tensions between the ferguson, missouri, police and residents may have just risen more. an officer shot last night. right now the suspect is still on the run. another black eye for the secret service. a new report details the night bullets hit the white house. we have all the details. dramatic video of a deadly volcano eruption in japan. hundreds of hikers were climbing the mountain when gas, ash and smoke burst into the air. everything went dark. dozens are trapped. we'll have the latest in the search to find them. a bold step in the fight against ebola.

the national institutes of health will admit an american doctor exposed to the virus as a patient to learn more about it. i'll talk to the head of the nih's infectious disease division. and no photos, please. that's what parents are saying about posting photos of their kids on facebook. a dad is hoping the push for privacy catches on in today's big idea. good afternoon. good to be with you. i'm frances rivera. we begin developing news. ferguson police are looking for two men they say shot a ferguson police officer last night. here's what happened according to police. two men were standing outside a community center last night which was closed. when the officer approached them they ran away. as the officer started to chase them, one of the men turned and shot the officer in the arm. the officer is expected to survive. meanwhile st. louis county police is investigating a separate incident not far from ferguson. an off duty police officer is injured when three people fired shots into the car this morning.

this comes as tensions in ferguson remain high and protests continue after the shooting of michael brown by darren wilson last month. police don't believe the shootings are related to the protest. >> i don't think it is. it didn't happen within the proximity of the protest area. this is an area that's secluded. i wouldn't have any reason to believe that it was linked in any way, shape or form with the protest. it doesn't appear that way. >> joining me now, antonio french who was on the ground and at the protest that followed last night. you have been there since the height of the protest. you were there last night. describe the scene from there last night. >> yeah. first i'm a st. louis city alderman. the mood last night was tense. the crowd was angry. mostly because most rumors spread to the crowd that a young man was killed in response to

the police shooting. any time you have an officer shot, obviously police are at high tension. so we had two police shootings last night. one was shot at. it was tension and anger on both sides. thank goodness it didn't spill over into violence. unfortunately i think we set a mood here where we don't have a lot of trust between the two sides. that's something we have to work on in the short run. also in the long run. >> certainly. that's the theme. that's the point we have been hearing time and again since the protests. we are still seeing protests toward ferguson police. this is what one man said in the protest last night. [ shouting ] >> you see him there passionately there. how will you answer to god?

you can't. what needs to be done to gain the confidence of the police department. almost two months in since the shooting death of michael brown. >> the main reason the protests continue. there is still such high feelings about this. a lot of strong anger and frustration. from the protester point of view nothing happened. they have not seen an arrest. they have not seen an indictment. there has not been anybody disciplined for uh how the police responded to the initial protest following the killing of michael brown. they have not gotten anything on their side. they will continue, they say to protest until they see action. what this highlights though is the danger we are in. we need police and in order for police and the community to work together, there has to be a measure of trust. the events of the last few weeks has broken the trust. we have a lot of work ahead of us. we are not able to get to the hard work.

we continue to still be in the crisis. >> in an interview, brown's parents said he should be fired. you said the chief should step down. will that be enough. in terms of seeing something change. >> i don't think it will be enough. it is the first step that has to happen. chief jackson, i think has just become an obstacle in order to move forward. he's been tone deaf at times. in fact, some of his actions made the situation worse and resulted in violence. we saw it tuesday and saw it a few weeks ago. i think the community is asking for really modest demands. the young man was killed. they want somebody to answer for it. there should be an indictment and trial. not guilt. but there should be a trial.

the police department in ferguson needs a complete overhaul. that starts at the top. >> the congressional black caucus. wish we had time. antonio french, thanks for being with us on msnbc. >> thank you. >> there are disturbing new revelations about alleged secret service this action after shots were fired at the white house in 2011. in an in depth report in the washington post, it documents how the secret service failed to respond appropriately after gunfire struck the first family's residence on the night in 2011. they say it took four days for the agency to realize a gunman fired at least sevenen bullets into the mansion, potentially endangering the obama's daughters. the president and first lady weren't in washington at the time. the youngest daughter sasha and her grandmother were in the residence. the older daughter mali i can't was expected home about the time

of the shooting. the secret service is under scrutiny other an incident when an intruder jumped the white house fence and made it inside before he was arrested. kristen welker is there now at the white house. good afternoon. let's start with this. >> so good afternoon. the post reporting, as you mentioned that back in 2011 a man fired shots into the white house. he was located on constitution avenue about a quarter of a mile away. he was outside of the perimeter. at the time there was a lot of confusion. in fact, one supervisor advised the officers here to stand down saying the noise was simply a backfire from a nearby construction site. once they launched the investigation they determined that shots were fired. by the way, it was a house keeper who found shards of glass on the truman balcony that led them to make the revelation that

shots were, in fact, fired. five days later the suspect in the case, a man identified as oscar hernandez was arrested. he was charged, by the way, and is currently serving up to 25 years in jail for the incident. apparently mentally ill. did have intentions to threaten and harm the president. i have reached out to the secret service. they are not commenting with the exception of this. they say rearen't commenting based on this incident three years ago. now in my discussion with officials with the secret service they say there was initial confusion that they were open about at the time. they did launch a swift investigation. they were able to take the suspect into custody. the other point the washington post makes is that the president and first lady were infuriated. look at this portion of the washington post report which describes just how upset the first family was. they say the first lady was still upset when her husband

arrived home five days later from australia. the president was fuming, too, former aids said. not only had the aids failed to alert the first lady, but the secret service stumbled in its response. the president and first lady concerned about the security of their daughters, as you mentioned, so shah was home at the time. mali i can't was headed back to the white house. this adds to the scrutiny and n the wake of the fence jumping incident. the fence jumper was able to get over the fence and make it all the way into the white house this coming week on tuesday. there will be a hearing on capitol hill. the the director of the secret service is set to testify. the white house not commenting on the latest report. >> interesting to see. we heard from the president after the fence jumping incident where the president said he was confident in the secret service. kristen, nice to see you. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> we'll talk to the reporter who wrote the story for the post at the top of the 3:00 hour.

