>> isis beheads a third american and the cia steps up efforts to degrade and destroy the terrorists. i'm toure. as we come on the air today, the parents of peter kassig are preparing to speak publicly for the first time since video of their son's murder surfaced on sunday. we'll bring that to you live when it happens this hour. kassig was abducted in syria more than a year ago while working for the humanitarian aid group he founded. as a prisoner he converted to islam and took the name abdul rahman. president obama is calling his death an act of pure evil. the 16-minute video shows beheadings of other syrians. they say the video masks a major setback from isis, including the loss of a key oil refinery and death of a top leader. chuck hagel says there's no change in american strategy and the cia is stepping up efforts to train advisers in iraq and

syria. over the weekend america bombed 30 isis targets. isis fighters are 200,000, seven times more than current cia estimates. isis claims to be expanding their territory as terror groups in yemen, saudi arabia, egypt, libya and algeria all pledge their allegiance. our focus right now is on peter kassig. nbc news foreign correspondent ayman knew peter. for the implications of all this, we have former white house mideast adviser ambassador mark ginsburg. you knew peter kassig. tell us about him. >> i had the opportunity to meet him in beirut before he went off. this was talk of chemical weapons attack inside syria. a group of foreign journalists we were all in beirut and he was dloes several other foreign correspondents who covered the the region and had a chance to come out with us. we spent the afternoon together

in beirut, had lunch and had a chance to get to know each other in a very casual, relaxed setting. he was a very amazing guy. quickly you could feel the warmth he had in his personality and for those of us who had just melt him met him at that point, we were drawn to his charisma, his passion for what he was doing. he was telling us about it. despite the risks and concerns we expressed about what it was like to go back into syria at this time, he was still very much driven way sense of purpose. >> ambassador, this is the third american, sixth video from isis. this is different from the past. the quality is different. they didn't show the act of the beheading and they did not parade a hostage. do we make anything of these differences? >> i'm not sure. it's hard to tell because in addition to the decapitation of peter, tragic as it is, they also had a video of decapitating many syrian soldiers. i wouldn't draw too many

inferences into this because the fact of the matter is, there are still hostages left. the bigger question is the terrible loss of life that we're witnessing and the stories we're not even hearing about that ayman knows so much about, the yazidis, tribes members being killed and crucified. the outcry from the arab world is still insignificant. you mentioned at the beginning of the show how many more arab terrorists organizations are claiming allegiance to isis. i'm afraid we're losing some of our steam and galvanizing what needs to be done here. a more united front against isis. >> well, ayman, one of the things we've seen as well as toure mentioned is that other terror groups from across the region are pledging their allegiance to isis. there seems to be an alliance between al qaeda and isis, which you think they would sort of already be aligned, they have

previous goals. but previously they were at odds, had been fighting. what kind of an impact does that regional allegiance to isis have on our fight there? >> as the ambassador is saying, it really should be a wake-up call for a lot of the governments that are not doing enough to tackle this issue. now, keep in mind, the groups that have come out and pledged allegiance to isis may not necessarily have an operational link. may not necessarily be sharing any strategic information. but the fact they expressed an allegiance to the organization, a willingness to carry out similar types of attacks and bring that ideology to countries, elsewhere besides here in iraq, will be extremely problematic. there was a similar pattern that emerged when u.s. began its war against al qaeda in 2001. we saw al qaeda pop up in north africa, yemen, these places. as a result, these groups started to have this potent sense of urgency in carrying out these attacks. and i think if isis manages to consolidate some of these groups under its umbrella, i think it's

going to be extremely problematic. we're not seeing enough from these governments to do two things. tackle these groups with a very strong military hand, but at the same time, really try to drain the ideology that leads to the presence of these groups. >> does another beheading impact that at all? >> well, you know, i think the beheadings themselves are obviously very despicable things, problematic things. i don't necessarily think they are causing these countries into action. i've been hearing from some countries, some of the diplomatic -- some of the dips fr -- diplomats from gulf countries and they are expressing concern about what the u.s. is doing inside syria. these air strikes might be galvanizing more extremists and more radicals. i think you'll hear both sides of this debate for some time. >> ambassador, what do you make as isis using john cantile doing their fake reports over and

