august, reconvened today, today's decision coming after many are question whether the grand jury was the best option in the first place. offed all available evidence but no recommendations on what charges to consider. >> usually the prosecutor has a very specific case against the criminal defendant but in this case he is allowing evidence both for and against an indictme indictment. >> the brown family arguing the process is unfair. >> i think this process is unlike anything i've ever seen in my 20 years of practice. why you come in with charges, it's probable cause, seven people said his hands was up. >> despite the low standard of

probable cause, most experts expect the grand jury to not deliver an in2k50i7dictmenindic reason, grand juries rarely indict police officers, period. >> that's because by in large most grand jurors identify with peace officers and not with suspects. >> is word of the decision feltering out to the decision and what is the reaction? >> so far not much has filtered out. this moment has been a long time coming, protesters and law enforcement has been waiting for this movement so they can move on one way or another. folks definitely wonder how they came to the conclusion. the prosecutor taking the

extraordinary step of presenting all the evidence. protesters are tense and anxious for preparation of days or weeks of demonstrations. >> do you get the sense the holiday weekend will deter people from coming out to protest for lack of indictment. >> for the organizers who were in the thick of organizing and rallying around michael brown say they plan on using the holiday weekend to their advantage calling a black friday boycott beginning thanksgiving morning through sunday. so as this announcement butts up the holiday weekend it is opportune sometime for demonstrators to make their needs known. >> thanks. >> thank you. >> it joining me now former federal prosecutor paul butler.

professor first explain to us if you could, why a grand jury having all the evidence is not necessarily a good thing. >> well the prosecutor has the option of marching down to the courthouse and filing charging in missouri. he doesn't have to use the grand jury. where he uses the grand jury in cases like this, an unarmed person shot by a police officer. guess what his indictment record is 0 for 4. a grand jury has never returned a indictment for an officer shooting an unarmed person, black or white. so there's questions why he chose this route. in theory the grand jury is conscious of the community a group of people who come to together, a very low standard, probable cause, they don't have to think about the defense, just

whether it is reasonable for this case to go to trial. >> in feterms of the jury selection, one would imagine it is extraordinarily difficult to find men and women who are not familiar and have developed p opinions in this case. can you tell us about the selection of this grand jury. >> first you don't want people who haven't heard of ferguson that would mean they weren't living in the real zblorworld. >> should i say have an opinion. >> sure. you want people who heard a little bit about the case but can only render a decision based on that jury room evidence. so you don't have the hassles of grand jury because their standard is low and they don't have to have a unanimous decision. if nine people decide to bring

ab indictment than officer wilson will be indicted. >> in terms of the brown's attorney, seven witnesses are saying michael brown had his hands up, why is that probable cause or why is it. >> good question. what a lot of observers say, is if the case, the evidence goes both ways, that means there's probable cause. that means a jury, a regular jury should decide this case in a trial. but what this prosecutor believes, apparently is that when it is a closed case he sends it to the grand jury. he is a politician. he's an elected official. we know there's a wide gulf in the way people feel about this case, some feeling he is trying to provide political cover in the event there's no indictment he could blame it on the grand jury.

>> the release of the transcripts you would think would be critical, carol's office saying, she entered no order to release the transcripts and made no agreement. do you think it is likely the public will gain access? >> i will believe it when i see. the prosecutor has claimed that will happen. but grand jury proceedings are secret. the witnesses aren't supposed to be revealed. in high profile cases we often see regular jurors coming out afterward and talking about what happens, if grand jurors do that they will go to jail. they can't say a word about what happened in the process. so the judge has discretion to release some of the records, i just don't think it will happen. >> let me ask one more big question. in terms of the possible charges, first degree murder, second degree murder, voluntary

or involuntary manslaughter. criminal negligence. do you think it is irresponsible to think proclaim what the grand jury could hand down. what is the realm of feasible. >> i think a hard core prosecutor will be looking at voluntary manslaughter. that would mean there's some kind of heat of passion event. maybe the evidence would suggest officer wilson got carried away. that he got enraged. that's voluntary manslaughter. if he was wreckless that's involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide. murder one, murder two, those are the off the table. there's lots of charges some prosecutors would seriously

consider. >> more as a said on that grand jury decision in ferguson regarding the fate on officer darren wilson. plus secretary of defense chuck hagel has designresigned. next on "now." all clear! lookin' good! close it up! got it. ... and then, santa's helpers boarded the train, and off they went. and that's how we got it. wowww ... you guys must've been really good this year. the magic of the season is here, at the lexus december to remember sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection. americans drink 48 billion that's enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those.

