♪ >> what kind of bill are you? >> one day the republicans might create me so i could become a law. >> and how does a bill become a law? >> funny you should ask. first, i go to the house and they vote on me but then i need from the senate majority and if i pass the legislative test then i wind up on the president's desk and -- >> you know, son. there's an even easier way to get things done around here. it's called an executive order. >> i'm an executive order and i

pretty much just happen. >> oh my god. >> it's not quite "schoolhouse rock." >> good morning, everyone. it's monday. welcome to "morning joe." we have mike barnicle. >> the cigarette was a nice touch. >> managing editor of "bloomberg politics" and wes moore. a lot to get to. >> how was your weekend? >> it was good. jam packed. >> i have people -- >> we're going to have bill on. it looks like maybe a nor'easter. i swear. >> wednesday night. >> could have six inches of snow. >> we've been told to leave early, you and i, like today. >> we better go now.

i got a lot of family coming in. just to get ready. >> nonessential employees. >> the anticipation. >> go to the grocery store. >> put the chain on your tires. >> board up the windows. >> even i was impressed. wow. i watched it a few times. why do they keep showing that guy fumbling or not catching it and then i realize he did. >> what happened? >> i haven't seen it. >> he caught it. look at this. >> manning corner of the end zone. he gets fouled and still makes the catch. >> look at this. >> my gosh. >> if you look closely, he caught it with three fingers. his index, middle and thumb. >> that's clever. >> after a pass interference call against the cowboys. >> that's a rookie from lsu who has incredible hands and he does this in warmup all of the time.

practices snatching it with one hand. >> he must have inspired his team and carried them to victory. >> they lost. >> a lot to get to this morning. four major stories to get to just this block alone. ferguson, missouri, a grand jury is expected to reconvene to decide whether to indict the police officer who shot and killed an unarmed teen in august. the 12-member panel had still not decided by the weekend fueling anxieties in a city and across the nation. police are on high alert as protesters hold daily demonstrations to demand that darren wilson is charged for michael brown's death. demonstrators are also upset that evidence in the case may not be released to the public. religious leaders throughout the state are praying for peace regardless of the grand jury's decision. crime in black communities became the focus of a heated debate on "meet the press" between former new york city mayor rudy giuliani and msnbc

contributor michael eric dyson. >> 93% of blacks are killed by blacks. >> let me respond to that. >> i would like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this and the solutions to that. >> can i say this? first of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail and they're not sworn by the police department as agent of the state to uphold the laws. >> what about the poor black child killed by another black child? why aren't you protesting that? >> they go to jail. talk about the way in which white policemen have undercut the ability of americans to live. >> cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas? >> they don't have to be. it's a matter of the effect of the state occupying those forces. >> how about 70% of the crime in my city takes place in black cities. >> all right. this is a debate -- >> how about you reduce crime.

>> when i become mayor, i'll do that. >> white police officers wouldn't thereby if you weren't killing each other 75% of the time. >> wow. that was just ugly. wes, we have spent the past several months -- i certainly have repeatedly, mika has. everyone around the set has spent the last couple months very concerned about the overwhelming disproportionately white police force in ferguson expressing concern on how too many young black men are treated badly at the hands of white police officers in what we hope are isolated incidents but we fear in some places are not. i do want to say this morning though that i have a concern this morning about a police

officer whose indictment is now a prerequisite for peace. the pressure is building to indict, to indict, to indict. we don't know the evidence. we just don't know the evidence. it's not like trayvon where you had a guy chase a guy around a neighborhood and shoot him because he was black. we don't know the evidence here and yet everybody is demanding indictments. this is just -- we saw it on the clip. i can't believe it's getting uglier but it's getting uglier. >> or where an indictment somehow means that everything within the process has worked still underlying the fact there are challenges of trust and it's interesting. you've been watching the clip yesterday. mayor giuliani may be correct.

it doesn't miss the point that he's in many ways missing the point that dyson was trying to make. the decide that we do have tremendous problems with black on black crime. you look at a city like mine, a city like baltimore, where we are just ranked as the fifth most murderous city in america and the vast majority of it is situations where the perpetrator and victim look exactly the same. there is still larger issue of trust and trust between law enforcement and trust between the community that they're sworn to protect this still has to be understood. it's not just about helping the community. it's about helping law enforcement. for law enforcement, if you have a situation where the community that you're trying to serve that there's this underlying level of dissatisfaction or lack of confidence, not only physically dangerous for law enforcement, but in addition to that it keeps them from doing their job correctly because the best intelligence and best support to solve crimes is human intelligence. it's people in the community

that you have close relationships with. >> you have in ferguson obviously a situation where there can't be trust when you have an overwhelmingly white police force policing an overwhelming minority community. you have a mayor that said we don't have a race problem. >> massive disconnect. >> this is systemic. you want to make sure that everybody is protected. michael brown. and the family. and also make sure that the police officer gets due process. i don't know. that may not be a very fashionable thing to say. i'm hearing people say whether he deserves it or not, we have to have a trial. that's not the way the constitution works. if there is evidence to indict him and move forward, then for god's sake do it.

if there's not, don't. >> well, in places like this and on "meet the press," there should be room for a conversation to happen where as wes pointed out, mayor giuliani made a point that was legitimate and it may not be the most popular one. it may not be one you want to go on for an hour about but just like your conversation with claire mccaskill last week, there are aspects of this story that are concern. we can't call them white supremacist. >> we can't tell you what claire mccaskill called me on the phone. claire said i like joe but he's a real -- >> you were a little -- >> two syllables. >> is there an animal involved? >> yes. >> claire says it's a good thing i like him. >> it is a good thing because

you were. >> we need to follow-up quickly. mike barnicle, i read this in "the post" this morning. mayor giuliani is right. 93% of murders against blacks committed by blacks. 80% of homicide against whites committed by whites. whites kill whites predominantly. blacks kill blacks predominantly. i don't know why. that's the number. michael eric dyson could have just said you ought to clean up your neighborhood. you people and that's when everybody cringed. that you people thing. >> we could sit here and talk forever about this and we won't get close to the feeling of estrangement the black person feels when the cop car comes rolling down the street. we're not going to get there. it's endemic in life. it's there. you have to deal with. the other thing that wes pointed

out that's a pivotal piece of urban crime is the more black police officers mingle in the black community, the more the community is going to talk to them as a whole. the more they're going to find out who the bad actors are. >> it's like anything. it's buy in. it's buy in. if you work in an office, somebody takes over, and they come in and you don't feel like you have a stake in the future of the office or a stake in the future of the football team or a stake in the future of the school, if there's no buy in, you're not going to do it. why if i'm a 17-year-old black man in ferguson and 50 of the 53 cops are white, why do i have to buy in? wes? >> it's exactly right. you think about it on the military front where people ask why did it take so long to capture osama bin laden and we were able to get saddam hussein so much quicker. it wasn't because we had more

intel. it wasn't because we had more people on the ground. it was because saddam hussein was tipped off by his own people. the reason we were able to find him so quickly is because people were like, hey, he's in that spider hole over there. you don't have buy in. if you don't have buy in from the community at any level, you're never going to be able to accomplish your long-term goal which makes it incredibly unsafe for police officers. >> good for michael brown's father and president obama saying let's be peaceful regardless of what happens. i hope that's true and i hope police officers in ferguson decide not to use military-style weapons against protesters and protesters won't tear down their own neighborhood. >> and if they are really alert to the potential that we're all witnessing right now in ferguson with regard to the grand jury, release the grand jury report wednesday at 4:45. >> put everything out there. you don't do it before or after. get it out there. >> president obama says he doesn't expect to get a call to

campaign for hillary clinton should she run in 2016. he says while they're friends and talk often, it's likely she'll want to put distance between her campaign and his presidency. >> she's not going to agree with me on everything. and one of the benefits of running for president is you can stake out your own positions and have a clean slate. a fresh start. when you have been president for six years, you have some dings and -- >> you don't mind absorbing a few more if that's what it takes. >> the american people are going to want that new car smell. they want to drive something off the lot that doesn't have as much mileage as me. >> a new bloomberg poll shows president obama may not be as dinged up as he might think in one key primary state. his favorables are sky high in new hampshire as are hillary

clinton's. clinton holds a commanding lead ahead of likely democratic candidates in the state's 2016 primary. the same poll shows mitt romney up 19 points should he seek the white house a third time. >> are you surprised by that? 30 to 11. we hear more and more people talk about mitt romney. they're not talking about jeb. they're not really talking about rand. nobody talks about chris christie. when we're out, they are talking about mitt romney. it's crazy. >> new hampshire especially. he's still very, very popular in new hampshire. still has a vacation home there. visits there. is known there. >> i was down at the republican governors association meeting last week and, boy, is the party in need of a nominee. they don't love their choices right now and romney for a lot of people is a guy who can raise money who has done it before and they like him. >> we should stipulate anything about 2016 right now -- i don't want to use the word meaningless but close to meaningless.