over. >> they believe sophisticated use of media is attracting the types of jihadist wannabes from western europe and united states, and these are like rats making their way down the subway tracks trying to get to the destination of the food pile. we're seeing that there more than sophisticated media ayman and i watch all the time is, indeed, accomplishing that objective. that's why someone like me is so exasperated over the fact that there's no adequate counterattack to the type of media that needs to be done. not necessarily by the united states, because we're not the ones who can accomplish that. but just think about the fact that our leading diplomat is spending his time doing other things, negotiating, of course, a new nuclear agreement with iran and traveling to beijing. there's no one of senior level status in the middle east spending their full time trying to gavel niz galvanize the

public. >> middle east expert fawaz came out and said he thinks the beheadings are part of desperation on the part of isis. he thinks it shows they're on the run. i'll read you a quote. he says, kobani has shown that isis can be defeated. isis has been stopped in its tracks. the group is bleeding and the beheading of kassig shows isis' desperation to lash out, to show it still has options, unquote. do you agree with that assessment, ambassador? >> i understand why faraz is saying that but i don't necessarily agree. because the fact of the matter is until iraqi military can launch an offensive against mosul, until we can really stabilize kobani, until raqqa is really able to give up its isis fighters, until we're able to stop seeing this proliferation of jihadi owannabes, i'm very

reluctant to declare victory. >> ayman, what's your take here? how are we doing at combating the ideology, not just the fighters? >> i'm with ambassador ginsberg on this one. no doubt about it, i don't necessarily think that the operation has -- the military operation against isis has begun to tilt the balance entirely in the favor of the coalition. there's a few reasons why i think that. one, isis as a group is fighting on multiple fronts. they might not have overtaken kobani but still making advances in baghdad, and still capable of fighting. the leader of the group has come out adamantly with a recording to suggest he's still very much alive. the fact is that his accounts of what is happening suggest he's very much in control. he's made references of things that have happened within days. not the kind of recording that was recorded several months ago and people just have on file to play to kind of assure the

followers he's still very much alive. so, i do think the organization may have been disrupted, may still be kind of recollecting itself after the coalition -- initial strikes of the coalition but i don't think it's an organization on the demise. the more important part of your question, what are they doing regarding the ideology, i certainly don't think the u.s. and other countries in the region are doing enough for that. those are long-term strategies. those things involve good governance, democracy building, improving the socioeconomic conditions of the region, to try and prevent that -- >> isis provides a certain sense of stability in some places that have seen nothing but chaos for years now. >> absolutely. there's been a complete collapse of state institutions in so many parts of these. if you take a look at where these pockets have popped up, syria, iraq, egypt, elsewhere in libya, they thrive on chaos, on a sense of anarchy. and without state institutions, these groups flourish in those areas. >> thank you so much for your time in this hour. the parents of peter kassig will react to the murder of their son at the hands of isis. we'll bring that news conference

to you live. ayman and the ambassador will be back for that. plus, latest doctor being treated for ebola in nebraska has died. inside hitz final hours and the efforts to save him. "the cycle" rolls on. i lost my sight in afghanistan, but it doesn't hold me back. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. non-24 is a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70% of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com. you've been part of this family for as long as i can remember. and you just mean so much to all of us. the holidays wouldn't be the same without your crescent rolls. we got you a little something. we got you jeans. it's about time.

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happening right now, questions about the death of a maryland doctor who contracted ebola while treating patients in his native sierra leone. here's the thing, 44-year-old martin salia wasn't working primarily in an ebola unit when

he contracted the virus. still he was suffering from kidney and respiratory failure when he arrived in nebraska over the weekend. days after he got a false-negative for the ebola virus. it was only a day and a half later that he died. nbc's gabe gutierrez is outside the hospital in omaha. gabe, it sounds like it was too little, too late once dr. salia arrived back here. >> reporter: yeah, krystal, that sadly appears to be the case. dr. martin salia arveged here saturday, day 13 of his illness. doctors say they did everything he could. apparently just wasn't enough. when he arrived here on saturday, he was put on dialysis. he was also given a plasma transfusion that was donated by a previous survivor of ebola. he was also given that experimental drug zmapp, given a dose of that. again, apparently simply was not enough. the white house has put out a statement of co-doundolences foe