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he waengt sn't up to the jo. the words on senior defense official or departing secretary of defense chuck hagel who announced his resignation just a while ago. what happened behind the scenes between hagel and the administration appeared less

harmonio harmonious, saying he was forced out because the white house lost confidence in him. president obama made the decision to remove hagel because the threat from isis required different skills. and he offeredl struggled to articulate and was passive. chuck hagel will remain defense secretary until new secretary of defense is confirmed. the u.s. is attempting to wienld down the war in winding down the war. >> during his tenure afghan

for forces took the lead in security in afghanistan. our forces drawn down. our combat mission ends there next month and will partner with afghan to preserve the gains we have made. >> jaoining me now, mark, let m start with you, given the fact you were one of the reporters that broke the story in the times that the president had secretly expanded the mission in afghanistan to include a combat role, the president seemed to rebut that today. where is the truth. >> well what the president said was that the combat mission would be over but didn't see the united states wouldn't be involve in combat operations next year. he said it would be very narrow, hunting down al qaeda and training afghan forces. what we reported over the weekend was that the new authorities are broader than originally planned for next year

and will include potential air strikes against al qaeda and taliban and erm expanse on force. if american troops see threats they could go after any number of other groups in afghanistan. it is a broader mission than was laid out originally several months ago. >> white house press secretary today said there was no secret order and that the mission in after fan stan is what the president outlined previously. they seemed very concerned about the scope of the mission changing, you want to be trans parent with the american public whether or not we were engaging in a deeper combat role. >> they may have been planning to discuss this publicly about the new authorities. clearly the political message has been the war in afghanistan is ending.

as we know the u.s. force in afghanistan is shrinking. the bigger fight was not about numbers, but about the authorities. that's why this was so intense of a discussion that pitted two sides against each other. one side the american military who clearly is worried about force protection. they have people in afghanistan they want to protect them seventies, versus the political narrative that the war is ending and there won't be american troops in afghanistan next year. >> the conversation we're having with mark is exemplary about how fraut issues over defense are. was there any thought in your mind that, regarding hagel's riz ig nation that it was mutual, in so far as chuck hagel did he want to leave, is there any creedence to that?

>> i think, alex, the issue wasn't personailit personalitie strategy. and clearly they have had trouble articulating strategy both in afghanistan and syria. chuck hagel with his back ground as a grunt in vietnam had very, very keen insights into the lives of ordinary what i call working class military and was able to push policies that were favorable to them. but he was not a strategist and the lack of a strategist in the top level of the pentagon has been just glaring and the obama administration realized they needed someone at penatagon who could articulate a strategy for

afghanistan and syria and sell it to the joint chiefs and the public. none of that has been done and trouble has brewing in both places. >> secretary of defense chuck hagel -- how much do you think his relationship in syria may have factored into tensions with the white house. mark why don't you take that. >> i think it was huge. i think it was the latest issue with hagel in this dispute over syria policy. as we know over the last year we have seen a mission change from this question of whether assad needed to go against the battle against isis to those opposed to assa assad that is just one issue. hagel was chosen two years ago at a time obama administration

thought he would be doing different things at the pepenta. so he hasn't fit in with what they have been doing and there's a feeling of the on-going war against isis. afghanistan is still going to be in the news and they needed to find someone else. >> speak fg that someone else, there's a strategist is that the theater of war has changes, it's more of a theeter, if you will. michelle flournoy from 2009-20011 and of course -- jack read three term senator, former officer, are any of those folks in your, i guess bracket for potential next secretary of defense? >> well michelle flournoy is the obvious choice to me. she's a strategist. the problem is the u.s. has

chosen two different strategies in both iraq and afghanistan in the last 13 years, the counter insurgence puand then the equip strategy. both of those strategies have failed. so there's a crying need for someone like michelle flournoy to articulate and sell a coherent strategy. >> in terms of general dempsey he has a big voice in advising the white house. how much of a role has he played in the latest chain of events. and will have going forward. >> i think he's pushing for someone to strategize.

