without other stores. you can't swim alone. republicans arguing about immigration with each other. all right, good morning. thanks for getting up with us this sunday morning. a lot of politics to get to, including, not limited to, the wait continuing in ferguson, missouri, for that grand jury decision. a little twist to tell you about overnight. a busy week for hillary clinton and we're excited to have on the show this morning, very excited to have with us terry anderson who is going to be discuss u.s. hostage policy and whether it should change now that we're confronting isis, the question of paying ransom for hostages. also the death overnight of one

of the most unforgettable figures of the 20th century. all that still to come in the show. we want to begin this morning with the republican dilemma over what to do about president obama's immigration action. clear that most everyone in the republican party is angry with the president for his executive action and it's clear that the conservative base wants lawmakers to respond. the party can't agree on what exactly it's going to do here. so, the conservative media site puts it in their headline. republicans leave town without a plan to fight obama quoting further, the many desperate ideas leave republicans without any clear course of action after the president moves forward since congress has recessed. to discuss this joined by our panel this morning, we have msnbc contributor jonathan capehart and senior congressional reporter and will cain joins us, as well. the question what republicans do from here, will, i'll start with

you. i wonder why i picked you for this. here's what i see. we talked about this in the show yesterday. i definitely see in the short term a political hit that the white house is taking here and i think they're willingly taking which is you take the poll and people don't like the idea of obama acting unilaterally. once he sort of does this and he puts this on the books, essentially, republicans are going to be left without, well, if you go to some effort to repeal it, not a popular move because the individual steps are popular and if you want to take some action to repeal it, something dramatic like going down the move of a shut down threat. >> long term taking things away is never popular politically, no matter what the issue. if you talk about obama care, whatever. taking things away is not a popular move. the answer to what republicans should do here, you have to ask yourself, what is the goal? policy, is there anything republicans can do to actually affect the president's inaction on immigration?

i think the answer is no. whether you talk about defunding his policies, impeachment, you actually can't stop this move by the president. it illustrates the fragile nature of our democracy, actually. very few truthfully checks and balances. the only ultimate check on this is political. that's why president obama did it a month after an election and if the american people don't like it, it will matter in 2016. finally, if you want to accomplish something legally, if you want to forbid future presidents from going down this paths, you have to file a lawsuit. hopefully stop future presidents from abusing executive power. >> where does this go from here, jonathan? >> well, first of all, congress put itself in this position primarily because the senate passed a comprehensive immigration bill with lots of republican votes. 68 votes out of the senate went to the house where it died. so, if republicans want to do something on immigration reform, speaker boehner should just let

the bill go to the floor for the a vote and then completely upend and supersede what the president wants to do. that's the key thing. i mean, the president said and i think correctly, that all congress needs to do is pass a bill, if they don't like what he wants to do and what he's trying to do. and we all know that that's not going to happen. that's not going to happen in the lame duck and certainly not happen with 114th congress. >> just to respond to that. two problems with that. not an appropriate form of democracy to say, do what i want or i'll do it on my own. >> there are checks on this. >> go ahead. >> there is congress, which is going to be controlled entirely by republicans and they can pass a bill to overturn this and attach it to a cr and also the lawsuit route. the courts can overturn this and you can sue. the point is if he's losing in court or if congress is overturning it or siding with

republicans on this, that is a check on the president. the problem here is that republicans leaders don't know what they want to do. they are divided as to how to discuss this. the hotter elements of the base. steve king and jeff sessions want to talk about the policy and say roll this back and come may and do whatever it takes. they prefer to talk about the process. they know this is a very, very difficult issue and two years hispanic voters who this benefits will support this. >> i can't imagine any republican who thinks he or she will be the party's nomination in 2016. they want to run in 2016 on a platform of what if my first actions will rescind this order and make these four or five people eligible for deportation. >> ted. >> he moves everyone else to the right. that could be a problem for him in the primary. >> that's the question on politics. i do think the democratic party

will pay a price somewhat in the short term for this action. i think it could hurt in the midwest and those whose jobs is the number one issue. long term you gain latino votes on the democratic side. the question there is short term versus long term. quickly to you, jonathan. the whole idea, let's go back in time and revisit the senate bill or just pass a bill now. it comes with the words which you're not offering, which is comprehensive. past comprehensive immigration reform and everything will be okay. >> there's a senate bill. there's a bill. >> you're dictating only one course of action is appropriate. it's the only one you will aseed to. what if republicans say we will pass five immigration bills and pass ten immigration bills but the most divisive part on what to do with undocumented immigrants and how we divide it up, that is the most contentious part. >> hold on. let me, let's get some clarity on this. the senate bill, the most comprehensive thing has been on

the table. republican support in the senate and move to the house. what is the break down? it is republican majority in the house and they refuse to put it on the floor. they have a right not to put it on the floor. what was the break down? okay for republicans in the senate to vote it and what is it republicans in the house do not like about this? >> it is the order of things in which they proceed. you offer legality before you give back the carrots. border security and so forth. legality comes first. i understand you're going to use the word pathway to citizenship. the true thing that undocumented immigrants whatever term we want to use. legal status. >> you're saying they don't want citizenship. >> legal status. if you offer legal status no further incentive for a democratic congress to give theuthser aspects of the immigration bill. that's why you break it up and that's why you can't do comprehensive immigration. >> will is right about this. there is a legal status that comes before the other elements and the problem with that argument is that the house

hasn't done anything. if the house will do something as speaker boehner has been saying for a while, they would have a much better argument. >> that's a completely legitimate point and concern. >> they would actually have an argument to say we'll do something and now you're overrightiove overwriting the will of congress. >> i think and then i think the other angle to look at it from the angle of the president making this executive action. i could look at this two ways. i could take will's point here that if congress chooses to do nothing, congress does have a choice. they can choose to do nothing and our system says the ultimate recourse should be the voters to say, let's get a new congress that will do something. i can take that point. at the same time we're talking about something limited in nature. the president is saying for the duration of my presidency. these are the guidelines in terms of enforce ment in this country and if they don't like it, they can have someone else. not just the bill that is

sitting there right now, they could pass anything. >> that is such a subjective interpretation on steve kornacki's point of view. >> that's politics. >> it is limited because it expires no matter what january 20th, 2017. >> that's not how you want the country to work. we don't want our policies to flip-flop according to who is president. we don't want the president coming in every four to eight years and saying i'm changing the way this thing works. >> these are all symptoms of a broken and dysfunctional system. i'm just wondering that outrages for a president when nothing is coming out of congress and a significant problem with undocument in this country for a president to say, okay, wow, congress does nothing right now for the duration of my president daes. these are the guidelines. >> undocumented population was much smaller in his time. he signed by executive action he shielded 40% of the undocumented population at the time for the purpose of keeping families together from deportation and work permits and the same divert

action that president obama is doing now and he's applying it to a much bigger number, but still 40% of the undocumented population at this point. comparable, legally, to what previous presidents have done. it's on a much bigger scale right now and the issue is much hotter right now than it has ever been. >> sometimealize ys all you nee is turn on your television at 11:35 and watch "saturday night live" in its cold open and that was true last night and it began with this "school house." >>. ♪ then i need from the senate a majority and if i pass the legislation ♪ ♪ passed then i wind up on the president's desk and, ow ♪ >> that bill was trying to become a law. >> i know that.

sewn, there is even an easier way to get things done around here. it's called an executive order ♪ i'm an executive order and i pretty much just happened ♪ >> as i said, all symptoms of a broken and dysfunctional system. i guess that's -- the interesting thing there is, a massive audience show and you looked at the poll that said 38% of americans 48 oppose the president taking executive action because that's sort of what people are seeing when they talk about the idea of people taking executive action on immigration. >> i guess used to learn in school the way democracy works is the way the bill goes to the house and the senate goes to the president's desk and the president signs it. but what that doesn't talk about is how when the bill goes to one of the chambers and nothing happens. and the president has to do something about it. so, i think that's hilarious. the other part of that is when

the president throws him down the steps, again. >> three times. >> so many steps. >> i think if we play more than 30 seconds we have to start paying them or something. we cut the clip off. we'll be back after this. news of a passing of a political icon. after this. uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. well, knowing gives you confidence. start building your confident retirement today. ur day to unplug.

