the woods, living in a hole -- >> i'm going to have to hold it there, gentlemen, citing breaking news and thank god the families can breathe relief in that area tonight. clint and jim, thank you both. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. stay with msnbc for coverage. "hardball" starts right now. going to the mattresses. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews up in boston. the republicans are all of a sudden going at each other like rats in a hot tub. governor christie fighting with anyone in sight. acting exactly like a governor who'd stick his lieutenant governor on a hold-out mayor,

the bridgegate guy. ted cruz is attacking jeb bush, who is now doing what he wants to do in 2016. go one-on-one with hillary clinton. you got to love this stuff. two years ahead of an election, and they're all out there brawling already. rnc chair for a while and editor at large for salon. let's start with christie. on the second anniversary of hurricane sandy, he unloaded on a man for testing his handling of the recovery efforts. we showed part of the exchange yesterday. here's more of it. >> listen, you all know me. so if we're going to get into a debate here today, it's going to get very interesting and very fun, so, yeah, i understand. so, i'll be more than happy to have a debate with you, any time you like, guy, because somebody like you doesn't know a damn thing about what you're talking about, except to stand up and show off when the cameras are here. i've been here when the cameras aren't here, buddy, and done the

work. i was here when the cameras weren't here and did the work. so glad you had your day to show off, but we're the ones who are here to actually do the work. turn around and get your 15 minutes of fame, and then maybe take your jacket off, roll of your sleeves and do something for the people of this state. [ cheers and applause ] >> so we'll see. now, listen everybody -- what we -- [ inaudible ] >> and there's been 23 months since then when all you've been doing is flapping your mouth and not doing anything. you want to have the conversation later, i'm happy to have it. but until that time, sit down and shut up. [ cheers and applause ] >> yeah, any time you like,

bud buddy. any time you like. it's wonderful. absolutely. i'll tell you, there's about a thousand things i'll do tonight. going to dinner with you is about number 1,001. >> what do you make of that? that's unusual for a guy auditioning to be president. >> this is what he thinks people right. i watch that and he thinks that his crowd, his people love that. he's thinking about those debate audiences who cheered when -- talking about somebody dying without insurance. he's thinking of that rabid audience that likes to see people bullied and shut down. the day before he said to the public health nurse, who he was also bullying, hey, i don't care if you sue me, get in line, i'm used to it. this is the persona he thinks may win the republican base.

temperamentally, he's conservative enough, he's a big bully and he was having a good time there. it's not something i want in a president, but there are people who like it. >> are there people in your republican world that will like this sort of street-corner behavior? >> yeah, i think there will be a place for it. but i think a more broad audience of republicans, it probably would wear a little thin after a bit. and i think it probably has in some respects. republicans that i've heard from, who commented on this, you know, it's not been, wow, you go get them. it's been, like, really? telling the guy let's talk about it and move on. christie, that's his brand, i think joan is right. it's part of the public persona that he projects out there that has a resonance with a certain group of people, even among democrats and independents. but when you're talking about presidential temper, it's a different quality set they're looking for and i think christie is going to have to find that balance. because doing this in the middle

of a presidential campaign would fall very, very flat. >> yeah. >> it doesn't seem to be the perfect audition for somebody to end washington dysfunction. anyway, today he made no apologies for his sit down and shut up behavior. let's watch him today. >> if someone's going to stand up and i ignore them for a while and they continue to be rude and talk over me and other people, then i'm going to engage. and that's what the people of new jersey and people in the country have some respect for me. i don't look forward to doing that stuff, but i don't shrink away from it either. it's just another day at the ranch. rancho christie. >> i'm trying to figure out how he put together the public christie with a sliver of this bullying, but it's sort of acceptable to some people who grew up in the east coast, i think. and then what may be behind it. after seeing him in action yesterday, who doesn't think that gives you a vivid picture of what he was like when he told his lieutenant governor to go strong arm the hoboken mayor to

