over an average adult lifetime. but there's a better choice. drink more brita water. clean, refreshing, brita. this sunday, a "meet the press" summit, race in america. protests across the country following a grand jury's decision not to indict police officer darren wilson in ferguson, missouri. >> a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of color. >> are we just as divided under america's first black president? plus, are democrats turning on president obama? this week, a surprising attack from one of the leaders of the party. >> democrats blew the opportunity the american people gave them. the republican revolution. >> we are heading to washington, and we are going to make them squeal. >> what impact will younger more

conservative gop lawmakers have on the country? i'm chuck todd. joining me for insight and analysis are eugene robinson of the washington post, my colleague at nbc andrea mitchell, helene cooper of the new york times and rich lauer, editor of national review. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." good morning. one huge story has dominated the news this week. it's the aftermath of the grand jury decision in ferguson. last night we learned that police officer darren wilson resigned from the ferguson police force. wilson submitted a resignation letter in which he said he wanted to stay on but that "the safety of other police officers and the community are of paramount importance to me. it is my hope that my resignation will allow the community to heal. there's a lot of healing that needs to be done. this morning we are going to focus on race relations in this country, almost three-quarters

of the way through president obama's historic president. in a moment i will be joined by deval patrick of massachusetts. and later, we will have a special panel to discuss race in america. let's look at how the president has handled the most explosive of issues. >> there is not a black america and a white america and latino america and asian america. there's the united states of america. >> president obama who cast himself as a symbol of hope for a post-racial america a decade ago saw that vision splinter again this week replaced by the split screen reality. >> we are a nation built on the rule of law. and so we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. >> on one side images of tear gas and protests. on the other, a cautious commander in chief who is running out of time in office. the president's reticence after a grand jury decided not to indict darren wilson in the

shooting death of unarmed teenager michael brown stands in stark contrast to the personal comments the president made after another teenager, trayvon martin was shot two years ago by a civilian. >> if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. another way of saying that is that trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. there are few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. that includes me. >> barack obama has had to shoulder the burdens and expectations of being the nation's first black president since before he was elected to the job. six years ago then candidate obama gave what was then a risky speech about his experience as a black man in america. his hand forced by the controversy over jeremiah wright. >> i can no more disown him than i can my white grandmother, a woman who loves me as much as

she loves anything this had world but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who pass her by on the street. >> that speech was praised. a year later he learned launching a conversation on race could have pitfalls when he criticized law enforcement for arresting harvard professor henry louis gates. >> the police acted stupidly. there is a long history in this country of african-americans and latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately. that's just a fact. >> police union officials called for an apology. the president backed away and diffused it with a photo op, a beer summit. the president's supporters have been more willing to say the color of his skin may impact how some americans perceive his presidency than obama himself. >> there's also a dark -- a dark vein of intolerance in some parts of the party. >> former secretary of state colin powell indicted the tea party on this show last year.

this week hesitant to criticize law enforcement, the president argued that though there are problems, the country has made progress. >> ferguson signifies the end of the age of obama. it's a very sad end. >> six years into the obama presidency, hooltd income for african-americans is just $35,000 a year. that's $20,000 less than whites and no better than when the president took office. white unemployment was 4.8% last month. black unemployment was 10.9%. black men are move than six times as likely as white men to be incarcerated. black men between the ages of 15 and 19 are 21 times as likely as whites to be killed by a police officer. i'm joined by the outgoing democratic governor of massachusetts. before you made it into elected politics you worked in the clinton justice department in the civil rights division.

this is now with the grand jury's decision not to indict officer darren wilson, the civil rights division is investigating. walk us through the process. what are they investigating? what action could they end up taking? >> it's a higher bar as we were talking about off camera that the doj has to consider. it's a consideration whether there's a violation of civil or constitutional rights. that's different from what the grand jury in a state prosecution has to consider. and it will be a tough case to prove. i say that without -- that is to bring. i say that without knowing all the puts and takes of the case and what all the facts are. it will be very difficult.

