on the street. we continue our conversation now with senator george baker, a member of parliament who is under lockdown inside. senator, thank you so much for all of your briefings. tell us again, if you can recap. >> okay. >> what happened, what you saw and how you got the word that you were in lockdown. >> well, what happened was that off in the distance, there was -- i thought it was construction. it was obviously shots that were fired. and then, and then about 15 minutes later, when i was trying to leave for my committee meeting in the center block, all of a sudden the police converge on the hall and say, no, you've got to go back into your office, you're not allowed to look out through the window. i have been looking out through the window to assist you and your program. but the doors are locked. i'm here alone just watching the entire thing unfold in front of me. >> now, before we go on, let me make sure you're safe, back from the window. we don't want you to be

endangering yourself, senator. >> oh, no, don't worry about that. >> and from what you've heard and seen, apparently, there were several shootings. we know also of recent briefings. you were recounting to my colleague tamron hall, tell me about the security briefings that you and your colleagues have had. to americans, of course, parliament hill in ottawa would be a very different experience. it is what we knew of pre-9/11 here in washington when the capitol was accessible to people. >> yes, indeed. the tourists come on parliament hill and don't see any of our officers, our security staff with guns. nobody has a gun visibly that you can see. in one portion of the center block, there are 20 security officers who wear plain clothing, so you think they're just tourists, but they do have guns. now, that's only in one-half of the center block. that's the house of commons half. the lower house.

then in the senate half, where i am, nobody has a gun. nobody has any weapon as a security officer when you go in through the door, nobody that you see has a weapon and nobody you don't see has a weapon. and but we did meet a couple of months ago. there was a special committee struck to discuss the matter of arming at least 20 of the security staff. and it was decided to do so. and in about three months from now, there will be security staff who would have weapons with them. >> and by the way -- >> i'm just being interrupted by a security officer. >> senator, i wanted to tell you that we are looking at live pictures with a s.w.a.t. team, with semiautomatics. so there are, obviously, as people are exiting the building. mark is on the phone now. >> okay. >> mark suse, tell us the latest situation on what you know in

terms of who might be at large. how many people are you still pursuing? >> well, we don't know the exact number of suspects right now. bebelieve it's more than one. and we're still actively looking for other suspects. that's why the city remains in loun. and we're asking people in the area to stay away from windows and rooftops so we can continue our search. >> and you're searching for more than one, as you say. what about the original shooter? >> that's it. we don't know how many shooters. we don't know which one was the original and so on. we're still actively looking for the shooters. >> the senator was describing some regalia or uniform. do you know -- describe what you're looking for. what kind of attire or uniform were these suspects wearing? >> again, we don't have confirmation on the number of suspects.

description is very vague. and we're actively looking for anything -- we've had description from wearing a scarf around their head to dressed in all black. we're looking at everyone. >> was anything said by the alleged shooter or shooters? do you have any other eyewitness accounts? >> i don't have any information as to what was said or if anything was said. we're still in the early stage of that part of the investigation. our main concern is to locate the suspects. >> thank you so much, mark, from the ottawa police joining me now from our newsroom is pete williams who has been checking with u.s. officials, as well, the fbi and others, counter terror officials. we understand that the u.s. embassy in that immediate area of parliament hill is on lockdown, as well. >> yes, a procedure that has been undertaken, we're told, just by where it is, not by so much what it is. although the fact it's a public building is one of the things

that has led to that. and the other thing, andrea, for the past really two weeks, there's been increased concern among canadian officials. some of it expressed publicly. some not. the terror threat level was raised up a notch in canada a few days ago. there was no public announcement of that. but it's a reflection of their growing concern about just this kind of thing. canadian officials were worried there would be these sort of low-tech attacks using guns or knives or in the case of what happened in apparently montreal two days ago, a car. to attack government facilities, soldiers. so there was concern they would attack canadian or u.s. targets within canada. that may be another reason why the u.s. embassy in canada is also on lockdown.

they've been following almost 100 people in canada with jihadist sympathies. people who tried to go to syria or succeeded and had come back. they were hearing a lot of this chatter. things were reaching a pitch, they thought. and now we're seeing the unfortunate consequences of what they were concerned about. the intelligence also said that they did not believe the individuals they were monitoring in canada had a desire or expressed a desire to cross into the united states to carry out attacks in the u.s. they were talking about carrying out attacks in canada against canadian and u.s. targets. and now we know, of course, that there have been at least three targets hit. the soldiers in montreal, the soldier at the war memorial today and an apparent attempt to target the canadian parliament building just less than 1/3 mile away from the parliament building in ottawa. >> and, pete, let me just bring in here, michael here onset.

