labelle and shelly wright. we did our own tree lighting. i lit the staff yesterday. at our party. here are some of the little -- yeah, look at these smiling happy faces. anyway we had such a good time. thank you, gang. merry christmas to all of you. that's going to do it for "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ couldn't help but immediately think what it would mean to me to lose dante. life couldn't mean the same thereafter and i could feel how it will never be whole again, thing will never be whole again for mr. garner. i want everybody to listen to what ben garner and what eric garner's son said well. if you want to dig any guy the life of eric garner you will do so through peaceful protest. you'll work relentlessly for change.

you will not sully his name with violence or vandalism. that doesn't bring us closer to a better community. the only thing that's ever worked is peaceful protest, nonviolent social activism is the only thing that's ever worked. >> good morning. it is thursday, december 4th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have the chairman of deutsche incorporated and the host of msnbc's politics nation and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton along with willie, joe and me on a really, really big morning. >> i got to start by showing the front of the "daily news." disturbing photo, and what protesters were peacefully chanting last night all across new york city. i'll put it up here.

"we can't breathe," and mika, you know, last night all across the city, obviously, people responding peacefully to the tragedy that unfolded in staten island. >> and the decision not to indict. >> the decision not to indict. let's get to the news and then let's talk to reverend al sharpton with us and donny deutsch and willie. >> widespread protests unfolded in new york city after a grand jury's decision not to charge a white police officer in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man. as joe just mentioned the front page of the "new york daily news" reads quote "we can't breathe" paraphrasing eric garner's final words before he collapsed. thousands of protesters took to the streets of new york city, tying up traffic for hours, the brooklyn bridge, lincoln tunnel and west side highway all shut down by demonstrations. here at rockefeller center there were heated confrontations

between protesters and police. they chanted, justice no tree during the annual tree lighting ceremony. 30 people were arrested across the city. police say garner, a 43-year-old father of six tried to resist aarrest for allegedly selling loose cigarettes in staten island which garner denied. cell phone video shows officer daniel pantaleo choking him and tackling him and the medical examiner ruled the death a homicide. garner's widow and mother said they are shocked the grand jury didn't seek charges against the officer. >> he should be here celebrating christmas and thanksgiving and everything else with his children and his grandchildren. and he can't. why? because a cop did wrong. somebody that get paid to do right did wrong and he's not held accountable for it. >> how could we put our trust in the justice system when they fail us like this? they didn't only fail me, they

failed many of us, and if we don't take care of this they may fail you in the future. >> officer pantaleo told the grand jury he was trying use a wrestling move because chokeholds are not allowed that he learned in the police academy not a chokehold. he also says garner's ability to speak suggested he was in fact able to breathe. he was saying he couldn't breathe. in a statement pantaleo said in part quote it is not my intention to harm anyone and i feel very bad about the death of mr. garner. my family and i include him and his family in our prayers and i hope that they will accept my personal condolences for their loss. >> if you look at the video, the statement doesn't wash. he said he immediately got off the chokehold as fast as he could. he continued to choking him while he was on the ground. this is on video. we have been talking about ferguson. been debating about ferguson.

just like trayvon was debated. there's no debate. this was a homicide. it was on video. there was a chokehold. been banned by the police department. there's no indictment. there are a lot of people, a lot of people who disagreed with me on trayvon, agreed with me on ferguson that are waking up this morning going what the hell happened on staten island? this seems obvious. >> you know, when we cover these stories we want to be fair so i went back and i watched the entire video last night, i watched it again this morning to make sure you're not missing anything. this is a guy, eric garner, has his hands in the air. he's saying please, officer stop. please officer stop. leave me alone. let's go back and say he was selling loose cigarettes. >> selling cigarettes. a man is dead today because he was selling loose cigarettes. >> so if you take the cop at his word and say eric garner was

resisting arrest and you have to restrain him somehow if that's what they felt needed to be done. you got him to the ground now. you can take your hand off his head. >> first of all, he kept him in the chokehold and then when he let him out of the chokehold then he was shoving his face into the cement. they were still saying, donny, i can't breathe. we obviously -- we went back and forth on ferguson. there's a lot of disputes in ferguson. and that's why there's the debate there is. there aren't any disputes on what happened. this is outrageous. >> trayvon martin was killed because he was a black man. michael brown, he was a guy going after a cop. this is a tragedy no matter how you look at it. the tape speaks for itself. the one thing and i'm so proud of new yorkers the way they performed last night.

that's the way you do it. the one thing that we have to remember, and there's nothing but a great tragedy there is that, is that and al i want to ask your opinion about this. in america right now in operating rooms across this country there's a doctor who has just done a malpractice. doesn't mean every doctor is bad. the majority, the orwhverwhelmi of police officers do their job right and not out to hurt people. we have to remember that as well. having said this is a tragedy of epic proportions and there's no indictment. >> reverend al, if i could just ask the question that you asked, joe, what the hell happened in staten island? i'll answer it. eric garner was killed by police. >> that's the problem. i think the problem is that we

cannot depend on impartiality with local state prosecution on police. there has to be an outside mechanism. one of the reasons civil rights leaders are meeting this morning talking about marching in washington next saturday the 13th is to say the justice department must take it out of the local fwgrand jury realm. >> they opened an investigation. because grand juries basically only get what the local prosecutor gives them. and they are elected. they have to deal with police joins. they have to deal with the police on a day-to-day basis for their evidence. >> i don't want to get people watching vertigo. obviously we agreed on trayvon, talked a lot about that. disagreed on ferguson. >> i might say we disagreed -- i disagreed kaulgs michael brown a criminal. never been arrested for anything.

never did time. you called him a criminal. >> let's not debate this this morning. let's talk about eric garner. >> what i'm saying -- we all agree that the grand jury is supposed to be there to say is there probable cause. grand jury does not try a crime. this is probable cause. with this tape you're going to say there's no probable cause to go to trial. >> here's another structural problem and what i was going say we disagree but even though we disagree we did it respectfully. we agree more than disagree. even through all of that you can look at the grand jury, regardless of what side you're on. see there's a structural problem. because time and time again prosecutors want an indictment in the grand jury system have as their allies cops. so there's -- and, again, it's disproportionately against blacks but also the same thing would happen against whites, hispanics, et cetera, et cetera, that's the first thing.

the second thing is that a grand jury, the "new york times" said this, is going to give a police officer more times than not the benefit of the doubt. especially if the prosecutor is more or less on the cops' side. >> i agree. and one thing i do agree with you about is it doesn't make all cops bad or even most cops. but what we got to do is have a mechanism where if you have a bad cop or just a questionable cop, it can be dealt with fairly and objectively. for a grand jury to not operate saying there's probable cause let's go to trial and deal with this openly i think that's what poisons the system. >> mika, so many people waking up this morning, again, asking what the hell happened in staten island. imagine if you're a 16, 17, 18-year-old, you know, black man, or if you're the mother, what happened yesterday

reinforces all of the fears, all of the beliefs of criminal justice system that has been said repeatedly here operates differently for black americans than white americans. >> i haven't met one person since this decision came down that doesn't feel it was completely wrong, that this is the one that was cut and dry. this is the one that would have gone through to an indictment. until i saw peter king on the air which was disturbing. it's his opinion. and we need to allow all opinions in. i just haven't seen that opinion anywhere. >> just to show you how stacked it is in the favor of cops there's been 160,000 cases brought in front of grand juries since 2010. 99% of the time they get an indictment. in the last two times they didn't. to al's point you just have to show probable cause and basically the prosecutors in this case did not even cross-examine the police officer, they basically brought both sides to the table which

prosecutors never do in any case. so they are not going to indict cops. >> let's talk about new york for a second because i was really, i was really impressed with the people that were protesting last night. yes, people got angry for good reason. but for the most part, barnacle went out in the crowd which really should be, you know, should be in his nursing home by that time of the night. he said it was an inviting crowd. a lot of children there. >> children, all the way to seniors. and i think that -- by the way -- >> they joined us. i saw signs last night. obviously i have problems with the slogan coming out of ferguson. "i can't breathe." that's a pretty powerful message. and this stops today. >> the one point that i think you made, and i think it bears

repeating, is that when the officer tells the grand jury unchallenged as donny said well i got off as quick as i could and the fact he said "i can't breathe" means he can breathe. he said it 11 times. 11 times. you got off as quickly as you could? >> i can't breathe. >> joe you talked about new york. i really think, you know, in ferguson we saw a city that officials were really out of tune with the neighborhood and i think mayor de blasio was a real leader yesterday. he spoke from the heart, no notes. he spoke with his own personal connection to it. i think one of the reasons why we didn't see violence is because new york is a great city. >> also there's mechanisms, the mayor and others but there's moments for months have been on this. we had about 12,000 people marching in staten island and people said there was going to be a riot and there was nothing

all the way through this. and i think that when you have organized bodies that are there saying wait a minute we want to get change not just -- >> we have problems. >> but we want to solve the problem. we're connected to the families that are suffering. these are not activists looking for political chip they want to see real change and when you have that people behave in a way that they don't want to let that family down. >> and community policing, you have a reservoir of trust -- again, that sometimes they screw up, sometimes they make terrible mistakes. but, there's not the frustration in ferguson where 95% of the police officers are white and a community that's 70% black. >> certainly better than ferguson, still needs improvement. better than it is there. they had protests coming up broadway where i live, irwalked out into those protests and walked the other way from apartment building to west side highway which was shut down going southbound and the cars were sitting there.

