much for joining me tonight. >> thank you so much. the vatican embraces gays. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, movement in the rock of ages. for the first time in its 2,000-year history, the roman catholic church is changing its tone on gay relationships. also toward unmarried straight couples. a vatican panel of bishops says it's time to salute the moral value of both. yes, the walls of jericho are quaking me. michael steele, who was on the way to becoming a priest, and washington post opinion writer jonathan capehart. it's the recognition of the value of same-sex relationships,

whether in law, polling, or word of mouth. now the catholic church has joined in. a panel of bishops wrote, without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions, it has to be noted there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of partners. when you talk about this, this recognition of goodness in gays, that's what it is. >> it's breath-taking. i'm used to a catholic church and a papacy that talks about gays and lesbians with all sorts of negative language, negative tone, sneering tone, unwelcoming. and ever since pope francis ascended to the papacy, there's been a shift, a tone. he talks about us as if we are full-fledged, you know, children of god, people who deserve respect and dignity. he did that in an interview a

year ago with america magazine, and you take these -- the interview that he did on the plane, coming back from a trip where he said, you know, who am i to judge? that's what set this off in the america magazine interview, which is just a man talking. with the synod going on and with this draft coming out from this two-week meeting so far, we're seeing it move from rhetoric, to not policy, because i don't expect the catholic church to change 2,000 years of belief in teaching, but a document that talks about, that recognizes gay relationships -- >> what do you mean? you're gay, what did it mean to you? >> it meant that an institution that means a lot to billions of people around the world, recognizes me as -- and values me as a full-fledged child of god. i'm not catholic. i am christian. i was raised christian. but to see an institution, that's spend centuries denigrating people like me, to see it turn, at least in tone,

with this one man, pope francis, is pretty remarkable. >> it seems to me what they've done, the pope's leadership and the bishops following it, is to shift from a focus on sexual behavior if you will, or attraction, or identity even, to commonality. >> not even commonality, but personhood. and that's the real focus of this document. and its underpinnings are anchored in the individual, the person, and the family. and how the person is as much as a part of the family as the family is as a whole. the focus in the past has been about the collective of the family. but here the pope and the bishops, they're looking at the individuals and how they make the family. and i think that is a profound mark away from where the church has been in these types of conflicts. >> these are signs of change in

our culture. i've said -- we all have said this. the biggest cultural change in our generations, we have a little span here, but is this recognition of the humanity of gay people? >> right. >> it wasn't like this. there was gay jokes 20 years ago that were assemble. new york cardinal timothy dolan who is no liberal, but years of resistance, who just last month supported gay groups marching as such, under their own banner in the parade. the headline was gay groups in st. patty's day parade, all right with cardinal dolan. he's such a regular guy. it's almost like the mayor of new york has said it, but we know that. but the cardinal of new york, it's a big deal. >> and it was a precursor of what we're seeing played out now at the senate. put it in context. you touched on it. doctrinally, nothing changes, but the way we look to integrate divorced catholics, gay and lesbian couples and individuals

into the doctrine of the church, into the face of the church is profoundly important and that's what this pope wants more than anything else. >> not only with the gay element, which is enormous, but a lot of people got stuck with the wrong partner in straight marriage. gay marriage too. >> that will be discovered. >> i mean hatred relationships, horror relationships. i knew a couple women who married guys, they were beautiful courtships, within months, they were beating them up. so they had to escape that. nobody can believe that's a blessed marriage. then they find out and the church is saying, good for you. you're a good person. you're going to be okay. we're not going to exclude you because you got into the wrong thing. a really good marriage is a wonderful thing. it's not always the norm. >> i mean, this gets back to what michael was just saying about how it seems as though the church is looking at the individual, that this person has something. this person who was in the church who feels alienated from

the church for one reason or another, not welcome because they're gay, not welcome because they're divorced, or they have a child out of marriage, not welcome -- fill in the blank. now you have a church and a pope who is saying, we with have millions of catholics out there who no longer feel like they're catholic, no longer feel welcome in the church because of something that is inherently part of who they are, or because they got themselves in a situation where they had to escape, as you said. >> we go to church and i never heard a priest say, go-away if you're guy. they don't say go away if you're divorced. but in effect, it's just nice to make it official and have the pope come out and say, you're welcome. you're part of us. that's a big deal. >> the emphasis of the document that they released, pushes down to the parish. it recognizes that, how do we begin to help those divorced catholics be whole within the catholic faith? it's for the parish to embrace them and put in place the