family. the family put out a statement asking to grieve in private. dr. salia leaves behind a wife and two sons. he passed away around 4 a.m. this morning, local time. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you so much. turning to politics now, obama d care season two premiered this weekend. hhs had good news to share. 100,000 people submitted applications on the health insurance marketplace so far. and over 1 million people shopped for insurance. and there were no major crashes reported. >> what? >> a little different than last year. as obamacare exchanges hit the one-year mark, there is even more good news. the number of uninsured is at record lows. >> wow. >> premiums are increasing at the slowest rate in more than a decade. >> oh, man. >> now, for a little built of bad news. the public's approval of the law, on the other hand, just hit an all-time low of 37%, according to a new gallup poll with low public support.

another supreme court ruling coming soon and the gop and majority, the law may be about to face its biggest test yet. let's bring in nbc alex. >> thanks for having me. >> much better news on the exchanges this time. people -- there were a few glitches and people have been able to sign up. this year it went much better. why is it, though, you have this disconnect between the way that the law is actually doing and the public perception of it? >> just look at the last election where you had republicans spending tens of millions of dollars attacking it on the stump and democrats largely ran from it. it's sort of no wonder you have this disconnect here when no one is defending it, or defending it very vocally. i think a lot of democrats are taking pride in the positive number of people that enrolled in the program, as they should, but fewer than 10 million people enrolled through obamacare. it's going to need buy-in from a

large portion of the 290 million other people in the country. i think democrats and defenders of the law still need to find a better way to sell it to the american people. >> let's dig into the numbers a little bit. as krystal said before, 37% of people approve the law, gallup. last week gallup had a different set of data. they had people using obamacare, the exchanges, so on, how they feel about the coverage. it's the exact opposite. more than 7 in 10 are happy with the coverage they got. more than 7 in 10, three-quarters, are happy with the price point, the cost of the health care they're getting. the american people are saying, we hate the obamacare law but american people who are using it say they really, really like it. i'm confused. what's going on here? >> this has been the story from day one. if you asked people, do you support obamacare or affordable care act, they would say no, or more would say no than yes. if you went down a list and

asked them the individual policies, do you support stopping insurance companies from discriminating against people with preexisting conditions, they would say yes to every single one except maybe the individual mandate. no one has been able to connect -- to translate that. i think that onus is really on democrats, on the white house, on the people who are supporting this law and on the mms of people who will be helped bit law. but it really needs to be supported by a large portion of the american people in order to survive. and thrive. >> alex, i think that grubergate is probably the dumbest self-inflicted wound to happen to obamacare since the rollout of obamacare. he calls voters dumb and he contributes to this notion they had to be secretive in order to get this thing passed. does this become a lasting stain on the way that people perceive this whole law, do you think? >> well, it's hard to tell how much this will penetrate the larger consciousness outside of

the beltway. jonathan gruber, i'm guessing his name i.d. is 0.00001% among most americans. but it confirms suspicions that americans had, everything they said about obamacare, it was passed on a platform of lies, that democrats, you know, were not transparent in passing this bill, his words, his own words, kind of confirm all of that. so, they'll point to that. it's just yet another hurdle in trying to get this -- the numbers back above water for obamacare. >> let's talk more broadly about the mood of d.c. right now. it's been less than two weeks since the midterm elections. and it seems like already we are -- by the way, when voters made it very clear they are not happy with where we're at, we're already talking about executive action. we're talking about impeachment. we're talking about suing the president potentially, another government shutdown. i mean, it's pretty crazy how things are pretty much exactly the same as they have been.

