the nfl trusts duracell quantum to power their game day communication. abort! abort! he's keeping it! duracell quantum. lasts up to 35% longer than the competition. this morning, my question, what happens to a nation when the police make us feel afraid? plus this week in voter expression suppression, supreme court edition. and a doctor says living to 75 is all he wants. first there's breaking news on ebola in the united states. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry and we begin with breaking news. the second case of ebola diagnosed here in the united states. this time a healthcare worker in dallas, texas has tested positive for the virus.

the texas health presbyterian hospital worker reported a fever late friday and was diagnosed with the preliminary test. if those test results are confirmed that cdc headquarters in atlanta, it will be the first time ebola has been transmitted person to person in the united states. we know this infected person cared for thomas eric duncan, the first person to die of ebola here in this country. hospital officials say this worker had been under the cdc's self-monitoring regime due to duncan's involvement in his care. >> the entire process from the patient's self-monitoring to admission to isolation took less than 90 minutes. the patient's condition is stable. a close contact has also been proactively placed in isolation. >> thomas duncan died wednesday after he was readmitted for treatment. we know he was initially sent home despite having a 103-degree fever. we go now to dallas.

sarah, do we know when this infected hospital worker came into contact with mr. duncan? >> reporter: we just learned a little bit more about that time line, melissa, during a press conference officials held. this was during the second visit that this contact occurred, that is to say september 28th, not september 26th when duncan was initially sent home but rather when he returned via dlaambulan is when this hospital worker had some type of contact with him. officials say that this worker was not considered in the high risk pool and they were wearing full protective gear whenever they treated mr. duncan. now, this healthcare worker's fever was initially reported on friday during that self-monitoring procedure and the preliminary test results came back from austin late saturday night. workers have been going all through the night to try to figure out where this contact occurred and decome tam nate this person's apartment.

officials are also working to identify anyone this person may have exposed to the virus. officials stressing today that the only type of person who is contagious is somebody that is actively showing symptoms, that is to say you can't catch ebola from someone who is not activ y ly displaying their symptoms. this person was wearing full protective gear when thomas duncan returned here on september 28th. the hospital has stopped admitting patients to the er as they focus on the second case of ebola here in dallas. >> thank you so much. all eyes on ebola in dallas. there is some good news we can bring you this morning regarding the condition of another patient with ebola. the father of nbc news freelance cameraman reports his son has been steadily improving over the weekend and is currently symptom-free. he's now asking for food, well

on his way to a full recovery at a nebraska hospital. even as we welcome that good news, it doesn't mitigate the ongoing epidemic ravaging west fri africa and sparking concern over the globe. kennedy airport became one of five airports to screen passengers from ebola. passengers from guinea, liberia and sierra leone will be tested. about 150 people enter the u.s. every day from those three countries, most of them coming through jfk and four other airports which will begin these enhanced screenings later this week. the u.s. has a long history dating back to 1878 of using government authority to isolate individuals in order to control the spread of infectious disease. when severe acute respiratory

syndrome caused concern, congress tightened procedures. even though ebola can't be transmitted through the air, it has not stopped state and local politicians from pushing for stronger border security. in a debate last week with a north carolina senator, a republican candidate said we should seal the border. >> i called for a ban. it takes courage to say, folks, we've got to get this situation convince us that people are not going to threaten our safety and security. >> bobby jindal among others have either called for or suggested travel restrictions. secretary of state john kerry said keeping the borders open is the only way to fight the

disease with success. a sentiment echoed by tom freeden. >> as long as it's in africa we're potentially at risk. even if we tried to close the border, it wouldn't work. people have a right to return. people transiting through could come in, and it would backfire. by isolating these countries, it will make it harder to help them, spread more there and we'll be more likely to be exposed here. >> this emphasis on securing america's borders as a response to a global crises is echoed in the way many are fighting isis. it's become a talking point on the republican trail. this week border security was discussed at a town hall. suggesting isis fighters were collaborating with drug cartels in mexico. saying, they can attack us in

places like right here in arkansas. two other congressman claimed suspected isis fighters did cross in the u.s. from our southern border with mexico, a claim homeland security secretary johnson shot down, categorically false, his department says. watch this portion of a campaign ad for georgia senate candidate david perdue. >> terrorism experts say our border breakdown could provide an entry for groups like isis. >> if a country can't protect its borders, what can it protect? >> a secure border is essential to national security, but the focus on keeping the bad guys out can distract us from solutions that address the root causes of these global crises. even in the haze of war fatigue, even when resources for managing domestic concerns are limited. even then a serious global leader must do more than build moats and walls and hope that we can hide safely behind them.

securing our border may require reinforcing public health systems in nations across on as ocean and voices on the table more than boots on the ground. joining me hillary man lef rhett. she served on the national security council in the clinton and bush administrations and the author of going to tehran. nice to see you this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> let's start with the simplest question. is it possible to secure our borders against a global crises? >> i don't think it is. unfortunately, i think it's potentially dangerously delusional. the more that we think that we can, the less we're going to focus on what needs to be done in terms of ebola stemming the epidemic, stopping the epidemic in africa. it's not just a question of any particular person from liberia

or guinea getting on a plane and maybe getting off in the washington area or dallas. it's about global supply chains, the probability that this disease may spread even throughout africa to countries like an gol la, critical for oil, congo. these international supply chains will be disrupted by even the disease spreading in africa. in terms of isis, our focus on border security and bombing even more muslim targets in the middle east is a tried and true recipe to increase the threat from jihady terrorists here in the united states and in the middle east. >> this point that you're making, obviously ebola and isis are two very different kinds of global problems but that feeling that we can sort of either build

a wall that will keep the bad things out or we can attack. particularly when a community is in fear, afraid of terrorism or infectious disease, how do we convince folks that actually staying off is the more reasonable policy? >> it is a tough one but we could have more coverage for example on what cuba is doing, a country we have long demonized. cuba has sent hundreds of doctors to sierra leone, to liberia to try to stem this crises. if you look at the footage you can see cuban doctors getting off the planes, carrying crates of medicine and medical equipment to take into the inflicted zone. that's what's needed inside africa and liberia and guinea and sierra lee loan are doctors. if cuba, a country that has less than five percent of our population, if they can send

hundreds of doctors, why are we saying there's not much we can do but secure or borders. we can do more, we need to do more to protect ourselves and we can look at countries like cuba that we otherwise demonize because of our domestic politics and see something that's going on there that's constructive. >> and yet i suspect that the obama administration might argue that we are doing more than anyone else. i want to pause for a moment and listen to susan rice basically saying we're doing a lot. let's listen to her on meet the press. >> this is going to take all hands on deck because the goal has to be to contain this epidemic in the three countries that we've seen in west africa to try to prevent spread and provide the appropriate care to those that need it. >> is it possible that the real issue here is simply the rest of the world is not doing enough both in the context of ebola but also potentially on the question of containing isis? >> certainly the world is not doing enough but neither are we.

our focus as typical is on the military and building facilities. well, facilities aren't going to cut it if they don't have doctors and nurses. that's what the chronic need is. we can't just send our military in to solve this problem as we've tried to do in the middle east where it also hasn't worked. we actually need people on the ground, doctors, nurses and we need to lead a global effort in that regard as we do in the middle east. it's not something where as john stewart says we can wave a magic bomb. we actually need conflict resolution, diplomats on the ground working with communities that can contain the threat there of isis. we can't just put a military solution or pretend that we live in fortress america. that's not going to cut it in a globalized economy and a globalized world. >> it's always a pleasure to speak with you and i look forward to having you back here at the table. still to come this morning, everything from voting rights to

reproductive rights in the handled of the supreme court. up next i'm going to bring in a medical doctor to help us understand what is happening with ebola in the u.s. stay with us. fe on your terms? i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today.