structure -- >> a very conservative father can be very tough. remember the movie "doubt"? the mothers afraid to tell the husband because he's kill the kid if he said he was gay. anyway, that will change. we didn't even get to the republican party and your platform, but we'll get there. [ all speak at once ] >> i think there are lessons for political parties in what this pope is doing, in recognizing that this is not about a party structure. leave those matters to the church and the community and the individuals to work out. you stick to your politics, and i think they'll be better off for it. >> i think they got enough to handle with abortion -- >> exactly. >> always something worthy of moral debate. great to have you on. your openness about this is wonderful. great we're talking about this. 10, 20 years ago, this wasn't something you chatted about. >> you think i wanted to chat about it 20 years ago? [ laughter ] >> no.

i don't know where do go with that one. anyway, thank you both. up next, fireworks in kentucky. mcconnell and grimes butt-heads in their only debate. and while she still won't say who she voted for for president the last couple times, she met mitch blow for blow, and that's coming up right away. take a look at this poll

take a look at this poll about how americans think we should confront ebola. americans want to restrict entry to this country by anyone who's been to west africa where the disease is running rampant. "the washington post" poll found 2/3 say we should block entry for anyone who's traveled to liberia, sierra leone, or guinea. tough stuff. we'll be right back. good from " so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress.

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safeguards against prescription drug abuse. and holds the medical industry accountable for mistakes. i'm barbara boxer. let's save lives. vote yes on 46. welcome back to "hardball." three weeks to go until election day. things are getting nasty. last night candidates went for the chin in the only kentucky senate debate. as expected, the big question there was the one alison

lundergan grimes refused to answer. and in texas, wendy davis has gone nuclear. digging in after a flood of negative press about a grisly ad she ran which highlights her opponent being in a wheelchair. and jim carol is the washington bureau chief. let's start with the big headline in kentucky where alison lundergan grimes is on her own because today the news broke that the campaign arm for democrats in the senate has pulled out in order to focus on other races. but first the drama from last night. leading up to the debate, the mcconnell campaign released this ad on tv for dodging a question about who she voted for in the last presidential election. >> alison lundergan grimes' refusal to say who she voted for

for president is now the non-answer heard round the country. >> did you vote for president obama in 2008 and 2012? >> you know, this election -- >> she refused to answer. >> dodging whether she voted for president obama. >> and kentuckians expect her to cast a tough vote on anything? is she ever going to answer a tough question on anything? >> are you not going to answer? >> i'm mitch mcconnell and i approved this message. >> i think she disqualified herself, i really do. >> well, here's now grimes responded somewhat in last night's debate. >> why are you reluctant to give an answer on whether or not you voted for president obama? >> bill, there's no reluctance. this is a matter of principle. our constitution grants here in kentucky the constitutional right for privacy at the ballot box, for a secret ballot. you have that right, senator mcconnell has that right. every kentuckian has that right. and as the chief election

official, i'm tasked with overseeing and making sure that we're enforcing all of our election laws. >> so you won't answer that question don't? >> again, you have that right. senator mcconnell has that right. every kentuckian has the right for privacy at the ballot box. if we don't stand up for that right, who in kentucky will? >> i don't think there's ever been a debate over the right to keep secret how you vote. it's the question, why would you do that? if you're asking people to vote for you. won't she have to say when she pushes people to vote for hillary, that she's going to vote for hillary? what's this weird secrecy about? i don't get it. >> she was clear she voted for hillary, and that wasn't private. so why is this one? why is it so hard to say, i voted for the democrat because i'm a democrat. they stand for the middle class, raise the minimum wage. to me, it ties into another problem that she's had, the deep reluctance to talk about the

benefits of obamacare in kentucky. which last night she was willing to do a little. >> keyed up. >> yeah. >> and she could have hit mcconnell hard and said, wait a minute, we have kentucky, we have obamacare here and it's working. why didn't she jump in? >> i don't know why she didn't jump in. >> mcconnell tried to separate the two and say that obamacare was something different. tear it out root and branch, but leave connect which is the obamacare program in kentucky and he said sure that's fine, it's just a website. >> he stumbled when answering questions about his own vow to repeal obamacare root and branch. obamacare which is called kentucky connect in the state has been a big success and here's mcconnell. >> has obamacare and connect been a boon or bane for the majority of kentuckians, senator? >> kentucky connect is a website.