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we got news overnight that former washington, d.c., mayor marion barry passed away earlier this morning at the age of 78. polarizing figure who served four terms, two different stints as mayor of washington, d.c. even longer as a member of the d.c. city council. one of those terms of mayor came after barry was arrested by the fbi. he was sentenced to six months in prison and returned to the mayor's office four years later.

undoubt undoubtedly, one of the greatest political comeback stories ever. marion barry the ark of this guy's life and political career, whatever you think of him. a trailblazing figure in the 1970. people don't realize that they didn't have a city council or a local government until the 1970s. this guy was big news nationally when he got elected 1978. oversaw there was a lot of redevelopment in washington, d.c. in the downtown in the 1980. he had his personal problems to put it mildly, the drug video goes to jail and then i remember it, 20 years ago, 1994, marion barry comes back and gets re-elected mayor of washington, d.c. still a city council member and i checked his twitter feed this morning. he would tweet random every day things. he tweeted about "scandal." >> marion barry, the thing people don't remember about him. he was majorly involved in the civil rights movement. when he ran for mayor of

washington, d.c., he was a known figure. he was somewhat revered figure. so, what we saw with marion barry was someone sort of the rise and promise of the civil rights generation. you know, the jesse jackson generation. then we also saw the peril of that and that was the crack cocaine arrest. questions about his governance style in washington and people loved him. people in washington loved him, which is why he could come back four years after his conviction. >> yeah, there's certain, there's politicians who are like that. and we, we had buddy on this show from providence, rhode island. edward and they have these sort of checkered histories, or whatever. there is something very populous about them, about their appeal and they're real and authentic in a way and didn't resonate with people. >> hard to think of national figures who have this appeal. whether it's in congress or the

white house that's come back. >> i lobby and i'm thinking, yeah, there is someone who has come to that, that's bill clinton. bill clinton was impeached and everything and he is sitting on top of the world right now. >> minus the drugs. >> bill clinton has never been arrested. >> i know what you're saying. doing your work for you. >> no, but that was, that's true. it was during bill clinton's impeachment, though. his poll numbers, the amazing thing and republicans never guessed this was going to happen in 1998, as that thing played out bill clinton's poll numbers went higher and higher and higher. >> i don't know what lessons we can take from the redemption of marion barry. how authentic or charming he can be. maybe rob ford exhibits some element. when it's on a local level, you also have to answer the questions whether or not people are benefiting from someone's corruption. so, in other words, at a local

level your own vices can become other's virtus. you can actually help yourself get elected through the own corruption. especially when you talk about louisiana. >> you're defining patronage there. >> it's funny you mention rob ford. marion barry was asked about rob ford and he said you're forgetting the big difference. the government didn't set up rob ford. anyway, my thanks to -- >> they'll forgive just about anything, it seems if you're good enough to them. >> absolutely. will cain from the blaze. but it will be at least tomorrow before a grand jury decides if ferguson police officer darin wilson will be charged with michael brown's death. go live to ferguson and get a sense of tension there. stay with us for that. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman,

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when this weekend begab, it was thought we might get a decision out of the ferguson grand jury.

the jurors meeting to indict a ferguson, missouri, police officer in the shooting death of an unarmed teenage this past august. this is what it looked like in ferguson in the wake of that shooting. there were concerns about what might happen after the upcoming decision. yesterday afternoon, though, a public safety unit in ferguson eased back a little bit on their alert stats and the members of the grand jury, well, they got some off time this weekend. nbc news confirmed they will not be meeting again until tomorrow. a system fraught for months now. for the very latest on what we might expect to happen next and when, more importantly, let's go to tremaine lee. thanks for getting up early this morning, appreciate it. so, we're getting indications it seemed up until maybe yesterday or friday that this was imminent. maybe sunday we'd get some kind of announcement here from the grand jury. any sense, has something changed in any sense of what that might

be? >> so much speculation that people would have put money on friday or some time this weekend. now we're looking at reconvening on monday and that's pushing a decision closener to the week of thanksgiving. maybe they're still deliberating and don't have what they need yet to make a decision. already protest groups and organizers are already planning black friday protests, thanksgiving protests that will extend through the weekend. while we're still waiting for this announcement, you know, folks are still hunkering down. with the warmer weather we have seen protests out the last three nights. that's a sign to come as folks are ramping up waiting for this decision. >> how would you, just talking to the protesters, how would you describe their mood in anticipation of this? one of genuine hope that they're going to get the outcome they want or one of dread that, we don't think this is going to go our way and we're getting ready for what comes after that? >> when you talk to folks on the ground, the veterans of the

august movements, you know, they don't feel hopeful at all. you know, it's almost a foregone conclusion for many at this point a nonindictment. yet and still, through it all. you talk to some people, the asmall minority who believe there is still hope. either way they plan on taking to the streets and either way they plan on protesting and lift this banner of justs fice for michael brown. they have been wronged or killed by police. while there is not hope and optimism. folks are still pretty charged up u up. with the weather breaking there was a freeze over this place and now with the warmer temperatures and getting closer to that announcement, folks are, again, getting fired up. >> the preparations that have been made here sort of by law enforcement and the government and the state of emergency declared and meetings between law enforcement and some of the protest groups trying to plan out what is going to happen after this decision is announced. have they succeeded, do you think, in creating a climate on whatever happens will be

peaceful and people will get their first amendment exercise rights or has this, does it work the other way where it creates so much tension and so much anticipation that it almost has a negative effect. what is your sense of that? >> i say to some degree, yes. organizers have been meeting with police. both seem to be working in good faith. they're trying to avoid violence. no one wants this thing to turn bad and ugly. still, the idea that governor jay nixon called a preemptively called a state of emergency and before the first sign and before any problem. that to them is a sign that perhaps law enforcement are looking for trouble. that they're looking to provoke some kind of unrest. 19 rules of engagement and for the most part they agree, trying to be provocative. they don't want any trouble either. they want to go out and exercise their rights as american citizens. again, the idea that you've

already called hundreds of troops into the city in preparation, you know, some say it doesn't bode well for when they come. >> all right, trymaine lee live from ferguson, missouri. thank you for getting up. the latest clue that points to hillary clinton. running for president in 2016. we'll tell you about it. is this line secure? very secure. good, i received a text communiqué from discover card hq? yeah. at discover, we monitor every single purchase, every single day, and alert you by text, email or phone if anything looks suspicious. sounds very secure.

