slightly better. let's make the research be really creative and find something totally new. that's what we have to be doing. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. she's out. let's play "hardball." >> the axe has fallen. a washington ritual of blame, attack and execution has run its course. julia pierson, director of the secret service has resigned. it turns out unendurable weeks heading an agency that nobody believes stands up to its historic legacy. it came last night with the "washington post" report that an armed man with a criminal

record, an armed man was allowed to ride in the elevator with the president of the united states. that must have been an unchallengeable challenge to miss pierson. a bigger challenge confront as bigger fish. how is the president going to get people to follow him through a dimly lit tunnel. endlessly bad news about a spreading terrorism and a spreading disease. it is now part of a trinity of horrors. ebola which we'll go deeper into the next segment. isis which continues reaching for more territory. a land ruled by the harshest of islamist rule. that's what we're facing with the president. he being out on point. all these crisis have no quick fixes. president obama ran on hope and the new. right now everything new is bad. and this right now is the age of containment and it will require him to come to terms of with an image of the presidency he never wanted but now must could not front.

president obama the hawk, the interventionist and the custodial chief executive, just trying to avoid seeing stupid stuff done close to him. the chief political columnist for the politico. was this person pushed or did they jump? how would we frame this resignation? >> a lot of people pushing. she recognized her maintaining the job wasn't tenable anymore. she said publicly congress had lost fate in her. the press secretary at the white house said the president himself touched on it. the agency needed new leadership and was willing to accept the resignation. they said they didn't know about this haste incident until yesterday. it had to be disturbing in the middle of this issue. this came about very fast. just this morning they were defending her on tv and they

were saying she was still the best leader for the agency. >> you're right. in fact this morning, let's watch this. the white house said the president was sticking by julia pierson. speaking for the president on morning joe today. >> are you telling me this morning that the president of the united states and the first lady have confidence in julia pierson to run an agency that is supposed to protect their two daughters? >> yes. they have confidence. these are men and women who wake upper day, professionals. >> i'm not talking about professionals. i think they deserve to have better leadership. >> she takes it very seriously. i can tell that you the president and staff take it very seriously. the president is concerned about the security around his family as any parent would be. >> it looks like rolling disclosure. if the president didn't just decide today. he must have decided to say he is sticking with her.

>> i think the president decided that he had been misled by the secret service director or the staff had been misled. he was not getting the straight facts about first, how far this last intruder penetrated into the white house. they had been misled about a shooting incident which endangered the children of the president and he couldn't live with that. like most couple, the president cares more about the safety of his spouse and his children than himself and his children and his spouse care more about his safety than themselves. and they don't feel safe in the place where they should feel the safest which is the white house. in washington, d.c. you know, on 18 acres. you can set up a safety perimeter around 18 acres. anyone who lives or works in the white house ought to be safe

once they enter that perimeter and they're just not. >> after yesterday's performance, some lawmakers began calling for pierson's resignation. >> talking about how she got there. i've come to the conclusion that my confidence and my trust in this director, miss pierson, has eroded and i do not feel comfortable with her in that position. let me go back to peter baker. you're one of the stars. how is he putting fet a new role? it is not only the incompetence. he said it was unlikely. we played the tape a couple times last night. he said it is unlikely that somebody will come here carrying ebola. well, they're here. and we have isis now that looks like it will keep growing. they're close to turkey today. they'r

they're still on the offensive. how at the adapting to this new role of custodian of bad news rather than the man from hope. >> you're right. not a lot of hope right now. a cascade of one thing or other things that have become huge furor. remember, the prisoner swap with bergdahl, the v.a. scandal that forced the withdrawal of shinseki. there are so many things that happened the past few weeks. the last thing they want is for the secret service to become an issue, that is something that should be assumed and rehide upon and that's why you saw this may out so quickly. >> let's get tough here. is this the problem of a second

term that presidents get hazy and cut off from the country and they start picking deputies for jobs? the lazy thing, somebody leads. they don't mix new people, new hot shots to fill these jobs. they just keep promoting the person whose turn it is and they're not as good as the person they picked the first time. >> yeah. that is the nature of a second term and the danger of a second term. you don't want to feel like you're going with the b team. noon, sometime those deputies turn out to be really good because they've had the experience for six years. i would depend. >> why is this second term -- let me go to roger. this is all coming together. you've written brill yandlely. what is going on?