do you think mitt romney would get in one more time? >> you say it's meaningless but think about where we are right now. it's almost the holiday season. we'll have people announcing pretty soon. we'll have debates within seven or eight months. i don't think it's that early. it's not quite a crisis for the party. but romney is a clear choice for a lot of people. >> so he's thinking about it? >> if jeb bush doesn't run, i think he will. >> if romney man he would be neck and neck against hillary clinton there in the general collection. without romney in play, chris christie and rand paul rise to the top of the field with jeb bush not far behind. >> they have a bench. >> they do. >> unlike -- do the democrats have a bench? >> no. they've got one big front runner. >> do they have a bench? >> she's their only hope right now. >> think about that in the future. i read columns about it. 70% of the state legislatures now controlled by the republicans. 65% of the governorships. you've got a lot of younger

members in congress. a lot of new stars have come in. two huge waves in '10 and then again in '14. that's a great question mika is asking about the bench. you get past hillary clinton, it falls off a cliff. the republican party because of barack obama over the past six years have built historic majorities in congress, most members in the house since 1929. in state legislatures, the most ever. 70%. and governorships. >> and there's nobody in the democratic party right now like the governor of illinois or governor schneider in michigan or john kasich, they have nobody in a big state projecting national leadership. she has a huge lead. the only people with leads like that are -- >> ted kennedy. >> and democrats are just bet on her because they have no other

choice. >> we need to put the asterisk there. ted kennedy 1980. we know how that turned out. >> i'll never forget one element of that campaign. st. patrick's day parade in chicago. it was a snowy cold st. patrick's day. people were throwing eggs at his vehicle pelting him yelling at he and his wife, joan kennedy. we get to the end of the parade route. he turns to me and says i think that went well. he knew it was over. he knew it was done. >> that's really funny. and ready for hillary has produced 3 million names in a data base that they are ready to hand over to the campaign as soon as she announces. >> i spent time with them on friday and they are a sophisticated group. the republicans to willie's point, it's early. if they don't identify someone to match up with her soon, they are going to be swamped by tens

of millions of dollars. >> you say they know how to win presidential elections. does hillary know how to win a presidential election? >> big question. she's going to have to step up. she will not lack for people who understand the rules of the game and how to raise money and how to make mischief in a republican nomination. >> someone made this point that the toughest opponent she ever had was in 2000 and rick was a good guy and good politician but ran a lousy campaign. >> barack obama was a tough opponent. >> that she won. the only time she put a w up on the board. >> i don't see how she avoids running at this point. the call has become historic for her. you could be the first woman president. you look at a poll like that that shows you with a 50-point lead, she runs and the question is who is she running against right now and that's something republicans have to figure out. >> she could win the texas pr e

primary and won some tough races against barack obama when she was down on the mat. >> it will be interesting what she, her campaign, learned from her last effort and how many of those rules they're going to apply. >> and where are we on jeb? is jeb going to run or not? what's the latest? what do you hear it he governors association. >> people go by number 41 and 43 don't know if he's going to run. i can't tell you if his brother and father don't seem to know. my gut is yes that in the end he'll do it. he gave a speech last week on education that suggested he was looking for a message to get out of this common core problem. if he's running, he's not running with great enthusiasm. i go back to the meeting last week where they are enthusiastic about jeb. they want him to run but they're not ready to march. it's just like he seems the strongest to beat hillary clinton so they are for him.

he's going to not only have to decide to run but step up. if he's not galvanizing tons of establishment support, he'll be in a really tough fight. really tough fight. >> let's move on here because a flood warning is in effect for parts of upstate new york that saw historic snowfall last week. this could be the real problem. after several feet fell in parts of the buffalo suburbs, temperatures have been rising. those conditions coupled with rain have residents concerned about roofs collapsing and basements flooding. high winds could also pose a threat to power lines. the national guard is on hand to assist local officials in the snow removal. let's go right to bill karins for the latest on this and the weather forecast this week. >> the weather forecast this week is the one on wednesday definitely a lot of questions and a huge impact for millions of people. we'll start with the buffalo. last night they actually fared pretty well. they didn't get a lot of rain.

a tenth of an inch not adding to the weight of snow on the structures. they went get much more today so they'll deal with high winds. mild to moderate flooding but not epic. that snow at 60 degrees will remain after this. this one is going to have significant travel impacts for millions on the busiest travel day of the year. it looks like this will be a nor'easter type storm coming up the coast. a lot of the big cities talking i-95 in here will start as rain on wednesday. if you want to do early driving wednesday, it will be rain in the big cities. as we go to wednesday afternoon, wednesday evening, the cold air will move in. it will go from rain to snow. d.c., baltimore, philly, new york and boston. the best chance for all snow and heavier amounts will be the favored areas interior sections, poconos, interior new england, northern connecticut through areas around there so wednesday

evening is not the time to be on the road. >> we'll have to cancel thanksgiving in the poconos. >> with jalapeno stuffing. canceled. >> that's a mess. all right. thank you, bill. still ahead on "morning joe," they dubbed him mayor for life. >> mike saying he has to go. >> i need to baste the turkey. >> our look at the life of marion barry, the late former mayor of washington d.c. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ music the volkswagen golf was just named

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>> let's take a look at the morning papers. new york daily news vladimir putin says he will not be russia's president for life. okay. in an interview with a russian

news agency, putin said a lifetime presidency is not right for the country and he'll step down in line with the constitution no later than 2024. putin can run for president again in 2018 and he did not say if he'll seek another term. >> "the wall street journal," a deal with iran over nuclear talks seems unlikely to occur before the deadline tonight but united states and other world powers negotiating are asking for an extension after more than a year of direct talks. on the table, getting tehran to scale back its nuclear program and in exchange the easing of those crippling sanctions. >> "the washington post" jonathan gruber has been called to testify in front of the house oversight committee. gruber was a key adviser when the affordable care act was drafted and video of him recently emerged referring to the stupidity of the american voter saying "lack of transparency is a huge political advantage." they'll look into inflated obamacare enrollment statistics.

>> they'll make him squirm. they'll make him miserable. >> hotel workers in los angeles will secure one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. $15.37 an hour. that's more than double the federal minimum wage. advocates for the raise faced opposition from business owners who say the increase means they'll be forced to layoff workers but the "times" cites a study that shows companies kept their employees despite higher rages by absorbing the cost through higher worker productivity and less turnover. >> sting will join the cast of his broadway musical "the last ship." he hopes his presence will drum up sales for the play. sting wrote the music and lyrics for the broadway show. >> that's a hard, hard business. >> that's a tough business. >> it's brutal. he's extraordinarily talented. i can't wait to see if he can

turn it around. >> "los angles times," "mockingjay" stars jennifer lawrence pulled in $123 million. a couple million bucks short of the projection but still a good number. rounding out top five was "big hero." my kids saw it this weekend and loved it. my wife loved it. she says it's one of those where parents enjoy it as much as the kids. >> i have to take my kids. >> have you seen "interstellar." >> i haven't seen it. >> i don't watch movies. i'm going to watch it. >> i'm told you have to see it in imax. >> christopher nolan is extraordinary. a couple shots here. beautiful shot on the front of "the washington post" here. isn't that great? >> marion barry. >> and katy perry constipated right here.

i don't know. look at the face. she's in pain. >> that's a smile. >> who sits on a boat like that? who sits on a boat like that? i think she needs to have some prune juice. what do you think? >> that's wrong. >> it's very unkcomfortabluncom. makes her face contort. that's what happened. "big hero 6." >> and kate is a huge fan of "hunger games" i'll have to take her this weekend. >> this morning we're going to give him the first word because his show is the last word. lawrence o'donnell. he joins the table. >> make sure his water is room temp and he has a latte for him. >> are you saying he's a diva? >> republicans won't officially take over the senate until the new year but they are working on

a plan to hold onto the majority in 2016. and then a look at today's must read opinion pages. don't go away. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further.

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time for must read opinion pages. we have the making of an imperial president from "the new york times." he says in part this, i believe that president obama was entirely sincere when he ran for president as a fierce critic of the imperial executive. so how did the man who was supposed to tame the imperial presidency become in certain ways more imperial than his predecessor? the scope of obama's moves can be debated but that basic imperial reality is clear. this president has been more willing to launch military operations without congressional approval, more willing to trade in assassination and more aggressive in his war on whistle blowers and journalists and at the same time he's been more aggressive than bush in use of

executive power to pursue major domestic policy goals. now most sweepingly on immigration. >> a lot of republicans ran around saying that he was an emperor and this and that. they used his own language. i'm not an emperor. i can't do this. i can't do that. the quote that keeps coming back to me the most is what he said. i know people want me to bypass congress and change laws on my own but that's not how our system works. that's not how our democracy functions. that's not how our constitution is written. we're a nation of laws. you look at all of the things he said and the way this has come

out and his very justification for doing this that congress hasn't done anything screams to the supreme court that they're going to have to do something on the separations of power issue. at least in my opinion. not that that helps the republicans because in a weird way that helps president obama even more because hispanics go, great, republicans are running to sue the president. we don't get legal status. they're going to have to do something in the end anyway. this is really troubling. >> this thing doesn't start for six months. there's tons of complexities for employers. if you're an employer, is it legal to hire these people? it's not clear. in the next six months the best case for the country and president is that republicans take him up on his offer and try to work out legislative solution and this doesn't go into effect. >> how can he veto something he doesn't like? >> exactly. >> try to work with him so it doesn't get to a veto showdown. >> he's actually put himself in

a worse position by doing this. the president said just send me something. just send me something. i had to do this because you didn't send me something. now they can send a bill -- now republicans can send a bill that is defined by republican values and he's going to have a lot harder time vetoing that bill because he'll say mr. president, you asked for a bill. we sent you an immigration bill. >> his signing the executive action order and jeff flake's comments with the ball in the republican court now is the perfect frame work for a deal of some sort to happen within the six months. the question is will barack obama sit down and cut that deal? cut a deal that's good for him and that the republicans can accept? this order, if you look at the order and read it and take it to the sidewalks where it occurs, i spent all day thursday in

lawrence, massachusetts. 74% hispanic city. and it's a very narrowly drawn executive order. >> that's the thing. it actually just creates a legal purgatory. i saw a piece on "meet the press" yesterday one woman interviewed said i'm going to college. i hope it's a two-year college. this thing only lasts three years and when the next president comes in, they can sign an order too. it's legal purgatory. to be honest, i don't understand why the president did it. it's a halfway measure. it's constitutional suspect. >> no health insurance. no path to citizenship. run the risk the employer will fire you once you admit you're here illegally. >> if you're an illegal immigrant, i have two years, three years where they won't prosecute me. do i really want to come out of the shadows to buy 2 1/2 years of freedom? i don't know that they will. i just -- i'll be honest, i just

don't get this move. >> do you think he's drawn out republicans a little bit? you had lindsey graham yesterday on one of the sunday shows saying shame on us republicans for not passing a bill. are we the party of self-deportation? some republicans say now it's time to do something. >> its almost like barack obama didn't -- i know he didn't figure out what happened in this election. he still thinks he's going against the party of christine o'donnell. no. it's the party of todd aiken. he thinks he'll be able to set up republicans like they were set up in 2010 to overreact. >> they're not crazy. >> it's not going to happen. the reason republicans won historically is because all of the crazies starting in alabama one. remember that race? all of the crazies got beaten whether it was in alabama one or mississippi. all of the extremists that would have loved to shut down the

government, republicans threw them away in the primary process. it's almost like the president brought a chainsaw to brain surgery. i think at the end if republicans are smart, and i think they're going to be smart, they box him in where he has to sign the bill. the pressure is on him to sign a bill practically, politically and constitutionally. if the president says give me a bill, it's not like the supreme court is not watching all this saying, wait, the president said this was unconstitutional for three years and you went ahead and did it and then he said i had to do it because republicans wouldn't do it? that separation of power problems and then the republicans give him an immigration bill. constitutionally it's going to put him in a horrible position to veto that bill. he may have boxed himself in. if republicans are idiots, they lose. i'm betting they may have learned -- >> you sound totally confident.