it was paid for by 200 some-odd million dollar grant from the federal government. the website can continue. but in my view, the best interest of the country would be achieved by pulling out obamacare root and branch, and let me tell you why. >> you would support the continuation of -- >> it's a state decision. >> you would support it? >> i think it's fine to have a website, yeah. >> i think that's what you call in objective terms, bs. anyway, obamacare is kentucky connect. steve bashir made that obvious point on our own show. take a look at the governor. >> is obamacare, as implemented in the state of kentucky, basically called connect, ky for kentucky. in other words, you can't get rid of one, without getting rid of the other. they are one and the same. >> that's exactly right.

you get rid of the affordable care act and everything else falls apart. >> jim, why is he doing this? going after alison, let's be fair. why is mitch hiding from the obvious truth here? >> one word, it's obama. he wants everything tide to alison grimes as closely as possible. that's the same reason she didn't answer who she voted for. >> do you think she voted for obama? we don't know. it opens a can of worms. is she one of those people who wouldn't vote for him because hillary lost? her first answer, which i find fascinating, when he was asked, she said, i'm a clinton democrat. how did that come up? it wasn't the question put to her. >> we talk about dog whistle politics, this is a case where she's signaling to the democrats in kentucky -- >> we got to talk texas. in texas, wendy davis is standing by an ad that she put

on the air that generated a frenzy of criticism. >> a tree fell on greg abbott, he sued and got millions. since then, he spent his career working against other victims. abbott argued a woman whose leg was amputated was not disabled because she had an artificial limb. he ruled against a rape victim who sued a corporation for failing to do a background check on a sexual predator. he sided with a hospital who failed to stop a dangerous surgeon who paralyzed patients. greg abbott, he's not for you. >> last night he responded to the ad. let's watch that. >> if she wants to attack a guy in a wheelchair, that's her prerogative. for me, i'm running a different type of campaign. it shows that her campaign is focused on one thing, and that is attacking me and addressing me. what texans really want, they

want a governor who has a vision for their fellow texans and for a brighter future. >> what do you make of that? i mean roosevelt was in a wheelchair. and even as dirty as politics can be, i don't think republicans were stupid enough to attack roosevelt for being in a wheelchair? image wise, it doesn't click with me. >> no, it must be said, though -- >> tell me the point. >> there's an hypocrisy argument here that in texas it's very hard for regular people to sue companies -- >> where are the trial lawyers putting their money? >> with the democrats. but in texas, it's become more difficult than anywhere else in the country. >> are there caps? >> there are caps. >> so it's tort reform. >> but it was not there when he got -- >> but it's a popular position, tort reform, it sounds good. is it or not? >> when you tell people it's harder to get a settlement than it was for him when he got his, it's a touchy place to go.

>> she's not going to win the election with this thing. >> that's what the polls show. i think this is like the picking the daisy ad -- it will be shown in campaign schools for decades. >> she's a young woman, obviously, a beginner in politics. alison grimes has great potential. what i like about her is her presentation, the way that she's strong, she physically confronts and she comes off as sort of a joan of arc figure if you will. but a strong figure. >> which is one of the things that i have thought, made me think she had a shot against mitch mcconnell. she really talks with vim and vigor. >> like you and me. >> exactly. which is why i wondered why she wasn't cut loose by the campaign. >> maybe she's too controlled. maybe somebody said don't tell the people who you voted for. when do you know to cut loose?