it was by and large peaceful. one other thing that's worth pointing out, we talked through trayvon and ferguson how immediately everybody ran to their ideological corners and it became a political fight. on this one last night if you look at social media or talked to friends or watched tv it was almost unanimous. you know, the farthest right conservatives and farthest left said come on man. >> eric holder, justice department, president obama will have wide latitude. in ferguson there's so many questions. it's two sides that are competing against each other. here it's an open and shut case. and i can't believe the federal government doesn't move here. >> here's the point which is why we're going to washington, because the problem that you have, joe, is you have ferguson, you have staten island, you have the 12-year-old in cleveland, you have the young man in the

houses in brooklyn shot in the stairwell all within 90 days. so it requires the federal government to say wait a minute, with all of this happening we got to address policing. it's one after another. when i got a call from the grandfather in ferguson we were already in the middle of the garner case that just happened. >> i can stop for just one second. i'm glad you said that. because i catch a lot of crap from conservatives for being your friend. and for saying you're my friend. and even when we disagree like we have this past week we always talk respectfully to each other. i'll turn the camera and say this al sharpton doesn't go out looking for these people like -- it's not like a trial lawyer, the families call him and ask him to come. it happened in ferguson, it happened in staten island, and i just wanted to say that because -- >> you have organizations that have this. >> i hear the same story over

and over again. you're like a trial lawyer that's advertising, it's not the case. i know this weekend -- >> we get nothing from this. >> you get a call from families themselves and there's a lot of other stuff you do that you don't talk about that this, this happens because families pick up the phone and they call you because they need help. >> let me say this, you catch flack from being my friend and vice versa and we disagree and you've been in congress, but my thing is -- >> willie that was -- >> america can see that you and i can say i really disagree on this but i come together on this. that's what makes the country work. no one is out there trying to destroy the country. there's a difference between

anarchism and activists. activists want to make the system work for everybody. there's a difference in the conservative and those that are a confederate. conservatives say my view of government. confederates say i want you to shut up do what i say no question. i think that you and i have had sat on both sides of this. wait a minute let's have a mature adult conversation. >> this is the thing that bill clinton always understood there's always a vote tomorrow. i may even vote to impeach you today but tomorrow we're going to be fighting together for long term health care and the next day. and that's the thing that too many of they people like you said, willie, they are on opposite sides. they don't realize that tomorrow there's another fight. and you want as many people on your side as possible in that fight and i think this is a really, i think this is actually a unifying case that will, i think make a difference in the

long run. >> i hope i want does. one other thing i'll say is the police cameras that we've been talking about. here we had it on camera and still get an indictment. it's a reminder police cameras will help but not a silver bullet. >> here's the thing. the cop may have said even though he was being recorded and i talked about this in august the day after, i don't think he knew he was being recorded. if he knew he a body camera on him -- see it's not just getting the images it's the chilling effect for bad cops as i've said repeatedly. good cops have nothing to worry about and there's a chilling effect on bad cops. if i'm going like this and i know a chokehold has been banned by the nypd and this guy is saying i can't breathe, i'm thinking, wait a second, they are pick being all of this up. and, you know, i'm patting him on the back. that i think for me even as much as getting the video the chilling effect on bad cops. >> and bad politics.

>> bad policy. >> the cameras will work against bad criminals also. it will work on both sides. that's the good news. to your guys point the silver lining in this case is this will be the case that changes because there aren't the two sides. >> i think we've all seen and you brought it up at the very beginning, there is a real structural problem with the grand jury system in this country and when it comes to trying to analyze what police officers did and this case is just a slam dunk. >> i think mika hit it on the head. got to deal with policy. got to deal with structural change. it's national. not a new york problem not a ferguson problem. it's happening all over and this is the moment that we got to say we're going to structurally repair a broken system in terms of how we do it. >> would eric garner have died, killed at the hands of police if they had gone after him for loose cigarettes and had to take him down?

>> no. we talked about stop-and-frisk. dealt with policies of broken window where i debated and got attacked in debating that. you got to deal with policies to. you got to deal with what structure to deal with the policies. >> reverend sharpton thank you very much. >> thank you. >> good luck out there. >> thank you. >> i just want to say that joe -- that's the love. >> it's because reverend sharpton dresses well and you don't. >> all right. >> there's a video here this morning. >> again -- >> reverend al, thank you. >> you think it's a jewish thing. there's a lot of jewish friends on the upper west side that are ashamed that you're wearing that. >> all right. >> i'm going to leave well enough alone. >> thank you reverend al. still ahead on morning joe

congressman gregory meeks and congresswoman kathy mcmorris rodgers and keith ellison. and a stand off between cher and the governor. we'll be right back.

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♪ time now to take a look at the morning papers at 26 past the hour. "the guardian" an al qaeda affiliate in yemen is threatening to kill an american hostage after last weeks failed rescue attempt. luke summers a photojournalist was abducted last year. in a newly released militant video the 33-year-old pleads for help. several militants were killed in the mission to rescue somers. but he had already been moved to another location when the commandos arrived. >> the hartford current the town of newtown, connecticut now tones property once belonging to sandy hook shooter adam lanza and his mother. in a meeting wednesday the town's legislative council approved the acquisition. still one clear what will happen to the property.

some residents said they would like to see the house torn down. "wall street journal" a multimillion class action lawsuit said apple secretly deleted songs off of people's iphones who downloaded songs from competing servings. they would intentionally display an error message when they sync an song to their itunes app. apple says it was a necessary security measure. >> it keeps getting worse dealing with itunes. there's so many things i try to do when you try to move it over or move it over. it's not compatible with everything and they could have gotten away with this five years but now screw it. i'll use rhapsody. apple is a pain to deal with. they are out thinking

themselves. they think they are living in a different era. by taking itunes so hard to take along, they are just hurting themselves. >> it's strategic to lock you into the apple devices and software. the "new york daily news" jimmy fallon and his wife nancy welcomed their second daughter into the world. last year the couple became proud patience to their first child winnie rose. congratulations to jimmy and nancy. >> "usa today" debate over animal rights has music legend cher taking odds against governor braxton. first she took on chris christie that would have banned crates for pig farms. cher called christie a bully and

said he can forget about becoming president. governor braxton chimed in mocking hollywood's knowledge of pig production. are we doing this? >> this is real. >> that sparked another tweet from cher who made a reference to two-legged pigs. okay. while linking a page to humane society. coming up seeking justice at a time when law enforcement and their communities are not on the same page. congressman gregory meeks joins the conversation next on "morning joe." [ hoof beats ] i wish... please, please, please, please, please. [ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. expanded minuteclinic, for walk-in medical care. and created programs that encourage people

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♪ time now for the must read opinion pages where we get to u gene robinson his headline the eric garner case sickening outcome. also joining us we have congressman gregory meeks of new york and john mecham is here along with mike barnacle. i want to start by showing you all congressman peter king because he's the one person i've seen along the way who has a differing opinion about this. have you all met anybody else or heard any other voices that you agree with the decision >> i have not.

>> i have not. >> i got a lot of conservatives emailing me. >> okay. i want to play this for your all. take a look. >> you have a 350 pound person who is resisting arrest, the police are trying to bring him down as quickly as possible. if he had not had asthma and a heart condition and was so obese most definitely he would not have died from this. the police had no reason know he was in serious condition. i know people are saying that he said 11 times or seven times i can't breathe. the fact is if you can't breathe you can't talk. >> mike barnacle. >> peter king is flat out wrong in that observation about what happened. granted, you know, he was obese. he did have a heart condition. the tape that everyone has seen is so vivid. we all know that. everyone has seen that tape now chos. but the actual tape itself is 14 minutes long. there was a 14 minute long

conversation that went on between eric garner and the police who were assembled loosely around him. there was no threat whatsoever. >> none whatsoever. >> from eric garner. none. there was only towards the end of his life as it turned out a pleading with his hand up, just leave me alone. something that new yorkers say millions of times a day really, just leave me alone. so peter king is just flat out wrong. >> he wasn't resisting arrest. and in the column today, he's got it right. the justice system was indicted on staten island and look at that. 11 times. 11 times he said "i can't breathe." "i can't breathe." i'll tell you -- well -- >> i would suggest peter king rethink that and maybe come out with a different statement. congressman meeks, your reaction to everything, but specifically to your fellow congressman's comments. >> well, the statement that he's

just flat wrong is right. back to who you believe when you look at that tape. i'm especially concerned about what took place in that grand jury room. i'm a former prosecutor. and i month that generally when you go into the grand jury room you present the evidence that shows that there's probable cause. and generally if there's a defendant who is testifying you want to make sure you cross-examine him thoroughly because what you're also doing is making a record so that you can utilize that record and hold him when you go to trial. and you ask for an indictment when you're done. and so the big question to me is, because i can't see how this jury got this wrong is what were the charges? what were the instructions that the prosecutor gave to the jury when they made the decision? because it's not like you can instruct what we call a charge, a case in or charge a case out

and i hope that eric holder looks at what took place in that grand jury room. >> they will be doing that. my question to you given your expertise what could have been the instructions. what could have gone in there? what are the potential other parts of the story that we don't, we don't see? >> well, you know, i can't imagine other than the d. a.not letting them know all they have to determine is not guilt or innocence but probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and that the individual accused committed the crime. the tape says that. also shows that the procedure of using chokehold is illegal and so clearly that was out of bounds so to me that in and of itself is reason for a prosecutor to say you should come back and ask them, come back with an indictment. >> what i don't understand is that the officer's testimony doesn't square up with what's on the video.