>> i think the party of cory gardner in 2014 and not the party of ted cruz. that was 2010. >> we'll see what they do. let's check in with michael allen, chief white house correspondent for "politico." one of the lead stories on the site looking ahead to 2016 but not the presidential race. you're talking about mitch mcconnell the man that plotted the republican takeover of the senate. you are looking at what he's doing to make sure they don't lose it a couple years from now. what's he doing? >> the big question is are republicans renting this majority? will they be able to keep it for more than two years? it will be tough coming up in 2016. they have 24 seats up including a bunch in swing states, blue states, democrats only defending ten seats. so last week mitch mcconnell called up all of the senators who are up in the cycle and had a meeting with them and said you need to be working on this now. you need to hire staff because there's going to be so much

competition from the 2016 presidential campaigns. you need to raise money. you need to think about tech. and some of the staff did a presentation for them about how much tech has changed since these guys last ran in 2010. and so they told him that they need to be started now. they came out. they feel good that there aren't going to be a lot of retirements but big names up including john mccain who signals he'll stay. rand paul is up. marco rubio is up. >> as you look at that map or possible at least that the senate flips again in two years? >> very much so. in fact, before this election, people assumed it would. republicans did so well they have a seat or two of padding. one thing they want to change is they are talking about forming a new super pac to funnel republican money in one place. it was split up this time. they want to be more efficient. >> mike viqueiallen, thank you much.

all fraternities at the universities of virginia have been suspended since january. the author of the piece in "rolling stone" will be our guest this morning. up next, he came to washington with a knack for politics and social change and was undone by controversy and credits corruption and then made an unlikely political comeback. a look at the legacy of the former mayor of washington, d.c. marion barry next.

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the more you switch, the more you get. verizon. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ washington, d.c. lost one of its most caontroversial leaders yesterday. d.c. mayor marion barry passed away at the age of 78.

congratulations, mayor-elect. welcome to the show. >> thank you for having me on. >> how do you put together the legacy of marion barry? >> it's a storied one. marion served our city for four decades and 16 of those years as mayor. so he's done a lot for our city. fought hard for the residents of the district of columbia and all the while he had some problems but on balance he's been a fighter for washingtonians. >> the problems were very real for sure. wes moore has a question from baltimore. wes? >> absolutely. good morning, mayor-elect. >> hi. >> a couple of facts about marion barry that a lot of people don't know. one is that despite everything, he's never lost an election in d.c. and another fact is it's difficult to understand the stories of don peoples and bob johnson and many others who have also become very successful businessmen without understanding the role that

marion barry played in their life. can you talk a bit about what his legacy is in terms of wealth creation and opportunities that were created for washingtonians going forward? >> marion was very committed like i am to making sure that this city serves all its residents and growing the middle class. he was committed to making sure we're growing good jobs in the district of columbia. many times they were government jobs and making sure that young people had an opportunity to get a government experience and be able to get a job in the city to raise our families. we joked often he built middle class of prince george's county, maryland, nearby the district of columbia. to this day if i walk through any neighborhood in the district of columbia or see one of our 30,000 employees, often times they'll remark they got their start with mayor marion barry. >> mike barnicle? >> i would like to ask you something about marion barry and the district itself which for

years suffered under lack of home rule under the thumb of congress. it seems to me that marion barry symbolized something in that area, in the district of columbia, that is nearly universal. it is this. that people no matter the follies that you encounter, no matter the flaws that you might have, people understand and respect the get up syndrome. you fall down. something happens and you get up and you continue. it seems to me that marion barry really symbolized that for the residents of the district of columbia. yes or no? >> he absolutely did. i think that we are a city that supports people and gives them second chances and he definitely was a comeback kid. but you also point to our lack of home rule before 1974. it's also critical to say that we still don't have full

democracy here in the district of columbia. marion was also a fighter with eleanor holmes norton and myself and thousands of d.c. residents to make sure that we do have a voice and a vote in the congress. >> mayor-elect, thank you so much. come back on the show sometime. thank you. >> thank you. i would love to, mika. thanks, everybody. so marion barry had as many good quotes asowi yogi berra. here's a good one. this is quoting job 121 to explain his plan for snow removal after a 1995 snow storm. the lord giveth and the lord taketh away. he said i am more popular than

reagan. i'm in my third term. where is reagan. gone after two. and finally people have criticized me because my security detail is larger than the president's but you must ask yourself are there more people who want to kill me than who want to kill the president? i can assure you there are. >> my gosh. okay. coming up, taylor swift was presented with a special american music award from a music legend. her message to a woman that paved the way and what she had to say about spotify when we come right back. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪

the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further. a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke. for years, jim's medicine tied him to a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but now, with once-a-day xarelto®, jim's on the move. jim's doctor recommended xarelto®. like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce afib-related stroke risk. but xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, that doesn't require regular blood monitoring. so jim's not tied to that monitoring routine. gps: proceed to the designated route. not today. for patients currently well managed on warfarin,

there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. xarelto® is just one pill a day taken with the evening meal. plus, with no known dietary restrictions, jim can eat the healthy foods he likes. don't stop taking xarelto®, rivaroxaban, unless your doctor tells you to. while taking xarelto®, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious bleeding, and in rare cases, may be fatal. get help right away if you develop unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. jim changed his routine. ask your doctor about xarelto®.

once-a-day xarelto® means no regular blood monitoring, no known dietary restrictions. for information and savings options, download the xarelto® patient center app, call 1-888-xarelto, or visit goxarelto.com.

the big news announced last night. katy perry doing the halftime show for the super bowl in arizona. >> i hope she gets better by then. >> there was some story about people are going to have to pay -- performers will have to pay to do the super bowl. >> i don't know. >> then they get paid back by pepsi or whatever. >> it's worth it for them. >> katy perry was a big winner at last night's american music awards. she won three of them. she won single of the year.

i don't know what single was. it was single of the year and taylor swift -- what was the song? which one. >> no one knows. >> we're all old. >> we can tell you that 20 songs taylor swift had but katy perry had single of the year. >> taylor swift. >> google it. >> look in the control room for one second. people are clueless. >> dan is a news man. >> dan, check out the google. >> still nothing. wow. >> that was four years ago. >> that was in "madagascar 2." >> taylor swift was presented with dick clark award of excellence by diana ross. >> wow. >> i'm so blown away to have just received an award from

diana ross who just over the course of her career stood up for herself so many times in a time when it was not popular for a woman to stand up for herself. i'm so honored. thank you for coming. you're beautiful. to the fans who went out and bought over a million copies of my last three albums, what you did by going out and investing in music and albums you're saying that you believe in the same thing that i believe in. that music is valuable and that music should be consumed in albums and albums should be consumed as art and appreciated and i love you so much. >> there you go. >> that's incredible. >> how great is she? seriously. she's a heavy-weight champ. >> and katy perry's single was "dark horse." >> thank you. >> better late than never. >> let's hum it. >> coming up at the top of the hour, snow is clearing in buffalo but it could create even

more problems for upstate new york. we'll go live there. plus, senator ted cruz has plan to punish the president for taking action on immigration on his own but chris wallace has found one big flaw in his plan and lawrence o'donnell joins the table when we come right back.

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bill karins by wednesday just in time to pack your patience for the holiday. welcome back to "morning joe." mark halperin still with us and lawrence o'donnell joins us at the table. is everything okay. do you need anything? can i get you coffee? >> in constitutional? >> my gut, which we shouldn't rely on, did not think so a couple weeks ago as it was coming forward. how can he create a whole new class of beneficiaries. started asking that question on tv and as usual smarter people than me gave me the answer. here's where it begins. you will like where this begins. >> i know i will. >> it begins with john lennon. john lennon's immigration case when nixon tried to deport him. >> i love pop politics. this is great. >> it creates case law about the

kind of prosecutorial discretion they were using secretly. lennon found out through freedom of information act his great lawyer found out that they were using this secretly and lennon said, wait a minute. you can't do that. as an agency they had to encode a policy as to how you use prosecutorial discretion and that's where it began and then in the 1986 law, which is the last one we passed on immigration, they specifically used two words. he's not saying he's changing the status of everyone but on this particular applicant, we're going to defer action for what appears to be an indefinite period of time. he says temporary. we don't know. >> they can renew. >> go to 1986 law and you'll find it in writing in law that if you have deferred action, you can work. the agency has the authority to issue work permits to anyone who

has deferred action. it has had this authority for decades. reagan used that authority. this is really clear stuff. >> it's not. if it were that clear -- >> wait a minute. i said it's clear. >> debate is over. very good. >> you brought in john lennon so that's a total trump. you know, the supreme court two years ago gave the president a pretty good present in arizona versus the united states where the supreme court said when they were overturning parts of the arizona law, listen, the president has broad discretion in who is prosecuted and not prosecuted. the problem that i think the court will have to grapple with is how the president went about this. if the president said we have 11.3 illegal immigrants. department of homeland security tells me i can only deport 400,000 a year. we don't have resources. i'll focus instead -- this is what dhs said in their legal

opinion. we'll focus instead on border security, on national security, and on public safety. this is a resources issue. that would have been fine. >> we were talking about the speech. >> the problem now -- we're also talking about the president's logic and what the president said. this doesn't happen in a vacuum as you know the supreme court, roberts especially, he looked over the landscape before affordable care act in obamacare and he said, listen, there are voting booths out there. you guys elected this guy. there's going to be another election. we're in the going to do your job for you. i think given all that's gone on, the president himself in many cases saying this is unconstitutional. instead of saying this is about enforcement saying this is about politics. those mean republicans haven't given me a bill. this is inhumane. what about whatever. and that actually -- words matter. that will are harder for the court to get around.