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they all lost their lives because of preventable medical errors, now the third leading cause of death. only heart disease and cancer take more lives. proposition 46 will save lives with drug and alcohol testing to make sure impaired doctors don't treat someone you love. safeguards against prescription drug abuse. and holds the medical industry accountable for mistakes. i'm barbara boxer. let's save lives. vote yes on 46.

we have more now on this morning's breaking news. a healthcare worker in dallas is the second person in the u.s. to test positive for ebola. the person helped care for thomas eric duncan who on wednesday became the first ebola patient to die in the united states. the healthcare workers who is not being identified at this time is listed in stable condition and is now in isolation. if confirmed, this would be the first case of ebola contracted or transmitted here in the united states. joining me now from new orleans, dr. corey abare, assistant professor at lsu and tulane

medical center as well as ceo of community health tv. thank you for coming back again. yesterday you had talked me down a little bit from my anxiety about the question of transmission and then we wake up this morning to this news. does this change anything that you told us yesterday about the likelihood of transmission and spreading here in the u.s.? >> actually what it does is augment what i said because what did i say? we said the only way that this could spread is a breakdown of communication or not following the protocols. we know that this hospital is notorious for not following protocols because that's how we got in this situation in the first place. looking at the press release from the hospital this morning they said very specifically this person was taking care of this patient when he came back to the hospital the second time. when he came back to the hospital the second time, they still didn't know he had ebola. let's be very clear about this.

when you have on the gown, the mask, the gloves, the suit, face shields, you can get nothing. now, what we probably think has happened is that when you "take off!" that outfit, take off that gown you have to be more careful to not touch your eyes and someone else. they said this person was not directly related with the care of that patient so she may have been haphazard in taking this thing off when she didn't follow the protocol of the buddy system to have someone watch her take it off. >> since we don't know yet the identity of the healthcare worker, we may be presuming given what we know about the structure of the healthcare system that this is likely a woman but we don't know that this is the identity of the healthcare worker. i want to play for a moment some sound from the press conference that you're talking about this morning and then i've got a question for you so if i am this morning a registered nurse or a

p.a. i might be thinking about this. this is daniel varga in the press conference out of dallas. >> this individual was following full cdc precautions, so gown, glove, mask and shield. >> if i hear dr. vargas say that and i am a p.a. who has to report to work this morning, should i have reason to believe that the cdc guidelines are insufficient? >> i think we would have reason to believe that maybe there was a hole in the gun. the reas we have the best group working on this, doctors without borders. if there was a breakdown in the protocol, we would have doctors without borders having ebola as well and we don't. when you following it properly and don't make a mistake, then you don't get ebola. i have to be very clear about this because to error is human.

people make mistakes. if we're not used to doing something every day in a symptomatic way, then you have errors in how you handle that. and so i feel very comfortable still saying that if you have the appropriate attire on and the appropriate gear, then the odds of you catching any of this are pretty much zero, unless you take it off in the way that you're not supposed to take it off and recontaminate yourself or others. it's not outside of the realm of reality to understand that if you don't do this every day, then you can make a mistake. we all make them. it's just that this is not a dress rehearsal. this is real life and we can no longer afford to make mistakes when it comes to this virus. >> thank you for joining us this morning. coming up, the right to vote, fair housing, reproductive health, all of that is in the hands of the supreme court, the john roberts supreme court. om a, they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here

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ladies and gentlemen, the supreme court is back in session. you think that the justices might take it easy this term after granting corporations religious freedom last term and gutting the voting rights act the term before that and debilitating the affordable care act's medicaid expansion the term before that, but the justices have given themselves a full plate and starting with voting rights. the supreme court has already issued orders that could change the game in three states. in ohio, the court handed down an order that eliminated an entire week of early voting during which voters could register and vote at the same time. the order also eliminated additional evening hours for early voting. according to the aclu in 2012 157,000 people voted during the times that have now been cut, score one for voter oppression, sorry, suppression. then on wednesday the supreme court ordered north carolina's voter restrictions to go into

effect for the midterms, the court blocked a lower court order that would have allowed voters in north carolina to register at the same time they vote this year. they also blocked north carolina from counting the ballets of those who vote in the wrong precinct. more than 20,000 took advantage of same day voter. then on thursday the supreme court turned its attention to wisconsin and the strict voter identification requirement there. so the rights group estimates that the law could disenfranchise up to 300,000 registered voters who lack the proper i.d. every vote counts frankly at this point. i've resigned myself to the court making it a three-peat in allowing the i.d. law to take hold. but the supreme court can sometimes surprise us and on thursday the court blocked the voter i.d. law temporarily, effectively stopping it from

going into effect this year. so on the boards, one for voter rights. but this fight is far from over. none of these orders were decisions on the merits of voter restrictions. the court did not articulate a reason for allowing early voter cuts but disallowing voter i.d. these are just emergency orders blocking or allowing these for now. the supreme court can get a chance to decide whether or not another restriction is in effect this year. so what does all of this mean for the future of voting and for the mid-term elections this month. joining me now, judy brown and yoyo showman, professor of law at the university of school of law and a blogger at the "washington post." and caroline fredrikson. so nice to have you all here.