that's absolutely right. >> saying that the second he got into the ground, saying he couldn't breathe, that's just not the case. he continued with the chokehold. shoved his face in the cement. and you can spin it anyway you want to spin it in front of the grand jury, but this video speaks for itself. but the d. a.is not supposed to spin it. >> the d. a.is supposed to go hard and saying in cross-examine him and defend it and saying it does not match up. then utilize that record at trial to show inconsistencies. >> you know, congressman, you know, because you've done the job, that the d. a.depends on good relations with cops to be able to indict other people, to get prosecutions for testimony and maybe we're talking to al earlier, al sharpton earlier today, maybe there's just a structural deficiencies that doesn't really allow a tough

cross-examination of law enforcement officers because of the way the entire system is set up. >> well, then, again, i hope that the practice and pattern and investigation that the federal government is going to do will reveal that and will talk about that and clearly if the d. a. feels he does not have it in him to go to prosecute these cases he should recuse himself and be the one asking for a special prosecutor to come in. i'm really concerned because, you know, there are other cases that may be lower level cases that won't receive this kind of publicity if in fact you're letting somebody off. there needs a complete investigation in my estimation both of the prosecutors in ferguson and in new york to find out what took place if there were any irregularities if the jury was charged incorrectly and i would ask and when we meet with and talk with eric holder that that has to be a part of the overall criminal justice

investigation that takes place in this matter. >> i think the one possible gray area is in policy and whether it took all of those cops to go after one guy for loose cigarettes. and if that's what they are hired to do and told what to do, i think they need to look at the policy. here's what eugene robinson writes in the "the washington post." the eric garner case sicken judging outcome. there should have been an indictment in the ferguson case in my view but at least the events that led to michael brown's killing were in dispute. garner's homicide was captured on video this time. there were literally millions of eyewitnesses. somebody tell me how many does it take, is there any number that would suffice or is this whole equal justice before the law thing just a cruel joke? african-american men are being taught a lesson about how this society ovals or deovals our lives? identify always said the notion that racism is a thing of the past was absurd. now tragically you see why.

wow. >> that's absolutely correct. i think that this is an american problem. in new york i think we're more fortunate than other cities because our mayor gets it, he understands it, he had to talk to his son every day and so he's going to make sure that the police commissioner, we look at retraining as you said, mika is tremendously important and that has to happen, the president has said he's putting efforts to make sure police forces are retrained and do a practice and pattern investigation, all of that is tremendously important. but we got to look and what i am happy about is i think that someone mentioned it earlier in the show that when you look at the demonstrators that were on the street aft night in new york city it was from every racial background, different ethnicities, different rogers and so people coming together. that's what needs to happen that people are coming together to say this is our country and we don't want to look like human rights violations are taking place here as they take place in other places. that's what's really important.

we need to come together and that's how we correct this bad policy and bad decision that's coming out. >> that's what happened last night. it was inspiring. >> it was. i'll say we were talking about a terrible moment for the cop. but the police conducted themselves well. i was out in the streets last night watching this happen. nobody with tanks or army gear. they were moving the protesters along. >> last night, i followed the dproud columbus circle up to west 72nd street. the crowd, i mentioned this to you earlier, was truly inclusive. young kids, teenagers, white, black, puerto rican. they were actually an inviting crowd. you were attracted to the crowd because they were there, they were chanting but peaceful. and the police were terrific last night in protecting the crowd and moving the crowd along. >> not inciting them.

>> and also that when the new york delegation immediate i want to compliment them who also wasn't just members of the african-american members of congress who spoke out against this decision they came out also and that's us standing together to say we got make sure justice is had in this case. >> john mecham. >> in contrast to new york the lighting of the christmas tree. >> strange. i was flipping from two channels. >> i was walking through midtown and you had young families here for tree and you had as mike says pretty peaceful but passionate protest. so you had this -- it was if you had to have a split screen in america which we do, it was a lot better than the ferguson one. >> absolutely. >> where you had the president and the tear gas. >> congressman gregory meeks thank you very much. still ahead 17 states are now suing the president over his executive order on immigration. harvard law professor is our

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♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the white house. 17 states led by texas are now suing the president over his executive action that would allow as many as 5 million undocumented immigrants stay in the united states. joining us now from watertown, massachusetts harvard law professor lawrence tribe. >> i flinch every time i see his name. i had to read his books in law school. professor thank you so much for being with us. >> my pleasure. >> so, if you had to argue for

let's say the state of texas, i know it's not your position but if you had to make a constitutional argument for the state of texas that against the supreme court that the president overstepped his bounds, what precedent would you depend on to make that point? >> the only thing that they can try to rely on is a case involving massachusetts when the state of massachusetts sudden the epa because the epa would not even consider imposing rules to limit greenhouse gases. but in that case four conservative justices said that massachusetts did not have any right to sue, and the majority said it had a right to sue only because congress had passed a specific statute giving procedural rights to the state. so for 90 years the law has been clear ever since a case in 1923 called massachusetts versus

mellon, the law has been clear that states generally can't sue the federal government. and you remember the arizona case that sb-1070 show me your papers. in that case even the chief justice and justice kennedy joined some of the more liberal members of the court to say that the president's exercise of discretion not to deport some people or to delay their deportation trumps a decision by the state to protect itself. i would have a hard time if i were representing texas. >> very quickly because we want to move on to ask you about grand juries and what's been unfolding in new york over the past few hours. but very quickly, do you have any questions the robert court will uphold the president's executive action >> not really. it's very clear. congress has laid down guidelines, it's even said that when someone's deportation is

deferred they can apply for a work permit. the president is following the guidelines of congress saying that you don't break up families first. you get rid of the felons first. >> tell me -- let's move to eric garner case and obviously both in ferguson and now in staten island, a lot of concerns about the process, about the legal process, about the grand jury process. what's gone wrong? what went wrong on staten island? >> you know, it's sickening. i've seen that tape as you have. it's just unambiguous jourks the chokehold was illegal. it was obviously unnecessary. the guy says 11 times i can't breathe. he was not resisting arrest. so that if the process had worked the way it's supposed to work there would at least have been an indictment and then a trial. so clearly eric holder and the u.s. justice department have their work cut-out for them. they have to figure out why all these police departments and

even really a great police department like new york have first of all violated their own rules, they've gone after young black men and older black men in a way that they don't seem to go after whites. and the grand jury system allows it to get covered up. i think this is a systemic nationwide problem and it's a real wake up call. it's terrible to have this stuff happen but at least now the country has to confront it. >> lawrence tribe, thank you very much. coming up, we're counting down to mankind's next giant leap. stay with us. good morning everybody. we are about to make more deliveries to more places than anybody on earth. we have the speed. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion successful deliveries last year.

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we're grieving again over the loss of eric garner who was a father, a husband, a son, a good man, man who should be with us and isn't. the mayor of new york city coming as close as he can to giving his opinion about what happened yesterday. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle and donny deutsch are still with us and joining the conversation, political reporter for "the washington post." good to have you on board. let's start with the big story of the day, the week, the month, the year. widespread protests unfolded in new york city after a grand jury's decision not to charge a white police officer in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man.

as joe mentioned earlier in the show the front page of the "new york daily news" reads quote we can't breathe. paraphrasing eric garner's final words before he collapsed. thousands of protesters took to the streets of new york city last night, tying up traffic for hours. the brooklyn bridge, lincoln tunnel, west side highway shut down by demonstrators. here at rockefeller center there were heated confrontations between protesters and police. they chanted no justice no tree during theual tree lighting ceremony here at 30 rock 30 people were arrested across the city. police say garage ear 43-year-old father of six tried to resist arrest as you cannot see here. for allegedly selling loose cigarettes in staten island which garner denied. cell phone video showed officer daniel pantaleo choking him and tackling him and the medical examiner ruled the death a homicide. officer pantaleo told the grand jury he was trying to use a wrestling move he learn in the

police academy not a chokehold. he also said garner's ability to speak suggested he was actually in fact able to breathe and he put out a statement saying he's very sad about this. >> what do you think, mika? >> i think that -- i haven't heard the one person except for one congressman who doesn't disagree with what yesterday. my daughter and i sat glued to the television last night. i was worried. i was so proud of new york. and i also think that, you know, a lot of people say i don't give my opinion, i don't stand up enough. i will here. i think it was wrong. there's more kids in my white town and your white town with weed in their pockets and more problems that they pose to society than a guy selling a couple of cigarettes who was killed by police and i don't know that cop killed him. i think the policy may have. >> it was ruled -- >> i don't think five guys need to take down an innocent, a helpless quite frankly

african-american man for a couple of cigarettes. >> this is what's so stunning. willie, it was ruled -- this was ruled a homicide by the medical examiner. >> he was killed by police. >> he was killed by a chokehold in part by a chokehold that was banned by the nypd. this one is all on tape. wef we have been debating ferguson what happened, what didn't happen. there's no debate here, willie. this was on tape. and there's not even an indictment. and, again, we must remind you like we did when the ferguson decision came out that the standard is extraordinarily low to get an indictment. prosecutors almost always get indictments. i am absolutely baffled as to

how the prosecutor in staten island could not get an indictment in this case. to go to trial. the prosecutor should be ashamed and should resign this morning. if you can get an indictment in this case, you're not smart enough to be a member of the new york bar. >> as everybody has learned over the last several weeks and months an indictment you're just looking for probable cause. is there enough here to send to it trial. it possible there's a crime here? we got a videotape. it makes you wonder what happened inside that grand jury room. we were talking about what could have planted the seeds of doubt in a grand juror's moynihan. if they read the facts, saw the tape, heard the medical examiner. >> you can have doubt. >> that's all out in front of you, do you think there's a reason for this to go to trial. mike pointed something out and i looked it up as well. it doesn't have to be unanimous. you don't have to get the entire

grand jury to go along. if there were a handful of people in that room who didn't think there was probable cause this could have stopped this from going to trial. >> joe, you said the prosecutor count get an indictment. didn't want an indictment. the prosecutor presents both sides. when have you seen the prosecutor present other than their own side in the case. the thing that will change as a result of this, we're a nation of checks and balances. that's what makes our system works. this is one of the few last places where there's no checks and balances between police and the judicial system. >> it shows -- >> there are no checks and balances. >> i think there are checks and balances. >> not with grand jurors. >> the problem is grand juries. it's so arbitrary. you give the prosecutor so much discretion that the prosecutor can indict he or she wants to indict and let pass who he or she wants to pass. >> so, i want to get your gut. dan, can you show the video and we'll look at it from a

different point of view. because when you look at the video of eric garner being surrounded by police, can we put it up, please? so here's what i see when i looked at this, i don't know, 50 times maybe. i see proils rolicies run amost clear. all these different things that cops have to go after people in these small towns. >> five cops around one guy for selling loose cigarettes. he has his hands up. >> does this need to happen for a guy selling loose cigarettes? do they have to bring him down to the ground? and by the way, is there any indication in this video that this guy died for any other reason but what is happening right here? >> right. that's what he says. when he's confronted bipartisan these police officers who he knows there's this argument about community policing and these police officers should know the people that they are