you worked very, very closely with the canadian officials. and we know of the rising threats of isis. let's talk about what happened in montreal. and we're looking at earlier video shown during the initial lockdown after the first shooting and the apparent attempt on parliament. >> sure. >> the canadians had been very concerned about the isis threat, just like the u.s. has. and the home grown threat of terrorists within canada who might be inspired by the rhetoric through social media and elsewhere. and we don't have any indication yet that today's events are looked to that. but the event on monday epitomized what officials were worried about. and now an individual previously arrested by the police for suspicion of radicalization and trying to get to syria. he was ultimately released. and then on monday, he took a car, ran over two canadian soldiers, apparently targeting

them. one of whom ultimately died. the suspect was shot and killed by canadian authorities. now, there are lots of questions being asked now, if he was suspected of being radicalized, could he have been detained earlier? this is a common challenge for domestic security services. but this is exactly, again, what intelligence officials have been worried about. someone who hadn't been to syria but likely been inspired, fairly recent convert to islam who had been inspired to take action in that case targeting canadian military officials. and there are at least some similarities with what we've seen today, the potential for targeting canadian officials, canadian government buildings. i think all of those with the possibility is stated by the ottawa police of multiple gunmen. there's not doubt that u.s. and canadian counterterrorism officials are going to be concerned about identities.

>> the individual on monday was caught by the police about 40 kilometers. not very far outside of montreal. what is the status of that border? >> well, there's been very deep cooperation between the canadians and the u.s. sometimes american officials think the canadian officials aren't as aggressive as they should be and there are rivalries in the canadian domestic intelligence service. but they are very good and competent. that border is very well coordinated. >> do you need a passport to go back and forth? >> you do, either a passport or passport card. some sort of identity which is officially issued. and that was actually something that the canadians fought for

some time. complaining about the thickening of the border. there's enormous incentive to have that border be free and open for economic trade and tourists. pushed to make it increasingly difficult to cross to ensure people can come over, but we know who they are. and we can do intelligence checks on them. >> now, we should emphasize there is no known connection between what is happening now in canada and isis or isis sympathizers. but that is certainly a very large undercurrent. for top of mind, in fact. pete williams, three american teens, three young women underage from the colorado, denver, colorado, area, were stopped by the help by officials in germany. they had been missing from their parents and apparent ly gotten

from frankfurt and possibly trying to go to syria. >> yes, although, we should be careful to draw a distinction here. it may be the core of all of these things, there's the same sort of very broadly speaking desire. what we're told now is these three women, 15, 16, 17-year-olds from the denver area who took cash and got their passports from their parents. they were not like steely eyed jihadists. they were more caught up in the romance of it. and one of them may have been trying to strike up a relationship online with someone that she thought was in syria who may actually have turned out to have been in turkey. doesn't appear they'll be charged with anything for a couple of reasons. one is, as i said, this appeared to be something more on the side of a lark on the side of a

jihadist mission. and the second thing is, they're all underage and prosecuting juveniles in the federal system is a rare and complicated thing. they'd be charged with juvenile delinquency and they couldn't be held past their 18th birthdays. so while they continue to investigate it and look to see if these young women in colorado had any other connections with anybody in the u.s., it doesn't appear they're going to in any way prosecute. >> and chris jansing, b understandably, the president has been notified of this. what are you hearing from the white house? >> yeah, he's been kept up to date. i talked to a senior administration official who said he was in the daily briefing as all of this was breaking. he would have been with his national security adviser susan rice. and speaking of homeland security, lisa monaco, as well, homeland security adviser. and the whole relationship changed when homeland security was created after 9/11.

so that's a close working relationship that they have. but also, and while it's important to note, again, as you've been doing that there's no motive that's been ascribed to this. there has been heightened concern in canada, and that just happened on october 8th that canada would join the u.s.-led coalition against isis, and they agreed to take part in some of what was happening in iraq. they've contributed six cf-18s, fighter jets, crews, reconnaissance, aircraft. that has been very much top of mind at the white house in this relationship. the big story out of here today was supposed to be the start of the ebola czar. he has a meeting with him at 3:00 this afternoon and afterwards we'll get a camera in there and see if the president makes any comments, andrea. >> thanks so much, chris jansing.

joining me now from new york, mark help us understand the geography here. the war memorial is right across from the parliament hill. >> well -- >> talk to me about those locations. >> absolutely, andrea. this is the heart of ottawa. it's a city of 1 million people. it's at the middle of three busy streets. it's an intersection in the heart of ottawa. it is very close to parliament hill. what's interesting, it's actually directly across the street from the prime minister's office. the pmo in the block. that is in the building that's literally facing the war memorial. so were the prime minister to be working in his offices not in the houses of parliament, he would be right there. the pictures you're looking there at the post office are also facing that monument. and then if you go to the satellite view, you're seeing. so if you look at this view. those two lawns that, is the center block of parliament. on the left side would be the house of commons, the lower chamber, the elected chamber, on