"snl" had fun on saturday. they had president obama and mitch mcconnell sharing kentucky bourbon. take a look at that. >> we ask you not to move oim grags without us. and the first thing you do is say you're going to do. first thing. >> you're telling me republicans are going to pass an immigration bill? that's your first -- one of your first acts, bill of immigration. >> absolutely, yes. it's a huge priority. >> really? >> definitely! >> you know what, so i gegs nothing getting done the next two years. >> huh-uh, not a damn thing! >> this is really funny and all but it's also very sad. i mean, this is the reality. this is the new normal potentially for the next two years. >> yeah, i think that's right. i mean, you know, the republicans have been saying that obama will poison the well if he goes ahead with immigration executive action but i'm not sure how much potable water was left in that well to begin with. i think republicans' move is to hunker down and, you know, wait it out until they hope they can

retake the white house before they advance anything they want. and it's really a strategy that goes back to newt gingrich, if you're the anti-government party and you sell yourself as the anecdote to the problem you created. >> thanks so much. >> thanks. and up next, very different political calculus. what could you buy for the price of one f-35 warplane? we're still getting ready for the press conference from the parents of slain aid worker peter peter kassig. we'll bring that to you live. what they do actually is rocket science. high tech components for aircraft and fighter jets. we're just their bankers, right? but financing from ge capital also comes with expertise from across ge.

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we turn to the fight against isis, a major milestone in the future of stealth fighting. the f-35 fighter jet recently made its first night flight from an aircraft carrier off the coast of san diego after weeks of testing. it's expected to replace the f-22, which is currently leading the air strikes against isis in

iraq and syria. get this, at $399 billion, the f-35 is the military's most expensive weapons program ever. by 2018, toure, the defense department is expected to invest $83 billion in 459 aircrafts, according to a gao report. that's $180 million per jet but with the defense budget dwarfing other programs, and tons of other problems facing the nation, is this money being spent wisely. a new article in "government executive" magazine calling the five things you could buy for an f-35, lists other things we could do with that $180 million, like ending epidemics like ebola, state-of-the-art disaster relief systems. for more let's bring on patrick tucker, editor. thank you for being here. you write in this piece that the f-35 could potentially cost as much as $600 million apiece when you factor in maintenance and other costs.

so, we're looking at tons of money here for this. what is the justification for spending all this money at a time like this? what does this particular fighter actually do? >> well, the main thing this fighter does is protect extremely well-funded defense contractors from going broke. other than that, it's less capable that many argue, than a bunch of systems we already have. it's not the fastest plane in the world, not the most capable bomber. it's what the marines, navy, air force could all agree on, so it's sort of a creature of committee. and it's also a plan that has manufacturing components in a lot of different states, in a lot of different congressional jurisdictions. so, it protects jobs as well. what i did for this piece, i wanted to take a lack at it from the perspective of the defense department. we could all decide that $180 million could be spent on a lot of different things but looking at it from the perspective of where the defense department in the years ahead could invest relatively equal amount of money and achieve much larger gains

than a single jet, i looked at epidemiology, looked at creation of next generation battery technologies, water filtration, creating global literacy and also robotic planes that are much cheaper, not as capable but you can get a lot more of them for the buck. >> as blake mentioned, ebola has obviously become a national security concern for us. one thing you had mentioned is 18 zmapp-like drugs. i want to hit back on this argument because you have folks who say, there is something to being a step -- or four steps, ahead, rather, ahead of other nations. like china, for example, who might have, you know, new planes they're launching. they quite know how to use them. isn't there something to having an f-35 that gives us the reassurance if something happens, we are steps ahead of where everyone else is? >> i think the f-35 becomes a much more attractive, much more capable system at a much lower cost. so, the question of how many

planes china can produce that are, perhaps, not as good as an f-35 but for much less dollars. that's something that has to enter into the calculation here. everybody is working on planes. everybody wants air superiority in the future. but here's one of the big differences. as we're pursuing programs like this, as we continue to invest in the f-35 program, nations around the world are creating entire air forces out of next generation robotic systems, out of drones and out of increasingly armed drones. and they're creating capabilities as much less cost than we are right now through this program. and so you've got a lot of people right now in washington, d.c. that suggest that that sort of moon we're spending right now in the f-35 could be much better spent creating much more capable au autotonous flying systems like drones. they won't be as capable as an f-35, but can you lose a lot more. that tends to happen in war. >> patrick, one of the other