policing, well apparently these police officers knew this guy fairly well. he is very frustrated that he's been a target of these officers repeatedly. you hear the guy on the camera at pun point saying eric garner was trying to break up a fight. the police officers there seemed to suggest that they saw him selling what are called loosies, cigarettes. this is something in the underground economy, goes on pretty frequently in new york and as you know in new york the taxes on cigarettes are incredibly high and there's a whole industry around that so there you have those police officers going after him in a way that i think most americans see as excessive. here's a guy who doesn't -- who isn't posing any real immediate harm. >> is that a cop killing a man or is it a policy? >> you know, it's probably a combination of both and this is something that rand paul talked about yesterday when he was

talking to chris matthews on "hardball." he talked about the cigarette taxes as playing a role in this and you mentioned the broken windows theory this idea that every small crime has to be addressed aggressively. and so i think you do see that and now you have mayor bill de blasio who ran and won on this idea of rolling back some of these policies particularly stop-and-frisk coming out and saying listen we really got to look at the way these things have played out in people's lives, in ways there's this deep distrust not only among african-americans but latinos and some white americans as well. you saw a real cross cultural coalition of folks protesting. >> mike you were talking about that last night. you and willie both out talking about the people protesting, mayor de blasio calling for calm. willie you were saying at the end of al sharpton's show he was

very intense, telling people -- >> reverend sharpton had an interview with eric garner's widow and mother together on the set and they had a compelling interview at the end. al sharpton turned to the camera and implord to the protesters to be peaceful, to get the message out, don't destroy businesses, don't resort to violence. that's never the path. cooler heads, mike you were occupant there last night to, prevailed on both side. police officers conducted themselves well too. >> i followed the protest for about 12 blocks. it was truly an impressive inclusive crowd. the ages ranged from young children 10 years of age, to elderly people like myself. >> that's a nice way of putting it. >> it was an inviting crowd as i said earlier. the crowd was so spontaneous and so into what had happened. but also on the other hand the police were terrific. i mean they stood back.

they protected the protesters, the crowds from traffic. they stopped traffic. they were not in the face of the crowd. >> to my point, my grandfather was a police officer, and your perspective, you've covered the streets for a long, long time. the crime has never been lower in new york city and we got to be careful we don't swing the pendulum too far. the overwhelming majority of police officers do their job, they do it right. they are not necessarily seeing color the way we kind of just always black and white in here. we got to be careful not to paint that brush. >> there's no doubt about that, donny. there's absolutely no doubt about that. but there's also no doubt that once you leave a police department like new york or philadelphia or even boston to some extent, police departments have to get to the point where they reflect more the community that they serve. you look at the size of police cars and i want says to protect and to serve. basically policing is a service

industry. they work for us. that stems have gotten out of hand. >> good way of putting it. >> in some cities. we have to get back to the notion they work for us, they should reflect the community they serve far more than they do in many instances. not new york city. new york city for my money is still the finest police department in the world. >> we also heard about ran paul who made some news yesterday. let's run the clip of ran paul when he was talking about what mia had brought up. >> i think it's hard not to watch that video of him saying i can't breathe, i can't breathe and not be horrified by it but i think there's something bigger than just the individual circumstances. obviously the individual circumstances are important, but i think it's also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes so that driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive but then some politician also had to direct the police to say hey we want

you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette and for somebody to die over breaking that law, there really is no excuse for it but i do blame the politicians. we put our police in a difficult situation with bad laws. >> all right. senator rand paul will move on to some other news has introduced a formal declaration of war against the islamic state. a year engagement with no ground troops except in limited specific cases. paul has argued the president's action sir come convenients the congress and on "hardball" last night he found common ground with chris matthews when it comes to toppling foreign dictators. >> saddam hussein less stability with hussein gone. hussein was a check and balance against iran and there was some stability by pitting one against the other or letting them check and balance each other. gadhafi being gone it's more dangerous there, ambassador was assassinated. the embassy has fled to tunisia. in egypt i think we're worse off for a while and still in many

ways are not a lot better than we were before. syria, i tell people this over and over again i can't find anybody to dispute this on a factual ground. had we bombed assad a year ago isis would be in damascus and isis would be ten times stronger than they are now had we bombed assad. doesn't make assad a great guy but assad is somewhat a counter balance against isis. >> remarkably i'm in agreement with you, senator. scary a bit. >> mike, that's what we were saying three, four, five months ago is the world more stable today with saddam hussein gone? >> no. >> is the world more stable today with assad who is a butcher but with assad severely weakened? the answer is no. gadhafi dead. another enemy of the united states for many, many years. libya is an absolute train wreck. egypt was an absolute train wreck. we always thought it was a

choice between tyrants and jeffersonian democracy. what we're finding in the middle east is it's a choice between secular tyrants for the most part and islamic radicals. >> throughout the world and it's our history for many, many years, not just recently we have backed in terms of character the wrong people because they are for stability of the countries that they rule and it's only recently that we decided that character was so offensive and the idea they couldn't make their country safe for coca-cola or league of women voters things we can export that we had to change horse. it's turned out disastrously. >> somebody said in these countries you need a dictator that would kill his father and his son and if you don't have that guy at the helm all hell breaks loose. >> all right. mika, you want to get individual offted cruz. do we have to?

>> okay. we're going to do dj first. >> i'll do that in a second. >> cruz upsets my digestive system. >> i thought it was very interesting what he said. we'll get to it later. >> nasa will take the first steps today to send mankind beyond earth's orbit. >> we're awaiting the launch of the unmanned orion capsule from cape canaveral in florida. its mission four and a half hour flight. it's a dry ruchb sorts to test the craft's capabilities, and to unday send humans to mars. >> we should send donny to mars. >> joining us now from cape canaveral nbc news correspondent jay. he's covered every manned space launch since 1961. >> the guy keeps looking younger. >> he'll be counting down with us. good morning, jay. >> good morning cousin joe.

>> good morning. >> what's the status of the launch, jay? >> well listen they don't have a new time because we got within two minutes and 43 seconds, mika, and they had to hold again because of ground winds. as soon as they get this problem taken care of they will pick up again. we got over two hours left in the launch window so hopefully they will get it off the ground today and as you said this is the first step on the way to mars. this spacecraft is the first one that's been around since apollo that can take them beyond low-earth orbit pinpoint will take them back to the moon, beyond the moon, to asteroids and eventually in the 2030s to mars that's plan right now. lot of excitement around here because we haven't had anything to do except to watch the grass grow for the last three years since the last shuttle flew back in july of 2011. so they are very excited about this. >> jay, it's willie geist. great to see you this morning. it's not a big launch unless

you're sitting there. tell us about this mission. i know you said the idea is to get man up to mars sometime in the 2030s. is that a realistic goal do you think for nasa right now? >> it's a realistic goal if nasa gets the budget and you know how that works. so if congress gives them the money they can make it, willie. without any problem. it's just a question of funding the program. they got the big rocket under construction. the sls. they will be launching the first orion hopefully in 2018 and still debating whether or not that will be manned. right now it's not manned. it will go up around the moon and back. what they want to do is study step by step, you know, neil armstrong told congress many times that we needed to get back to what nasa needed to do in space and as exploration and we needed to do it one step at a time and that's what this program is set up to do. one step at a time, eventually getting us to mars.

right now they simply don't know how to go to mars. the biggest problem they have is radiation and, again, with this new rocket they are building they can go mars in half the time than they could have gone back in the apollo days. that makes a big difference. if we sent a crew to mars right now, willie, by the time they got there they would be backling idiots. we got to get all these problems solved. >> that's a good way -- exactly. that's why we want to send donny because there's not much chance of damage. jay, thank you so much. we will, of course, be back with you and when this launch goes. we greatly appreciate it. >> hope i want goes. >> we'll let you know when we have a new time. >> thank you jay. >> even just looking at jay makes me want to move back to florida. >> he's the best. >> out of curiosity, servicing a zero sum game what are we trying

to accomplish. what do we hope happens if we goes to mars. i'm not being cynical. what's the win. >> the win is eventually we can send you up there. >> turning to what's happening on capitol hill, senator ted cruz joined house conservatives like michele back man and steve king to putting off the government shutdown. >> just about every republican candidate in the country campaigned saying if you elect us we will stop president obama's amnesty. what i'm here urging my fellow republicans to do is very, very simple. do what you said you would do. >> yeah. [ applause ] >> honor your commitments, answer the question today, the exact same way you would have answered it a month ago when you were campaigning before the voters. >> yea. >> i agree with that. if you promise one thing in your

district then do it in washington, d.c.. >> good for the country stop obama. >> i'm not saying it's good for the country. what i'm saying is you should keep your word whatever that word is. >> can you said what you said off camera. one of the rare times you really succinctly put it. >> i liked him a lot. i talked to him. a lot of liberals in new york city that come out of their upper east side multimillion dollar mansions that don't understand a guy like ted cruz who fights for the little folk. >> what factually did you mean by that? >> i don't -- >> he's so yesterday. >> i don't think i said that. >> you said it so succinctly which is not always the case. >> the cluster of folk that think the way he does is getting smaller. >> this doesn't happen easily. >> i saw that on zoolander by

the way. >> you understand this, mike. >> i want to take at that look at that. can you go over there and do a little modelling. >> when he asked a question. >> keep going, keep going. just keep going. bye. >> you want to see some blue steel. >> you asked how do you describe this and alex coreson said bad television. mia thank you so much. we're sorry you had to endure donny deutsch. still ahead on "morning joe," congresswoman catherine morris rodgers will be here. >> florida state quarterback within stn hasn't faced charges for an alleged sexual assault. why he still may be thrown out of school. that story and much more ahead on "morning joe." let me get this straight... [ female voice ] yes?

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♪ let's take a look at the morning papers.