start by helping us understand how this is different from the court having ruled on these questions. >> so the court is basically telling the apellet courts to chill. on all three they basically blocked what a court of appeals was doing without telling us quite why. two different theories. one, voter i.d. laws are particularly heinous and dangerous and so maybe that's what they think. if that's the theory, then maybe actually in texas they will take the case and affirm perhaps what the lower court said, which is that these voter i.d. bans are problematic. the alternative is they're telling the courts don't get involved at the last minute and change all the rules right before an election. that's going to be confusing to people. >> it could be about a

relationship of the courts or on the merits. let me go to voter i.d. laws being particularly heinous. we saw a nonpartisan government report that suggests that there could be a 24th amendment question here, in other words, that the cost of voter i.d.s basically constitute a poll tax. the go didn't make that case but they did make a case about how disenfranchising they could be. according to this report, the cost of a voter i.d. includes a driver's license that could be $14.50 to $58.50 to get and in order to get a birth certificate it could cost $7 to $25. >> it's so nice to have the gao tell us what we've always said and that we argued in wisconsin. we argued that. in fact, we have in the texas case that just came down, the court actually saying that it is a poll tax. in fact, also in the dissent in

our wisconsin case judge posner said the came thing. i think we're going to see voter i.d. back in the supreme court, that what we're going to have is a better record than what we had in the indiana case that said that it was okay. but also, because those cases, the cases that we've brought like wisconsin and texas which the nacp legal defense fund is involved in are also about the voting rights act. so we have a better record and we have judge posner saying that the fraud that wisconsin put forward was a little goofy and paranoid. so there are questions being raised about voter i.d. that are going to change what happened in the supreme court. >> you just brought up the -- when we had the section five so basically when we had clearance so i guess part of what i want to ask about, if what the court is saying is don't make changes this close to an election, you

courts don't make changes this close to an election over and above a legislative body but had they not removed the formula that allowed for preclearance, then wouldn't these laws have never been allowed, at least in some of the states, at least in inco north carolina. >> at least in north carolina. unfortunately, the other laws, at least in wisconsin, would have gone forward. happily because of the work that the advancement project did with the other groups that were involved, they put together an amazing case. they gathered the data. but you have to use section two now. instead of having the plea clearance formula, the model where you could actually block laws in advance and therefore not have to deal with voters not being able to vote, now it's an ex-post situation so not only are you coming late to the game to try to desperately stop the changes before an election happens so that people who want to vote can actually exercise that right, but it's very costly and data intensive.

i know that judge edelman in wisconsin wrote a very, very thorough decision based on the data that he got because the litigation and the trial put all this evidence in front of him that made it very clear that the photo identification requirement was so strict that it was going to be cost prohibitive for a significant percentage of voters. >> and with a clear bias -- it's not just a random draw from the box. it feels to me then like because the court isn't articulating something yet, they quite likely will, but we are stuck in this question of whether or not we ought to error on the side of ensuring greater access or error on the side of protecting against fraud. presuming there's some friction in the system, and yet there's so little evidence of fraud and

so much evidence that these are expressive efforts that the court thinks that fraud would be the thing on which we should error. >> i think the evidence of in person voter fraud is extremely weak, at least in modern america. maybe 100 years ago it may be a different story. i think the concern that many republicans put forward, i think it's overblown. on the other hand i think there's somewhat of an overblown concern sometimes on the other side in that there's large variation and in many of them it isn't that hard to get the i.d. that is required. the wisconsin case may be different. >> and pennsylvania. >> and i hear that sometimes from folks, it's not that hard, but i guess i'm wondering, shouldn't a democracy of the question of our institutions having value and being the voice

of the people rest primarily on the capacity of those people to hold those institutions accountable through elections. why would we want to make it at all hard? >> if you're asking if i would vote for these laws if i was in the state legislature i probably wouldn't. i don't think there's a good policy reason for most of these laws. the question is should a court strike them down. whether a court should strike them down or not depends on how onerous it is and also what the motivation is behind the laws. >> you have five constitutional amendments -- >> you brought us to a fundamental question that people have, so hold with me. we are just getting started with our panel. first as we go out, comedian louis black sums up some of our feelings on voter suppression in the new video for the aclu.

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it's what you do. this was a good idea. shhhh. be quiet. i'm being quiet. you're breathing on me! if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. head for the cemetery! this term the supreme court will consider a case that could determine the future of the fair housing act, the landmark civil rights legislation that prohibits racial discrimination in housing. in this case, housing advocates in dallas claim that the state of texas is using tax credits to concentrate low income housing in minority neighborhoods. they argue that this leaves entire areas of the city, mostly white areas, unaffordable for low income people who are disproportionately black and latino. therefore the state of texas is, quote, perpetuating residential segregation. that's precisely what the fair housing act was meant to combat.

the supreme court will consider, is that enough to prove discrimination. i wanted to let you finish your thought around the voting issue here. >> there are five constitutional amendments that speak of the right to vote, the 14th amendment section two, the 15th amendment, the 19th, the 24th, 26th. if courts should be doing anything, it is enforcing this. the fair housing act that you mentioned came out of the '60s so did the anti-poll tax amendment and if you have to pay a cent for your i.d., your birth certificate or your driver's license, the poll tax that were prohibited in some states were $1.50 but it's a principle that everyone has a right to vote. if you want to have photo i.d., here's a thought, let them take a picture of me. you see in the streets people taking pictures of cops. they can take a picture of me.

i can sign my name and say here's where i live and that should be a provisional ballot that will count. >> that's actually why they passed these laws in the first place. so what you just said interestingly brings us into that housing question. the reason they passed them, a presumption about an underlying political motivation or choices for the purposes of passing policy. this is really at the core of this impact argument. so what we currently know is that the basic stand right now is a disprit impact, all you have to show is that there is a differential and scrdiscriminat in fact. what happens if the court shows that you have to show intent when it comes to a housing policy in order to strike it down? >> it makes the burden so extremely high that the fair

housing act is basically rendered useless as you said. it was designed for and meant to combat discrimination in housing. it's very, very rare that an elected official sends an e-mail, although apparently in texas they did this with the issues of redistributing, where they send an e-mail saying we want to make sure that no blacks and latinos live in this neighborhood and let's make sure that the vouchers only go into neighborhoods where they already live. that doesn't exist or is very hard to come by and it makes it so difficult to make the case that you will never be able to or very rarely be able to demonstrate that you have the requisite intentional discrimination to win the case. >> this is important, especially in mortgage lending cases. it was important to be able to look at the policies across the board, see what the outcomes were, and then the bank had an opportunity to say, you know what, there was no less

discriminatory alternative, this is our policy, et cetera. that's why this is important for us to be able to prove discrimination without the smoking gun. >> we were looking at the this 2008 crises, bank of america paid a $335 million settlement. countrywide and wells fargo, $175 million. on subprime loans, pnc, $35 million. this is meaningful remuneration from banks around these questions. >> two points on this. one is with respect to proving intent when we're talking about a large organization like a legislature or big corporation or the like, if they have an intent of it's racial or ethnic in nature, it's not going to be that easy to hide an organization that large. there are many cases where it can be found. secondly, if we are going to adopt this rule that's being advocated, in a highly diverse