get that waterfront development approved or she wasn't going to get any money. that guy talks like the kind of guy who would say, put the pressure on this woman. let's look back and how the mayor described that encounter which she said came at the orders, according to order, the lieutenant governor was told to go put the pressure on her, the strong arm on her. let's watch it. >> the bottom line is, she came and she made a direct threat to me. she came, when the lieutenant governor comes, pulls you aside in a parking lot and says that these two things are connected, i know it shouldn't be, but they are, and if you tell anyone, i'll deny it. she felt guilty about saying it, she knows it's wrong, but that's what they're trying to do. >> can you be a verbal bully, a mouthy guy, and then at the same time, not look like you're guilty of the charges made against you? in the bridgegate case and all

aspects. >> i separate the one from the other. i separate yesterday's incidents from the bridgegate thing, because that has consequences. the bridgegate. that had an impact on people, on the economy, and a bunch of other things. this was an exchange between a reporter, between a former councilman and the governor. i separate the two. but the overarching picture of just the way christie tends to engage with people who disagree with him, i think that's something that the american people are going to pay a lot more close attention to as we go closer to these things. >> what's the difference between he shouted that guy down, what we just saw, and the way the mayor of hoboken said he treated her? >> because the mayor was talking about a conversation she had with the lieutenant governor, not the governor. that's my point. >> but the lieutenant governor said he talked to me last night

and i know it shouldn't be this way, but -- >> again, chris, i get the dots you're trying to connect, but it's not the same thing as the governor going to the mayor of hoboken and having that conversation. >> i don't see the difference. >> of course you don't. >> we have one on video and the other one we don't. but mayor zimmer's complaints become very believable. the bridgegate was very believable because we had the context of this guy who seems largely out of control sometimes and very willing to throw his weight around figatively, i mean. so it resonated, immediately. you have the picture of him up there making fun of reporters asking about the lane closures, saying i was the guy moving around the cones, you idiots, like how dare you ask me questions. he says in the second clip, chris, i don't really enjoy this. that's not true. his staff follows him around.

they're the ones for the most part who are uploading these confrontations on youtube. this is a persona he's carefully cultivated and then he got a little shy about it, when it seemed to dove tail so naturally with the bridgegate allegations. >> you only get one reputation and the one he's building is the one on camera. and it will intrude on how we see him. let's move to another guy. frank mankiewicz, i went to his funeral. he said always pay attention to what a politician says after they use the word "but." so now let's watch ted cruz in action earlier today on cnbc. >> jeb has not declared his candida candidacy. i like him. i'll let him decide if he's running, but i will say this. we need to learn from history. we need to look to history, what works and what doesn't. one thing is clear, that if republicans run another candidate in the mold of a bob dole, or a john mccain, or a

mitt romney, let me be clear, all three of those are good, honorable, decent men, patriots. but if we run another candidate in the mold of a bob dale, or john mccain or mitt romney, we'll end up with the same result. millions of people will stay home on election day. if we run another candidate like that, hillary clinton will be the next president. >> what do you make of that after the word "but." he said the nice flowery stuff, then says "but" this guy's a loser. eisenhower, nixon, reagan, let's face it, he doesn't show his far right face when he was running. w. won. george sr won. this idea you only win with far-out right-wingers, when have you been victorious with a hard right-winger? >> i'm going to do what you don't expect me to do. i'm going to applaud ted cruz

for what he said. and here's why. let me tell you why. because i've said for over two years now the gop, to deal with this tension that exists within the party, go ahead and nominate the most conservative person you can find. because every election cycle, we go through the same stuff where they look back and they point a finger at bob dole, they point a finger at mitt romney, et cetera, as if they weren't conservative enough. mitt romney was a conservative governor. >> and you want him to lose? >> this is not about winning or losing at this point. this is about -- >> this is about -- [ all speak at once ] >> chris, this is about making a conservative case with the conservative nominee, as defined by those individuals to the american people and let the chips fall where they may with the american people. that's the only way you get past this craziness, after every cycle where we sit back and we tear down our nominee. >> and it really reminds me, there are people on the left -- i don't like to do that on the right and left. but there are people on the left