the right side, the appointed chamber. that's the two semicircular lawns there. pedestrians have complete access to that lawn. it's widely open. a few years back, a greyhound bus was hijacked for a hostage negotiation that went on in 1989. these sorts of incidents aren't completely foreign to the psyche, but obviously something that the country prides itself in not having that horrible history of armed violence 6789 right behind it, that building is where the prime minister's officer is actually located. so the gunman, if he went here, he would've crossed that busy street, wellington street up on to parliament hill where you see that broad, the green roof. that is the east block of parliament hill. it has an east block, center block, west block. the east block is where the senators have their offices. he would've traversed that lawn to get to the center block that's labeled parliament

buildings there and to have gone in. and the video we've seen of the shooting was actually in the center corridor of the center block, which is really very, very close to the houses of parliament. where if they're in session, all the elected legislators would be sitting. >> and, if you can help us also understand how many people would be involved with these earlier video from inside, just when the lockdown and shooting were taking place. how many senators? how many members of the lower house? >> several hundred members of the houses of parliament, a little fewer in the senate, which is an appointed body. on any given day, they wouldn't all be there. they would tend to be there most often during question period when the prime minister is answering questions. it doesn't appear to me from what i'm hearing that the parliament, the house was sitting at that time. although, i don't know. but i would stress, this is a very heavily trafficked part of the city. tourists constantly visiting. these are the main attractions of the capital.

the american embassy, notably, is about two blocks to your right in that picture. not far from here built some number of years ago, and there was some considerable controversy about the security of that embassy being so close to other buildings, so close to public streets in ottawa. this is really the central tourist attraction, if you will, in ottawa is the houses of parliament, it is parliament hill. and so, quite certainly if this gunman made his way from the war memorial to the center block, he would've passed lots of tourists on the way who would have been scattering for cover. >> michael lighter is here with me, as well. as we reported, there was this incident on monday and the shooting of this driver who had run down two police officers. >> members of the military. >> two members of the military. one fatally, and questions being raised about the fact he'd been in prior custody, had been

released. and now there are going to be questions about, sadly, about the lack of security here. we heard senator baker on earlier talking about the fact they are unarmed on the senate block, not in the lower house at this point. and the senate was about three months away from having armed guards there, as well. they've had the kind of access that we can remember from years and years ago. >> well, it really was striking. i would fly from washington to ottawa when i was in the government and you'd go in and it felt very much like a pre-9/11 environment. a lovely, lovely spot as mark has conveyed. and the proximity of the u.s. embassy really only a few blocks away between two very, very busy streets. but ottawa is a relatively, you know, it's 1 million people, it's a relatively quiet place. markedly different levels of security between washington and ottawa despite our proximity and

our sort of very deep coordination on all of these issues. >> and the embassy in lockdown now, there's been controversy about the levels of security at u.s. embassies. particularly, there was the commission during the period after our embassies were attacked. >> right. >> to require more setbacks. this embassy in ottawa, new? >> it is relatively new. but it's a striking piece of architecture sitting, again, between two very, very busy thoroughfares. completely normal, i think, for them to lock it down. just the proximity alone, they would do that, even if it were farther away, i think, under these circumstances when they have a targeting of government buildings. really much better to be safe than sorry. no indications that the u.s. is being targeted in any way. but once you have major government institutions being targeted, the u.s. embassy is going to lock down in almost city around the globe.

>> we know there are about 70 ctv cameras in this area around the buildings. going through the video, so they are basically reracking that video to see what they can find and try to locate how many shooters, who they might be, whom are they looking for? better descriptions than they had from the initial eyewitness reports. we also know from the canadian officials that the prime minister is safe. we don't know a location, but we have a statement coming up from the prime minister himself. they are saying he is safe, not on parliament hill, is being briefed and will make a statement shortly. we should recap, also, the fact, michael, mark, from ottawa, joining us from new york. that canada has joined the coalition, has helped with as chris jansing was reporting from the white house, has helped with supplies, arms, with air support

against isis. what are you hearing? >> yeah, i think that's right, andrea. and you and i have been through these sorts of events. one thing we have to remind viewers, almost every first report will be wrong. and that's why the videotape evidence is so critical because if police can review that, they can figure out how many shooters and what's involved. >> and this statement from the office of the prime minister of canada. earlier today, there was an attack, our thoughts and prayers are with the families of those attacked. the prime minister is safe and not on parliament hill and being briefed by security officials. the police continue to do their important work and we are still gathering the facts, the prime minister will make a statement later today. details to follow. so we know, mark, that the prime minister is safe, he's being briefed. he'll have a statement later today.