it's very important, i think, that doj is investigating it. i know that attorney general holder has been urging that investigation and will drive it through to conclusion. >> did you want to see an indictment? >> look, without knowing all the facts, of course, i wanted to see an indictment. mostly because i think a trial and the transparency of a trial would be good for the community. and because so many of us have the supposition that police officers are not going to be held accountable and not going to have to answer for the shooting of unarmed young black teenagers. but the facts and the process as the president says does have to be respected. that's separate and apart from the anxiety so many black people have about encounters with law enforcement, the anxiety that some in law enforcement have about their encounters with black people and the lack of understanding between the two. >> it's interesting. you were asked in an interview in august about ferguson. and you were asked how you would have handled the situation if you were in president obama's shoes. you said, i'm glad i don't have to. >> yeah. >> how -- what would you be wanting president obama to do? anything more than he has done?

do you think he should go? >> i think he wants to go, by the way. and that's not because i know that. i just sense that knowing the man. i think he would like to be there to comfort the family of michael brown who are having to relive this all over again and to reissue both community at large and the community of law enforcement. >> why isn't he going? he wants to go but he -- >> my sense is -- what i would suspect -- you asked me what i would do. the reason it's a quandary is because the federal government is investigating. you don't want to appear to influence that investigation. >> holder went, and he's part of the investigation. >> you don't want to appear as president to influence that investigation. i think also that the president is in a really tough place trying to be and having elected to -- been elected to serve as president as the whole country and having higher expectations on issues related to race.

and i have experienced that at home. >> how did you deal with an issue like -- do you feel as if you were worried about looking like you were playing favorite snz. >> yeah, i did. i remember there was an early experience relatively early experience -- it all seems early now almost eight years in. >> sure. >> when we had a terrible loss of a teenage boy -- a black boy in the roxbury neighborhood of boston. it appeared to have been a gang-related killing of a marvellous kid from a marvellous family. and the mother, in her anguish, called out -- called me out in the media and said, you know, where is the governor? now, governors aren't normally expected to come to street crime scenes. she hadn't called out the mayor. but we had run a very

grass-roots campaign. so we had engaged a lot of people. the expectations of me by virtue of being a black elected official were different. and i had to learn that. and ultimately, i did go out. >> i want to shift to the future of the democratic party. i want to play a bite from chuck schumer. take a listen. >> democrats blew the opportunity the american people gave them. we took their mandate and put all of our focus on the wrong problem, healthcare reform. but it wasn't the change we were hired to make. americans were crying out for the end to the recession for better wages and more jobs, not changes in healthcare. >> do you agree? >> i respect him but i don't agree with him. i think americans understand the interconnectedness of a whole host of solutions the government should pay attention to, not that they think government should solve every problem in

their lives. but the government should help them help themselves. you ask somebody who is not ensured and is sick or someone getting buried by healthcare-related de debt whether healthcare reform makes a difference and they say -- they will tell you that it does make a difference. >> where is the democratic party go from here? is this soul searching time for the party? >> it ought to be. election day was a good day for republicans, great day for citizens united and a bad day for democrats who don't stand for anything. when democrats do stand for something or as i have said in the past grow a backbone and stand up for what it is we believe, we win. because what we believe is what the american people are hunt -- >> you think democrats made a mistake? >> i think it was a huge mistake. this is a president who has presided over explosive growth in corporate profits, in stock market returns, employment that's come back strong after the worst economy -- economic collapse in a generation or two, universal healthcare, bin laden's removal and the end of two wars and on and on. one problem the president has is

he doesn't tell the story well or regularly. you know the importance of repetition is something i had to learn. it's not to say that everything has been solved, we have reached the promised land. but we are better off than we were. >> hillary clinton, you have praised her, talked about admiring her from afar. you don't know her well. you say you are concerned about this air of inevitability, it's bad for the party. >> i think hillary clinton -- secretary clinton has been an extraordinary public servant and would be a terrific candidate for president. but i think that the narrative that it's inevitable is off putting to regular voters. >> she should be challenged? >> i don't mean that as a criticism of her. i just think that people read inevitability as entitlement. the american people want and

ought to want their candidates to sweat for the job. to actually make a case for why they are the right person at the right time. >> you were at 1% guide when you decided to run for governor. you ended up winning the democratic primary. are you thinking about it in 2016? >> i have thought about it. i can't get ready for 2016. by the way, i ran for governor -- this is the first elected office i have held. it has been two really challenging and fun terms where we emerged at leadership nationally, healthcare, veteran services, energy efficiency, economic competitiveness and so on. but i didn't run for the job to get another job, just to do this job. >> why didn't a democrat replace you? >> well, you know -- >> do you feel it was a rejection of your two years? >> i wasn't on the ballot. i ran against the same -- against the governor-elect four years ago.

