the shadows. five million people that felt marginalized. you know this is real. you're watching history tonight. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton, please join us for special coverage of president obama's immigration speech in 45 minutes. "hardball" starts right now. president obama goes it alone. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we are one hour away from president obama's speech to the nation, laying out his plans to take executive action on immigration. here's what we know right now. the plan will allow as many as five million undocumented immigrants to stay in the united states and get work permits.

among them, four million parents whose children are currently citizens. they have to be in the country five years, pass background checks, pay fees. it will expand legal status to more dreamers, people who came to the united states as children, but it will stop short of including the parents of those dreamers. the president will say the actions he's taking are lawful and similar to actions of presidents before him. in his message to members of congress who question his authority to do what he's doing, quote, pass a bill. republican opposition has already been fierce to this. the president's plan has been denounced as executive amnasty, a partisan bomb. the president faces a skeptical public. 48% are opposed to him taking executive action. this according to an nbc news/wall street journal poll.

38% back him. can he sell this plan? former governor of new mexico and editorial director for huffington post, thank you both for joining us. we are one hour away from the president speaking to the nation. governor, i'll start with you and the basic challenge he faces and we laid it out in the numbers. the country that the president will talk to tonight is more against this plan than for it. just 38% of americans say they like the idea of the president issuing this executive order tonight. what does he have to say when he talks to the country in an hour to change that? >> well, it will start out being, as you mentioned, a bit unpopular. but i think as this plan evolves, as the public sees how this affects human beings, families staying together, five million people being able to come out of the shadows, it's going to gain support. because the public supports a legal path to citizenship. i think it's 58%, for those who are the 11 million that are

here. >> governor -- [ all speak at once ] governor, i want to press you on this point. 3/4 are saying they support something more expansive than what the president will lay out tonight. but when you see polls like that, when not even half that number are saying they're okay with what he's doing, what does that tell you where the public is on this? they're saying don't do this, even though they support a path to citizenship. >> the problem is a political one. republicans have refused for six years pass comprehensive immigration. they've blocked it and continue do that. i find it a bit disheartening that they're now saying he doesn't have legal authority. the last several president in the last 50 years have taken action like this. ronald reagan, by the way, three million. so what's happening here, i believe, is what's happening in the last six years. gridlock. and this president, i believe, is taking a historic step. he's acting within the law.

he has the legal authority, the prosecutorial authority to do this. enforcement of immigration laws, as the executive branch. he's making five million background checks, they'll pay taxes, get the felons, deport the felons. i think this is going to be in the long run, a very popular policy move, but it's going to -- hispanics, this is a historic civil rights action that is going to make hispanics a growing surge of latino voters that are going to be critical in the 2016 presidential election, remember what the president did and remember it in a positive way. >> there's the long-term, short-term, and the immediate. i want to press this point about the challenge facing the president tonight. because that number there, 38%, just 38%, fewer than 4 in 10 americans saying they're okay with what he's about to do tonight. that sticks with me.

if you think about the last two years, the president has been making the case, which is what's in the senate bill, this is the bill i want to sign. republicans in the house are refusing to pass this bill. if they don't pass it, i'm going to do it. so he's been laying the ground work and still only 38% support what he's doing tonight. what can he say to bring people around? >> i talked to one of the top officials working on this just a while ago. they were quite blunt about the fact that there are political and substantive risks in this. it's not a riskless thing the president is doing. i would point out that some people opposed to the president's executive action might think he isn't going for enough. so it's not clear what that 48% number means. what the president needs to do tonight is to avoid procedure. to avoid the legal niceties and

talk about what he's doing to heal families. this is a -- the strongest political suit that he has to play, has to do with the fact that you're bringing so-called mixed families out of the shadows. meaning, they don't have to live in fear of immediate deportation. they can live together, and work productively together. he's got to say that. he's got to also say, this is not amnesty. this is not citizenship. this is a way to heal families, keep them together, allow people to pay taxes, even though they're not going to be getting all government benefits. they're not getting medicare, medicaid for the most part. really in a way, they're going to be laboring on our behalf without all the full benefits of citizenship. but we'll let them do that because we want their families to be together and it's the decent thing to do. he's got to stress that tonight and over and over and over again if he wants to win the political