he works for civilian head of the pentagon, the secretary of defense, so he has limited maneuver room in announcing a administration strategy. he has to follow the line set by president and secretary of defense. and they haven't had that person in place in chuck hagel. as good as he was as other things, particularly personnel matters, there hasn't been anyone at the pentagon to do that strategic work. general dempsey has done what he can to articulate but he's kind of cam hamstrung in pushing that strategy out. >> mark, in materials of foreign policy, national security, isis, afghanistan, syria, et cetera, dave outlines correctly, both of our previously announced

strategy hasn't been efficacious do you think there will be a shift 1234. >> i think the strategy has to come from the white house, from the president. and so, you know, president obama got beat up over the summer when he said we don't have a syria or isis strategy, which i think unfairly in that case he was beat up. but there is this broader question of what is their vision for the next couple years. i mean, it's not -- it was not chuck hagel's job to come up with that. he could have probably articulated it better but clearly there are issues with the white house, with the team at the white house and just getting rid of chuck hagel will. >> i felt bad for the guy standing up there this morning. thafrpgs for your thoughts.

coming up we give you the announcement about the impending grand jury announcement in ferguson. earning your diploma. providing for your family. real associates, using walmart's benefits to build better lives for their families. opportunity. that's the real walmart.

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anytime. wilson, this coming three months after a unarmed black teen was fatally shot by officer wilson. we will bring you the remarks as we get them. joining me on the phone from missouri, craig, thanks for joining me. in terms of timing on all this. can you report when we should expect the announcement from the prosecutor's office. >> we've been told a few hours. so, you know. i would -- if -- if you hear 3:25 in st. louis, i would say,

sometime between 6:00 and 7:00 local time is what we're told. preparations are under way. the unified command post, unified command, of course the group that law enforcement umbrella that over saw the law enfor enforcement protest. that was set up in the same location as it was last time at the end of west florence avenue. governor is meeting with clergy at 4:00. the justice center where the grand jury wrapped up its deliberations, barricades have gone up there, and we've also seen court workers covering up various monuments on the ground of the justice center. covered the world war i memorial. they've been doing things like that preparing for, you know, preparing for protesters.

but as we have been reporting, you talk to folks on the ground they will tell you they don't anticipate anything like what we saw last time. so i guess we'll know for sure? five or six hours once this decision comes down and folks do protest, hopefully, peacefully. >> you are seeing an increase in police presence and folks not from ferguson coming to the area. >> yes to both. we have seen additional officers just outside the justice center today throughout the course of the day. last time in the wake of the shooting, there were a lot more folks from out of town. now that could just be, you know, i haven't seen them, but we've been here for more than a week if how. we've been talking to some of the larger organized protest

groups. but again, i mean, it's, they say they are here. we just haven't seen them yet. maybe we see them tonight. that remains to be seen. that was one of the chief complaints from a lot of folks who live in ferguson and in the area, one of the chief complaints was basically these folks from out of town have come in and, and have come mand eared the movement, so to speak. it will be interesting to see the types of group that's come out tonight, the tomorrow, over the next few days as well. we've already got press releases from organizations that are planning protests over the next couple days. >> yeah that is a tension in this story. the gulf between expectation and reality. thanks as always craig. just ahead we're awaiting an

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see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. how about 70% of the crime in my city -- >> how about your attitude -- >> all right, this say debate. >> how about you reduce crime. >> when i become mayor i'll do that. >> white house police officers wouldn't pe there if you were t weren't -- >> that was an example of some of the issues on display in ferguson. in the 108 days since michael brown was shot, missouri

governor is in nixon meeting with clergy members. they will hold a press conference at 6:30 to discuss preparations for the anticipated announcement of officer wilson's indictment. >> heather, first to the exchange between former mayor, almost said governor, rudy gouli gouliani, him saying the white police officers wouldn't be is there if you weren't killing each other 70 to 75% of the time, your thoughts. >> this is a frequent response to the protest. the real issue is black on black crime and why aren't african-americans as upset when a black person dies at the hands of another black person. first of all, black on black homicide has increased by 67% in

past 20 years. black use, serious robbery, violent crime is at its lowest point in the past 20 years but what is on the increase and is on a daily part of many segregated community lives is the police state. you know, a white cop was there because a man was jay walking in the street. >> right not because he was killing someone. >> so if you really warrant to e empathy in this moment of national unrest, let's think of a profile of a woman done in the washington post on november 3rd, a young mother of two young women goes to jail for unpaid speeding ticket and a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.