"the washington post" a new survey finds the number of military service members who reported sexual assault rose by 8% over the past year. the pentagon report suggests victims are more willing to come forward and file complaints than they have been in the past. about one in four victims filed a report this year as opposed to one in ten in 2012. >> in related news this from the navy times the military is investigating a male officer over claims he secretly filmed female officer in a shower changing on board a submarine. the videos were said to have been made over a year long period. report was initially filed after an officer on a different submarine received the videos. not clear how many videos were made. >> the "huffington post," ben carson is doubling down on his comparisons linking nazi germany to america. the surgeon who is going to the top of the republican presidential nomination field

had this to say. >> the people in nazi germany largely did not believe in what hitler was doing. did they say anything? of course not. they kept their mouth shut. there's important lessons to be learned. the fact that our government is using instruments of government like the irs to punish its opponents, this is not the kind of thing that as far as i'm concerned is a democrat or republican issue. this is an american issue. >> the "usa today" florida state quarterback jameson winston two day student conduct hearing wrapped up yesterday. in a statement read by the heisman trophy winner he denies the allegations of sexual assault and says his accuser consented to sex. a ruling is expected in two to three weeks. winston could get suspended, could be expelled or get no punishment at all. >> the "los angeles times" cdc says less than half of the flu

strains tested this year match up with the vaccine that has been distributed to health centers across north america. that suggests the virus sir cure late in america have mutated meaning flu shots may be less effective. the cdc is now urging doctors to be prepared with antiviral medications. >> james bond is back. spectre is the title. the movie will be released next fall. still ahead mark zuckerberg wants everyone to be connected on facebook and he means everyone. his plan to make that happen ahead. plus house and senate republicans will hold a joint retreat to usher in what they say will be a new era of conservative leadership in washington. member of the republican leadership congresswoman catherine mcmorris rodgers is our guest next on "morning joe."

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now chairwoman of the house republican conference, kathy mcmorris rodgers of washington. good morning. good to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> congresswoman what's the new congress going to look like, republicans are going to run the house and the senate. are we going see the house and senate passing bills. >> that's right. that's right. this is america's new congress and we're excited about putting forward solutions, but, you know, working together. solving problems at the top of the list is going to be those issues related to the economy. what is really going to take to create more jobs. increase take home pay. and ultimately improve people's lives. i'm excited about working with a republican majority in the senate and with the president and the white house. we need be working together. i don't think for one moment one party or one person has theluti we'll be getting together in early january for a joint retreat to start laying out our

priorities for the new congress. >> so you talked about jobs. what's the top thing republicans want to do over the next two years to help create jobs and increase take home pay? >> well, i think energy is at the top of the list. the approval of the keystone project. the repeal of the medical device tax which, again, these are -- this is an american success story when you look at medical device companies, new technologies, and actually improving people's lives. in so many different ways. i think that will be at the top of the list. education policies which we need to make sure we're improving education in this country. all of that contributes to laying that foundation for creating jobs, improving our economy and more take home pay. >> congresswoman, i'm wondering what, in terms of working together and trying to find a way to actually get some functioning happening in washington and the government there, where do you stand on a shutdown on the immigration

battle, and where does that play in the conversation? >> no one is talking about shutting down the government. and that is not where we're headed. we're in really a good negotiations right now. i believe we're very close to having a budget in place. keep the government funded. recognizing that, you know, the house has different priorities than the senate but i believe that you're going to see us coming together and being able to make sure we get this job done which is what we're elected to do. >> right. mike? >> congresswoman, you mentioned in terms of jobs, energy, the pipeline, stuff like that. but it's pretty obvious that in terms of immediate help on the job picture, construction jobs are often the easiest ones to do and infrastructure bills are the easiest ones to get people back network immediately. is there any possibility that the republican dominated congress in both the house and

senate would introduce another stimulus package to put people back to work immediately, to rebuild this badly battered country's infrastructure? >> well i'm not sure the stimulus package was the most effective approach, but we are, the republicans -- it needed to have the priorities of actually building important infrastructure in this country. only a very small percentage of the stimulus package actually went to transportation, infrastructure, which that is going to be a priority. as you think about building a healthy economy, we have a long list of important infrastructure needs in this country and that is a priority. a long term transportation infrastructure bill, there's already been an outline put together between the house and the senate that i think is a good foundation for that. and that is a priority for us. and it's been long overdue.

both parties recognize it. this is something we can come together on which i'm excited about. i think we all recognize that this is -- this is one where we should be able to get it done. >> two other issues. one is a local issue here in new york but a nationwide conversation at this point. i'm wondering what your reaction is to the decision regarding the death of eric garner, no indictment. >> right. right. this is a tragedy. and first of all, just let me say my heart goes out to the family. and i offer my condolences. i think we all have a lot, serious questions that need to be addressed and we they'd to understand what happened, why this decision was made. i believe i would call for the house to have those hearings so that we can better understand, but we need to be taking action, appropriate action, make being sure our local law enforcement has the training, that they are using appropriate force which i think we all recognize that

these are tragedies and it's raised a lot of questions. >> there should be hearings you think to look into this. >> absolutely. >> finally i want to ask about an issue that's very close to your heart the able act. ate measure that would allow people with disabilities open up savings accounts and you brought your son into the issue and have your son cole with you as you were talking about it. tell us what you would like to see happen. >> this is legislation i'm pleased to report passed the house yesterday. the able act. and we have broad bipartisan support. it was first introduced in 2006. a long time in the works. 380 co-sponsors in the house. 74 co-sponsors in the senate. and what it does, it allows for families, for children with disabilities to be able to create tax-free savings accounts where they can set money aside,

you know, for appropriate expenses whether it's education, transportation, other living expenses so that those children with disabilities later on in their life can live independently and hopefully work to their ability and i'm excited about it. you know, i have a son that was born with down syndrome and one of the things we were told as new parents was don't put any money in i had name. no assets because he might not qualify for some government program. you know what? that's the wrong message to send parents. so this is really good legislation and it is really encouraging to see the bipartisan support. >> it makes total sense. thank you so much. good to have you back on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> up next mark zuckerberg's quest to get every human online. how he plans on doing that ahead on "morning joe."

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♪ joining us now with a "first look" at the new issue of "time" managing editor of "time" magazine nanny gibbs. nancy good to have you back on the show. nice event yesterday. thank you. >> i heard it was great. >> very nice. grilled cheeses. first of all, you guys touch on the big story of the day. >> we do. >> in "time." let's start there. because it's very hard to find a voice on the other side of the story. in guess it would be in the room that was making the decision. i don't get it. >> there's a piece about how ferguson is the wrong tragedy for us to have the conversation we need to have about the relationship between law enforcement and communities

because the events are so complex and muddied and in a way the garner case is the opposite. it is hard to see what there is to argue about. we watched the video. we've seen what happened. ate mystery how the grand jury ruled the way they did. and so i think it's easier to have the conversation about what is happening on our streets and what is happening between our communities and police around a case like garner than ferguson where people are arguing past each other about ferguson. and yet in a way they are two sides of the same argument and i think it will be very interesting to see how this conversation shifts in the weeks to come. and is driven now by this latest chapter in the story. >> joe klein is talking about how peace is becoming more and more loose in the middle east. >> it's heartbreaking. he's reporting from a very rare school that's half palestinian, half jewish where families have

tried to create a harmonious community for children to learn and live together where it was set on fire and vandalized and it's heartbreaking for him who has been covering the middle east for years to see the hopes for any kind 2005 state settlement, any kind of co-existence between these communities to feel like it's fading in front of our eyes. >> what is mark zuckerberg doing to get on the cover of "time" magazine? >> you know, our amazing writer has been following zuckerberg for years. he wrote the person of the year profile a new years ago. understands him as well as anybody can. it's basically database facebook was founded ten years ago. zuckerberg just turned 30. his next mission in order for facebook to keep growing he needs a bigger internet. so he's looking at the 4 billion or so people in the world who are not online think what would it take to get them online and by extension get them on facebook. so lev traveled with him to a

remote village in india where a lot of times there's not electricity to test out mark's ideas on what would it take to have a community like this people who all had access to the internet with until applications we learned that hats for economic development, for health, for job creation and for progress. >> tom you were worth billions of dollars when you turned 30. >> yes. this is my second act. >> you've chosen wisely. >> i thought i did. >> it sounds like he's doing a very humanistic thing. he's doing a classic marketing thing. when you're the dominant category leader you don't go for share you grow the category. it's a classic marketing tactic. you own the category. you don't have to worry about defeating other guys. >> one thing that you have a very interesting sit down with teresa sullivan from the university of virginia who is publicly speaking out about what's taking place on the cull turkeys on the campus and hats

taking place with the greek system there. >> the focus is now directed towards fromaternities. driven by alcohol. three quarters of victims of these assaults have been incapacitied by alcohol. she's looking at everything from should bedroom doors have to be locked during parties. i mean this is the conversation. what is the relationship and the ability of campuses to really govern what's happening in these essentially independent organizations where they have become a locust of violence in many of these communities. >> new issue of "time" is out now. nancy gibbs thanks. always good to see you. still ahead holiday shopping season starts earlier and earlier each year. don't blame the retailers. blame yourself. >> yes. >> right. accountability. >> that's a scolding way of teasing. we'll be right back.