is it just the earth is turning and you can't keep doing new good things because the events which are often bad keep coming at you. >> sometimes events are just bigger than the people who try to control the events. i think you may be right about promoting the second person in charge to be in charge. but you can accuse president obama of a lot of things. i don't think laziness, intellectual or otherwise, is one of them. i think he is a man who attacks problems. i think he's had terrible bad luck in his second term. he has faced terrible crises and will continue to do so. and he is facing exactly what he didn't want to face. he was the peace candidate when he first ran. he wanted to get the troops back home from wherever they were. now he's the president sort of an endless warfare. and the next president's term is the way he put it.

this is not what he wanted. i think he is doing the best he can. >> there are reports now that isis is adapting to u.s. air strikes. and nbc news is reporting the isis army has overrun an iraqi army base 50 mile from baghdad. if his generals recommend an american ground war, his biggest supporters would be from the hard right. only 32% of democrats would support ground action but 63% of republicans and cap this, two-thirds of the teach would back a ground war. i have saluted so many time, dance with the one that brung you. they like what he said in the early part of the century in 2002. he was singed out by people looking for an anti-war candidate. after they found howard dean they found him. now he is could not fronting with us the probability that we're going into a long air war against isis and we're hearing from a lot of people. it seems like the military wants

to go further. what will happen with his politics with that? >> yeah. a very good question. he does say publicly that he will not send in large amounts of ground troops. i find it hard to imagine that he would do that. i think that's such a barrier to cross. given that he can come into office to get us out of the middle east wars. but there are challenges. do you single in special forces for more discreet operations? do you send them in to help army units? figure out how to fight themselves? do you send them in to spot targets for air strikes? they may not be in combat directly shooting but they're in harm's way. the more you put them in harm's way, the more chances you have for american casualties. i think that's something you want to avoid. it seem to be the question.

>> and before you get me accusing this president of being physically lazy. there is a social laziness. refusing to meet new people and possibilities. i think this second term cabinet is not up to the first term cabinet. they never are. you know that. kennedy went out and met people like mcnamara and rusk. and he talked they will into itself recruited people. he didn't even know they will. presidents should go out and look for people. they should be practicing affirmative action all the time leading or else they get atrophied into that little world. people like valerie and mrs. obama. you're just listening to the same people all the time. i know it is a rigorous demand but it is a real one. or you will get smaller as your presidency goes on. thank you. we're learning more about the man fighting for his life in that dallas hospital after

coming in with ebola. the cdc said it is monitoring everyone he's come in contact with and that apparently includes a number of school age children. my question, who is responsible for keeping ebola out of this country and how did this guy get in? and a numb received a complaint from gay republican saying he could be part of a political party also joining us, michelle bernard and sam stein. then one in four the. rand paul's father says that's something we should cheer. secession. didn't we go through that in the 1860s? finally let me finish with a trio of these challenges we face as a country. we were flattered when regenerist beat a $100 cream. flabbergasted when we creamed a $300 cream.

