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tv   Caught on Camera  MSNBC  October 19, 2014 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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open an optimizer plus account from synchrony bank. service. security. savings. synchrony bank engage with us. they say i was born into the wrong body. >> i've always been male. just don't look like it. >> they look down and their bodies tell them they're boys or girls, but their minds tell them otherwise. >> i've always wanted to become a female even when i was 5 or 6. >> male to female, female to male. changing gender is not just about changing your body. >> the only type of surgery i really want now is a mastectomy. >> i don't have one word that explains my gender. >> it's always confusing, sometimes torturous. >> i was hospitalized three times for depression and suicidal thoughts.
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>> who would want to put themselves through this agony of being someone that you're not? >> i clearly believe that people who are transgender, they're born in the wrong body. two, one, two, three, four. >> in almost every way, jake is a typical 16-year-old boy. he plays drums in a band. he's learning to drive. >> i'm a mean freeway driver. >> and he's very close with his parents. mom, peggy, is a therapist. >> what do you want? >> but there's one thing that differentiates jake from other teenage boys.
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he began his life as julia. >> my name's jake and we're going to go in my room. and that is my room. well, i knew i was different probably when i was, like, 5. because a bunch of my friends growing up were all females, but they would all do things like play barbies and play house and, you know, typical girl stuff. and they'd always say to me, okay, you're going to be ken, or you're going to be the dad. my room's been transitioning as i've been transitioning. it was pink for, until i was, like, 10. and then i switched it over to this blue about eight months ago.
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>> as far back as jake can remember, there was always inner conflict regarding gender. >> i remember once when i was like 4, i went up to my mom and i told her that there was a boy living inside of me. >> he actually came to me and, very honestly, as kids are, just simply said, mommy, i think i'm a boy. and that was it. off he ran. >> when i was 11 years old, i kind of started having crushes on girls. so then i was like, i'm going to tell my mom i'm a lesbian. i told my mom i was a lesbian at like 3:00 in the morning or something when i was 12. >> it was so much more about it, i think, that she was holding inside of her, that she wasn't really ready to talk about yet. >> the turning point came when 13-year-old julia met a female to male transman at a play. >> and i was like, you know, what kind of, like -- he's a guy, but he's kind of like a
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girl. so i started to talk to him a little bit, and i found out he was transgender. and i didn't know what that was, so i went home and, thank god for the internet. i looked it all up and i got some crazy pictures and i got some all right pictures. and i was like, wow, i kind of feel like this. >> jake finally got up the nerve to come out to his mom as transgender. >> i was like, what am i doing? i didn't tell her transgender exactly, but i was like, i think that i should have been born a male. >> jake's parents allowed him to begin transitioning to male when he was 15. >> do i wish it could be different and that your life could be a little easier? of course. as a parent, that's what you hope for your kid. they want their life path to be as simple as possible. but it was what it was. >> the trans people that i know, they all know from a really
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young age that they are the gender that they are inside. and they also know that that doesn't match the body that they were born into. >> cris beam wrote a book about her experience teaching transgender teenagers in los angeles. >> and when the problems come in is when families or teachers start telling them, oh, no, you can't play with that, or, that's not your bathroom, or you can't wear that dress, and conflict arises. >> you might think being transgender requires sexual reassignment surgery, but simon aronoff, a female to male transgender activist says it's not that straight forward. >> it's something in your heart, it's something in your brain. it's a really deeply, internally held sense of self and gender identity that doesn't require the presence of a penis or a vagina to make a man a woman. >> my name is jess. i'm a 20-year-old student here at massachusetts college of
