this morning, my question, can we separate a character from bill cost by. first, all eyes remain on ferguson, missouri. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. at this hour the wait continues in ferguson. it has been more than 100 days since michael brown was shot by darren wilson. it has been more than 100 days

since his body was left in the street for hours. more than 100 hours since he was put on paid administrative leave by the police department, and more than 100 days since the community first asked for answers. now they're waiting a decision from a grand jury as to whether that officer, darren wilson, will be dieted. the grand jury is planning to meet on monday. multiple sources say that public safety units have eased back on their alert status. what is the late that's we know about what is happening with the grand jury and with activist in ferguson. >> we know that they will be meeting again on monday. we don't know if a decision will be made on monday or at a later point, but certainly the longer this thing is strung out, it's

taking more of a toll on business owners and residents. what do the words look like. jay nixon called for a a state of emergency. when you drive down, you see particle board in the windows of businesses, and it says open. >> obviously we're coming into next week, the holiday weekend the end of the week with thanksgiving on thursday, and black friday, some activist talking about now shopping on black friday, what if the grand jury does not return a decision before the thanksgiving holiday? >> well certainly you know protestors plan on spilling into the streets whether there is an

indictment or not, but as you mentioned, organizers are passing out fliers. i got one yesterday calling for is boycotts of black friday. they're saying don't shop at these shops on thursday, friday, saturday, or sunday. that is whether the indictment comes down or not. folks are gearing up and that includes boycotting these businesses. >> trymaine, thank you for your reporting. we'll come back to you in the next hour. whatever else ferguson is about, however broad the implications, at the most personal it is about michael brown's parents waiting to find out what happens to the man that killed their son. this week, the president's immigration plans are vast, but at it's most personal, it's

about families. it's about children worrying about their parents. the nearly four million mothers and fathers whose children are citizens or legal residents who themselves have no legal status and could be deported at any moment. like one one, her daughter appeared on our show earlier this year. she is 19-year-old, a student at the university of arizona, and an american -- i saw my mom being handcuffed and pushed into

a van and the door shut. >> she was deported. she was being held in a private detention center in arizona. cynthia protested her mother's deportation with a hunger strike. she did not eat for five days. three weeks after she came on our show, her mother was released and allowed to go home to her family. we sent a camera to record their emotional reunion. but although maria was released, the federal government continued proceedings to deport her and break up her family. the next hearing is scheduled for the summer of 2015.

until then she is in limbo. it is the kind of family that the president invoked this weekend. >> most undocumented immigrants are good, decent people, been here for a long time, and they're trying to support their families. they worship at our churches, their kids go to school with our kids. >> the united states carried out more than 70,000 deportations of immigrants whose children are american citizens. cynthia diaz was able to come back on our show a few weeks after her first appearance and her mother was able to come with her. >> she said thank you, and she hopes there are more mothers next to their children like she

is. i am pleased to welcome them back to the show, i'm so happy to see you this morning. is your mother affected by the president's decision, do you know yet? >> good morning, melissa. it was rough you know hearing president obama's speech saying that parents of american citizen can be eligible, except for those recent, my mom would unfortunately would not qualify. >> despite the fact that she was here prieeviously, because she s deported and returned she is not

eligible under this executive action. >> what is your next step if she is not covered? >> we're trying the best we can right now, we're with many organizations, my dad is in the process of becomes a citizen, so we're doing our best in our power to help my mom out, but we're also looking for the other families who were affected by obama's deportations because of his previous act. he affected a lot of families and separated a lot of people. now this relief was huge, but it's not helping us like we want it to. >> maria, do you have a respond to the president's executive action this week? >>. >> i was expecting -- i thought

it would help me. if it wasn't for being deported i would have been able to qualify for this. i have a daughter who is a citizen and a son who is a u.s. resident but right now i don't know and i'm worried they will leave my children again, thatly be separated once again. >> so that worry stays for your family. hold on one moment, i want to come out to the table, what does it mean that we have the celebration of this great act, finally some movement and action, but that the president seems to be gesturing towards this. >> there was no better feeling than seeing my 70-year-old mother smiling and hugging my nephews saying she was going to stay with them. it's so heartbreaking knowing that so many other parents will not have that assurance.

the president took great leadership, but they did not go politically and legally far enough. now we're seeing the consequences of so many people left behind. in arizona, they interrupted the president and asked why did you leave my parents or my mom behind. the reason i'm here and that we're fighting is for our families. we're going to continue to push congress and we're going to continue to push the president to protect our families. >> help me understand for one moment. certainly for the parents of children who are american citizens, natural iized or bornn this country. the dreamers, they are not protected? >> no, the. >> pam: was clear. they want to make the case to republicans that you only have to be an american family, you have to have a family citizen who is a citizen, but the

dreamers, with a bhoel family that is undocumented, was not included. that family is as american as any other family to me, as cynthia's family, i think we need to continue to push congress for legislation and remind the president that his job is not over yet. this is a great victory and we need to do more for the seven million people left behind. >> i agree, it was an incredible step forward. it was meaningful, and it will help families all the way across the country. they're just missing a piece of paper. the president is taking an incredible step forward but to close the deal completely we need congress to pass a bill. >> let me come back to you, this is tough because a lot of folks are feeling like this is going to repair the president's frayed relationship with latino communities, but knowing families like yours are left

out, how do you feel politically then about this president? >> it feels tough. mixed emotions definitely. i'm proud that obama is stepping up and doing something for those that do qualify, but last year and in the last couple years he did something that broke our family apart. if it wasn't because of that, we for sure would have been really happy and my mom would have stayed here and been eligible for obama's announcement. >> of course, we at every point here we have been so proud of the work that you have done as an activist. the president did a great thing this week but it was pushed by the activism.