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omar gonzalez pled not guilty for jumping over the fence at the white house. the judge ordered him to undergo an evaluation.

health experts including the cdc is monitoring 18 people who came in contact with a man fighting for his life. he is the first individual to be diagnosed with ebola in the united states. the patient's name is thomas eric duncan. he flew from liberia. at the time he wasn't showing any symptoms of the disease according to the new york time before leaving for the u.s., he helped carry a pregnant woman to a local hospital. she later died of ebola. texas governor rick perry said some of the people who came into contact with him are young people. >> today we learned that some

school age children have been identified as having had contact with the patient. and are now being monitored at home for any signs of the disease. >> the questions tonight, how stringent are the medical screenings in place to prevent someone affected with ebola from traveling to the united states. and who is responsible? now that the united states has seen its first case of the disease, how much risk is there that it will spread? the director of the national institutes of allergy and infectious diseases. tony, my friend, i want to know. you're thinking about how did this person get through? what will stop future people from coming through? especially from west africa with the disease. >> when the person got on the plane, he was infected, obviously, but he was completely without symptoms. and he flew on the 20th of september, arrived here, and went for another four days with no symptoms.

and it was only on the 24th of september that he developed symptoms. so it is virtually impossible to prevent someone from coming here when they're not symptoms. if you go to the airport in monrovia, in liberia, and have a fever or symptom attic, they won't let you on the plaenl. but he was asymptomattic. the encouraging news is that being without symptoms, the people on the may not were not at risk. only when he became symptomatic after a few days in the states were people who came into contact with him at risk of getting infected. >> we're not dealing with a vet rin airy situation. he is a person who knows he came in could not tagt with ebola and recently. he knew that. does anyone ask you that question? they ask you, have you been here animals? have you been near vegetables

lately? they ask those questions. were the questions put to that man leaving monrovia of he was in contact with anyone with ebola or not? is there that kind of rigor to ask that obvious question? >> the answer is yes, you can obviously do that. i'm not so sure that he actually knew that the person had ebola. >> he died. >> excuse me? >> they died. >> i know. but he did not know the person had ebola. that was the point. >> they're in the middle of an epidemic. i'm using common sense. i'm not a doctor. it seems the possibility of infection is pretty high if they had the symptoms of ebola and they die of something that looks like ebola and you're coming from monrovia, liberia and we don't have any way of doing, at least honlsy test. i don't know. >> honesty tests are almost an impossible thing to do, chris. the issue of screening people

for symptoms and fever works well. and as i said before, i was not surprised when i heard that this person got through. because we've been saying that. when someone is exposed, infected but not yet sick, it is virtually impossible to determine whether that person has ebola. that's what happened with this person. >> how can the president of the united states say two weeks ago, it is unlikely something like this would happen. he said it would be unlikely. it isn't unlikely. it just happened. >> well, you can be unlikely and still happen. it is unlikely but in fact it isn't impossible. >> how do you tell the american people don't worry, it's unlikely. you can't keep saying it is unlikely if it's happened. can you? >> well, it depends. it is still an unlikely situation that someone would get through. it is still unlikely. >> let me go to you. the american people would like to know there is a wall between us and ebola. we have a wall? can we protect it?

>> well, i think with these types of news and headlines there is fear being struck. the key is we should not be panicking. the american health care system has been studying this for years. they have had systems in place for years. they've done researches, drills, training. even when the doctor came back, there were nurses on vacation who wanted to come back early so they could be part of the support system to stop this. we may not be able to prevent every person from coming back here but we have to rest assure the american health care system is the best. they have protocols in place, emergency plans in place. even when the students came back from international travel at the beginning of the college year, the colleges had set up emergency plans to make sure they can monitor these people. we are isolating this person and finding all their contacts. while people are concerned we need to look at the bright side. and ebola is not the same in

this country as it is in africa. for example, the three people who have come to emory to receive treatment, they have all lived and survived. that's a testament to our health care system which is very different from what is going on in africa. >> this guy is a liberian national. why did you say come back here? i can understand an american getting back in relatively easily. aren't there rules when you're trying to come in from there'd world country? can you just get on a plane? does anyone stop you from getting on the plane? >> they do have protocols in place for airline workers to look for symptoms hike the previous physician was talking about. if they do not have symptoms, you cannot isolate the entire world. we cannot say everybody who travels has to be isolated. he did not have silts. he did not have a fever or anything to make us wonder or worry. the key is when he did receive care, he is being treated and isolated and they are monitoring the contact. >> what do you think you should do if you were president of the united states in material of letting people in from that part