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arts. i'm studying photography. and i identify as a gender queer androgynous person. >> if anyone embodies the point that gender isn't just about body parts, it's jess. born female, jess now identifies with both genders. as for pronouns, jess goes with "he," at least for now. >> i'm pretty clear with how i feel about myself, but when i leave my house and i have to fit myself into a world that expects you to be either male or female, either straight or gay, either this or that, it takes some explaining to get people to where i'm at. >> jess' journey from female to gender neutral didn't happen overnight. it's been an ongoing process, beginning with jess coming out as gay at age 13 and later questioning his gender at 16. >> it was my last semester, or
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whatever they call it in high school, but my last few months of high school when i really started thinking about it and started to, like, identify with the word "trans" and identify as something other than just a dyke. >> in the dark room at mass art, jess has plenty of time to reflect. >> for some it was a clear cut decision. but you for me, it was more of a -- it took me a while to federal government out which parts of the transitioning process i wanted and which i didn't. >> jess was what most people would call a tomboy. had brothers, wanted to play with the boys, do that kind of thing. when jess needed to wear a bra, she would sneak in the shed, take the bra off. >> as jess was going through his own period of self-explanation, his mother, diana, was going through hers. >> find the one where you had chicken pox. >> when jess was seven, diana broke up with jess' father and
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began dating woman, which jess says created an atmosphere of support. >> my mom disowned me when i came out to her as a lesbian, and i knew that would never happen with jess no matter what happened. because jess to me is still the same person, whether there's breasts on top or not. >> jess' solution to the gray area he calls gender was to have a radical mastectomy, a removal of both breasts. for his project featuring people in the transgender spectrum, he photographed his surgery with his mother literally by his side. but that's where the surgery stops for jess. he's not interested in taking male hormones, whose affect would be permanent. >> i don't want to take hormones. i don't want to transition. i live my life in a gender neutral space that i kind of have to navigate depending on each situation that i'm in. when we come back, unlike jess, jake is opting for surgery and male hormones. but will the world come to see him as a teenage boy?
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>> actually, your chest is shrinking down better than i thought it would. and a look at the young people left behind, rejected by their own families with heart wrenching results. >> there's a lot of shunning, there's a lot of people being thrown out of their houses. >> when "born in the wrong body" returns. to be on verizon. one: verizon's the largest, most reliable 4g lte network in the country. that's right america. with xlte in over 400 markets. two: and here's something for families to get excited about. our best ever pricing with double the data on select plans. and three: you can now get our best ever single line pricing starting at $45. so get all this now, on the network ranked #1 for data performance nationwide. verizon.
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my name is angelika christina torres, supposedly, as of today. >> angelika has been waiting for this moment for years. she's legally changing her name, from the one she was given at birth, which she prefers not to publicize, to angelika. a change of name doesn't mean a change of gender, but it's a step in the right direction. >> i'm actually headed to the village voice offices to go pick up the paper, because i was told
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that my name change would be in the paper today, which makes it legal. oh, my god. i see my name. i feel like framing it. i'm ecstatic. i don't really know what to say. >> a native new yorker, angelika is struggling to make a life for herself. she's been on hormones since she was 18. she has a family, but relations are strained. >> my life, in a nutshell, basically, i was born into the wrong body. i grew up not really knowing or understanding that. had to come to terms with that and learn that on my own. i went to a catholic, you know, school from first grade all the way to eighth grade, and i was
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hospitalized three times within those years for depression and suicidal thoughts. >> like so many transgender teens, angelika used to cut herself with household objects, leaving permanent scars. >> i would use scissors, knives, i even used a protractor once. the cutting was basically a way of, like, releasing my pain and my anguish and my sorrow through blood. like, it was like my pain was just leaking out. it was just, like, disappearing. >> angelika says she's known something was off about her gender ever since she was a toddler. >> like, i looked in the mirror, and i was like, and i asked myself, why do i feel like a girl inside but i'm not physically a girl? like, it didn't make any sense to me.