things you say we could be doing for the cost of an f-35, is educating the developing world. talk to us about that. >> this is interesting. this isn't something we normally think of as being part of the department of defense mandate, but increasingly that's the way it's becombecoming. we look to the department of defense and men and women in uniform to pretty much solve every problem we can't bring ourselves to solve. what matters to natural security that's becoming an ever wider array of things. one might be global literacy. we know places where there is literacy are more stable, democracy takes root better, they produce more income for individuals in that country, higher gdp per citizen, results in geopolitical stability. i looked at some technologies like aa, a tablet device that m.i.t. media lab creator negroponte has been testing in africa. at 90 bucks a pop you could produce $2 million, give them away to parts of africa and

create things like english literacy. that's a huge strategic advantage as we look at where we'll be stationed in the decades ahead. >> patrick, i think there's probably diminishing returns into outspending the rest. world on defense in general. we spent more than the rest of the top ten global defense budgets combined, right? we spend nine times more than russia. do we get a nine times better military than russia for that money? i mean, when russia starts annexing its neighbors, that money -- what does that money mean at that point? >> well, there's a question of how much we spend in systems like this. there's a question of how much political will we have to use resources that we have on deck in a fight against russia in a one-to-one fight against russia over something like ukraine. the amount of money we spend on systems like this doesn't match our will to engage in huge conflicts. we want to be ready for them. we have to be ready to fight

like a two-front war as we were in world war ii. this is something we continue to plan for. so, there is some argument that says we should definitely be outspending everybody else, but really that's a proxy for, we should be achieving results atten exponentially greater rate than everybody else. so i think that moving towards -- >> let me stop you. the family of peter kassig is about to make a statement in a press conference. let's go there live. >> good afternoon. greater love hath no man than this, than to lay down his life for another. a while ago we were informed that our beloved son, abdul-rahman no longer walks this earth. our hearts, though heavy, are held up by the love and support that has poured into our lives these last few days. >> one of abdul rahman's teachers, the mother of some of his friends, wrote before his slaying, if a person can be both

a realist and an idealist, then that's peter. peter has earn the ted the righe both. in 26 years he has witnessed and experienced firsthand more of the harsh realities of life than we can imagine. but rather than letting the darkness overwhelm him, he has chosen to believe in the good, in himself and in others. peter's life is evidence that he has been right all along. one person makes a difference. our hearts are battered, but they will mend. the world is broken, but it will be healed in the end. and good will prevail as the one god of many names will prevail. >> please pray abdul rahman, or pete if that's how you know him,

at sunset this evening. pray also for all people in syria and iraq and around the world that are held against their will. and lastly, please allow our small family the time and privacy to mourn, cry and, yes, forgive, and begin to heal. thank you very much. >> you've been listening to the parents of peter kassig speak about the heartbreaking loss of peter beheaded by isis. we're back with ayman. parents saying one person makes a difference. you know, it's so heartbreaking that peter was there to offer aid and comfort to the people of syria and ultimately was killed for his humanitarian work there. >> yeah, why is it you can kind of see where he probably gets that from. i mean, that was very much a message of humanity coming out of those parents. i mean, talking about forgiveness, also just, you

know, the tone of the message for prayer for the people of syria and for iraq and around the world. i think that's something that seems to have been instilled in their son because certainly it was a driving force in what he was trying to do. at the end of the day he himself said he found he true calling in helping the people of syria, those that were particularly in need and those that had been effected by the war. >> ayman, what does it do to people over there now who are fighting against isis? when something like this happens. do they question their own safety being over there? >> well, particularly, you know, the types of individuals, like peter and others, who are there to donate and to dedicate so much of their life, i think this is definitely going to give many a moment of pause. you know, one of the saddest tragedies of this is peter was an individual who actually had so many syrian groups, including some that would be considered extremist radical elements, calling for his release. meaning his work that he had done such good work there, that he had built for himself a name. people knew what he was about, knew he was a good person, thaw actually had a lot of different

