of dollars over the years we're sub ssidizing the coal industry when we could have spent that in many other ways. >> that's "all in" for for example. rachel maddow starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. when dr. kent brantly got sick in liberia, he had been working in that country trying to stop the ebola epidemic. he'd been treating ebola patients. and ebola, even in places with a lot of cases, even in places that don't have health systems that are in great western shape, even in those places ebola is not always fatal. some ebola patients survive. and when doctor kent brantly got sick himself in liberia, he got two things in terms of treatment. he got access to a very, very rare dose of the scarce and hard to manufacture experimental treatment for ebola which is

called zmapp. and the other thing he was given to try to cure him of ebola, to help his body in fighting off the ebola infection is he was given a transfusion of the blood of one of his patients. he was given a transfusion of blood from one of the patients who he cured in africa, in liberia. a liberian boy who contracted ebola who dr. brantly treated and who survived. dr. brantly received a transfusion of that boy's blood when he first got sick. dr. brantly and a woman named nancy writebol, they both received initial treatment in high beer ya and then were brought back to the united states for supportive care at emory university in atlanta. both of those americans survived their bouts with ebola. and it felt like a miracle when it happened, but they both survived. >> today is a miraculous day. i'm thrilled to be alive, to be

well and to be reunited with my family. >> dr. kent brantly was the first american to be treated for ebola in this country, but, of course, he was not the last. after he survived his bout with the disease, dr. brantly was asked if he would do for other patients in the united states what that little liberian boy had done for him. would he donate his blood and his blood plasma and give it as a donation to other patients fighting ebola to see if the antibodies in his blood could help them fight off the virus, too. dr. brantly was asked and he said yes. he donated his blood and his blood plasma was used as part of the treatment for dr. rick sacra, also another american doctor who contracted the disease in liberia who was brought back to this country and treated at the nebraska bio containment unit. if it has not happened already they're planning to tran fuse dr. brantly's blood into another

american patient being treated here. into the cameraman ashoka mukpo who is being treated in this country right now. >> when you get an infection, it's a race to your body developing antibodies. it has to develop specific chemicals that will attach to the bacteria, the fungus or the virus and neutralize it. it takes usually 10 to 14 days, sometimes lo s longer for that happen. so we're hoping to take somebody who has gotten through the illness and has plenty of antibodies in his system and use them to kind of jump-start the immune system and hopefully just buy some time for our patient to fight it off himself or to have some of the other treatments help out. >> that's the medical director at that bio containment unit and patient care center in nebraska. honestly, there's not much available to treat people once they're infected with this disease. in terms of the handful of people that have been treated in the country, the first two were

able to get that experimental drug zmapp. as far as we know there's no more of that in the entire world right now. takes a long time to make. there are zero doses left anywhere, at least as far as we know. the massachusetts doctor, dr. sacra, he received a different experimental drug made by a company called techmera, it's called tkm-ebola. the cameraman is being treated by a different drug, one that they pronounce their name chimerix, it's called brincidofovir. the other was thomas eric duncan in dallas. sadly, though, that treatment and supportive care that he received was not enough. thomas eric dungecan died this morning in dallas. he's the first ebola patient in america to have died from this disease. even though this disease is thought of as being ruthlessly fatal, even though responsible

for thousands of deaths abroad, the fact that we neverefore today had somebody die of it who was being treated in this country, it did make it a shock when mr. duncan's death was announced. >> today we're deeply saddened by the death of the patient in dallas despite maximal interventions, we learned today that he passed away. and our thoughts go out to his family, friends. he is a face that we associate now with ebola. >> before this news was announced publicly today, the family of thomas eric duncan was told of his death, told in person by dallas county judge clay jenkins. clay jenkins drove out to house where the family is staying and told them the news himself in person so they would not have to hear about it on the news. thomas eric dungeon died between 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. this morning. once he died that set in motion another first, another test for

the american health care system. because one of the terrible truths about ebola is that after a person has just died from the disease, their body right after death can actually be very, very infectious. i mean, the virus cannot live indefinitely without some live host in which to reproduce, but for a considerable amount of time after someone has died, there's such a high amount of the ebola virus in their dead body that contact with bodily fluids from the corporatise of somebody who has just died can be a risky situation in terms of passing on the virus. sort of counterintuitive but dead bodies aren't usually a very worrisome thing, but when it comes to ebola, that's not the case. so the cdc today reiterated instructions for how to safely handle the bod of somebody who died in ebola. anybody handling the body of somebody who has died of ebola