>> here we agree. i didn't like the president's speech about this because i actually thought that this one time -- people wouldn't have wanted to listen to it. it should have been legalistic. the big question -- the question i had ten days before he was doing it was is this legal? he didn't answer that question. >> he exposed himself. if he had talked about -- if he used legal reasoning that his justice department gave him saying this is about enforcement and limited resources, this is where we're going to focus and not only would he have been completely in the clear because there's a lot of case law that confirms what you said, he would be completely in the clear. by not following that language and being legalistic, he's opened himself up. >> but not to real legal challenge. it has nothing to do with real legal challenge. >> i think you have a bigger question about separations of power and the president -- >> there's a complete legal grounding in what he's doing.

he gave a speech disconnected from the legal grounding. he didn't give the legal memo speech. >> mika is telling me to stop this. i will only say that if you go back and you look at youngstown in 1952 and you look at jackson's concurrence and i'm going to shoot you an e-mail about this. they have a test on whether these executive orders are legal or not. and when they're not legal, when they are open to legal challenge, is when the president does something that's against the stated will of congress. doesn't even have to pass congress. >> actually, within immigration law, this is all within the stated will of congress. all within discretion congress specifically willfully gave to the executive. it's different from youngstown. >> then this conversation there's a lot of choices in terms of how the republicans respond. they could pass a bill that could do a number of things. senator ted cruz is doubling down on his suggestion that

republicans block confirmation of president obama's nominees until he pulls back the executive action on immigration. but on fox news, chris wallace pointed out that blocking the president's picks means attorney general eric holder whom senator ted cruz wanted would stay. >> would you leave eric holder in the job? >> in my view the majority leader should decline to bring to the floor of the senate any nomination other than vital national security positions. now, that is a serious and major step. it is a power the majority leader has and nobody else has any ability to alter. if the majority leader announced that, it would impose real consequences on the president and the administration. >> mark halperin? >> well, republicans still don't have a strategy. they are divided about how to deal with this. i think the legal strategy may be best. could they get something from the supreme court if they find

someone withstanding? >> i don't see -- right now -- i'm turning -- >> that's the biggest challenge. we can debate the legal but the biggest challenge time and time again is finding a plaintiff with standing. >> my new legal question to republicans is tell me how legally you can challenge this? i don't know. >> if they found someone standing and got it to court quickly, the supreme court might because they are result orientated and there may be five votes to strike down a big part of this. >> the weakness here is again finding somebody withsta standi and heads are spinning right now and they are looking at immigration agents right now to say people whose job it is to enforce the law but i don't think the supreme court would say somebody who is an employee of the federal government has standing to complain about how enforcement is used.

maybe it's somebody -- maybe they find someone that would have had a job. >> or a state that saysed becau somehow. >> the president is following your advice. he's moving 150 miles per hour right now and republicans are totally divided. ted cruz at this point has the most coherent response. >> what i loved about that response is clearly no one on team cruz thought about, yeah, eric holder is still the attorney general. if i don't confirm that one. that pause was the longest pause i've seen. >> i would not judge the republicans by how they respond now. you are exactly right about the president moving forward quickly. i would wait and see how they respond in january. when they come back, if mitch mcconnell and john boehner don't have a game plan on immigration, then that is extraordinarily damning and it suggests they're going to be just basically paddling in a circle for the

next two years. >> it has to be an optimistic plan. >> it has got to be a positive plan. he said, okay, let's look at good parts of the senate bill that republicans like in the house. border enforcement. making sure that -- let's make it worker based. so we bring people into our country that we need. that the chamber of commerce says we need. and then on top of that, go ahead and grant three-year work permits to 5 million illegal immigrants, undocumented workers. if they did that, that would put the white house on the defensive. >> do you think granting 5 million work permits clears the house and clears the senate and gets to the president's desk? >> i don't know. i don't think there will be a pathway to citizenship there. we'll see if there's not a pathway to citizenship if

democrats will support that. i think it's fairly limited. i think what the president has done -- that's the headline we're talking about. what the president has done is fairly limited. >> it's all based on family unification and everyone in it actually already is on a path to citizenship. they are parents of american citizen children and when those children turn 21, they get to do an application to make their parents -- >> john boehner's argument to the house has to be simple. unless you guys are going to quadruple or increase the department of homeland security budget ten times, and you're going to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, which wyou'e not going to do because there are people in your districts and your states that like having illegal immigrants there working. if you want to do that, do it. if not, sit down and shut up and let's figure out a way to actually move forward with a way that doesn't make us lose the

hispanic vote by -- what did mitt romney lose the hispanic vote by? 40 something percent. >> a new bloomberg poll shows president obama may not be as dinged up as some people think he is. at least this is in one primary state. his favorables are sky high in new hampshire among democratic voters as are hillary clinton's. clinton holds a lead ahead of likely democratic candidates in the state's 2016 primary. the same poll shows mitt romney up 19 points should he seek the white house a third time. if romney ran, he would be neck and neck with hillary clinton in a general election. without romney in play, chris christie and rand paul rise to the top of the primary field with jeb bush not far behind. lawrence o'donnell, what do you make of this republican field and the idea that mitt romney is being courted to run again. >> every once in a while, a party doesn't have anyone and

you end up with michael dukakis as the nominee or bob dole as the nominee. mike dukakis was the best shot they had. they didn't make a mistake. bob dole was the best candidate the republicans had. that was the problem. they didn't have someone who could beat bill clinton who was running and this is what you're looking at in those numbers is because we don't have anyone, mitt romney looks pretty good in a comparative sense. that's about not having anyone. >> i don't know about that, lawrence. i think he's been proven right on a number of issues over the long haul and secondly things have been so sort of -- people are so fed up with things not functioning, they want someone who is competent. >> why after john kerry lost and ran a pretty great campaign came that close with an incumbent president, why did democrats say we're done with him? they had someone better at that time. >> who do republicans have better than mitt romney right

now? >> i don't know. it's a rationale outcome to a bad situation. >> we could all say 1976 wasn't ronald reagan's time. ronald reagan was a joke in 1976. i remember watching "all in the family" and one of my favorite moments was when archie after jimmy carter one, archie was depressed and meathead runs out and archie yells that's fine but you're going to get reagan in '80. it was a huge laugh line because ronald reagan was considered a joke. four years later ronald reagan won. >> romney is not a talented candidate. >> i will say the one thing that nixon didn't have was in 1960 warning kennedy about vietnam and warning kennedy about go down the list of things. mitt romney has that actually. with all of the chaos that -- reagan was talented but he won in 1980 because we were actually

watching welfare state creep to a halt and blow apart and democrats, independents, republicans were ready. there is chaos now across the globe. mitt romney is more of the father figure, more of the ike figure. >> you can reasonably assume he either knows how to deal with challenges of being the rich candidate and answer those things that hurt him last time or that those things become old news and they just don't play the same way as they did that last time. >> another number in this poll about cares about people like you. which party's nominee cares about people like you in 2016. tied in new hampshire amongst general election voters. romney got creamed in the last election. the parties are tied. which party's nominee in 2016 will care about people like you?

romney is doing better in that than he did against president obama because he's even with hillary clinton. with republicans right now, that's the most important thing. they need a nominee to bring that across. can romney do that better than he did last time against hillary clinton? i think he can. >> if you have mitt romney against hillary clinton, a woman who has been in public office one way or the other since 1978, who is worth over $100 million, who every time she speaks she gets paid $250,000 from state colleges that she once represented who goes to goldman sachs and delivers speeches and says you guys are okay. by the way, we like goldman sachs. you guys are okay. but i'm not a democrat trying to run around the country saying i care about you but that rich mitt romney doesn't. no. there is a divide between barack obama and his story and barack obama and his story but is there a divide between hillary clinton and her story and mitt romney?

>> not currently. the car elevator argument goes away. >> i got one of those by the way. >> hillary would have one if she wants. i want the other side of this. he's being pulled in that direction by a lot of people. does mitt romney, does ann romney, want to go through a presidential campaign again at this point in their life? >> yes, they do. it's a fever that doesn't go away. >> what's the famous quote? >> it's like having sex. you don't just do it once and say i'm done with it. >> i also heard that harold said running for president is the easy part. stopping running for president is the hard part. mitt romney succeeded in everything he's done in his life. i think he probably wants to succeed here too. >> i think he has a sense of duty actually. >> i think he does too. >> lawrence, stay with us. >> i'm desperately available. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> what do i have to do is 7:30 in the morning. >> nothing good.

nothing good. >> anxiety is high in ferguson, missouri, as that community waits for the grand jury decision in the death of michael brown. we'll go live to ferguson next. plus, new concerns that some vials containing ebola may have fallen into the wrong hands. where this happened and who officials believe stole the virus next. ♪ (holiday music is playing) hey! i guess we're going to need a new santa ♪(the music builds to a climax.) more people are coming to audi than ever before. see why now is the best time. audi will cover your first month's payment on select models at the season of audi sales event. visit audioffers.com today. right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month.

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time to look at the morning papers. "the new york times," afghanistan's new president has lifted the country's ban on night raids used to catch taliban insurgents. they were banned under president hamid karzai as afghans found them intrusive. raids will resume in 2015 and will include american special ops units in an advisory role. president obama signed off on an

expansive role than previously announced. three astronauts docked at the international space station this morning. they were onboard the space station in less than six hours. about the same amount of time it takes to drive from houston to new orleans. this marks the second time in 16 years two women are aboard the iss at the same time. the three crew members joined three others already in orbit. >> the guardian bandits who robbed a taxi had blood samples that were infected by ebola. they stole them from a van en route to a testing site. health officials say it only underscores the number of challenges they face in uphill battle against the disease. >> this morning a grand jury is expected to reconvene in missouri to decide whether to indict the ferguson police officer who shot and killed an unarmed teenager in august.

the 12-member panel had not decided by the weekend fueling anxiety in the city and across the country. live in clayton, missouri, nbc's craig melvin with the latest. craig, good morning. >> reporter: willie, good morning to you. the seven men and five women that grand jury set to reconvene behind me in a few hours at the justice center in clayton. what we do not know is whether they will actually be voting today. they could very well continue to consider evidence. tensions continue to mount here in this community but so do prayers for peace. rain soaked protesters took to the streets once again. amid pleas for calm and understanding. >> prayer and protest are both the expression of the unheard. >> reporter: at well springs church, prayer for a grand jury decision. >> it's kind of like waiting for a hurricane. we don't know whether it will be

a bad hurricane or if it will just kind of die out in the ocean. >> in jesus name we pray. >> reporter: for some it's been waiting and wishing for different decisions before any potential storm hits. >> it's disheartening to know preparation is boarding up and calling in the national guard versus walking down canfield drive and engaging residents face to face. >> reporter: captain ron johnson insists officers have been doing just that since the sometimes violent clashes between police and protesters in the wake of michael brown shooting. >> they've had conversations and had meetings and been talking and there's been understanding. >> reporter: few here seem to understand why it's taking so long. >> there are cases where a grand jury needs to go over several days but to have it stretch for as long as this jury has is really unusual. >> reporter: so months ago the county prosecutor said that if

the grand jury does not indict officer wilson he would go to a judge and ask the judge to release virtually all of the evidence related to the case. yesterday we heard from a court administrator who said that may not happen. that's the latest from here in clayton. back to you guys. >> craig melvin in missouri. thanks, craig. coming up, all fraternities at the university of virginia have been suspended until the new year. the author of the explosive "rolling stone" article that led to that major decision joins us next. the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta...

