[ snow intensifies ] [ sleighbells ring in the distance ] aleve. all day pain relief with just 2 pills. get back to being you. here at midnight on the east coast, 11:00 p.m. local time ferguson. we are looking at images as you can see there. protesters have set some local byes on fire. we have reports of a police car in flames in ferguson. reports of some looting and as we've been saying some gunfire. we have also seen peaceful protests throughout the night with many peaceful protesters than people bent on burning things down. it's just over two hours ago now in st. louis county where the

local prosecuting attorney robert mcculloch announced the grand jury decided not to indict police officer darren wilson in the august shooting of michael brown. that 1-year-old unarmed individual. mr. mcculloch said the grand jury decided not to indict officer wilson and five possible charges that ranged from involuntary manslaughter to first degree murder. >> they determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against officer wilson and returned a no true bill on each of the five indictments. the physical and scientific evidence examined by the grand jury combined with the witness statements supported and substantiated by that physical evidence tells the accurate and tragic story of what happened. >> the prosecutor said that the death of michael brown was a tragedy but he also said tonight the grand jury determined at this point there was no probable cause to say it was a crime.

shortly after the prosecutor finished speaking we also heard from president obama tonight. even as you called for peaceful protests he tried to put this violence in context. >> first and foremost, we are a nation built on the rule of law. and so we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. there are measure who's agree with it, and there are american who are deeply disappointed even angry. >> it's an understandable reaction. but i join michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. those of you who are watching tonight understand that there's never an excuse for violence particularly when there are a lot of people and good will out there who are willing to work on these issues. on the other hand, those hose are only interested in focusing on the violence and just want

the problem to go away need to recognize that we do have work to do here. and we shouldn't try to paper it over. >> as we've been reporting tonight and as i was discussing just minutes ago with my colleague chris hayes, the images you see here don't begin to be convey an entire picture in st. louis or around the country where we've seen seen protests including new york city. hundreds of thousands of people, even millions of people looking at these events it, talking with families, watching times was sadness or even disbelief at what is happening tonight. joining me now is a breaking news reporter with "usa today" who has been on the story. thanks for joining me tonight. >> when you look at the protests compared to some of the protests we saw in august, how does this compare? >> i think there are less people

but i think the destruction of property is getting worst. i'm looking at the third building that i've seen burn down tonight. i saw one building burned down the last time. i think just the property destruction tonight is on a different level. i don't see as many people and don't hear the chanting and anger. i hear a lot of people solemnly talking about this more in a depressed state than before. >> we've spoken to several activists, several academics and teaches and reporters, as well. all of them have said what we're witnessing however concerning in the streets and however questionable in the grand jury announcement, that this is result is not a surprise to the vast majority of people there on the ground. is that your sense from your reporting? >> that is my sense from my

reporting. i just spoke to a man who said you know, it's so rare. he says, to see an officer indicted. frankly he said to see an officer indicted for a killing a black young man, he didn't believe it was going to happen. what's what protest ares are saying, not only do they think officers don't get indicted in general, youth of color are being killed, officers are not being held accountable. that's their perspective. >> that is at odds with what bob mcculloch said today. i'm reading from his press conference where he said no one is being killed with impunity. he said we've had young white man killed in tragic situations, as well. it was an interesting comment there because it's not the kind of defense you would ideally want to offer. yet, it was had his way of saying to the extent it's a problem, it's a problem of occasional officer killings, not

killings based on your race. your thoughts on that from the prosecutor tonight. >> "usa today" has had an article up that says in the majority of times or in a lot of cities, blacksing are overwhelmingly arrested more by police and are shot more than police by police than other races. that doesn't mean there's a bias there. there could be a lot of different farcs. result of those statistics are that people really blue believe that black youth are racially profiled and murdered. they think that black men, especially are targeted. so i understand that robert mcculloch is making that argument. on the ground here, i've talked to dozens of people who believe that he black youth lives do not matter and this was just a confirmation of that. >> yamiche, so many of us have been following this story around the nation. that's obviously why the president spoke out so swiftly.