>> thank you, i want to say something. our parents in our homes, we want to be with our families, and we cake here for a better future for our children. we do this for our children's better future. we don't like breaking laws, we don't like crossing the desert. but we have to do this because we want a better future for our children. we know we don't have that opportunity but we that want for our children. >> everything is for their family. thank you. >> up next, remember the

undocubus? their slogan then was no papers, no fear. many americans who have prescriptions fail to stay on them. that's why we created programs which encourage people to take their medications regularly.

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we have been covering immigration on this show for some time now. i der viewed an undocumented activist traveling the country advocating for immigrants rights. >> what are you doing here? >> we're sharing our experiences and also sharing our knowledge and how to fight for our rights against the police department and anyone that is attacking our community. >> torres and about 30 others

came out as undocumented that summer and toured parts of the country in what they called the undocubus. their slogan was no papers, no fear. he has continued his work as an activist for the rights of immigrants. joining me is jeraldo torres, can you talk to me about your continu continued activism and your work. >> we have been working with a number of grass roots organizations. we launched the one more campaign to stop the deportations. at the local level, we're working case by case with members of the communities and help them be released back to

their families so they can be back together while they're going through the process. >> the president has framed, as a political matter this political action, the issue of families. that presumes that everyone is in the same kind of family. one mother, one father, buy logical children, and you're doing work at the intersection of undocumented and ga and transgender identity. what difference do those identities make. >> i have to come out of the shadows and the closet. it afblfects me twice, as a ga n i don't have citizen children so i don't qualify for that. i was 21 when i came here, so i don't qualify because i think the age is like 16 years old.

so i was 21 and i don't qualify for that. >> stick with us. i want to come back to my table here for a moment. we see another category of people who are hard working, active in their community, who none the less get left out. part of what i'm wondering here is what is the next step? is it electoral action? holding the president accountable at the ballot box? what is the right next step? >> you said it earlier about coming out and folk that's you have seen on the show already, the activist leading the movement for political change, those of us here lucky enough to be citizens need to come out of the closets and the shadows to support this. we can't go back into the shadows. now that the president has come out with an incredible first step we have to back him up.

we have to hold folks accountable. i think the latino vote will be growing quickly. that action has created a clear line in the sand. are you with the community, are you with dreamers and folks on your show or will you push back? so we have to remind them of that. the last thing i will say is the latino victory project, with the idea of taking this activism and building political power, and we have folks that will run for office. >> and now you have a clear question to put to any candidate, will you or will you not sort of continue this executive action and expand it, or will you seek to end it when you come to office? >> i think it is about building electoral and political power. for me, my loyalties lie with my

community and family. the reason that we're fighting is for our moms, so for me, i'm going to challenge poll decisions, we're going to push them to make sure they keep protecting our families. we'll push congress, republicans, a lot of them are crazy and nutty and we will work to expand this executive action. this was a first step. he could and should do more and we will make sure we get there and pass a reform bill that will protect as many people -- >> i want to ask you one question. i know a lot of the work you were doing on undocubus was about the impact of state and local police. we're wondering whether or not this federal level action makes much of a difference on the front lines. how big of a difference does it make for those front line

interactions with police officers. >> for us, it is still a challenge, and it will probably be hard for us. when guy on a date with someone that i'm dating right now he says pay attention to the speed limit, pay attention to the road, and call me back when you get home to make sure that you're there. so our community, we're going to keep fighting for what is right. and we're not going to stop, this is just a little step to getting to the world that we want. >> thank you for being here. still to come this morning, the controversy involving bill cosby. says "easy like monday morning."

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one of america's most famous and controversial politicians, marion berry has passed away. he was a mayor of the nation's capital, he was a champion of poor communities. he provides jobs for young people and he helped elevate african-americans to positions in city government that had previously been reserved for white employees. he was also accused several things including substance abuse. he was caught smoking crack cocaine during an fbi sting. just four years later he was elected to his fourth term has mayor of washington dc. in july of last year.

marion berry was a guess on this program. we reflected on his come back and the power of redemption. >> in a black community, i think we're more forgiving than anybody. and also, you have to have courage. you can't be fake. you can't say i'm sorry, and please forgive me, you can't be fake about that, you have to be real, but you have to be real before you get there, and he was real before i got there. >> marion berry was 78 years old. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need.