groups from the syrian opposition calling on isis to spare his life and have him released. obviously, they didn't listen to that. but it gives you a sense of the kind of work he was doing. i think when you see something like this, there's no doubt it's going to affect people. there's going to be a blowback element. >> can you talk more about the last time you saw peter and his understanding of the danger of where he was going and yet his resolve to go there anyway. >> yeah. we talked to him about it and we talked to him about the fact that he was a former soldier, the fact that he was american going into an area where, you know, there had been kidnappings. but, like i said, i think it was totally overshadowed by his drive, by his sense of desire to help people. and when he was -- when he weighed the risks with the rewards of what it meant for him to be able to help these people and how it kind of drove him into that danger zone, he at the end concluded it was worth his life for it. sadly, de pay that price. but this was a person who was

very much an idealist in every sense of the word. >> ambassador, listening to this press statement, you've followed this issue for a long time, what is your sense of what isis' desired response was from the family and from the united states and where do you see this going next? >> well, in some respects this was an act of retribution against an innocent american, a decent and incredibly wonderful young man, a humanitarian doing all the things that it's so hard for americans to understand the magnitude of the humanitarian catastrophe that's befallen the syrian people that ayman reports on so ably and tells us so much about. the fact of the matter is, here are these parents who have done everything they could to help obtain his release and yet the fact of the matter is, is that this is an act of retribution for american attacks on the city of raqqa, for the coalition attacks against the dam, as well as the refineries.

this is a way, in effect, to try to use what little currency isis has to basically scare americans further into forcing its government, the -- their government, to cease its involvement against isis and to turn more of the arab world and the muslim world against the united states. look what they've tried to do here. peter was a humanitarian, converted to islam. and yet, how could they possibly believe that by killing him, they would garner more support, more jihadis, from the muslim world. it shows you the terrible sickness that's inflicted on so many muslims who believe that this is a righteous act of vengeance against the united states. >> yeah, ayman, that's what i was saying earlier today. this is someone who converted to islam. it's such an act of terror. we were talking earlier about how this video was different

than the once before. they didn't show the actual act of beheading and they did not parade another hostage. without giving specifics, do we know anything about other hostages that they are keeping in captivity at this point? >> well, the short answer is yes. we know they still have western hostages, including those from the u.s. as well as from europe. one of those actually was an individual that they themselves had released and announced, and he been -- he appeared in a few propaganda videos they had released about kobani. that's a british national. so there's no doubt they still have among their captivity westerners. and then they also have hundreds of others believed to be either syrians or iraqis, including members of both the kurdish peshmerga they have caught as well as iraqi security forces. >> ambassador, we need to be sending more than just military advisers to the region. we need to have reporters feeling free to go to the region, but then have you someone like jim foley paying with his life.

we need to have aid workers being able too go to the region to help with the 16 million folks who have been displaced in iraq and syria from all this. and yet you have peter kassig going there and paying with his life for trying to help those people. what is the larger impact on this region when reporters and aid workers do not feel free and safe to be able to go and help? >> i think, toure, it shows that so much of this becomes reduced to numbers. it doesn't show the videos of the refugee camps, the reporters are unable to report on the terrible civilian casualties on the willingness on the part of good muslims and arabs to stand up against isis. it creates a narrative that isis is the dominant force that's gal galvanizing the broader arab world and suggests in some respect that the humanitarian aid channelling in from other countries, including the united

states, is not reaching their intended targets. there's just millions of refuse geese on the jordanian border or in iraq or lebanon or turkey to go about another terrible winter and their plight is not being reported. it has annee enormous chilling impact on galvanizing support against isis, on providing more humanitarian relief, and most importantly, by getting the arab world to wake up and realize what is happening in their midst. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. as we head to break, another look at the heartbreak and the resolve. we just heard from the family of peter kassig. >> good afternoon. greater love hath no man than this, than to lay down his life for another. a while ago we were informed that our beloved son, abdul rahman, no longer walks this earth.