of the world? west africa where you have a high situation developing. we're sending 3,000 soldiers over there so it is serious business. it may be time for some serious containment policies that we haven't put into effect yet. >> i would not restrict entry into the country from those places. i think that the negative issues that arise when you do that far outweigh the advantage. and as was just said, as i just said, screening people for symptoms and not allowing someone with a fever or symptoms to get on the plane works well. this person did get through, chris. but as it was just said, there will not be an outbreak in this country because we have the capability of doing just what we're doing with this patient. isolating him, giving him good

care, protecting our health workers and doing contact tracing that would prevent an outbreak. we can handle this. and it will stop in its tracks. there might be someone of the contacts who gets infected. i hope not. if they do, there still will not be an outbreak. so i think cordoning off the country and not letting anybody from that country to come to the united states is not a good idea. so i agree with the president that that restriction should not occur. >> doctor, let me ask you. according to everything we've heard. the incubation period from which you get the contact of the disease and it shows up in serious symptoms. from two to 21 days. that's an awful long time in which could you get through security, get through the airline entry. get to a plane and get here. between 2 and 21 days. a lot of time to get here when you're carrying the disease. isn't that a problem right there? >> well, not necessarily. again, if you don't want anyone ever to get in, then you have a problem with the time of the

asymptomatic period. even if someone does get through, we can isolate and contact, trace and prevent an outbreak. if your argument you is don't want someone ever, ever with ebola to get into the country. that is a very draconian way to stop that. but if you have the capability of containing it and not having an outbreak, then things like this can be put under control. just like we're seeing in texas. he is in good care. he is isolated. and the contacts are being traced. >> okay. up next, u.s. congressman jim mcdermott don as jump suit to pay tribute to bruce lee. my family, we're close...

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the recent security breaches at the white house to cost the chief her job. luckily, after she is escorted out of building, it should be pretty easy for her to get back in. just walk in. >> that was of course seth meyers on julia pierson who did resign from the secret service today. 1600 pennsylvania avenue might be the most famous address in the country but sarah palin couldn't get it straight in her speech at the value voters summit last week. she called it 1400 pennsylvania avenue. here's how steve colbert reacted. >> don't retreeflt you reload with truth. which i know is an endangered species at 1400 pennsylvania avenue any way. >> yes. the truth is in short supply at 1400 pennsylvania avenue. because every one there, everyone at 1400 pennsylvania avenue keeps insisting it is a plaza in front of the willard

hotel. but you won't hear that from the liberal nbc news over at 20 rock. >> 20 rock. next up, it is not halloween just yet. that didn't stop one u.s. congressman from dressing up like martial arts icon interesting late bruce lee. that's 77-year-old bruce mcdermott. the exhibit opens this weekend. the bright yellow jump suit matches the one the actor wore in his last film, game of death in 1973. if his goal was to get attention, the congressman certainly got some. finally, one final plot twist in the bizarre saga of former senator. he pled guilty for lewd conduct after being caught in a sex sting at a minnesota airport bathroom. once the arrest was made public,

he with drew his plea and fought the charges in court. now a federal judge has ruled that the senator improperly used campaign money to cover those legal bills of his, ordering him to pay the amount in addition to the fine for his misconduct. up next interesting round table on the secret service resignation. california governor jerry brown are at the vanguard doing something about gun violence. great to see him in action.

welcome back to "hardball." secret service director julia pierson has resign after a brutal hearing on capitol hill. this is after the first case of ebola has been diagnosed here and gay republicans in the election season. we get into this story from the perspective of a gay republican who says he risked losing friends who can't understand how he can be gay and a republican. plus, california governor jerry brown in the vanguard again as always. this time with a new gun law that empowers family members to keep firing from a relative who may pose a threat.