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the story that i'm about to tell you is not new. it's a story that by some accounts is decades old. the headline of the story is this, comedian and actor bill cosby has been accused my multiple women of first drugging and then sexually assaulting

them. at least one of those accusations is of an assault that is alleged to have happened as long ago as the late 1960s. this first story became news nearly a decade ago in 2005. that year a woman named andrea constant filed a civil complaint suing for an unspecified amount of money. according to the complaint she met cosby in innovate of 2002 and came to regard him as a friend and older mentor. in january of 2004, she accepted an invitation to his home. the lawsuit claims that upon arriving at his home, constant told cosby she was feeling stressed about her career decision and he offered her three pills which he said were an herbal medication to help her relax. she claimed that shortly after taking the bills her limbs felt

impossible, she felt dizzy, weak, and only barely conscious. now i want to pause here to offer a warning because what constant says happened next may be difficult for some viewers. the lawsuit claims that after leading her to a sofa, he positioned himself behind her, touched her breasts, vagina, rubbed his penis on her hand. one year later, she reported her allegations to the police. the penn district attorney decided against filing criminal charges. this week, that same district attorney told nbc news of that decision, quote, i didn't say he didn't excite the crime, there was unsufficient evidence to base a conviction based on a

reasonable doubt. that is prosecutor speak for i think it he did it but there was not enough evidence to spursue the suit. cosby settled with her out of court for an undisclosed amount before any of the other women were able to testify. some of those chose to come forward and tell their stories in the press. just a month after andre constant's suit, another woman came out and said that she was drugged and groped by cosby. >> you feel like no one will believe you. the second element for me was very soon after this attack my brother was terminally ill in

the children's hospital and he went there and gave him a radio, gland hand glad handed with all of the children, he was the hero. >> by 2006, two women came forward about their alleged assaults by bill cosby. naming america's dad as the man who sexually assaulted them. the accusations have been hanging around in plain sight for years. readily available to anyone that wanted to know. they made a resurgence when accusations were made about woody allen for his daughter. when this video from hannibal

burress' stand up act was released online. >> it's sad, if you don't believe it, google bill cosby rape. >> the search spiked on google as more and more people took his advice. within weeks, barbara bowman, one of the original accusers wrote an opt ed questions the decades of disinterest in her accusatio accusations. and the first new accuser stepped forward and said she was drugged and assaulted by cosby in 1969. his attempt to reclaim the social media narrative backfired. for inspiration he posed this with the caption "happy monday."

and they flooded the meme hashtag with the sexual assault attentions. three organizations, npr, the associates press, and the philadelphia daily news have all done interviews with cosby in which he was asked about the claims. in each case, his response has been not to respond at all. friday his attorney spoke for him with a statement that read in part the new, never-before-heard claims from women who have come forward in the past two weeks with unsubstantiated claims have escalated past the point of absurdity. the action of his professional partners have been speaking volumes. they have all backed out of broadcasting upcoming cosby projects and tv land says they will no longer air reruns of the cosby show. this week while he is on the

road for his 26-stop comedy tour, many cities have canceled his appearances. according to the associated press and in the meantime, the update to that decade old news story is this, a total of eight women have come forward with claims of sexually assault. after years of responding with a shrug, now we somewhere decidha take notice. are all the green lights you? no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable.

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(receptionist) gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you print a label and it's automatic. we save time and money. time? money? time and money. awesome. awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome! (all) awesome! i love logistics. in 1992 a young woman add ni admired bill cosby and she was

invited to his las vegas suite. what happens next adds her to a list of women who say they were sexually assaulted by bill cosby. thank you so much for being willing to share your story with us this morning. can you tell me a bit about the experience that you had with mr. cosby. >> oh, good morning, yes. i met mr. cosby by writing a letting to him because i heard that an agency was holding auditions for ghost dad. i submitted a letter and a photograph and i heard from him right away. i was very excited about it. he put me on the phone with his office to fly me to new york right away. his office said they didn't understand why they wanted me to come so quickly because there was no parts available at the

time. but eventually i was in new york to shoot an ad, and mr. cosby and i often talked on the phone. i let him know they would be in new york and possibly he suggested we could meet and i could come on the set of his show. so i did go to his show, and it was great and he invited me to come back for a meal, and the whole cast was there. at the time, i be friended one of the cast members and he and i stayed in touch. >> i heard and red the stoad th you talked about. you said you're not someone that survived a rain or sexual assault. instead you said that there was another set of actions here, but

you believe them to be consistent with the other allegations that you believe coming forward. >> yes, there seems to be threats of similarities in the stories. i don't know the other women at all. i have never met or spoke with them. when i entered cosby's sweet in vegas, he wanted to see my acting abilities and he asked me to pretend i was intoxicated. i started acting as if i was intoxicated. as i was walking and stumbling, he poured an capitolic beverage for he, he said perhaps this will help you, i put it up to my mouth, and it was extremely strong. i'm not a drinker, not really. at least not that kind of liquor, i tasted just a little bit and i sat it down and i

proceeded to act as if i was intoxicat intoxicated. later he said to go into the bathroom and wet my hair. so i followed his instructions and i wet my hair and when i returned to the room he had gotten undressed and gotten into the bed. i went over and he proceeded, he got my hand, i sat on the bed, and he put lotion in my hand and that act took place. >> so, let me just read you a statement from bill cosby's tour who said it is illogical that so many people would have said nothing. for civil claims if they thought they would have been assaulted.