our hearts, though heavy, are held up by the love and support that has poured into our lives these last few days. >> one of abdul rahman's teacher, the mother of some of his friends, wrote before his slaying, if a person can be both a realist and an idealist, then that's peter. peter has earn the the right to be both. in 26 years he has witnessed and experienced firsthand more of the harsh realities of life than most of us can imagine. but rather than letting the darkness overwhelm him, he has chosen to believe in the good, in himself and in others. peter's life is evidence that he has been right all along. one person makes a difference. our hearts are battered, but they will mend. the world is broken, but it will

be healed in the end. and good will prevail as the one god of many names will prevail. >> please pray for abdul rahman, or pete, if that's how you know him, at sunset this evening. pray also for all people in syria and iraq and around the world that are held against their will. and lastly, please allow our small family the time and privacy to mourn, cry and, yes, forgive and begin to heal. thank you very much. and ah, so you can see like right here i can just... you know, check my policy here, add a car, ah speak to customer service, check on a claim...you know, all with the ah, tap of my geico app. oh, that's so cool. well, i would disagree with you but, ah, that would make me a liar. no dude, you're on the jumbotron!

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lear is the author of a real fun memoir entitled "even this i get to experience." it's an honor to have you here in the guest spot. >> thank you very much. >> and i have to say quickly, it's a giant collaboration responsible for all of that. no one person does what you described. >> no, of course. but you put some really important valuable television on the air. think back to the '70s, "all in the family," "good times" and "the jeffersons," all important shows with race. do you think you made a difference? >> i hope we made a difference. it's a lot of television. well, i know that people talked. that's the one thing i can be sure of. families discussed the show when they were over. and that's, you know, that's what we're supposed to be all about. an informed citizenry talking. >> it certainly got a lot of people talking. my family grew up watching "all in the family." many people saw archie bunker as

a racist. and i wonder if that character would survive on a tv show today. >> i think the character would survive on a tv show today. i'm told by people who run shows, show runners, that a lot of the subjects we touched, they can't touch today. but i have not had that direct experience myself. >> so, you think he would survive? there would not be a bunch of backlash? >> well, let me put it this way. i'm going to try again. i haven't said this out loud before, but we're talking about doing something about "all in the family 2015." entirely different family, but -- >> but you could still get that same sort of bunker character out there? >> not necessarily the same, but 2015 version. >> modern version. >> a modern version. one of those topics i wonder if writers -- show writers could touch today is in "maude" back in 1972, maude made the decision

to have an abortion. that was a year before roe versus wade. pretty remarkable stuff. i mean, you still don't see much discussion of or certainly someone deciding to have an abortion on television. >> well, let me tell you something about that. when we -- the network didn't wish to do that, of course. we -- maude had a friend in that first episode before she had the abortion who was having her fifth child, couldn't afford the four she had. wouldn't think of an abortion. so, we tried to make the discussion as even as possible. nothing happened when that show went on the air. nobody -- i mean -- >> no reaction -- >> a handful of phone calls existed, of course, but nothing really happened. when it went into rehearsal, the religious right had gathered. they knew it was coming -- i don't mean rehearsal, i meant into the repetition, when it was repeated later in the spring. and they were ready.

then they started laying down in front of a car in new york, in front of my car in l.a., carrying on. but america was exists in famil. the problem comes and goes. people treat it the way they treat it. it is an evergreen in our culture. >> what shows does a tv legend like yourself watch today? any shows particularly move you or you think are part of your legacy, you can see them nodding to what you had done when you were doing all of these shows? >> we all walk on the shoulders of the people who preceded us. there were an youawful lot of gt people that preceded me. it to answer your question specifically, transparent. i'm fascinated with transparent. >> on amazon? >> yes. brilliantly written, brilliantly performed. walking one of the most

difficult lines i know between hilarity and heartbreak. wonderful. >> i think back to you putting george jefferson on the air at a time when the civil rights movement was pushing upward, the affirmative action movement was pushing upward and he fit with a lot of the ethos of the time. some black people were beginning to get into the upper middle class. but he was so angrily rude toward white people, which some would think to be cathartic, but this was the number one show in america for years. why do you think so many white americans were comfortable welcoming rude george jefferson into their home? >> because it was funnfunny. he was a great clown. and you had to laugh at george jefferson whatever he was doing. the same thing was true of carroll o'connor in that

