to popular perception there is not a 65 foot high wall surrounding the new england states that keeps out ideas and political trends that are affecting the rest of the country. so concern about security we have seen it jump to the top 069 polls and it is happening in new hampshire. james foley and steven sotlof both have close ties to new

hampshire. brown has effectively hopped on that issue and criticized shaheen for her lack of energy surrounding the issue. and he has also successfully linked that with immigration. his campaign was the first senate campaign in the country to jump on the issue of the young refugees flooding the border. he ran a tv ad that appeared to really work for him. so by linking immigration issues with the security issues surrounding isis i think he has really found something he can sink his teeth into. it is reminiscent of the brown cokely race in late 2009, early 2010. remember the idiot, the underwear bomber who tried to blow up domestic airliner flying into detroit. that happened in late 2009. martha cokely wanted to see that guy mirandized and so brown jumped on the issue. >> you can see maybe the roots

of this strategy going back then. thanks for john keller for getting up early and joining us this morning. we want to mention speaking of close races the massachusetts governor's race that is now a dead even race. the political report which monitors moved it up yesterday. on october 7 those candidates will be debating at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. the moderator will be john keller. we will be looking forward to watching that. thank you for joining us this morning. still ahead, jay-z and msnbc. why it is happening, when it is happening. all of the details straight ahead. "hello. you can go ahead and put your bag right here." "have a nice flight." ♪ music plays ♪ music plays

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[ cheers and applause ] live from studio 3 k in rockefeller center it is time for "up against the clock." stay hello to amy davidson. she has done extensive opposition research on her opponents using skills she used working for a private detective. he is not wearing his mclaugh ln group t shirt but is wearing his

socks. the host of "up against the clock" steve kornacki! >> thank you studio audience and contestants and you at home for tuning in. another exciting edition of "up against the clock." three contestants. welcome to all of you. we play for three rounds. each of them 100 seconds long. questions are 100 points in the first round and 200 in the second and 300 in the third. be cautioned you will be penalized if you give the wrong answer. there are two bonus questions scattered throughout here. we will get to those when they come up. of course, contestants you are playing not just for victory today but also a chance to play for our tournament of champions. contestants are you ready to play? >> yes. >> look and sound ready. we put 100 seconds on the clock.

when the clock appears on the screen we will begin as soon as the clock appears on the screen. and we begin the game with this. ending his final at bat of his final home game with a walk off hit thursday. >> derek jeter. >> 100 points. last weekend picture taken of house speaker john boehner with his arm playfully wrapped around this former host of "the view." >> whoopee goldberg? >> incorrect. >> julie bayheart. tonight on nbc this show starts its 40th season. >> "saturday night live." >> exciting news for you. not only did you get 100 points for correctly answering that but that is our celebrity video bonus question. we have a special celebrity

guest who will read a famous quote to you. you have to correctly identify whose words he or she is telling you. this is risk free. you don't lose anything if you are wrong. if you turn your attention to our video monitor. here is mr. allen dursh wits. >> which supreme court justice said the following? we must never forget that the only real source of power that we as judges can tap is the respect of the people. good luck. >> very dramatic reading. >> john roberts. >> thurgood marshall. clock back up on the screen. we are back with 100 point round with this. launching the he or she campaign to promote gender equality -- >> emma watson. 100 points for her.

the cdc warned that by january as many as 1.4. >> ebola. >> 100 points for blake. proposing to join the ranks of fresh direct in pea pod the u.s. postal service planning to deliver what? >> groceries. >> republican congressman kevin brady said he will seek chairmanship of house, weighs and means potentialliy grabbing attention of -- >> paul ryan. >> this past sunday supreme court justice became the second -- >> officiated a gay wedding. >> i will complete the question. became the second active supreme court justice to officiate a

same sex wedding. who was the first? >> ginsberg. >> amy at 0. very much in contention because we move to the 200 point round where the questions get harder and twice as valuable. we put 100 seconds on the clock and we resume the game with this 200 points here according to the "new york times" the former senator who told -- >> danielle -- >> supposedly said inappropriate comments to her. 200 point toss up following on the foot steps of microsoft and google this internet search giant the latest to end financial support of the american legislative exchange council. >> yahoo. >> yahoo is correct. he said it with confidence. 200 point tossup. after he used his podcast -- >> bill simmons. >> bill simmons got in some

trouble this week. reporter from the "new york times" covering this week's clinton global initiative was followed by -- >> a star member to the bathroom. >> 200 points for blake. this defeated 2010 california senate candidate. >> carly fiorina. >> stop the clock. not only did she say she might run for president but that is our use it or lose it bonus question. that means we have here a followup question that is related in some way to the question you just correctly answered. this is not a risk free proposition. 200 additional points if you answer correctly. incorrectly we take the 200 points away. it is your choice. i have the question here. can you use it or lose it? >> i think america is dying to know what that question is. i have to use it. >> for 200 points your bonus question is this, when she ran for senate in 2010 carly fiorina

was defeated by whom? >> boxer. >> boxer is correct. 200 extra points for blake. and we put the clock back on and puts blake back into the lead. the president of ukraine affirmed this week his country's intent to pursue membership in this international organization. >> what is the eu? >> no need to form in the point of a question. as fighting persisted between sunni, military and shiite rebels some were evacuated from the capital city of -- >> baghdad. >> evacuated from capital city. >> the yemen. >> the correct answer was yemen.