battle over this. >> the pushback has already begun. a spokesman for speaker john boehner called the president emperor obama. today they released this video. >> instead of working together to fix our broken immigration system, the president says he's acting on his own. that's not how our democracy works. the president has said before he's not king, and he's not emperor, but he's sure acting like one. >> the message was clear, the president is overstepping his bounds. >> if president obama acts in defiance of the people and imposes his will on the country, congress will act. make no mistake. make no mistake. when the newly elected representatives of the people take their seats, they will act. >> if president, if he doesn't get his way, says, i got a pen, i got a phone, i'm going to go

it alone. >> that's a disaster waiting to occur. >> this man dictates by his pen and his phone. dictates. he won't even come into the senate. what shall we, who are the senate, tolerate president obama openly desirous to destroy the constitution and this republic. we, the senate, are waiting in our duty, to stop this lawless administration and its unconstitutional amnesty. >> a lot of hyperbole there but there's an interesting political question to be asked about the timing of this. because this is coming on the heels of an election which the president's party did not do well. they had an opportunity, the president had an opportunity to issue this executive action. there was talk and signals from the white house they were going to do it. then they back tracked to wait until after the election.

put aside the legal question about whether he has the right to do this or not. look at the political question. politically speaking, is it smart to be taking an action like this, after your party was handed its hide at the polls? >> yeah, he is smart -- >> go ahead. >> i think it is smart because the president has played along for six years basically saying to republicans, let's work together. he's been rebuffed. and i think by showing strength, by showing what he did today, the prospects will improve, i would hope, for republicans to look at a comprehensive immigration bill, enhanced border security, legalize the 11 million that are here, find a way for the republican party to get out of this box they're in. because i'm looking politically -- you asked for a political question. they're going to be with hispanic voters, in horrendous shape unless they find a way to get out of this box.

also, the president did not propose this before the election. he respected the views of democrats and republicans to hold off. and for six years, steve, he's said, take a look at the senate bill. you know, speaker boehner of the house, they didn't even produce a bill whatsoever. so now i think republicans are outraged. yeah, they won the election, but i think we have a constitutional government. we have an executive branch. we have a congress, and a president can take this executive action legally, and it's going to be up to the republicans to come up with an alternative. this is only going to last three years or two years. they can pass a comprehensive legalization plan that obviates this if they want. but to just say he doesn't have the authority, this is terrible, gridlock. they've produced this gridlock that we find ourselves today on a broken immigration system that desperately needs to be fixed.

the only way it can happen is in a bipartisan way. >> thank you both for joining us tonight. appreciate that. much more ahead as we await president obama's announcement, less than an hour from now. we'll look at the strategy from both sides. both sides are ready for a fight. who is best positioned going forward? plus, what potential candidates in 2016 are saying tonight. don't forget, rachel maddow and chris hayes will be here at 7:45 as we lead up to the president's speech. our coverage continues in a minute. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪come on yeah ♪i say yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪'cause you make me feel like a pony♪ ♪so good ♪like your pony ♪so good ♪ride the pony the sentra, with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. [singing] ♪mony mony

as we speak, president obama is preparing to make his remarks to the country. the white house photographer tweeted this photo of the president rehearsing in the east room. back with more as we countdown to the president's speech coming up at the top of the hour.

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we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. welcome back to "hardball." we continue the countdown to president obama's address from the white house at the top of the hour.

meanwhile, extreme forces are mobilizing on capitol hill. fill the bathtub with water and board up the windows, because republicans are warning of dire consequences from combat on capitol hill to violence in the streets. >> surely the president understands the kind of explosion that will occur up here if he takes that unilateral action. >> we are unfortunately witnessing a constitutional crisis. >> the country's going to go nuts. you can see instances of anarchy. >> what do you mean? >> well, you could see violence. >> explosions on capitol hill. a constitutional crisis. violent anarchy. mo brooks is even warning that president obama could be thrown in jail. he said, quolt, at some point, you have to evaluate whether the president's conduct aids or abets, encouraging or entices foreigners to unlawfully cross into the united states of america.