we had a different outcome then. we had a good candidate who got better as she came closer to election day. of course, she was outspent nine or ten to one. >> you don't feel any responsibility for that? >> the well, look, i'm sorry. but the outcomes of elections depend on the candidates, not the folks on the sidelines. >> thanks for coming to "meet the press." good to see you. >> thank you. let's turn to the panel. andrea mitchell, i want to start with you. i want to go to ferguson and president obama on his handling of it. it was interesting to hear governor patrick say there is a higher level of expectation -- he felt it as governor and president obama feels it. >> i think what the white house is trying to do -- you pointed out so deftly in your set-up piece. he is handling this very differently than trayvon martin. he clearly identifies and many, many people identify with michael brown and with the michael brown family. but because it's a case involving law enforcement, i think that the white house is a

little bit more restrained in their ability to step into the middle of this even though there has been a lot of outreach, valerie jared talking to people. the presence of the president in a situation that volatile involving the law enforcement community where facts are they say disputed would be potentially a very -- a very difficult political -- >> eugene, has he, too, been reticent? >> this is the ultimate no win situation, isn't it? i wrote once when he was running for president that in order to win he had to be seen as the least aggrieved black men in america. i believe that's true. because if he doesn't, he loses part of a white constituency. it goes away. let's be honest. he's damned if he goes, if he stays, if he says anything substantive or equivocates. and that's just the lot of the first black president of the united states. >> rich, you have been very

skeptical of the entire michael brown story in general. i'm curious what you think of how the president, his public statements, what do you make of them? >> well, i would have tweaked things he said last week. basically he was right on. i appreciated the sincere and heartfelt denunciation of the random and pointless destruction in ferguson. i think he made a very important point which is that poor communities need policing, because drug dealing, gang activity, rampant criminality, relatively affluent people can buy their way out of that by moving some place else. poor people can't. they need the police to help protect them that from that. >> watching what the doj investigation does, is that going to open up more wounds or racing too much expectation in

the african-american community? what's the end result of the justice department -- it's a high bar. >> i think that has -- i think the doj investigation certainly has the potential to make things worse. it would be nice if we could sort of move on from this. but the fundamental issue is still there. and what -- at the same time -- >> what is that issue? >> the fundamental issue is not even necessarily michael brown. it's that this keeps happening to black men. it's the issue of driving while black. this friend of mine wrote a fantastic article in the wall street journal about what it feels like to be a 250 black guy under suspicion walking down the street for nothing. this is something -- i want to finish this. as long as black people continue to feel that you cannot walk down the street without coming under suspicion, this anger is going to continue. >> it's a familiar story. we have heard it many times. i wanted to comment on one thing, poor communities want

policing. you will find the most law and order-oriented people you can ever find in low income communities that have a crime problem. they want policing with -- that's done with the community instead of to the community. that's one of the issues. >> they want policing not with a majority white police force on a black community. >> what's interesting when you look at whites, whites that live in urban communities are much -- believe that we have -- still have a race problem in the country. whites that live in more rural whiter communities, they don't see the race issue. do you think that's part of our divide? that maybe rural whites don't see this issue the way folks that live in urban america? >> perhaps. you look at ferguson specifically. this is an area where the governmental structures haven't caught up to the demographic change over the last two decades or so. that's something you take care of by organizing and voting.