i'm an assault survivor. many people may not understand, can you help us to understand why you are telling now but didn't tell then. >> the reason i'm telling this story now is because when it surfaced, and i saw all of these ladies coming out, and cost by was not saying anything or acknowledging it, it kind of bothered me that it kind of made it seem like no one was going to listen to their story. i was not rained and i was not drugged. but i'm just thinking that me coming out now can help someone else in this industry, if it's a young lady, she should not go with a male alone for an additi addition. maybe cosby can get some help. it seems like he has, maybe a sexual addiction or something. if he got help maybe he would be fine and he could acknowledge

the mistake and everyone could move forward with their life. >> i appreciate you taking the time to tell us your story this morning. i'm going to bring in my panel for further discussion on this issue, next. there's a reason no one says

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we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. on friday, two men thatted that been in frizz for almost four decades for murder were exonerated after a key witness recanted his testimony. an ohio judge dismissed the cases against ricky jackson and riley bridgeman. the witness said his testimony was coerced by police. the legal system is not the only arbiter of guilt or innocence. as we have seen in the last few weeks, the court of public

opinion weighs in the public as well. cities drop off of his stand off tour and companies are backing out of his television projects. i want to be clear, bill cosby has never been caused with committing this crime. he has never been tried or found guilty in any court of law. as new accusations continue to emerge, the public is increasingly unable to avoid the question who do they believe. joining me now is whitney cooper, an asis assistant of women and gender studies. jill who is a senior political writer at kcosmopolitan.com. we're in a moment where there is

just the reality that not only has mr. cosby never been convicted, or even tried, he may never be, but that doesn't let us walk away from this. how do we begin to make a judgement about these accusations recognizing there may never be a court case or conviction. >> we're in a culture where we either believe women, or men can hide behind money and power and hide from crimes they allegedly committed. one of the troubling parts of the conversation is that many of these accusers are white women, that this is a lynching.

clarence thomas coined the term high-tech lynching. it is men who were put in jail, lynched for crimes they did not to commit, and this man is hiding and we have a mountain of evidence suggesting he very likely committed these crimes. >> it's hard to see it as anything other than we have one man, a strong interest in producting his identity, or we believe now more than a dozen women, and because we live in a culture that tends to believe and repeat in our popular culture that women lie, that they particularly lie about sex, that they lie about sex to protect their own identities and they lie for prompt believing one person versus 12, it's not that hard to see how many people end up believing the one over the more than one dozen. >> people seem to believe cosby

more than the women that have accused him of assault. this innocent until proven guilty standard in the criminal courts, which i'm receiving a lot of responses about, that is very important. but our criminal system is imperfect. not everyone who is guilty is convicted and not everyone convicted is guilty. i think as consumers of media, writers, and human beings we're entitled to look at the weight of the evidence and decide for ourselves. where are we putting our money and advertising dollars. >> dina, i want to read to you this piece saying courts belong to this society, not the other way around, ducking behind a

cowardace. it can be insidious. sometimes it is a physical fear, sometimes it's just taking the easy out. you're a lawyer. the presumption of innocence is very important. and yet courts belong to society, not the other way around. >> they absolutely do. in the court of law, you have the presumption of innocence. he can be silence. he can sit there, not say a word, and be found not guilty. we all know this. people make a decision based on all of the evidence in front of you. if it is one ackccuseaccuser, t find you guilt, but when 15 people come forward with similar

stories, i think the question is not criminal, but his reputation. he is remembered as a comedian or a rapist, and i think that is his punishment. >> cosby has been in the business for a very long time. we may remember him now as america's dad, but initially he was like the young up and coming, hanging at the playboy mansion, and he has been able to redevelop his narrative overtime. just as you look at that long trajecto trajectory, any sense of where he goes for managing that identity. >> he was never as joke orien d oriented. he told his writers to look through the scripts and if they found anything that seemed like a joke that would be funny on his own, cut it out because he

wanted the humor to come from the characters. more than most comedians, what people loves was separate. and no one has the right to be belowed by the public. >> i was to pause you right there. that's where i want to go after the break. can we separate huxtable from cosby and should we? coming up, more on the scandal, we're also going back to ferguson for a update, and we're going to meet a 11-year-old man who has more that you need to hear about ferguson. delightfulls morsels. in honor of our 75th anniversary, we're bringing you nestlé© toll house chocolate filled with caramel, peanut butter, cherry and mint. so peanut butter up some blondies and brownies. caramel-ify those chocolate chip cookies. and give that thing a hint-y

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millions of viewers set aside 8:00 p.m. on thursday night as a point to tune into nbc to spend a half hour with the huxtables. their ground-breaking portrayal of a up every middle class african-american family came from the joys of parenting. the show remains an aconic moment in american television history. it left cosby's portrayal of the family man, cliff huxtable imprinted in the hearts and minds of viewers. for many of them, cosby and his alter ego became one in the same. as ill vustrated in this philadelphia magazine. he was greeted by residents calling him dr. huxtable.