meanwhile, the democratic base has been thrown into a frenzy as well. they're comparing the president's actions to abraham lincoln freeing the slaves. >> one day there will be movies written about this episode in american history. there will be a president who issues a executive order like the emancipation proclamation which freed three to four million slaves with the signing of a pen. >> president lincoln said public sentiment is everything. so the president has to -- i wish the public will give the president a chance to listen to what the president is trying to do. and also, does the public know that the emancipation proclamation was an executive order? >> i think it would put him in big company. lincoln used the executive order to do emancipation proclamation. >> so both sides have their

talking points. we have two bases that are ready for battle. get ready for serious collateral damage. danny, let me start with you. i was talking about this in the last segment. it's pretty obvious in the short-term, republicans can score some rhetorical points here just on the issue of the process. hey, look, he's going it alone. the country is saying, on this particular action, they don't want him taking executive action right now. longer term, you're finding 3/4 saying they support the path to citizenship, support the bill the republicans have refused to act on. so there's a longer term problem for the president. so the short-term stuff aside, is there anything substantial that republicans will do in response to this? will they try to pass legislation to cut off funding? what can they do in response to this? >> i will tell you, from many years i've been a supporter of

immigration reform, but it's got to be legislative. irrespective of what the president decides to do, it would be damaging for him politically to do it, i think it's probably not constitutional, but the republican congress has an opportunity to pass meaningful legislation. it's probably going to be the piecemeal approach the house has been working towards, multiple bills getting at the same solution. but we have an opportunity that the republican congress will be able to pass meaningful legislation to get the support of republicans in the senate and give the undocumented population the certainty they deserve, not this sugar rush -- >> that's interesting. because what you're saying, that is essentially what the response from the white house and democrats is. hey, republicans, if you don't like this, sit down and pass some legislation. so you're talking about passing legislation, and coming up with a compromise. the question i'm asking, for better or worse from your standpoint, this action is going to be taken tonight.

this is going to be on the books. we're hearing some talk about shutdown and things like this. are they going to be taking actions to take this thing off the books after tonight? >> they can take some measured reasonable steps to keep him from doing what -- they can't overreact. we can't do a government shutdown. we can have limited actions to limit what he's able to do. they can limit the budget for those agencies and those actions involved in this. but we have a real risk of overreacting and damaging what has been some in-roads that we've made as a party into the hispanic population. we performed pretty well among hispanics a couple weeks ago. we have to continue that for 2016, to have an opportunity to win back the white house. >> overreaching, i get the sense that's what the democrats are counting on. the president does this, and the

republicans are unable to contain the base that say, we don't like this and we need to do something extreme to fight it. is there a calculation on the democrats' side that will happen in response to this? >> especially the republicans in the 113th congress are the perfect foil. all the things you've shown at the outset of this segment are things that democrats and certainly the officials in the obama administration at the white house could have predicted. they knew this was going to be the reaction, and this fear of overreaction that danny is talking about, is something that republicans really should near. what's going to happen, though, with the 114th congress, at least from folks in the republican congress, the grown-ups there hope the influx of new republicans coming to the capital will be of cooler heads and will be more interested in governing than all-out battles, shutdowns -- >> gentlemen, do you think back

to the shutdown last year, do you think the republican party, this new republican class, do you think they've learned from that? do you think this will be a different posture from them in response to this? >> keep in mind, what you have, the leaders who were there during the shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis in 2011 and 2012, mitch mcconnell who will be the senate majority leader. john boehner, who will remain the house speaker. they do not want to have a shutdown. they do not want a debt ceiling crisis. they certainly at least publicly they're saying and hinting they don't even want to go down the road of impeachment. that's what they want. what we'll find out in january is whether the 114th congress will be as manageable as they think they will be, or will they be as outraged and uncontrollable as the 113th congress? >> what we have right now is a battle of messaging. there's hyperbole and frenzy on both sides.

the democrats talking about it being the emancipation proclamation, that's hyperbole. this is -- >> and the president's action being constitutional, that's hyperbole as well. >> but there is a real legitimate argument to say that what the president is intending to do is not constitutional, it's not within the scope of his powers. >> but you got to the heart of it earlier when you talked about the risk of eveoverreaction ande risk of overreaching. there's an argument to be made constitutionally. what can john boehner and mitch mcconnell do to take that sentiment that may exist throughout the republican party and stop it from exploding into, we think this is unconstitutional and we should force a shutdown, therefore we should introduce articles of impeachment? what can they do this time? >> now we have a republican senate and a republican senate that can or may or may not take up appointments that the president might have.

may or may not take up legislation the president wants passed. we can keep the president from acting unduly, and it could be governors throughout the country might sue the president for taking this type of action. it's not just immigration reform, the implications are vast and wide. we had an opportunity to take advantage of the next eight months or so to work in a bipartisan way, not just on immigration, but tax policy, foreign policy, a whole host of issues that we should have come together on and taking this action now, not giving the congress the opportunity to work its will is going to, as they say, poison the well. >> all right, we got to leave it there. congressman, sorry about that. a lot of pressure, the count is on. how the issue is playing among the 2016 presidential contenders. some of what you're hearing from the right is what you'd expect and some of it is surprising.