who believe all we need to do is run somebody to the left of elizabeth warren. state our principles more and more clearly and be more radical. and even though i share some of those beliefs, i don't believe that's a winning message. that is what the tea party is about. they truly believe that the problem was these people were too moderate and all they have to do, there's a silent majority there waiting for somebody like ted cruz. i'm sure ted cruz thinks it's ted cruz. i disagree with him, i think the three of us disagree with him. but it would be entertaining to see him have a shot at it. he would lose. >> anyway, rand paul is picking a fight with his entire party. this is what he said while stumping in michigan yesterday. quote, remember domino's pizza? they admitted, hey, our pizza crust sucks. the republican party brand sucks, so people don't want to be a republican, and so for 80 years, african americans have had nothing to do with republicans. why? because of the perception.

the problem s the perception is that no one in the republican party cares. we're also fighting 40 years of us doing a crappy job of republicans not trying at all for 40 years. so it's a lot of overcoming. he's obviously a very intent guy with a lot of philosophical reading behind him. he sounds like a 14-year-old. what is all this language about, crapping this and crapping that, and pizza crust, what's his point? >> again, i'm going to go there. i applaud him. and i'll tell you why. because what you're seeing was what i hope will become the beginning of a similar soldier moment that needs to happen within the gop. the way we tend to put people in boxes, we got to do minority outreach. no -- just talk to voters. this is not a complicated task. and so i think what rand paul is beginning to do is just trying to make this move in a direction that no one else right now in the party is moving in, in which

he's going to have a different kind of conversation. so i think the language in all that notwithstanding, i think it's going to be interesting to watch how he challenges those individuals next to him on the stage in the next 18 months or so, to have this kind of conversation. and i think he's trying to be the one who leads and ultimately finishes it. >> why doesn't he then come out against the voter suppression efforts? >> i was go to say that. >> again, chris, this is a process. in politics in the 21st century, we evolve. this is a process he's going to go through. you don't just do it overnight. you just don't come out and take up the position right away. you work your way into that conversation. so let's see where he is in three, five, six months when it comes to issues like that. >> by your reference point, the republican is in the cro-magnon non state right now. and they'll reach homosapien in what century? when will they reach full

development? >> we are at full development. the question is, we have two things go on. one is this internal struggle as to what conservativism is right now, what it means and how we talk about that to people. the next is who's going to be that leader that puts that package together for the american people? >> i think rand paul's real target is not so much african americans, although i applaud his lip service to that. i think it's young people. what about the language with the sucks and the domino's and the crappy. he's trying to reach young people. young people are a better target for the republican party than african americans. but a lot of them don't like the demonization of african americans and they don't like the racism. so rand paul may not make in-roads with african americans in the next cycle. >> i disagree with that. >> i want to make one last reference to domino's, which is the pro-life pizza. i just want to say, domino's

comes in 30 minutes. when is the new republican party arriving? [ laughter ] anyway -- >> it's going to be longer than that. >> i tried to bring it. >> that genius overwhelmed you. anyway, we'll talk next about a republican sweep maybe. races are tight, but the democrats are calling in the cavalry. the clintons are coming in to fight to stop the sweep. plus, the governors races. from pennsylvania to florida to wisconsin, michigan, all kinds of states. anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics. breaking news, state police in pennsylvania have confirmed they have captured accused cop killer eric frein.