has to wear personal protective equipment including a head-to-toe scrub suit, a cap, a gown over the suit, eye protection, face mask, shoe covers, double layers of gloves. in addition to all that gear, those personnel then need to be very careful in the way they take that gear off. so any body fluids that came in contact with the outside surfaces of any of that personal protective equipment doesn't inadvertently get touched by the person while they're taking that equipment off. the body itself gets wrapped in a plastic shroud. the body should not be washed even if that's a tradition in the way the body would otherwise be treated. after the body is put in the plastic shroud, it's to be put into a leak-proof plastic bag that zips closed then that plastic bag should then be put into another bag right away. then before the body is moved anywhere, there needs to be surface decontamination of everything the body touched and all of the outside of all of the materials that the body is now

contained in. there's all these very specific instructions about dealing with the corpse in the hospital setting, but then also how the body has to be handled at the mortuary. there's no embalming of the body for somebody who has died of ebola. the double body bags are never to be opened at the mortuary. the only choice in terms of disposal of the body is either to cremate it, to burn it, or to bury it. but it has to be in a hermetically sealed casket. then that finally is the end. all of these sort of protocols are known. these were all prepared. they didn't have to invent them today. but they never had to be put in place in the united states before today. thomas eric duncan's family agreed today that he would be cremated. but even these granular step by step, glove by glove, layer by layer details, this is something new for our country. this has never had to be done in this country before. maybe this will be the only time that we'll have to do it, god willing.

maybe this particular test of the american health care system is over today. i mean, they say in dallas that they're following 48 people who had varying levels of contact with thomas eric dungeon. none have shown any symptoms or signs of being infected. there's no outbreak of ebola in this country. there's only and ever been one patient diagnosed here, that he did not contract the disease here. he contracted it somewhere else. he just happened to fly here in between getting it and starting to get sick from it. this is all we've had to do thus far. i mean, there have been dozens of worried well maybe patients all over the country, people who a fever or traveled to west africa or maybe both. another man turned himself in to health authorities in texas today. he said he'd been on the sheriff's department detail at duncan's apartment in dallas. so that man is being monitored tonight to find out if there's any chance he might have been exposed rather than just being

worried about his exposure. but again, as yet, there's been no other identified case of anybody ever getting ebola in this country from thomas eric duncan or from anybody else. but with thomas eric dungeon dying today, with america's first ebola patient dying today, there's questions about how well we have performed on this test of our country. first of all, let me ask two questions and these are very nitty-gritty but these are real questions. kent brantly got a blood transfusion from an ebola survivor. asho ashoka mukpo is getting a blood transfusion. dr. brantly said that the dallas hospital treating thomas eric dunge duncan and asked him if he'd provide his blood. dr. brantly said yes. he also said they never followed up. he never did it.

he never offered a transfusion to thomas eric duncan the way he had to those other patients. why didn't dallas follow up on that? were these two men not the same blood type so it was incompatible? is it possible that thomas eric duncan didn't get as high a standard of treatment as other patients have gotten in this country? did he get everything that he could have gotten once they knew he was infected? that's an answerable question. it is empirically knowable. why didn't he get a transfusion from a survivor like other patients did? does that make sense? also, and this is another hard question for texas, no other patient treated -- no other patient treated for ebola in this country besides thomas eric duncan has died. is part of the reason he died because his care was delayed? he was initially turned away from care once he had already gotten sick and he was seeking medical help. he started to feel sick on wednesday, the 24th of september.

he sought medical attention in dallas the following day, thursday, the 25th. that hospital sent him home, sent him away while he was sick, then sick at home with no help, no treatment, no supportive care and iv and all that other stuff. he was home on friday and on saturday and getti inting sicke sicker and it wasn't until sunday when he came back to the hospital in an ambulance and they finally readmitted him. those three days that he was symptomatic in the community are part of what worried everybody so much and the risk he might infect somebody else. but those three days were also three days that he wasn't receiving any medical care! he wasn't getting any therapy to combat the ebola virus, he wasn't getting intensive supportive medical care so his immune system could fight off the virus. don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but did that kill him? could he have been saved had he been treated right from the beginning of his symptoms?