this let's go to michelle. the ebola thing. i may be chicken little. i don't care. because i've been hearing a lot of comforting words from the president on down, don't worry, it is unlikely ebola ever will get here. well, it's here. and i don't understand how the people have a plan for finding out if they have a way to find out if someone has been in contact as this person was. and we now know the system doesn't work. is it okay to leave it the way it is or do we have to change it? your thoughts. >> i'm probably going to be the trogladite. i am terrified of this. i love hearing the doctor speak. it is his job to playing us feel comfortable and make us believe this is not going to become an epidemic in the united states and i hope he is correct. if i were one of the parents of

those kids in texas who had been exposed to this person that we now know has the ebola virus, i would be asking my senator, my members of congress, should we not be doing something more and is it possible that we should look at making travel between certain countries in west africa and the united states a little more difficult? so we can protect our shores and make sure that this epidemic doesn't reach us here. >> here's the latest from the white house. josh earnest who had a little bad day on the other front, the secret service, about whether procedures will change to better detect possible ebola cases coming into the country. >> there are protocols in place where those individuals who are leaving west africa and traveling to the west are screened. but there are screening procedures in place at our border. so as individuals enter the country, they are observed by customs and border patrol and others to protect the broader american public. so there's nothing about this

case that we know so far that would indicate any weakness or any flaws in that system right now. >> gregory, are you happy with the way it's working right now as an american? we can go with not zero tolerance and live with the fact there will be some people that come in. better than sealing off those countries in a more like a containment strategy. >> i would say it is not time to panic yet. i know that there are democrats and republicans from texas. i know senator ted cruz has been monitoring the situation himself. and i'm confident right now that elected official are doing the thing that they need to do to make sure that this situation is being monitored. air travel is terrible enough. adding more complication -- >> let me go to sam. it seems there is a long distance between doing hardly anything and panicking. i'm not talking panicking. how about effective control? take 30 seconds on this.

okay? containment. all of a sudden the president went from hope and new thing is on containment, isis, ebola, and not doing stupid stuff at home. he is in a custodial role politically. it is not very much fun. people won't be thrill by it. >> that's a broad question for 30 seconds. >> look. unless i'm mistaken, none of us on this panel are doctors. i'm going to put my trust at this point in time in the medical professionals who said this disease, while it is clearly deadly, while posing significant problems to the health system, can be contained in the american health care system. i trust them. i understand the raw emotions of this whole thing. it makes sense to me. if i were in dallas, texas, i would probably be concerned. i think the solutions we're envisioning are pretty drastic. i'm not sure they can work. if we just shut down flights from liberia to america, what is to stop someone from liberia to france to america.

there are consequences over the action. you've probably been through it like i've been through it. they witness it. they look to see if there's any nervousness. jack it up a bit from what we're doing now. nobody asked if he was in contact with an ebola victim. he was carrying someone and that person died. >> the problem you run into is that a lot of time, people carrying the virus don't show symptoms and are not sure they've been in contact. >> this guy was. >> i'm saying, ask those questions. >> isn't it a fact alone that you can carry the virus and not show it more reason than not to actually do something a little more than what we're doing now? i'm not saying cut off all air travel. under no circumstances saying that. but we've got to do more than

what we're doing now. he got into the country. >> the clear thing to do is to get it under control in the root causes of it. >> thanks for joining us. i want to get to the gate thing. i want to get to jerry brown. look what the guy did. he's saying we have to find a way to get to dangerous people. you may have a crazy person in your family who has too many guns. it could be any group. hard right or hard left. you can go to a judge and say i want a restraining order. this person shouldn't have a gun anymore. they can take it and they can fight it. at least there's a procedure for keeping guns out of the people who their relatives know are unstable and dangerous. >> i saw bravo to jerry brown. i know the conventional wisdom is that he is a little different.

but i'll tell you. and already the people, you know, there are people saying this is horrible. it is going to take away the rights of law abiding citizens. what about the rights of victims? they have that gentleman out in california last year. his parents tried to get help. they were unable to get help. they could have saved lives. this might put a dent in some instances of domestic violence and other issues. congress would sort of emulate that. would you take cars away from alcoholics? i'm looking for more freedom. not less. >> you wouldn't take car keys away from a drunk? >> i would take car keys away. put a device on there are steering wheel. a breath lieser and a lot of other things. i would take all sex abusers and put them somewhere where they can't get to people either. it is this is important legislation.