frein has been on the run since september 12th, when two pennsylvania state troopers were shot outside a state police barracks in blooming grove in the northeastern part of that state. one of those troopers was killed. frein, who is described as a survivalist eluded police in the mountains for 48 days. a source tells nbc news frein was caught in a hangar at the pocono mountain airport in an area that was not open to the public. former fbi profiler clint van zandt joins us, along with jim cavanaugh. clint, what does where he was captured tell you? >> well, a number of things. number one, we've heard for these last almost two months that he's a survivalist, that he can hide out in the woods under any conditions. and yet it appears that a team of deputy u.s. marshalls on a

routine sweep, were able to find him in this unused, or abandoned in-door facility. so what it says to us, law enforcement has really been the last 48 days, looking for him, all of the preplanned issues of food and equipment and tents and hiding spots, by their actions, they were able to take all of those away from him. reducing him to try to find an abandoned building to hide out in, to get away from the cold, and that's where they got him without firing a shot. he surrendered his weapon and gave up. so you may think he was a really bad guy to kill a state trooper and shoot another out of ambush. but when he was faced with regular law enforcement officers face to face, he did what so many will do, laid down his weapon and surrendered. now it's up to the criminal justice to deal with him for the

trial. >> jim cavanaugh, that he gave himself up in the end, what does that tell you? >> well, he was spent. he was spent, like clint said. spent 45 days on the run. these guys, when they go off into the mountains, we all think they're jeremiah johnson and living offe ing off the land. it's not true. he's in a hangar at the pocono airport. he's not as rugged as purported to be. he did good for 45 days, but he's probably exhausted, and dehydrated and hasn't been eating well. he gave up. i'm glad he gave up. we'll fint out that his ideology was that of a loser, a violent anti-government guy. we're going to be disappointed when we find out all of the computer stuff that the state troopers have already uncovered about him, how he's probably, you know, living in this anti-government, anti-police ideology that destroys so many

people. and what does he do? he gives a lot of pain to trooper dixon's family, trooper douglas's family. but he basically destroys his own life and his own family. there's no cause that really works. it's just sort of a crack pot ideology that these guys get sucked into. it's not that distant, really, from what we see from even international terrorism. it's sort of a crazy thinking that killing someone, killing some innocent person is going to raise some cause. i think we're going to see we'll be disappointed. he's going to be just a loser and we should forget his name and remember the names of those two troopers. >> all right, thank you to clint and jim. we'll continue to track this story tonight. now we go back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." two states and two women could

hold back a republican sweep come election night. north carolina senator kay hagan and new hampshire senator jeanne shaheen. in the new hampshire senate race, a new poll shows shaheen leading republican challenger by a lot. all of a sudden 50-42 among likely voters. down in north carolina, where we were recently, the senate race, the incumbent, kay hagan is four points ahead, not enough there to guarantee anything against republican thom tillis. it's 45-41. hagan's maintained a slim but steady lead over tillis. polls show that lead widening a bit right now. joining me now robert costa and susan page. put these two races in context. not talking about whether it's going to decide who controls the senate. but it's interesting these two developments. it looks like a good lead for shaheen up in new hampshire where we're going tomorrow morning and where we were recently in nashl and the fact

that the clintons are jumping into these races. put it together. >> shaheen is in a stronger position than a lot of democrats because she democrats in as a u.s. senator and former governor. she's been in politics for three decades. and obama's popularity in new hampshire is pretty bad. it's in the 30s, low 40s sometimes. she's been able to eclipse that and still run a strong campaign. down in north carolina, kay hagan has been able to tag thom tillis the republican with all the conservative things that have happened in that state legisla legislature, dragged tillis down and kept her competitive. >> can you predict the trajectories? that they're all over the place. is shaheen in a more solid position and hagan is on the rise? >> one reason republicans thought they had a shot at new hampshire, scott brown, when he won in massachusetts in 2010, he ran hard as a hawk, he ran on