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>> don't you watch tv. we're being set up by rich and

powerful toy cocktails. you got big fat cats using the working class. they spend billions of dollars on tv advertisement and then sit there and use subliminal messages approximately i know what i'm taughting about. i studied psychology. i know what's going on. >> a scene from the 1996 comedy "jingle all the way." >> is shopping season is getting earlier and earlier. do we have ourselves to blame. >> okay.

find any big idea artifacts. holiday gifts are starting sooner and sooner. now this year it started in september. >> no? >> i swear it started in >> why? >> because the economy's a little bit better. they're trying to push forward. they're looking around to things. think about the election this year. the economy wasn't about the -- it was about isis, all these other issues. so people are starting to shop and think about what they want to buy for christmas much sooner. >> you say we're looking at this start of christmas season retail searches. this year, they started in september? >> yes. >> people started in september? >> yes. >> i mean, i'm done with all my christmas shopping, don't get me wrong. >> you're saying this is not my

manipulative brethren who have kind of created this? >> it is. >> it's a little bit of both, right, but now you're seeing that cycle work in the favor of advertisers. now they can't say, look we're doing commercials in october and november but don't blame us because you asked for us. >> you know the old saying, don't hate the player, don't hate the game. so you're saying hate the player? >> take some responsibility because we're looking for it. it's one thing to ignore commercials and say i'm going to wait until thanksgiving. but we're falling into the trap too. it's hard to say why are they then putting these commercials on tv. >> every retailer is running sales every day. we've trained the consumer for that. this is not just the holiday phenomenon. that's the way people shop. >> black friday doesn't matter as much because the season used to be 30 or 60 days. now the season is 90 or 100 days. each individual day matters less. >> so next year, july? >> next year, maybe not july.

maybe closer to labor day. maybe starting now you can get your gifts now for next year. >> i saw a video of you in front of kohl's, 3:00 in the morning. >> yep. >> why were you there? >> it's what i do. >> you know, you get discounts. >> but what specifically? because i always wondered, am i missing something? was it the tvs? what were you specifically there for? >> are you trying to get shopping advice from him? >> no, i'm like, this is joe scarborough, 3:00 in the morning at kohl's? >> i'm sure there's some embarrassing stories people have seen you at. >> they don't let me in too many stores. >> have you seen this sony story? >> day three -- >> that's an incredible story. >> i'm really nervous that could happen -- >> that could happen to nbc? >> can you imagine? >> we just have to make sure we don't enrage the north koreans. >> put your salaries out for everybody to see and compare them to each other. >> we've already done that, we're good.

>> full disclosure. >> absolutely. eric, thank you so much. good luck. >> i'll come back whenever you want. >> yes, please do. all right, up next, we still have a lot of ground to cover when it comes to the death eric garner and how police should have handled the situation. straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. ♪ ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. ♪ ♪ look here, daddy, i'm never coming back... ♪ discover the new spirit of cadillac and the best offers of the season. lease this 2015 standard collection ats for around $329 a month.

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i couldn't help but immediately think what it would mean to me to lose dante. life could never be the same thereafter. i can feel how it will never be whole again for mr. garner. i ask everyone to listen to what ben garner said and what eric garner's son said as well. if you really want a dignified life of eric garner, you will do so through peaceful protest. you will work relentlessly for change. you will not sully his name with violence. or vandalism. that doesn't bring us closer. to a better community. the only thing that's ever worked is peaceful protest, nonviolent social activism. that's the only thing that's ever worked. good morning, it is thursday december 4th. with us on set, we have the chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch. and president of the national action network, reverend al

sharpton. along with willie, joe and me on a really, really big morning. >> i've got to show -- start by showing the front of "the daily news." disturbing photo. and what protesters were peacefully chanting last night all across new york city. let me put it over here. we can't breathe. a and, mika, you know, last night all across the city obviously people responding peacefully to the tragedy that unfolded in staten island. bill talked about -- >> and the decision not to indict. >> and the decision not to indict. why don't we get the news and then let's talk to reverend al sharpton with us and donny deutsch and willie. >> widespread protests unfolded

in new york city after a grand jury's decision not to charge a white police officer in the choke hold death of an unarmed black man. as joe just mentioned, the front page of the "new york daily news" reads, quote, we can't breathe." paraphrasing the final words. thousands of protesters took to the streets of new york city, tying up traffic for hours. the brooklyn brick, all shut down by demonstrations. here at rockefeller center, there were heated confrontations between protesters and police. they chanted justice, no tree, during the annual tree lighting ceremony. at least 30 people were arrested across the city. police say garner, a 43-year-old father of 6, tried to resist arrest for allegedly selling loose cigarettes in long island which garner denied. cell phone video showed the officer choking him. and the medical examiner ruled the death a homicide.

his widow and mother say they are shocked the grand jury did not seek charges against the officer. >> he should be here celebrating christmas at thanksgiving and everything else with his children and his grandchildren. and he can't. why? because a cop did wrong. somebody that get paid to do right did wrong and he's not held accountable for it. how can we put our trust in the justice system when they fail us like this? they don't only fail me, they failed many of us. if we don't take care of this, they may fail you in the future. >> the officer told the grand jury he was trying to use a wrestling move because choke holds are not allowed that he learned in the police academy, not a choke hold. he was saying he couldn't breathe. in a statement, pantaleo said,

it is never my intention to harm anyone. and i hope that they will accept my personal condolences for their loss. >> willie, if you look at the pictures and you look at the video, the officer's statement just doesn't wash. he said he immediately got off the choke hold as fast as he could. he continued choking him while he was on the ground. this is on video. we have been talking about ferguson. we've been debating ferguson. just like trayvon was debated. this is really no debate here. this is on homicide. it's on video. there's a choke hold. it's been banned by the police department. there's no indictment. there's a lot of people. a lot of people. who disagreed with me on trayvon. agreed with me on ferguson waking up this morning going what the hell happened on staten island. this seems obvious. >> when we cover these stories, we want to be fair. i sat back and watched the

entire video. this is a guy who starts off -- he's got his hands in the air. >> hands in the air from the beginning. >> he's saying, please, officer, stop. please, officer, stop. leave me alone, leave me alone. he was selling loose cigarettes. >> selling cigarettes. a man is dead today because he was selling loose cigarettes. >> okay, so if you take the cop at his word and say eric garner was resisting arrest, you have to restrain him somehow, you've got him to the ground now. you can take your hand off his head. you can take your arm -- >> first, he kept him in the choke hold. and then when you let him out of the choke hold, then he was shoving his face into the cement. was still saying, i can't breathe. obviously we went back and forth on ferguson. there's a lot of disputes in

ferguson. that's why there's the debate there is. there aren't any disputes on what happened. this is outrageous. >> trayvon martin was killed simply because he was a black man. we agreed on that. in the michael brown case, i think that was a criminal going after a cop, got shot, i don't think that's a black and white issue. this is a tragedy. the tape speaks for itself. the one thing, and i'm so proud of new yorkers, the way they performed last night. that's the way to do it. the one thing we have to remember, there is nothing but a tragedy there, is that -- is that -- al, want to ask your opinion about this. in america right now and operating rooms around this country, there's a doctor who has just done a malpractice as we speak and somebody died. that doesn't mean every doctor is bad. the majority of police officers

are doing their job right and they're not out to hurt people and i just think we have to remember that also. having said this is a tragedy of epic proportions and obviously this should have been an indictment. >> reverend al, if i could have asked the question you asked, joe. eric garner was killed by police. right? >> i think that's the problem. i think the problem is that we cannot depend on impartiality. one of the reasons -- talk about marching in washington next saturday, the 13th. is to say the justice department must take it out of the local grand jury realm. >> and the justice department is actually -- they opened an investigation. >> they opened an investigation on -- because grand juries basically only get what the local prosecutor gives it.

and they're elected. they have to deal with police unions. they have to deal with the police on a day-to-day basis for their evidence. >> obviously, we agreed on trayvon, talked a lot about that. we disagreed on ferguson. >> i disagreed calling michael brown a criminal. he had never been arrested for anything and never -- vehemently disagreed with that, donny. >> he didn't just come from a robbery? >> you called him a criminal. >> let's not debate this morning. we all agree that the grand jury is supposed to be there to say is there probable cause. the grand jury does not try a crime. with this tape, you're going to say there's no probable cause to go to trial? >> here's another structural problem. i was going to say, we

disagreed. we agree more than we disagree. but even through all of that, you know, you can look at the grand jury regardless of which side you're on. see, there's a structural problem because time and time again prosecutors want an indictment and the grand jury system have as their allies cops. so there's and again it is did i proportionately against blacks. the same thing would happen against whites. hispanic, et cetera. the second thing is a grand jury, "the new york times" said this, is going to give a police officer more time than not the benefit of the doubt. the prosecutor is more or less on the cop side. >> one thing i do agree with donny about is it doesn't make all cops bad or even most cops. but what we've got to do is have a mechanism where if you have a bad cop or just a questionable cop, it can be dealt with fairly

and -- and for a grand jury to not operate -- saying there's probable cause, i think that is what poisons the system. >> mika, so many people are waking up this morning, asking what the hell happened in staten island. imagine if you're 16, 1, 18-year-old, you know, black man or if you're the mother of -- it is what happened yesterday reinforces all of the fears, all of the beliefs, of the criminal justice system that we've said repeatedly here operates differently for black americans and white americans. >> i haven't met one person since this decision came down that doesn't feel it was completely wrong that this is the one that was cut and dry. this is the one that would have gone through to an indictment. until i saw peter king on the air, which was disturbing.