but what i really object to is you can discuss all these problems but let's not pretend that this particular incident was something it wasn't. if you look at the most credible evidence, the lessons are basic. don't rob a convenience store. don't fight a policeman when he stops you and try to take his gun. when he yells at you to stop with his gun drawn, just stop. >> i don't want -- >> relitigation. there was conflicting testimony on those. >> michael brown is not trayvon martin. >> no, he's not trayvon martin. neither is darren wilson george zimmerman. there are clear differences. we're not in the re-litigation business. we won't go into the whole thing. there was conflicting testimony. there were witnesses who were not believed who said otherwise. there are witnesses who were believed who -- >> that's -- >> physical evidence backs up

officer wilson's version. >> one quick point. cities like baltimore, maryland, are doing things on diversity of police force that has anything to do with elected -- while officials can diversify their police forces. >> we will take a pause here. we will do more of this, our summit on race in america goes more in-depth right after this break. brought to you by boeing where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry into the sign-then- drive event and get a five-hundred- dollar black friday bonus on select new volkswagen models. black friday bonus offer ends december 1st. started using gain flings,fe their laundry smells more amazing than ever. (sniff) honey, isn't that the dog's towel?

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welcome back. let me show you the cover of this week's "new yorker." it shows the broken state of race relations in st. louis which is the metro area that encompasses ferguson. the grand jury's decision not to indict darren wilson provoked unrest. in ferguson, the cleanup effort is in progress after a number of businesses were wrecked and looted. protests were on the weekend and a boycott. black friday in campaign to response to the decision, malls in st. louis were forced to close their doors. protesters in seattle chained doors of a shopping center and successfully closed that. in oakland, a rail station was temporarily closed after activists chained themselves to trains. i'm joined by the president of the naacp legal defense and education fund, david brook, ben carson from johns hopkins and

from boston, charles ogletree. he's a professor at harvard law school. welcome to all of you. thank you for doing this. professor, i want to get your reaction to this. last pew poll that studied this. one in four people say the situation of black people is better now than it was five years ago, it's a double digit drop from 2009 and the euphoria of the election of the first black president. are we no better off today? is the african-american public right about this, we're no better off today in race relations than we were six years ago? >> i think we're right, chuck. i hate to say this, but i think about what my father and grandfather told me about race relations way back when i was a young kid, how they were devastated with the idea of separation based on race. it is worse now.

we think of people who don't have jobs who can't go to school, people who can't get healthcare. we are in a situation right now that will create fergusons over and over and over again. it's not just ferguson, missouri. it's around country. we see this racial divide despite the fact that it's a black president, who i love dearly, there's a racial divide in america that's not going to end with trayvon martin being killed, with michael brown being killed, with the 12-year-old being killed by police. it's not going to end at all. >> ben, do you agree? >> i agree that things have definitely deteriorated. we look at a situation like ferguson and people say, that's causing more racial division. the fact of the matter is, ferguson is a manifestation of the racial division as we see it right now. obviously, there are a lot of people around this nation who feel things are unfair for them, who feel disenfranchised.

it makes them ripe for a tinder box situation like this. >> it seems to be almost universal agreement on this. >> i have to disagree on this. we are looking at mike brown. but the issue of law enforcement and the killing of unarmed african-americans and the assault of unarmed african-americans has been going on for decades and has nothing to do with obama. my first exposure was when i was 10-year-old. this is in the early 1970s. the difference now is that we have these photos, we have these cell phone pictures. this is something, an issue that civil rights organizations have been working on forever and we haven't been listened to. people haven't believed us. >> do you think social media, if we had it 30 years ago, would have expedited this conversation, expedited this uncomfortable moment that we're having? >> it is an uncomfortable conversation. one of the reasons we don't make progress is it's so uncomfortable. every time we bring up the issue, we start talking about violence in the black community or what some people call black

on black crime, which is an important conversation to have and we should have a show about it, but it doesn't have to do with the power of the state of law enforcement to follow you, to shoot you in public housing in a stairway, to kill a 12-year-old boy for carrying a toy gun, to kill a man in walmart for carrying a toy gun, to kill people unarmed, to tase someone in front of their children. we're talking about the way law enforcement engaging the african-american community. >> last week in some describe a caricature of the debate between rudy giuliani and michael eric die son on this show. >> let's play a clip. >> what about the poor black child that is killed by another black child? why aren't you protesting that? >> those people go to jail. i protest it. they go to jail. talk about the way in which white policemen undercut the ability of americans to live. >> why don't you cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black areas? >> that was speaking of uncomfortable conversations to witness, that was an uncomfortable conversation. in many ways it exposed the