>> she could have cut loose on obamacare. saying why is mitch not being honest about this law. >> you know the trouble getting an interview with her? >> this limited media access would be the kind way to put it. >> she knows what she wants to talk about, but doesn't have a tremendous amount of experience. is that fair? >> that's fair. she has her talking points. she thinks if she sticks with them, she has a reasonable chance. and let's face it, this race is very close. and it shouldn't be. this state romney carried easily. >> but it's mitch mcconnell. you wrote a book about it. is she the opposite of joe biden? >> isn't that an interesting -- >> joe biden makes mistakes, because he's the scrambler. she's a quarterback in the pocket. doesn't take crazy runs with the ball. biden is always running with the ball. >> remember his line that got great laughs, have drink with mcconnell?

really, you have drinks with mcconnell and everybody laughed. >> everybody wants to have drinks with biden because who knows what's going to happen. great debate, i think she was really strong. i don't get the secrecy about who you voted for. anyway, thank you both. up next, south dakota, and the independent senate candidate who actually i'm rooting for, who has turned what was once a sure thing for republicans into the surprise of the year. this is "hardball," a place for politics.

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welcome back to "hardball." it's been widely assumed by the entire political world that south dakota's open senate seat is safe republican territory. and an automatic pickup for the gop come november. but last week, a new poll came out showing that the independent candidate, former u.s. senator larry pressler, and the democratic candidate are both within striking distance of the republican mike rounds.

that news prompts the democrats to pour a million dollars into the race to attack rounds, the republican. the "new york times" writes, the democrats are racing to pour money into this sparsely populated state where the midwest converge and prairie populism meets rural conservativism. he served for three terms and is now running for his old job as an independent and she joins me now. senator pressler, this is an amazing decision you made at the age of 72. you give us all hope in the fact that you're running and you're not getting a lot of money and yet you are neck and neck with the two moneyed candidates. how do you explain it? >> well, yes, this is somewhat audacious, but i decided that i didn't like some of the directions our country was going in. i decided to get off my behind and offer my seniority. i can take my seniority back to the senate and it looks as though we may have an

independent coming from kansas, myself and two independents there. i think it's the start of a something very significant. i sense it every day when i'm out campaigning. people want something different. they want an independent, a moderate. and so i think we may make some history here in south dakota. but even if i don't win, i think i have contributed issues to the campaign and the journey may well be as important as the destination. even if i should be elected, i'm promising to serve only one six-year term because i don't want to have to raise any more money. most united states senators spend 52% of their time raising money. i can spend 100% of my time being a senator and i could speak for south dakota as well as the nation and i look forward to doing that if the people want me to. >> let me ask you about the senate you left in '96. it was somewhat dysfunctional, but seemed to work. now people believe in the senate

and the house don't work. how can you change it back to where it was? >> well, you have written very eloquently about the friendship between tip o'neil and ronald reagan and between kennedy and barry gold water. people can be friends and have opposite views. i'm a friend of obama and also mitt romney. i gave a fund-raiser for mitt romney and contributed to his campaign. people reach conclusions, but i'm a moderate, i want to end the poisonous disputes between republicans and democrats and i want to get back to the time where we can be friends in the united states senate and get some things done. we haven't done anything on the budget. the senate hasn't passed a budget in years. >> i know. i'm with you on that, senator. i am totally with you. the failure, the delinquency of that body to do what it's told to do by its own budget act, it doesn't even do a budget. how can you keep to a budget if

you don't even have one? and they don't. do you want the voters to know who you're going to caucus with if it's a close vote between republican and democratic control of the senate? do you want the voters to know how you're going to vote, or don't you want them to know? >> senator, angus king has counselled me and he does not necessarily support me, he's counselled me to wait until i get there. the decision what i will make will be based on where i can get the most roll call votes on issues that are important to me. that's tax reform, helping our senior citizens, helping my state, but also helping our nation balance the budget. and contrary to calculating this or that, it will be which caucus where i think i can get the most done and what commitments we have to actually casting some basic roll call votes. they're all roll call votes, but some basic, not tabling, or not --