society it's not just black and white. it's latino, asian american, almost any housing policy you adopt, whether public or private, is going to have a differential effect on some groups as opposed to others. >> if you're about equal opportunity, why would you put in place policies that have an adverse impact on particular groups? that's why we have it. >> the point that you make is important that it's not just about black and white, absolutely. it's also just not about housing. this is about lgbt, people with disabilities, single moms with children. all of that is covered, at least lgbt under some aspects of the fair housing act but as you say it's now the policy and there's the chevron difference that given that this is now policy should, in fact the court -- >> melissa, the courts that have ruled on this have been uniform in agreeing that disprit impact

applies. >> for years. so to suggest that this is a change -- >> and it's not just housing because if you have integrated neighborhoods you're more likely to have integraded schools. let's go back to voting. when people are actually segregated in housing, you can have some voting districts with really long lines and other voting districts with really short lines and actually facilitating voting discrimination. >> housing is everything. housing is voting, environment, education. up next we have more on the supreme court but not this supreme court. a case from 70 years ago to this day. [ narrator ] mama sherman and the legion of super fans. no sign of him yet. keep looking. [ narrator ] their mission: to get richard sherman his campbell's chunky soup. hi, baby! hi, mama! take us home! wow! it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. beer... cheese... beef... bacon... ♪ i love it.

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cvs health. because health is everything. on this day in 1944, the u.s. supreme court heard arguments in a landmark case involving a shameful chapter in american history. shortly after the bombing of the pearl harbor, president

roosevelt mandated that anyone of japanese descent be moved from the west coast. more than 110,000 people were forced into internment camps. but some refused, including a young man named fred. an american born citizen of japanese descent who was arrested in california and convicted of violating military orders. at the urging of the aclu he became the test case to challenge the constitutionality of the internment camps. in a 6-3 vote the supreme court justices upheld the conviction. writing for the majority, justice hugo black argued that pressing public necessity may sometimes justify the existence of such restrictions. nearly 40 years later after documents were uncovered proving that agencies knew japanese americans were not a threat during world world two, his

convictions was final overtuned. he continued to advocate on behalf of helps, helps to secure on official apology from the u.s. government and rep ragss of the survivors of internment camps. in 1998 president clinton awarded him the presidential medal of freedom. >> in the long history of our country's constant search for justice, some names of ordinary citizens stand for millions of souls. plessy, brown, parks. so that distinguished list today we add the name of fred koramatzu. >> one of the extraordinary honors for a man whose plays in history was solidified before the supreme court on this day, october 12th, 1944. more on today's supreme court when we come back. onths old.

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last monday the supreme court did something on same sex marriage that almost no one expected, nothing. the supreme court announced that it would not review any of the seven same sex marriage cases before it and set off a wave of celebrations. in the six days since, same sex marriage has become legal in ten states -- idaho, north carolina, nevada, wisconsin, oklahoma, utah. is it finally over? are we simply a marriage equality nation? is it over? >> i think so. >> i'm sorry, i'm very excited. >> i have to say, i don't see how the supreme court can overturn this at this point. millions and millions of people are going to be married. all of a sudden those marriages are going to be declared

invalid? >> some of the audience will remember that amazing moment when the wall came down. there was a time in which people are trapped and then all of a sudden -- and it was not quite predicted or anticipated freedom. women suffrage, in 1909 only two percent of americans voted equally, black, only two percent of america's blacks voted in 1860. everyone is 1970. we have witnessed a revolution i think about the moment where dr. king is going to meet with the city leaders and that is the day when they desegregate the buses and he's thinking what are we going to do and then it's just over. there's marriage equality in utah! >> go figure. i think we have to understand that the court follows the

people and the context and the time. >> does it really? >> sometimes. >> i think it catches up. i think there are times when it has to. the civil rights movement created that change. it wasn't just like the court decided, yes, we're going to do the right thing. it was because there was a movement that was pushing. i think that what the lgbt community has done has created an opening. and we can't turn back. >> i agree certainly this has been a very rapid change, more rapid than i expected. i said about a year ago that within five or ten years maybe we'll have the supreme court make a decision on this. at the same time, in many of these states, the courts have made a difference because many of these states would have taken a lot longer to get there on their own than with judicial intervention. i think also there is still the big remaining question if you believe as i think i do that in the next few years we get a supreme court decision striking

down laws banning same sex marriage, there's about five ways the supreme court could rationalize that decision in which way it chooses could make a big difference with respect to other issues in the future. >> so why then -- if they provide a rationale then all of a sudden that changes a set of precedence for a number of cases that might be unrelated or unforeseeable for us. >> i think there could be any number of reasons. i think ruth bader ginsburg is on the record that moving slow is better, letting things play out. i think there were probably four justices who really didn't want to see the supreme court put their blessing on these marriages going forward. but i was going to say, i think this is a very interesting sort of connection back to the fair housing discussion because one of the things that i think is very different about the gay and lesbian community is that they're disbursed. they are -- everyone has

friends, family, they're everywhere. and so i think as the world becomes more free and people start recognizing that maybe their brother is gay and they have an aunt or cousins or their neighbors, you don't have the issue of segregation that happens among other communities. so i think people are much more open because if your son comes out and is like john cassik, the governor of ohio who all of a sudden is fine with same sex marriage because his son is gay. well, your son doesn't turn out to be black all of a sudden. i think issues of race are treated very differently because they don't have exposure. >> that was coreman, not casic so we're on the record. judy will be back with us on the next hour. thank you. in terms of our friends and family, if valerie and hillary want to get married at the house

now that it's legal in north carolina, come on. we would love to do it. up next, another week and another video gone viral showing excessive force on the part of the police. more at the top of this hour. first that feeling of numbness. then hot pins. almost like lightning bolts, hot strikes into my feet. so my doctor prescribed lyrica. the pain has been reduced and i feel better than i did before. [ male announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda-approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight, including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you.

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the nissan rogue, with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is your imagination. ♪ nissan. innovation that excites. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. we begin this hour with breaking news. we're standing by for a live news conference from the centers for disease control and prevention in atlanta on the latest case of ebola in the united states. a healthcare worker in dallas, texas has tested positive for ebola. the person worked at texas health presbyterian hospital and helped care for thomas eric duncan who, on wednesday, became the first person to die of ebola in the united states. the healthcare worker is now listed in stable condition and is in isolation. texas health officials say the hospital worker was wearing protective gear and following all cdc precautions while

helping to care for duncan. if the latest diagnosis of ebola is confirmed, it would be the first person-to-person transmission of the virus in the united states. now, i want to bring in nbc news correspondent sarah in dallas. i'm sorry. maybe -- there she is. hi, sarah. what's being done here to monitor those who may have had contact with this healthcare worker? >> reporter: step one is identifying these people and officials say that it is much easier this time around because of procedures they already had in place. now, this was somebody who was self-monitoring, that is, they were taking their own temperature and it was their responsibility to report any signs or symptoms of ebola which they did on friday evening when they came down with a fever. that test came back positive on saturday and since then officials have been working to identify anyone that this person came into contact with, anybody who was potentially exposed, and to notify them as well.