this idea that the police presence is so constant that things we often think of as normal if part of life, end of sending black people to jail. >> and forever changing their lives. >> and forever changing their lives. >> in a story unrelated to this exchange, another writes t is not about black on black crime, but the pleas of black people that are the back ground noise in america there are plenty of black and minority communities interested in more coverage in terms of the violence that is ruining lives in one corner of america. we don't pay enough attention to that and a lot of folks in those communities would respect us more if we were paying attention

to it. >> yeah i think that's right. two quick things. the first is i personally get really annoyed that the implication of black-white crime as if is it is a separate thing as crime in general. >> right. >> people don't go cross town to commit crimes, they commit crimes against their neighbors. 84% of crimes against whites against other whites so on so forth. to treat the interracial nature of crime as specific to black people is to buy into racist ideas about blacks and black criminal ality. the other thing, you know, black communities are frankly probably the only people actually protesting about crime in their communities. right. >> right. >> you cannot go to any place where black people live in

significant numbers, regardless of whether or not they have a crime problem, and not hear someone talked about, whether at the barber shop, church, anywhere, about crime among black people. it's just a fact of life. it's not an accident that when president obama goes to majority of black audiences and talks about problems in the black community he gets huge ovations, it is because a lot of the people in communities are talking about these issues on a regular bases, so when someone pops up to say if you cared more about crime, that to me, is a play give away that he doesn't have any real concern. >> right. >> for problems of crime in these communities. he's merely trying to score some debate points. >> when you say the white officers wouldn't be there if you weren't killing each other 70% to 75% of the time.

this is us killing each other. this is an american problem. not a "you" problem, this is our community. everyone belongs to it. >> that's very, very true to notice is that. absolutely. and there are so many ways to peel back this onion. it does not feel like rudy's community, even though he was the mayor of new york city one of the most diverse places on the planet, because of segregation and this is a real skorge of the ferguson community. our friends did long research on how ferguson became ferguson, policy decisions, not just living among people you like living with, it's about policies that go back to 1960s, and 80s and even the 90s that make it so

we are simply not living in proximity with the rest of the american people. so you can get that social distance, alienation, that kind of inimplicit and explicit bias is that really this moment in ferguson needs to call our minds to. what's it look like to have a national program to train all police officers in imimplicit bias. we just can't see young african-americans as innocent and children. >> professor butler in terms of the blinders, it seems some are keen to not see the bias in the justice system but happy to see it when it comes to crime. >> exactly right. one difference is when there's an accused african-american man

or woman they doesn't get this grand jury process where all the evidence is introduced. for young black men and women it is almost like arrest, prosecute, and then ask questions. the other thing crazy about what rudy said, is we don't know how many police officers kill unarmed people because those statistics are not kept by any federal database. sfrz one of the things we hope comes out of ferguson whether or not there's an indictment of officer wilson is jugs data collection. give us information about how many unarmed innocent people get shot by the cops. >> the other piece of this, in terms of the othering and clear racial lens through which people, even the dog whistles, the foam meanting of fear and anxiety of a predicted reaction

that has yet to happen. in ferguson there is not a lot of crowds waving pitch forks in front of the courthouse. mike huck bee said some are threatening violence if they don't get an indictment. >> i mean, i just wonder what you think of what has been said in advance of the verdict, in advance of the expected reaction of violence mobs having their own way. >> with regards to huckabee, you know, it's kind of ridiculous. it's kind of ridiculous to compare potential anger over the lack of an indictment for someone who killed someone to lynch mobs. it's insulting to the memory of people killed by lynching and really bad history to begin with. i would hope huckabee would pick up a history book.

>> especially being a southern political leader. >> exactly. but one of the things that has really bother med about the past two weeks is the language around ferguson that we will see violence, it all seems to stem, there's this state of emergency, a perfect instance, this all stems from a mis-remembrance of what happened in august on the first day the protests were driven by brown's body and they weren't violent. there was one night of violence and then they were not violence any more. >> that is such an important thing to remember on the eve of a decision coming down. always good to see you my friend, thanks for your time. >> thank you. >> stay with me guys. we following the developments out of ferguson. we'll bring more on that grand jury decision and the reaction on the ground coming up just ahead. of heroes and titans.