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so mary is free of that monitoring routine. for patients currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. xarelto® is just one pill a day taken with the evening meal. spinach? grazie! plus, with no known dietary restrictions, mary can eat the healthy foods she likes. don't stop taking xarelto®, rivaroxaban, unless your doctor tells you to. while taking xarelto®, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious bleeding, and in rare cases, may be fatal. get help right away if you develop unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems.

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one of the most elite universities in the country is under the microscope after an article about sexual assault on campus and inaction by officials. peter alexander joins us live from charlottesville, virginia, home of the university of virginia, peter? >> reporter: good morning to you. this is the fraternity where the most violent of those alleged sexual assaults took place. this graphic article from "rolling stone" has sparked

outrage and backlash across campus about the college community and more specifically the administration's handling of sexual assault on campus. on the university of virginia's campus a silent show of outrage with students sticking dozens of notes on the admission office doors like expel rapists and a pile perform rocks representing a sexual assault survivor. students and faculty voiced their anger in protest this weekend. >> this is an intolerable act that needs to end now. >> the university is reeling after an article in "rolling stone" magazine. just last week, the university asked charlottesville police to investigate. with the uva's president announcing suspension of all fraternities and related social activities for the rest of this year.

>> i think the community needs to do some serious soul searching about the way that it has behaved and the behavior that's tolerated and what the future is going to be. >> reporter: the house was the target of vandals after the article's publication is promising to cooperate with any investigation saying the acts depictsed in the article are beyond unacceptable. they are vial and intolerable. uva is under scrutiny by the federal government which announced title 9 investigations of the university and 54 other schools for their handling of sexual assault complaints. as students prepare to head home for thanksgiving, many are demanding their school's culture change. >> clearly something is not working and something is not right. people are getting hurt over and over again and that has to stop. >> reporter: the statistics are alarming nationwide. one in five students, this number from the white house, one in five women is sexually assaulted during their time in college. a short time from now we'll hear

from student leaders who will address the administration's decision to shut down greek life through the first days of january as well as about the article itself. >> peter alexander, thank you very much. joining us now from philadelphia, the journalist who broke the story for "rolling stone." sabrina, thanks very much for being on. i guess first of all, tell us what you discovered. what happened in that fraternity? >> well, i met a young woman named jackie. she's a junior now. when she was a freshman, she was invited on a date to a fraternity house where there was a party and while she was there, she was lured upstairs into a bedroom where she was gang raped by seven men while two other men, including her date, watched and gave encouragement. she told me that she eventually took this report to the administration and the administration did nothing. they actually continued to do nothing even when almost a year later she went back to the

administration telling them that she had become aware of two other women who said they too had been gang raped. >> why did she say uva administration did nothing when she went there and told them that she had been lured upstairs on campus fraternity and gang raped by seven men. >> university of virginia has a manner of dealing with their student victims in a way that's common in colleges across the country. they have different options they can choose from. different things to pursue. they can pursue an in-house investigation. they can call the police. or they can do nothing and all of these things are presented neutrally. this is a new way of presenting victims with choice, which in theory is a nice idea but in practice what winds up happening is that these very traumatized

students who generuinely don't know what to do are reassured that doing nothing is a fine option and they choose to do nothing just as jackie did. >> so the choices were just given to her neutrally and there wasn't an investigation into a gang rape? >> not only was there no investigation but the campus administration also decided that there was no reason to warn the rest the campus that there had been multiple allegations of gang rape against a fraternity that continued to hold parties every weekend. >> two questions here. one, in terms of the university of virginia's approach to victims that they have multiple range of choices to pursue. why not just stick with what happens in real life and not on a campus that if you are raped, you go to the police and the police pursue it and charge or not charge the rapist? that's one question. the second question is, if you could, tell us about the number of women who have since come forward since the "rolling stone" piece appeared to

buttress what is happening on this campus? >> well, to answer the first question, in an ideal world, everybody would go right to the police and police would handle it and then it would be prosecuted and the rapist would go to jail. unfortunately in the real world, very many women go to police and they discover that it's a humiliating experience. these cases are often turned away and in fact it might surprise you that a lot of women that i spoke to in my article did wind up beginning their cases by going to police and they were turned away. these are complicated cases. departments without expertise don't want to deal with them. so that's number one. and so they need a lot more training in this area if we're going to get serious about prosecuting rape. to your second question, i have

been flooded by e-mails and voice mails since this article came out from other students who say this experience of jackie's of rape on campus and being silenced and their case not going forward is familiar to them and rings true. >> sabrina, you right about another young woman in your piece named stacy who actually did go through the process and had courage to come forward and had the hearing for the man she says raped her. he was expelled from school. she thought the monster is gone. i don't have to look over my shoulder. he's not on this campus anymore. he was "expelled" for one year. it was a suspension effectively. how harsh are penalties at uva and colleges across the country and why are they not harsh? >> at uva there is no true penalty for sexual assault. very few cases actually make it through these disciplinary hearings and the punishment is

usually just kind of a slap on the wrist. this suspension, this one-year suspension that this one man had is just about as harsh as penalties get. uva has never as far was we're aware expelled anybody even though they regularly expel people for academic infractions like cheating on tests. >> look at the suspension. for anybody that has been around a fraternity. i tried to join a fraternity. it lasted about a week and a half. shock of all shocks. i don't join things well. they're suspending them through january the 9th. thanksgiving is coming up and then exams and then christmas. talk about -- this isn't even a slap on the wrist. they're not having parties at fraternities from now to january

9th. they need to suspend them for a year. the fraternities in question because you can tell how fraternities are treated by how powerful the alumni are, how powerful is this fraternity and do they have a powerful network of alumni to protect them? >> this is actually considered one of the most powerful fraternities on campus. it's one of the wealthiest fraternities on campus. their house has the best real estate. they have distinguished alumni. one of their alumni is woodrow wilson who is not around to help them now but many of their alumni, they go to wall street, they're in politics, they are very influential and so, yes, they are a force to be reckoned with. >> that explains a lot. sabrina, thank you so much. >> great work. the piece is online and in the new issue of "rolling stone"

magazine. >> it explains a lot. powerful fraternities who have powerful parents who are powerful alumni who give lots of money to the universities. sometimes they just kind of get away with a slap on the wrist. >> uva is a wonderful school. >> extraordinary. >> somebody has to step up. we heard the president of the university saying the greek system needs to take a good look at itself. you're the president of the university. do something. >> i don't get fraternities. i went to a college that didn't have any fraternities. all i know is "animal house" and this. >> their rich parents allow them to get away with murder on a lot of college campuses across -- >> just abolish them. >> up next, the deadline is rapidly approaching for talks with iran on their nuclear program. the likelihood a deal will get done ahead and more allegations

against bill cosby and "the washington post" speaks to a handful of women making claims against the comedian. the author of that article joins us ahead. stay with us. a secure retirement. a new home. earning your diploma. providing for your family. real associates, using walmart's benefits to build better lives for their families. opportunity. that's the real walmart. you pay your auto insurance premium every month on the dot. you're like the poster child for paying on time. and then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal... until your insurance company jacks up your rates. you freak out. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? hey insurance companies, news flash.

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at new america foundation, suzanne, thank you for being with us. it looks like this deadline for the deal, we're not going to make it, are we? >> today is the deadline. it's been exactly one year since the last agreement was reached. i spoke to a source in vienna where the negotiations are going on and it looks like it will be an extension. >> they'll have an extension. >> yes. >> an extension in power those in israel that have been talking about a need for attacking iran's nuclear capabilities? >> over the recent weeks we've been hearing some more moderate voices out of this israel. i think with this extension those who are in favor of a more military approach to this problem will raise their voices once again. >> lawrence, netanyahu is actually saying that he's happy that deadline is coming and going and they're not reaching a deal. >> he's never really wanted a deal.

can we talk basics? in your view, what does the united states have to fear from iran? >> well, i think because of iran's history, let's not forget that twice over the past decade they have cheated. they've been discovered to have a program. so the caution about this is justified. however, if we look at the achievements over the last year with this agreement iran has ceased enrichment at 20%, which is the level that is easy to weaponize. beyond that, they eliminated their entire stockpile of enriched uranium which is the most dangerous portion of their program so in essence we have suspended any advancement of their nuclear program not to mention the intrusive

inspections now on the ground. the past year has been a significant accomplishment. >> when we talk about what's been accomplished, what's the sticking point? what are obstacles that means this extension has to go on? >> i think it's funny. there have been few leaks out of the negotiations but what i'm hearing is two major sticking points are the capacity of iran's enrichment program, exactly how many centrifuges will they be able to spend and how sanction relief will unroll. iranians want everything front loaded and united states says, wait, this has to be an incremental approach. >> thank you so much. are you optimistic? >> i am optimistic. there's no other solution to this problem. the military approach just would be disastrous. >> all right. >> huge progress has been made already. this is huge progress. >> suzanne dimaggio. thank you so much. appreciate it.