it's his opinion, and we need to allow all opinions. i just haven't seen that opinion anywhere. >> just to show you how stacked it is in the favor of cops there have been 60,000 cases brought. 99% of the time they get an indictment. these last two times, they didn't. to al's point, you just have to show probable cause. basically the prosecutors in this case did not even cross examine the police officer. so they're just not going to indict cops. >> can we talk about new york for a second? because i was really -- i was really impressed with the people that were protesting last night. yeah, some people got angry. for good reason. but for the most part -- barnacle went out in the crowd which, you know, he should really be, you know -- >> contained. >> he should really be in his nursing home. he went out. he said it was an inviting

crowd. it was a lot of children there. they were -- the protests were actually -- >> it was children. literally, all the way to seniors. i think -- >> by the way, i saw signs last night. i obviously had problems -- you may have heard -- with the slogan coming out of ferguson. i can't breathe. i mean, that's a pretty powerful message. and this stops today. >> no, the one point that i think you made and i think it bears repeating is that when the officer tells the grand jury unchallenged as donny says, well, i got off as quick as i could and the fact he said i can't breathe means he could breathe. he said it 11 times. 11 times. you said you got off as quickly as you could. >> i can't breathe. >> yeah, he's thrust into -- >> joe, you talked about new york. i really think in ferguson we saw a city that officials were

really out of tune with the neighborhood. and i think mayor deblauso was a real leader yesterday. and i think one of the reasons why we didn't see violence is because new york is a great city and i think -- >> mechanisms, the mayor and others, but i think their movements that for monthses have been on this. we had about 12,000 people march in staten island. people said it was going to be a riot and there was nothing. all the way through this. i think when you have organizers there saying wait a minute, we want to get change. not just -- >> we have problems. we have problems. >> we want to solve the problems. we're connected to the families that are suffering. these are not activates. they want to see real change. when you have people believe in a way they don't want to let their family down. >> you have community policing. you have actually a reservoir of

trust, again, that sometimes they screw up. sometime, they make terrible mistakes. but there's not the frustration in ferguson where 95% of the police officers are white in the community and 70% black. >> still needs some improvement. they had protests coming up, broadway, where i live. then i walked the other way from my apartment building to the west side highway which was shut down going southbound and the cars were all sitting there but it was by and large peaceful. we talked through trayvon and we talked through ferguson about how everyone immediately ran to their ideological corners. it became a political fight. on this one, if you looked at social media or talked to friends or watched tv, it was almost unanimous. the farthest right conservatives and the farthest right liberals both saying, come on, man, this is on video. >> that's why i think eric holder, i think the justice

department, i think president obama is going to have wide latitude to move forward. in ferguson, there's so many questions. it's two sides competing against each other. here, it's an open and shut case. >> here's the point. which is why we're going to washington. the problem that you have, joe, you have ferguson, you have staten island, you have the 12-year-old in cleveland, you have the young man in brooklyn, all within 90 days. so it requires the federal government to say wait a minute, with all of this happening, we've got to address policing. when i got the call from the grandfather in ferguson, we were already in the middle of the garner case that just happened. >> can i stop for just one second. i'm glad you said that. i catch a lot of crap for conservatives for being your friend and for saying you're my

friend. even when we disagree, we always talk respectfully to each other. i think i'm going to turn to the camera now and say this. al sharpton does foot go out looking for these people like a trial lawyer. the families call him and ask him to come. it happened in ferguson. it happened in staten island. i just wanted to say that -- >> people call where you have organizations that have done this successfully. >> i hear the same story over and over again from my conservative friends -- >> -- walkie-talkie waiting at night -- >> a police scanner -- that you're like a trial lawyer that's, like, advertising. it's not the case. >> and we get nothing with this. we have nothing to do with lawsuits, nothing. >> -- calls from the families. there's other stuff you do you don't talk about that this happens because families pick up the phone and they call you because they need help. >> and let me say this, you catch flack from me and my friend and vice versa and we

disagreed and you've -- before congress and we've talked about it -- >> you remember that -- willie, that was a -- >> if america can see that you and i can say, i vehemently disagree on this but i'll come together on this, that's what makes the country work. no one is trying to destroy the country. there's a different between anarchists and activists. they don't care about eric garner's family. activists are saying we want to make the system work for everybody. and there's a difference between a conservative and those that just are -- and a confederate. conservatives have a view of government. confederates say, shut up, do what i say, don't question. i think you and i have to say on both sides of this, wait, let's have a mature adult conversation. >> because, and this is the thing that bill clinton always understood, there's always a vote tomorrow. i may be -- i may even vote to

impeach you today. but tomorrow, we're going to be fighting together for long-term health care. and the next day. and that's the thing that -- too many of these people, like you said, willie, they -- they don't realize that tomorrow there's another fight. you want asp people on your side as possible in that fight. i think -- this is a really -- i think this is actually a unifying case that is going to i think make a difference in the long run. >> i hope it does. one thing -- other thing i will say is the police cameras we've been talking about, here we had it on camera and we still get an indictment. it's a reminder that police cameras will help but it's not a -- >> here's the thing though, the cop may have said he knew he was being recorded. i was talking about this in august. i don't think he knew he was being recorded. if he knew he had a body camera on him -- see, it's not just getting the images. it's the chilling effect for bad

cops. as i've said repeatedly. good cops have nothing to worry about. and there's a chilling effect on bad cops. if i'm going like this and i know a choke hold has been banned by the nypd and this guy's saying i can't breathe, i'm thinking, wait a second, they're picking all of this up. and, you know, i'm patting him on the back saying, please -- i mean, that's i think for me even as much as getting the video the chilling effect on bad cops. >> the cameras are also going to work against bad criminals also. that's the good news. to you guy's point, the silver lining in this case, this will be the change in this case because there are two sides here. >> i think we've all seen -- there's a real structural problem with the grand jury system. in this country when it comes to trying to analyze what police

officers did. and this case is just a slam dunk. >> i think mika hit it on the head. you've got to deal with -- it's happening all over. this is the moment that we've got to say we're going to structurally repair a broken system in terms of how we deal with policing. >> would eric garner have died if they had gone after him for loose cigarettes and had to take him down? >> no, we talk about stop and frisk. we deal with the policies, which i've debated and gotten attacked for arguing that. you've got to deal with the policies. you've got to deal with what structure is. that's where i agree with you. >> still ahead on "morning joe," congressman keith ellison will be with us. first, the dirty tricks of the digital music industry. the extreme measures apple apparently took to make sure you

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>> disi believe aed. >> establish main power on. >> main power is on. >> welcome back, everybody. this is the highly anticipated morning we have been talking about. want to take you back live to the kennedy space center in florida. as we're watching here and witnessing. we're waiting the launch of the unmanned orion capsule. so bring us up to speed. what are we watching right here?

>> well, again, right now, they're holding. what happened was they got down to within about three minutes here and it looked like we were going to go at 26 minutes per hour and they had a valve that didn't open. so it didn't close properly and so they can't launch so we don't know what's going to happen here. it's been one thing after another. overheating cores, all sorts of problems. everybody here is very excited about it because they're calling it the first brick on the highway to mars. we, if we go to mars, it's going to be another 20 years. but this will be the vehicle that can take us there, the or ryan spacecraft. what they hope to do today is get it in lower earth orbit, to 3,600 miles out in space, turn it around, bring it back in at 20,000 miles an hour. to test the vehicle's heat

reentry system. to see if it would stand the 4,000 degrees heat coming through the earth's atmosphere. now, that's twice as hot as molten lava from a volcano. but the apollo spacecraft, they did more than that. they came back in at 24,000 miles per hour. but this will give a good test if this vehicle, which is 2 1/2 times larger than the apollo, if they can make trips to the moon. so it's a first step. and so they still got time to get it off. but right now, they're holding again. no estimate on how long the hold is. >> we've heard a lot lately about private space travel and ways been taking place in the private community with sir richard branson and we kind of lost the american way about how to be excited about nasa and projects for nasa. how exciting is this for americans to get reinvigorated

about the projects, the future of nasa and what they're doing? >> well, you know, this is nasa's future. nasa was put together by congress of the united states when we were beat be into space by the first russians with the first satellite to explore space. well, they've gotten completely away from that. s say, in the last 42 years. you have to remember, there hasn't been an american astronaut or american astronaut out of earth orbit for 42 years since apollo 17 cape back in december 1972. so here we are trying to get back to space, to do it by increments, to go to the moon. they've got to learn how to live in space. they've got to learn how to get to mars? now, why would we do that? a lot of people say, well, i don't know why we're doing that. we're doing it to save the human race. because we're living on a planet that is finite. we're going to lose it one day. we don't know how. are we going to lose it to some

disease like ebola? we've got to be able to get off of this planet. we've got to set up. this is what the people -- who the dreamers are and the people here, they want to go do that. for the last 40 years, we've been just going around and around in space in lower earth orbit. we're on the space station. you never get any higher than a couple hundred miles u.n. so it's time to get back. that's what they're very excited about today. >> wow. that is one way -- that answers your question. >> jay, thank you. at the table kind of said in a very respectful way, what's the win here, and you just said it. >> we all need to get out of here. >> jay is -- >> -- all my relatives to survive, guys. >> jay, that is amazing. >> i got to tell you two things, jay. first, 20 years from now, when they finally go to mars, we're hoping and expecting you'll cover that. also -- >>cy hope so, i hope so. i'll be here.

boy, will i be old then. hey, mika, joe, willie, i'll take you with me, okay. >> we don't have to go see "interstellar" now because jay just explained it. >> make sure you give donny the 411 on the beach front property on mars. >> location, location, location. >> we've got to get that up there. hey, joe, you've got some beach front up on the gulf. i got some atlantic out here. joe and i are cousins. joe, joe will not admit it, and, you know, i'm not too eager to admit it either. boy, we are distant cousins. but he's richer than i. he's got more money. >> jay barbury, thank you so much. up next, great to have you on, jay, up next, congressman keith ellison joins us with his reaction to the eric garner grand jury decision and where things go from here. stay with us. she inspires you.