character. >> we laughed at george jefferson and archie bunk erdos. >> they were laughing at that little black guy carrying on the way he was carrying orying on. but they still loved him. >> you have people who think the way archie did and talked the way archie did. it's not an issue that's gone away. you look at immigration and the debate in this country. what would archie have thought of the tea party? >> archie would not -- archie would have denied the tea party. he would have started a coffee party or something. but he was not a hater. that was the secret of archie bunker. he was not the a hater. he was -- he was much more afraid of progress than he was of bigotry. >> that's what it is. afraid of change. >> black people moving into the

neighborhood. that's never happened before. >> such an honor to have the great norman lear on with us. >> why are you saying good-bye? >> the show has to end at some point. >> you can stay with us. you know how this works. still ahead, who the president's immigration move could have the biggest impact on next. aveeno®. because beautiful skin goes with everything. [ female announcer ] aveeno® daily moisturizing lotion has active naturals® oat with five vital nutrients naturally found in healthy skin. where do i wear aveeno®? everywhere. aveeno® daily moisturizing lotion.. and try the body wash too. aveeno®. naturally beautiful results™. aveeno®. ♪soft holiday music ]♪ can you help me up?

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don't think about the president's coming immigration plan as giving gifts to future democratic voters or rewarding law breaking because cynicism is bad for your complexion. what we are told the president's plan will do is protect americans. the plan as we now understand it

would shield 3.6 million parents of american citizens from deportation. it would keep families together. it would not only bring people out of the shadows, it would liberate them from the constant fear and anxiety of never knowing when they will be deported, and it will protect young americans from the constant fear of a parent being deported. if you think of immigration in the context of foreign born workers who do jobs americans barely want to do, then it becomes easier to oppose reform. if you think of the children who are american citizens who live in fear of a parent being deported or who have lost a parent to deportation, well, that changes the issue. there are 16.6 million american citizens living in mixed status families, by which i mean one undocumented immigrant in the family, quite often a parent. most of those 16 million are children, young american citizens, whose constant state of anxiety surely has an adverse impact on early childhood development, potentially limiting their ability to become

productive adults. and one of the hundreds of thousands of families that have been broken by deportation. since 1998 over 660,000 children who were born in america to an undocumented parent have lost at least one parent to deportation. these are families that are broken either temporarily or long term and children who have gone through abrupt parental separations and lost their can connection to a parent and ended up in a single-parent family that's really struggling to make ends meet. should we have government policies ripping apart families and creating single parenthood and hurting citizens who are children? this is not how it's supposed to be be. family reunification has long been a cornerstone of american law and ins practice as the former commissioner of ins. this has been the case since the immigration act of 1965 eliminated the national origin quota system. big, bold action by the president is required now. generations have lived with fear and anxiety for years while

congress has dithered, while congress has approached the i issue like it's about the rights of citizens versus the rights of immigrants. there are millions of young american citizens who are in pain, who are in need of relief, whose lives are being adversely affected by continuing with a broken policy and political infighting. the unaccompanied children fleeing homicidal drug gangs had an indelible impact on the midterms and now these children, these citizen children, will have an historic impact on the end of obama's presidency. as he liberates them and their parents from fear, republicans will respond with threats of impeachment or lawsuits or rage against the supposedly imperial action. you can expect to see the president in the white house garden one day soon announcing this program while is yosurrouny the citizen children who it would affect. because as paul waldman of "the washington post" writes, if you're looking for a sympathetic face of undocumented immigration, you can't do much better than an american kid who is terrified his parents will be

deported. okay, that does it for "the cycle." i want to wish my son a very happy 7th birthday. >> happy birthday! >> have a great day to you. "now with alex wagner" starts right now. another american family is force ed d to cope with death ae hands of isis. it's monday, november 17, and this is "now. ". >> we're going to have to create some sort of ground force in syria. >> the terror group isis has murdered yet another american. >> peter kassig was the fifth western hostage murdered by isis since august. >> his parents don't want him remembered as a victim. >> rather than letting the darkness overwhelm him, he has chosen to believe in the good. >> he very much felt this was his calling in life. he said i can either be another young man with a gun or i can actually hpe