to another developing story we are following this afternoon. at least 31 people are presumed dead in japan. hundreds of people were there. this is video from startled hikers that shows the moment when the volcano erupted sending hikers fleeing for their lives. kelly kobiya is in london. the size and scale of the rescue operation over the past 24 hours. >> it's huge. we were talking about 500 firefighters. members of the japanese force. military helicopters, police officers, all going up the mountain. we are talking about him just to get up to the peak to find any possible survivors to rescue people stranded up there and to

bring them down. the helicopters weren't able to fly yesterday. 40 people injured were stuck on the mountain overnight. tales of just terrifying tales of being stuck in mountain lodges with no warmth. helicopters were able to get up today. the ash cleared somewhat. the volcano was active. helicopters were able to fly. they weren't able to land. they did remove 19 survivors from the mountain. even more were brought down by foot. we are talking about more than 40 now. off the mountain, frances and being treated. >> what are you hearing as far as the grim discovery of once they go through the task of taking it to the top. 30 people were buried. how about the number of people they are fearing dead. >> the numbers are confusing. here's why. four people have been confirmed dead. 31 people are presumed dead.

the difference here is a matter of semantics basically. searchers found 31 people at the peak of the mountain with no pulse. they are not breathing. they are presumed dead. they can't be confirmed. to have been deceased until they are brought down off the mountain and examined by a medical officer. we believe the number will be 31 once the bodies are brought down. >> many are waiting to find out. thank you very much. >> the national institutes of health are taking an unprecedented step in the battle against ebola. an american doctor exposed to the virus will be admitted as a patient to help the medical community plan next steps. coming up, we talk to the director of the nih's infectious disease division about how it will work. a battle on a different front. u.s. and coalition forces are launching air strikes to take down isis. are they doing real damage to

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u.s. and coalition partners today struck isis partners in syria and iraq. targets included a command post and control center in isis held refineries. checkpoints in iraq were targeted. u.s. carrier based aircraft and land based jets and drones took part in raids today and yesterday. aircraft from saudi arabia and the united arab emirates also participated. is an air strategy enough? let's bring in barry mccaffery who serveded as a division commander in the first iraq war and is an msnbc military analyst. robert caruso is a former defense official. now a contributor to the daily

beast. we appreciate you being with us from paris. we have a little bit of a delay. let's start with you, general. are these raids doing damage to isis given we are almost seven days in to the strikes over syria? >> i have no doubt over 250 strikes come up. u.s. naval air force, f-16s. this will clearly have an impact. the question is can you regain control of iraq. can you destroy isis with air power. of course the answer is no. however, there are over a million members of the armed forces of our allies. turkey, saudi arabia, iraq in the region. there are boots on the ground already. >> we'll get into that later as far as the argument of having combat boots. and whose boots on the ground. to you now. the u.s. is not only using carrier and land-based aircraft but drones in the fight against

isis. you wrote in the daily beast this week that the drone centric strategy used in yemen and pakistan doesn't work in syria or future hot spots. the u.s. has the most powerful air force in the world. it's time to let the pilots do what they do best and stop worrying about and worshiping robots. why do you think the u.s. is placing faith in the use of drones over iraq and syria. not going right to it and using planes in the air? >> sure. thanks for having me. the united states armed forces is the best in the world at what it does. i served in it. i will tell you that while drones are extraordinarily capable at providing what's called an air canape in terms of reconnaissance and intelligence needed to maintain the unblinking eye over the ground in the battle space, drones aren't necessarily equipped to go into contested places like

syria. while media reports put bashar assad's air defenses in a passive mode during the latest round of air strikes that will not always be the case. that would not be the case in a future air strike to deter or destroy iran's nuclear capability nor will it be the case if we continue coalition air strikes within syria. it's critical to think about it going forward. >> let's talk again about combat troops on the ground. the president said no u.s. combat ground troops will fight in iraq or syria. house speaker john boehner told abc's this week the strategy is flawed. take a listen to that. >> it will take more than air strikes to drive them out. somebody's boots have to be on the ground. >> you will argue there are already boots on the ground. in some cases in essence, but whose boots will they be as far as other thagss? other people in the coalition who may be stepping up?

>> it's hard for me to imagine the president would recommit any substantial number of u.s. combat forces into iraq or syria. we are undoubtedly going to see an aggressive cia and u.s. special forces operations. we have more than 1500. there's 15,000 isis fighters, maybe another several thousand foreign fighters. a million friendly arab troops around the region. and a dozen americans.

the threat of our time. it's not. north korea, iran's nukes, russian expansionism. these are the major threats to america, not isis. >> let's consider here the american public. a new nbc news wall street journal poll out this morning shows 72% of americans think the united states will end up using its own combat troops against isis militants the in iraq and syria despite president obama saying u.s. combat troops won't be used. what do you make of that? >> i just don't think it will happen. what the american people believe is probably conditioned by 12 years of warfare. 60,000 u.s. killed and wounded in iraq and afghanistan. magnificent effort

isis is a criminal organization masquerading as terrorists. the united states will find and kill youment you can run and die tired. we have air cover and a capable intelligence agency that's, if anything, restrained.

we have willing partners on the ground in the kurds and moderate sunni groups. we can take them off the battlefield no problem. isis isn't a threat or a challenge to the united states armed forces. these guys are nothing. >> barry mccaffery and robert caruso. thank you. ronler goodell visited the headquarters in austin texas last night. this as the league faces heavy criticism for his handling of accusations of domestic violence

against the players. he spent three hours saturday meeting with hotline staff and listening to stories from victim advocates. the hotline ceo described the talks as emotional for goodell. this is msnbc. ♪ ♪ fill their bowl with the meaty tastes they're looking for, with friskies grillers. tender meaty pieces and crunchy bites. in delicious chicken, beef, turkey,