how did people on the ground there who were outside, how did they follow bob mccullough's actual address? was your sense they were watching it or hearing it on radios and hearing it from friends or were they hearing it word of mouth because ultimately, what we're looking at is a response to this lack of indictment on these five charges. >> good evening. it is 2:07 a.m. and the east coast, 1:07 a.m. in ferguson, missouri where msnbc is continuing our live coverage of the events there. you are looking at live shots of some of the ongoing fires burning there that have been burning for hours in some cases, cars on fire. we've also shown stores and buildings on fire. the crowds have thinned. you can see in this shot live right now, some people continuing to move about. as we've reported tonight and with chris hayes and tremaine

lee on the ground, we've had live shots and audio of police asking people to disperse and saying those who do not at this point would be arrested. you can see there the cars burning in ferguson, missouri. several fires. this is all, of course, in reaction to what we've been covering all this evening announcement by prosecutor bob mcculloch in this case the shooting death of michael brown by officer darren wilson announcement tonight just after 8:00 p.m. local time in ferguson that there would be no charges, no true bill, no indictment on any of the five charges related to that shooting death. this is both local and national news. an unusual address tonight if you are just joining us or catching up, the president of the united states, barack obama came out and spoke about this decision saying that it should be respected, that we are a nation of laws and at the same time, reiterating his condolences to the family of michael brown who was shot and saying that some anger here is

understandable. we are looking here at some of the results of that anger in these fires that keep burning. as we've reported, as well tonight, this is in about a four-block radius of ferguson, missouri. this is part of a commercial area. this is an area that obviously has been beset by troubles. we in fact can report there will be a new conference in about 20 minutes with an update on all of this. we continue at msnbc with our live special coverage. we'll keep you posted on all of it. yet, at the same time, many people have continued to dissipate and disperse. what we saw earlier in the evening to catch you up at about 8:00 p.m. local time was a lot of people in the streets and a lot of anger. that has moved on into that thinning scene and yet so much more expected in the morning here in ferguson. our special coverage continues. i want to bring back in dr. james peterson and criminal

law professor echo yank ca. we've been discussing what was significant about tonight is that this is essentially the end of the local case against police officer darren wilson. it is a decision by authorities based on a grand jury's failure to indict that there is no probable cause for any of the crimes offered from murder down to involuntary manslaughter. that means this case doesn't continue absent extraordinary other circumstances. yet, there are other ways that the justice system can grind on here both federally and civil. and tomorrow morning here, what will be for many of our viewers be this morning, we're going to hear about this and other calls for justice. >> it's going to be difficult going forward. the federal -- everybody knew that the federal case was the most difficult case to prove, that it was unlikely even if there had been a state indictment.

and certainly now that the statement is legally or logically connected. look, in order to prove the federal case, you have to prove that officer wilson intended to violate michael brown's civil rights for certain reasons in this case relevantly because of his race and given the facts, that's going to awfully hard 0 prove especially in light of the supreme court's jurupa on this. >> we're going to stay on that. i have more breaking news here. that is why we are on live. special coverage because there's so much happening even though we're late into the night. 1:11 in ferguson, missouri. a release from the governor's office, governor nixon is ordering additional national guardmenton ferguson. ordering additional national guardsmen to ferguson and reading from the state the guard is providing security at the ferguson police department which will allow additional law enforcement officers to protect the public and "dr. peterson as

i get your thoughts on this i want to set up some of that context. we had craig melvin and other rotters out there all this evening. many of the protests focused right there outside the police department. >> that's right. the sit-in. >> right there. that is, of course, the crucible. that is a real inflection point for thetings in the city. we don't know what the plans are tomorrow morning. we have been reporting on the fact that the brown family and other formal organizers have continued to call for peaceful protests. but reading what i just read here, governor nixon saying this will allow additional law enforcement officers to protect the public end quote would suggest they at least want to be very ready to deal with whatever gatherings, crowds, protests, or other types of assembly surface at whatever point early this morning. >> yeah, governor nixon is sort off, he's seeing what we're seeing. obviously he thinks preemptively with respect to some of these

issues which is within his purview as governor. i would hope he would conduct himself and release information around how they're going to try to police the situation in a way that's delicate, that's sensible and sensitized to what these issues are. again, when you look at this community, understand it's not because of the protests but because it's been under siege because of its relationship with the criminal justice system for a long time. i'm always skeptical when governor nixon says we need more troops because sometimes that antagonizes folks. in the morning you are going to get this more organized push. it was always supposed to be the day after anyway. so i think you'll see more of those organized civic unrest movements and strategies all throughout the day tomorrow and probably you'll see it around the country, as well. governor nixon is probably getting wind of that. >> we're looking at live images. we're seeing continued movements on the streets of ferguson. a lot more police in the aerial shots we're seeing than