prism that white america and black american see this. >> we all have to have a new social compact on thisment whites especially have to show respect to understand how differently whites and blacks see some of the police issues. whites can't say, does this look right, but does this look trustworthy to people in the african-american people? we have to understand that we're no longer in the civil rights era. this is not a question of good versus evil, right versus wrong. racial inequality has become entangled in domestic problems of disappearing jobs, family structure. this is mostly a question of good intentioned people trying to do the best they can with very naughty social problems which overlap with social problems. >> pharrell williams said something interesting. he has that song we love "happy." in "ebony" he was talking about michael brown. he said this -- it looked very bullyish.

that in itself i had a problem with. not with the kid but whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is okay. why aren't we talking about that? are we focusing on the wrong part of this conversation? we're talking about law enforcement and the relationship between the black community and the law enforcement community when we obviously had a breakdown somewhere in michael brown's life. >> we have to talk on both of them. talk about michael brown and the police. there's no question about that. i think that hearing this, i like the song "happy." it's on my phone at home. you want to listen to it. it makes a lot of difference. the reality is that michael brown did not have a gun. he put his hands up. michael brown was trying to avoid confrontation. i think that we need to understand why we have these data -- it's clear that black boys are being killed by white police officers around the

country from north to south, from east to west. it doesn't end. i think we have to make sure that we're responding to that, making the people like michael brown understand it and deal with it. but make sure we don't have these things happen again. >> we heard dwb, that black men experience this, driving while black. yes, i drive in a white neighborhood and if i'm not doing the speed limit, i'm going to get pulled over like that. >> that does happen. >> ever happen to you? >> yes. the attorney general of missouri last year had a report that came out that said in the ferguson area blacks were serve season times more likely to be stop and twice as more likely to be arrested. >> whose fault is that? >> well, the real question is, what do we do about this kind of situation? you know, everybody is going to be off in their corner.

people are a product of their life experiences. can we actually solve this problem? there are a lot of things that we can probably talk about. for instance, police being equipped with cameras. as you probably know, in situations -- >> there's a movement of having cameras. >> 85% of these things would be stopped. >> what do you think? >> california equipped their officers with camera, the crime rate and abuse dropped. real training of police officers. if you look at some of the encounters we see, look at the 12-year-old boy who was killed, it's within seconds. you are watching these encounters in which the police arrive on the scene and they are unable to deescalate, to assess the situation, to see when we are dealing with a child. police officers need real training. they need training in implicit bias. we like to say that it's well intentioned people, but there are biases in this country. we do have images in our head that are racial. if you heard darren wilson's testimony when he talked about mike brown, almost as an animal he was bulking up. he seemed like hulk hogan. we have these images in our head. the only way we can deal with those images is to slow things down, is to give police officers

the training that they need to be able to manage their own biases so they can properly assess the situation. >> david brooks, how does this conversation continue next week is this we say we will have this hard conversation and guess what, next week we won't. >> i really don't believe in a conversation about race. if we're going to be friends, we don't sit around saying we're such great friends. let's talk about our friendship. we don't need a conversation. we need a project. friendship is about something else. it's outward looking. the project is about social mobility. the project is about early childhood education, all things that failed michael brown. family formation, jobs. if we have a common project about the harlem zone, kip schools, we have something we can do together and that will unite us. >> sounds like broken windows. thank you for this conversation. are you running for president? >> i should quickly tell you, maybe. >> fair enough. we will be watching that. by the way, to end this discussion on a more optimistic note, let's look at this very powerful image in a rally in oregon. it's 12-year-old devonte heart and a police sergeant hugging it out. he attended the rally eager to

convey a message of peace. he held up a sign offering free hugs. the officer was more than happy to oblige.

as we all spent time with our families around this holiday season, it's important to remember those who have served ou as we all spent time with our families around this holiday season, it's important to remember those who have served our country in the military. luke russert spent time at heritage brewing company. it's a veteran-owned company that not only employs many veterans but they give 1% of their profits to charity as well, which is not always an easy task for a start-up company. this is a fantastic story. it's posted right now on our website. we will be right back here with the place where the immigration debate may ultimately be decided, and it's nowhere near a border. ably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways

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time for our time for our "meet the press" nerd screen. since we made a graphic, nerd screen is official. president obama's executive action on immigration set off a fight with republicans. we know where in the country that fight might get settled, with real implications for 2016. first let's look at the numbers from our latest nbc news wall

street journal poll taken before the president's announcement. overall, 38% approved of the idea of him taking executive action, 48% disapproved. our friends took a closer look at the numbers to see how different communities responded to the same question. first a quick reminder, this is how they see the country. this map breaks the u.s. down into 15 different types of counties. all of which have their own unique view of american politics. people in the big cities, the pink parts, are supportive of the president's move. 48% approved of the action before he took it, 31% disapproved. people who live between suburban and rural america, the yellow part of the map, they are

strongly opposed. 56% disapproved, 36% approved. the president is not likely to win these folks over. that brings us to the suburbs, dark orange on our map. that's where attitudes are split down the middle. 41% approved of the idea of the president doing unilateral moves on immigration, 44% disapproved. why is this divide important? because it's here in the urban suburbs, where democrats have the most to lose if people turn against the president. the democrats need these places to win national elections. 67 million people live in these areas. president obama won them by a whopping 16 points in 2012. if these communities turn against the executive action that the president took, it's possible democratic presidential conditions will be faced with a hard choice, support the president and risk turning off the potential swing runners or run against the executive action and possibly turn off hispanic voters. that's an important part of the democratic base vote. that decision point isn't two years away. it may be a few months away. the suburbs are already a swing vote that has to be acknowledged. these are the questions potential candidates have to consider now because of the issue of immigration not going away any time soon. speaking of immigration, house republicans have to figure out

how they will react to the president's decision. so does the new senate republican majority. tom cotton is one of both, a house republican and about to become a senator in the new majority. he is next. -then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry into the sign-then- drive event and get a five-hundred- dollar black friday bonus on select new volkswagen models. black friday bonus offer ends december 1st.

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welcome back. we all think change doesn't come fast to the senate. here is a statistic welcome back. we all think change doesn't come fast to the senate. here is a statistic that surprised us. three-quarters of the nation's senators will have started their

career after 9/11. there has been a lot of turnover in the world's most deliberative body. they are getting younger. the average age is 50, ten years younger than the average age of the senate. one reason the average age is going down is thanks to our next guest, tom cotton. at 37, he is the youngest member of the senate. his victory over mark pryor helped give republicans their new majority. >> i think i may have brought that average down by six years. >> there you go. let's start with immigration. you are a sitting member of the house. there's been speculation that house republicans this week are going to decide on how to retaliate against the president on his decision. what's the decision going to be? >> we will come back from the thanksgiving holiday and make a decision the best way to proceed. congress has to stand up to protect our prerogative, which is stand up for the american people.

the president just lost an election in no small measure because wages for working families are declining and unemployment is still too high. the first big action he took was to make it easier for illegal immigrants to get jobs, not for working families to get jobs. >> one of the ideas that's been floating out there is to pass all of the spending bills through september of next year and just isolate anything that has do with immigration. do you agree with that idea? >> that's one possible solution. that would stop our spending on other things. we might pass a short-term spend ing measure to -- >> you are against the idea that -- >> i will consult with my colleagues in the senate and the house to decide on an immediate path forward. i'm reluctant to see the spending power that the congress has under the constitution for three-eighths of the remainder

of the presidency. >> would republicans be on higher ground if the house passed an immigration bill? >> i think we should pass a bill that -- >> why didn't you? >> there weren't the votes in the house going forward to focus on the real problems that the people of arkansas shared with me during the campaign, a bill that focused on building a border fence or enforcing laws and getting a handle on legal immigration. but the new congress will focus on those. >> you said immigration you thought was the number one issue, the reason why you and so many republicans won. >> certainly. a central issue. but too many are worried about the impact that immigration is having on their community, jobs for working families. that's why they want us to address the problems. >> you brought up one other issue during the campaign. i want to ask about you it. let me play audio about the immigration issue.