national security, he was picking up momentum when isis was a key campaign issue. when isis started to fade, shaheen started to come back. >> i like that. what do you think of that, susan? for some reason our country has been so compelled, in its interest about self-protection here at home with ebola, that the focus on the beheadings and stuff over there in the levant, if you will, has really dropped off the screen. and it's so well said, i think, by robert, that topics drive everything. if the topic is foreign policy and security, you're hawkish. you may go with the republican. but if it's domestic, it gets murkier. >> if we look at these two races, they'll get attention because we'll know the results possibly early on election night. two states that close early. but in democrats manage to hold both of those seats, all that tells you is that democrats have avoided catastrophe. it doesn't tell you they'll hold the senate. democrats certainly are not -- republicans are certainly not counting on new hampshire. that would be a big upset if

jeanne shaheen loses. and if kay hagan manages to hold in north carolina, there are multiple other paths for republicans to take to get to majority. so let's not overstate what it means. but if they both win, it means democrats are probably not looking at the kind of blow-out that would be their worst nightmare. >> but that's the way i set it up. i didn't say it would be decisive at all to the majority rule. i know you're right, but i said it before you did. >> i very rarely tell you anything that you do not know. that cannot be our standard. >> you're so sarcastic. what i'm arguing, a sweep is going to look like a sweep. if this is one of those bloody nights, where you get people like al franken in trouble, and mark warner in a closer race, do you think that's possible? might see a horrendous night? >> no. >> you think those people are

safe? >> i think those are safe. has it been a surprise shaheen has been inasmuch trouble as she's been. we could have a surprise in kansas or in georgia michelle nunn could come through. there could be surprises. i think what we're looking at, is a pretty good republican night where they take back the senate like they thought they were going to do. it looks to me like they probably get over the finish line this time. >> i think so too. anyway, kay hagan and jeanne shaheen will be joined by bill and hillary clinton. bill clinton will campaign in raleigh. and hillary clinton will make a trip to new hampshire to campaign for shaheen and maggie hassan. what do you make of that? are they timing this brilliantly to get a piece of the action? or are they just going to help

the people at the closest races? >> i've been speaking with top democrats and they think the clintons really have an effect in a lot of close races and not in the way you think. when you think about the clintons coming in, you think it's about the urban vote, not so fast. they help in the suburbs. they're trying to get the obama suburban voters back to the polls. >> i'm sure that's a big message to report on as we get closer to 2016. democrats have opportunities for real good news in the governors races. they're all over the place. in pennsylvania, tom corbett's going down, the first governor to be defeated in modern times for a number of reasons there. rick scott could lose in florida. still very close with charlie crist, who last held the governor's job as a republican. crist leads by three in the most recent poll.

sam brownback is trailing in kansas to his democratic challenger by three points. and up in maine, paul lepage is tied with mike mish odd at 42. hard to find a partern except maybe generally people don't like incumbents. >> here's one thing i noticed. four years ago was a great year to be running as a republican for governor. lots of tea party support. some of these governors got in four years ago when they might not have gotten in at another time. that was certainly true in florida. now they've got to run in a different climate. a climb that's less friendly. they have records to run on. so while it looks like a good night for republicans in the senate. not such a good night for republicans as governor. although there are some democratic governors in trouble too in colorado and connecticut. but more of them on the republican side are looking pretty chancy. >> what's the pattern? in connecticut, you had a tax

increase. i know connecticut is very tax averse. is that it? >> i think americans are predy fed up with politics and politicians. they don't think the economy is looking good for them, whatever the experts say has happened with the recovery and that's hurting governors wherever they are. >> robert, are the democrats going to point to some victories when president obama comes out and makes a statement? will he claim this victories? >> i think so. the big question is how big of a sweep will there be in the gubernatorial races. can they take out a 2016 contender in scott walker? can mary burke eke out a victory? that's my question. >> i know who will be happen if scott walker goes down. that's my colleague ed schultz. >> chris christie may be pretty happy too. >> he's in the on-deck circle waiting to move up if he wins.

thank you, robert. susan, thank you for coming on. and you're as smart as i am, any day of the week. you're just being cute with me. >> tomorrow we'll have a report on how it looks from new hampshire. up next, we've seen politicians get folkscy, but president obama has an unusual affinity for that fine word itself. this is "hardball," the place for politics. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics.