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the video of mr. garner's arrest. his death of course was a tragedy. all lives must be valued.

all lives. mr. garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. this is not a new york issue. nor a ferguson issue alone. >> this was attorney general eric holder addressing the country about a federal investigation into the death of eric garner as hundreds protested in the streets of new york. joining us from washington, democratic congressman keith ellison of minnesota. keith, good to have you on the show. >> thanks, mika, how are you? >> we're all really disturbed by what happened. and do you think the federal investigation will be enough? >> you know what, i think that it is important to do. i'm glad we're pursuing it. i got to tell you, i think we got to look at the fact both the garner and the brown incident and all these incidents happened in neighborhoods where unemployment is above 10%.

they happen where rages are low. and i think wive got to affect the economics of the neighborhood as well. if we only address the justice issue and never get to address an issue of poverty and economic opportunity in these communities, it's going to be a chronic problem. the police just manage poverty. and it just goes on and on. and we've been doing this for 50, 60 years. i remember, you know, reading about the carter commission report in the 1960s. so that's one of the reasons why i'm glad that also going on today are about 190 cities doing low wage worker strikes, again demanding 15 and a union. these two things are connected. we've got to raise the pay. and that will not stop the police problems overnight. but it will have a very positive effect over time. >> it's certainly a facet of it. i totally agree with you there. it's sort of the issue of our decade which is inequality. whether it's in policing or whether it's in, you know, the economic status of our citizens.

and the fast food, how are those protests going? are they having any impact? because i see them. it doesn't really seem like they resonate. what's happening today? and what is happening moving forward on that? >> just a couple days ago, in chicago -- >> right, $13 an hour. >> not only there. it's been -- whether it's san francisco or whether it is seattle. all over the country, these things have really been moving. and so it's -- because congress won't step up on behalf of struggling workers. the workers are taking the issues into their hands. but think about this, would somebody be on the street selling loosy cigarettes if they had a decent job, if the economics of the neighborhood were better? i mean, this is part and parcel of the depressed economic condition of the neighborhoods where these horrible incidents occur. i think we've got to take that on if we want to effect the long-term problem.

these things are building. 190 cities. i remember they were below 100. and they have been winning these things. a lot of the same people are participating, in these ferguson/eric garner rallies. a lot of the same people. weem got to look, do we want to solve this problem long term or do we want to just do something in the short term. because i think that the economic and social conditions of these communities is at the heart of the problem. the police manage difficult circumstances and the fact is a lot of people that go overbroad. >> congressman, i don't want to be overly cynical about what you're saying here. i agree with you. but you know better than most that in areas like we're talking about, in areas like where eric garner died, not necessarily where he died, staten island's fairly vibrant, but in many

minority communities, in many lower income communities, three elements of our culture adhere, take care of people. the police departments, the school system and hospital emergency rooms have become in effect the family doctor for many poor people. so we've been talking about these issues for 50 to 60 years in this country. what gives you any sense of hope that given the culture of the present congress of the united states, that we could even have a conversation about this today? >> well, because you've got 190 cities where people are in the street demanding their rights. these things always start from the ground up. i mean, look, you know, the civil rights movement didn't start with lyndon baines johnson signing the voting rights law. i mean, it started when people protested in montgomery, alabama. it even started before that. these things always start with the people in the streets making demands, being active citizens, making government respond to their needs. these workers out here and these

protesters on these justice issues, they're going to make sure congress does eventually respond. what we've got to do is connect their activity have the ballot box. you can't disconnect the bread box from the ballot box. once we make that linkage, think you're going to see a new day. that's why i'm very optimistic. >> john. >> do you have conversations with business or corporate leaders along these lines? the ancient concerns about economic justice are perennial. in terps of this kind of violence, do you think, do you detect in the employer community as opposed to the political one an interest in stepping up to try to ameliorate these conditions? >> yes, i do. this is the talk whether you're in the board room or in the house floor, people are talking about ferguson and garner all over the country, all walks of life. we have to get this sector of the business community that really does care. it is absolutely there to get

some -- to get some good ideas with how we really affect employment and wages. you look at employ es like costco and punch pizza in minneapolis and others. there are people who understand that we have got to help people leave the working class, enter the middle class. and that will address a lot of these justice issues. i guarantee you, issues of police accountability will decline as the wages in the neighborhood increase. >> i agree. >> when you talk about policing accountability, the president's coming to you and your colleagues to ask for $75 million to pay for 50,000 police body cameras. if we look at the garner video, that means we would have five different angles from police on garner. we only have one video that we need to see of the excessive deadly force that was used to kill him. yet there is no indictment. so how do you think that money is going to be used and well spent to combat excessive deadly force to a lacking judicial

system? >> well, i mean, the fact is, people have to demand a sense of justice. people in the streets are going to make the system more responsive. there's no way you can continue to deny this. everyone knows that there should have been some level of indictment in the eric garner case. even negligent homicide, reckless endangerment, something. how can there be no issue here at all? it's absurd. so, you know, i have confidence that responsive government is going to listen to the cries of people who have legitimate point of view that they're making and i know that there's even police who are sitting around thinking, wow, how'd that guy get away with that again? because the officer got hit with a $30,000 judgment before. he used an illegal choke hold and he's walking from this as if nothing happened. it's wrong and i think people see that and i think when people get, you know, when politicians see the light when they feel the

heat and when people get out there and make their voices heard, use their first amendment rights, it makes a big difference. >> congressman, thank you very much. up next, the new service that amazon just launched that helped people do something most do every day. we'll tell you what it is when we come right back.

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you don't need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg... isn't as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. cnbc's sara eisen. how are the latest jobless numbers? >> they look pretty good. fewer americans filed last week. 17,000 fewer for a total of 297,000. it's an important number because it's back below that 300,000.

that's good. that's progress. we'll see if we get more progress. tomorrow, the all-important monthly jobs report is out. and speaking progress and good news, guys, the dow jones industrials are now within less than 90 points of 18,000. that represents another milestone of what has been a year of record highs. get this, guys, 33 record high closings for the dow in 2014. it's been that kind of a year. >> do you think we could do 18,000? >> we're less than 90 points away. and december historically is a very positive month for stocks going into the end of the year with all the portfolios rebalancing. so we've got a shot. another piece of good news here. we've been following lower gas prices across the country. guess what? lowest gas price in the country right now, oklahoma city.

$1.99 per gallon. it's the first time. it's amazing. the first time we've seen a u.s. gas station have below $2 gas in four years. the national average is $2.75. but it just continues to fall by the day. >> sara, mike barnacle got a tip. one word. plastics. >> plastics? >> yeah, i got that from barnacle. >> what do you want my opinion on exactly? >> he just said plastics and i want to know what i should do with that. >> buy low, sell high. >> i don't give investment tips, as i told you guys earlier. >> it was a bad joke, i'm sorry. >> she wasn't even born when -- >> i want to know about amazon. >> sure, so amazon is actually getting into new business. it's taking on seamless and grub hub and launching a new takeout and delivery service for restaurants. it's apparently live right now in seattle. it's a very quiet launch. one of these other businesses

that amazon's getting into. of course we pay attention and watch it because they have a history of disruption. another story i want to mention because you guyed talks about it a little earlier. apple's in the middle of this antitrust case in oakland, california. and there are allegations from the consumers here that back in 2006 apple put on an ipod update where without telling consumers it erased downloaded songs from rivals. just one of the revelations to come from what has become an interesting case where they're even digging up old e-mails from steve jobs. >> oh, wow, it seems like dirty pool. sara eisen, thank you so much. up next, how one company is partnering with st. jude children's research hospital to make sure families get the care they need. those remarkable stories are next. turn the trips you have to take,

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here with us now, the president and ceo of mazda north american operations jim o'sullivan and president and ceo of the st. jude's research childrens hospital. it is one of the partners included in the 2014 mazda drive for good event, a campaign to raise awareness about charitable

giving and local volunteering. good to have you both on board. i guess, jim, i'll start with you. tell us about the 2014 drive for good campaigns. >> it is really a platform that we launched last year. what it really does is pull together all the individual things that mazda around the united states has been doing. whether it's our own employees, our dealer network, our dealership employees. as collectively pulling the group together. we're able to leverage those re, sos further to help communities and charitable giving. we generate not only funding and money to go to charities but we also generated 56,000 charitable volunteer hours that go back into the communities to help these local charities. about 44 local ones. more importantly, what it does, it raises the level of awareness of the charities that are out there. you might want to mention something about that from that standpoint. >> that's absolutely correct.

certainly, we always need the fund-raising dollars because that goes right to our mission. to let people know there are resources available like st. jude's children's research hospital. we coulder in pay for what mazda has done for us, awareness they created. >> how do you decide how do you get together with st. judes? all the marketing possibilities, how do you end up with st. jude's? >> we've had a relationship with them for a number of years. we've got american heart association. and other groups. but we felt in terms of what st. jude's provides back to the communities and what it does for not only patients and people in memphis but what it does on a national basis. as you know, it's got a really great tradition and as a result of it we thought twaz a really good partnering for not only charitable giving. >> we've seen some of the best

commercials on tv that really explain the mission. you introduce to us who you're helping. it is the stories of these young boys be an girls and also some adults that you're helping. let's just make a more intimate picture so everybody understands who we have. we've got a 16-year-old who's in texas. who is fighting acute myeloid leukemia. >> correct. >> we have ingram, who's just 6 years old in tennessee, who is also going through anaplastic -- >> a brain tumor. >> just 6 years old. we have grabby who's 26 years old, also in tennessee, who has ewings sarcoma. >> it's a solid tissue. these kids come from across the world. gabby's not from tennessee, she's from a foreign country. she now lives in tennessee. we see about 8,000 kids per year. they come from all 50 states.

they come to st. jude because we give them the best chance of survival from some of the most difficult cancers. >> we should point out quickly, too, it's only possible -- it's a miracle factory. where you don't pill patients when they're there. in concert with companies like mazda. >> companies like mazda and middle america, it's all of america, you know, literally $2 million per day to operate st. jude's children research hospital. 75% of that money has to be raised. that means it comes from the public. we're able to do that. no family pays st. jude for anything. >> that's incredible. >> -- cost of travel, housing, food, we even have a school. no medical bills what sore. we follow these kids for life because we want to know how they fared an pediatric cancer survivors as they go into adulthood. >> thank you so much. really incredible what you're both doing. >> thank you. happy holidays to everyone. >> yes, absolutely. what if anything did we learn today? you owned your car for four years.

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party. >> great, great event. >> posting the video? >> yeah, here's the video. >> that's real tall. >> that's amazing. >> wow. >> all right. donny. >> i learned nothing. >> okay. >> sometimes it's just three hours wasted. >> sometimes it's best if you say nothing. >> yes. >> actually. barnacle, anything? >> nothing new that donny learned nothing. yeah, st. jude's. it's a miracle factory. st. jude's hospital, miracle factory. >> all right. more to come tomorrow. if it's way too early, it's time for "morning joe." but now it's time for "the rundown." have a great day, everybody. and you're looking at a live picture from kennedy space center where the orion spaceflight is on hold. some high winds and tecal