>> you trust the leaders to keep a deal? whoever it is, harry reid or mitch mcconnell. you trust them to give you those four votes up or down, if that's the deal up front? you trust them to hold it? >> well, it would be talking to more than them. you'd have to talk to several members of the caucus on each side. now it's possible there will be an independent caucus. if we have four independent united states senators. there are two there now, maybe one from kansas and me, we could have a caucus of our own. anwork with both sides. you know, the two independent senators who are there now have been very effective. you may disagree with bernie sanders, but he got the veterans bill passed in record time. and also i think angus king has been a very effective and powerful senator. i want to be a powerful senator for south dakota. we need a powerful senator to stand up to the burlington northern railroad. we need a powerful senator to get better air service into sioux falls. our native american reservations

are an embarrassment. i'm embarrassed and ashamed of that pine ridge is in the condition that it's in. i've been endorsed by the native american newspapers all across south dakota. we have a situation here in our state where we have a racist situation to some extent, and i want to work on that in my last productive years. i hope i may have quite a few left. >> thank you. by the way, you're sitting in front of one of my favorite things in this entire country, that's mount rushmore. i sat for hours and looked at that amazing thing. good luck in your race. >> thank you. up next, in the round table, the vatican's big shift. what a surprise. and the debates held last night between alison grimes and mitch mcconnell and why some republicans can't quit mitt romney. he's back. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

here's what's happening this hour. controversial texas voter i.d. law back in effect after being reinstated by a federal appeals court. the justice department has criticized measures and others like it. nina pham, the texas nurse suffering from ebola is said to be in good condition. she's expressed thanks for the kind wishes she's received so far. and 100 more u.s. troops have arrived in liberia. thousands are set to be deployed to fight the ebola outbreak in western africa. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." mitt romney in 2016, is the republican party ready to run him again? tackle that in a moment.

but first the vatican wants to change the tone about gays and same-sex couples. the working class republican conservative, senior strategist. he was with rick santorum's campaign in 2012. and a writer from "the washington post." i got to start with the catholic in the group. are you impressed, i am, with the pope and opening the doors for gay people and also people where the first marriage may have been a disaster and they're married to someone else, much different than it was when i was growing up. >> this is not of course the final word from the pope or from the synod, but it's a huge change in town, welcome by i think almost everybody. even people who may disagree, feel we're welcoming people in, that this is such a departure from a time when people really did feel that the door had been

closed. but the biggest change, i think, in this synod is that the cardinals, the bishops are able to speak. >> they know they have a friend. >> they're able to speak openly. they've been encouraged to just go with the discussion after so many years when we were told certain topics are off the table. >> amy, you're not catholic, but what do you think of all this? does it mean anything to you? >> i think it means something when you have a cultural shift like we've had in this country. you're seeing that the courts have weighed in. you're seeing that voters are weighing in. and the public weighing in on how it feels about the issues of same-sex marriage and making such a move so quickly. on all three of those fronts and then to see a major denomination like this also, again, it's not changing policy, but it is changing a tone. it's somewhat dramatic. >> it is. >> in a short matter of time. the court, the church and public opinion all moving in the same direction.

>> because people are. >> i have 16 years of catholic education, so i have a little bit of relevance. but the point was, if this was a policy department and a communications department, this is going out through the communications department. here is now we're going to treat this. and it is a change and it's the right one. i think most catholics are going to say it's the right one. but the key, what the pope is really saying, is let's not concentrate on what we disagree with. let's concentrate on the virtues that a lot of gay couples bring to the table. >> if you're a kid with gay parents, this changes your happiness level. you want to hear the pope say, he's okay. we may disagree, but he's one of us. >> some of it is that the message that even his predecessors were sending that we don't reject these people, that we want these people in the church, is getting through now in a different way. >> let's go to a strong suit, politics. [ laughter ] mitt romney, my hunch is, he

ceases to be attractive. like a mother saying to her daughter, don't make yourself too available. as long as his wife says he's not available, he's attractive. the minute he says i'm a candidate for president, he's got problems. >> yeah, i completely agree. there's a vacuum right now. there's no front-runner on the republican side. republicans see a president that's struggling with policies, they think the country is falling apart with here of the mitt romney. but if there were a stronger front-runner on the republican side, you wouldn't see this -- >> the box he wants to fill is center. there's no moderates left. christie's got it, we're still waiting for the prosecutor to do something we don't know what he's going to do. and jeb is hamlet right now. you keep getting signals -- >> he doesn't seem to be. i don't think mitt romney is going to run. but i will eat my lunch if he runs.