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♪ >> ha! welcome back to "hardball." time now for the side show. here's david letterman on the word out there that jeb bush is readying to run for the white house. here's the late show. >> jeb bush is talking about running for president. wow, that would be the third member of the bush family to be president if he wins. we have for you now a jeb bush update. take a look at this. ♪ >> former republican governor jeb bush is considering a run for president and told the associated press that his mother, the former first lady, who once said that there had been enough bushes in the white house was now neutral, trending in a different direction. keep us posted on what mommy thinks, jeb. a message from sar cast corp.

next up, mccormick, independent candidate for governor from massachusetts, his latest ad shows what always politicians need to show -- audacity. >> it always seemed impossible until it is done. since moving to boston with $800 in his pocket jeff mccormick helped build successful companies, creating thousands of jobs. now, running for governor, he's the only candidate willing to fight. sometimes an opportunity for change is possible. jeff mccormick, the greatest opportunity there is. >> i said audacity, i can't be sure, but that sounded an awful lot like morgan freeman voicing that ad. new data reveals that president obama likes to say the word "folks" a lot.

the president has used that word at least 348 times during his news conferences. here's a 2012 white house briefing. >> but also, asks for additional revenue from folks like me, from folks in the top 1 or 2%, to make sure that folks who can least afford it aren't suddenly bearing the burden. >> i guess that's not all, folks. anyway, up next, ralph nader slams hillary clinton, calling her a corporatist and a militaryist. a menace to the country. he warned democrats not to korinate her 2016. we have a hot debate about nader and hillary clinton coming up in our roundtable. you're watching it. "hardball," the place for politics. synchrony financial partners with over two hundred thousand businesses, from fashion retailers to healthcare providers,

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wi-fi access in more places then ever before. all your favorites in the cloud and on every device. a home you control with the touch of a finger. news and entertainment that informs and delights in ways you never thought possible. comcast nbcuniversal bringing media and technology together for you. breaking news, accused cop killer eric frein has been

captured by police after 48 days on the run. he allegedly shot a state trooper on september 12th. another trooper was also wounded. he was taken into custody today at an airport hangar in the poke nose. during the weeks' long manhunt, police found pipe bombs and an ak-47. back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." it's getting nasty out there. chris christie pounds away at a heckler. ted cruz says that jeb bush candidacy will mean republican devastate. rand paul says the republican brand itself sucks like bad pizza crust. and ralph nader slams hillary clinton as a menace to the country. who's right and who's wrong in these fights? the roundtable tonight lis ma,

you for joining us. as we showed you earlier on cnbc today, ted cruz was asked, if jeb bush was too moderate to run for the white house. let's watch. >> jeb has not declared his candidacy, i'm a fan of jep bush's. i'm going to let him decide if he's running first. and let the voters make a decision. but i will say this. we need to learn from history. we need to look to history and what works and what doesn't. the one thing that's clear, is that if republicans run another candidate in the mold of a bob dole or a john mccain or mitt romney, let me be clear, all three of those are good, honorable men, decent men, patriots. but if we run another candidate in the mold of bob dole, or john mccain, or mitt romney, we'll end up with the same result, which is millions of people will stay home on election day, which is what happened for all three of them. if we run another candidate like that, hillary clinton will be

the next president. >> you know, liz, way back in 1952, that's the speech everett dirkson made bedrofore eisenhow was nominated and went on to victory. i don't know if it's right or not. reagan became more cent rift as he ran. and certainly w. winning and george bush sr winning. the moderates don't always lose. what's his motive for saying something like that? >> i think ted cruz, his motive is that he wants to fire up the base and tell them something they would very much like to hear, and something that is going to inspire them to donate money to his committee. but the reason mccain and romney lost is not because they were moderate. there were specific reasons why mccain lost, that were to do with the direction the country was going in, months before we