many of those fondly remember him as america's dad, to see him this week responding to an ap interviewers question about the sexual assault agencies and asking that response not be made public. >> there is no comment about that. and i'll tell you why. i don't want to compromise your integrity, but i don't talk about it. can i get something from you with that? that none of that will be shown? >> just two months ago, right here on "mhp." we, fully aware, none the less did not address them when we marked the 30th anniversary of the cosby show pilot in this

moment. the show had a lasting impact on pop culture. th some say that there was "the huxtable effect." >> now we're left, so many of us, come police sit and confused needing to separate the character we loved and the man who played him. joining me again is my panel. so let me start with you on that. you were saying there is a difficulty. i mean ennis cosby, when they lost their son, he was theo

huxtable, and they became the same person. >> and we kind of run the risk of making the same mistake as we did before. it was easy to look at the huxtable family and say that must be what bill cosby is like. now with the allegations, there is a feeling of wanting to go back through the show to see if there is enough clues in there. the person that did this must also be capable of what he was accused of. that doesn't really make sense. what he is accused of doesn't spring from what we see on the cosby show, and on the other hand, just because a comedian has picks we agree with, just because they have work that we agree with doesn't mean necessarily they're not capable of what bill cosby is accused of. >> this is something that we can

apprecia saying that only the most heinous, horrible, monstrous people could be capable of these accounts when many people who engage in predatory behavior are community activists, leaders, people we experience as nice, loving, and kind. maybe this will help us unpack that. >> absolutely, i watched "the cosby show" every thursday night with my mom, we have to ask what our investment will cost victims, right? we're seeing him in light of cliff huxtable, and he spent the last ten years using the political culture of the "cosby

show" to shame nontraditional families and that he has the moral ability to tell us how to live as black people. our investment that show, the characters, the power he gets from that show is the very thing that made it hard for the victims to come forward and feel like they have a fighting chance. so if we want to stop powerful men, we will have to say something. that is not an acceptable cost to pay. >> roxanne makes a similar comment, she says we don't want to believe women, or we don't want to have to believe women because it might complicate our own lives and our own preferred narratives. when, in the conversation with my daughters, be want to talk to her about some of the allegations and she says i'm never going to watch "the cosby

show" again. even i have been unable to say that, i am, myself, a survivor and never wanting to give up this cultural product that i love. >> i also grew up on cosby, i love the bill cosby show, i enjoyed those things, they helped to shape a certain narrative in the united states, that was important, it had an important cultural moment, but now that i know what i know, going forward, what choices will i make. will i watch a netflix special by someone who has a overwhelming number of accusations against him? will i give money buying this movie, music, or this sports game, whatever the case may be of these powerful men accused of doing terrible things. i think as consumers, making these choices is very important.

>> power is part of it, and it feels to me that part of it is theceps of genius, particularly male genius, which so freeshtly giv -- frequently gives space, or as one woman wrote, can we keep giving money to miles davis. he may have spent the day he recorded music to slap one of our sisters in the mouth. man, to give up miles davis, but what does it cost you, us, all of us if we elevate male genius over female suffering. >> to me it's not about that, it's about in our society, the idea of sexual assault against women is at epic numbers.

we know about the cases of famous people. it's going on every day, it's going on during this show. i know it is a challenge for people. people went to cosby's stand up show the ore night, a standing ovation in florida. are they co-- we want people to wear a sign that says i'm a monster. maybe they're not a monster, we have to get around that mind-set that people can compartmentalize. they can be one person in public and one person in private. >> and the challenge is we don't clearly know, and we don't clearly know because as long as there is a space for doubt, right? associated with the kind of court of law piece, it does

provide, right, it provides that out, it provides. stay with us, i want to go a little more into what britney was talking about there, that question of bill cosby and respectability. some of you know about that, some of you don't, we'll talk about it more when we come back. e same without your crescent rolls. we got you a little something. we got you jeans. it's about time. pipin' hot pillsbury crescent rolls. make your holidays pop!

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before bill cosby was back in the news, but after he left behind cliff huxtable, he was an arbiter of respectability for black america. he visited cities on a tour encouraging america's black underclass to claim personal responsibility over their lives. during that time is when he made

his now infamous pound cake speech where he called it like he saw it against what he called are the lower income people. >> these are not political criminals, these are people going around stealing coca-cola. people getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake. and then we all run out and we're outraged, the cops shouldn't have shot him, what was he doing with the pound cake in his hands? >> in this moment, that seem to have particular resonance as we wait to hear from the grand jury about the death of michael brown. you know, at the heart of some of this, he is an amazing

philanthropist who has given money to historically black colleges for african-american women. this is the kind of thing we want celebrities to do with their money. part of this is about the cultural product. the other part is what do we do with it respectability narrative. >> the respectability narrative won't save us. this is why i have not been here since 2004. i said to my mom, i was like based upon him, you would have been a bad mother, but you raised a ph.d as a single mother. his narrative does not allow for you. and this is my problem, and i'm wondering what spellman will do. it has to cost us something. when we think of male genius and what we allow for, i think about how the trauma of his alleged

acts might have killed or suppressed female genius. he didn't make space when he was exploiting their desire to do something greater with their lives. when people are victimized, that dr trauma has resounding effects. whatever he got from imposing that drama, and being able to hide behind the money. it has been costing these women something and this is question about what kind of society do we want to be. will we hide our monsters in plain sight? or is this a safe place to live no matter who violates you. >> i want to point out that people are always in plain sight. i mean this is in part sort of what we learned with the ray rice case. this is part of what we learned with the people who are our heros in a environment of