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former virginia senator jim webb this week became the first democrat to take a formal step towards running for president in 2016. announced the launch of an exploratory campaign committee and something that will help his raise money and travel around the country. bernard sanders saying he may run as a democrat in 2016 on the message of economic populism. and maybe martin o'malley will join them as a candidate, as well. when it comes to democrats lining up in 2016 who aren't named hillary clinton, that is pretty much it. one reason why the list of

possible candidates is so short is a group ready for hillary. which has existed to lay the groundwork for the campaign that everyone expects the former first lady and secretary of state to make. in a sign of how quickly 2016 is approaching, politico reported that ready for hillary is getting ready to shut down, presumably to be overtaken by a real clinton campaign organization. the group has raised over $10 million and identified over 3 million clinton supporters and held events in all 50 states. the hillary bus, the mobile arm of ready for hillary has traveled over 40,000 miles across 43 states and it's scheduled to visit 21 college campuses in the next month alone. on friday, group's national finance council met with clinton insiders and all expected to support hillary if she does run. by the way, all this organizing, all of this fund-raising and something that is missing so far, a message. what ideas would hillary run on if she does run as the head of a

pro-hillary super pac put it this way. hillary clinton will determine the message. joining us to discuss, we have blake zeth and beth. blake, we should say in a different life many, many years ago you did work for the hillary campaign back in 2008. >> among many others. >> let's start with this ready for hillary as a group. i think when we started the show, actually, i remember i think it was our first episode, the week this group was starting and my impression of it at the time was, i wasn't sure how connected to hillaryland this was. it feels like it has evolved. >> that's exactly right. the history is really important. so, initially, ready for hillary was something started by some well meaning former hillary aides who were not the top staffers. they're younger people and not what associate with the clinton operation. they had this idea they were really excited about hillary

clinton and this wasn't something cooked up by hillary and bill and their georgetown mansion coming up with we'd love to do this kind of thing. this is something where initially a little bit of concern from the inner circle of the hillary clinton people and you're entrusting the name and the brand to well-known junior staffers and ultimately made the decision, the clinton operation did to sort of actually embrace this operation and having top aides and consultants. >> have they been defacto running this? >> the one way to look at it is almost like when you're a new parent and they say do no harm. i think a big thing here was to make sure this ready for hillary thing didn't come off as some sort of outside thing and doing all sorts of things on their own. make sure there were "grown ups" who the clintons felt comfortable with to make sure that this thing was relatively under control. i don't say that with any sort of inside knowledge. >> what blake is saying, beth,

when you look at what this group has done over the last two years. have they helped her or hurt her? is it helpful that there is a group out there that we just outlined or harmed in that bus tour and people signing up and, oh, by the way, nobody knows what she stands for. >> nor has she said she's running. a pretty much unmitigated good. just jumping out with what blake said, a lot of people involved in her organization for many, many years are behind the scenes and doing a lot of work with ready for hillary and this group has given the impression of recruiting her and begging her to come in and attracting all this attention and support. what else can she possibly do but say, okay, and yes to this and that she will step forward because they're asking her to do so. this wonderful combination of this appearance of grassroots kind of pulling her in while at the same time a lot of people who are very connected to her. they brought in people who were

with obama in 2008 in that cage match. and they bring in jim mussina who was obama's campaign manager. a wonderful job of making it seem, of course she now must run. it's her time to step forward ado this. >> a report this morning, i think she's going to give a paid speech in february, actually. does that mean she's not going to make any move until february? when cdo you think we'll hear something definitive from hillary clinton? when do you think that happens? >> the history here is last time in 2008 or 2007 the announcement came in january and the clinton people felt at that point their hand was forced a little bit because obama was picking up steam and he announced. making lots of money. the preference had been to go later and all of a sudden this obama thing was taking off. they could push that into the future further and further and shorten the campaign. that would be the preference.

hillary clinton made the point that bill had not formally announced until october. >> they were extenuating circumstances in 1991. >> that is a whole other -- >> i love when they go to that talking point. they didn't win iowa. >> but in terms of a formal launch, they were able to push it further back. so, i think to the extent that they can push this off, they will. >> and i would say, they definitely would love to wait because this is going to be very, very long campaign. if she is, as everybody expects at this point, positioned to just take it all the way to the end. you mention jim webb and martin o'malley. nobody with the clout and the potential that barack obama had in 2007, 2008. i mean, those candidates, they are not unserious people. jim webb, martin o'malley, but not going to raise the kind of money they need to be competitive with her. i doubt they have super pacs behind her to give her a good

run. she's out there very exposed for quite a long time and how to keep the momentum around her, her candidacy going for a year. you know, all the way until the actual election starts coming around. >> she's not going to be in a hurry to have 20 debates with bernie sanders. >> how do you manage that process when you don't want that. you want to be exposed but pulled into odd little events with these candidates. when you just want to show that you're the person that will ultimately win this thing. >> the one i'm waiting for here and i imagine some kind of choreography with this, biden. as the sitting vice president, clearly he would like in an ideal world to be president and be seen as the successor. i think some sort of delicate choreographer and i guess that's something to look for in the next few months. ready for hillary 2013 to 2014 looks like it's coming to an end. up next, the continuing fallout over the president's decision to extend the u.s. mission in afghanistan secretly.

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just a few hours president obama will return to washington from las vegas. he headed west to promote his executive action on immigration reform. he managed to work in a round of golf with derek jeter. what the president has not talked about publicly, though, is his signing of a secret order that expands the role of u.s. troops in afghanistan. the president signed quietly, the story that came to light just yesterday morning. nbc news white house correspondent kristen wellker is live at the white house. the story was in the paper yesterday morning and we talked about it on the show. the president basically saying that u.s. forces can take a much more proactive role in going after the taliban and afghanistan in 2016. something we can expect to hear him or people in the white house talking about publicly? >> the big topic of conversation, certainly at the daily briefing on monday, steve.

we haven't heard from president obama about this yet. you can bet he will get a lot of questions about this. here's what we know so far. the president approved this order earlier this month. bottom line, as you point out, that american troops could be involved in what the pentagon calls offensive operations in afghanistan. essentially combat operations into next year. that's significant because that is, of course, after the combat mission was supposed to end. that date was initially set for january 1st of next year. now, according to a senior administration official, the president's order means that u.s. military leaders can authorize combat operations. everything from ground forces to manned aircraft and drones and they need to fall under a few set of circumstances. could include counterterrorism operations against al qaeda and terrorist groups protecting u.s. forces on the ground and also assisting afghan forces. now, i have been talking to u.s. officials throughout the weekend. one official downplaying this

news insisting that, look, counterterrorism missions were always a part of the post-2015 plan. this official told me this weekend, "we will no longer target belligerence soly because they are members of the taliban. they directly threaten the united states and provide direct support to al qaeda. . however, we will take appropriate measures to keep the americans safe." and they're reporting that the president made the decision due to one, the advances of islamic militants in iraq. and also because you'll recall now a new president of afghanistan who has a strong working relationship with the united states at this point. who not only welcomes this move, but, apparently, actually requested it. you'll recall that back in may president obama ordered a reduction in the number of u.s. troops to 9,800 by january 1st. that number expect today be decreased at the end of 2016 to about 1,000 troops and those troop levels, at this point,

still on track. but, again, steve, we expect that once president obama comes back tonight and we get back into the regular swing of things here at the white house on monday, there will be a daily briefing. undoubtedly josh earnest will get a lot of questions about this. >> you can understand politically certainly why the white house wouldn't want people talking about a more aggressive and active role in afghanistan. more questions to be asked. crister wellker live at the white house. really appreciate you taking the time this morning. what will it take? here is a question you may have heard before. here is a twist. what will it take for democrats and republicans to work together and actually get things done for the next two years? up next we'll talk to a lawmaker who may have some ideas because he's been a member of both parties. that's next. ♪from everywhere, filling the air♪ chex party mix. easy fifteen-minute homemade recipes you just pop in a microwave. like chocolate caramel drizzles. happier holidays. chex party mix.