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>> by 11 years old, she came out to her mother as gay. at 14, she was attending a special high school for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender teens. but still afraid to tell her family she was transgender, angelika would get on the subway as a boy and walk into school as a girl. changing her clothes along the way. >> we thought, okay, he's going to be gay. big deal. we never expected this. this is the part that i think has really shocked us all. >> angelika's adolescent was turbulent. her mother says they tolerated many incidents over the years. the straw that broke the camel's back, when her boyfriend came by for a visit, he didn't know she was technically a boy. she hadn't told him that. angelika wasn't there, but her
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mother was. >> my mother was like, oh, he's not here. so that caused him some confusion. so my mom caught on and basically made a story, oh, i meant to say, she's not here, to that effect. >> angelika's mother chastised her for deceiving the young man. then gave her an ultimatum. she said, cut your hair or get out. >> she said, i'm not losing my husband over you. so she took me to the barber and cut off all my hair. i cried the entire time. i was inconsolable in that barber chair. >> her mother that day, when she saw the first scissor cut, the first drop of the air fall, and
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you know it's true, she handed the money to the person and walked out. she was in tears. at that very moment, she realized, i've made a big mistake. as mothers, we all make mistakes. bringing up our children, we all make mistakes. because you guys don't come with a little handbook. and there are things that we do that we pay for the rest of our life with guilt. >> i'm alex lott. i'm 18, currently going to the university of virginia. >> in some ways, alex's story is a mirror image of angelika's. catholic school, self-doubt, self-mutilation, and finally, self-acceptance. but alex is going in the other direction, female to male.
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alex is the first openly transgender student in the history of uva, where he plays rugby on the women's team. >> for him to play on the men's team would be suicide. just because he's built so like a girl. he's got girl muscles and girl shoulders, and he would get murdered. >> i think a lot of, like, the reason i was accepted is because living out on your own, not under your parent's direction all the time, and you're not around the same people every day, the same classes, in the same building. but the rugby team definitely helps. rugby is one of my favorite things to do at uva. >> as early as the second grade, alex used to dream of being a boy and pray it would come true. >> needless to say, you know, it never happened. when i woke up in the morning, a lot of times i cried because i looked down and saw that i still
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had a girl's body. that's my kindergarten yearbook picture. it's okay to be a tomboy if you're a girl and you like playing sports or you play with gi joes, but it's only okay up to a certain age. then you're supposed to start growing out of it. >> as a sophomore in high school, alex came out as gay, but something still wasn't quite right. it would be another two years before he came out as transgender. he broke the news in a letter to his family. >> when my mom read the letter, i was still on my way to getting my hair cut and i was then on my way to a friend's house and she, yeah, she sent me a text that said, um, you know, i love you and she asked me to save a bit of my hair to remind her. >> alex has not yet started "t," testosterone, so he still has feminine traits. and he's not planning on having sexual reassignment surgery, so you might wonder, why change genders? why not remain a very masculine
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lesbian? >> that's a really funny question, because my grandfather, before he passed away, asked me the same thing. why couldn't i just be a normal lesbian. which was really sweet of him. so it's really not an option for someone to just say, oh, i'm just going to be a butch lesbian, if they're truly transgender. it's not about who they want to date, but who they are inside. >> when we come back, one of the biggest challenges of being transgender, when do you break the news. >> telling a guy that you're interested in him, that is interested in you, that you're trans sucks. and an underground subculture that has become a safe haven. the ballroom scene. >> they find each other, they network, and we all become one big family. when "born in the wrong body" continues. at do i do? you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock.
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>> jake has known he wanted to be a boy since he was a little girl. >> the funny thing about this picture, i was wearing a girl's shirt -- >> at 15, after two years of therapy, and after binding his breasts, jake's parents and doctors gave the los angeles teen the go-ahead to transition, not just mentally, but now, physically. >> transitioning just means moving from one sex to another. it's a whole sort of mixed bag. some people want something, some people don't want things. you can pick and choose. >> first jake started taking testosterone. >> i started sprouting little hairs like all around my face. >> a month later, he took a dramatic step. he went to dr. gary alter, a renowned plastic surgeon in beverly hills, who removed jake's breasts. >> hello. how's it going, jake? >> good. >> it's going good. let me see. >> prior to having the surgery, i need psychiatrists and/or
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psychologists to give the approval for him to have the operation. >> what led me to the decision was when i realized that this was not a passing fad or a phase. it was truly 100%, j. was transgender. >> what i saw, for example, in my book, the kids that made it were the ones that had some form of parental support and love. the ones that didn't were the ones that didn't have that. and you see that across the board, transgender or not. >> across the country in boston, jess was also born female, but unlike jake, jess is living in a gender gray zone. he had a radical mastectomy, but does not want to take male hormones. his mom, diana, is fully supportive. though it took her some time to get used to changing pronouns. >> well, i say he.