>> and end of the round. blake surged into the lead there. anna marie at 400. this is the phd round. the hardest questions, the most valuable questions, crazy things can happen. crazy things have happened. let's put 100 seconds on the clock and crown a champion. we would dim the lights but we are in the wrong studio for that. 300 point question. as he sentenced him for violating federal campaign finance laws this week, a federal judge -- >> shuza. >> 300 points for anna marie. i have never lost and i have always done it with a mustache so i'm going to keep it said this long-time iowa republican governor seeking a sixth term this year.

incorrect. >> answer? brand stad. >> a photograph from an lsu football game went viral as it shows mary landrieu participating in what? >> keg stand. >> keg stand is correct. >> despite his lifetime nra membership and a minus rating by the organization the nra announced it will not endorse this candidate in the alaska senate -- >> beggish. >> 300 point tossup. prospects for climate treaty seemed to dim this week when this country, the third largest carbon polluter in the world said it did not expect emissions to decline for decades. >> china? >> incorrect. >> can i guess again? >> correct answer was india. >> 300 point tossup. david cameron said he will apologize in person.

>> saying the clean -- >> throwing a lot of information. >> i did hear the queen. the end of the game. you do get into positive territory. blake with 1,400 points congratulations you have won today's edition of "up against the clock." now bill wolf will tell you what that means. >> as our champion your name will be engraved using the finest sharpy ink on the gold cup and receive the copy of "the cocoon 2" and get to play in our jackpot round for a $50 gift certificate to the food cart downtown manhattan operated by a former chef of the russian tea room. i had it for lunch today. >> exciting prize packages.

for that quick meat food cart gift certificate here is your jackpot bonus question. with this week's resignation of eric holder only two original members of president obama's cabinet remain. one of them is tom villesack and the other is whom? going to need an answer. >> scal ice. >> arne duncan. education secretary. the street meat gift certificate is safe for another week. you are in strong contention to play in the tournament of champions. you will both receive the home edition, hours of fun for the family and kids of all ages. it was a great game. our answers right after this. you call yourself a suds maker? i need a new recruit. dawn? you won't last. a drop of dawn ultra has active suds

that stay stronger longer, so you can clean 2 times more greasy dishes. dawn does more. so it's not a chore. mm. feel it. j.j. watt? you know there's a game on tonight right, amy? oh, i know, but it's my turn to chaperone. right, but you could do both. how? nfl mobile is now free with the more everything plan from verizon. i have verizon! download it, you can watch the game right here. come on, let's boogie! oh, helen. for the first time watch live local sunday games on nfl mobile. included with the more everything plan exclusively from verizon.

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it's the time of the show we find out what our guests know now that they didn't know when we began. we would start with our champion but he had to run. >> a wonderful story about how the fbi is attempting to figure out who the next school shooters are. it is actually surprisingly i don't want to use the word sympathetic but interesting getting into the mind of those people and the characteristics that they have. getting to the mental health aspect that everyone has talked about. >> valuable information. >> i didn't know what a good sense of humor ruth bader ginsburg had in an interview this week she talked about how taken she was by the moniker that she has gained. i didn't know how bad i am at hitting a buzzer. how hard that is to do.

but and i didn't know how much pressure -- i guess i did know how much pressure there was on her to step aside. i didn't know how against that idea i am. >> that is a story that won't go away. if republicans were to take the senate this fall then the prospects of a nomination for the next years. >> i did know how stubborn she is. >> i love it. >> she reaffirmed that this week. the one thing i know now that i didn't know when the week began because i am bad at remembering birthdays for anybody. i got a text from a family member. it is my uncle joe's birthday. my godfather, confirmation sponsor in high school. i don't know if he is watching but i want to say happy birthday and i want to thank the daily beast and new york's amy davidson for joining us. coming up next is melissa

harris-perry. . at 3:00 p.m. you can watch the global citizen festival. thanks for getting up. (male announcer) it's happening. today, more and more people with type 2 diabetes

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and when the world asked for the future. staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. who will continue the work of eric holder? naming names to get a sense of justice. and muppets in nerdland. will we stop being at war? good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. we are going to get to the u.s. war on isis in a moment. first i want to bring you the latest developments on a tragic story from late last night in oklahoma. four college softball players are dead. at least 12 more students are injured because of the scene you are