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here's a story line you may have heard once or twice before. the election is over and both parties are pledging to find new

ways to work together and get things done. breaking the gridlock of this paralyzed washington for the last four years is something many of the republicans who swept to victory earlier this month campaigned on and some january they will have a chance to start delivering on that, if they want to. even long-term politician like mike pence who spent a dozen years in congress before returning to indiana as governor pointed to the mandate of change for ushering in a different type of republican leadership, especially at the state level. >> first and foremost, i think there were two messages on election day a couple weeks back, joe. that is, number one, the american people want to change a direction in washington, d.c. but number two with 31 republican governors elected and re-elected, including in places like maryland and massachusetts and illinois, i think the american people said they want more of what republican leadership is providing at the state level. >> fresh start, new direction, bipartisanship. we hear this kind of thing after every election it seems no matter who wins. but the question remains.

can the new majority in congress work with president obama and steer clear of some of the gridlock when it comes to passing any legislation over the next two years. republicans have been loudly warning president obama not to issue an executive action on immigration telling him, basically, if he does do that. he can say good-bye to any chance of compromising with him on anything else. obama went ahead and issued that executive order anyway this past week. now what? determined democratic president and angry republican congress, this is the reality for at least the next two years. can anything get done? our next guest is in a unique position to help us find out. a republican who switched party to become a democrat back in 1985. congressman john yarmath joins us live on set this morning. thanks for being here, congressman. former republican. i bet you're introduced like that all the time. >> chapter in my life which i don't talk about very often. >> i bet now. let me ask you about this because the story, obviously, has been immigration. immigration has been the big

story in washington and in the run up to what the president did this week. taking executive action. we heard from a number of republicans basically this warning, hey, you will poison the well by doing this. if you do this all this idea of compromise of working together the next two years can't happen because we can't work with you and we can't trust you. do you think they're telling the truth when they say that? >> no, i don't think they're telling the truth. i know mitch mcconnell very well. mitch is prag nattic a politician as there is. mitch will do whatever he thinks is in his interest and the party's interest. if that means working with the president on something, he will work with the president on something. he doesn't hold grudges like that. boehner is the same way. boehner has an element of his conference in the house that probably will be affected by this. going to be infuriated. but the question is, can he manage them? >> that has been the question for the last four years. same thing with mcconnell. he will do what is in his interest. his interest just sort of keeping the ted cruz types at

bay and making sure they can't pin the traitor to the conservative cause label on him or does he define his interest as more, hey, i got my position and i worked my whole career for. senate, majority leader. does he start to think in bigger terms? >> i do. i said this wfr, before election day that i think if he becomes majority leader, he will be a different kind of leader. he will try to be anyway. because his legacy will be shaped in these next two years. he doesn't want his legacy to be i was an obstructionist my entire career. he will try. the odds are against him because he has a very, very difficult house that he has to navigate and he also has to, obviously, the president and he have disagreements and his far right wing members. the new members that came into the senate tony ernst and cory gardner and i forget, james lankford. these are as conservative as it gets. he is going to have a much more, i think, contentious problem in

his own caucus in the senate, but, also, he has a three-legged stool he has to work with. i think he will try. >> let's talk about some of the areas then. we talk about whether it will be compromise. some areas that are right for compromise. let's start with immigration because the president's order only lasts as long as his presidency. january 2017, this goes away then. so, what are the prospects now realistically for some kind of immigration bill to get through congress over these next two years? >> i think the prosspects are great if john boehner wants to do it. >> he hasn't for the last two years. >> interestingly, i was on the gang of eight in the house that worked for seven months every day putting together comprehensive proposal. we actually reached agreement on one. not only reached agreement on one, the republican members out of our group thought they could get upwards of 80 votes. >> where did that fall apart? >> it fell apart because several republicans left the group and

because chairman of the judiciary committee refuses to bring anything out of his committee and boehner has not been willing to either take on his tea party members or take on bob. he will have to do that. >> you can see that changing in the next two years? >> i think it could change. i think john boehner wants to get immigration reform done. we came up to an agreement on a proposal that we know can pass the house and it was basically written by the republican members. we got some of what we wanted. but, you know, we knew going in this had to be a bill that was persevceived more conservative than the senate bill. some of it is. the path to citizenship is a little harder and a little longer. basically the elements are similar. except border security. but, again, we know that can pass and i think, you know, there's going it be pressure now regardless of how they scream about what the president did. the ball is now in republican's court on immigration. >> on immigration, right. he's put it there.

so, let me look at some of the other items that soert of unfinished business items in terms of obama presidency. obviously, he's talked about the minimum wage and climate change and talked about the affordable care act on the books and fixes that need to be made to that. tweaks that need to be made that haven't been. when you look at those three things and a few others that are priorities. things he would like to get congress to act on in some way. what are the things that he and your party, that democrats can offer, can trade in exchange for action on those items? what are things that you look at republicans and say, hey, if you give us this, we'll give you that. what are some of those things? >> we don't know what the republicans want to do. i have a hard time answering that. all they have done is repeal the affordable care act and do away with all environmental regulations on undermine the epa. that has been their focus and, obviously, when they can weaken unions, they want to do that. ending prevailing wage and those types of thing ares are very difficult for us to accept.

some changes to some of the environmental rigs that we could accept. we actually wish they wouldn't work with us on some of those things because, you know, i come from a state that is affected dramatically by epa actions. so, i think there's some possibilities there where you could break off part of our caucus. but our blue dogs are all gone. i don't think there are any left any more. so, we have a much more liberal caucus in the house, the republicans are much more conservative. >> the parties are moving apart. >> moving farther apart. >> in a way it's tougher to compromise because you don't have the democrat is more conservative than the liberal. >> if the republican now with their margin they can get anything they want through the house, no question about that and it's going to be up to them to decide whether they can put stuff out that will actually pass the senate and the obama can sign. we're really kind of irrelevant in the process. the only time they meet us. the republicans need the democrats is on spending bills when the tea party members don't want to vote for any spending

and they need democrats to pass it. that's probably the only time they'll need us. >> this is something we're going to talk about later in the show. but i want to talk about it since you're here. the leadership of the democratic party in washington this is true in the senate and in the house. nancy pelosi is 74 years old and harry reid is 74 years old. jim clyborn is also 74 years old. it's a magic number. so, these are leaders who have been in their positions in some cases for well over a decade. they're, obviously, very familiar figures to people. how do you feel about that? do you like to see new and different leadership for the democratic party? >> i think we need to do a better job with that. republicans do a great job with it. kevin mccarthy came in with me eight years ago and now republican leader. committee chairs. he's head of the benghazi committee. we don't do that. senorty is much more important in our caucus and we have now 50, no 68 new members the last two congresses many of whom are brilliant and talented and we

need to make sure that we elevate them so that they don't get frustrated and say i can't spend another 15 years here before i ever get to a position of power. we need to do a better job of that. john yarmuth. the only democratic congressman from kentucky. anyway, john, thanks for joining us this morning. appreciate that. up next, the crisis folks in buffalo, new york, are facing this morning. whether darren wilson will face any charges. behind the scenes what the grand jury that is still deliberating is doing. stay with us. health can change in a minute.