>> gregory has opened up a can of worms. he is service drinks to the guy in the car. just kidding. but i'll tell you, drunks shouldn't drive. if you have a drunk in the family you know drives drunk. you'd better find a way to keep him out of that car. ron paul says americans who embrace secession are acting in the grand tradition. jefferson davis, robert e. lee. it cost the lives of 600,000 americans. the civil war. this guy is saying we have to try this secession thing. is he helping his son run for president? i don't think so. (male announcer) it's happening. today, more and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about long-acting levemir®, an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. and levemir® helps lower your a1c. levemir® is now available in flextouch® -

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sweating, extreme drowsiness, dizziness, or confusion. (male announcer) today's the day to ask your doctor about levemir® flextouch. covered by nearly all health insurance and medicare plans. the governor wants the confederate flag removed. it was moved from the top of the state house dome in 2000 to a pole on the grounds themselves. now she wants it gone entirely replaced with the american flag. he said he doesn't want south carolina to be celebrated as a state that left america but as a state that loves america. we'll be right back .

i don't know how to compare chances from one election to another. but i think peel are hungry for something more. and i think that we've run good candidates in the past, that have been our nominee but hasn't been enough. i don't think the party is big enough to win again until we become a bigger party. that means more diverse. black, brown, white, young, old, rich, poor. we need more diversity in our party. that's what i've spent a lot of time trying to reach out to new constituencies and saying, hey, democrats haven't done a very good job protecting your right to privacy. i think republicans will do a better job. >> that was rand paul in the key state of south carolina. while senator paul has his sights set on 2016, one member of his family might present a challenge to his presidential ambitions. it gives reasons to be hopeful.

senator paul's father, ron paul was also a presidential candidate, encouraged more secessionist movements in the u.s. he wrote americans who embrace secession are acting in a grand american tradition. the declaration of independents was written to justify secession from britain. supporters of liberty should cheer the growth in support for secession. the growth of support for secession should cheer all supporters of freedom as devolving power to smaller units of government is one of the best ways to guarantee peace, property, liberty. a i've spoken to your group. as the democratic party tends to be much more pro gay marriage or same sex marriage, your party, at least formally, in the voices of its major leaders, is against it. how do you stand?

>> you started the segment by talking about rand paul. it is important to say that even rand paul, while he might have a position on gay marriage is someone who supported the supreme court. someone who is reaching out to those nontraditional voters while others are merely giving lip service to that, he is putting those words into action. we'll talk about how he can be gay and republican. there are shades of gray in the republican parties. and people are seeing that. republicans do not walk in lock step on the marriage equality issue. there are good conservative who's are supporters of marriage equality. and largely in the gom right now there's a detente. they see it is not a winning issue. those who are supportive are speaking up. they realize, this is the time of an historic moment to take a stand. >> i agree with that. i think you're right.

there are shades of guardrail. you see funders are now trending platform in 2016 and it's going to see it's vehemently against same-sex marriage. unless you have an insight into how you change that, that seems to be the big problem for you guys. >> i get it sort of, but -- and there are things about the republican platform that are good. the belief i believe in personal responsibility is a good part of the platform. the difficulty i believe personally for any member of the lgbt community and african americans and women as well is how do you remain a part of a party that seemingly does not believe in justice, freedom and equality for all? it's wonderful that there's somebody in the party that's willing to fight for the rights of the lgbt community -- >> michelle. >> -- you got to fight from within, but i just continue know.