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welcome back to "hardball with chris matthews". democrats believe the move will energize latino voters to turn out for their party's candidate. rick perry disagrees. a potential presidential candidate himself says public disapproval of the order will be a major roadblock for democrats. >> if he goes through with this, and he sticks a finger in the eye of the american people, with no thought about it, other than this is what i want to do and i'm going to do it, i think he jeopardizes long-term the democrats ever to get back in power again in washington, d.c. >> when it comes to hillary clinton, we've heard virtually nothing on this. there's hardly a guarantee that hispanics would respond to the

executive order by turning out for hillary clinton and it could spark a backlash from voters migrating away from the party. joined now from michelle bernard of the bernard center for women. raul reyes. mercedes sh lap adviser to the bush administration. hillary clinton, this is a pattern with her. doesn't want to get involved in the day-to-day domestic politics. so you have the president making this executive action tonight. we've heard how most, not all, but most republicans are responding to this. is this something that latino voters, are they going to look at this and say, this is a huge difference between the two parties? is that what they're going to see, or something more limited? >> no. absolutely. we can look back to when president obama introduced for the young undocumented immigrants in the summer of 2012. almost immediately there was a sharp uptick in support from latinos for him.

latino voters when given a choice, one of the options was if republicans push back against obama's executive action, how would you respond? about 2/3 said they would respond negatively to the gop taking that approach. so it's a tremendous approach for the president to make good, not only on his promises to latino voters, because it's been delayed and delayed and pushed back. but this is an important part of his legacy with latino voters and the latino community. >> michelle, obviously this is a plot, especially in the latino community, if you voters motivated by this issue, that would speak directly to them. but the broader question about people supporting the concept of immigration reform, but they have a problem with the president taking executive action in this way at this time. is that a long-term problem, or will that dissipate quickly? >> you know what, this is a very interesting issue. i hate to bring up the semantics

that are involved here. but people are in a hoopla over this, and there's a big difference between an executive action which is what the president has said he's going to do, versus an executive order. if he issues an executive order, that's like a law issued from the president that people have to follow. an executive action is more like guidance, the president's vision for what the immigration system should look like in the future of the country. and the one danger in this, i believe, for the president and for democrats moving forward, is that many people who are looking for comprehensive immigration reform, are going to look up and see this was much ado about nothing. if people are not told, you must do this by a certain date. you must halt deportations by a certain date. here are the consequences if you don't do so. if he falls short of doing that, it's not an executive order. it's just a grand vision and mission statement that won't do anything to change the nation's immigration system.

>> well, most potential republican candidates run to the right on the immigration issue, governor john kasich of ohio is taking a different approach. >> we got to think about what's going to bring about healing. now, in my sense, i don't like the system of citizenship when people jump the line. we may have to do it. there's a lot of people who have gone through legally who have not jumped the line who are bitter with this, but at the end of the day, it may be necessary. i'm open to it, i will tell you that, i'm open to it. >> mercedes, a republican voice on the panel here. that surprised me to hear him talking like that. it's not rhetoric we associate with republicans especially when looking ahead to 2016. so let me ask you this. he was talking about there the senate bill, the path to citizenship. but the action the president is taking protecting millions from

undocumented deportation. so for any candidate running, president obama did this, it expires with the end of his presidency. will you continue it, or will you revoke it? where do you think the republican presidential candidates are going to come down? i think kasich told us. do you think other republicans will sound like that? >> i think it's going to be interesting to see what happens here. in the sense that you're going to see a division amongst republican candidates moving forward. they still have to go through a primary, which means the conservative base is going to be very loud on the fact that they do not approve this unilateral action on immigration. so republicans are going to be pretty strong on the fact that what the president has done has been an abuse of executive power -- >> so that seems like, when we talk about short-term and long-term, that seems like a long-term political trap. i think of mitt romney who was forced to say the self-deportation thing, and the