we now have had exactly one patient diagnosed with ebola for the first time in this country and he's the one patient treated for ebola in this country who has died. god willing, he'll be the last. but how did we do on this test as a country? how badly did we screw this up? did the way america screwed this up kill that man? and what do we need to learn from how he was treated in order to get it right from here on out? joining us is professor of epidemiology at columbia university. thank you for being here. >> a pleasure to join you. >> did i summarize things in a way that misrepresented the medical truth here? >> no, i think that represents the situation quite well, and the delay is a particular concern. it was a missed opportunity as well. not only could he have been treated earlier, which the earlier the better with any of these things, but also, obviously, he could have been put into isolation before others could be infected.

>> right. >> and that might or might not have saved his life but might have prevented a lot of follow-up that's been done. >> there's been so much focus, not unwarranted focus but so much on whether he could be a vector of infection to others. obviously him being symptomatic in the community was a big concern around that. but we haven't really drilled down because i guess we all hoped he'd survive, we haven't drilled down on how much his own care was compromised by the two or three days he sent not being treated. is there enough sperngs with successful treatment of ebola that we can say that was determinative in terms of the course of his illness? >> no, we can say with any of these things -- and certainly with things like zmapp although that's not what he got, the earlier the better what we know about the progression of the disease. and other diseases, bird flu, avian influenza, the earlier the better. the ones that do die take four or five days to get to treatment. we don't really know what would

have happened. we don't know in the other cases. kent brantly was able to walk out of the ambulance essentially with minimal help. so he must have been in pretty good condition before he arrived at emory. very unlike this patient. >> what about the specific issue about these blood transfusions. it makes sense to me that a person who survived an ebola infection, survived this virus would have antibodies in their system that could potentially jump-start somebody else's immune system. is that essentially a working theory or is there evidence that tells us that that is an effective treatment or can be a helpful treatment? >> we don't have much evidence with ebola, but zmapp is essentially a high tech version of the same thing but the use of convalescent serum, serum from people who recovered putting it into other people to cure or prevent disease has a very long history. even before we knew many of these infections, we knew that you could give serum and treat it and help people get better.

so i think that it could very well make a difference. >> as we see different -- because of the limited availability of the existing experimental treatments, we see at least three different types of treatment have been used in american patients thus far. in two of those courses of drugs we've seen patients survive. in one it's being used right now in a patient fighting for his life, another has died. if you had a choice of the existing experimental is zmapp the one that's most promising? >> that's the one that's had the best results but all the rest have only been used in one or two cases at most. the techmira product is an interesting one but you don't want to subject yourself to an experiment. so i think zmapp is the one with the best record so far. >> we're in this remarkable position where we're all hoping that this will be the last time anybody ever dies with ebola in this country. but the next time we get a

patient, if we do, let us hope that the thomas eric duncan experience means the next person gets treated better than he does and more rapidly. >> i agree. >> dr. stephen morse. today a brand new state just got very unexpectedly competitive. nobody would have thought it was going o be this state. it's not kansas, but a different one. you know.... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it.

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there's been intense and gripping reporting from the border between turkey and syria. word is isis is about to take over towns that are inside syria but they're right on the border with turkey. and there's been this odd insistence by turkey that the united states must stop isis from doing that. now, to be clear, it's their border. the very capable turkish military is right there, literally right there on their border watching it happen from their border. the turkish parliament just voted to allow their military to cross the border and go to fight isis. but instead of doing that turkey is demanding that the americans come do it for them. the turkish prime minister has angrily demanded that vice president biden apologize for some publish remarks last week just how much turkey really wants this fight against isis in syria. go figure. so there's been a lot of

coverage and reporting about the risk to these poor turkish border towns in syria that are under threat from syria and also there's been a lot of coverage of the black is white, up is down, alice in wonderland false diplomatic speak you have to engage in in order to avoid asking the obvious questions about why countries like turkey want the united states to defend them even when they don't want to defend themselves. but here's the thing that has not had a lot of attention over the same time period. on sunday for the first time, when centcom puts out its daily reports on u.s. air strikes againstize in ir izsis and iraq they put these out every day since we began bombing, but on sunday there was something new in the fine print. in these daily reports on what u.s. planes are bombing and hitting we get these anodyne reports on where the bombs go and what the baups destroyed and we get notice of what kinds of