spaces. and i guess the part of it that, even as it is costing us something, what are the ethical ways to respond, right? i just, you know, he has a sort of relationship with ben's chili bowl, and virginia, the owner says, i am pained. he has been part of the family for many years. i have always found him to be very kind and generous. i would like to say he shares his humanities. that's real, those are her interactions. so what would we have a space, like spellman, $20 million, a space like ben's chili bowl made famous in part by their connection with this man. what would we have them to do that is a reasonable, ethical response in this moment? >> i think it is very

channelling, ray rice is not known for doing things with the community. bill cosby is a unique example. at the same time i ask myself why i did not believe the charges in 2005 and 2006. when women went on "the today show" and "people magazine." why didn't i -- why did it take now, and like the average person i assume in that way, now you wake up to it. now is the time to call people out and see how they will react. collectively they don't care. people did not care and when they do come forward they get attacked. >> and i wonder specifically about how it might tie into the respectability of politics. a narrative that says it's not political action, structures, it is just individual bad acts.

that's what the respectability narrative is. you can save yourself by acting right and pulling up your pants, but to see the allegations emerge in a way -- yes, we care about personal responsibility but there is all of these other things happening there. you know how bill cosby made white people feel very good about ourselves. it kind of abosolves us. it seems like what we're doing now is we're pitting these on bill cosby saying the places that profit from him or he profits from we want to be held accountable. i would also like a conversation about what sexual assault looks like and that he has so many accusers is pretty standard.

people can give money, be philanthropist, artists, and assailants, you know and terrible people, but that we know from various studies that men that commit sexual violence tend to do so serially. most men are not rapist, and the men that are tend to do it over and over again. >> thank you to jill, and dean and britney are going to stick around a little longer. we'll go back to ferguson, next. d with a favorite book is nice. but i think women would rather curl up with their favorite man. but here's the thing: about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection.

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darren wilson will be indicted for the shooting of teenager michael brown. people are making their voices heard. people have been on the front lines protesting, lobbying for change in the way their communities are policed. one of the leaders of this new generation is just 11 years old. he made national headlines this summer when he addressed the st. louis city counsel after police used tear gas to disburse protests in ferguson. he said the people of ferguson, i believe, don't need fear gas thrown at them. i believe they need jobs. they don't need to be hit with batons, they need people investing in their businesses. a real moment of clarity from a sixth grader who sounds like a seasoned activist. joining the able is seina and

vince, and marquis is also joining me now from ferguson, missouri. thank you for being here this morning. can you talk to me about how your community, you, and other young people are feeling right now as you're waiting to what the grand jury's decision is? >> well, i can't really speak for other people, but i would say that everyone is waiting. and mothers are having conversations with their sons about police brutality and things like that, and i'm on my heels as well waiting for the decision to come out. about the violence, i'm not sure they're having the right response and bringing in the national guard and things like that. i'm pretty sure that everyone is

waiting for this decision to come out. >> marquis, you had some suggestions when you talked to the counsel. you told them some things you thought the people of ferguson need, you're on tv now, what do you think the people of ferguson need right now? >> well, jobs is a big part about it. i spoke about the looting and things like that. i believe those people if they had jobs and things like that they never would have been out on those streets doing the looting. if we had a better education system, we could have had a better chance of getting jobs. i spoke about how people from other communities were coming in and taking the jobs we have. i think education is a big part of getting jobs, and so when we have a school district called river view, and normandy school district, both are failing school districts that are becoming major problems.

we have people trying to get jobs. i have an aunt trying to get a job and she can't find one. i know people personally trying to get job that's have had trouble getting a good education. and could not afford it. so i know people that have gone through those and i think that i'm more of an activist for them rather than for what i believe. >> let me ask you one last question. are you thinking that in your future, you're 11 now, some day you will be 18 or 21, are you planning to run for office? >> yes. >> right there in your community? is that your plan? >> yes. marquis govan, when you're ready to run for office, you let us know, wherever i am we'll make sure we let everyone know that you're going to run.

thank you for your activism and words today. >> thank you. >> up next we'll take a closer look at the grand jury weighing the case of officer darren wilson. [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, we know in the cyber world, threats are always evolving. at first, we were protecting networks. then, we were protecting the transfer of data. and today it's evolved to infrastructure... ♪ ...finance... and military missions.

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it's our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i'm watching you soup people. make it progresso or make it yourself it seems at least monday we'll be waiting for the decision. it is worth taking a moment to remind ourselves who we are waiting on and exactly what they are deciding. the st. louis county garage consistents of 12 jurors. nine of whom are required to vote for an indictment or "true bill." viewer than nine, no "true bill," no indictment. if there is the criminal charge continues on to trial. if not all prosecution ceases.