individuals. and yet, to be fair and clear to the law enforcement goals here, they are patrolling at night and expecting or preparing for any wide range of response first thing in the morning or before even sunrise. we don't know. i want to mention that rudolph giuliani, who is a prosecutor and former executive, was considered a conservative law and order guy was critical weekend here on "meet the press" of governor nixon saying sure. >> he would have done it but wouldn't have announced. >> i'm reading from what is our account of the second press release regarding the national guard. from a criminal law perspective, no the a political obviously or ideological perspective, what is your view of the policing report that governor nixon is taking. >> as dr. peterson said, one of the problems in especially minority communities and poor communities is the ways in which they're overpoliced abunderpoliced at the same time. tonight has been a sad example

of that. i watched on your air how while people were right flit protesting and angry, even bracketing some understandable and unfortunate and sometimes sad and unlawful moments, how the police were firing tear gas into crowds that seemed to me vastly unnecessary. >> i want to mention, we had reports of tear gas and also had reports of known gastious smoke being fired in. >> that's right. at the same time, when we see what i hope ising and we should be careful about this, what i hope is are isolated moments of anger and fire and burning -- >> we're looking at these ins of cars burning >> these are very serious. but as you i think were thoughtful to mention in a small four-block radius, if we zoomed out, perhaps we would notice these are moments of anger. these are patches of anger, not mass. >> then you think, where are the

police when that's happening. i i understand the police have a difficult job. this is one of those moments that can show you both overand underpolicing. >> we are looking at images of police riding through town, sometimes slowly on these patrols. you can see that on the right side of your screen. at 1:16, these on going fires after the announcement of no indictment in the case against police officer darren wilson. kendall coffey has been following the story for us and rejoins us now. focus on the policing aspect of this in the current moment. we'll get more of your expertise on the case. in this current moment live right now, what you're seeing here, this kind of policing through town, these kind of fires, a sense of unrest limited to only a few blocks right now and the fires and yet, as we mentioned, governor nixon making

another announcement calling up national guard. what is your view, kendall, of this approach to what they're bracing for tomorrow and trying to keep the peace? >> well, first of all, i've got to join the view of other who have commented about it as why was this announced well into the night? there are alternatives including for example, sunday morning. where there could have been rather that a maximum presence of police force is the solution, an opportunity to mobilize community leadership and deal with it much more meaningfully that way. that for starters has me somewhat concerned and frankly very curious. in terms of the approach they're taking which is maximum police presence, we've all seen it before. maybe it does push back some of the risks to the community. here's the problem. we have a decision and a process that many, many view as

fundamentally unfair. what will be the enduring images of this entire tragedy? it's going to a grand jury process that apparently was custom made to secure a no decision or at least custom made to operate in a way very differently from the way it operates for everybody else, a decision that was extremely unsatisfactory to a lot of people. >> because you mentioned that and we're continuing here with our live overnight coverage for those who have just joined and want your legal view there as a former prosecutor yourself, what in your view are the examples or evidence to support that criticism you just offered? >> well i, i mean grabbed jury processes are investigative fools where the prosecution first investigates, develops a narrative, a theory of what was the criminal conduct, how to prove it and essentially presents evidence supporting that narrative. it is not some kind of a wide

open let's hear everything, let's look at everything. believe me, there are several hundred thousand people that will be indicted in the next year, maybe more on that and they would all love to have a grand jury operating like this rather than a grand jury that is essentially operating as an investigative tool for prosecutors. this is a very very rare approach to a case where p wip i think would have been better served by going by the book, treating this case like other cases rather than saying there's going to be a special approach to this particular target or a special approach when police officers are the targets. and beyond that, in addition to what i think are legitimate concerns about the way this process has gone gun forward. now the other part of the enduring image is going to be an increasingly massive police presence. is that going to be in the short term and the long-term something that is more divisive in a case

that is already very divisive there and around the country or is that going to be something that i think begins a reconciliation process. my view, more decisive and unnecessarily so. >> it's more devicive. kendall is right. those images are indelible. he's also right in his breakdown how this process was different. look what that signals. instead of the prosecutor creating the narrative about the particular indictment and the crime, he instead sets up the situation where it's sort of an open sore. people can look at all the evidence. if prosecutors are presenting a narrative about the imkroo, the fact that mr. mcculloch did not do that at the outset signals that he doesn't believe there's a crime. the structural change i think signals something to people p paying attention to thissing >> a prosecutor has every right, indeed it is his duty not -- it's well remembered a prosecutor's duty is to do

justice. that's one of the noblest at least in tone jobs we have. the problem as we discussed over and over is that we see that a prosecutor seems to take that seriously when a police officer arguably has their life threatened but not when some young man is arrested for a serious crime or a young hispanic man is pulled over by another police officer. chris hayes put it very well. lots of people would ask for the darren wilson treatment. problem is to see the fracturing. >> you have to understand this in the context of all these other things going on. you had garner, john crawford. there's a slew of cases that i think people around the nation are seeing like, what is going on with our criminal justice system. >> let me put a little context on there and get all of your responses, the department of justice has put together data on what they call arrest related deaths. if we want to broaden from this individual case.