>> sarah, hold on for one moment. i see that the news conference is beginning and we want to get there live right now. >> our first speaker today is cdc director dr. tom freeden. >> good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. we're deeply concerned by the news that a healthcare worker in texas has tested preliminarily positive for infection with ebola virus. confirmatory testing is under way at cdc and will be completed later today. we don't know what occurred in the care of the index patient, the original patient in dallas, but at some point there was a breach in protocol, and that

breach in protocol resulted in this infection. the healthcare worker developed symptoms on friday. they were assessed last night and this morning, or last night i should say. today is sunday. they were assessed friday and tested yesterday, and the laboratory response network laboratory in austin, texas testing their result preliminarily positive. that result came in late last night, about exactly 12 hours ago. i will outline the steps that we have been taking before, since, and in the future to address this. the individual was self-monitoring, and immediately on developing symptoms, as appropriate, she contacted the healthcare system, and when she came in she was promptly

isolated. the level of her symptoms and indications from the test itself suggest that the level of virus that she had was low. there are four things that we're doing at this point. first, to make sure that we do everything possible to care safely and effectively for this individual. second, assessing her possible contacts from the moment she developed symptoms, and the cdc team lead for the dallas investigation has interviewed her and it appears at this time that there is only one contact who may have had contact with her while she may have been infectious. that individual is under active monitoring. third, we are evaluating other potential healthcare worker

exposures, because if this individual was exposed, which they were, it is possible that other individuals were exposed. we know that this individual did provide care to the index patient on multiple occasions, and that care included extensive contact. fourth, we will undertake a complete investigation of how this may have occurred. that's so important, so we can understand it better and intervene to prevent this from happening in the future. i want to go into little bit more detail first on what we are doing to promote safe and effective care and then on the investigation. in terms of safe and effective care, we had already begun several days ago to ramp up the education and training of healthcare workers at this

facility. the care of ebola can be done safely, but it's hard to do it safely. it requires meticulous and skrup lus attention to infection control and even a single inadvertent slip can result in contamination. second, we are recommending to the facility that the number of workers who care for anyone with suspected ebola be kept to an absolute minimum. third, we recommend that the procedures that are undertaken to support the care of that individual be limited solely to essential procedures. fourth, we're looking at personal protective equipment, understanding that there is a balance and putting more on isn't always safer. it may make it harder to provide effective care. so all aspects of personal protective equipment. fifth, we're recommending that there be a full-time individual

who's responsible only for the oversight supervision and monitoring of effective infection control while any patient with suspected or confirmed ebola is being cared for. cdc has sent additional staff to texas to saassist with this response, and we will continue to work closely with them. in the investigation itself we look at three different phases. what happens before someone goes in to an area where someone with suspected or confirmed ebola is being cared for, what happens in that space, and what happens when they leave. the two areas where we will be looking particularly closely is the performance of kidney dialysis and respiratory intubati intubation. both of those procedures may spread contaminated materials and are considered high risk

procedures. they were taken on the index patient as a desperate measure to try to save his life. in taking off respiratory protective equipment, we identify this as a major potential area for risk. when you have gone into and potentially soiled or contaminated gloves, masks, or other things, to remove those without any risk of any contaminated material touching you and being then on your clothes or face or skin and leading to an infection is critically important and not easy to do right. so these are areas that the investigation will look at, but we don't know what it will find. we'll be doing that over the coming days. before i turn it over to dr. lackey, the commissioner of the state department of health services, i do want to make two

final points. the first is that unfortunately, it is possible in the coming days that we will see additional cases of ebola. this is because the healthcare workers who cared for this individual may have had a breach of the same nature of the individual who appears now to have a preliminary positive test. that risk is in the 48 people who are being monitored, all of whom have been tested daily, none of whom so far have developed symptoms or fever, and in any other healthcare workers who may have been exposed to this index patient while he was being cared for. we're still determining how many healthcare workers that will be. that is an intensive investigation. it takes many hours of tracing steps. we'll always cast the net wider. there, though, is no risk to people outside of that circle of the healthcare workers who cared

for the individual patient and the initial 48 patients or contacts who had definite or possible contact with the index patient who we've already identified. the second point i want to make is that what we do to stop ebola is to break the links of transmission, to break the chains of transmission. and we do that by making sure that every person with ebola is promptly diagnosed, that they're promptly isolated, that we identify their contacts, and that we actively monitor their contacts every day for 21 days, and they develop symptoms or fever, we do the same process again. that's how we have stopped every ebola outbreak in history, except the one currently in west africa. that's how we stopped it in lagos, nigeria and that's how we will stop it in dallas. so breaking the links and the

chain of transmission is the key to preventing further spread. i'd like to turn it over to dr. lakey. >> thank you. this is david lakey, the commissioner of health in the state of texas. i appreciate the support from the cdc that they've given us, not only over the night but the last several weeks as we've been working through this unprecedented event. we've been working through the night trying to gather more information and as we get more information, as appropriate, we will provide that information. as dr. freeden noted, we do have one healthcare worker. the healthcare worker that had extensive contact with our initial patient who did what was appropriate with early symptoms, came in to be checked. we facilitated getting the blood tests done. that test came back at 9:30 last night, and as dr. freeden noted, was positive. the controls were appropriate.

the amount of virus in her blood was less than what was there when the first index test came back, but it's a positive test. so our hearts really do go out to this individual and the family. a healthcare worker who is willing to compassionately care for mr. duncan, and then our thoughts and prayers are with them. we have been preparing for events such as this, put in contingency plans. again, we're refining those plans and a lot of work is taking place right now. as dr. freeden noted, the 48 original contacts continue to be monitored and continue to do well. we have this one healthcare worker that now needs our care. and so as dr. freeden noted, we have been and will continue to monitor healthcare workers, stepping that up to make sure that any healthcare worker that has any fever or any other

symptoms will be quickly identified, as was this individual, continue to work to make sure the infection control practices that are being performed at the hospital are at the highest standards, and fully evaluating what is be under way and figure out exactly what happened that allowed this individual to be infected. we brought in more public health officials, public health staff, epidemiologists to make sure that we have the individuals we need to fully evaluate the situation. and again, appreciate the work from the cdc and their support for texas right now as we work through this situation. thank you. >> we will now take questions. we'll start in the room and then go to the phone. >> steve from wsb tv in atlanta. this healthcare worker has had