>> i think one of the points i wanted to make here, there were a couple of important factors here. canada prides itself on being different than many other countries in how it approaches security in the presence of guns in the country. and i think each of these incidents prompt a lot of soul searching in canada about whether that is an appropriate approach going forward. and i'm sure this incident will provoke that. it's worth noting that it was 30 years ago this year that an armed disgruntled canadian forces soldier actually barged into the quebec national legislature, sat in the speaker's chair for hours armed, and ultimately was talked down from that chair in a very famous incident by the sergeant at arms all on television. so i think given the history of that sort of security breach in a legislative assembly, it'll provoke a great deal of thought about how this gunman apparently got so close to the house of commons. >> indeed. and i want to read a briefing

from our senior investigative producer. the police in canada have confirmed to nbc and msnbc that multiple gunmen were involved in a coordinated series of shootings in downtown ottawa near the war memorial. parliament where the shots were fired and the center mall were placed in lockdown as this hunt for suspects are continuing. so far, one soldier was reported shot, his condition is not being released. one gunman may have been shot and possibly killed. that is not confirmed. one other gunman is on the loose. multiple downtown ottawa buildings were on lockdown. in new york, increased patrols have not yet been announced according to john deenst of wnbc. -- despite local reports, everyone in the center is now safe and they claim that no shooting occurred there.

jennifer page says that the mall is on lockdown, they're cooperating with local officials, local police to ensure the safety of everyone in the mall. no motive yet has been ascribed to the incidents. however, in the u.s., police officials have told nbc they are sending officers to visit recruitment centers and military installations to introduce themselves to officers on duty. in los angeles, authorities are planning extra police patrols according to officials. however, there are multiple isis or isil threats. and officials -- is the chief ongoing terror concern. the police have publicly stated they were watching at least 90 known isil sympathizers. the fbi has been working closely with canadian officials as pete williams has been reporting as

both nations watch for threats against their citizens and residents. and some more background on isil in both the u.s. and canada. as nbc news reported last week, canadian officials have been concerned about the potential for knife and gun attacks in canada on both u.s. and canadian targets, including military personnel because of the nation's involvements both canada and the u.s. in the international fight against isis. earlier this month, prime minister steven harper in canada announced that canada would deploy six planes to bomb targets in isis-controlled areas. soon after harper's announcement, intelligence officials told nbc news that canadian authorities had heard would be terrorists discussing potential isis-inspired knife and gun attacks against u.s. and canadian targets inside canada. they've been concerned, according to the reporting that the attacks have a lower threshold from desire to action than relatively sophisticated attacks using explosives. that could shorten the time line between radicalization and overt

attacks. after radical islamic convert martin rulo used a car to run down -- confirmed he was one of 90 individuals the government had been monitoring. intelligence officials said they had not picked up talk of anyone crossing the border into the u.s. to stage attacks. they are stressing that possible attacks were at the aspirational stage. authorities in the u.s. have been working closely, though with the canadian counterparts. intelligence officials say the canadians are monitoring hundreds of people in canada who have either gone to syria to link up with isis and other islamic groups and returns or who have tried to make that trip. it indicates a high level of concern, a level of concern about aspirational attacks, not sophisticated attacks involving

explosives, but these are easier to launch because they are less complicated. and a high level of surveillance of the known people up to 100 or more who have aspired to go to syria, potentially through europe, through istanbul. but we don't know who else might be out there. >> and that tracks exactly what officials have been concerned with. and there are three aspects. i always loathe to look to terrorism for the first explanation. most of the time, it's not terror related. i think there are three indicators here that are going to make people very, very nervous. the first is the intelligence that you just talked about. there is a strong indication both in the u.s. and canada of small scale cells like these doing simple attacks like this. second, the report we got in addition from the ottawa police not that long ago that there were multiple shooters in here.

and multiple shooters suggest some more organization than might otherwise be. and third, the targets. you're talking about the war memorial, the parliament. these are really iconic government targets that are what exactly what isis and its propaganda has been pushing towards people to attack. so, we don't know, but there are at least three indicators there that suggest this is not your run of the mill shooting that you might see in many other cities. >> and softer targets, obviously, than those that would exist here in the united states, which are better protected. i wanted to bring in allison sander who is with cfra radio and on the scene near the police barricades there. allison, please bring us up to date as to what you are seeing. >> well, just a few minutes ago, police ran by us with their guns drawn as they chase what's believed to be one of the suspects towards one of the main shopping malls. now, we know that earlier in the day, this all started when a man who is described as having long hair and a bandanna covering his

face took out a long rifle and opened fire on a soldier who was standing guard at our national war memorial. that individual remains in the hospital with a gun shot wound to the chest. now, the suspect was seen with another person flowing towards parliament hill, which is just a matter of meters away. and it was inside parliament that the sergeant at arms who is the man responsible for all of the security in that building shot the suspect dead. so we know that there is one dead in this situation. and we know there are other shooters. now, police, again treating this very much as an active scene. we have been forced further and further away from where the initial shootings took place. gunfire has been heard, and police remain here on scene. some of them standing with their guns drawn. others taking cover behind their police vehicles as they try to not only find the suspect, but ensure that the safety of everybody is, you know, is top