the grand jury decides to diet if there is probably cause for charges, a low standard referring to the reasonable suspicion that a crime, any crime, was committed. the next step, if the grand jury diets, a criminal trial will determine whether the defendant, officer wilson is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. that is a much higher standard that clearly establishes guilt. we have been told that, quote, the grand jury will be giving a range of potential charges. those charges, any of which the st. louis county jury could consider in this case include second degree murder. that would carry a 10 to 30 year sense. voluntary military service, that

could be five to 15 years in prison. and involuntary manslaughter in the first degree could be a four to seven year maximum. i want to bring in our guest who is live in ferguson right now. on the ground, are people starting to wonder why they have not heard from the grand jury yet? do people believe the grand jury is considering these options or is there is timing purposely going on at this point? >> good morning, you know it is interesting, people's perceptions seem to be really all over the map here. i came in on friday and i'm hearing that people don't want this to come out until

thanksgiving eve, all the way to people are just being deliberate and taking their time and trying to figure this out. i think the entire range of speculation if you can imagine it is probably someone believing it right now. >> sure, stick with us for a second. what do you think about this grand jury process. we don't really know what is going on but at this point what do you think is happening? >> i presented hundreds of cases to the grand jury and i brought in clients to testify as a defense attorney. this has been very different because all of the evidence is going in, right? usually there is very limited amount of evidence. a garage television is usually one tenth to one fifth. this is just simple math.

we have 12 jurors. nine are black. i also think that people are not recognizing how compelling it is when a defendant testifies. and here, you can correct me if you think i'm wrong, but as a defense attorney, you have so much given to you. you take all of that, you sit with your client, you spread it out and you create a narrative. >> michael brown was killed in this interaction, he is not there. >> i put a lot of people in the grand jury as well, and what is interesting about this is that darren wilson's story is being

told in great detail. the story not being told is mike brown's story except through the witness testimony. it's a question of how the grand jury -- the thing about juries is you can't really predict what they're going to do, they're trying to pull together this information, the witnesses that we think would have supported what mike brown said, what darren wilson is saying, and the expert testimony. and i think it is putting some evidence in there that is contradicting what some of the local folks are saying. >> so one of the ong things you can be sure of is that you can't be sure of anything but you have a pete that says officer wilson is going to walk. >> first of all, i'm not

advocating that position. . i have great sympathy in the fact that unarmed men are killed by the police and they're almost never convicted or indicted. my point is to look objectively, ter vi-- interviewing. and the statutory defense for the police officer in this case, and the sense that the grnl will side with the police. you're hearing from one person, yes, i was afraid. the fact that they will find on his side is very, very likely. >> i want to come back to you on this. one of the things we're hearing here, and has been part of our coverage is indict or not a

indict, but there is multiple options. do you have a sense on if it is a lower level charge, how that might in any way impact both the communities feelings and potentially reaction? >> it is a tale of two cities here. and it really is one side of town and another side of town. and talking to people in the press conferences on friday, it was a stark difference. we talk to activists, and we heard from attorneys, there was a great deal of skepticism for the potential of achieving justice, however it is defined, and a narrative about restraint from the community regarding a response to a nonindictment. people say it consistently.

we will be nonviolent. we went to the other press conference that was an hour later and you heard the opposite. you heard the county executive saying that the police would show restraight, but expressing skepticism that the people in the community would do the same. that gives you an idea of the goal here. >> thank you so much, i appreciate you being there in ferguson, missouri, and joining us this morning. we're going to keep all of these lawyers at the table, i have more questions for them and we're going to talk to someone else on the ground there. up next, president obama's message to the people of ferguson. than ever why now is the best

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this is president obama in an interview conducted by abc news. >> this is a country that allows everybody to express their views. allows them to peacefully assemb assemble, to protest actions they think are unjust. but using any event as an excuse for violence is contrary to rule of law. >> and for reaction to that we go to ferguson to speak with dr. robenson, president of the st. louis chapter association of black psychologists. you have been with us through most of this, we heard a lot from officials this week from governor nixon and the attorney

general, how have the emotions been on the ground. >> there has been mixed emotions. some people feel the community and the residents have been found guilty and that the focus has been found on them and their axes. so a lot of people are upset about that how the narrative has been switched and focuses on them. a few days have colored the movement and it has not been that way in such a long time. they made such efforts about training peaceful protests and nonviolent approaches. but i don't think they get the attention they rightfully deserve. of course everyone is on edge waiting to hear what the decision will be. >> i want to ask you one more question about this. folks may or may not know that grand juries are sequestered. that means these are people in

the community, 12 people who are going home. they can see the local news, they can read the local paper, they undoubtedly know what is happening in ferguson and the greater st. louis area. do you have any sense that the kind of stories or work or activism could potentially impact how the jury sees -- they talk about officer wilson had an opportunity to testify, but there is a testimony coming out of the community itself. >> definitely, you had several individuals that have tried to put together a timeline of what has happened, trying to make that other side of things known. they don't know what the grand jury members have tuned into. it has been very stark differences. if you have a member of the grand jury home and watching old footage from the first two days

of when michael brown was killed, that may color their opinion moving forward. we certainly would hope not, however, psychologically we know that images of violence can last longer in your mind than some that may be more peaceful. >> stay with us for a second, you were saying at the break there is quirks about the missouri law. >> the justification on the police officer's action. the grand jury will have that read to them. and dean discusses that that justification instruction is much broader than the supreme court allows. it's called the fleeing felon rule. they're saying maybe this person is dangerous but i can use deadly force. in 1985 they said no, you have to have probably cause of an