multiple contacts with the original patient. in your interviews with her, can she isolate where this may have occurred, this breach you say in those interviews with her talking about while your specifically investigating where she's taking off the equipment or anything, why you're focusing on that part in your investigation? >> we have spoken with the healthcare worker and that is individual has not been able to identify a specific breach. the way we do investigations like this is look at every single interaction, the nature of that interaction, we look at any other information we can gather. i was not mentioning the taking on or off ppe or the procedures related to the investigation, but as a general rule these are the two areas where we see the greatest risk. >> is this going to change the way healthcare workers anywhere, whether atlanta or dallas, interact with these potential

patients wear more gear or what's going to change now? >> it is certainly very concerning and it tells us that there is a need to enhance the training and protocols to make sure that the protocols are followed. the protocols work. we have decades of experience caring for patients with ebola, but we know that even a single lapse or breach inadvertent can result in infection. so figuring out how all of the things that we can do to minimize that risk such as those i went through, reducing the number of healthcare workers, reducing procedures to essential procedures, having a site monitor there, these are all the things that we'll be looking at closely. we'll go to the phone for questions. >> thank you. we'll begin the question and answer session. if you would like to ask a question, please press star one and say your name clearly and i'd introduce you by name. our first question is from dr. richard besser, abc news. >> hi, dr. freeden, you were

saying how difficult it is to implement proper infection control and how one slip can be so dangerous. is there any consideration of moving to a system where you would move patients to these specialized units where they actually be trained instead of treating them in hospitals where they really don't have that training? >> we're going to look at all opportunities to improve the level of safety and to minimize risk, but we can't let any hospital let its guard down because a patient, an american returning or somebody else coming into this country who had exposure and maybe didn't even have an awareness of that exposure may become ill. so we do want hospitals to have the ability to rapidly consider, isolate, and diagnose people who may have ebola. again, anyone who has been in guinea, liberia, or sierra leone in the past 21 days and has a

fever or other symptoms should be immediately isolated and evaluated for ebola. so i would distinguish that the diagnosis needs to be done anywhere, then thinking about what's the safest way to provide that care. that's something we'll absolutely be looking at. >> thanks very much. >> on the phone, next question? >> thank you. we have michelle with abc news. michelle? please check your mute button. let's go to the next question. caleb hellerman, cnn, the line is open. >> thank you, i was wondering if you could, dr. freeden, if you could or dr. lakey, if you could say anything more about the kind of extensive contact, what was the role of this person who has become infected and also if you could clarify the monitoring process. you said she was

self-monitoring. are some of the other contacts getting in-person visits or just what exactly is the process for taking your temperature or reporting in. >> i'll turn that over to commissioner lakey and i do want to thank the texas and dallas health authorities who have been working around the clock since the diagnosis of the first patient and have monitored every one of those 48 patients and taken their temperature and have now intensively surged to address this latest development. dr. lakey. >> that was cdc director thomas freeden briefing on ebola here in the united states. right now i want to bring in dr. ezekiel emanuel, he's an msnbc contributor and the chair of health policy and global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania. based on what you heard during this press conference, what are your initial reactions? >> this is a serious concern, as dr. freeden said, there has been

a breach in protocol and a breach somehow that bodily fluids got exchanged. it does remind you that this is very infectious once the bodily fluids mix. from my experience certainly in the early days of the aides epidemic where we just began with the gloves and mask and eye protective gear, removing these protective items is usually where something can go wrong, a glove snaps off or a flap on the gown hits your face. that would be my biggest concern. it sounded like it was dr. freeden's biggest concern also. i would also note that their efforts to reduce the number of people who are taking care of an ebola patient and increase the amount of time that they go with them, you're balancing two problems. yes, reducing the number of people exposed is a good thing. you can monitor them more easily, reduce the contacts that they have. on the other hand, it also dramatically increases their

exposure time and increases the risk. and so this is a very difficult balancing act to handle. >> i have two questions, one is about healthcare workers as a population and the other is about the general public. i want to start with healthcare workers. on the one hand, the cdc regulations seem to be highly effective but also even the smallest human error which is likely to happen in circumstances, particularly where people don't have a lot of experience, can lead to exposure very easily. is there any reason to think that this can cause healthcare workers to make decisions to choose not to treat patients? >> there's always -- i think almost all healthcare workers in this country recognize that they have an obligation to treat sick people no matter who they are. we also recognize that that obligation which goes well beyond the obligation of any individual in the public sphere has limits.

you can't expect people to risk their lives at very high risk. so that will be something that's going to be debated, how risky exposure minimizes or reduces that duty. i think in general healthcare workers in america, we had this big debate in the late '80s about do we have an obligation to treat aids patients and the answer was overwhelmingly, absolutely, they're just like every other part and we put in the best protections we have and we need to review every step so that we can minimize the risk. i think that's actually what we're going to learn here. there are probably some steps and things we're doing that are probably too risky and we shouldn't be doing them. one issue i would raise is if a patient is on the brink of dying, is it really right to intubate them which has a lot of fluids flying around where this isn't really going to bring this

patient back, where you've gone over the edge. that may be a place where you're really increasing the risk with really no benefit to the patient. i think they're going to probably be very careful scrutiny of every step and what are standard operating procedures and we should expect those to change. i think this issue of educating everyone, not just at emory or nebraska but everyone who could come in contact like a community hospital like texas health is going to be absolutely necessary and i think very appropriate to this country. >> dr. emanuel, thank you for weighing in here. i'm going to speak with you later on the program on another topic. >> my pleasure. >> we're going to take a quick break and then when we come back, we'll talk about the police, the people and all cameras. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states,

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or aggressive interactions between citizens and the police. although the circumstances of those interactions have varied, the consistent comality is the racialized nature of these encounters in which unarmed african-americans are subject to threatened or realized violence from the police. in july we watched eric garner die from what the new york city medical examer ruled a homicide by choke hold after he was restrained by police during an arrest. a month later a camera from a police cruiser showed us this texas month, who, having done nothing to warrant a stop, was pulled over and handcuffed while her four young children were in the car. one of those children putting his hands up as he was ordered by the police to get out of the vehicle while they had drawn their guns. then just last month, we all finally were able to see what john crawford's family had already seen on surveillance video weeks before, the final moments of john crawford's life when he was shot and killed by

police while shopping at an ohio walmart. in september we also watched this dash cam video of a man shot by a state trooper while he was trying to reach into his vehicle to get his i.d. this week there is this, a traffic stop for an unworn seatbelt that turned into a horrifying ordeal for one indiana family. on the cell phone video captured by a 14-year-old sitting in the back seat, you're going to hear his mother lisa ma hone on the phone with 911 saying she fears for her life. she has called the police on the police. she narrates events as she sees them happening to the operator, starting with the reason she's in a hurry to be on her way. now, i want to warn you, some of this video may be difficult for some viewers to watch. >> they just gave me a ticket so i can go to the hospital because the doctor called me to tell me to come in because my mom is about to pass away. >> the officers order her boyfriend, jamaal jones, who is

seated in the passenger seat to produce identification and get out of the vehicle. here's what mahone tells the operator next. >> he's looking for his information in his book bag. when he digs into his book bag, they pulled the gun out. what was the purpose of a gun? >> as jones continues to refuse the officer's commands to get out of the vehicle, she tells the 911 operator the reason for their resistance. >> why do you say somebody is not going to hurt you. people are getting shot by the police. >> then only seconds later this moment. the officer smashing the window. jones screaming and the sounds of his body reacting as he is tasered and pulled by the police from the car and arrested. after that, the very last sounds we hear are the ones that have stuck with me since i first watched the video are this. >> that was crazy. that was horrible.