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energy lives here. developing now, police in ferguson, missouri, are looking for two men suspected of shooting and wounding a police officer. it happened when he approached the two men outside a closed community center. a chase began when the suspects ran. then one of the men turned around and shot the officer in the arm. st. louis county police chief says he doesn't think the shooting is related to protests going on since the shooting of 18-year-old michael brown by darren wilson. i would like to bring in clint van vant jozandt. thanks for joining us. >> thanks. >> can you get us up to date on what the police are doing now to find the suspects? >> well, they have their work

cut out for them now. they will be looking at surveillance cameras, video, anything they can pick up. they will be looking for any type of physical evidence that would be at the crime scene including ballistics. if the weapon was used in if any type of previous crime or anything like that there would be a ballistics signature. they will have atf, tobacco, firearms as well as state and low authorities trying to put it together. this is just one more can of gas poured on the fire that continues to simmer. it's got to be dealt with. >> absolutely. they have been under the scrutiny. how will the shooting affect the ongoing debate and protest against the department? they are already walking cautiously. i would imagine they have to do more so.

>> absolutely. this is an alienated community. both with law enforcement perhaps and the community feeling alienated from each other. it's a scary time when police go on the street. now they think they are subject to some type of gun fire up there in the community. so this is going to impact on how the community and law enforcement relate to each other. this has to be healed. part of the process deals with a resolution on the shooting of the unarmed teenager. now we have the shooting of the police officer. two different matters, both obviously involve guns. both now involve two different sections of the community that feel they are under attack. >> i know you are closely watching another man hunt. this one in pennsylvania. law enforcement agencies have been searching the state, particularly the woods or the poconos mountains for two weeks now.

you are an expert when it comes to reading the mind of a suspected killer. now we learn he was doing online searches and how to elude policeman hunts. he planned it for years. how has he been able to evade police? he's dropping clues like dirty diapers, a cigarette pack along the way. how can he do it? >> this is someone who spent three years studying this. he hasn't studied it online. he hasn't just practiced his marksmanship skills. he's been out of the woods day after week for the last three years. developing different places to hide. camouflaged locations. perhaps food, water, ammunition supplies. to the military reenactor, i think this is the ultimate game for him. this is him against a thousand police officers. he's playing on a role he could

have only imagined in his mind. thank you so much. >> an update on the terrible bus crash friday night. a semi hit a bus carrying a softball team from north central texas college. four young women between 18 and 20 were killed in the crash. two vigils are planned for tonight. the ntsb is on the ground and will have an update later. a bold step in the fight against ebola. this one on american soil. the national institutes of health will admit an american doctor exposed as a patient to learn more about it. we'll learn more after the break. sometimes healthy is not on the menu. luckily, i always keep my meta health bars handy. it's my favorite bar hands down.

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health is taking a step against ebola in the united states. they are i e mitting a doctor exposed to ebola for observation and study in the coming days. the nih is stressing this situation is of minimal risk to the nih staff and the public. earlier this week the cdc estimated the ebola virus could explode to 1.4 million people infected in west africa by january if the outbreak isn't effectively contained. u.s. ambassador to the united nations samantha power discussed part of the united states response but pointed out other nations need to get involved. >> we cannot do it alone. other countries have to step up more at this point. >> joining me is the top man on the case.

the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases at the nih. thanks for being with us. just to clarify the patient admitted has been exposed to the virus but has not necessarily contracted ebola. >> that's correct. there was exposure. the patient is being admitted under observational protocol to watch the patient over a period of time p. if necessary make the appropriate interventions if necessary. >> tell us, is there anything significant other than vitals? how will you know when something may be different outside his general health that may be linked to ebola. >> there are several ways you can determine a test of isolating or detecting the virus by molecular means is the fool-proof way of determining if a person is infected with ebola. the symptoms we have now are

considerable experience unfortunately because of what's going on in west africa. people develop fever, a -like syndrome and diarrhea and vomiting and occasionally bleeding which leads, if you don't keep up with replacing the fluid, they develop what we call shock syndrome in which multiple organ systems fail. that's the course of ebola we are seeing in large numbers in west africa. >> i'm curious. the patient has not been identified. will we know more about who the patient is, when he or she will arrive or if it will be done in private or without the attention of the media? >> there are two pluses to the question. first of all, because of patient confidentiality we can't tell you anything specific unless the patient gives specific permission that either we or the patient, his or herself can -- >> are they saying they don't want the information out?

>> not at you will all. sp patient is on the way here to the nih. we have not been in direct communication yet with the patient. whether or not the confidentiality of details will have to be determined after the patient arrives. the patient is scheduled to arrive today in the afternoon when the patient does arrive. the patient will be admitted to the clinical center and we'll take it from there. >> interesting thuf. i'm curious to see if the media, if cameras will follow it as we have seen other patients when they came back as well. let's talk about what you are hoping to learn and how and if it can translate into a vaccine or a treatment here in the united states that goes further than what's being done when patients and doctors return back as well. >> it is a single patient. there isn't a broad amount you could learn. the major rational for bringing the patient is to observe the patient and if necessary to take care of the patient if, in fact,

that's required. with regard to a vaccine, we have a vaccine trial going on at the nih, actually in the same building. a vaccine trial is already under way. >> i want to hear your take on what the cdc estimates. 1.4 million people could be infect bid january. how realistic is the number? >> first of all, that nib was determined in august before there was even a lot of the up scaling which we see now. putting that aside, really what the bottom line is that unless we greatly accelerate and when i say we, i mean the community of nations throughout the world. as the president has said and as others have said, we cannot do this alone.

we need multiple nations, organizations. if that's accelerated. we certainly can avoid that if we respond appropriately. >> hopefully we'll see progress being made out of the facility there. we appreciate the information you have provided this afternoon. thank. >> you're welcome. >> coming up, in a week where the air travel chief warned of a clear and present danger. while the u.s. focuses on isis abroad. that's next. a body at rest tends to stay at rest. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with