of mind here. because as you could imagine, there is a fairly large crowd interested in seeing what is going on here. and so there's a lot of bystanders, and they're getting police officers saying, please, if you can, stay away from ottawa's downtown court. they have locked a number of buildings. the prime minister of canada was in parliament at the time. he is safe and was taken away to another location. but, there are mps who were still inside the building who were told not to tweak, not to call anybody until they got this situation under control. and that was hours ago. so police -- dozens of police vehicles on scene, and we're talking two police forces now. you've got ottawa police on the royal canada mounted police who are also in charge of this investigation. >> and, allison, just to clarify, you said the prime minister steven harper was in parliament. was parliament in session? or was he attending a meeting there? can you clarify that?

>> from what i understand, he was attending a meeting. that meeting obviously was brought to an end and he was ushered out of the building to safety. now, we know he was supposed to have an event in toronto this afternoon. however, that likely will be canceled in light of what's been going on here. and as i mentioned before, again, much of downtown ottawa under lockdown. we're talking public buildings also evacuated including the nearby shopping mall. there's also as far away as the university of ottawa had been locked down. police stations also in lockdown because they don't know how far this threat extends. >> allison, this is pretty extraordinary for any city, any capital city in particular and certainly for ottawa because this is normally an area of high tourism without guns, without a lot of security, at least visible security, correct? >> well, that's right. we know -- you see them all the time. you see the ceremonial guard walking by, you see mounties.

for the tourists, and this is a safe city, and it is known to be a safe city. something like this is so far out of the ordinary. and that's why you have so many people here who are just trying to figure out what is going on. >> allison sander, our radio reporter there, thank you so much. and we wanted to bring you also some eyewitnesss to what happened. just within the hour there in ottawa. >> well, we were working on the statue and heard a bunch of plops, and i thought it was just fire crackers going off. i look across the street, and there was a man with a rifle shooting at a bunch of people. so we, you know, i yelled at all my guys. guys shooting, everyone, you know, get down, get down. >> heard the first shot, took a look over, second shot, then i realized what was going on. and i kind of took a, you know, took cover. >> jim cavanaugh is a law enforcement analyst and, of course, a former atf

investigator. jim, when we're talking about weapons and what apparently happened today and the number of shooters they're looking for, what is the challenge now for the rcmp? >> right, andrea. well, the challenge is always to locate first the gunman and isolate them. and, of course, evacuate anybody who is nearby and eliminate the threat. you know, it's sort of telling that this guy could shoot the soldier and then run across the open ground toward the parliament building. i've been in that parliament building, and i've been there right on the steps with the rcmp when i was working for atf. and i know that the area's very small. but nobody should be allowed to be running across that open area toward a parliament with a long gun. and, of course, the -- to build on what michael said, i agree that we don't have a confirmed connection to international terrorism.

but the evidence is -- the threats on the web, the canadians' entrance into the war with their fighter jets just a couple of days ago, the running over of the soldier in canada a couple of days ago. and the eyewitnesss here who have been on msnbc talking about, you know, what they saw multiple shooters, and there's some hearsay testimony that was on the hour before that they had all in black and maybe a scarf on their face with arabic writing. so it's mounting indicator that it is an organized, small terrorist operation. it's not confirmed for sure. but madmen don't operate normally, although i could cite you a few cases, but madmen don't operate normally with partners, two or three, let's go down and kill everyone at the parliament. normally that's an organized criminal cell, anti-government operation. but in this case, likely internationally terrorist inspired.

>> and, jim, and michael lighter also with me here. i want to ask both of you about richard's reporting that there are officials going to recruitment centers in los angeles, for instance. to perhaps increase security or talk to people there. tell me what you think is the connection with military recruitment as a potential target, michael. >> well, i think isis has made quite clear target -- that's piece one. piece two is, we have a history where this is actually happened. 2009, carlos bledsoe shot and killed two army recruiters in little rock, arkansas. he killed one, shot a second, bledsoe had trained with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula in yemen, ultimately sentenced to life in prison. targeting recruiting centers. you then have this last piece of the canadian military officers struck by the car outside montreal on monday.

so it's a really obvious thing. and it's a good thing for the fbi and state and local officials to do. make sure that military officials who are, you know, recruiting across this country understand that by the nature of their uniform, they might well be an easy target or an attractive target to people who are radicalized by isis or al qaeda's message. >> and our own colleague kristen welker is reporting from the white house that at this point there's no change from the security level here in the u.s. it's too early to know what the motivation could be for this incident. but u.s. officials are, of course, in close contact with canadian partners continuing to monitor the facts as they come up. jim cavanaugh, in terms of the threats from isis against the u.s., canada, and coalition partners. this is an obvious attempt to punish and deter and frighten others from joining the coalition. >> exactly.