republican running from 2016 who has to condemn this would be saying, all those millions protected by president obama, i'm going to unprotect them. >> i think really where the republicans are going to need to be, and this is something that the house members should have taken up so long ago, the fact that they're going to need to have a solution for the broken immigration system, and that's part of it. they are going to have to embrace the fact that we need immigration reform for our country, because of the fact that it's actually a positive thing for the economy. guess what, we need to solve the issue of 11 million undocumented workers, or who will be left after the executive order. i think this is something the republicans cannot ignore. republicans candidates will be faced with this question and they're going to have to come up with the solution, the answer, how to solve the immigration reform problem in this country. can i also just -- >> you can, but hold that thought. we'll continue with the preview

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the countdown continues. we are less than 25 minutes away from president obama's speech where he'll lay out for americans what he can do to fix a broken immigration system. go right ahead. >> one of the things i wanted to say, we've heard people say the whole immigration debate is about choices. and i think we need to look at two things in terms of pros and cons for the president and the republican party. for the president, there's truly a difference between an executive action and an executive order. if he wanted to really pull out the big guns and do something

huge on immigration, i would hope that tonight we'll hear him deliver an executive order. similarly for republicans, the problem they'll face, they are complaining so much they don't want the president to do this, it's an illegal act, unconstitutional, yada yada yada. congress could fix this bypassing legislation on immigration reform. they could also fix it by taking away the president's authority to do so. and they haven't done it. eventually people are going to say, if you believe he is the tyrant in chief, why have you not voted this power away from him? and they haven't. >> raul, the speech is coming up in 20 minutes. what is the most important thing to you the president can say to the country tonight? >> i think it's to lay out in a specific way what he plans to do, what changes he's going to make. not just priorities and guidelines, what are the concrete changes he's going to make? i spoke with officials and there

are concrete changes. he's going to end the secure communities program, replace that with the priority enforcement program. the priorities for removal will be people who came this year and gangsters, traffickers, that group. then he's going to expand dhaka so there will be no longer the age cutoff. and the dhaka program, for undocumented parents who have citizen children. that's significant because that's potentially 3.7 million people who are eligible for relief under that part of the program. they're saying potentially that could be providing relief to as many as five million people. history has shown us that once people take advantage of the program or not, the numbers are much smaller. i think it's all important to remember, some people listen to the numbers and get scared, thinking about three million, four million, five million. number one, these people are

here. these are people already here. and the number of people who go through the hoops, pay the fee, $465, to qualify for the background check, is always much smaller than the initial potential size of the class. >> and mercedes, from your standpoint in terms of your party and how it handles this news tonight, we got a preview of it in terms of the senators today. we heard on the senate floor, the republicans saying he's acting like a king, like a monarch, unconstitutional power grab, all of these things. is that all we'll hear from republicans? are they satisfied that's the message they want to send? or do you expect anything else from republicans? >> well, i got to tell you, there's definitely not going to be anarchy or violence or anything like that on the streets. but to be frank here, i think mitch mcconnell made it very clear. we're not going to shut down the government and i think he's going to keep to his word on

that. the republicans have very little options of what they can do. the u.s. citizenship and immigration services, they're self-funded through application fees. so there's little they can do. they talked about a short-term resolution and a target amendment to stop the funding. it's not going to be easy for republicans to stop the president on this. i think for the most part, it twists the arms of republicans to take action on immigration reform and it's something they should take on. >> that's one of the many questions we'll have to follow in the hours, days, and months ahead of this. thank you very much. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. when we come back, we'll be heading right into the president's address to the nation at the top of the hour. [announcer:]startup-ny.