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it took me a while, and then i, sometimes, get a little cranky if people say she. >> jess' photographic work focuses on the transgender community, beginning with his own top surgery and branching out to people he's met across the u.s. people who were born one gender are now another or, like himself, are somewhere in between. >> this is gena and sam. they're partners. she's a trans woman and her partner, sam, i'm not exactly sure how sam identifies, but somewhere in the gray area as well. >> my goal is to, like, document the lives of transgender people in a way that shows, you know, in some ways, we are like everybody else, but in other ways, we live a very different experience in the world. so i kind of ride that line in the middle. >> unlike the transgender people we've already met, who have at least some degree of family support, there are those who have little or none at all.
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and are compelled to find another type of support system altogether. >> i have five of them. >> you have five. >> we all have five. >> 25-year-old deasja is part of a social subculture of the gay and transgender world known as the ballroom scene. for decades, ballroom has provided a safe haven for young people living on the fringes of society. >> i don't work, i don't -- only if i have to eat. yeah, i have. yes, i have. it was a tough road. being on my own and stuff like that and living and trying to find a place to do all this stuff. i mean, the way i see it is that, i know people who don't actually want to talk about it and people don't actually, like, want to say, oh, it's a bad thing or whatever, but the way i see it, a girl's got to eat. >> deasja was raised as a boy by her grandparents in new york
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city. she knew she was gay from an early age. she didn't know she was transgender until attending the greenwich valley halloween parade at age 14. >> i was with a couple of my friends and we were all guys at the time. and i'm like -- they're like, look at that, that's a man. and i'm like, no, that's not a man. they're like, yeah, that's a man. and i was flabbergasted. and i was staring at her the whole night like this. and she was like, why do you keep looking at me. and i was like, i didn't know. and she was like, yeah. and she had breasts and everything and all this other stuff, and i looked into it. and from there, it was all over. >> after that parade, deasja knew she wanted to be a woman, not just on halloween, but all the time. she started taking hormones at 15 and said her family's acceptance has been iffy.
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deasja believes the caucasian counterparts have an advantage. >> they go through the therapy with parents that pay for it. they have this money and financial background for things like that. so most of the black ones that you meet, they have to be out here. like, nine times out of ten, they go for drugs and everything else. and this is like, black and latinos. >> a lot of people have back stories that are grim. and i think that probably is part of what it's all about. and certainly, you know, if you scratch the surface, there's a lot of ugliness. >> when we come back, inside the place deasja calls home, the house of la perla, a national sorority of sorts. >> in sorority, it's the elite, it's the select. and here it's the opposite.
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shear what is happening this hour. the peptd gone today saying it's forming a 30 person medical team to help civilian health workers in the event of future ebola cases. if begins training within a week and will only be deployed within the u.s.. the cruise ship returned to texas today. one of the passengers handled a blood sample but tested negative for ebola. now back to "born in the wrong body."
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what time are we meeting? >> 5:00. >> juan la perla is a new jersey entrepreneur who is gay, but not transgender. he founded the house of la perla, part of a larger underground scene known as ballroom. the best way to describe ballroom, it's like a national sorority system, with chapters all over the country. >> except in a sorority, it's the elite, the select. and here's it's the opposite. i wouldn't say they're misfits, i would never say that. but i would say they're people who don't have another outline. "new york times" reporter guy trebay has covered the ballroom scene for decades and has gotten to know many of its participants. >> they're put out of their family's houses, which is a big issue. and you can imagine being thrown out of your house as a teen,
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like all the way thrown out, and don't ever come back, because you're just too weird and you want to wear eye makeup. >> ballroom houses are known for famous fashion houses like prada and dior. most people don't actually live in these houses. they just come to hang out with their ballroom friends. they call them brothers and sisters. and most here consider juan la perla their father. >> transgender kids form these alternative families with one another, often because they're own biological families or families of origin have thrown them out or their own families have become so intolerable that they've run away. >> they're trying to find a support system that will accept them for who they are, so they find each other, they network, and we all become one big family. >> the ballroom scene isn't just a safe haven. it's also a party scene.