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nbc sports anchor, co-host "men in blazers," blah blah blah, sex pistols music. joey with the first question. >> arsenal/man u, we all figured they blew it. how did they manage to do it this time? >> two slumbering giants. they're meant to be winners. one team is going to lose this game. and a real crisis. wou who would it be, who? we've got wayne rooney. >> what's he wearing? >> arsenal had all the dominance but couldn't convert. their frustration boiled over. look at this. tiny squaring up. manchester united couldn't even mucher a shot on goal but the honest truth is they didn't need to. in the 56th minute -- we're showing it again, the little fight. look at this, he wants to breast feed. >> don't say that. >> oh, my lord.

>> breastfeeding fellini. >> what are you doing? what's he doing? stop nuzzling. >> look at that. >> in the 56th minute, united still not got a shot on goal. they didn't need to. arsenal. >> own goal. >> oh, the pain. it would get worse. as united pressed forward. united caught them on the break. this is wayne rooney, england's finest. he actually made no mistake here. do not look into his eyes. terrifying celebration. this man is 75% -- turns to stone if you look at that, thomas, look away, look away. >> you look at these two former giants. a pretty ugly game. it's amazing. you basically -- out of 20 teams, you have three teams playing well right now. that's it. >> things could be worse though.

you could be at liverpool. >> oh, my god, let's go to liverpool. liverpool. this is such a nightmare. what's happening? >> they're playing solid. as well as crystal palace. they scored first but they scored too early. and then the australian would call that thunder from down under. 3-1 to crystal palace. joe, last season liverpool was second. was it all just a happy delirious feverish dream? however sad it is in america, it could be worse, you could be a liverpool fan. >> obviously suarez being gone is bad but danielle sturridge, we've been told he's going to be out for the next three weeks. rumors out that brendan rogers, not happen. this is a guy who does not want to play football for liverpool.

>> they have no pace, they have no speed, they have no cutting edge. apart from that, they're fabulous. they're proof that in sport, as in politics, narrative can flick in a heartbeat. >> what's happened to the team? >> there's a player who mika love, the one who bites people. he had such speed and terror up front. he left them. without them, the red sox ownership spread a lot of bats with incoming players. >> we got transfer window coming up in january. what does liverpool need? >> they need a lot of firepower. i mean, we saw a great two minutes. but beyond that, it was a nightmare. girrard looked old. sterling's clearly burned out. >> if the red sox owners are watch, sign a young american called jozy altidore.

>> you said he was a st. bernard chasing a beach ball. >> how words come back. >> we look at the lineup. anybody going to touch chelsea? >> the question is are we going to win the premier league by 20 points, more, less? >> so confident. >> that is a confident guy. man city. they come back to the second half of the year. they come back to make young joey eat his words? >> five wins, they're currently fifth. the team up north freezing all the men. >> you say new castle is -- >> america needs more of that. you say new castles of jersey shore, of england. >> exactly. all right, roger bennett, thank you. joey scoarborough, thank you. defining justice in ferguson. we're going to take a look at the major questions surrounding this case while the community waits for the grand jury findings.

and then hillary clinton and that new car smell. president on the theoretical democratic field for 2016. "morning joe" will be right back. just take a closer look. it works how you want to work. with a fidelity investment professional... or managing your investments on your own. helping you find new ways to plan for retirement. and save on taxes where you can. so you can invest in the life that you want today. tap into the full power of your fidelity greenline. call or come in today for a free one-on-one review.

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well first i go to the house. ♪ and they vote on me ♪ but then i need from the senate ♪ ♪ a majority ♪ and if i pass the legislatist test ♪ ♪ then i wind up on the president's deck ♪ ♪ and i ow, ow, ow! >> son, there's actually an easier way to get things done around here. it's called an executive order. ♪ i'm an executive order ♪ and i pretty much just happen ♪ >> oh, my god. >> old school house rock. >> remember the salad song? okay. good morning, everybody. it's monday, november 24th. welcome to "morning joe." >> that cigarette was a nice touch. >> cigarette. >> managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. in baltimore, best selling author and combat veteran.

major stories. in ferguson, missouri, a grand jury is expected to reconvene to decide whether to indict the police officer who shot an unarmed teen in august. the 12-member pannal had still not decided by the weekend. police are on high alert as protesters hold daily demonstrations to demand that darren wilson is charged for michael brown's death. demonstrators are also upset that evidence in the case may not be released to the public. praying for peace regardless of the jury's decision. crime in predominantly black communities became the focus of a heated debate on "meet the press." between rudy giuliani and msnbc contributor michael eric dyson. >> 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks -- >> let me respond to that. >> i would like to see the

attention -- >> i'd like to see the attention paid to that that you are paying to this. >> first of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail. number two, they are not sworn by the police department as a gent of the state to uphold the laws. >> what about the poor black child killed by another black child? >> those people go to jail. >> why don't you protest that? >> i do protest it. they go to jail. -- undercut the ability of americans to live -- >> -- so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas -- >> they don't have to be. it's a matter of the effect of the state occupying those force, sir. >> how about 70% to 75% of the crime in my city takes place in black cities -- >> -- i think this is a debate -- >> how about you reduce crime? >> when i become mayor, i'll do that -- >> wait, let's not make this -- >> police officers wouldn't be there if you weren't killing each other -- >> wow. that was just ugly.

we let's -- we have spent the past several months. i certainly have repeatedly. mika has. everybody around the set has spent the past couple of months very concerned about the overwhelming disproportionately white police force in ferguson. expressing concern on how too many young black men are treated badly at the hands of white police officers in what we hope are isolated incidents but we fear in some places are not. i do want to say this morning, though, i have a concern this morning about a police officer whose indictment is now a prerequisite for peace. and the pressure is building to indict, to indict, to indict.

we don't know the evidence. it's not like trayvon where you had a guy chase a guy around a neighborhood and shoot him because he was black. we don't know the evidence here. and yet everybody's demanding indictments. this is just -- we saw it on the clip. this is just -- i can't believe it's getting uglier but it's getting uglier. >> or where an indictment somehow means that everything within the process has worked. still underlying the fact there are still challenges. challenges of trust. it's interesting, you've been watching the clip from yesterday with mayor giuliani and michael dyson. specifically, mayor giuliani might be correct but that still doesn't -- he in many ways is missing the point dyson is trying to make. this idea that we do have tremendous problems with black on black crime. i look at a city like mine, a

city like baltimore, where, you know, we're just ranked as the fifth most murderous city in america. vast majority of it is situations where the perpetrator and the victim look exactly the same. there's still a larger issue of trust. and trust between law enforcement and trust between the community that they're sworn to protect that still has to be understood. it's not even just about helping the community. it's about helping the law enforcement. because for law enforcement, if you have a situation where the community you're trying to serve, there is this underlying level of dissatisfaction or lack of confidence, not only is it going to be potentially physically dangerous for law enforcement, but in addition to that, it keeps them from doing their job correctly because the best intelligence, the best support you can get for helping to solve crimes is human intelligence. it's people in the community you have close relationships with. >> you haven't -- in ferguson, you've got a situation where there can't be trust where you have an overwhelmingly white police force policing an

overwhelmingly minority community. at the same time, you have a mayor -- remember when the mayor came out after all this and said we don't have a race problem? >> right, massive disconnect. >> this is systemic. you can see why there's anger there. you just want to make sure that everybody -- everybody's protected. michael brown -- >> but i think places -- >> -- and the family and also make sure that the police officer gets due process. i don't know. that may not be a very fashionable thing to say. i'm hearing people say, well, whether he deserves it or not, we have to have a trial. no, that's not the way the constitution works. if there is evidence to indict him and get -- and move forward with it, then for god's sake, do it. if there's not, don't. >> well, and in places like this and on "met the press, there should be room for a conversation to happen. where, as wes pointed out, mayor

giuliani made a point that was legitima legitimate. it may not be one you want to go on for an hour about. just like your conversation with claire mccaskill last week, there are different facets to the story that are of concern. we can't be seizing upon each other and calling them white supremists and everything else and lower the conversation immediately here. it can't happen. >> we also can't tell you what claire mccaskill called me on the phone -- >> well, you are, so she's right. >> claire said, i like joe but he is a real -- >> yes, you were a little -- >> three syllables? >> two syllables. >> i think your timing was off. >> first syllable. >> hee-haw. >> no, seriously, it's a good thing i like him. >> it is a good thing because you were. >> mike barnacle, yes, read this in the post this morning. that mayor giuliani's right. that 93% of murders against blacks committed by blacks.

80% of homicides against whites committed by whites. it is -- whites kill whites predominantly. blacks kill blacks predominantly. i don't know why. that's the number. michael eric dyson, instead of calling him a white supremacist, could have just said, you ought to clean up your neighborhood. you people. that's when everybody cringed. sort of that you people thing. >> we could sit here and talk forever about this and we're not going to get close to the feeling of estrangement. that many in the black community feel towards when that cop car comes rolling down the street. we're just not going to get there. >> no question. >> it's endemic in life. you can say whatever you want about it. it is there. the other thing that wes pointed out that is clearly a pivotal piece of urban crime is the more black police officers mingle in the black community, the more the community is going to talk to then as a whole. the more they're going to find

out who the bad actors are. >> it's like anything. it's buy-in. if you work in an office, somebody takes over and they come in and you don't feel like you have a stake in the future of the office or a stake in the future of the football team or a stake in the future, you know, of the school, if there's no buy-in, then you're not going to do it. why, if i'm a 17-year-old black man in ferguson and 50 of the 53 cops are white, why do i have to buy in? >> none. >> it's exactly right, think about on the military front. people will often ask, why did it take so long to capture osama bin laden but we're able to get saddam hussein so much quicker? it wasn't because we had more intel. it wasn't because we had more people on the ground. it was because saddam hussein was tipped off by his own people. the reason we were able to find him so quickly is because people were like, hey, he's in that

spider hole over there. if you don't have buy-in from the community members. i don't care, at any level. you're never going to be able to accomplish your long-term goal. which makes it incredibly unsafe for police officers. >> good for michael brown's father and for president obama for both saying be peaceful regardless of what happens. i hope that's true. i hope police officers in ferguson decide not to point military-style weapons at protesters and that the protesters don't tear down their own neighborhood. >> if they're really, really alert and they ought to be alert to the potential we're all witnessing in ferguson with regard to the grand jury, release the grand jury report wednesday at 4:45. >> yeah, do it. >> put everything out there. don't do it before. >> the night before thanksgiving. >> speaking of president obama, he says he doesn't expect to get a call to campaign for hillary clinton, should she run in 2016. he says while they're friends and talk often, it's like we want to put some distance between her campaign and his presidency. >> she's not going to agree with

me on everything. and, you know, one of the benefits of running for president is you can stake out your own positions. and have a clean slate. a fresh start. when you've been president for six years, you think you've got some dings. >> you don't mind absorbing a few more if that's what it takes? >> no, i think the american people, they're going to want that new car smell. they want to drive something off the lot that doesn't have as much mileage as me. >> but a new bloomberg poll shows president may not be as dinged up as he might think. his favoritables are sky high in new hampshire. among democratic voters. as are hillary clinton's. clinton holds a commanding lead in the state's 2016 primary. the same poll shows mitt romney up 19 points. should he seek the white house a third time.