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♪ ♪ hi, thanks for being with us tonight. i'm rachel maddow in new york with chris hayes and this is msn msnbc's coverage of president obama's special speech to the nation on the issue of immigration. a long awaited night in american politics. it's 7:45 p.m. on the east coast. about 15 minutes we'll be hearing live from the president, addressing the nation from the east room of the white house. we're told to expect about a ten-minute or so speech, a short

speech. but what he's expected to announce will likely be the most sweeping changes to the immigration system in this country in about three decades. since ronald reagan was president. president obama campaigned on immigration reform when he ran for president in 2008. he called eight top priority for him. he campaigned on immigration again when he ran for re-election in 2012. since then he's been unable to get an immigration bill through congress and because of that, he said tonight he is acting alone. this is very exciting. >> it is. there's two main things here. one is just what it represents for human beings living in this country. there are millions of people who are going to have the terror of limbo, of shadows hanging over them taken away. that's a huge moral improvement i would say in the state of the nation. there's also something politically significant about tonight. we have seen, since the shutdown of last year, essentially a kind of cold war in washington, d.c. the shutdown happened. they passed that omnibus bill

and both sides decided we'll campaign and say mean things about each other but nothing's going to happen. particularly republicans in congress. this is a resumption of hostilities. it the president who saw his party lose at the polls, he's striking the ball. >> going to get done what he can get done. one of the procedural consequences here is no matter how big the president goes, and how much of a change it will make for millions of people's lives, not just a momentary change, a generational change that changes whole families' trajectories forever. it could all be undone. >> that's right. >> because it's a presidential action, if we get a different president who doesn't like the idea in 2016. >> that's the idea. immigration law is shot through with confusion and uncertainty. tonight does a little bit to take that away, but doesn't take it away entirely.

we have lots of people joining us. maria theresa kumar president of vote latino. and host of latino usa. and steve kornacki who is back at his magic board. steve? >> let's take a look. there's a lot of different numbers to throw at you. right here, you see, this is the total number, the estimated number of undocumented people who are in this country, just south of 12 million. 11.7 million of them. lot of talk, we know in 2012, president obama took executive action to protect certain people who have come here as minors, basically there were strict rules in 2012 that applied to 1.2 million people brought here before the age of 16. they had to be under 30 years old when they applied. strict rules set in 2012. protected 1.2 million of them. the range of options for tonight, what to listen for in

the president's speech. first of all, i think we're expecting the president is going to expand that, in terms of the number of minors that are covered, to expand to anybody who came here under the age of 16. they could be 40, 50, 60, if they were brought here under the age of 16, they're eligible. that would be approximately, these are estimations, 500,000 more who would be protected. couple others, start talking about families, parents, leaving families intact. you have parents here, parents who had children in this country. undocumented parents had children in this country. if they've been here ten years, a family that's intact, part of their community, you'd be expanding it to 2.5 million parents. if you said five years, another 800,000. if you said all parents, all parents whose kids are currently

protected, add another 100,000 to that. so that's the range of possibilities. of the original 12 million, it would still leave nearly 6.4 million how many of this group here will be protected and added to those protections that the president announced two years ago. >>. . >> thanks very much. it's going to be very interesting to go back to this after the speech. what steve is describing in terms of what is helpful in the overall scope of the problem, nothing the president is going to announce tonight is going to affect the majority of people who are in this country illegally. it's not going to be a wholesale action of any kind. how much does it mat other e mt margins of where he goes tonight. >> there's a lot of excitele. e there are a lot of people. but then there's, i mean, on my car ride over here, my driver was, like, wow, oh, you mean,

they have to have been here for five years? so my brother and his wife, not going to happen. so it's -- it is bitter sweet. on the one hand, it's recognition. but on the other, it's going to get more complicated. you're exactly right. now it's like how are we going to begin to divide this. and it's like, you know urksz picking a team. yes, not you. >> i think what the president is actually doing, when he was first going to do executive action, people were saying he's looking at one or two million. i think he's gone above and beyond so he can provide some sort of blueprint of what he expecteds the republicans to do. i'm basically talking about let's stop families that are here in this country and let's start doing the real work. doca kids, the dreamer kids, have been incredibly political. they're the ones that have kal e

galvanized communities. it will be swrinteresting to sef their parents are grandfathered in. something else to look for, are they going to raise the cap on dock et children. right now, you have to be between the ages of 16 and 29. what happens if you're 33 but came here as a 2-year-old? >> lawrence, you've been talking about how much legal leeway the president has to act. where do you see him coming in on the range? >> a week ago, i couldn't get an answer out of nin in the white house about what was the legal grounding for what the president was doing. it sounded to me like he's creating a new category of beneficiaries for work permits and immigration law which would require legislation. and it's not what he's doing. there is a giant two-word hole in the middle of immigration law that was written as a regulation and it's called deferred action. you apply to college and they say well, you know, we're going