they could infiltrate our defenseless southern border and attack us right here in places like arkansas. you didn't bring up terrorism with me. you did in a campaign phone call. is that just campaign rhetoric? >> no. >> what's the evidence? >> hezbollah has tried to launch terrorist attacks. they are under federal indictment collaborating with locals in mexico to attack us. as long as our border is open and defenseless it's a national security issue. we know the drug cartels are focused on power and profit. they will branch out into any activity if it bring ares them more money and helps them consolidate control. that's why we need control of our border. >> do you worry rhetoric makes it that much harder to get some sort of agreeable immigration bill? that placed a fear. >> the islamic state is cutting the head off of americans here. that's something we should be fearful of and we should take a

stance against whether in iraq and syria or securing our southern border. >> one thing you did as a congressman, you were alone in voting against the farm bill. some people thought that was a problem for you. it turned out to be. explain to me what your job as a senator is -- how much do you represent arkansas versus representing the interests outside of arkansas. >> i voted against that bill because i thought it wasn't in the interest of arkansas -- >> you were in the minority. >> everyone has disagreements. but i didn't think it was a good idea to spend a trillion dollars at a time when we are almost 18 trillions in debt, when arkansas was only half a percent of the benefit and half was food stamps spending. no one will agree with every word i speak or every vote i cast. i hope everyone will know i'm looking out for their interests. >> do you think too many senators are parochial? that was a nonoh -- nonparochial

move. in my view what's in the best national interest, maybe it wasn't in the best financial interest -- >> i thought it was in the interest of farmers and in our national interest when you look at deficit reduction. if you look at farm counties i won across arkansas, you will see farmers agrees and said so at the time. >> tom cotton, you have some cleanup work here in the house. we will watch to see what happens on immigration. thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you. >> don't go anywhere. in 45 seconds, we will hear from janay rice, what she has to say about roger goodell. to say

welcome back. the panel is here. helene cooper, when i brought you -- i wanted you on the show. your big scoop had to do with an outgoing defense secretary, chuck hagel, he was fired by the president. number one, why do we think he was fired? do we really think he was fired? who do you think the president will replace him with? >> wow. you don't ask anything hard. >> not at all. you are the one who broke the story. you own the story now, cooper. >> i own it. i think he was -- the phrase we are using is resigned under pressure.

i think president obama was very fine with seeing him leave because it's sort of -- in many ways, chuck hagel was exactly the defense secretary that president obama wanted. he wanted to take the temperature down a notch after -- >> a smaller personality in. >> he didn't want a rock star military general. he didn't want the constant fighting with the pentagon over troop numbers in iraq and afghanistan. hagel gave him everything he wanted. at the end of the day, chuck hagel was viewed by the white house as almost too passive. i think the real reason why he was let go is because the white house, after the mid terms, felt luke they needed to show they were doing with -- they were shaking up the national security team. the reality is he didn't want to shake up his national security team. he went for the lowest hanging fruit. >> it was interesting to see the

republicans who voted against chuck hagel in confer rags suddenly embrace him. >> i agree firing is too harsh. this is what gwyneth paltrow would call conscious decoupling. >> wow. pharrell williams and gwyneth paltrow on the same show. >> i thought hagel was brought on to be a non-factor and was performing in that role. i was surprised by this. you now have three former defense secretaries that say the white house is too insular and is micromanaging on foreign policy. you have a policy making process that is troubled. and a substantive policy that i believe is a disaster. >> the question is where does the substantive policy go? specifically, islamic state. and to me the war seems to be in the sort of untenable middle ground where it's kind of a war but not really. which way does it go from here? >> the fact is that he was hired to get out of afghanistan and iraq. and now we are in both.