>> mike, you surprised by that? 30 to 11? we're hearing more people talk about mitt romney out there. we're not talking about jeb. not talking about rand. nobody talks about chris christie. when we're out, they're talking about mitt romney. it's crazy. >> in new hampshire, especially, he's still very popular, still has a vacation home there, visits there, is known there. >> although i was down at the republican governors association meeting in boca last week and, boy, is the party in need a nominee. they don't love their choices right now. romney, for a lot of people, is a guy who can raise money, has done it before and they like him. >> we should stipulate anything about 2016. i don't want the word meaningless but it's close to meaningless. do you really think mitt romney will get in one more time? >> you say it's close to meaningless. you think about where we are now. it's almost the holiday season. we're going to have people announcing pretty soon. we'll have debates.

i actually don't think it's that early. i think it's a crisis for the party. romney as a clear choice for a lot of people. if jeb bush doesn't think he'll run -- >> if romney ran, he would be neck and neck in the general election. without romney in play, christie and paul rise to the top with jeb bush not far behind. >> is jeb going to run? >> theme got to bench -- >> yeah, they do. >> on, like -- i mean, do the democrats -- >> they've got one big french runner. >> do they have a bunch? >> no, that's it. >> think about that in the future too. i read some columns about it too. 70% of the state regulators now controlled by the republicans. probably about 65% of the governorships. you've got a lot of younger members in congress. a lot of new stars have come in. you've got two huge waves in '10 and then again in '14. that's a great question mika's

asking about the bench. you get past hillary clinton, it falls off a cliff. the republican party because of "businessweek" other the last six years have built historic majorities in congress. most members in the house since 1929. in state legislatures. the most ever. 70%. and governorships. >> like the governor of illinois or snider in michigan or john kasich. they've got nobody like that who's sort of projecting national leadership. the only people who have had leads like that are ted kennedy -- and she's -- people -- democrats just bet on her. >> we need to put the astrerisk there, ted kennedy, 1980. >> one element of that campaign, the st. patrick's day parade in chicago.

it was a snowy cold st. patricks day. yelling, he, his then wife joan kennedy. the end of the parade route and turned and said, well, i think that went pretty well. you knew it was over. >> that's really funny. and ready for hillary has produce like 3 million names in a database they're ready to hand over to the campaign. >> and they're sophisticated. the people around here on friday, i spent some time with them. they are a sophisticated group. a lot of understanding of how to win republican elections. yes, it's early, but if they don't identify someone to match up with her soon, they're going to be swamped by tens of millions of dollars. >> you say they know how to win presidential elections. does hillary know how to win a presidential election? >> good question. she's going to have to step up. she will not lack for the people

would understand the rules of the game, how to raise money and how to make mischief in a republican nomination. >> somebody made this point, willie, last week, that the toughest opponent she's ever had was rick lasio in 2000. he want a lousy campaign in 2000. the only time she put a "w" up on the board. i don't see how she avoids it at this point. the call has become historic. you look at a poll like that, that shows you with a 50 point lead. the question is, who's she running against right now. it's something republicans have figured out. >> i mean, she won some tough races against barack obama when she was down on the mat. >> it's going to be interesting to see what she, they, her campaign, learned from her last effort. and how many of those rules they're going to apply.

>> where are we on jeb? is jeb going to run or not? what do you hear? >> i tell you, i know two people would go by the numbers 41 and 43 have told people in the last week, they don't know if he's going to run. i feel a little less embarrassed i can't tell you if his father and brother don't know. my gut is yes. he gave a speech last week on education that suggested he was looking for a message to get out of this common core problem. if he runs, he's not running with great enthusiasm. this rga meeting last week. there's like lobbyists who want him to run. they're not conscripts in an army. they're not like ready to march. it's just like he seems the strong et to beat hillary clinton. he's going to have to really step up. because if he's not galvanizing tons of establishment support, i think he'll be in a really tough fight. >> still ahead on "morning joe," a rock and roll legend heads to

broadway but we'll tell you why his arrival is not necessarily a good thing. and then is vladimir putin ready to relinquish his power in russia? what the russian president is saying about his future plans. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning to you, joe and mika. we're in for an active three or four-day weather pattern. now in the northeast, in the great lakes. show in chicago and milwaukee this afternoon. we have a possible big snowstorm right in time for the busiest travel day of the year. airport delays really aren't that bad considering it's pretty windy out there. buffalo had very little rain last night. which is great because it got soaked right into the pack, didn't really weigh it down a lot. temperatures will cool off after being very warm today. so that's good. we have snow melt from here. i mentioned that snow, it's now breaking out in central illinois around peoria.

you will get a little bit later. as far as the snow event and the storm in the northeast, winter storm watches north and west of new york city. into hardford, the wooster hills. 6 to 10 inches possible. rain to snow on wednesday. the big cities, i-95. inland further, the higher elevations will get more accumulation. i do think it's the poconos, the interior sections there of the berkshires. that's 48 hours away. things could shift. still amazing the airports are doing that well in new york city. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪

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let's take a look at the morning papers. vladimir putin says he will not be russia's president for life. okay. in an interview with a russian news agency, putin said a lifetime presidency is not right for the country and that he will step down in line with the constitution no later than 2024 but putin can run for president again in 2018. he did not say if he will seek another term. >> the w"wall street journal," deal with iran over nuclear talks seems unlikely before the deadline tonight. united states and other world powers negotiating are asking for an extension after more than a year of direct talks. on the table, getting tehran to scale back its nuclear program and in exchange the easing of those crippling locations.

>> "the washington post," jonathan gruber has been called to testify in nt frfront of thee oversight committee. help w he was an adviser when the obamacare bill was drafted. recently videotape of him saying lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. the same committee will look into inflated obamacare enrollment statistics. >> that's going to be a clown show. >> they're just going to make him squirm. they're going to make him miserable. >> "the new york times." some hotel workers in los angeles will soon secure one of the highest minimum wages in the nation. $15.37 an hour. that's more than double the federal minimum wage. advocates faced opposition from some business owners would say the increase means they'll be forced to lay off workers. but "the times" cites a recent study in san francisco that showed companies were able to keep their employees despite higher wages by absorbing the cost through lower turnover and more worker productivity. >> "the new york times."

music legend sting will join the cast of his broadway musical the last ship. sting hopes his presence will help drum up the play which has been losing since its debut. he wrote the music and lyrics for the show. >> that's a hard, hard business. >> it is brutal. >> i can't wait to see if he can turn it around. "los angeles times." the hunger games mocking jay part one topped the box office this weekend. making it the biggest opening of 2014. the film that stars jennifer lawrence pulled in $123 million, a couple million bucks short of the projection. still a good number. rounding out the top five was big hero. my kids saw that this weekend. >> how was it? >> loved it. my wife loved it too. she said this is one of those where the parents and -- >> i have to take my kids. interstellar, dumb and dumber to and gone girl. now "the washington post" is

speaking to several of them. the author of the very comprehensive piece join us next. along with nbc's kate snow who's been following that story as well. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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30 past the hour. more women come forward to accuse bill cosby of sexual assault, a former entertainment employee is also speaking out. let's bring in nbc news national correspondent kate snow with more on this. >> mika, good morning. bill cosby has never been charged with a crime. the number now stand, at 19 women would have publicly made accusations of sexual assault or attempted assault against the comedy legend and more who have done so anonymously. a cosby insider broke ranks, a man who said he now believes he helped bill cosby victimize women. the walls of frank scotty's apartment are a bittersweet shrine to years working with bill cosby. the 90-year-old is a former employee of nbc entertainment who now came forward to say he routinely brought young women to cosby's dressing room and it was his job to guard the door. >> either time he had somebody

that i had to watch, and the girl stay there, i felt dirty. >> scotty doesn't know what happened behind closed doors. he says he was asked to send money to women over the years. sometimes thousands of dollars a month. as more and more women have come forward with stories of alleged sexual assault, scotty says he felt associate fsorry for them to speak out in their defense. >> i just felt, you know, he's not the person i thought he was. >> in response, cosby's attorneys tell nbc news, it appears that his story is pure speculation so that he cab get his 15 minutes of fame. on friday, cosby himself told florida today, i know people are tired of me not saying anything but a guy doesn't have to answer to innuendos. people should fact-check. the facts being claimed in these decades old situations are sometimes conflicting or inconsistent. still, many of the women tell similar stories all these years later. >> he put a pill down, said here, take this, this will make you feel better. >> at least 14 claim cosby

drugged or attempted to drug them. including former playboy playmate victoria valentino. >> he's been lauded over the years, you know, the ph.d. the great family man, you know, his legacy. well, this is his true legacy. >> a spokesperson for cosby says it's completely illogical that so many people would have said nothing, done nothing and made no reports to law enforcement. despite all the controversy, cosby received two standing ovations before and after his performance before a soldout crowd in georgia other the weekend. cosby is scheduled to appear 35 times on stage between now and may of this year. at least seven shows have now been canceled or postponed. we checked with nbc entertainment to try to verify scotty's story of employment. they were unavailable for comment. >> interesting. you just do wonder though why anybody didn't come forward sooner. i understand the constraints to coming forward but i mean we're