to defer our decision about your application for another year. that actually happens, in some instances, for kids. and they end up going the next year. what's going to be happeningapp file these applications. ant for three years, the amly kagsz, the action on it will be deferred. and then if you are subject to deferred action, you are allowed to work: but it's false false nating, when you start to stare at it, there's really no limit to it. all of this started in the zone of prosz kecutorial diskregsz. the way that started with was

john lenin and his great lawyer here in new york who discovered in the freedom of information act that the secret service was secretly using prosecutorial discretion. >> joining us now from washington, d.c., reverend ael sharpton. the reason the rev is in washington d.c. is because he was one of a dozen actors who met with the president. what was that meeting like? and what was the subt of confers? >> well, the meeting was very hopeful. the president came in, spent some time with the leaders, maria was there, as well. this was a diverse group of civil rights leaders, fait leaders, immigration leaders. to really hear from him only this historic day, what he was going to say and his appeal to really keep on mooif iing becau this is only a first step. we still must deal with making

law. congress has to make a law. this was a first step that we're not all the way where we need to be. a new president could not continue it. so there are many other steps that must be taken. like i said, when you look around that table, people that fought hard around this issue felt they are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. in fact, at the end, when all of us have taken hands with the president and had a prayer. that was a very hopeful meeting. >> reverend, thank you for that insighted. we're looking at, while we're talking to you, a live shot at the white house. we're going to be checking back

in with you, rev al, after the president's speech. >> one of the most aggressive members of congress on this issue has been congressman luis spsz spsz gutie rrksz rez. >> this nation built with an immigration system and we need politicians to crack it. >> when it comes to immigration reform reform, they say they cannot trust the president of the united states. do you think he would simply sit by and do nothing when you

refuse to act? if you don't like it, then do something. there is nothing in your way: but yourselves. mr. speaker, it is now time for the president to act. >> he not only has the conviction and the energy, he has the art department to act. congressman, after all the energy you put into this, how do you feel tonight? >> i am so excited, rachel. i told the president last night after having dinner, he made the presentation about what he was goingd to say to us, i said mr. president, i think it's so bold, so generous and so courageous of you. i'm going to co. go and my job now is to sign people up. after you issue this executive authority and tell us who it is qualifies, i'm going to go sign it. you know, back in july when i was talking and five million

people, people were like, really? it's their victory tonight. and i'm so happy to be part of that history. >> do you think after we hear these details from the president tonight, obviously, this is not comprehensive immigration reform. this is not permanent. this is not going to apply to everybody who has been advocates have been asking it's going to apply to. do you think that grass roots movement keeps going? keeps the pressure on for more action after tonight? >> it is. unfortunately, the deportations will continue. there will be gaps in this system and people will be caught up and we're going to need to protect them. and gist pull them out. but you know what, i met with secretary jay johnson and that man came with a very special place. he knows how toe take a bureaucracy of men and women and wrote the regulations of don't

ask, don't tell and i think tonight you're going to see some of that same handy work when it comes to improving our great immigration system. everybody is not included. but you know what, i'm going with the president tomorrow not because i want another trip on air force one, but i want to stand behind him and let him know that we support his endevilers. last night, when i saw in the president was the same kind of determination and conviction that i saw when he fought for the affordable care act. he's back. and he's in great fighting mode. and i'm so excited to fight alongside him. >> congressman luis gutierez, thank you. i was looking forward to speaking to you today. as you know, it is about 30 seconds until we are expecteding the president's remarks. interesting to see that crowd outside the white house. the republican reaction to this and the conservative reaction to this is one of the great wild cards. we don't know if that's going to happen or what it's going to mean, but, again, we're

expecting it to be a short address. we're expecteding to hear from the president for about 10 minutes. i'm glad the congressman mentioned jay johnson. the department of homeland security will be a big part of this and how they choose to administer it will make all the difference. >> good ef evening. i'm chris hayes alongside rachel maddow and this is msnb kprrks's special coverage on president obama's speech to the nation. there are crowds outside the white house and we should not gloss over the fact that this was something that was genuinely brought about by grass roots act vic vic ism. >> it is really -- there's an old adage in politics, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it's very similar to don"don't , don't tell". they weren't quiet.