it's a guerrilla world war. we're in the midst of it. i would say it's smart money to go to recruiting centers, and to be a little more alert right now. you've got to stay ahead of these guys. you can't wait until the action happens. you've got to be a step ahead. warnings, they're sometimes subtle. smart money to send police officers to recruitment centers, more people on duty. government buildings. i always want to be ahead. i like to move a little earlier than some, maybe. >> and we've got more eyewitness reports. let's watch. >> just five, ten minutes ago, walking along the front of the memorial. i was just passing -- just over here, and all of a sudden just

heard a shot turned around and there was a guy with a rifle just around on the back corner, and just, pow. pow. and then i saw one of the other armed forces guys just running, and he came running, he barrelled over just ran right over. the other guy just dropped and then the other one ran over. i just started running at that. enough to look back to just dive underneath and then immediately called 911. >> the man who shot, what did he look like? what kind of weapon did he have? >> it was a rifle. like a long-barrelled rifle. long. i mean, again, i don't know what i'm supposed to say or not supposed to say. >> is this man dressed in uniform? >> no, he was dressed in civilian clothes with a hoodie

and like a -- a bandanna up to his -- i saw a bandanna. and -- >> anything you can tell us about the color of anything he was wearing? >> there's actually a guy with a perfect picture of him. one of the bystanders holding the rifle and everything. a perfect description. >> and mark, you're from ottawa, our senior vice president in new york. we can look at these pictures. how malls are being emptied. they are widening the search area. >> absolutely. the picture on the left is taken from the south looking up towards parliament hill and that appears to be the west block. you can see the police moving across. this is taken from a vantage point of three or four blocks south of the apartment buildings. the cfra reporter mentioned that the university of ottawa is in lockdown. that's looking at the right side map. that's off the map to your right. so clearly, this is expanding.

if you look at that oval-shaped park sort of at the center of the picture, the american embassy is the building to the right of that. that long, narrow building, that is the united states embassy. you can see this perimeter is expanding. clearly, the authorities are worried they haven't put an end to this yet or they're not sure they got everyone who was involved and they're concerned about that. >> and as you can see, they're talking to witnesses and some witnesses clearly have pictures and have other video evidence, as well. but what we're talking about from at least two descriptions that we've heard from eyewitnesss are someone with a long rifle, a long gun and a n bandanna over his face. michael, we're not talking about anything identifiable in any fashion as a uniform or an insignia. but this does appear to be coordinated. >> it appears to be. but, you know, and jim cavanaugh will recognize this, too.

there is almost nothing worse than eyewitness testimony in some of these situations. and that's why lots of this video, the photographs, that will be key. that will tell a very clear story. so, even the multiple shooter piece, which was told to us by ottawa police. that can be confused. you'll remember in the navy yard shooting not so long ago, reports of multiple shooters turned out to be just one. people get confused. they see officers. so right now, what we know sounds like civilian clothes with a bandanna. >> and jim cavanaugh, talk to us for a moment about guns in canada. the gun laws and the availability of rifles, obviously, hunting would be a very big activity in canada as it is in the united states. >> but canada has more strict gun laws than the united states.

there's a lot of hunting and rifle shooting, certainly, but the gun laws are more strict there than they are in the united states. we're more of an open system with our firearms. so they have more controls. but nevertheless, guns are available, clearly guns are available everywhere. and they've had horrible incidents, you know, with police officers shot. assault weapons and so forth. they have crime problems, not the problems we have because of population is so different. they might have 18 million or 20 million people. it's a different society from the size and the volume and the tradition of their laws. they're such great allies to us. this is heartbreaking for us to watch. but they're going to have to -- new day now in canada with security at the parliament.

they know. they've got to change now. this is not, you can't escape these attacks and if this turns out to be, i know we don't have the final word and it's not totally confirmed, but if it turns out to be internationally inspired terrorism, then they're going to have to really look at it, if it turns out to be the work of a madman, they're going to have to ramp up their security. >> and they are clearly our closest allies, closest and largest trading partners, nato allies, as well. charlie angus joins us now by phone. he was in the caucus today, he heard the shots, joining us on the phone. thank you very much for joining us. tell me where you are right now. are you in lockdown? or did you get out of the building, sir? >> thank you so much for your concern. we were in the center building of parliament this morning. we meet our caucuses in the center hall of parliament.

