federal is the way to go. the solution has to come from the federal government. thank you so much. that's the ed show. politics nation with al sharpton starts right now. >> good evening. thank you for tuning in. news tonight, no indictment in the nypd chokehold death of grand jury not bringing charges against officer daniel pantaleo in the death of eric garn he. he was confronted by police officers for selling loose cigarettes. a minor, nonviolent offense. and it led to this. >> don't touch me. do not touch me. [ bleep ].

>> you can see the officer with his arm wrapped around his neck. garner died a short time later. the medical examiner ruled it a homicide. caused in part by compression of the neck. this case has been a flash point. in a string of high profile incidents involving police and unarmed black men. unlike the shooting of michael brown, the garner encounter was caught on tape. they will conduct an investigation of the death. late today president obama reacted to the grand jury decision. >> i'm not interested in talk. i'm interested in action. and i am absolutely committed as president of the united states to making sure that we have a country in which everybody believes in the core principle that we are equal under the law.

so this is an american problem and not just a black problem or a brown problem or a native-american problem. this is an american problem. when anybody in this country is not being treated equally under the law, that's a problem. and it is my job as president to help solve it. >> here's what new york city mayor de blasio said a while ago. >> no family should have to go what the garner family went through. the tragedy is personal to this family but it has become something personal to so many of us. it conforms to something bigger that you've heard come out in the protests in ferguson and all over the country. this is now a national moment of grief. a national moment of pain and searching for a solution. >> today's decision raises deep and painful questions.

about justice in america. i've been involved in the last four months in dealing and rallying and supporting the call for justice in staten island, in ferguson, and in other parts of the country. why? not because we want to show where the country can't and doesn't work. but to challenge with it work. there is a difference between them. anarchists want to burn and loot and show where the country can't work. we're trying to make sure it works for everyone. and state grand juries tend to be too compromised with local politics because local prosecutors run for office, and they tend to have to depend on local police for their evidence. the federal government must step in. the federal government must step in like it did in the '60s and

'50s before my time. we have this last hill to climb in the criminal justice system. i believe we can do it. we will not do it with violence but we are not doing it by not questioning thing we see in our own eyes. you build a police state when you're told you can't question anything. many people disagreed with the verdict on o.j. but they had the right to question it even though a jury made a decision. don't we have the right to question grand juries when we're looking at a video or things that don't make sense? the same way others have the right. don't make us looters. make us patriots for saying in a peaceful way, this doesn't make sense. let the federal government come in. joining me now, eric garner's

widow. eric garner's mother, and jonathan moore, attorney for the garner family. thank you all for being here at such a difficult time. >> we have been working together since this tragedy happened, me and your mother-in-law. i saw you the day when you came into my office after riding up, the tears in your eyes. then i saw you gather strength and you and i talked to the attorney general on the phone. and you seemed to somehow start encouraging me. explain how you feel tonight. you haven't talked to anybody. >> i feel now after the verdict, you know, of course i was disappointed, angry, but after talking to eric holder, i feel some type of hope that we still have hope and we still have a fight to fight to get this justice for my husband. because regardless to what he will not die in vain.

you know, he has children. he has grandchildren that miss him a lot. i miss him every single day. i try to keep myself busy but you know i have to stay strong and fight this fight. >> when we talked to eric holder, it was him assuring this that there would be an independent federal investigation. we don't know where it will go. at least we know it will be independent and it will not deal with the local politics. and this is not a young black man, as esaw said, this is a father and a grandfather. he was in his 40s. >> that's right. >> and this is a situation that really begs for a real examination. >> yes. >> i was so disappointed with t the, it just tore me up. i couldn't see how a grand jury

could vote and say that there was no probable cause. what were they looking at? were they looking at the same video that the rest of the world was looking at? >> i'm one that has said the federal government needs to take over these cases. esaw and gwen and i met with the federal government twice on this case because i had no confidence in the staten island grand jury. i said i wouldn't even go to the meeting because i didn't think they would do anything and they didn't. explain why a federal investigation, whether it is ferguson, whether it is cleveland, and i talked to the father of that 12-year-old last night. why is this important now?