what they find is whites account for actually 42% reported arrest related deaths, hispanics account for 20%. folks who are critical of that say what you have there is a disproportionate level of african-american arrest related killings or deaths because it includes both this doj data, disproportionate to their population. >> that's right. >> one thing that's different about that that i want to get your responses some folks would say hey, wait a minute. aren't african-americans according to some data in certain kinds of crime committing more crimes. that might work for certain criticism around jails but arrest related deaths are before you've had your day in court before you've been convicted of anything. so this goes to the larger criticism which i think cuts both ways because as the president said tonight, police are people who will p go out and

don't fellow whether they're coming home that an night. people respect that bravery and at the same time, part of the problem that's bigger than any single case is the notion that black men in many communities would say they feel the same way. >> but one piece to add to that data. fishing in black ponds is only going to yield you blackfish. all right? so we have to understand there's another layer of implicit bias on all of that data even though 32% is almost twice as much as the african-american population. it's obviously overrepresented. another thing that newspapers that data correctly is the fact that police communities are in certain communities more. police forces are in certain communities more and more aggressively arrest more folk for certain kinds of crime. >> there's no question about that. i just wanted to add to that. a lot is going to matter where the police are. crime rates will partly reflect where the police are. it's a tricky psych .police are where crimes are,

but crimes are also where police are. that being said, some people might say yes but one common refrain and frankly some people seek too much comfort in, black people must be committing disproportionate amounts of crime. inern places where we've had to struggle with this, if you go back to the '80s whether he the supreme court rule this had unconstitutional force, people have found that black people committing the same crimes are sometimes twice as likely in tennessee for example, twice as likely to be shot. >> that's the point. we're talking about it as a suspect level. kend counsel, i want to play sound from the prosecutor here. all night we've been endeavoring to put context on our screens. you're looking at live images from ferguson, missouri. cars continuing to burn. this is in about a four-block radius. these are disturbing images. many of these fires have continued unabated.

some of them have burned out. the car fires continue. there are police, there are pd and now governor nixon just this hour releasing a statement saying they're calling in more national guard to be prepared and ready. you know, what you see on your screen is part of the story and part of the response to this nonindictment this announcement about a grand jury not indicting officer darren wilson in the shooting death of michael boun. we're endeavoring to show you what's happening there but also give you and text as ferguson will wake up tomorrow and america is going to wake up tomorrow processing this especially as we've reported with that unusual response by the president sims. but to go back to bob mcculloch, i want to play some more of what there prosecutor said with regard to witnesses and if you think if you're watching at home and think you know the whole sorry, what this prosecutor said tonight is you don't know the whole story. and even though witnesses had been quoted as saying they saw

michael brown surrendering and still being shot, the prosecutor said tonight some of those witnesses recanted. some of them changed their story. let's listen to that right now. >> subsequent interviews with law enforcement or their testimony before the grand jury, many of the same witnesses acknowledged that they didn't actually see the shooting. some were running for cover. some are relating what they heard from others. the description of how mr. brown's hands -- the position of his hands is not consistent among the witnesses. some described his hands as being out to his side. some said in front of him with palms up. others said his palms were raised by his head or by his shoulders. still others said they were in front of his chest or down by his stomach. others described his hands as being in a running position or in fists. >> kend counsel, that would sound like a mixed record there.

what was your take of what that will conflicting testimony according to the prosecutor, what that meant. >> well, my immediate reaction is it sounded like the defense closing argument. >> come on. >> i guess to look a little more broadly, there's no doubt that there is a lot we do not know. and no one on that is trying to criticize those members of the grand jury who no doubt served very conscienceously went through a lot of trouble and soul searching on this, but nothing that the prosecutor referred to really changes the basic element that he chose a process that was fundamentally different from what any other perspective defendant would get. in a situation where fairness and consistency seem to be some of the most important things that a prosecutor could do amid this obviously heart breaking controversy to in effect rearrange the process for a

particular purpose is something i think was fundamentally wrong and whether we call it. >> kendall, i want to them say, so do you think based on what you're hearing though, if there was conflicting testimony in that way, does that mean for our audience when we talk about probable cause, this grand jury wasn't saying whether he did it or not. does that kind of conflicting testimony rule out probable cause or not? help us to understand since you're a former prosecutor. >> probable cause doesn't mean a consideration of all the testimony and it certainly doesn't mean by definitioning whether there's a reasonable doubt. it means is there a prosecution theory narrative and is there probability that that can be established based on the prosecution's witnesses. certainly a prosecutor has a discretion and should exercise the discretion to decline a case if the prosecutor is convinced there's simply no way to get a conviction but to imply that the