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ferguson grand jury. all right. thanks for staying with us this sunday morning as we wait for at least another day for decision from that grand jury in ferguson. we'll take a look this hour at

what's happening behind the scenes there. what will it take to return an indictment and these decisions need to be unanimous and turn this decision to a crucial voting bloc and one that might decide the next election and former hostage terry anderson will join us later, as well, to discuss whether u.s. hostage policy needs to change as we deal with the threat of isis, specifically looking at the question of ransoms there. we begin this hour, about 350 miles north and west where i'm sitting right now after a snowstorm this week that dropped up to seven feet of snow in some places. folks in western new york facing a new challenge this morning, flooding. only days after the storm, temperatures are now above freezing and they could reach into the 60s in the next two days and that snow is starting to melt very fast. nbc news kristen is live in buffalo.

the story this incredible blizzard last week. tell us about the scene here. >> kind of a one-two punch. a portion of the roof still standing and the snow so heavy. six, seven feet of snow and now we've got these warming temperatures. rain coming into the area and, so, think of it like a sponge. all of this snow really just absorbing all of that water continuing to melt. gets heavier and heavier and it could continue to see the roof collapses and then we're dealing with flooding and that's why, as we drove around and went throughout the day yesterday, our crews saw people trying desperately to clear off their roof so they're not heavy and then also clean out drains in areas so that all of this snow, as it melts, has some place to go. there are flood warnings in effect around the area. the governor spoke about it yesterday. and he's trying to position assets in this area to make sure that they're ready. there are about 425 generators and pumps moving into the area.

51 boats being brought here in case they have to do any rescues. three helicopters so they can th check things out from the air and then 300,000 sandbags in this area so people can use them, get ready and try to keep the water out of their homes. they really are preparing for the worst today, steve. >> kristen dulgren live from buffalo. amazing story out there and we hope that flooding doesn't get too bad. we appreciate you joining us this morning. turning now to st. louis county where today is a day of rest for the grand jury that is meeting to indict ferguson police officer darren wilson. the fatal shooting death of michael brown back in august. but sources tell nbc news the grand je jury will not meet aga until tomorrow. here's what we do know, 12 st. louis county residents are considering whether there is probable cause.

in other words, reasonable suspicion to believe that wilson committed a crime. grand juries usually only get an overview of the case and often deliver the indictments that prosecutors seek. but the ferguson grand jury process has been far from typical. turn over all evidence to the grand jury giving much more responsibility to those 12 jurors. instead of recommending a charge, like prosecutors usually do, providing the grand jury with a list of possible charges for them to consider. three of the jurors are african-american, one man, two women. nine of the jurors are white. six men, three women. and nine votes are needed to charge wilson with a crime. the grand jury does indict wilson, he will then undergo a criminal trial to determine if he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. if the grand jury doesn't indict wilson, clear of state charges, but still potentially face federal civil rights charges or civil lawsuits. he says that if there is no indictment, he'll ask a judge to allow the public access to the

testimony and the evidence that has been presented to the grand jury. so, what should we expect from this grand jury process that's already been full of twists and turns for the last few months? joining me now to help shed some light on that, we have our own legal dream team here criminal defense team in houston that recently served on the team for adrian peterson and professor at georgetown law school. thank you, both, for joining us. paul, former prosecutor. let me start with you. we highlighted the sort of unusual things that are happening with this grand jury. getting all the evidence, not getting a recommended charge. can you tell us why that would be in a case like this? >> well, steve, the prosecutor has the option of just going down to the courthouse and filing charges himself. he doesn't have to go through this process of using the grand jury. you know, frankly, in cases young, black men are the defendants, that's what prosecutors do all the time. but in cases like this and this

isn't like it's the only time in which this prosecutor mcauliffe has had to consider what he should do when a white cop shoots an unarmed black man. in all those cases what this prosecutor does is ask the grand jury to make a decision and, guess what, he has never got an true bill from a grand jury. which means when he went to the grand jury and asked him to bring charges against cops, they have never returned an indictment. what some folks think, steve, he does this for political cover. remember, he is a politician. he's an elected official. he has to have some kind of explanation if he doesn't bring charges when cops gun down people, he wlam blames it on t grand jury. >> what paul just said on the strategy that the prosecutor is using here. is this a case when you're dealing with a grand jury, i mean, does the cliche about you get the grand jury to indict the ham sandwich but do you have to point them exactly where you

want them to go otherwise they won't do anything? >> no, steve, the grand jury has been thought of dating back to common law is the conscious of the community. but in the situation like this, and paul is right. being a police officer is the ultimate home field advantage. for instance, in harris county, houston, texas, where i live and practice. it is virtually unheard of for any harris county grand jury to not only indict any officer for conduct involved with on the job shooting, but for any trial jury to ultimately convict. and that's because, by and large, most grand jurors identify with police officers and not with suspects. and in a situation like this, what we are going to see are 12 good, decent, hard-working st. louis residents who are nonlawyers getting a crash course in criminal law. >> so, paul, what about the

other, the other aspect we mentioned there. the idea of all this evidence, potentially, if there is no indictment, all of this evidence being presented for the public to look at. is that unusual and what are the implications of that? >> i'll believe it when i see it. that is very unusual. these people are testifying under oath. it's a secret proceeding. one of the concerns is that how we seem to know so much about what is going on. supposed to be a process that only the prosecutor. this is the advantage i have over my buddy brian who is a defense attorney. i have been in the grand jury 100 times. only the prosecutor is allowed there with the grand jurors. it's a lull standard. it's probable cause. they don't have to decide whether this guy is guilty. what i don't get, steve, mcauliffe is throwing all of this evidence and all of this law at the grand jurors and he's not giving them any advice. he says he's not going to make a recommendation. i have some of the best law students in the law at

georgetown and we spend week thinking about manslaughter and murder and negligent homicide. i don't know how you take the 12 citizens and throw all this stuff at them and come out with a reasonable decision. >> how many options the jurors are presented with. if he's not giving them, hey, try this or look at this. what does the menu look like there? >> he's saying you could do murder one. you could do murder two and you can do volunteer manslaughter, which is like a heat of passion killing. you can do negligent homicides. you can do involuntary manslaughter which is like reckless killing. these are technical terms. how are these lay people as responsible as they can be. how can they make an informed decision. >> from the standpoint of a defense attorney here. what is the strategy and what do you think the strategy has been for officer wilson here in terms of dealing with this grand jury and then we say also if he clears this hurdle and no indictment here and still the n

potential for civil lawsuits and how are his people approaching this? >> two words. all in with regards to my buddy chris hayes. this is a situation where they have not only shown their whole card, but everything else they can possibly come up with. like my buddy paul will tell you, having a suspect, a target or a defendant testify in the grand jury is like christmas in july. it usually doesn't happen and it usually doesn't happen for a good reason. in this situation, these 12 folks have not only heard from the officer, they heard from his experts. and in a situation like that, if and the defense's estimation they go and this grand jury reveals, the prosecution is going to have a blue print for not only this officer's testimony, but his expert testimony, as well. it could be a very rough ride for the defense, if this grand jury some time next week returns a true bill for any one of the four or five criminal options,

steve. >> well, this is one to stay tune on. that grand jury reconvening tomorrow. but until then, legal experts. we appreciate you both joining us this morning. thanks a lot for that. up next, get to indulge in two of my favorite things. speculation about who will run for president and the big board. interesting new poll numbers. stick around for that. i'm the proud dad of three messy kids they get stains like you wouldn't believe. this tide ultra stain release and zap!cap helps me get out pretty much any stain can i help?