>> we've seen over the years that the local prosecutor is so closely insinuated with the police them rely on the police, to make their cases. when the police become the defendants, when the police become the purported criminal, they can't be objective. we've seen that in other cases. and it is playing itself out here. that's why you need the independent review of it. we've called for many years for an independent special prosecutor in new york. a permanent independent special prosecutor who could look at these cases throughout the state. that's fallen on deaf ears. we've called on them to do their own independent investigation. >> let me put up this picture. i want you to look at this. this is his arm. this is the police department's arm around your husband, esaw.

where he can't defend himself. he is down. how can a jury say that shouldn't at least go to trial? there's not a trial jury. we're not saying that he should be held guilty. but how can they say there's nothing probable about going to trial in this? >> the picture speaks for itself. his arm is around his neck. not only before he takes him down but when he is on the ground. and he doesn't remove his arm from his neck. in addition to that, it is not just neck compression that probably killed him. they piled on his back. the medical examiner said two things caused his death. neck compression and chest compression. together those were the cause of his death. so it is not just one officer who we say should be prosecuted here. you should be looking at all the officers. one of the most outrageous things that this prosecutor did in staten island, he gave

immunity to all the other officers on this. >> so all of them but this one. >> and let's be real clear. because i was involved in the abner louima case and the rodney king. excessive force is a civil rights violation and that could be considered excessive force. >> remember the anthony baez case. he was killed by a chokehold in the bronx. the federal government stepped in. >> in new york. >> in new york and at least brought an indictment for assault. that's the most basic charge. simple assault. even a misdemeanor assault. give us something here. s in a whole range of charges they could have considered. the fact that they gave us nothing. >> outrageous. >> let me ask you, as you sit here and you stood last

wednesday night, a week ago tonight you stood on the stage at nash action network with the family of michael brown jr. and this young lady who is the mother with the young man who was killed in the stairwell. kimberly in brooklyn. we're doing funeral friday night. he's not even buried yet. as you stand here, forget me. people know i'm a public figure. forget him. he's a lawyer. as a human being, tell people what it means to you to lose a husband to law enforcement and to watch that. and beyond the politics, what this means. i think people don't get the human side of this. >> it is so lonely. so sad. and then every day, i try to look at tv to keep my mind off

you know, thinking about what's going on and what had happened and everything. but every time i turn the tv on i see that video. for them to come out with this verdict. like they not even seeing what i saw. >> what kind of guy was eric? >> eric -- that's funny you ask me that. eric was the sweetest, for him to be so big and stuff. he was only angry if he drank something. so i used to have a joke that he couldn't drink because he was an angry drunk. that was the only time he would ever tell me no. >> so he had faults. >> of course he. did he wasn't perfect. >> but they're saying your son was there because he is selling lucies. >> that's an reason to kill him. lucies. not even marijuana. >> it's cigarettes. >> he wouldn't have been selling if it wasn't in demand. >> eric garner should be honored

as a family man. he was married for 27 years. he raised five kids. he like many people in this economy -- >> and had grandkids. >> and forced to go into an underground economy. he work hard every day to support his family. >> we're not even justifying the underground economy. i'm saying he was not violent. there was no violence threatened to the police. even when the police are down, he's still choking him 11 times we count on the video he said i can't breathe. so at what point do we have, that the law says there is at least probable cause to go to trial. >> there is no explanation. and for them to say, you know, they're on his back and he's saying he can't breathe. and you didn't let up for not one second. it was like i said, a modern day lynching. they had it out for him. >> let me read you this statement from the officer,

pantaleo. he said i became a police officer to help people and protect those who can't protect themselves. it is never my intention to harm anyone, and i feel very bad about the death of mr. garner. my family and i include him and his family in our prayers and i hope that they will accept my personal could not dole enlss. >> what is your reaction to that? >> they should have asked for our apology while they had him down them should have let him up. they should apologize to him while he was down there. let him up. that would have been the apology. >> the condolences and the remorse should have been when he was on the ground asking to let him breathe. his apology to me now means absolutely nothing. my son is left without his father. my grand kids are left without their grandpa and i'm left without my husband.

somebody i planned on spending the rest of my life with. now i have to be alone and raise the rest of my children and grand children without him. >> and he goes -- >> everything home to his family. he is still feeding them and all that. my husband is six feet under. he can't do nothing for us no more. >> a lot of civil rights leaders coming into town in the morning. we're talking about having a national rally. everybody coming together. what are the next steps legally? >> to try to push for this federal investigation. that's high on our agenda. we'll pursue a civil lawsuit to get justice for eric and his family. but as the president said today, he said something very important. he said, and you've been saying all along. this isn't a local problem, not a new york problem. it is a national problem. we have a national problem here that has to be addressed.