ever got into 2008. and as far as romney is concerned, the reality is, romney didn't lose because he was moderate, he lost because he was a terrible candidate. he was too moderate for my tastes on economic policy topics, but the reason people didn't want to vote for him wasn't because of that. it was a whole host of other things. so i think ted cruz, when he says that's one thing that's certain, he's completely incorrect. it's one thing that's not certain. >> looking across the aisle, who do you fear most as a challenger to the democratic nominee, whether it's hillary or not, center right or hard right? >> you would fear someone who is center right. the extremes never win. they don't win if they're hard left. they don't win if they're hard right. now, they may campaign, and we all know this, in the primaries, because they're going after a certain part of the base to make sure that they -- especially if there are four or five

candidates, chris. they have to win. but the reality is, when it comes to the general election, we see it in the debate, we see it in the appearance, they all move right back to the center. everybody has done that because it is the center that tends to govern, and it's the center that wins elections. and so, you know, ted cruz, you know, i agree with the republican to my left here. it's just a way to try to rally the base early. >> okay, let's talk about the other side. good for the goose, good for the gander. ralph nader had strong words the other day about hillary clinton when he was asked about her. he warned democrats not to coronate her in 2016. here's ralph. >> well, hillary is a corporatist and a militarist. do we want another one of those? she thinks obama is too weak. he doesn't kill enough people overseas. so she's a menace to the united states of america.

>> manu, take over for rob nader, because every progressive i know is so mad at him over florida. [ laughter ] i have another theory about it. he pulled al gore to the left on the corporate issues and erks posed a lot of the middle to w. and that's how w. got close enough to grab it in the supreme court. your thoughts? >> ralph nader represents a minority on the left. but he speaks to the populist economic message that folks on the left feel like not only obamas had missed during his time in office, but also hillary and the clintons. they don't rail against the big banks the way elizabeth warren does, or the way bernie sanders does. that's something hillary will have to reckon with. she'll have to fine-tune her economic message and speak to the base at the moment that want to hear more from their politicians. you've seen hillary try to

fine-tune that message in recent weeks, going into battleground states. she stumbled when she talked about businesses and whether they create jobs. but that's something she'll have to deal with when she runs, because folks in her party want to hear her talk about that. >> i would say she's at least two notches to the right of obama on foreign policy, security issues, she's much more hawkish than he is. i think i know that. on the domestic side, i think she's a notch or two to his rig right with language they use. they've sold themselves as moderates. >> i think it's important to distinguish bill from hillary clinton. when you look at his political record, versus her record in the senate. there are some fairly major differences there. that's probably something she's going to want to underline actually if she does run, in the course of the primaries. but bill clinton, i think, is

much more of a cent rift than she is or has shown herself to be. but as far as the war record is concerned, she did have a pretty hawkish record. that being said, somebody who's been critical of president obama's ability to basically go and start wars and continue wars is pretty much all over the map. she was his secretary of state. at the end of the day, i'm not sure there's as much daylight there as people want to pretend. >> but let's go back to your original question, and that is ralph nader. and ralph nader is not even in the ballpark. i guess he doesn't have general motors to kick around anymore. and i like ralph. when i see him, we speak, we talk. but ralph nader, you know, is just, you know, he's saying things to get attention because here we go, it's campaign season. and the reality is he's right about this. i don't think she should be coronated. she's absolutely right, and i don't think she will be.

but i also say this about hillary clinton. and i heard your show the other day, somebody made a baseball nolg about different kind of pitches. i'm going to use a different one, football. peyton manning. she calls those plays as she sees what the defense is doing. she doesn't have a problem calling the play depending on the audience. that's what you're supposed to do this early in the campaign. >> that sounds like bill right there. when cuomo was in the race, he was on the moderate side. the minute cuomo pulled out, he went right into the position and forced songas over to the other side. thank you, by the way. the roundtable is coming back with a hot one. in the south, the democrats are trying to ignite a bigger african american turn-out next tuesday by waving the bloody shirts, that's an old phrase from the civil war, and trayvon

martin, what happened out there. this is "hardball," the place for politics. in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. i'm 55 years old and i have diabetic nerve pain. the pain was terrible. my feet hurt so bad. it felt like hot pins and needles coming from the inside out of my skin. when i did go see the doctor, and he prescribed lyrica, it helped me. it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda-approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions, or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior.