u.s. firepower is being used in the air war now. from last week tuesday, u.s. military forces used attack, fighter and remotely piloted aircraft today to conduct 11 air strikes in iraq. a week ago today u.s. military forces and a partner nation used a mix of fighter and remotely piloted aircraft tuesday and today to conduct five air strike. so some version of the same thing every day from centcom, october 2nd, a mix of fighter, attack, bomber and remotely piloted aircraft. october 3rd, a mix of fighter and remotely piloted aircraft. so sort of been the same thing every day. but then this weekend on sunday we get something new for first time. at first glance it look likes all the poerps they make no notice they're announcing anything different. military air strikes against isis in syria and iraq. but then in the fine print something very new, sunday for first time in iraq u.s. military forces used attack, bomber, fighter and helicopter aircraft. really?

we're using attack helicopters now? really? yes, apparently really. in iraq, look, further down, four strikes northeast of fallujah, one southeast of hit, one strike northeast of sinjar, to conduct these strikes, the u.s. employed attack, bomber, fighter and helicopter aircraft. that's new. here's why that's so important. first of all, it means that our fellow americans, american servicemen and women who are fighting in this war over there, they're involved in a much closer form of combat than we knew they were in before when we knew they were only flying drones and bombers and fighter jets. the pentagon now confirms to us that what they're using are apache attack helicopters. these are attack helicopters that can fire rockets and missiles, they can be mounted with a really big gun but these are aircraft that fly, as they say, relatively low and relatively slow. top speed of less than 200 miles an hour. and they fly nowhere near high enough to avoid anti-aircraft fire the way a lot of our planes

can. now, for comparison purposes, look at this. this is an apache helicopter, a boeing ah-64 helicopter. this is what the pentagon has very quietly admitted we're now putting u.s. troops in in these raids againstiz izsis. i'll put up for comparison a bell 407 and a russian-made mi-35 attack helicopter. i put those up alongside an apache because in the past few days, within the past week, just as the u.s. military has started using apache attack helicopters to attack isis, just in the past few days, isis has shot down those other two kinds of helicopters. flown by the iraqi air force. they shot down a russian-made attack helicopter flown by the iraqis on friday, shot it down with a shoulder-fired missile, then today they used another shoulder-fired missile to shoot down one of these bell 407s. they keep saying that american troops are not in a combat mission.

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so the top democrat in the united states senate is of course democratic senator harry reid of nevada. harry reid maybe more than anybody else, he needs democrats to hold on to the senate so he can stay majority leader, right? so harry reid is calculating and strategic about where democrats should spend their money heading into election day. you can't spend it everywhere, right? who's worth it? which states are worth democrats committing their time and their money less than four weeks before the election? this summer harry reid was asked about whether democrats would invest in trying to win one specific senate race, and he was just brutally blunt about it. he told reporters when he was asked, quote, we are going to lose that race more than likely. that was this summer. so yeah, we're not going there, we're going to lose that race. today all changed in that same senate race. democrats today decided all of a sudden actually they're going to spend seven figures to try to win that race because they think they can win it.

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in the one corner you've got thom tillis, head of the republican legislature in the great state of north carolina and in the other corner you've got kay hagan, incumbent democratic senator running for re-election. it's four weeks out from the midterm election. it's the big debate. thom tillis is loaded for bear. he's got his line of attack on kay hagan all ready to go. he knows exactly how he's going to hit her on this debate. he's got the thing memorized, he's so excited, he knows this will be great. the time comes, he's ready, he's set. and he goes splat. he was so excited. you could tell he worked on this for so long, practicing and practicing and practicing it. and then when it came time, he just totally blew it. >> for the last year you've sat on the foreign affairs committee and you've missed half the