>> well, the attorney general did speak with the mother and i and there is an independent federal investigation. it is a national problem. we're going to washington on the 13th to raise the national issue. of probable cause. all police are not bad. most are not bad. you cannot have a nation where you can't question police action. and you can't question it violently. and i go out and tell people, less protests or protest nonviolently. i'm a minister but i don't stay inside the pulpit. i'm a tv host. i don't stay in the studio. i go out there and talk to the people. it's easy for people to sit up in comfortable studios or big cathedrals and lecture people. it is different when you're on the ground. i'm on the ground and that's 86 tell people, let's do this the right way. and they can call us names. but doug will say that we won't raise the right of americans to ask the questions.

esaw garner, gwynn carr, thank you. the decision raising so many questions about this grand jury and about justice in america. we'll look at the legal issues in this case. why wasn't a chokehold homicide? enough for the grand jury to indict? also the federal case, what can we expect from the justice department civil rights division. we're seeing peaceful protests in new york as people react to the grand jury decision. >> wrong decision. he should have lost his job. >> i care for their lives as well. god forbid if they get caught. live in the same communities that we serve. people here know that our operations have an impact locally. we're using more natural gas vehicles than ever before.

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is that a chokehold? the grand jury voted not to

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back with more. a grand jury has decided not to indict a new york city police officer in the death of eric garn he. on july sfeept, eric garner died after officer daniel pantaleo used a chokehold during an arrest on. august 1, the city's medical examiner ruled the death a homicide. more than two weeks later, on august 19th, the staten island district attorney announced a grand jury would consider

charges. on september 19th, a forensics expert hired by the garner family agreed with the autopsy. on october 7, the garn he family filed a $75 million civil lawsuit against new york city and the nypd. the entire incident was caught on cell phone video. it is clear officer pantaleo used a chokehold to bring eric garner down and the nypd has banned the use of chokeholds. why did the grand jury decide not to bring charges? what evidence did they look at and why didn't they think this was a crime? joining me now, the former prosecutor and msnbc contributor, faith jenkins, and former u.s. attorney kendall coffey. >> the grand jury in this case had to determine there was probable cause to believe that a

crime had been committed. wouldn't that be enough to show probable cause? >> you would think. the video speaks for itself. as they say, pictures are worth a thousand words and that video told the story. here you have a man committing one of the most minor crimes someone can commit in the state of new york which is selling these lucy cigarettes. he is selling cigarettes that aren't taxed. you have someone who is pleading with the police. people say resisting arrest? he was pleading with the police, trying to state his case. he wasn't threatening them. he wasn't cursing at them. he didn't just commit some violent crime. he is pleading with him and they know him. this was someone known to the police in this precinct because he had been arrested for it for a number of times for selling these lucies and then he ends up dead. you look at the video and how that happens. i don't see how you watch that video and come up with any other conclusion that there was excessive force, that that man did not have to be taken down by

that many police officers. in that manner by a practice, a chokehold which has been banned in new york since the 1990s when another police officer used on it a civilian and that person died. >> kendall, you've done a lot of work with grand juries. as a federal prosecutor. what do you think in terms of this video, is it enough to show probable cause of a crime? tell us how this possibly could have gone in front of a grand jury and not establish probable cause. >> sometime you wonder if probable cause is clearly explained. because it is not the concept of guilt or innocence as you've discussed many times on this show. it is simply more probably than not based on the prosecution's own evidence, is there evidence of a crime. this video and some of the circumstances that we know to be undeniable, seem to establish probable cause. we know the chokehold as was