grand jury process is based on a consideration of everything soosed to whether there is probable cause is, frankly, not a fair statement of the process of the grand jury process of the nature of probable cause. >> i don't think this prosecutor ever stepped up into that role to think about constructing any kind i have narrative. i think this is one sort of sad result of this sort of unusual process process that we're seeing. but i also think there's a sort of larger picture for us to think about because mr. mcculloch is not all there is. when you listen to him sort of talking about the misleading or conflicting eyewitness testimony, you guys are the lawyers. you know that eyewitness testimony is not the most reliable piece of any particular case. what you just listened to the tape, those witnesses have never been around a shooting happening

in an area. it happens quickly and there are a lot of things happen package obviously michael brown was moving around. any of those witnesses could have seen him at a different point in the particular situation. to me hearing that and thinking what we know already about the unreliability of eyewitness estestimony and this is a fast moving mobile situation that quickly unfolded, there's nothing that he said that doesn't mean we couldn't have probable cause for this particular indictment. >> you're listening to dr. james peterson speaking about there case. kendall coffey, former u.s. attorney as well as echo yank ca giving their view as criminal law experts. you're viewing live foot and, msnbc federal coverage of the ongoing events in ferguson, missouri. the cars lurning on the left of your screen as we've reported. this is one of several types of fires in about a four-block radius. and other breaking news this hour, the missouri governor here jay flixen putting out a new

press release statement this hour about keeping the national guard ready for obviously the scene you're seeing on your screen and tomorrow morning. we're also awaiting as we've been putting on the screen in the lower third, st. louis county police holding a news conference here at this late hour, 1:30 a.m. local time. that is something that we have been an braised of in the media and we're going to endeavor toe cover it and bring whatever is relevant out of it. the big announcement tonight, of course, was not the police updating us on the state of the city. the big announce. was bob mcculloch, the prosecutor announcing the grand jury did not indict a police officer darren wilson on any charges relateded to the shooting death of michael brown. this is "msnbc live" coverage. kendall coffey still with us, and kendall, i just want to get you back in on the policing that's going on as we await this press conference. let's do that on the other side

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welcome back. we are looking here at a live shot of microphones being set up at this very hour in ferguson, missouri as we await any minute now announcement for the st. louis county police department to hold what would be, of course, an unusual news conference, 1:35 in the morning as cars continue to burn and police continue to patrol in ferguson. as we've emphasized in our context in our coverage, msnbc live coverage2b.r continuing ri now, this is a four-block radius where you're seeing most images of these fires. and yet, it continues to be of great concern obviously to the police who want to hold a briefing and a news conference to governor jay nixon who announced they're calling up additional national guard. what you're seeing on the right side of your screen is some of the folks getting ready in our

camera shot for what be the st. louis county police news conference. i am ari melber anchoring in new york with special coverage. i'm still joined by dr. james peterson, echo yank ca, as well as kendall coffey. they're going to continue to give us their reporting and expertise and play by play while we look at these images that i don't think it's an exaggeration to say images that are captivating the nation. bob mcculloch coming out at around p.m. local time, the prosecutor who handled this case, this case that drew national attention almost from the start when darren wilson was found to have shot michael brown, an 1-year-old african-american and back in august. we are looking there on the screen. some of the st. louis county police who are getting close to approaching the microphones. they haven't begun this briefing. we're going to bring that alive. we have the microphones ready to

do it as soon as they start the presser. that was at about 8:00 that bob mcculloch made the announcement that the grand jury did not indict. >> full assessment of what's going on. i know that there's at least a dozen buildings that have been set on fire. most of those are total losses. i know that i have two st. louis county police cars basically melted on florissant road just to the north of suburban. we've had a lot of incidents with officers being hit by rocks, batteries, different things like that. i can tell you i personally heard about 150 shots fired. it's unfortunate this evening because we planned and captain johnson and myself talked about the fact that we were hoping for peaceful protests. i mean that. we talked about it asser i as this evening saying what it's going to be like tonight. it might not be too bad is