meetings. can you explain to me what other commitments you had that you thought were more important than sitting in the committee? mainly interested in where were you and why were other commitments more important than sitting in that foreign affairs committee? >> well, let me clarify something, george. i'm not on the foreign affairs committee. i served on the armed services commit pep and speaker tillis. >> i stand corrected. may i ask were you not present for 50% of those meetings? >> george, i'm on the armed services committee. >> memorized it. he thought he had it just right. he thought it was the greatest debate point of all time. and then just -- yeah. >> why were other commitments more important than sitting in that foreign affairs committee? >> well, let me clarify something, george, i'm not on the foreign affairs committee. i serve on the armed services committee. >> oh, god, i watched that about 40 times today. even the best laid plans, you never really know how they're going to play out until you

actually try to play them out in the real campaign, right? latest polling on that senate race in north carolina has kay hagan with a slim two-point lead over thom tillis. but north carolina right now is also a reminder of the broader point that things just don't always go as expected. as republicans are trying to pick up six seats in order to take control of the senate, there are, of course, all these expected battlegrounds, right? places like north carolina and louisiana and alaska and arkansas, these democratic incumbents in red states who are trying to hold on to their seats despite prevailing political winds against them in their states. but you know, alongside that dog bites man story, about who's going to win the elections and control the senate this year and where the battlefields are, alongside that very expected stuff, there keep popping up these totally unexpected man bites dog stories. like kansas where republicans never thought they'd have to lift a finger to keep old republican pat roberts in his seat. but now with the democrat

dropping out to clear the field for an independent challenger to pat roberts, that independent candidate so far is cleaning pat roberts' clock in the polls. if the election was held right now there's a really good chance that the republican party would lose one of their incumbent republican senate seats in kansas, which was just unthinkable until it happened. now today the new unthingable. one of these states that has not been seen as a contest, that everybody was figuring was a given for the republicans is the senate seat that's being given up by retiring senator tim johnson in south dakota. he's a democrat but he's retiring. republicans don't already hold the seat there like they do in kansas. but like kansas, nobody thought the republican party would basically have to lift a finger in order to get that seat, in order to elect republican mike rounds, former republican governor to that seat. he got the coronation from the republican party, he was expected to ascend to that senate seat without so much as fluttering his wings.

well now he is fluttering. the democratic party today just announced that, hey, south dakota is hereby a contested race. south dakota. democrats all of a sudden think they can maybe win in south dakota. today the democratic party announced a million dollar ad buy there. and in south dakota, a million dollars goes a long way. what just happened in south dakota of all places to put that race on the map for the democrats? and how much more scrambled is the map going to get over the next 27 very confusing days? woo-hoo. joining us is the great steve carnacy. thank you for being here. >> sure. >> what happened in south dakota to put it on the map? >> the public poll came out. it's a three-way race. so mike rounds, 35%. there's the wild card larry pressler. a three-term republican senator. he lost the seat to tim johnson in 1996.

he's now running again as an independent. 32 and rick weiland at 28. democrats looked at this and took their own polling and they looked at this and said, everybody, our party, the republicans, everybody in politics has been assuming mike rounds, south dakota, republican, 2014, he's going to win with ease. this is real. we're a month out and this is a competitive race. where not just potentially the democrat rick weiland has a chance but larry pressler, the independent, "a," has a chance to win this, and, "b," if he wins this would caucus with democrats in the senate. pressler has made -- we had him on our show, he's made no public assurance of that. he's drifted away from the republican party. he endorsed barack obama in 2008 and '12. the money the democrats put up today this is not money for rick weiland. these are not ads that will be advocating rick weiland for the senate. these are ads aimed at mike rounds. the calculation is maybe it helps weiland but there's a lot of attention between weiland -- as you said in your setup, harry

reid did not want rick weiland. reid wanted a different candidate. when that candidate didn't run reid shut down national support for rick weiland. they thing a guy like pressler, with his profile, story, former republican, can win in south dakota this year. so this is not pro-weiland, this is anti-rounds money. >> and there's no possibility in this case as i understand it in south dakota that something could happen like kansas where either rick weiland or larry pressler could drop off the race that's giving them a clean shot at rounds. >> this is what republicans are counting on and the nightmare scenario for democrats. that's how marco rubio got to the house in florida. bill clinton a week before that election in 2010 tried to get kendrick meek to endorse him. almost got him to do it.