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>> missouri governor nixon in ferguson will be meeting with local clergy at the top of the hour, after news the grand jury investigating officer wilson has reached a decision. we will have more on that. first let's look at stocks. (vo) nourished. rescued. protected. given new hope. during the subaru "share the love" event, subaru owners feel it, too. because when you take home a new subaru, we donate 250 dollars to helping those in need. we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years.

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>> we continue to monitor breaking news out of missouri where a local prosecutor is expected to make an announcement today regarding the indictment of officer wilson, who shot teenager michael brown in august.

the charges range from first degree murder to involuntary manslaughter. all after school

. . . on august 9th, tyler was grocery shopping when she got a call that michael brown's body was lying in the street for hours. she left her groceries and ran out to see what happened and ended up seeing his body there on the pavement. and not leaving. when you see a citizen go from an every day college student into one of the leaders of the civil rights movement in this country it was incredibly touches to hear her story. i think we should think about the leadership, the trauma, this young woman was tear gassed,

right, just for standing up for justice in her community. >> yeah. >> we should be lionizing and supporting these young people who are not activists professionally. >> nor are they violent pitch-fork yielding. >> exactly. but they are victimized just like michael brown. >> the idea michael brown's body was laying in the street for hours, that is unprecedented. i wonder what the family could do. assume tlg are no charges made against officer wilson, is there anything they can do civilly the facts their son's body was left in the street for all to see, not afforded the dignity of most homicide victims. >> absolutely. they could sue him in court, go after officer wilson

individually and they could go after the ferguson police department. will it be easy, no. will it be easier if there's an indictment? absolutely. even in the event there were no charges filed against officer wilson, the justice department could bring charges him or the whole ferguson police department for racial profiling. >> thank you both for your times. coming up the grand jury regarding officer wilson has reached a decision and we'll get a live report from the courthouse coming up next. ♪ ♪

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planning a news conference in harlem at 9:15 eastern tonight, shortly after the grand jury will announce their decision. the timing of the anoupsment of that grand jury decision remains unclear. both 7:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. central has been mentioned. back with me now tremendolee, w the latest from where you are at? >> moments ago i spoke with member of the group millennial activists united. they are tense and geared up for whatever this announcement will be. and plan on taking to the streets tonight. school district has cancelled after school taactivities today and tomorrow. as well as clayton school district. if you recall on florence avenue

the quick trip burned down in the wake of the initial killing. so folks are hunkering down and getting ready. >> when you walk around ferguson or clayton do you see a lot of shops boarded up, are they getting out the construction materials, can you see that, is that evident? >> the scene is a little bit different. in ferguson which is a 15-minute drive away, all along that main strip, which had been ground ze zero, the majority of the shops have that board in the windows. in clayton i have seen one shop owner preparing. but not the same as on ground zero. again we're expecting protests here as well as shaw neighborhood in st. louis where another young man was killed right after michael brown was killed. and certainly ferguson in and

across from the police station. right now more media than protesters are here ready for the announcement coming in the next few hours. again, folks here, in lieu of this decision are just waiting. >> can you share anything about the governor's meeting about local clergy. do you know who was involved in that meeting or any sense of what was discussed? >> a number of sources say they will actually be meeting with governor nixon. there's also a conference call which should be happening about now. as far as i know, one thing the governor will be asking for is prayer from the clergy. in this time of great tumult in the community, they ask that the clergy rally around the commu community for their prayers. >> thanks for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> that's all for now. see you tomorrow at 4:00

eastern. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening americans, and welcome to "the ed show." live from detroit lakes, minnesota, let's get to work. >> announcement by the st. louis county prosecutor is expected later today. >> they have reached a decision. >> very tense situation in ferguson. >> engage nationally in a conversation between law enforcement and communities of color. >> tensions continue to mount zwl this time it is like waiting for a hurricane. >> need to protest peacefully. >> i'm sympathetic. i have sons who look like michael brown. >> there's more positive things happening in our community versus violence and rioting. >> using any of that for violence is contrary to rule of