exactly what captain johnson said. i shared that optimism. as soon as mr. mcculloch announced the verdict, the officers started taking rocks and batteries. i was monitoring the time conference along with captain johnson and my senior staff and the senior staff from the highway patrol in st. louis at the time. i told the troops just back off. we'll try tocrete this like some sort of fes civtivafestival. we allowed them to linger there. well, the next thing that happened is we started losing glass across the street. and because of that, we decided to stage but not bring the tack units forward. then we started getting gunfire from across the street. so based on that, we wanted to put the tac trucks in between the businesses and florissant road on the west side to try to

save the businesses. right about this time, we started having problems up to the south at florissant road and paula avenue or suburban avenue. so i actually had a reporter, i won't name the station or the media that came past me and he said fellows, be careful. there's a whole lot of guns in m there. that was at the area at the time which was just about 50 meters to the north of us. so we started seeing a trash canon fire. then noticed the police car on fire. then there was a second police car on fire. we may or may not have made an arrest in that case for burning the police car. we have about a dozen buildings burning. this extended up to old hall's ferry and new hall's ferry, the wedge and west florissant up to 270 even across at the clock

tower. a lot of gunfire. i'm disappointed in this evening. i really don't have any hesitation in telling you that i didn't see a lot of peaceful protests out there tonight. i'm not saying there weren't folks out there for the right reason. i'm not saying that wasn't the case. unfortunately, this spun out of control. frankly what i've sean seen tonight and right in the middle of it along with captain johnson, what i've seen tonight is probably much worse than the worst night we ever had he in august. that's truly unfortunate. i aid several months ago during an interview, what would be the worst thing that could possibly happen. the fact of the matter is i said, to tear the fabric of had community apart. and frankly that has happened here tonight. there's not a lot left on west florissant. those are businesses that may never come back. frankly, i'm heart broken about that. the good news is, we've not fired a shot. as far as i know, we don't have

any serious injuries to police officers. they're banged up a little bit with rocks. one lieutenant from the patrol got hit in the head with a glass bottle. we don't have any serious injuries. he as far as i know we haven't caused any serious injuries tonight. we did deploy tear gas. i said, hey, he goes hey, we were in a death funnel. there was no way we were getting out of this. we also deployed gas at west florissant and chambers road this evening i'm very uplifted by i the fact we don't have any loss of life. because that's the main goal here is preservation of life. but i am disappointed the evening turned out this way. i'd like to turn the microphone over to captain ron johnson. >> i agree with the chief's assessment and it is important we did not lose any lives, no officers have lost their lives and no citizens lost their lives. the officers did a great job tonight, showed great courage. i am disan inpod just like the chief. when i look at our community, it's torn apart.

last august, we talked about the out of towners came in and tore up our community. well, our community's got to take responsibility for what happened tonight for what happened tonight as far as turn our community apart. this cannot happen. we talk about peaceful protests and that did not happen tonight. we definitely have done something here that is going to impact our community for a long time and impact our region. notes not how we create change. it is created through our voice and not through destruction of our community. those are dreams, those are small business owner. we've torn those dreams away. we talked about wanting to have dreams and jobs. and then we do this tonight. i agree with the chief. we're really disappointed. we p all talked about the hope for this region and what we

expected today. >> i have one more comment. our heart goes out to university city officer shot tonight i believe on canton. i don't know his status right now. he's at an area hospital. as far as i know that that is totally unrelated to any events here in ferguson. >> chief, two questions. what happened to the national guard? weren't they supposed to be here to protect all these businesses? and the second question is, by making this announcement so late in the evening, did that put you at a disadvantaging? that it was going to happen at some point no matter what. the as far as the guard goes, they had a steady buildup throughout the day. it's certainly understandable that we can pretty much right now use all the assets we can have. i'm looking forward to additional guard assets to assist these officers so they can deal with the problems and perhaps the guard can help us with some force protection out here. >> damage in surrounding

communities outside of ferguson? >> there was a big blockage downtown on 44 and they started losing windows in the shaw area. i don't know beyond that if they've had anything else. >> city hall i guess was damaged by fire tonight. is that true? >> the delwood city hall? no, it was the about is right next to it, the fire station. we thought it was the city hall but it wasn't. one of the changes we had was trying to cut traffic off this florissant and chambers. i talked to the sergeant on the scene, you've got enough cars to shut off traffic. there was so much gunfire in the area, i was afraid to leave my officers down there. it is a dynamic evening we're dealing with. a question over here. >> officer fired at a mcdonald's on west florissant? >> i think that's possible with the amount of gunfire. i heard of that over the radio when i was up on south florissant. i can't tell you for sure if that happened.