you've got weiland the democrat and pressler the independent. they both believe they can win. they both believe the other guy should get out. >> could either one of them get out? could they get their name off the ballot? if you couldn't get your name off the ballot, i'm out, don't vote for me. >> this new poll, they tested a pressler/rounds one on one. pressler/rounds one on one, pressler's up 15 points. >> in this new poll. it's been tested in a couple other polls that show weiland and pressler pulling even. when they put the two together, it's 54-39 pressler. one poll. >> i said it's a million dollars from the democratic party and that might not sound like a lot but a million dollars goes a long way in south dakota. there's another million dollars that's just come into the race. a stanford professor who has decided to make it his life's work to crusade against big money in politics to get the whole super pac system dissolved, to crusade against citizens united in every way he can, he's got the pac to end all

pacs. he's running essentially as an anti-corruption guy. he wants rounds to lose this seat. i'm not sure he cares between weiland and pressler as i can tell, but he just announced his pack is going in with a million dollars into this race as well. >> that's more pro-weiland in nature. this is how super pacs can complicate things. the ideal here for democrats would be you got a million bucks to take down mike rounds. you have one million that promotes weiland the democrat and this money helps him on two fronts. the nightmare scenario is the anti-rounds money helps pressler and that pro-weiland money helps pressler. so it's a real complicated situation. hard again to see. rick weiland has run, you look in kansas, chad taylor, the democrat there had no support. he was sort of out on his own and democrats were able to -- >> weiland's running.

>> weiland is a guy who is close to tam daschle. he's been in south dakota politics for a long time. ran for congress ten years ago. he's waited a long time to run on his own in south dakota. they can't say to him what they said to chad taylor, you got a future, get out and we'll help you in future. the future is now for rick weiland. i'm never getting closer so i'm staying with it. >> weiland and pressler, you guys should talk. >> we're inviting them to come up this weekend. tell them to say yes to that. >> i would sleep in my office and be here in the morning. >> up with steve kornacki.

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we've got a fun debunktion junction in a minute but here's a taste of what's to come. this is amazing. every state gets two senators no matter how big or how small the state is, right? but some states like vermont and wyoming and montana, those states have such a small population that even though they've got two senators they've only one got one of the house for the whole state. there's seven of those states altogether. north dakota is one of those states. they've only got one member of the house. north dakota's sole member of congress is a guy named kevin,

kevin cramer. he's a republican. now for the first time he's running for re-election. if you know only one thing about kevin, if you know only one other thing about him, you probably have heard about kevin cramer is that in his first campaign for re-election, kevin cramer has screwed up really bad. he screwed up in a way that makes people mad at you all across the country even if they've never heard of you before. so that leads us towards debunktion junction. is it true or it is false that republican congressman kevin cramer has had to pull his big re-election campaign ad this month because he shot the ad in a veterans cemetery? this is the ad. kevin cramer standing in front of the gravs of deceased service members implicitly drafting them in death as supporters of his

campaign. yes, somebody really did this and, no, he did not ask permission of the cemetery and the cemetery says they would have never allowed it had they known what he was doing and no, he did not ask permission of the families of the people whose graves he used as a campaign backdrop. kevin cramer really did go shoot a campaign ad in a veterans cemete cemetery, which you might have heard about since in an era of beyond the pale dis gusting politics, this leads us to the question of what happened when kevin cramer became famous nationwide for doing something this volts. did he pull the ad? i ask because he said he was pulling the ad. that naturally led to the impression that he was pulling the ad. but there remains the actual question about this ad shot without permission in a veterans cemetery. true or false that congressman kevin cramer pulled the ad like

he said he did in [ buzzer ] he did not actually pull the ad. he did tell the "bismarck tribune" that he decided to no ad but he left it up online. still encouraging people to watch it online. he says, watch the ad in its entirety. it's a beautiful ad. congressman kevin cramer, illegally shoots a campaign ad, veterans' group and the cemetery itself are outraged. he says he has taken the ad down and he has not. he still loves it. screw the veterans. they look great in my campaign ad. congressman kevin cramer justifiably now nationally famous for this one almost unbelievable thing. i know, i couldn't even wait for debunction junction to do that but the rest of debunction junction is next. stay with us.