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smk there are security concerns in the u.s. now as operations against isis intensify.

administration officials said there is no evidence of any terror plot against new york. let's bring in north carolina democrat congressman david price. he's the ranking member on the homeland security appropriations subcommittee. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> let's get started here. what you make of the comments by the iraqi prime minister. >> i'm baffled by the comments. but we have exercised our due diligence in this case. we have done a couple of things. first of all, the major u.s. agencies, the national security administration, the homeland security department and the metropolitan airport authorities have all made definitive statements. at the same time the conflict in syria and iraq does pose some new threats. one is that the fighters are

coming from the west, from the u.s. they may have passports from our countries. they speak the language. so the idea that they may infiltrate in and do damage is something we are taking seriously. this announcement by the prime minister has been followed up with diligently. no evidence that there is a problem there. that doesn't mean we don't have a longer term problem to be concerned about, to be vigilant about and adopt new ways, find new ways of ensuring the safety and security when people come to our country. >> the threat from isis has been clear. we are hearing about this other offshoot group. we hadn't heard it before as far as the american public. then you have the tsa administrator talking about corezon targeting air strikes now. it poses a clear and present danger domestically.

does the might against isis and khorasan make the u.s. more vulnerable? we heard the threat is a reason why we went ahead into syria as well. >> certainly has a lot to do with us going into syria and going ahead and going after these assets of isis. yes, it's a major threat. i don't think there is a question about that. particularly the fact that the foreign fighters who are u.s. and european fighters coming into this situation and may come back really is a serious matter. it has to be taken seriously. we are talking here about an array of groups. you know, unfortunately they may try to outdo each other. >> sure. it was alarming to me to hear this is a smaller group of about 50. in terms of the execution phase

of an attack targeting commercial airliners as well. u.s. forces attack the group this past week. what else are you hearing? what do we know about them and the threat they pose? >> i think many people had not heard a great deal or anything about khorasan before the last week. these groups are a moving target. there may be individual actors. individual actors. they may take matters into their own hands. it's a fro proliferating threat. we have taken measures to contain the threat. we are continuing to work on that. they have been working closely to track suspicious individuals. we have the customs and border protection there. these things have been beefd up and are being strengthened. >> i have to ask you about the

report in the post about how they failed to react appropriately in 2011. it comes as we have heard the fence jumper and other breaches of security. we should mention the this afternoon the secret service is pushing back against the allegations. is it time to reform the secret service after this latest one and the report? >> there has to be a top to bottom investigation of the incidents. i talked about the fellow who jumped the fence and made it to the front door with a knife. that's not acceptable. she's undertaking an inquiry to see how it can be prevented. we have a story in the front page of the post about a 2011 incident. we knew about it. we knew shots were fired at the white house. it was confused to the

situation. >> what's so alarming to us. >> absolutely. >> the director has a full plate. this needs to be fully investigated. corrective action taken. >> congressman david price, thank you. >> thank you. >> a lot of people live out loud on social media. parents are saying no to photos of their kids online. we'll meet a dad doing that in today's big idea next. you know what my business philosophy is, reynolds? no. not exactly. to attain success, one must project success. that's why we use fedex one rate. their flat rate shipping. exactly. it makes us look top-notch but we know it's affordable. [ garage door opening ] [ sighs ] honey, haven't i asked you to please use the -- we don't have a reception entrance. [ male announcer ] ship a pak via fedex express saver® for as low as $7.50.

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sometimes better to be safe or sorry. you never know how long it will last. at the end of the day you know uh how to appreciate the sense of humor. >> facebook had over 1 billion users. twitter has 271 million monthly active users. what do you say to people who post pictures on social media? instagram the blowing up and it's all about pictures. they're like, this is how grandma sees them. i'm not texting every picture. my friends and relatives can see it and it's easy for everybody. >> i don't think it's a zero

tolerance or either/or. think about who will see the information. whether or not when you think twice or go back. whether or not you would be happy you shared that information. it's okay. you have to really ask yourself having done it in retrospect. maybe better to stop and consider for a moment and think about it. >> i want to ask what you think as far as my tactic here. >> i love it, hate it. when it comes to social media it's a love/hate. i only show pictures of the kids that show their profile, doesn't show their faces or i will post a picture of my kid as an infant and she's three now. she doesn't look like that anymore. what do you think of that? >> misdirection. not a bad strategy. >> i'm not lying. they're really my kids. >> you can post them doing

activities and let people get a sense of context but not necessarily give away your kids' faces, show the location. not give people a sense of where they are or what they are up to at any moment. pretty sneaky. i like that one. >> it's dangerous. you can find out from the iphone, different world we live in. >> that's for sure. >> thank you for the perspective. we appreciate it. >> do you have a big idea? let us know about a it on twitter or e-mail us. we have a busy hour ahead including the latest out of ferguson, missouri, where a police officer was shot and wounded by gun fire. we'll have the latest. also deep in the woods. new video takes us inside a man hunt in rural pennsylvania for a suspected cop killer. we are learning more about an incident in the white house involving secret service that apparently left the president and first lady infuriated. we'll talk to the reporter who broke the story next. keep it right here. est targets in the world,