actual threat or danger, and missouri has not changed their law. so we have to wonder why they haven't changed it, and is this the impetus for change. >> it just still feels like such a crucial aspect of this, yes there is a grand jury, dwle is ferguson, yes there is missouri, but there is still a federal government that because it won the civil war still gets to weigh in on this, does the doj, if there is no indictment of any kind, do they still have the possibility of emerging on a civil rights claim? and can you handicap the likelihood of that occurs? >> yes, they have the ability to come in. i suspect what they're doing is waiting to hear what happens in the state case. they have the ability to file federal civil rights charges. i think to tie all of it

together, what is really at stake is to what extent do they believe it is okay for police officers to commit crimes. that's why people in the community say he is innocent without knowing anything. they have different narratives. people in the black community see it happening all of the time. people in the white community don't. i think that is what the grand jury is really struggling with. is it possible for them to commit crime on duty with a black person if is a watershed moment nationally for us to consider that question. >> britney, i want you to weigh in here to tie back the guilt, innocence, indictment, or no indictment, if he is indicted, if he is tried, if he is convicted, there may not be a

sense of justice. can we get to what we would consider a just outcome, not only officer wilson and michael brown, but the bigger thing that is ferguson. >> we have to have a conversation about the changing of policing. every day that i wake up, i see another black boy being shot by the police. it is simply too much, and if they don't bring down an indictment, these folks will be saying you don't respect the rule of law, why should with. that is not my advocacy for violence, but it is for us having laws that respect all humanity, black humanity included. >> dr. robertson, i have to let you go, but hearing what you are talking about in the death of a 12-year-old after i just spoke with an 11-year-old activist in your community just struck me. i want to say thank you for all

of the work that you're doing there. talking to marquis was such a joy. i appreciate the work that you're doing to try to keep that resiliency possible. >> thank you, we still are here to support the community. this is just the beginning, there is also the shooting death. there's a lot of work left to do. >> i also want to say thank you here in new york. to brittany cooper, and to vince warren, we are all, of course, still waiting. (vo) nourished. rescued. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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[coughing] dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. [coughing] hey amanda, sorry to bother you, but i gotta take a sick day. moms don't take sick days, moms take dayquil. the non drowsy, coughing, aching, fever, sore throat, stuffy head,

at this point, we do not expect an announcement today of a grand jury decision regarding whether or not to indictment police officer darren wilson in the shooting death of michael brown. sources tell nbc news that the grand jury now is planning to meet on monday. the public safety units and extra police scheduled to work saturday were expected to begin today. we now go back to ferguson, missouri, to get the latest from

msnbc's tremain lee. and i want to ask you about this bigger question of justice. obviously, we're still awaiting the grand jury. but a great piece this morning by joel anderson at buzz feed talks about michael brown's neighborhood, about the question of residential segregation. of a loss of jobs, of a relationship with the police that is deeply problematic. no matter what happens with the indictment. what is the work on the ground there in terms of impacting those big questions? >> see, that's, you know, the big multimillion dollar question, right? when you talk to folks in other communities, especially in the, you know, lower income work class communities, you know, folks say we don't know what justice looks like. we don't know what to ask for. they've never experienced it. never experienced a good relationship with the police. so while police leaders and some community organizers and leaders are working together to try to mend those wounds that have never fully healed and never been healthy at all, there still is deep distrust.

when you go the apartments, even after the killing as you wait for the grand jury's announcement, folks are stressed out. economically, folks have lost their job because they couldn't get out during the height of it. i spoke to one young couple. the woman is 19, her fiancee is 29 years old. she's suffered anxiety attacks, they can't break their lease, the management said they have to pay $1100 down. folks are stressed out. on one hand, they understand that michael brown could have been any one of them. they think could have been one of their relatives. on the other hand, all of the tension, the police activity, the protests have kind of paralyzed this community. and even before we get to those answers of those big psychological ideas of how to heal and what justice is. on the ground here, folks are stuck, and they simply don't see any way out. >> it's such an interesting point. that there is this kind of long version of being stuck around questions of residential segregation and this much more

recent version of being stuck literally as a result of this long, this long waiting that we are still in the midst of. thank you to msnbc's tremendoai lee. we appreciate your work. >> thank you. >> that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'm going to see you next saturday 10:00 a.m. eastern. but right now, it is time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> good morning to you and happy thanksgiving. we're going to look back at the life and political oddsy. also the shocking allegations of sexual assault at one of america's most respected universities and why it took a report by "rolling stone" to make it happen. and buying up bankrupt detroit. we're going to tell you just who is snapping up thousands of empty buildings at rock bottom prices. don't go anywhere, i will be right back.

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to improve. there's no way to say somehow they are worse now than they were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or 50 years ago. >> president obama opens up about ferguson, missouri, as that city awaits a grand jury decision. what's taking so long? the passing of a unique figure on the american political landscape, the rise and fall, and rise. a look back. buffalo melt, the struggle that is going on right now in that city to save homes and businesses. you're going to hear some of their stories. and "snl's" take on a saturday morning staple from years ago. you're going to see what really happens to that bill on capitol hill. hey there, everyone, it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." new anticipation today. two protesters