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all right. we have some great debunktion junction. the deficit, the favorite criticism of president obama and used to march out and tell us how the deficit was skyrocketing or soaring or exploding, the deficit was killing jobs, that talking point is still a favorite among republicans, this is from the idaho senate debate. james rish of idaho. >> the biggest challenge facing idaho families and for that matter america is something that really every american should be focused on, that is the national debt and the deficit spending. when you talk about cutting back in washington, d.c., they look at you like you got three heads. i'm not going to give up. i'm going to keep pushing it.

this nonsense has got to stop. >> it's got to stop. the deficit is the biggest challenge facing idaho. it is out of control. republican senator james risch at a senate debate to the same point so you know it's not just him, a fund-raising e-mail that went around from dick cheney, my friend, he e-mails me all the time, this time he's warning about the exploding government and exploding spending, the explosion of spending, skyrocketing deficit. i know they love that line and always have but is it true or is it false that the federal government deficit is spiraling out of control. it is a noose around the nation's economy. still a great talking point, though. the congressional budget office, the official arbiter released their report on the deficit today showing that in 2014 the deficit decreased again as it has been doing for years now by a lot, this year's deficit is the smallest deficit we've had

since 2008. if you think those raw numbers are voodoo and look at them relative to the size of the economy, over the last 40 years our deficit this year is actually below the average for the last 40 years. so, no. the deficit is not growing. the deficit is shrinking very fast and in historical terms it's very small but don't let that get in the way of your bumper sticker. and i'm so excited for this one. this is republican congressman duncan hunter of the republican leading lights in the house of representatives when it comes to national security, that's why it came as a bombshell when he went on fox news and whipped this out completely out of nowhere. >> i know at least ten isis fighters have been caught coming across the mexican border in texas. >> how do you know that? >> because i've asked the border patrol, greta. >> the border patrol let isis

members come across the border? >> no, they caught them at the border. therefore, we know that isis is coming across the border. if they catch five or ten of them then you know there will be dozens more that did not get caught. >> greta is like, what? republican congressman duncan hunter, isis is in this country. duncan hunter says the united states border patrol has captured at least ten isis fighters who have come across the southern border into the united states. wow! is that true or is that false? false. false. false. false. you would have heard about it. we reached out to the department of homeland security today, which oversees the border patrol and told us unequivocally that, no, contrary to what he says, they have not captured any members of isis coming across the border. they told us "the suggestion that individuals who have ties to isis have been app henced at the southwest border is false and not supported by any

credible intelligence or the facts on the ground. dhs continues to have no credible intelligence to suggest terrorist organizations are plotting to cross the southwest border." end of story, right? wrong. the congressman is not backing down standing by the story. we reached out to his office. they initially pointed us to a misspelled blog post which they says confirms the story. four isis terrorists arrested in texas. that was their first response to this to point to the conservative blog as their evidence. that left us with roughly a zillion and four questions, for example, homeland security says your claim is false. is your source in a position to know? when the congressman found out about the ten isis fighters on the border, did he tell the fbi about this? or anybody else? does the congressman know where these isis fighters are now being held? are they being interrogated? are you just going to talk about it on fox and that's it?

we took those questions to the congressman's office. what we got back was a little amazing. they wanted to clarify when the congressman said ten isis fighters, we got this, "more accurate i think to refer to them as foreign nationals with i.s. associations." oh, so maybe that members of isis but they're isis-ee, isisish and definitely foreign. as to who told them about these characters and whether he informed the fbi about it, his office says "it's a high level source, someone we've come to know and trust over the years. we have sources within the department of homeland security. no need to inform the person that's informing us." again, just for the record, homeland security says all of this is nuts, all of this is bull. in other words, they say it's categorically false not supported by any credible intelligence or facts on the

ground. his response "of course, dhs is right. they're always right, aren't they?" of course, they would say that maybe they're sort of isis-y too. the despite the fact they have given no evidence to substantiate his office is standing by it. they say they may release more information tomorrow. probably on fox. we wait with bated breath. now it's time for "last word with lawrence o'donnell". good evening, lawrence. >> well, it all depends on how you define he had, i guess. >> and the border and isis. >> and the border. >> and "is," yes. >> thanks a lot. a new polling analysis says that control of the senate will not be decided on election night. and we have an nbc news exclusive investigation tonight, very important, about artificial turf on sports fields all around the country. is it