one door goes into the conservative caucus of the prime minister, the other goes into ours, the official opposition, the democrat with our leader. so we suddenly heard a whole series of gun shots. they sounded like they were right outside the door. these are old parliamentary doors. they're not steel doors. you realize how fragile they are. and suddenly you realize this is just like columbine. and what do you do? our members of parliament tried to secure the doors, people under tables. we heard a second series of shots. we knew this wasn't going away. and then a third series of sh s shots. then parliamentary security and security on the hill, they're like family. we talk every day. they were very worried. they said, we've got to get you out. they tried to get us down the hall as fast as they could. i was with a group of about ten mps, a number of younger mps separated from the rest. found ourselves in the middle of

the parliamentary precinct as the police and the army were coming on the hill. but we were okay and we're in a building right across the road watching the whole -- from our window. we're all in lockdown, but we're watching, and it seems to have been secured on parliament, but i can't tell you what's happening elsewhere in the city. >> can you tell me how many members of the caucus were with you when you were escorted safely out of the building? >> well, we had almost our entire -- >> there's about 308 members of parliament. so in our caucus, we have about 100 members. so we were all in that one room. three exits. and all of them basically lead back into the main part of the parliamentary building. so it wasn't the best place to be in when a gunman came, but fortunately we were all in it together. we got out of the side. they tried -- i think a number of us were moved into a tunnel that took them into a building.

my group got separated. that's just what happened sometimes in the chaos of it. but i'm thinking of our security on the hill. wonderful people people. they put themselves on the line to make sure we got out safe. >> and we were talking to senator baker earlier from the other body. and he said they were planning to have armed security on the senate side but it existed in your block. >> our security certainly to come in parliament, you can't get into the parliamentary side of the senate side. you have to go into a public entrance, but clearly someone tried to breach the center doors. . there are other security -- there will certainly be a revision and an examination of everything that took place today. and that will be good. what i really want to stress, though, for your viewers so that

people understand. parliament hill, it belongs to the people of this country. it's an amazing place. people come out and they do yoga. they do frisbees. allowing people come out, two or three protesters who are angry that want to protest something, we have to maintain this public place so people -- this is our democracy. we have to make it more secure, we have to ensure the crazies can't stop it. but we can't give into the fear. this place belongs to the people of our country. and we have to secure it, but we have to keep it. so that it is an open place for the people of our country to celebrate the protests, to come out and to be seen. >> charlie angus, if you could standby for a moment, that's such an important reminder, the balance, of course, that we've been struggling with here in the united states. >> certainly. >> between security and access. joining me on the phone is justin ling, currently in lockdown.

thanks so much for being with us. are you inside the parliament building? outside? where are you in lockdown? >> i'm inside. so the shooter basically reached the doors like charlie was saying in center block which is where the house of commons and the senate of canada are. i'm actually in that building. i'm on a different floor, but i'm a little far up. my office is actually not far from the hall of honor, overlooks the hall of honor a little bit. and that's where i walk through that hall of honor. i didn't today. but i'm in lockdown. not too far -- >> justin, i don't want you to be too specific about where you are right now until we know everything's secure, but if you can describe what you are able to see or what you know. are they still going, going door-to-door? what -- what can you see from your vantage point? >> we know they are going door-to-door. >> i'm not sure why -- i suspect

this building is very, very intricate and twisting hall ways. it's one of the reasons. two other active shooting locations and the possibility more could crop up. i suspect that's one of the reasons it's taking so long. kind of situation right now we're all, i think, waiting to see the s.w.a.t. team to come on and tell us everything's secure. >> and, from the pictures from the exterior from some of the interior pictures, this is an old building, it is a very large building.

>> across the street, it's the memorial where the first shooting took place where we know that one reservist canadian forces member. i don't have anything new on that. looks like she ran across the street to parliament hill itself. harder to get up to. at least one car was involved. that had abandoned those cars at the foot of parliament. probably a three or four minute walk up there. it's not quite clear how they made it that way. kind of open territory to the center block building. but evidently they did. that's basically what happened.

those are all on lockdown now. we p don't have a time line. >> canada had raised the domestic terror threat from low to medium tuesday because of an increased general chatter from i islamist organizations. this is according to the a.p. was there any increased security that you noticed when you went to work today in the building? after the attack on monday and yesterday, this morning, i did not see anything increased. we can assume there was more covert surveillance happening. we know for a fact that the intelligence agency were doing more investigations because they formed a list of 90 individuals they believed became radicalized and were capable of carrying out attacks.

they p probably -- and the security, of course, the security the threat level was raised, we know they're probably doing a lot more surveillance, a lot more active investigation. evidently, it wasn't enough, and this attack managed to be carried out. >> the u.s. military, tell nbc news that norad has gone on high alert posture. high alert posture as a result of the attacks in ottawa. navy captain jeff davis who was the spokesman, quote, we have taken appropriate measures to respond to the ongoing situation in ottawa. should it have an effect on aviation? north com officials said as of now, no fighter aircraft have

been scrambled in response to the situation and that any threat would have to be, quote, aviation related before norad would get involved. the north american aerospace defense command responsible against threats to the u.s. and canada. tell us what this means. >> it's part of north com, a northern command. i would not read into it too much. this is them saying we're watching this, coordinating everything with our counterparts. there's a canadian commander within north com and norad. it's a joint command parts of it. watching to see if there's anything broader and bigger. people shouldn't read into this too many. >> and we should just reset the table here. we're talking about multiple