>> set it up. jeb doesn't run. christie gets indicted. who runs? >> mitt will run. >> that's what i'm saying. >> that's a huge jump. >> start with jeb not running. wait a minute. >> the republican party in thought process of this presidential is divided in two ways. the moderates say, we got to move to the center, get more hispanic votes, and women votes. the lessons of 2012. and then the other message, we'll compromise and get the by who's like mccain and romney who maybe fit our party but not always, so there's a big split-up, do we go back and say, what does our party stand for -- >> is that mitt romney lost hispanics -- [ all speak at once ] >> over the weekend, while campaigning for joni ernst in iowa, romney told this joke.

the fact that it's a joke is pretty amazing. let's watch. >> when you're running for office, people tell you you shouldn't tell jokes. but i'm not running for office so i can tell you. a family member said -- [ inaudible ] the teller said you got to prove who you are. he said how should i do that? she said the other day phil mickelson doesn't have his i.d., but he set up a putt, and he made and we cashed his check. and andre agassi came in without his i.d., and he hit a target on the wall with a tennis racket so we cashed his check. they said, there anything you can do to prove who you are? and he said i don't have a clue. [ laughter and applause ] you must be the president, do you want your money in small bills or large bills?

>> i think that was an eisenhower joke going way back. he's got his humor back. >> this is the perfect role for him. i don't say this sarcastically. being toast master some days, but other days more thoughtful -- >> he gets primetime at the convention. >> it's so far away. >> are you going to put cheney on the platform? >> i know it's not going to be clint eastwood. i can tell you that for sure. >> maybe the chair. >> he's not running, though. he wouldn't have made that joke if he was running. i think you have some consultants who would lost for him to run, some other people who don't have a dog in the fight. they would love to have romney. >> i'm going to make my prediction, and it's all on tape. if jeb doesn't run, he runs. >> i don't believe it. >> you don't have to. i'll just be right and you can be wrong. anyway, what does ann romney think about it? "done, completely, not only mitt

and i are done, but the kids are done, done, done. asked if there were any circumstances in which she would support him if he wanted to run, she said she hadn't been pushed to that point mentally, but that they would make the decision together. there we are, she's ready to make the decision. >> well, she has also said that right after the election, six months or so after the election, she said, if it were held today, mitt would run. >> i've said this before, hillary clinton is going to own the center left and probably in the end, get the nomination, the left. she'll move to the center, she'll do well in the center. for your party to beat her, they have to contest the center. they can't just hold the right and have a base election. you need to grab the center. that means a lot of suburban women who are on essential issues moderate or if not liberal.

how do you beat her with a rand paul, or rick santorum, or ted cruz? you need to have someone who can grab the center. >> republican primary voters don't say, what do we have to do to beat hillary clinton? >> why not? they don't want to beat her? >> rick santorum won 11 out of 30 states with almost no money. my point is, it wasn't they're sitting there and saying -- >> so you're saying the party is rational? >> i'm not saying that. >> irrational? >> they're stronger on the core convictions of the party itself -- >> the winnability argument -- >> [ all speak at once ] >> somebody's going to win, somebody will lose. hillary has 55% of the vote. >> we have to get back to the

major problem with mitt romney. why would he be a better candidate? he lost on some of the bigger issues, demographics, which are still an issue, and can he relate to average people on the economy. >> and that's not going to change either. >> so i don't know why he would be a stronger candidate than a name out of the hat here. >> i think people like people more after they've been beat up a little bit. >> the reason obama became president, hillary clinton was seeing too much of the center and obama beat her, why? i want to know, who did you vote for president? >> i voted for w., the first time. when he said we were going to have a humble farm policy. gore was going after the neocon vote. i did not want a hawk as president. i made a big mistake. [ all speak at once ]

>> i didn't know dick cheney was going to become the svengali. >> the round table, stay with us, the blame game begins, this is "hardball," the place for politics.

i've got a political prediction for you. you're facing a divided government after the election and in all likelihood after the 2016 election. we're looking at a congress cut nastily down the middle. my book shows how left can fight right and still get things done.