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revolving around events that feature fierce competition in categories like butch queen, femme queen, and miss thang. the parties begin in the middle of the night and last until morning. >> the first thing that happens at the balls is you wait a really, really long time for them start. >> around 2:00, 2:30 is when the ball will finally get started and get under way. it will go until about 5:00, 5:30. >> these parties are serious business, requiring astonishing amount of preparation. transgender women like deasja take hours to put on their makeup and get dressed. tonight's big drama, and there always is a drama in this house, is about a pair of white pants that seems to have gone missing. >> nobody know where is the white pants are. >> they're always fighting over a pair of pants, you know.
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let's face it. >> oh! >> you know that you put them in the washer? >> they love each other, but they continue to argue with each other. with a bunch of hormones raging at the same time. sometimes it can get nasty. sometimes it can be very nuts. >> it's 1:30 a.m. and juan is starting to get nervous. the ball has already begun and they've only just started padding one of the members of the house of la perla to give her more feminine curves. the house is in new jersey. the party is across the river in midtown manhattan. finally, at 2:00 a.m., the house of la perla piles into two taxis and head to a club in midtown manhattan. >> tonight you're going to see a bunch of illusions. you're going to see gorgeous
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women who at one time were men or still are men. you'll see a bunch of performers. >> it's like a party, in a way, but with a much more serious purpose. it's incredibly important for people to win in categories, and they win prizes and respect, which seems to be the thing people are mostly vying for. >> i know i have a biological family, but what i also know is that some of them are not accepting of my lifestyle. i love this. >> like so many transgender teens, angelika felt she needs to look beyond her family for support. one of her closest confidants is katherine linton, a lesbian filmmaker. she calls katherine her papa bear and sees her as a parental figure. >> what i discovered is with
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many of these kids, who aren't kids anymore, they don't have adults in their lives. so if anything, i have been -- she calls me papa bear, because i am -- i'm hard on her. i tell her she's got to get a job, got to get an apartment, got to work really hard, got to really -- because no one's going to give it to her. >> maybe had we been prepared for it. maybe if she would have, early on, told us, i feel like i'm living in the wrong body, we could have had a better understanding and handled everything differently. >> when we come back, dating's hard for any young person. add transgender to the mix, and things start to get really complicated. >> there's no instruction manual. i didn't get one, he didn't get one. you just kind of figure it out. >> and who's having surgery and who's not? you might be surprised. >> i think the biggest
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16-year-old jake is still transitioning into a male. he recently had his breasts removed, but the decision to have genital altering bottom surgery is far more complex. >> when i started off transitioning, i was like, no, never, ever. it wasn't like i'm totally getting rid of something i already had, because it's still there, just hidden. it's now more like an 80% chance i'll have it in the future. >> genital surgery to go from male to female is fairly straight forward. create a vagina by inverting the penis.
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but going the other way, creating a penis for female to male transmen is still relatively primitive. >> it's just not there in terms of cosmetic, appearance, and function. some transmen do opt to have it to make themselves feel more complete. >> here's a good one. stuffing my face. >> there's one other surgery transmen can have. a hysterectomy, removal of the female reproductive organs. >> from the beginning of my life, i guess it starts here from the beginning of jake's life. >> jake hasn't decided whether he wants that. for now, he's content with breast surgery and taking testosterone. >> we are at children's hospital. i'm getting my shot, which i get every two weeks. and it's fun, but it hurts. ready for me now? did i grow? >> yeah. >> no, it didn't hurt. >> when do you want to come back?