just described is a banned, prohibited practice. in effect this officer knowingly used what amounted to prohibited and excessive force at the very time he began. there are also a group of officers, obviously an unarmed man, and then you add to that the component that he was repeatedly saying he can't breathe. yet the police action continued. this is a very, very tough one to understand. yes, juries at the end of a trial do acquit officers. even in situations like this. but understanding why this grand jury found there was no probable cause to charge him for anything is difficult to understand. >> now, i want to pick up on that point. because let's talk about some of the charges the grand jury could have considered in this case. and again, they're not determining guilt or innocence. only whether there was enough reason to go to trial, to see if one was guilty or innocent of

these charges them could have considered criminally negligent homicide. which would mean the death was caused by reckless and careless actions and punishable by up to four years in prison. reckless endangerment which is knowingly creating an unjustified risk of death and showing a depraved indifference to human life. and is punishable by up to seven years. and second-degree manslaughter which would mean the officer knowingly took reckless actions, and is punishable by up to 15 years. how high is this burden to show probable cause for each of these categories? >> well, it is not high. when you have a banned practice, that means the police have been trained not to use a chokehold. so when this officer did it any way, he is on notice that he is using a dangerous police tactic to take someone down. when he chose to use it any way, you can argue that alone was reckless. and that reckless action

resulted in a man's death. so when you look at it under those circumstances, again, and the low threshold for probable cause, it israel shocking that this officer was not indicted. it is also shocking that his soup visaor was there. six or seven other police officers were there. let's talk about mentality here. >> others came and didn't do anything. >> noted problem using that chokehold in front of his supervisor. no problem using that tactic in front of his other officers. what does that tell you? >> yeah. you, kendall, as a prosecutor, of course we don't know what happens in grand juries because they're secret and this was secret. does anything i've read of possible charges seem something that could not have been established as probable cause based on what we know and based on that video? >> based on what we know, especially the crimes of recklessness seem to be established by the video itself and by the evidence from the

coroner. so that should be a starting point for probable cause. there are a lot of things we don't know. probable cause doesn't require a consideration of everything. it is not the ultimate determination of guilt or innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. that has to be so mystifying. >> that's the point. this is not the trial. >> exactly. >> walk me through quickly. there is an intrinsic relationship between local prosecutors and local police. one of the reasons people like me have said you have to get feds in. explain to people, laymen just watching at home, why there is this feeling that there is a conflict when local prosecutors to have deal with local police. >> there is the appearance of impropriety. as a prosecutor in manhattan i work with nypd officers every

day. that's how we get our cases. >> where as the feds don't do that. >> i've said this earlier today, at this point, the process is not working. at this point. so you have to examine the process. that's why you need special prosecutors to come in when there is a police shooting, or when a police cause the death of another person, you have to bring in special prosecutors. >> thank you both for your time tonight. tonight nbc news confirming the justice department will conduct an independent civil rights investigation. what will it look like? also, how the garner case can and should change police tactics and training. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to.

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what more does america need to see that we have a problem in this country as it relates to

the police and the communities of color. eric garner did not deserve to die. >> new york congressman hakeem jeffreys on what may be the key issue of our time. you don't need to think that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil... and powering the world responsibly is our job.

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♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm i'm not interested in talk. i'm interested in action. i am absolutely committed as president of the united states to making sure that we have a country in which everybody believes in the core principle that we are equal under the law. >> president obama today responding to the grand jury's decision in the eric garner case. talking about the need to make sure everyone has equal protection under the law. the eric garner case, like the michael brown case, is raising serious questions about whether police involved homicides can be handled at the local level.

and tonight, nbc news reports the justice department led by attorney general eric holder will conduct an independent civil rights investigation into garner's death. obviously, there are many potential conflicts of interest when you have local prosecutors overseeing homicide investigations. were local police involved to make sure everyone has confidence in the process, it is time we rethink the role of the federal government in these cases. joining me now, new york congressman hakeem jeffreys and jonlth capehart of the "washington post." thanks for being here. >> thanks, rev. >> is it appropriate for the justice department to investigate eric garner's death? >> absolutely appropriate. the decision by the grand jury not to indict the officer responsible for the homicide of eric garner is a gross this