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tensions are rising again between a ferguson, missouri, police department and residents there. an officer shot last night and the search is on for the susp t suspects. secret service is accuse of failing on the job again. there are details about the night bullets hit the first residence while the obama's daughter was at home. i will talk to the washington post reporter who uncovered the story. video of a deadly volcano eruption in japan. hundreds of hikers were climbing the mountain when plumes of gas, ash and smoke shot into the air. dozens are trapped. we'll are have the latest in the efforts to find them. a new fbi report says mass shootings jumped significantly in the last few years. three moms have been protesting at the white house every week for over two years in hopes of making the streets safer. thank you for being with us. first we are continuing to follow that developing news out

of ferguson, missouri. police are on the lookout for two suspects who they say shot and wounded a ferguson police officer last night. according to police two men were outside of a closed community center. when the officer approached them they ran away. one of the men turned around and shot the officer, hitting him in the arm. st. louis county police chief john belmer described what happened. >> the sauf is in the hospital, expected to arrive. in talking with the officer at the scene the officer was able to get shots off. i don't know what it mean beyond a couple shots. >> they are also investigating an incident where an off duty police officer was injured. this comes as the city remains on edge and protests continue regarding the shooting of michael brown by darryl wilson

last month. police don't believe the shootings are related. joining me now is courtney curtis who represents ferguson and has a ferguson native. thanks for being with us. >> what do we know about the man hunt on the ground now smm the police are still searching for the suspects. they were unable to catch or apprehend them last night. because of the protesters that showed up on the scene. they are still at large. >> i understand you have been in touch with the mayor. what's he saying at this point? >> i won't speak for him specifically. they are preparing for tonight in an effort to keep a peaceful environment and ensure that no other law enforcement are injured or be the protesters as well. it's a tense situation because of the tension in the air. >> certainly tension in the air.

a big amount of distrust between police and the community. here's what a man said in the middle of the protest there last night. >> how will you answer to god? uh you won't. how will you answer to god? >> he is screaming "how will you answer to god. what should happen? what should be done as far as erasing the mistrust. here we are months later having the same conversation. >> there are a number of steps to be made in order to restore trust with the police and the city in general. the police and the city administration has made several strides in terms of having community forums, events and being at a summit yesterday at greater st. mark church heavily attended by law enforcement but not so much the community in an effort to engage and work together and try to build the trust.

one of the key things there now is the fact that people are calling for the chief to step down. the chief is still there. he's a good person. he is in it for the right reason. it's an impediment to the people in terms of getting justice they think they need and start the relationship of trust rebuilding. >> do you think the police chief should step down? >> i think it would be a positive step for the community if he did. he has a job to do. i'm a firm believer in finishing the job. he's making as many attempts as he can in order to try to regain trust. >> you're saying finishing the job he started. some will argue it's a job he can't do. something needs to be done symbolically. if that's where what the community is asking for. if there were no charges, no indictments and there is action, something that the community of ferguson can see here. symbolically saying this is our way. this is our effort in starting

the healing, starting to reach out. could it happen? >> definitely. i believe it would be a positive step. we have to be careful. if we remove the chief, the new person that takes over, they have to rebuild the trust with the police department. >> they're saying it does need to be rebuilt. sometimes they say, okay, let's get a fresh start. is that not what you're saying? >> it would definitely give us a fresh start. there will be so many fences or relationships that will have to be mended as a result of that. so it will lengthen the process as opposed to making it allow us to get to a trusting relationship sooner. just because of the things that will come with a new person. >> a lot ott stake. many ways that change could be made. we'll see if and when it happens in the streets and communities of ferguson. thank you very much courtney curtis. we appreciate you being with us this afternoon. new this hour the secret service is defending itself this

afternoon following a blistering report in the washington post. the report documents how the secret service failed to respond appropriately after at least seven bullets struck the white house on the night of november 11, 2011. the post reports it took four days for the agency to realize a gunman fired at least seven bullets into the mansion, potentially endangering the obamas' daughters. the secret service is pushing back against the allegations. they tell nbc news the gunshots in 2011 were fired more than a quarter mile away from the white house which added to the uncertainty. they notified park service and d.c. police and assisted in finding the vehicle from which the shots were fired. they never stood down on the investigation. carol lenig joins me now. she wrote the story for the post. does this response contradict the reporting? you mentioned after the shots were initially fired the report

says maybe it's construction further down, stand down, stand down. shots were not fired. >> there are a couple of things that happened that night that are interesting to us and to readers. there was confusion on the ground which is pretty normal in police work. there is confusion over the sounds. stand down is a key moment when shots were fired and a commanding officer on the secret service staff says, you know, it's just a construction vehicle. there are a series of things that happened on this night and in the days after that angered the president and the first lady. remember, their youngest daughter is at home. michelle's mother is home. mali i can't is on her way home. the secret service conclude there is no evidence that the shooting that happened on constitution avenue had any direction at the white house, any connection to the white house, that it looked like two gangsters, to them, shooting at

each other in two cars. the reason the president and first laity were upset was really twofold. one, how could the secret service not discover this? how could it be a house keeper finding a bullet that showed it was a guy shooting into the house. >> it was significant damage. >> it is a historic house. it was about $97,000 in damage. there were bullets and bullet fragments found. the most striking thing is a secret service officeren on the ground is standing under the south portico, hears shots and hears the sound of debris falling and tells her colleagues that night but still is afraid to counter her bosses when they tell her it was two gangster s

shooting at each other. >> so she wasn't sure. she was afraid? >> we only know what she told them later. she said she told many of her colleagues and many of her colleagues contemporaneously said that. officer kerry johnson told me and i heard she heard debris. she was at roll call and her superiors said this is about gangsters fighting and not anything to do with the white house. she said she didn't counter them for fear of being criticize. >> so many fascinating aspects in your peace. this is what struck me with the secret service threat assessment finding the president faces three times as many threats as

predecessors. that's why at one point michelle obama feared for the safety of her family, her children, the president given that you write about her being infuriated about the incident. how was she told? what level of infuhr united nations here? yelling and screaming? >> this goes to the two reasons the president and the first lady were upset. it is the second part. the way she learns about the event is upon returning home a couple days after the shooting, which she's been told has nothing to do with her family, she's greeted by an usher after taking a nap after the long overnight flight from hawaii. usher is simply trying to check on her, make sure she's okay. assumes she knows everything about the bullets being found around noon that day. she didn't. she was aghast. she wanted to know why no one

told her before this moment. agents are screwing around, looking in the grass. an fbi team from the washington field office is meeting to discuss taking down the crime scene. agents are being -- officers of the secret service are being brought in to give the account of what happened that night. it is the first time they are being asked four days after the shooting took place. >> important to note now that we are hearing from the secret service. you mentioned the president faces as many threats as predecessors saying that's false. not the case. what are you hearing now from secret service agents now after the peace coming out. >> many different agencies said the threat spiked. this is part of the reason president obama when he was a candidate was given coverage by the secret service earlier than most candidates for president are. the threats that were made