[ crying ] >> the fourth occupant of the car, mahone's 7-year-old daughter terrified and crying after witnessing everything. now, it may be attempting as we watch each of these videos to become the subject of his own sensational coverage to view them as extreme, but then there is this, another video which went viral after it was posted last week to facebook, showing a stop in san dusky, ohio, with strikingly similar characteristics. we see another couple in a car with their 2-month-old baby in the back seat. they were pulled over by an officer who says he believed the man in the passenger seat was a wanted felon. according to the san dusky register, an internal investigation conducted by the police chief appears to reveal denny clearly knew stock et was

not the wanted man. stockette knows he is not the wanted man and explains to officer denny while recording the encounter on his cell phone. stockette's girlfriend had given the officer all of the information that was requested of her and this was the response. >> you look exactly like a person that has warrants, okay. >> but that's not me. >> then you can i.d. yourself. >> i don't have to i.d. myself. i do not have to i.d. myself. i'm not answering none of your questions. >> after the officer then brings a k-9 unit to inspect the car. stockette poses this question to him. >> how is that probable cause? that's not probable cause, sir. >> her nervousness -- >> her nervousness? >> we have a 2-month-old son

here. >> he gets out after officer denny makes this threat. >> then your children will go to children's services. >> for what? >> everything right now is legal. you were driving without lights on -- >> are you serious, man, when? >> i need to pause right here. on this nightmare scenario of a traffic stop ending with the threat of having your child taken away. the questions stockette asks as he tries to make sense of what is happening. he is invoking the same language enshrined in one of the constitutional amendments that came from the experience of colonial americans resisting the occupying forces of the british. it was that experience that led the founders to lay out this fundamental right of the people to be secure in their persons, how'ses, papers, effects against unreasonable searches and procedures shall not be violated

and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause. but when we see repeated examples in which probable cause will not protect you, when producing papers will not protect you, when complying with officer's orders will not protect you, when the presence of a child will not protect you or them, when putting up your hands will not protect you, it begs the question, what will? that dares to work all the way until the am. new aleve pm the only one with a sleep aid. plus the 12 hour strength of aleve.

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participated in the march including some who staged a sit-in at the gas station. after someone reportedly attacked the police car, riot police arrived and used tear gas to disperse the crowd. joining me, valerie core, a fellow at stanford law school and khalil mohammed, director of the center for research and black center and author of the condemnation of blackness and msnbc reporter amanda. i just want to start with you on last night. can you help us understand more clearly, st. louis and ferguson are very near to one another but it's hard to tell if they're separate sets of protests and organizers or whether or not

there are intersections, connections, help us to understand. >> good morning, melissa. as is the theme with many of the days here, the day will start out with very peaceful demonstrations, in this case bringing thousands of protestors together. and then at night it takes a turn with tense clashes with the police. now, there were two separate types of protests last night. we saw michael brown's family, including his mother, leading a prayer at the site of where he was killed. and from there, they marched up to where the ferguson police department is in order to stage a protest in front of their headquarters there. now, the neighborhood where the second shooting where another young black man was killed by police is in a different neighborhood, the shaw neighborhood of st. louis. in many ways those spontaneous protests have not been linked to this weekend of resistance that we've been seeing, this four-day event. it's been more spontaneous and brought together by not the

typical organizers who gather in ferguson regularly. >> hold on for us. don't leave. i want to come to the table here for a second. i want to ask you, going back to some of the video that i just walked us through, i think part of the challenge is it is tough to tell whether or not what is happening and what we're seeing is common or uncommon and whether it is legal or illegal. it seems horrifying, but horrifying doesn't mean that it's not legal. can you help us to see that in terms of police action here. >> legal is actually a low standard. in most places of the country the police have very broad authority to use their power. the real issue is to go beyond what the law allows. the law recognizes these situations as volatile and unpredictable. agencies themselves have to have policies, supervision, have to have training, have to really reinforce this and there has to be political will in the communities to make that happen. the law generally gives the police scary power and we have

so many laws now and so much enforcement that just saying what does the law allow is not enough. the bottom line is the police should be using force only as a last resort because they must, not because they can. >> that seems to be part of what's horrifying about those stops, in particular. there is an argument to be made. i'm not sure that i would agree but there's an argument to be made that in some of the shooting cases it's instantaneous decision-making by officers who feel that their lives are threatened. that's not the same thing when you have stopped the car and there are children in the back, right? >> and people get this. some police are wearing out their welcome because this community gets it, people understand it, they give the police this power. it's up to the police as an institution, and they've done it in a lot of places. they have to reign this in and make sure that they're perceived as being fair and force as a last resort and deescalation and being a peace officer has to be

emphasiz emphasized. otherwise people are going to lose faith. having a debating issue which some police chiefs want to have sort of win by technical points. it loses the community when you're doing that. >> khalil, that issue of losing the community and people losing faith, i feel like, well, amen i am there. at this point i feel much more terror every time i see blue lights than when i think about ebola or isis. it feels to me -- and not blue lights coming from me but anywhere on the street. like please, god, don't make me have to interact here. these videos make it feel like there's nothing that makes you safe. >> i think the point about the community is really the most important debate we're having right now. whose community counts, how do we define community, what is the nature of citizenship. if you are outside the bounds of the social contract, if your community is subject to repression and okay occupation, if your citizenship is optional,

then the police are not your friend. they are reinforcing existing hierarchies of privilege and power and inequality. they are not counter ensurgery ent. they are not bottom up. they express all the disadvantages that are heaped on particular communities in our nation. we have to redefine that. i think in terms of historical context, what this moment teaches us is that this is the unfinished work of the civil rights revolution. this is the work that the naacp was not able to do and was ambivalent about. that is the work that ultimately the late usualen rebellions. late 1960s tied to directly. so we are now facing in raw, unvarnished truth what policing has been after the civil rights

movement. >> stick with me. i have much, much more on that. amanda in sait. louis, missouri thank you so much for your continued reporting. stay safe. >> thank you, melissa. we'll be back, more on the question of policing and community and what it means to be american when we come back. ♪ americans drink over 13 billion gallons of sugary beverages every year. over-consumption may link to obesity. but there is a better choice. drink more water, filtered by brita. clean, refreshing, nothing is better.