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>> whenever you need to see me. >> dr. marvin belzer is medical director of transgender services at children's hospital, los angeles. he says the biggest obstacle in treating transgender kids is prejudice in their society. >> the biggest point that i think people don't understand, they think there's a matter of choice in this. and after having dealt with this and dealt with hundreds and hundreds of patients, the patients we're talking about are the ones who were born this way. this is who they are. there is really no going back. >> we are going to the callen lorde community health center where i get my hormones every two weeks. >> for angelika, every appointment to get injected with female hormones is a happy occasion. >> it feels like i'm continuing my ongoing process into womanhood. it's literally a pain in the butt.
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like literally and metaphorically, but it makes me feel good. >> angelika is anxious to have sexual reassignment surgery, but for now it's just not a reality. >> had i had the money, i would definitely have the surgery. and people always ask me if i'm afraid of having it. and the answer is no, i'm not afraid of having it, because it's who i am. >> then there are the people who are so desperate to change their look and so unable to come up with the means to do it, they simply take matters into their own hands. on several occasions, deasja has engaged in a highly risky practice. getting injected with industrial-grade silicone all over her body, but not by a certified plastic surgeon.
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>> what happens is, you'll hear about a doctor's wife from florida or somebody who's a vet who knows how to do it or something like this. and she'll show up and rent an apartment for two days and do a whole bunch of young woman. >> they call it getting pumped. the first time i got pumped was on my 21st birthday? no, i think it was my 20th birthday. and i had $150. am i supposed to be saying this on tv? am i supposed to be saying this on tv? well, hey, who cares. i gave this lady $150 and she gave me an a cup of silicone. so, but, over the years, i've gone back and gone back and gone back. it's real silicon, it's just not in a bag. >> it's the kind that people -- >> industrial. >> were you scared? did you know about the risk? >> no. but we've all got to die one day. >> it's cheap, and it looks good. and they're young, that's why they do it.
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>> alex has his own way of dealing with his body. he hasn't started hormones yet and he hasn't had any surgery. although he does hope to have a mastectomy one day. all of which leaves him physically still female. part of his daily routine involves ways to mask that. >> the first thing i put on is an under armour shirt. and after that i put on my binder. it's a lot safer than binding with an ace bandage, and then sometimes gel my hair. >> this is probably a very personal question and you don't have to answer it, but do you pack? >> yep, i do. >> a packer is a silicone prosthesis. it's essentially something that transmen might use to create a bulge in the crotch. >> one time i accidentally left it at home after coming home for the weekend, so i immediately
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called my sister, as soon as i realized it, saying, please, god, if you see any clothes on my floor, pick them up and throw anything that is associated with them into my closet, and i will tell you later. she asked me if i had any drugs stashed in my pants that i needed to get rid of, and i didn't. but my mom actually found them first and she never mentioned it, which, thank god, because that's an awkward conversation. >> i think it's a misconception that the genitals make the man or the woman. for transgender people, that's not the case. when you think about it in your day to day activities, you really don't know what someone looks like under their clothes. so for us, we may opt to have genital surgery, we may not. but that doesn't deter us from living in the gender that we feel that we are. >> when we come back, jake gets
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advice from a male therapist who used to be a female. >> like, he asked questions sometimes about girls, and i'm like, dude, you're so asking the wrong person. >> and jess and his friend on the day to day realities of straddling the gender fence. >> i'm still trying to get over my bathroom anxiety. >> we agreed on procenou in chls for me. what's your favorite kind of cheerios? honey nut. but... chocolate is my other favorite... oh yeah, and frosted! what's your most favorite of all? hmm...the kind i have with you. me too.
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great. this is the last thing i need.
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[ hand ] seriously? the last thing you need is some guy giving you a new catalytic converter when all you got is a loose gas cap. let's take this puppy over to midas and get you some of that good old midas touch. hey you know what? i'll drive! i really didn't think this through. [ male announcer ] get the midas touch maintenance package including an oil change for only $24.99. and here's a deal, use your midas credit card and get a rebate of $25. oil. tires. brakes. everything. trust the midas touch. it's a fresh approach on education-- superintendent of public instruction tom torlakson's blueprint for great schools. torlakson's blueprint outlines how investing in our schools will reduce class sizes, bring back music and art, and provide a well-rounded education. and torlakson's plan calls for more parental involvement. spending decisions about our education dollars should be made by parents and teachers, not by politicians. tell tom torlakson to keep fighting for a plan that invests in our public schools.