at 23 now. >> we're more than that actually. i think we're around 27. some of whom are not verified by nbc news. and some of whom haven't been public yet. they've just been named as jane doughs in a lawsuit. i've asked every woman i've talked to, i've asked that question. they all say times were different. if was the 70s, early 80s, the times were different. one woman i talked to said she told her mother and her mother said, well, you can't say anything. think about the pressure these women felt to not go up against the machine of bill cosby who's a legend. if it's true. >> let's bring in one of the authors in an in depth piece looking at the accusations against bill cosby and five of the alleged victims. so what did you get from some of the women you spoke to? >> good morning. we saw patterns in our interviews with these women of pills being given to them by

bill cosby. and then there are allegations he sexually abused them when they were basically in a semiconscious state. >> okay. i'm curious about the patterns. is there anything about the patterns about the stories that lined up, that they couldn't have copied from the media? does that make sense? >> well, i think what we're talking about is different eras. a time when women did not feel particularly comfortable coming forward to say that they had been section wale abused or to make that allegation. and i think one of the best examples we came across was the case of joy traits, a woman would said he was sexually abused by bill cosby. and at the time, she told her family. and her family's response was, he's very powerful, if you come out, he will crush us. >> manuel, apart from the

obvious cathartic effect of truth, what about the statue of limitations on any of these charged being leveled? hasn't it run and expired on most of them? >> yeah, that is true. it has. i think that these women have in a sense looked at what was happening to other women who came forward, whose credibility has been attacked. and they felt a kind of kinship with those women. and felt that after all these years, many of them suppressing these memories, not tell iing my people they might be able to help the other women who are saying the same thing happened to them. >> you also write about the intense response from cosby's team. what is the intense response? the machine that an accuser

might go up against? >> i think on your show you talk a lot about politics. one of the things in politics you hear about is opposition research, where you look into the background of an opponent in a political campaign. think we've seen something very similar to that in the allegations that have been leveled against mr. cosby. the women who have come out in some cases have had opposition reserve done about them, and that has been used to attack their credibility. >> you certainly saw that during -- talking about politics, where this all comes together. you certainly saw this during impeachment where you had supporters of bill clinton actually going after republicans that were questioning bill clinton. and they go after the women individually. >> i would point out that bill cosby's team, one of his lawyers in plasharticular, has put out number of statements, to your question, mika, insinuating

these women might be gloming on, they might be sort of seeing each other and thinking, i'm going to get involved. that's from the side of cosby's team. and they have really been putting out a number of statements trying to discredit these women. about the nbc employee, they're saying he's trying to get his 15 minutes fame. >> why didn't he come out ten years ago? why didn't he feel as an 80-year-old he would be believed? >> his entire interview he did with us yesterday, he says, i never knew what was happening inside behind closed doors. he called it the casting couch. he thought this was consensual sexual activity that was happening behind that closed door. now he's hearing story after story after story from the women. i think because of what you just talked about, the social media role in all this, the fact it's out there so much now, he felt -- he started putting, he says, two and two together and he now believes there was more than consensual activity. >> kate snow, thank you very much. manuel, thank you as well.

still ahead, dare to think beyond survival. that's the challenge the president of pbs issued. after the major success of "downton abbey," does the channel have another hit in the works? and business before the bell is next. how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

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time now for "business before the bell" with cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera. >> we're really watching the price of oil this week for two key events. first of all, will there or won't there be a deal with iran.

if there's some kind of deal, even an extension, that means the limited amount of oil continues to flow if there were to be no deal, everybody would walk away from the table. that would push prices higher. on thursday, opec, the organization of pat tell yum exporting countries, they're a cartel, they get together and decide how much they're going to produce every couple of months. if they decide they're going to cut production, that could push the price of oil higher. a lot of geopolitics moving oil. we saw it stabilize around 80 bucks. a lot of drivers are enjoying the below $3 a gas we're seeing in some parts of the country. >> thank you very much. >> that's also, you know, that's also great international news. i mean, so many of our rivals across the world, whether it's putin in russia or whether it's in iran, they need oil prices to be over $100 per barrel. if it's not, that's a real

economic crisis for them. they're struggling right now. >> a good change for us. up next, it's not just telephones anymore. how pbs landed "downton abbey" for their lineup. pbs's president joins the table next on "morning joe."

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you sound as if the tide is running against me. >> tony. a year ago, i thought i'd be alone forever. that i would mourn matthew to the end of my days. now i know that isn't true, that there will be a new life for me one day. and even if i can't decide yet what life that should be, isn't it something for us to celebrate? >> exactly. >> downtown abbey is the most watched in the station's history. just one of the ways the nonprofit organization is staying competitive. here with us, president and ceo of pbs paula kyrerger.

that is a great show. >> it is a fantastic show. just one of those gifts that keeps giving. >> how did it come to me? given how what a challenge it is to produce good programming in general, let alone cbs. >> the year that downtown abby came is the same year we were looking to bring back "upstairs downstairs." we had that. we'd heard of this wonderful quirky sherlock with a young and upcoming actor benedict cumber batch. we thought well, upstairs/downstairs. maybe it's a lot. two things, one, julien fellowings. the second was they'd already cast maggie smith. so we thought, well, that gosford park thing with maggie smith is going to be fantastic and it was far beyond what anybody expected. >> mark halperin. >> what is the rationale for pbs at a time when there's 500 channels of entertainment

programming? >> well, actually, when you look at the programming that we're doing and you look at everybody else, you'll see that we actually are in a space all by ourselves. programs and channels that used to focus on history or science have really gone down different paths. there's such an explosion of reality shows. that for us it's been a great opportunity for us to really stay focused on our mission. our audiences have grown. we're now the fifth most watched in prime time. people think sleepy little pbs. really, it's -- >> it is not sleepy. >> well, you know, it's the people that watch your show. there's a great appetite for intelligent conversation and smart programming. >> you say the challenge is beyond survival. that was your challenge. to think beyond survival. talk about that. >> if you're only focused on survival, you're going to make safe decisions. if you really look for the bigger opportunities to really

try to bring important stories forward, not to be tempted to do what everyone else is doing, but really carve out our own path, that i think is the way you move towards success. we thought about that for television. we thought about that in the multiplatform world. so the way that we've been able to move into really thinking about our programming on television as well as on digital devices and so forth has been really i think tremendously important for us. >> let's talk about that. you have been instrumental in future proofing bps because you've been there since 2006. you'll celebrate a decade in april of 2015. talk about cord cutters. how worried are you about that? is it the programming that's going to keep the young millennials and everybody engaged? >> well, content is always the key. and so you know you always have to be really focused on really great important stories. but for us, part of the reason that we'd been interested in being in digital space and not just, by the way, for broadcast platform for our work.

so, for example, when we aired the roosevelts in the fall, you know, we had all 14 hours. the first day that ken's work premiered, we let all of it go in streaming form. a lot of people came in, over 2 million people came in and watched. 33 1/2 watched it in broadcast. so that's one distribution, right. the other one that we've spent a lot of time thinking about is something that we do under an umbrella called digital studios which is really the youtube artists and people who think about work in different way, using different platforms. we have 30 programs. we run a number of emmys. we just run the synopsis youtube channel of the year award for that work. >> pbs has long been a political football. >> i was waiting for you to bring it up. >> she's ready. >> i was actually listening to npr this weekend, as i usually do when i get in my car, and i was thinking about what a great service it is to this country

and pbs what a great service it is. i was just thinking in the pr e privacy of my own car, it's a shame they haven't been as down the middle politically as i think they should have been because it would make it so much easier to justify it for appropriators on both sides of the aisle. do you all -- things are much better than they were in the 70s and 80s and even early 90s. >> or even a few years ago. >> are you all consciousless making an effort to move past the old left leaning stereotype of what pbs and npr were in the past? >> we look at our work, the two anchors of what we do are "the news hour," which i don't think you could accuse of being left leaning. >> no, it's straight forward. >> the news of the day in context. at "front line," the most

important investigative journalism series on television. that's really the focus of our work in news and public affairs. we're looking to tell multiplicity of stories. the political question is always a strange want to me. we get about 15% of our money from the federal governments. that money goes to stations. where it really goes is shore up station, in rule areas that wouldn't have the wherewithall to operate without some support. we raise the rest of the money. i think we're the most effective private shrub public partnership. we continue to make that case. >> i tried to defund pbs when i was in congress and thank god i didn't. >> thank god you didn't. >> because i use the pbs station in pensacola, florida, to do "scarborough country" and criticize pbs -- >> let me ask you -- >> oh, yeah, the news -- >> is there a general feeling out there still that there is a bias outside of republican -- >> -- some conservatives that there isn't, but as up

suggested, they've made a real effort to change the image, not just by trickery but through different kind of journalism. >> what's next? >> we've got a great summer and winter coming up. wolf hall, for those that really love "masterpiece" with damien lewis as henry viii looks fantastic. we have james norton. we have a wonderful series called "earth, a new wild" which features a fan tatastic scienti. it's a natural history project but really puts us into it. if you watch most natural history progaps and you were from space, you would wonder, who are these humans. i think that is a fantastic -- we're actually beginning january with billy joel. he just received the gershwin prize last week. that concert will air on january 2nd. >> fantastic. >> we're excited. >> just a little busy.

paula, thank you so much. it's great to have you on. congratulations. good luck making it to april. where you break the record for the longest serving leader. >> what, if anything, did we learn today. i'm meteorologist bill karins. all eyes continue on the buffalo area after the epic snow, the snow melt today is very i pre impressive. high temperature, 60 degrees. thankfully, they did not get a lot of rain. also watching that rain moving up through new england. watch out for wintry precip around minneapolis and milwaukee. it's our slow simmered vegetables and tender white meat chicken. apology accepted. i'm watching you soup people.

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joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. is mike coming? >> i was getting ready. >> all right, so let's talk about what we learned today. thomas what have you learned? >> paula, she's from baltimore. of course i say, where did you go to high school. >> mike, what did you learn? >> i was over there with the weatherman and i learned we might have to leave like really early. >> you ought to go now. >> we'll see you on friday. what have you learned? >> we're also focused on taylor swift. katy perry had song of the year. this song, song of the year. >> what is it? >> "dark horse." >> what have you learned? >> that might barnacle was literally sleeping in the newsroom. >> thinking. >> if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around, because right now "the rundown" begins. good morning. developing right now on the rundown, the clock is ticking in missouri where the grand jury i