captain johnson and i when we were in west florissant, you know, the officers and ourselves got lit up. i can't imagine they didn't hit one of us. max? >> did law enforcement underestimate the reaction to the grand jury's decision coming? the governor held a news conference. you were there, captain johnson was there. you said we have a plan. we are ready. you look at what is happening now in ferguson, what is happening in st. louis. how can you say. >> i don't think we were underprepared. i'll be honest with you, unless we bring 10,000 policemen in here, i don't think we can prevent folks that really are intent on just destroying a community. it doesn't take very long to throw kerosene in a building and burn it running past. in this kind of area, the officers don't have the ability to understand what's going on around them. so you know, i think we had a good plan. we do have a good plan.

we're going to move forward with the same plan and you know, our pledge was to protect everybody, including the byes. we're working very hard right this moment to do that. >> chief, what the announcement was going to be as far as the grand jury, the governor said he did not know. do you think if you did get a heads-up, that would help in any way? >> i had a very good heads-up along with chief dotson and captain johnson from bob mcculloch yesterday about this. some of the things had to be firmed up and that was firmed up this morning with the prosecuting attorney. i didn't know it was going to be a nonindictment. i had no idea about that. >> would that have helped if you knew that an hour or two hours  before? >> no, i don't believe it would. besides, that's contrary to how we run the grand jury process in this country. that's information that we really shouldn't be privy to to

protect that process. i talked to mr. mcculloch today. he told me the timeline of the announcement and said the only thing i won't tell you is what is the verdict at this point. i said i understand and i wouldn't ask. i understand your question and the reasoning. but you know, with the way we have a grand jury process in this country, i don't think that's appropriate. >> chief, how do you respond to business owners sitting at home right now the watching their businesses burn to the ground? >> i'll tell you that captain johnson and i and sam an dodson have spent countless and countless hours engaging this community. we've talked to the don't shoot coalition. we've spoken to the lost voices, other groups. we've been at meetings mondays after mondays after mondays. some were productive. some weren't. we've met with our clergy. we not only were engaged but we did everything we could to

prevent this in what is a very dangerous environment for everybody to include the proet testers and police officers. >> what you do tomorrow to prevent this from happening again? >> we'll probably have more guard of as sits in there. we'll have a plan going forward with some operational stuff that i'd prefer not to go into that captain johnson and i have just us discussed inside. i think it will mitigate some of the issues. frankly one of the problems is we don't know what he anything's going to look like sometimes till it happens. can you imagine a night liking this? we didn't have anything of this magnitude in august. it was very difficult i think to telegraph exactly what we should have expected. i didn't foresee an evening like this. i will be honest with you. >> what about ---ing >> 29 arrests as far as i know.

i do have some, like i said i have objects in the truck. i have a .45 semi-automatic handgun we seized on south florissant road in an effort to try to disperse the crowd. captain johnson and i are standing together looking at this. at some point, it's incumbent upon law enforcement to get to a point where we have to control certain areas. we have two police cars on fire, we have situations like that. we have to get people to cooperate with us so we can do our job and prevent problems. i had a reporter from france come up to me when i got on south florissant road. he had a gash right here where he was hit by a rock. we had a man run over this evening, he was carjacked. . elderly man. these are things that an really we can't control the environment unless we control the environment at times, and you know, if folks will just cooperate with us, i think it

will cause us all to be a lot safer. >> chief, do you wish you were more aggressive now? >> i don't think aggressive is the right term. again, please understand that when we looked at what initially happened after mr. mcculloch's verdict, we really wanted to try to set the stage to where it the folks that were out there that really wanted to voice concerns and their opinion had the opportunity so a few people wouldn't ruin it for them. i don't think us clearing florissant road immediately would have been a fist to what was going to happen either way. >> in terms of firefighters, is it dangerous in some situations? >> yeah, they made it down to canfield and west florissant. gunfire got too bad and they had to pull back. >> between soleway and chambers, three or four burning in there right now. as i walked out here, i noticed there was a used car lot on

fire. >> what about the role of clergy? what did you see from them tonight and what can you hope from them in the upcoming days. >> we did not see a large clergy out tonight. we did not see a large number out tonight. the few we saw really didn't have a voice with the crowd. hopefully tarm tomorrow we'll see more clergy that will come out and assess. >> why not the large presence we saw back in augusting? ing >> i don't know. i have no idea. i really expected we were going to see a large clergy out tonight. the chief talked about we met with a lot of clergy and did not see them out tonight. >> was anyone shot tonight. >> no, no one was shot tonight. the chief talked there was no loss of life and there were no shots fired by officers. >> captain johnson, how many times have you had to reassess the strategy? >> i think we're always assessing it. we conever have imagined this.

and so we will talking about in the brief and make sure we have a proper assessment tomorrow and make whatever changes we canning for this community. >> you live here. what's your reaction to what you see, what you wit nis? >> hurt, a lot of pain. it's watching an part of your life go up in flames. >> i know -- the rule of the national guard, i heard an interview saying he reached out to governor nixon's office trying to get the national guard mens. what was the role tonight of national guard. >> i don't know about the conversation the mayor had with the governor. guard is an asset. we're going to use them to help free up officers. >> do you think there's a place for a curfew to come back? >> at this point, a curfew won't have made a difference. we'll continue to do what we need to do to assess and make this community safe. >> two more questions.