against him really spiked when he was just a candidate. the officers and agents in the threat assessment. largely agents, said this is partly about race. partly about him being the first black president. there are strange and odd language and some of the threats people articulate. but the race element has depleted over time. the people who are now registering threats against the president, whether they are mentally deranged or just angry are often mad at him about obamacare, about the size of government. >> let me ask you this quickly because we are running out of time. the president was vocal after the fence jumping incident saying he has confidence in the secret service. what do you expect his answer will be? >> i don't know what the president's answer will be. he relies on the amazing secret service for the safety of his

family. they give up enormous parts of his life. he is indebted to them. it seems to me he reached a peace with the secret service. he didn't ask for the resignation of the director, mark sullivan. by all accounts he understood he was trying to do his best in the job. he had confidence in him. i don't know what his confidence level is in director pearson. >> we'll be curious to hear about that. we appreciate it. thank you. >> you bet. >> you are looking at new video of the policeman hunt in pennsylvania for eric freon, suspected of shooting a state trooper and wounding another two weeks ago. police have focused the search on a heavily wooded area near monroe and pike counties in the poconos. police say evidence found in the area on friday leads them to believe frein is in the area. still to come, new video of air strikes against isis.

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female announcer: recycle your old fridge and get $50. schedule your free pickup at: a new series of air strikes are zeroing in on oil refineries under the control of isis. u.s. central command released video of u.s. and allied aircraft striking an isis refinery in syria near the turkish border. u.s. and allied aircraft flew missions today and saturday against other targets in iraq and syria. let's bring in retired army colonel jack jay cobs. we appreciate you being here. we love hearing analysis. let's talk about the

significance of hitting the isle refineries. why target those refineries? >> the life blood of isis is the money that comes from selling this oil on the black market. isis, if nothing else, is a continuing criminal enterprise. account off the oil, cut off the money and cut off the ability to conquer new lands or hold onto the ones you have. >> we are talking about a million dollars a day the organize station is getting when it comes to outside the oil refineries. we are talking about kidnappings, ransoms, selling women to slavery. how can that happen through the other side. >> the majority is from oil and contributions from individuals and families and so on in the gulf. what needs to happen is a crackdown on the banking relationships which harbor money

and produce the money. you do that, i think you will make their lives difficult. demonstrating again that the economic instrument is often more powerful than the military. >> absolutely. you take the money situation with that. then combat on the ground. some say it's there already. you have 1700 there. in some sense those are boots on the ground. how long can air strikes go on before you have to step it up. other nations, coalitions have to say, yes, we will be the ones to put boots on the ground. >> in theory this can go on indefinitely. air strikes, unless they are nuclear, are a tactical, not a strategic measure. in the end only multi sect arab force will have to be on the ground to get rid of isis. it's not going to be us. trust me. >> as far as the american public and what they think of boots on the ground, a new poll today says 72% of americans think we

will be using u.s. boots on the ground despite what president obama has promised. what do you think? >> politicians turned us into a nation of cynics. they have lied many times before. they expect it again. it's interesting if you ask people whether or not you think troops are needed on the ground. they will tell you yes. are we going to have troops on the ground, they say yes. do you like the idea? overwhelmingly they say no. as long as you're not the troops it's okay. >> there is talk about boots on the grounds, a ground fight. how much talk can there be? when is it saying, you know, there will be a press conference, an address to the nation saying it's happening. >> we do and will have special forces and special operations forces on the ground in order to assist what's taking place in the air, training people to go into syria and the rest. there are be a number there. it's unlikely we'll get

conventional combat troops, infantry, armor, artillery, the type we had in iraq certainly in afghanistan as well into syria. very, very unlikely. i think the american populous won't put up with it. i think the politicians are so scared of the backlash nobody will permit that to happen in congress. >> we'll see. >> i hope i'm right. >> you know, we have you coming back again. >> see you next time. >> thank you very much. still to come, saying good-bye to derek jeter in boston playing the last game of his storied career. our friends at now this news broke down his historic run by the numbers.

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>> 31 people are presumed dead in japan after a volcano erupt there had without warning. hundreds of people including children were on mount otaki at the time which has not erupted since 1979. this this cell phone video showed the moment they sent hikers fleeing for life. kelly kobaiya is there london. thanks for joining us. we understand the mountain is active. how difficult has the operation been with the thick ash still in the air? >> it's really a tough environment to perform a search. first of all, you have the ash, as you mentioned. yesterday when this happened, helicopters couldn't get up. searchers couldn't get up at

all. rescuers couldn't bring anybody down. it's a four-hour trek to get to people. too dangerous for searchers to do anything. today the helicopters were able to get up, but weren't able to land. ash on the mountainside is thick. it's difficult to bring anyone down. they hope they have survivors off the mountain. >> to get the hikers there. as far as people they recovered. what are you hearing about the number of people feared dead. >> we are hearing the 31 number. 31 people were unresponsive. no pulse, not breathing. they were covered in ash. they can't say definitively all 31 are dead because that's the job of the medical examiner in japan. so what will happen next is four of the people have been brought

down already. they have been declared dead. searchers, rescuers will go back up tomorrow. if the weather permits. if they are able to bring down the 27 people presumed dead and most likely declared dead, unfortunately by tomorrow. >> hopefully with the conditions, this will improve. thank you. the search continues for a missing university of virginia student hannah graham. canine units spent the weekend scouring the charlesville area. she was reported missing more than two weeks ago. police identified jesse matthew as the last person to have seen graham at a downtown mall. he was arrested after fleeing virginia. a bond hearing is scheduled for thursday. [ male announcer ] some come here