i know, i was there. and we'll be right back.

we're back with our round table. amy water, john greybanger and amy wurtenburger. we could see up to 10,000 new cases a week. and, as the disease itself

spreads, so does the fear. yesterday, the democratic national campaign committee released a web banner ad pointing out the cuts proposed by the republican-controlled house would have hurt the center for disease control's ability to fight ebola. the agenda project wraps this up even more. let's take a look at it! the cdc says its discretionary funding has been cut by $585 million by 2010. >> cut. cut. cut. >> our budget has been flat since 2003. responding to an emerging infectious disease threat, this is particularly damaging. >> cut. cut. cut. cut. >> apology note.

there you go. john, is this going to be a political issue? >> first of all, this is ridiculous. number one. number two, they said it's been flat since 2003 or 5 or whatever, they do understand that a democrat has been in the white house, there's been a democrat-controlled senate and even a democrat-controlled house. they tried against joanie ernst. she's going to privatize social security. darn it, that didn't work. >> saying obama wasn't strong enough, that's why we have an ebola case in this country.

>> he deserves a lot of criticism in a lot of areas. when you have a crisis like this in a country like ours, the one thing we've always done is pull together. people understand there's some things you do not politicize. >> how about the refusal to allow the sitting of a surgeon general. >> i'm not getting that out. >> you're in it right now. why don't republicans allow there to be a surgeon general? >> how many votes you think that thing will have? >> i think we need leaders. and i think we need a surgeon general. >> you're asking me about playing that particular ad. and it's ridiculous. >> the horse is already out of the barn. right now, they want to cap the horse. and the horse being how this disease was created or there is not enough money at the cdc to do more about it. it's coming into this country

and they do not feel confident that there's government agencies helping to stop it from coming into the country. >> so the republican public, 66%, say don't let those people come over here. >> there's a lot of fear about this issue, as you say, in the polling. fear works in ads. the only surprise is that it took them this long. i mean, this is going to be news. >> would you do that if you were assigned there right now? >> yes, i would. i'd be happy to go. i would. my daughter wanted to go for christmas. >> to liberia? >> she wanted to go work in ghana over christmas. no. but i think that this is not a bad ad except for the end, you know. to use the issue, i think is valid. but the dead bodies and cuts kill, this's too far. >> well, let's face it. if you notice, they put this out against a lot of different candidates, but they say it's only going to run in a small number of states. that tells me they don't have a lot of money and they're doing this for the shock factor so

that we're sitting here talking about it. >> the republicans are going to say -- >> are they going to challenge with legislation? >> no. no. >> they're not going to do it, right? >> i don't think so. >> if this president said this is an emergency, we're bringing everybody together, and i don't see that happening. >> i think that's a bold step. thank you, amy, and thank you, chuck and thank you melinda. we'll be right back after this.

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let me finish tonight with pope francis. i don't live in some religious ghetto. most of the people i work with, most of my friends are not catholics like us. so i've got a good reading on the new pope who is as much a breath of fresh air as when he first arrived. people like him. they like his whole approach to life and faith both. they like his confront of a diverse world, people of different religious belief, backgrounds and sexual orientations and identities. he's lived his life in the real world. he realized that marriage between the wrong people can produce horror. that the victims of such a marriage need the presence and company of their faith more than the happy couple. he realized, i can only assume that based on what he's doing that people who are gay or bisexual or transgender what a rich spiritual life like all of other god's children. it's his job to unite it in common hope and shared respect. and not since john xxiii have we brought a hope who's braught us

both mutual respect and hope. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. all in 101414 >> tonight on "all in." >> kentuckyconnect is a web site. >> mitch mcconnell tries to have his state's popular health care exchange and eat it, too. tonight, chuck todd on the marquee senate race and paul cruben on obamacare. then, as president obama urges the world to do more to contain ebola. >> the transmission of this disease, obviously, directly threatens all of our populations. >> the father of the nbc freelancer currently being treated for the disease joins me tonight. plus, the mystery of the 50,000 voter registration applications in georgia. and we'll check in with the governor's race in vermont.