>> the mentality of your officers out there? obviously they're going through a lot. can you make a comment just what they're going through. >> i saw a lot of disappointment in their faces. they put a lot of courage in keeping in this community safe. there's a lot of disappointment in them also. >> we don't have the exact addresses and locations but we will have that will later on. if you want to check with us later or sometime tomorrow, we'll definitely have where they're from. >> you said a lot of businesses might not come back. the idea is these businesses might not come back. talking about where ferguson goes from here and if the city's going to survive at all. >> if we're going to survive at all, we're going to having to come together and what happened tonight be can't happen, can't continue on. if we're going to come together and be better we very to come together and make changes. right now this community is

fractured. >> thank you, guys. >> thanks, guys. >> you've been listening life to a fairly extraordinary press conference with chief ron johnson and chief jon belmar. you don't often see a police preference conference at 1:30 in the morning. we're looking at live i thinks of cars on fire. we can now provide courtesy you have that police presser some updates on what we know about what's happened tonight. police saying they made 29 arrests. but 12 buildings were on fire, characterizing most of those buildings as "total losses." the police jon belmar and roun ron jaupz talking about 150 shots over the course of the night, referring to shots they observed, not police shooting. they described police efforts to be as unincendiary as possible, according to their account. they said that there were times

where they were taking gunfire, that they were trying to simply move protesters peacefully both individuals there, both police officers basically saying they were highly disappointed. john belmar saying "i didn't see a lot of peaceful protests tonight." and ron johnson has a lot of credibility in the community to state the obvious. he is an african-american senior law enforcement officer. but beyond the obvious is someone who was brought in after some of the incidents in august and seen as someone who tried to work with the prop testers. what ron johnson said tonight as someone who has more credibility with grass-roots and others, he was equally disappoint bpd that there was tafring the fabric of the community part. that he was deeply disappointed. he said specifically he agreed with the chief's assessment

referring to john belmar there who i should note was pretty clear and direct one might say critical and opinionated about this. it was not a just the facts presentation. and kental, since you've worked with law enforcement and police so much throughout your career, give us some understanding here of why and how the police would choose to come out at this point in the night and start to explain their view of what's happened and what's to come. >> i think it's inevitable they're going to be second-guessed and criticized either for overreacting or for underreacting. the message i heard tonight we're not there. we're basically relying on what p what they're saying is that there was a real effort to not overkill, overdo and provoke the community this time. that in fact, they made forever effort as he described it perhaps successfully not to return fire to provide protection rather than

aggressive gathering that if in fact nobody was killed, 29 arrests were made, even though two police cars were burning, 11 buildings were burning, hen it seems to indicate to me that this police department was acting reasonably in trying to live within some measure of self-restraint. that is a good thing. on the other hand -- >> and were you surprised though that they were putting such a negative gloss when everyone from the governor on down has talked about the risk of greater unrest% >> quickly kendall, your take on the chief's statement that the timing of this didn't matter even though we've been reporting it's unusual to release this

kind you have information at night. >> i disagree. i think it should have been released in the morning. i think captain johnson said he was surprised there weren't a lot of clergy. if this was done in the morning and community leaders had been contacted including clergy, there could have been a different presence out in the immediate aftermath of the announcement, a community-driven presence, not a presence like we saw tonight. >> right. kendall coffey, former u.s. attorney who's been giving us so much good context, dr. james peterson and thanks to our reporters on the ground in ferguson, our live coverage continues with thomas roberts especially msnbc live coverage from ferguson. that's up next. the conference call.

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hi, everybody. good morning. i'm thomas roberts here in new york, and we're following the breaking news out of ferguson, missouri. last night st. louis county prosecuting attorney bob mcculloch making the announcement of the grand jury decision not to indict police officer darren wilson in the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager michael brown. >> they determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against officer wilson and returned a no true bill on each of the five indictments. the physical and scientific evidence examined by the grand jury combined with the witness statements supported and