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how they failed to respond appropriately after at least seven bullets struck the white house on the night of november 11 of 2011. the secret service now saying it was an uncertain situation and there is a more to the story. a live report from the white house will be coming up in a few minutes. we are watching other big news on this sunday. chicago airports are still coping with flight cancellations two days after a hire was intentionally set at a regional control center. today 550 flights would be cancelled at o'hare. on friday more than 200 flights were cancelled in and out of chicago airports. this comes as a league faces heavy criticism in its handling of accusations of domestic violence against players. goodell spent three hours meeting with hotline staff listening to stories from victim advocates. the talks were described as emotional for goodell. the truck driver in a crash that

left four college women dead tells police he was distracted by something inside the cabin. the truck collided with a bus carrying a woman's softball team friday. the truck driver declined to say what distracted him before the crash. the search continues now for two men suspected of shooting a ferguson police officer. according to police it happened last night when an officer encountered two men standing outside a closed community center. as the officer started to chase them, one of the men turned around and shot the officer in the arm. he's recovering this hour. this comes as heightened tensions following the shooting of 18-year-old michael brown by darren wilson. police officers don't think it was related to the protest. president obama talk theed about the situation in ferguson in law enforcement. >> the anger and emotion that followed his death awakened the nation again.

to the reality of the people in this room have long understood which is in too many communities around the country the gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. >> a lot to cover. let's bri ee's bring in the bra. zerlina maxwell, john ral son and hernan molina. let's get to it. let's talk about it. with no charges in ferguson for the police officer here, no charges, no indictment, nothing changed. no one sitting down as far as the police department. is this inevitable? >> yes. i think nothing is going to change in terms of the on the ground tension until there is an arrest in the case. people will know bob mccullough wants to press charges but has chosen to go the grand jury route. many are suspicious and are

skeptical with good reason. >> symbolically do you think the stepping down of the police chief would be a good start. >> clearly his p.r. prescribed apology letter he read on camera was too little, too late. the people in ferguson don't want your late apology that you're reading that someone wrote for you. >> two months later here we are having the discussion. here you have the president of the united states talking about a gulf of mistrust between residents and law enforcement. how significant is it that you have the president now saying this. we are bombing syria, iraq, and so on on the foreign policy front. then he's saying this. >> it's not fair to the president to think he can't multi task and talk about a lot of different things. certainly talking the to the congressional black caucus. everyone gets the sub text of what he's talking about. it goes on in almost every urban

community in the country. not just ferguson. not just washington, d.c. not just las vegas. there is a culture of distrust built up between predominantly white police officers and minority community. it exists here. it exists everywhere. if the president of the united states who, by the way, has been somewhat reluctant to talk about this until some recent incidents and has almost creeded that to eric holder who is now leaving, i think if he's not going to use his bully pulpit to talk about that it's an important domestic social issue. >> we'll get to how eric holder leaving will affect that investigation going on. in an interview with the associated press yesterday the parents of michael brown said ferguson police chief thomas jackson needs to step down. they responded to the apology this week. michael brown senior said an apology would be when darren wilson has handcuffs, processed

and charged with murder. how likely is that to happen at this point? >> not likely, unfortunately. that's why it is important that the next attorney general continues the line of eric holder. applying the law in a way that it's applied kwatly and not disparately how it is perceived for americans, minorities in this countriment that's why in particular in the case of ferguson it's important that the justice department continues with the investigation and doesn't defer to the local authorities much less. it's probably filled with people who do not understand very likely the issue of race as it is applied as it pertains to the application of the law. >> we saw it in the days after

the unrest at the height of it that he was there. what does it mean for the investigation. who may come to replace him. they can pick up where he left off. >> the conversation about who will replace him is an interesting one. hopefully as a woman there's been signals that it might be a woman. jennifer granholm, former governor of michigan. but the career people in the justice department understand the seriousness of the issue and racial profiling generally. the brown family has a lot of faith that the investigation will still continue on. holder was largely the person that the republicans attacked by proxy. they attacked holder by proxy. >> this touched on how the attorney general will be a she. we talked about when alex wit yesterday interviewed and kept saying she, she, shement.

>> i'm not going to say. i got in trouble last time, but she will be a great attorney general. >> you said a woman, she. >> she will be a great attorney general. i won't put her name out. we'll see. i don't want her not to be confirmed by the senate. >> her and she. she could have said they, not it, referring to the he/she thing. what do you think, john? >> i think clearly ogiltree thinks it will be a she. maybe one of the names mentioned. i hate to say it. we have an attorney general in nevada who is a lat that, former assistant prosecutor not doing anything for a few years. why isn't she in the mix? >> could they oppose on the left and right. >> we see what eric holder went through for confirmation.

this in a way points to the importance of the midterm elections. it should be a motivation for democrats to come out. when i speak to democrats i speak about minorities to come out and vote in the midterm elections because the senate is basically what is at stake and the senate is the next attorney general. >> before we leave you here, i want to switch to roger goodell. we have seen reports where he was in the austin, texas, domestic violence hotline. of course we know the handling of the accusations of domestic violence against players and their punishment on that. he spent hours listening to stories from advocates. there were reports, again, you have to consider the source. from the nfl.com website that he was moved to tears at one point. what do you make of it? >> i need a tape of that to feel that it's something that happened. the bottom line is this is a

small step in the right direction. the nfl can take the lead on this. they have the fan base. >> do you think they are busy playing catch-up. >> they are leading from behind on this issue. they have to take it seriously. this is the first step. this is going to the source. maybe he can donate some of his $44 million salary to the domestic violence hotline which is under staffed for lack of funding. >> reportedly the emotion they saw. >> i need tape, proof. >> we'll see if it exists. thank you. we appreciate you being here. another black eye for the secret service. a new report details the night bullets hit the white house three years ago. agents are accused of not reacting properly. now the sec credit service has a different version. we go to the white house for details. stay with us. m always gives you the good news in person,