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i'm not going to run just because of the pundits or anything else like that. the closer you get to something like that the more you realize and i say this only half jokingly that you have to be crazy to want to be president. well, that is wisconsin governor scott walker and he's also made some indications in the last week that he is, in

fact, running for president in 2016 and certainly plenty of republicans encouraging him to do so. we had the news earlier, as well. the ready for hillary super pac unfolding and jim webb the former democratic senator making his moves, now, too, to run. that's the season we entered. the mid-term election is over and the campaign for 2016 began. in the stage we're at right now is sort of the first impression stage. the field, the perspective field is out there. we don't know for sure who is actually going to be on the ballot when the first primaries and caucuses are held but we do know who is interested and a sense of what kind of impression they made so far on the american people. what the american people generally think of each of these candidates to start with. so, that's what we wanted to use the big board to show you today. who are the perspective candidates and what are the first impressions people have of them? let's tastart on the republican side. a name everybody talks about is jeb bush. you see bush's overall this is

with all voters, not just republicans. with all voters those aren't great numbers for bush. 26% positive, 33% negative. not great numbers. especially when you look at this, this is jeb bush right now. look at george w. bush, his brother, at the same point in advance of the election. george w. bush was 53% positive and 9% negative. that is one of the reasons republicans were so excited in 2000 to get behind george w. bush's campaign. why he was able to wrap up that nomination so easily. he can't make the arguments that george w. bush made and let's take you through the other republicans who are out there, see how they're stacking up, again. slightly positive view and you look at ted cruz, that's the opposite. one of the worst scores you'll see among republicans. rick perry, did not make a good impression with his 2012 campaign sitting there with a ten-point gap. marco rubio more on the positive

side, you can see. mike huckabee ran in 2008 and may run again sort of in the middle and john kasich, this is somebody we talked about a little bit in the show this weekend and wants to be if he runs the establishment choice and he's yet to make a broader impression and we'll see what happens and scott walker, we just showed that slip from. here's another interesting one to look at. chris christie, 29% positive and 29% negative. but what did chris christie want to run on originally? what was the idea? the idea was that george w. bush 2000 idea. he's the guy who helped new jersey through super storm sandy, that was one of the things he was going to run on. very popular. look at what it was just a year ago. just over a year ago, chris christie was at 41-12 and now 29-29. his image has changed and changed for the worse. doesn't knock him out. still keeps him interested in running but changes the equation a little bit. democratic field. much, much smaller field. hillary clinton in the poll this week 43% positive and 40%

negative. take a look back about a year, two years ago. 58%, 28%. hillary clinton and bill clinton for that matter enjoyed a renaissance when it came to their standing in polls during the first term of the obama presidency because she was the secretary of state and removed from day-to-day politics and a lot of republicans started praising bill clinton and held him up as an example. here is a good democrat we could work with as opposed to barack obama. that was the republican talking point for the first term and it resulted in that. gave hillary clinton these great poll numbers and now you can see she's back down to earth, although certainly among democrats doing a far better known than any other democrat. you look at the other names that are mentioned. elizabeth warren, 23-17. joe biden eight years in the spotlight here, basically seven years as vice president and slightly more negative than positive and as we said, doesn't look like joe biden will have much traction. so, not expected to right now. but you can see that's where the

vice president stands. so, again, this is about first impressions and the initial impression that they're making on the american people and thought we'd show you that now. up next, the growing voter block that may hold the key to 2016 and beyond. a group you do not hear much about. ♪to say, throw care away. ♪from everywhere, filling the air♪ chex party mix. easy fifteen-minute homemade recipes you just pop in a microwave. like chocolate caramel drizzles. happier holidays. chex party mix. ["mony mony" by billy idole she cokicks in on car stereo]y". ♪don't stop now come on mony♪ ♪come on yeah ♪i say yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪yeah ♪'cause you make me feel like a pony♪ ♪so good ♪like your pony ♪so good ♪ride the pony the sentra, with bose audio and nissanconnect technology. spread your joy. nissan. innovation that excites. [singing] ♪mony mony

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ring ring! progresso! i can't believe i'm eating bacon and rich creamy cheese before my sister's wedding well it's only 100 calories, so you'll be ready for that dress uh-huh... you don't love the dress? i love my sister... 40 flavors. 100 calories or less. it's no secret that democrats and republicans court hispanic voters. a block that didn't turn out for democrats in quite the numbers it has in the past. a group that both sides agree could play a huge role in who wins the 2016 presidential election. but democrats may also be losing support among another crucial constituency and warning signs in this year's mid-term results. about 50% of asians voted for democrats in 2015 mid-terms while 49% voted for republicans. basically dead even. two years ago in 2012, exit polls show that 73% of asians voted for democrats, more so

that year than even hispanic voters. what caused that massive, what caused that drop from 2012 to 2014? one possible answer is president obama's delay in acting on immigration reform. about 1.4 million undocumented immigrants from asha and the pacific islands. what if they're more prone to be republican in the first place. after all, bill clinton received less than 40% of the asian vote when he ran for president back in 1992. and a team of political scientists pointed out earlier this year that asian americans, as a group, tend to earn more money, excuse me, than other ethnic dwrgroups and be more business. asian americans are the fastest growing ethnic group in the country and account for almost 4% of all votes. so, it's time to pay a little more attention to their ability to help swing an election. i'm joined by stanford's neal, part of the team to examine the asian american vote and joining

me grace maine of new york. thank you for being here. congresswoman, i'll start with you. 2012, 73% of the asian vote goes for democrats. huge reason president obama is re-elected and we look up and it's dead even. 50/50 basically. what happened in the last two years? >> i'd like to counter that there have been other exit polls, for example, one that shows that many asian americans still leaned democratic in a lot of local and state elections. and, so, i think that the asian american vote is definitely something that we can take it for granted. and the time for our 2016 candidates to cater to the asian american vote and to find out their concerns, the time begins now. >> so, did something happen in the last few years? a particular issue? we were suggesting in the intro there the president did the executive action this week, but didn't do it for the previous two years. is it that or what would cause that kind of drop? >> i believe the asian american

vote is a diverse constituency. it's important for both parties to utilize, for example, different types of ethnic media and see that they're doing the best that they can to reach out to the asian american constituency. >> that's a good question, too, neal. when we say the asian american vote, it's a particularly broad term. what are we talking about here? >> i totally agree with that. for example, indian americans and vietnamese americans are two different groups. indian americans are the richest in the country and vietnamese are on the poorer side. so, it's a very complex constituency and maybe less accurate to say it's one broad group, even in pulling together puerto ricans, for example. >> among this patchwork of different groups that we can define as asian americans, any particular movement you saw in the last couple years to explain what happened in this election? >> don't take the exit polls too seriously. they're not sampled to be

representative of asian americans. only 300 asian americans sampled across the country in that exit poll, just fyi. i think the more important thing is what is the common fabric and it's the issue of inclusion and they look at the republican party and they see them excluding them from the social fabric. maybe if there is any movement that is particular to the group, it could be that the president has not moved fast enough on the immigration issue and basically trying to include them in the american. >> i wonder, too, we say the history of, again, when you have these exit polls going back years. it's not as, you look at the african-american vote and for 50 years it's been staunchly democrat and i don't think a candidate has broken 20% going back past goldwater. when you look at the exit polls for the asian american vote, it does go more to the republicans. you know reagan, bush and in that era. >> i wouldn't take it that seriously. there were like 50 asian americans polled in that exit poll. the margin of errors are huge.