misjustice. all across the country people should be shocked by the ability of the grand jury to not move forward with a simple charge of manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, reckless endangerment toward human life. so justice delayed, however, will not be justice denied. the department of justice in this particular instance, i am please that had they've made the decision so swiftly after today's developments to move forward with an investigation. i'm confident there will be a full and fair investigation. and hopefully it will result in the presentation of evidence before a grand jury. and officer pantaleo should be forced to stand trial. >> jonathan, you used to live in new york for a long time. but you've covered cases around the country. how do you view this? >> shocking. i mean, this case, the eric garner case, is so elementary because of everything that we know. a chokehold was used, a

chokehold is against nypd regulations, it was all on video time as we're seeing now, it is clear to anyone with eyesight watching what's going on what's happening. we know that the medical examiner, independent, comes back and says that the chokehold contributed to eric garner's death and therefore his death was ruled a homicide. those things right there would, no matter where they are on the political spectrum no, matter what they think about race, no matter what, would look at those things and say, yeah. this police officer is going to stand trial. the fact that he's not going to stand trial, i think, is mystifying. it is enraging. and i think it is going to be something that will lead a lot of people to take a step back and think, what's going on with our criminal justice system. when you look at what's happening be tonight in the larger picture of what happened

in ferguson, what happened in cleveland, what happened in lots of other places over just the last six months. people, i think, would take a step back and wonder what is going on with our criminal justice system. is it indeed fair? when something like this can happen. >> let's dig into that a little deeper. federal stats show the number of justifiable homicides, by police have been rising steadily in recent years. last year there were 461 justifiable homicides by police. that's the highest number in nearly two decades. >> this is an epidemic of police violence all across the country and it is compounded by the fact we have a broken criminal justice system. in case after case after case fails to deliver accountability. that sends a terrible message to law enforcement officers. you can get away with using

excessive force in the criminal justice system, at least at the state level, will not hold you accountability. that's why we need a robust investigation in this case. we also have to take a step back and ask the question. can we ever really receive justice when a state prosecutor is involved? because of the close relationship between state prosecutors and local law enforcement. and programs we need some type of legislation to allow for special independent prosecutors to step in these times of cases to make sure that you can get a full and fair investigation. >> now you mentioned legislation. that goes to you and your colleagues. what role is it to do what you talked about an epidemic? >> well, the congressional black caucus has made it clear we won't allow people in the house and the senate to run away from this problem. we'll run toward it. we need to look at refunding community policing programs that were working.

that we've largely band ond. that has helped strain the relationship between police and the community. we need to really look at outlawing racial profiling, particularly as it relates to law enforcement officers. that's a conversation that attorney general holder began to have in atlanta. and we need to work on that issue as well. and we need some real reporting in terms of the instanlss of the excessive use of force. this occurs every day in america. it results in homicides, unfortunately, in far too many instances. the reason we see so many young people all across the country reacting is because this is their daily reality. as derrek garner said, this ends today. it must end. >> thank you for your time. still ahead, how to change police tactics in this country. can the eric garner case help trans perform how police

interact with the community they serve? right now people are chanting in new york, i can't breathe. good morning everybody. we are about to make more deliveries to more places than anybody on earth. we have the speed. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion

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the wake of this video put new scrutiny on police tactics. police commissioner bill bratton called for a new training aimed at changing the culture of the department. the department's yearly training and the use of force over the 35,000 officers in new york. and today, mayor bill de blasio said the police department is speeding up efforts to outfit police with body cameras. i can't breathe, the final words of eric garner, is still ringing in our ears. >> i can't breathe! i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> once again, police beating up on people. >> joining me now, retired atf agent jim cavanagh and prosecutor paul henderson. thank you both for being here. >> thank you.

>> jim, 11 times eric garner said he couldn't breathe. was this proper police work or was it a crime? >> it's excessive force because you can only use the force necessary to make the arrest. the officer clearly has his arm sunk deep in mr. garner's throat. he is choking him. mr. garn he says he can't breathe. the medical examiner says the chokehold in the chest compressions resulted in his death. if that's not a chokehold, i'm the queen of england. that's a chokehold. you can say it was perfectly said or wasn't mixed martial arts hand positioning or something. but it gets to be ridiculous. it is like someone showing you a picture of a camel and telling you it's a horse. that's a chokehold. the question is, is it excessive force? we know it is against the nypd policy because it results in death. so it clearly is excessive force. and the civil rights division at