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who would want to put themselves through this agony of being someone that you're not? would you yyou not give anythin the world if you were not born will way to be a regular guy? think of it. not as a girl. not as a girl. >> yeah.
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i mean the husband, the wife and the picket fence and this and that. they can't help what they are. >> the american psychiatric association considers transgenderism a mental disorder. a controversial diagnosis that upsets much of the transgender community. >> it puts trans people in an awkward situation where to get the treatments that they need, they have to withstand this medical diagnosis of having an illness. >> beyond coping with the stigma are the practical ramifications of such a label. insurance companies often use the psychiatric dyiiagnosis to deny paying for hormones and surgery. most patients believe they just want to correct the physical problems they say they were born with. which leads to the question, what makes people transgender? >> there is the idea of what is called the more money wash theory which is that in utero
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the fetus got washed with have a testosterone or estrogen. that's not been substantiated, but it's an idea. >> epg ti think trying to find cause of transgenderism or sexual orientation is really going down the wrong track. it doesn't really matter why people are who they are. it just matters that they are. and that they be treated with respect and are able to live to their full potential. >> to live up to that full potential, most young transgender people would like to have a social life just like their friends. but of all the obstacles for transgender people, dating can be one of the toughest. angelika can speak to that. >> telling a guy that you're interested in, that is interested in you, that you're trans sucks.
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i just have to say that as bluptsly bluptsly bluntly as i can. it sucks. and like a lot of guys that i like that i'm very attracted to physically, mentally like, you know, i'm just very attracted to them, and, you know, they're attracted to me until i tell them. until i confess that to them. and then it's a complete like 360 like they're just not interested after that. >> i personally would recommend coming out on a second date or something like that where it hasn't advanced to sexual contact or really intimate relations yet. >> 16-year-old jake is also november debating his way through the complicated world of dating and disclosure.
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one of his con if i dapfi dating and disclosure. one of his con if i dapfdants i therapist who used to be a female. >> there is no instruction manual. you just have to figure it out. you have to figure it out based on what you're comfortable with, but also what you want out of that relationship. what does that person in front of you mean to you and what is the risk worth. >> but where jake is interested in dating girls, daniel dates men. >> like he asked questions sometimes about girls and i'm like, dude, you're so asking the wrong person. i can't help you with that. i wish i could, but i just don't have a clue. >> back in boston, jess is tack taking pictures of his friend. robby transitioned to in his ca political as personal. >> i try to use bigger language
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as possible because i think the conversations are fascinating. people really liz there are more than two choices so it makes safer for jess to live in a blurry space. >> as robby tried to figure out where he wanted to fit in, society was also trying to federal government out what he was. sometimes to be musing results. >> i spent four or five years in that sort of blurry gender blurred space.musing results. >> i spent four or five years in that sort of blurry gender blurred space. pronouns would be flipped in the same sentence. they were both right. have you helped him yet? yeah, i got her order. . and it was funny for a while and then it was exhausting. >> i have no desire to be male. and if i did, that would be something i would have to grapple with. >> helping further the image that robby is a state man is the fact that he dates women.
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jess also dates women. but his taste leans toward people who have the same look he does. so where does that put jess in terms of being labeled? no where. and that's just the point. >> i've sort of defined my own gender for myself. i don't feel like i really fit neatly into any category, even the category of being trans. >> oh, my god, i see my name. >> i think my biggest regret is not doing it sooner. >> am i supposed to be saying that?
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when it comes to gender, girls are girls. boys are boys. end of story. or is it? a growing number of people say they were born in the wrong body. and they're doing something about it. >> it's definitely a penis. but you can't pee through it. >> three biological women make the transition into manhood. >> he's going to be the man i love. no matter what's between his legs. >> all going to the same hospital, and the same doctor, on the same day. >> i've been planning this surgery for actually years. >> converging on a dusty frontier town, considered the sex change capital. they've come to make their bodies match their minds. >> all right

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