that being said, the big thing that asian americans are newer to the american social fabric th than, they don't align with a party and, therefore, the republicans think they're still up for grabs even though they do lean to the democratic as of this moment. >> when you talk about the democratic party needing to be more attentive and not take anything for granted. are there particular issues that they should focus on? >> i think immigration, of course, is a tremendously important issue and also issues of economics and health care. asian americans a lot of them are small business owners and they face a lot of obstacles. health care is something we talk about the wealthy asian americans but also many asian americans who are living in poverty across the country. >> are you seeing political campaigns? we look at, again, we talk about the politics and immigration and all the mobilization efforts that have sprung up around this

issue. obviously, getting out the african-american vote are you seeing campaigns try to organize mobile -- all these different subgroups, i guess you could say. are they paying more attention to the asian american vote than they did before? >> a lot of asian americans don't live in swing states. one of the few swing states is virginia which i think the asian americans did help mark warner hold on to that seat and in a district close to sanford. >> house race. >> the house race. immigration was a big issue but maybe not the way you might expect because conner was saying we need more h1 visas and protect american workers. so, it's actually pretty complicated even among asians how they can disagree on the immigration issue. >> what are the other sources of, again, such a diverse community. are there other issues you can think of where there is a big

disagreement? >> i will give you one republicans might be able to use in the future is affirmative action which was a big issue in california, too. asian americans are coming to the realization that maybe affirmative action is not only a transfer from their group to blacks and hispanics but, actually, slots going to white americans and the democrats might be protecting that at elite universities, et cetera. this is an issue where even asian americans disagree and where it could be that the republicans can take advantage of. >> i'm curious to what your reaction to that is. >> i think it's important that we as democrats and republicans begin to analyze the impact of affirmative action. we've seen cases of recent lawsuits, for example, in harvard and in new jersey and it's important that students are able to be as well rounded as possible to be able to apply and get accepted based on their criteria. >> i take your points, such a small sample in the exit polls. when you see that 20-point drop

from one election to another. something might be going on here. interesting to have the conversation. congresswoman grace megof new york. really appreciate that. who should be part of the next generation of leaders for democrats and is it time for them to leave now? we'll look at that question. that's right after this. eceivedm discover hq? yep. we check every purchase, every day and alert you if anything looks suspicious. nice. i'm looking into some suspicious activity myself. madame that is not a changing table. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card at discover.com ime know i'm doing a good job.ts i like it when my toothpaste lets me know too. that's why i went pro. go pro with crest pro-health. for an intensive clean. i can really feel it deep cleaning my mouth. for a 4x better clean try these products together. that was a great check up.

didn't take long after the democrats defeat in the recent election for the party's top leaders in congress, nancy pelosi in the house and harry reid in the senate to say they'll both stay on in their leadership positions. no grumblings from challengers looking to unseat them. suggestions that it might be time for pelosi and reid to step aside and move on. a suggestion that pelosi bristled at. >> when was the day that any of you said to mitch mcconnell when they lost the senate three times in a row, lost making progress and taking back the senate three times in a row. aren't you getting a little old,

mitch? shouldn't you step aside? it just is interesting as a woman to see how many times that question is asked of a woman and how many times that question is never asked of mitch mcconnell. >> on the heels of pelosi's heated reaction there. "daily show" jon stewart called pelosi "every bit as politically craven as her male counterparts and said it was time for her to go." 74-year-old harry reid gets asked whether he is too hold to keep his leadership position. not as if his age is an outliar. steny hoyer, 75, jim clyborn is 74. on the senate side dick durbin is 70 and that makes chuck schumer the spring chicken of the bunch and turns 64 today. brought in as the party's leadership, she is 65 yearsode. is this a valid question? the question of being too old or staying too long. time for democrats to bring in

younger blood to lead the party on capitol hill. so, let me talk to you first. what pelosi is say there about mcconnell and how come no pressure on him when they couldn't take back the senate in 20 2010, 2012. if they hadn't won this wreer, big pressure on him to go at that point. i remember covering the house democrats when they missed in 2002 and they missed in 2004 and talk of pelosi, hey, you have to get it together in 2006 and she did get it together and everything was fine. what was the attitude among democrats when she was there and their leader for more than 12 years. are they starting to say it is too much? >> breaks down in two categories. everything has been in a holding pattern for more than a decade with the pelosi and horner batter and that is going on under the surface. but the way people talk about it

privately, you're a hoyer person pelosi person. and it's a very closely divided conference. frank pelon who is more senior and ended up winning against pelosi. for the powerful and energy committee top democrat position. the really interesting thing is that there is no clear ascendancy of who will take their place. not clear who will be the next democratic conference leader. who will be the next. the entire calculus scramble and the pelosi folks, obviously, have an advantage. >> what sahil is describing. when i was covering the house, it struck me. pelosi was so good at keeping this tight circle around here and keeping control of that caucus. i mean, the stuff you have to do if you are going to be good in politics and keep a leadership position where everybody is coming after you. hoyer had run against her and

screamed out all the hoyer people as she could and she kept the tight circle around her. i see her and the people around her. their the same people going back ten plus year. is there a price for democrats to pay outside capitol hill when people look and say, it's familiar. i've been looking at pelosi for 12 years. >> elected in 2008, this young, dynamic black man. ever since he's been president, he's lost so many democrats out of the house and the senate and now democrats who are supposedly the party of young people are basically sort of these old calcified people who have been around forever. all the youth is now on the republican side because they've won these massive midterm elections so convincingly. so, i mean, nancy pelosi is, obviously, she made a good point that women are probably judged more harshly than men in terms of their age and longevity. not so much her age, but just

the fact that nothing has ever changed. same people making the same decisions and their caucus gets smaller and smaller and smaller. that's not nancy pelosi's fault. most house district are jerry mnder toed to elect. however, with the same people in place making the same decisions and the same strategy, it has to be incredibly frustrating. there is this problem at the state level because not a lot of young democrats coming up who is going to get into those positions and make their way up to the leadership. >> give me some of the names. when you get beyond pelosi and hoyer and clyborn. who are the democrats out there if in 2016 one or all of them would walk away. who would we hear from? are there people in position? >> i think there are. very likely that we'd be surprised by some of the names that come up. some of the names i'm hearing is chris van hollen. he navigated the waters very well and he raises a lot of money and then javier, who is already in leadership. >> in california. >> and joe crowley who i think

has been there. you have done some great reporting on how -- >> joe crowley from queens, new york. there's another show right there. >> caught up in that leadership battle and john larsen is there, as well. you know, it's hard to know, a lot of young democrats who kind of want this and there are a lot of democratic recruits in recent elections that have just gotten wiped out and have not been able to win because the house is such a difficult map for democrats in general. >> with pelosi, too, you wonder at a certain point the democrats their best bet in 2014 was not to win the house, but to do well enough in 2016 if hillary had a good performance maybe on her coattails could take it back. that doesn't look like that is going to happen. if you're pelosi, i'll be in the minority. how long do you want to stay minority leader? >> she's been majority leader, minority leader and has to be frustrating because so little power for the minority party in the house.