my hats off to you that you're able to do it. >> thanks for the compliment. i'm more interested to see who the party's nominee is as opposed to what the platform says. focusing on the platform is only something political wonks and democrats seem to be focusing on now. >> but, but, but, but the candidate. >> it doesn't matter what you're convention agrees to. it doesn't matter. >> but it does matter because whoever the candidate is, we know at least during the primary season they're going to swing as far right as they possibly can so the people who love and admire ted cruz and other members of the far right will vote for them. that's the danger. >> i'm more concerned that you're going to have a democratic party platform that supports marriage equality. you have a nominee in hillary clinton whose position is to the right of everyone in her party. hillary clinton believes marriage is an issue that should be settled with the states. that's the same opinion on marriage equality as senator rand paul has. i'd be more concerned with the nominee than the platform. >> to be fair bill clinton is the one who signed into law the

defense of marriage act, the don't ask, don't tell. no one is perfect. but from my vantage point, the democratic party seems to be the party that most people are putting forth the rights for all. >> i just want to interject one thought. all of us grown-ups had differences with the party we may normally vote for and we all have conflicts. the issue of abortion, i like hillary clinton's stated opinion to make it safe, legal and rare. let me ask you about this. i want greg to start since he's such a hot ticket. how can rand paul call for secession which is the worst thing that ever happened in this country. 600,000 people dead shooting at each other in point blank range. why would he say secession, using that word as a good thing to cheer for in this country. >> there was an interview that ron paul did with the national journal where he was able to clarify his position. he did say that secession is

something that's not a reality because when the civil war occurred we decided as a nation we'd be stronger as a union. >> not as a nation. wait a minute. >> the nuance lost in the. >> 600,000 people were dead deciding that issue. we didn't decide. we had a civil war over slavery and whether it could be expanded into the territories or not. that's what the fight was about. and why we went to war. so we didn't decide. secession is a bad thing. it's unconstitutional. you can't just step out and take french leaf if you're in the united states in rural california, you can't do it. why talk about it? >> details, chris, details. >> i would suspect that the young mr. paul is probably going to have to stay out of this or at least come out what his father has said. most of the american public will be fine with saying everyone's got somebody who is a little bonkers in his family. for the african-americans that the young mr. paul is reaching

out to, even the thought of someone saying secession is reasonable is very scary. >> i think, michelle, i think you're being very kind. i think we shouldn't necessarily have to answer to the positions of our relatives. rand paul has made the point that hillary clinton should be accountable for the discretions of her husband. so by his own standard i think he's going to have to answer these. i don't think he should be tarred with them. i'd like to make one point. the previous discussion we had was about ebola appearing in the state of texas, texas who is led by governor rick perry who has hinted at secession. what are they doing as soon as ebola shows is up, they call the cdc. >> every time something goes wrong we call for washington. >> sam, you made a strong, cruel point to the subsidiary itself there. thank you so much. great roundtable today. who lives in a world of conflict but so do we all.

let me finish tonight with this scary new world we live in. we americans like most of the western world like to think short term. you have a problem, you face it, you figure it out, you fix it. how do we secure our country from terrorism today when we don't really have a plan for ridding the world of isis? how do we secure ourselves from ebola when we don't even have a

plan for keeping it out of our country? then there's this matter of incompetence by the government. in fact right now with regard to the secret service on top of all this is the president himself. barack obama was a visionary who thought the chief challenge was the change the course of this country in foreign policy. that's why and how he was elected. he was against the war in iraq. now here he is not just needs to set a new course and follow it but finding way to protect this country against its enemies, foreign and domestic. politics is not predictable. it's phenomenal. things happen. and lately those things are very troubling. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the president concluded that new leadership of that agency was required. >> the head of secret service resigns as we learn the white house wasn't even told about the latest security breach. >> the white house first learned of that incident yesterday afternoon. >> then, did a dallas ho