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we're back and continuing to talk about the issue of police and policing. i wanted to let you in on this, valerie. >> i think this is a movement moment, that we're not just reeling in the after math of ferguson. we are confronting race indifference in the united states. i was just in st. louis on the one-month memorial of mike brown's shooting and young people get that this is not just about police accountability but about the larger stereotypes that lead to bad policing, stereotypes that cast african-americans as criminals, latinos as illegals, transgendered as deviant and

muslims as potential terrorists. it's promising that we see young people really expand the field that we have people of all different backgrounds fighting and marching for how we see one another in this country. >> yet, it does feel important to me to mark the space that is different between unconscious bias which is a lot of how kind of the policing problems have been discussed and which could be a lot of it, versus what feels like old-fashioned racism, which is what it looks like to me when there's a 7-year-old in the back and you're continuing to push. >> the thing is that probable cause now is being black. it's just -- >> fits the description. >> how many times have black folks been stopped and said you fit the description and that description means black. so i think that this movement that's going on is all about people understanding that we have to lift up our blackness. our blackness should not equal fear for you. it shouldn't offend you. it shouldn't lead to the death of someone. >> but at the moment it does,

and so i keep -- like my challenges on the one hand, wanting to have a movement moment -- i was walking home last night in new york and i see two young officers, both men of color sitting in the restaurant checking their phones. they looked like young men to me and i really wanted to sit down with them and say, hey, can we talk about this because this seems like a lot. what keeps shocking me is that in so many of these cases, it's not one officer, there's two, three, four, six standing there. is it possible to actually penetrate what's going on with officers? is there a space to get in there and have a real conversation with this? >> the police see these things differently. they see them individually. i understand the community doesn't necessarily see them as a group but the idea is that they are sort of different situations. it's not just a traffic stop to the police if they don't cooperate and i think it's a matter of a law where there's children in the car. this is not about hammond but we know there are situations in

cleveland, jeffrey dahmer where the cops weren't aggressive enough but these are all unique. in cleveland the police would have pushed a little harder and may have saved people. >> but then people are scared. you are scared for your life. >> and we tend to say that police officers being scared for their life is a legitimate basis for them shooting. but right now civilians feel afraid for their lives. >> but this is also a kind of ebola-zation of policing. you talk about definite jeffrey dahmer but one person across an entire region so you can't go to a restaurant if you happen to be black or have a west african accent.

>> we lost a lot of time today. i promise we will be return to this issue over and over again. i want to thank my guests for spending some time with us this morning just for scratching the surface. up next, the man who made my mom who is 71 very angry. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. ♪ i thought it'd be bigger. ♪

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. how much life is too much and how much is just enough? dr. emmanuel one of president obama's strongest proponents for the affordable care act touched off a national debate when the atlantic magazine published his thoughtful essay on why getting old might be overrated. it's entitled, why i hope to die at 75. and the headlines tell the story as critics fired back accusing emmanuel of being everything from an ageist to off his rocker. >> so after, i guess, going to stop going to the doctor and let

nature take its course, which, frankly, is not narcissistic, but it's stupid. >> his defense. his brother rahm is the mayor of chicago. >> maybe i'm turning into some kind of crazy radical, but i would agree with them. only, i would go a lot further. >> he doesn't himself want to live beyond 75. he doesn't believe that people beyond 75 are worthy of anything. >> joining me now to set the record straight is dr. zeke emanuel. so are you suggesting that a life that is marked by pain and struggle and lack of creative contribution is a life not worth living? >> no, that's not what the article says at all. it's funny to see what people tell me what they think. and it appears they didn't read the article at all. no, i do think what i'm asking people is what is meaningful to

you? what would be a quality of life to you? and how is that related to living as long as possible? it's the sort of obsession with quantity. we have to live as long as possible. that i'm questioning and ask people to focus what's meaningful to you? and i say in the article, it's a personal article about what's meaningful to me. my fear about being functionally limited, having dementia, losing creativity and productivity. and not wanting to leave my kids with a memory that somehow of me frail and dependent. and i want them to remember me as vigorous. and that's my view. i've had extensive discussions with my daughters and brothers and everyone. it might not be for everyone. what i wanted to do was to provoke people to think about this issue and not sort of thoughtlessly or live, live, live. most people, that's not what

really is meaningful. >> on the one hand, it is a personal article. but on the other hand, it has important social and policy and medical practice implications. and it does seem to me when we look at medical resource spending and we look at the percentage of resource spending that goes to the elderly. so we spend the bulk of our money on interventions for people who have the shortest likely life span left. is that the wrong way for us to spend social resources? >> well, this article is not about that. and i say it's not about rationing. i don't think we spend more than enough on health care. we don't need to ration now. and it's really not a policy piece. it is a personal piece about what is meaningful to you in your life. and, again, i think for most people, just living on and on and on, that's not the goal in life. the goal is, you know, to accomplish something to have a complete life to give your kids, the community, the country the benefits of your having lived here. and that, i think, for many

people, you know, 75 is about -- for other people it might be 80. but i think a lot of it does depend upon how functional you are, how engaged you are. and not just racking up the days on and on. >> well, my mom who is 71 read the article, came over to my kitchen and screamed for about an hour. i want to know. 75 is -- >> well, maybe i should see -- getting her to think about it and engage you in a discussion. >> we did, in fact, have a great conversation. so thank you to -- >> that was the point. >> thank you to dr. zeke emanuel. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. right now it's time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> great discussion. we're going to bring you more on the big, breaking news. i'm going to be speaking with the former surgeon general and ask how a breach in protocol lead to a new case of ebola. in detroit, the strange ups and downs of the housing market. how could one man sell his house for an iphone?

really? and why would he do that? and the parents of an american held hostage by isis. we're going to hear how isis captures its victims. stay with us. we'll be right back. we love our. and now telcos using hp big data solutions are feeling the love, too. by offering things like on-the-spot data upgrades -- an idea that reduced overcharge complaints by 98%. no matter how fast your business needs to adapt, if hp big data solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. make it matter. imagine what they can do for yours. hard it can be...how ...to breathe with copd? it can feel like this. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled... ...copd maintenance treatment... ...that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide

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earn miles in order to go visit my family which means a lot to me. ♪ new ebola fears, a second case in texas. the big question this hour. how did a health worker in protective gear catch it? i'll talk to the former surgeon general of the united states. >> i'm hoping that he will somehow hear of this and of other conversations we've had or other times we've spoken in public. >> the family of an american hostage held by isis. hear their message and how he and others are being captured by the terror group. voting rights, how can we interpret a slew of moves by it have supreme court this past week that could affect how you vote next month. caught on camera, a subway thief who is apparently not interested in stealing anyone's money. you're going to see him as he