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if you just need a loan, just call a bank. at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know... can help you grow. >> we're brak back with the round table. the new york times reported just today dpemocrats are turning to racially charged messages. to jolt african americans into voting and stop a republican takeover in washington. well, the democrat-leading superpacs is running a radio ad in north carolina right now attacking republican candidate for passing the kind of gun law that he says "caused the shooting death" of trayvon martin.

>> instead, he made it harder for communities of color to vote. by restricting early voting and voter registration. >> tillis made it easier to pass the kind of laws that made it easier for the shooting of trayvon mar 2i7b. >> it has been in-bounds for a long, long time. if you never ran that ad, that's the message that's going on in the barb eer shops, the beauty shops, talk radio. look, most people know that the stand your ground law was used as a dedefense, to some degree,n the trayvon martin. >> was that used in his legal defense, that new law? or did he -- i thought he used self defense? >> they claimed it wasn't used, but tlfhere was still that overtone.

it was still stand your ground. but that is something that the african american community is concerned about. rallying against. and they have known this. reid wouldn't have to run a single ad. it an issue. and, quite candidly, the new york times is about a year behind the news. >> okay. is this inbounds or out of bounds? >> ill think pretty much everything in politics is inbounds. however, i will also say this. that may be what the discussion is, but if reflected in the polling, that ad would not be running. there's obviously a motivation issue. and, at the end of the day, democrats wouldn't be going here if they weren't getting their booties kicked all over town when it comes to these southern races. ? north carolina, they may pull it out. but in some of the other ones, they're going to get spanked. >> is there reason to believe that there's not goirng to be a good wlang

good, black turnout? >> i think there is. you look at polling and the president is overwhelming ining popular among that session. but those democratic senators have been trying to run away from the president. that's going to be an issue for them come election day. you're not going to see the same level of turn out even though democrats have listed millions of millions of dollars. maybe they can bring out some to the polls. but enough to turn hah la louis arkansas? yon i don't think that's going to happen. >> anyway, thank you. we're up here in boston right now. as i said, whern n we return, l me ficnish with a tribt to the

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let me finish tonight with something rare in our country. a beloved politician. tommy menino was mayor of this city for 20 years. and never once in that time has anyone, and this is truly rare in american politics, did anyone get the idea that tommy has lost his personal connection, personal connection with the people who put him in office. when the people of boston came to him with help in something which was easy because he went

from one public event after another on into the night, he did the follow up permly. no problem was too small because tommy menino seemed convinced no person was too small. if they came to him with a problem, it was important enough for them. that meant it was important enough to him. the boston globe took a poll several years back and discovered a majority of the people living in boston had actually met their mayor personally. menino was a liberal and marched on the city's gay pride parade. when massachusetts made it legal, he was proud to celebrate the first same-sex marriage in the city. in an era when it's not so obvious, the city's beloved, long time mayor showed the honor, the joy and the big city love of big time politics. we get ahead of the people who personifies the good the public

life can bring, who give the people all they have. the man they called, "mumbles" never failed to communicate his love for boston and its people. that's "hardball for now." thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" breaking news after a 48 day man hubt e hunt in the mountains of pennsylvania. we'll have the latest. plus -- >> pretty bold of you to go out on a bike ride while the state police are here. >> chasing kasi hickox. she goes for a bike ride to find her state-ordered quarantine as the governor issues what sounds like a vailed thet. >> she's not acting as smart as she probably should. >> then, one day after this -- >> sit down and shut up. >> this response.