the department has to step up. look at this closely. if it is excessive force, if they see it to get a warrant and bring a civil rights prosecution. >> paul, it violated the department of the police department with a chokehold. it violated the excessive force and it clearly seem to be at least probable cause to go forward. and where is the humanity? how does a human being hear somebody say 11 times, i can't breathe, and you don't stop? when does your humanity kick in? if the police manual book didn't kick in, if the law didn't kick in, where's the humanity? of four or five other policemen standing around hearing the man say i i can't breathe. >> you're all the argument that's presumably were made within that grand jury. and then if you xounld that with the information from the medical examiner. you have just made the argument

that should have been presented to the grand jury. >> we don't know if it was presented. >> we don't know. this is part of the problem associated. to use grand jury which is by definition a tool of the prosecution. what you're hearing from these communities of color is that they feel like they do not see, and we do not hear the aggressive advocacy associated with prosecution with their communities and our own communities, and it is a different standard when it is applied at least when there is the potential of misconduct with police action involving african-american men. as you have just said, you have made the argument that should have been presented, that we had not reviewed because the entire process is secretive. we have seen it again and again and it call for further action.

i mentioned the body cameras. here wave video. what else can be done? >> we need some courageous prosecutors. >> or independent. >> and say there's probable cause. that doesn't mean the trial will result in a conviction. it means there will be a contest with advocates on both sides for the officer and for mr. garner, for the prosecution. there will be a fight, a court, a trial. a cross-examination. evidence presented. a judge ruling on it. that's what the public is asking for. and probable cause is such a low standard. every single arrest in the country by every officer, city, county, state and federal, is based on the premise of probable cause or a warrant sworn out with probable cause. every single arrest. and every single search. that's from the constitution. where the words probable cause appears. it is a very low bar. it is unbelievable that it can't be achieved in a case where there's video. and the force really is excessive, given that there are

six officers standing there. mr. garner is not armed. his resistance is passive at best. he is not wanting to be handcuffed. certainly he is passively resisting with no weapon. with six officers there to choke him like that. you know, i think the department has to really step up. unfortunately, i spent almost four decades trying to slow down cops and speed up prosecutors and it is a hard thing to do. i would hope the department would really look at this, the president, the attorney general and say we need to do something. we need to move. lee iacocca said the speed of the ball is the speed of the team. there's no reason to draw it out. >> paul, the commissioner said that they would be retraining the mayor talked about cameras. we all met with the president the other day. he is talking about some concrete things in terms of cameras. but it also is in the opinion of

many of us in dealing with how prosecutors on a local level deal with local police and feel conflicted and compromised. in the grand jury room, and you have conducted grand juries, we don't know what happens. that's up to the prosecutor and there is no adversarial representation there. >> it is secretive by nature. even if we have the cram cameras, we had video cams here. the real issue when you get down to it thourks aggressive advocacy is defined by the prosecution in that room. and i think this raises the flag about inclusion. we need more communities of color on the team of prosecution, at the table, making decisions. then it speaks to the lack of transparency. it speaks to inclusion in the decision making process associated with our criminal justice system.

and that's why we're having so many challenges and so many problems with communities, specifically the communities of color that do not trust the system or feel as though the system works against them when they are in fact victims, or could be perceived as the victims by the law. >> you worked law enforcement over 40 years. you know police. what will it take for a lot of americans who don't live in these communities, that these questions are raised. how do they begin to understand people that paul just described that distrust police. that is absolutely beyond their skoem of even imagining how you can't trust. what will show them why there is such outrage and anger from ferguson to staten island to cleveland. it is the history and knowing

that we can elaborate on that. it is to put your loved one, your son, your brother as would be in mr. garn he's position who committed some minor offense. very, very minor offense. and winds up dead from a chokehold. how would you feel about that? and then there would be no even arrest or prosecution at all that would just be okay. and i think that's what got communities upset. but we also, you brought it up. talked about with it paul, too. the tactics of policing. we can do so much better. if we look the a all these cases. we see the tactics from cleveland with the 12-year-old boy to dayton with the young man shot in the walmart. just rushing in and it is too fast. there needs to be a little more circumstance up specs. a little more negotiation and maneuvering. >> a lot more work to do. we're going to get it double. we must. thank you both for your time.

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