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new this hour the secret service is tfgd itself from a report on the front page of the washington post. the report found they failed to respond appropriately after gun fire struck the first family's residence on the night of november 11 of 201. it took officials four days to discover the bullets struck the building. the president's youngest daughter sasha and grandmother were there. mali i can't was due back during the time of the shooting. the revelations come as the sec vet service is under scrutiny over an incident when an intruder made it inside the white house doors before he was arrested. kristen welker is at the white house this afternoon. thanks for joining us. what is the secret service saying this afternoon. >> they are acknowledging that

there was initial confusion surrounding this event. they say they launched an immediate investigation to try to figure out what happened. they make the point that typically when shots are fired or there is an incident like this there is confusion. they put their resources into getting to the bottom of what happened. just to recap what happened this was back in 2011. a man parked on constitution avenue about a quarter of a mile away from the white house and used a semi-automatic rifle to fire shots at the white house. sounded like shots were fired. a number of officers thought they heard shots. a supervisor advised everyone to stand by saying the noise was coming from a nearby construction site. an official at the secret service saying the order was with given but officers didn't necessarily stand down. they did continue to investigate what happened. having said that, it wasn't until four days later they

discovered that as many as several shots hit the residence and that was when a house keeper discovered shards of broken glass on the truman balcony. the obamas were infuriated over that at that point in time. sasha was home. mali i can't returned home later that night. the first lady and president obama were traveling the night the incident happened. they found out several days later they were infuriated because it took several days to find out. also because of the way it was covered. we should point out that surveillance was stepped up in the wake of the incident as well. there will be a house hearing about the fence jumping incident. i'm sure the 2011 incident will be raised as well. that's going to happen on

tuesday. secret service director julia pearson set to testify. >> very quickly. you have the 2011 shooting we were talking about. a year later the prostitution partying in columbia incident. then the fence jumper. would uh you say faith in the secret service is diminishing somewhat? >> there are questions and have been questions and concerns about the leadership at the agency. having said that, julia pearson was appointed by president obama in the wake of that scandal that you raised. really, her goal is to get this this agency back on track to restore the public's faith in the agency and to restore the faith of lawmakers in washington who have been critical of this secret service. this latest incident with the fence jumper doesn't help. she's, i'm sure, going to defend the agency on tuesday when she appears before the congressional committee and will map out the

steps that the sec vet service as taken in the wake of what happened in columbia different from the fence jumping incident in which there was a security breach. an intruder making his way inside the white house. >> curious to see how and if the president will address it and what he'll say. >> thanks, frances. >> a new fbi report says mass shootings jumped significantly. we'll talk to three moms who held vigils at the white house for years now. do they expect to see gun control reform happen soon? that's next. your customers, our financing. your aspirations, our analytics. your goals, our technology. introducing synchrony financial, bringing new meaning to the word partnership. banking. loyalty. analytics.

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incidents in the first seven years study and then 16.4 over the last seven years. we'll bring in three people who have been trying to change the statistics. linda finkle, barbara isis and others have been lobbying for gun reform since july of 2012. their group is called we the people for sensible gun laws. thanks again for being with us. let's start this, you are all moms, moms are busy in keeping a lot of balls in the air, so linda, why do you do it? >> why do i do it? i do it because i see that america is becoming a culture of violence where our most precious youth and young people are becoming the nept victims. and i feel we cannot sit on the sidelines anymore. we have to make the united states a safer culture for our children and our grandchildren. >> barbara, you have been out on

the front of the white house every year for the last two years, especially with so many other groups spearheaded by moms already. why start your own? >> well, first of all, i have been teaching 2 to 4-year-olds for almost 40 years. and part of what preschool teachers do is teach alternatives to violence. and extend that and if you are using guns you are not using your words, so you are incredibly violent. but the turning point for me came in the aurora shooting in the movie theater, i don't know why that touched me more than anything else. i woke up and the first thought that came into my head was, why isn't anybody doing anything about this? why have the president silent? and why is congress doing nothing? so i just came up with the idea to stand in front of the white

house, which is every american's right, and talk to people because i'm an educator. i wanted to educate people one at a time. and tell them what is going on. a lot of people don't even know what is going on. >> even with the three of you, even with other groups out there for the same cause, do you think that the impact is being made? >> oh, yeah. i think we are making an amazing impact and i think all three of us will speak to that in that we have talked to at least 100 people from all over the country and all over the world every week, and with the social media, they have put us on facebook, we have these signs, we have the mass shooting timeline. all who have the is being spread all over the world. so i'm a great believer in margaret meade saying you change the world one person at a time. as a matter of fact, that's the only thing that ever does. so i asked my two best friends to join me and they were totally

on board. and we started making signs and have been out there ever since. and sometimes it's ten people, sometimes it's 20 and sometimes it's three. >> and maybe that number will grow. i'm sure you are hoping for that. helen, we'll talk about this, former congresswoman gabrielle giffords "enough" book comes out in two days. are we seeing a change with is this or are we at a standstill of reform? >> i think every single piece of movement, no matter what corner it comes from in the process of helping americans to look at this problem of gun violence, is of tremendous benefit. and each and every one of our organizations or small groups like ours has a different agenda, has a different approach. we find that having those one-on-one conversations is vital in just waking somebody up to the fact that, you know, maybe you are going to be touched by gun violence in a

way. and maybe having this conversation will do something to prevent it. i talked with a young woman from kentucky who told me, oh, yeah, i've got guns in my home. and i got two little kids. and i said, do you keep your guns locked? and she said, well, yeah, i think so. i mean, so just asking her to reflect on that. and also to reflect on the fact that she's letting some young children of hers to go play with their friends and to ask that question of their friends. >> we appreciate you three being here. we expect you to be there on monday as well. linda, barbara, helen, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. on this sunday afternoon, that's our show here on msnbc. we'll be back next saturday at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. until then, keep it right here for the latest news updates as well as on msnbc.com.

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friday night in los angeles, a movie actor and four of her friends were murdered. >> they were murders that rocked the nation. four months after the brutal killings, evil had