>> we signed an agreement. >> we are training and we are on the ground in iraq. they criticized him for being too passive. they wanted someone passive. >> i want to shift a little bit. janay rice, of course ray rice's wife during the domestic violence incident that happened in atlantic city. here is what has been here is what janay rice said he knew. >> when the commissioner of the nfl roger goodell says ray was ambiguous and the nfl says it was a starkly different sequence of events, is the commissioner lying? >> i can't say he's telling the truth. i know for a fact that he told -- that ray told the honest truth, that he has been telling from february. >> and you think the league and the commissioner covered their butts? >> i think they did what they had to do for themselves. >> rich, i know you are an nfl fan.

bill simmons got suspended from espn for speculating that roger goodell was a liar. she said roger goodell lied. >> the notes seem to back her up. this seemed bizarre that you would punish him twice for the same offense. the first time too lightly, the second time too severely. the process has been a mess it's a big threat to the future of roger goodell. in the long-term, i believe the biggest threat to the nfl is the concussion issue. >> it would be -- goodell's job would be on line if he weren't hired by the owners who are still backing him as of now. >> i think it may still be on the line. >> he makes so much money for the owners. >> somebody else can do the same thing. >> the other thing from that interview though that really jumped out at me is that she remembers nothing of what

happened in the elevator because he hit her so hard. talk about concussions. it was appalling. it's an amazing thing to have seen. so i do think this is a big issue for the nfl. i understand why the nfl is trying to get out front and not be behind this curve, what did goodell know and when did he know it, i suspect we will learn more about this. let's go lighter here. it's officially here. cyber monday is tomorrow. many of you braved all the black friday crowds on tuesday of last year. i happen to know andrea rushed out. she's a big play station 4 gal. huge grand theft auto fan. for those of you who haven't gotten ahead on your holiday gift shopping, we have our top five gifts for the political junky in your life. for the justice and hip hop loving person in your life, it's the notorious r.b.g. t-shirt in justice ruth bader ginsburg was released from the hospital this week. a stent put in and is expected to hear arguments tomorrow.

good for her. number four, you want to dress like a president. done. george h.w. bush socks complete with the gop elephant and embroidered signature. i know what i'm getting helene. back at the court. look how cool this is or shall we say hot. this has supreme court cases. add hot coffee and the losers vanish. i know what i'm getting pete williams. there's the ted cruz coloring book. a missouri company has that line and what they call special event coloring books. this stars the texas junior senator 2016 hopeful ted cruz. it's very nice. here you go, gene. finally, what i'm getting you -- your dog or cat, they don't stop talking about hillary clinton. now they can show they are ready for hillary, too. the lucky cat collar or dog

leash. the price for both is $20.16. there it is. that's what you want, right? >> shopping is done. >> thank you. that was great. >> a t-shirt for you. >> appreciate it. >> this is what we do here. on a more -- a little heavier note here at the end, 2016 we talk about ted cruz, ben carson. what do we make of ben carson? he is incredible popular. >> he is going to be a real factor in iowa. that part of the field will be crowded. >> they are both the tea-vangelicals. ted cruz and ben carson is cool. they have two different temperaments. >> ted cruz has won election in texas. >> carson has not. >> he has no political

background at all. i was watching. >> that could be an asset. >> i was watching him on maryland pbs last night. he taped it about a year ago. his lecture on the brain, fascinating stuff. a live audience. >> the rest of us are watching football. andrea is watching a pbs special. >> i saw he was on the tube. >> she wasn't watching the iron bowl. that is not what was happening. you were terrific. speep thanksgiving weekend. >> i should do the nerd thing. >> before we go. quick note, this week if it's tuesday, it will be the ten-year anniversary, ready for that -- ten-year anniversary of brian williams anchoring "nbc nightly news." many congratulations to him. a decade, brother! nice work. hope to match you. >> if it's thursday, allison williams -- >> live peter pan. that's all for today. because if it's sunday, next week, it will be "meet the press." sunday, next week, it will be "meet the press."

oh, my god! >> a man pinned under a flaming gas tank. >> don't let me burn. don't let me die. >> a stalled plane drops from the sky. >> started diving. holy crap. >> everything goes blank after that. a little girl stumbles on the edge of a cliff. >> oh, my god! a family's roof gone with the wind. >> it sounded like an explosion. >> whoa! one bungee jumper's cord wraps around his neck. >> i saw my life flash before my eyes. >> another's snaps. slamming him into the water. >> i was the most scared i've ever been in my life. inches away from disaster,