even if hillary is the nominee on the democratic side and she wins fairly convincingly, the structure is still not set up for the democrats to take back the house then. probably not until the next census. we're looking at 2022 where there is a realistic chance for the democrats to reclaim the house. that is a long time. for people who are very ambitious to run as house seats and then be stuck in the minority for six years. >> it is hard to hold on to power for that long. if nancy pelosi got that position basically in 2001 and you're talking 20, 21, 21 years to hold on to power on capitol hill. very tough to do. >> the crazy thing, i think she can do it if she wants to. one of the big things on her mind in retiring is who her successser going to be. >> does she have a name? >> i'm not aware, if she does, i don't know it. she's still searching. right now hoyer is the overriding favorite to be the next in line if she goes. i'm not sure she would like

that. >> logically, i see how he would be because there's always been that divide. he's 75 years old and he's been there for a long time. i wonder if democrats would want to do that. my thanks to sahil and beth, as well. still ahead, former hostage terry anderson will join us to discuss whether the u.s. hostage negotiation policy needs to change. passing of a political icon. stay with us. curl up with their favorite man. but here's the thing: about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. and remember, you only take it when you need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours.

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er in 1978 and beloved by many as an anti-poverty cruseder and revered for his right in the civil right movement and underscored urban decay that

played out on his watch as mayor. what he was really known for was this. in 1990, he was arrested after the fbi videotaped him smoking crack in a hotel room. he served six months in prison for that and then returned to city government in d.c. in 1992 by winning a seat on the city council and then came the ultimate comeback. two years later in 1994 running for mayor, again. unseating the incumbent in the primary and winning back his fourth term as mayor in washington, d.c. fourth and final term as it turned out and after that marion barry returned to the city council in 2004 a seat he held until his death. dubbed d.c.'s mayor for life was 78 years old. kinda: we're new to the pacific northwest.

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killed the obama administration revealed that the u.s. launched a rescue mission. but because the u.s. has a policy of not negotiating with terrorists, when that mission failed, that's when the administration's efforts effectively stopped. isis is a terrorist group unlike any we've ever seen. one that not only demands exorbitantly high prices, but one that has demonstrated a clear willingness to follow through on its most gruesome threats. some americans, including some of the victim's family members are now opening questioning the wisdom of continuing with the current policy, the policy of never paying ransoms in the face of such a radical threat. if seems like they have gotten the attention of the white house. the white house confirming that president obama asked for a policy review of how the u.s. handles international hostage situations. but despite the policy review, they remain adamant that the u.s. will not waiver on its refusal to pay ransoms in exchange for the release of hostages.

the concern is that paying such ransoms would only encourage more kidnappings putting even more people at risk. what changes might the white house consider kidnappings. so what might the white house consider instead. what should it look like? what should be revised? while reporting in 1985, a journalist was captured by militants and held hostage for 2554 days. that's more than six years before his eventually release. he is now a professor at the university of florida. and he joins us now to share his very you news perspective on this. thank you for joining us. i really appreciate it. let me start with this basic questions about the ransoms. i hear about americans and brits held by isis and those released

and they were released because they're governments, other governments are putting up the money for the ransoms and getting them out. we're getting firsthand accounts of what peter kassig was talking about. what do you think of that policy in general of never paying ransoms? >> i agree with it. it's an extraordinarily difficult decision and policy to stick to in the face of families who want their loved ones back. but it is, in fact, the only thing that the government can do that is effective. the u.s. did pay ransom of a sort. during the lebanon hostage situation. they shipped some arks to tehran for three hostages who were released in that exchange. all three of them came out of the prisons where i was, and by the time the third one was

released, our hostage takers went out and got several more. you're setting up a market in hostages. beyond that, there are things that the government can do and should be doing. not paying ransom, not negotiating with does not mean not talking, does not mean that you can't try to convince the kidnappers to get proof of life or to somehow affect the situation. sort of paying ransom. most of us in lebanon were released through the efforts of the then deputy secretary of the united states who travelled to lebanon and allowed himself to be kidnapped repeatedly to talk to our hostage takers. he had nothing to offer them, and he said that, and it took awhile but he con vevinced them

that was the case that there was little they could get out of it and they let us go. isis is different. >> it is, and i'm curious about that too, when you compare your experience with your captors to what we're seeing right now from isis, when you look at that different, what do you see? >> isis is a new thing in this situation. we have not seen anything like this before. they're not only well organized and managed, but they're ruthless. how do you negotiate with someone like that. the fact is it is a guess, but we think the europeans paid up to $150 million to isis for hostages and that's a lot of money to get to a terrorist

organization. this is not an easy decision to make. it's not an easy policy to hold. nobody really knows what you can do that is effective short of paying ransom, but do we really want to be funding them to the tune of $150 million when we're spending millions of others of dollars to destroy them. >> i think of the family of james foley. they were told what ransom price tag was, they were interested in trying to raise that on their own if the government would not pay it, and the obama administration saying no, we won't allow that. look if it means the difference between seeing my son oar daughter again, there is no price i'm not willing to pay. >> of course, of course. they're willing to pay anything. but again, it goes back to the question of are you causing more

hostages to be taken when you pay ransom. the attitude toward families of hostage victims is something that the administration can change and should. they don't talk to them. they don't talk to them, they don't tell them anything. they basically tell them don't make waves, stay away from publicity, keep quite, we'll do what we can. that is not very helpful to the families. they can certainly change that attitude. >> i'm curious just based on your experience, families here right now, families in the uk who have loved ones, who are being held hostage, one of the letters really jumped out of at me saying i don't know whether to hope or not. i'm curious of a family over here, a loved one over there, what would you tell them about that experience and what loved one might be thinking and going through? >> peter was a good friend of my

daughter who is also a journalist. she works in lebanon from time to time. and she asked me that question. what do i hope for. i had to tell her there is not really much anything anybody can do and that's a hard thing to face. i have every sympathy for the family. i know what my family went through and the other hostages in leb non went through. they need to see that the government is doing everything in they can. whether or not they should be allowed to pay a ransom, that is a different question. but they certainly need to be kept more informed by the u.s. government to what exactly is going on. >> that's a good note to end it on, and something we have debated about ran sm, but thaw is something that can and should

be addressed, terry anderson, thank you for taking the time this morning. we'll see you next week here on "up," have a happy thanksgiving. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money?

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this morning, my question, can we separate a character from bill cost by. first, all eyes remain on ferguson, missouri. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. at this hour the wait continues in ferguson. it has been more than 100 days since michael brown was shot by darren wilson. it has been