shootings confirmed by nbc news from canadian officials. our closest ally, not only geographically, but this is an ally where the u.s. embassy is right there on parliament hill. just as the canadian embassy is the only embassy located at the foot of capital hill. built as a testimony to the close coordination and, in fact, some said it was because of canada's assistance. and there was a ceremony at the state department thanking the canadian ambassador at the time in tehran for hiding diplomats. there's no closer relationship other than great britain, but geographically, canada is as close as it can be. >> so much so, that sometimes makes canadians feel uncomfortable saying we're with you, but we are still independent.

the security relationship, the economic ties, unbelievably tight. and i would also stress americans also don't understand the sacrifice that canada has made over the past 13 years in supporting the global war on terror. >> in afghanistan in particular. >> canada has lost more soldiers pe capita in afghanistan than any other country in the world. >> i wanted to bring in charlie angus. first of all, just sharing with you that we are told from ottawa from the hospital that we can confirm that the ottawa hospital has received three patients, two of which are in stable condition, should be directed to the department of national defense. no further updates at this time from the ottawa hospital. but just to follow up on what michael was saying, how controversial has it been as a member of parliament and member of the opposition for you to be so engaged now in this war against isis and previously in

afghanistan, of course, and in iraq? >>. >> well, i thank you for this interest. and certainly, you are big cousins on the other side of the border. we are close on so many issues. we've been in debates here on the role canada should play in the terrible situation in iraq. our party was supporting the humanitarian efforts because this is what we've been asked by the iraqis and the kurds on the ground. these issues would come up. many years in kandahar. we lost a lot of men and women in kandahar. didn't turn us into an unsafe society. didn't turn people crazy. things happen. i think we need to look at the geopolitical issues, but we also need a context of what it is that makes our democracy strong. we don't know exactly what's happened here. we know the terrible killing of a soldier. beautiful little quebec town

with the college. that person was a local guy who became so-called radicalized. i think he may have adopted any manner of crazy theorys to back up whatever demons he was fighting. i do not want to do as a parliamentarian is allow that kind of craziness to deflect us from what it is that we should be doing as a country, what it is we should be doing as a democracy to keep our people safe, to keep our place, our country open. because that is the hallmark of what makes our democracy strong is that it is a place where people can be part of. that people can be heard. and people can dissent. and these from the discussions we're going to need. as i'm talking, i'm watching s.w.a.t. teams securing one of the top of the parliament buildings. i never thought this day would come, but we have to assume these days can happen. and we cannot be deterred by it. >> charlie angus, an important

reminder. and for you in lockdown there as a member of parliament. there was also an eyewitness recounting some of what happened outside. let's watch. >> we saw a man with a mask over his face, a scarf. blue pants and a black jacket and a double-barrel shotgun. ran up here and hijacked a car at gunpoint. didn't hurt the gentleman in the car, and took off toward the back and headed toward the construction. >> and michael, as we've been watching, charlie angus and some of the others we've spoken to who are in lockdown, members of parliament, reminding us it is a very special situation there. it is an open society. they have not experienced what we did in 9/11. and they have not resorted to the security procedures that we have here in washington, which many people believe are excessive at times. >> yeah, that's absolutely right. i think by almost any measure, canada has been more protective of some of the civil liberties

that are common between our countries, and they haven't been as forceful, and i think that's part historical, part tradition, and part of where the threat has really been focused. canada has seen a threat from terrorists abroad and domestically. but it hasn't seen the level of threat and damage that we did in the united states on 9/11. >> michael, thanks to you. and that is it for -- that's it for us for now. our coverage continues, ronan farrow, my colleague takes over. >> unfolding fast as andrea reported, we're following breaking news in the capital of canada. the u.s. military has just responded. we are hearing right now norad is in a posture of high alert. that's the language being used. they're saying that's routine for this kind of emergency over the border. but it is happening right now. this is all after three shootings in ottawa, less than a mile from each other, including the canadian parliament building. that forced that building into lockdown. take a listen to this. it's dramatic video shot earlier today inside the parliament.

>> dramatic stuff. a gunman shot dead after opening fire at that parliamentary building. a member of parliament tweeted this quote. mom, i'm okay. i'm in hiding. a canadian soldier standing guard at the national war memorial nearby was also shot in the second of those incidents, shots also fired finally at a shopping mall. police confirmed there are multiple suspects at this point. various reports of up to three. working on confirming those. the shooting comes two days after a convert to islam killed one canadian soldier and injured another in a hit-and-run. the prime minister is going to make a statement later today. we'll be watching for that. here at home, president obama's been briefed on the situation in ottawa. the white house official telling nbc news, there's no change t