this sunday -- >> no justice. >> no peace. >> anger and disbelief across the country after a grand jury decides not to indict a police officer in a chokehold death. >> each of us has to grapple with some hard truths about race and justice in america. >> is the criminal justice system failing african-americans? america in black and white. our new poll on how differently african-americans and whites view the police. plus, the fight within the republican party over immigration. >> we have limited options in terms of how we can deal with this. >> how far will republicans go to block president obama's executive action? >> what i'm here urging my

fellow republicans to do is very, very simple. do what you say you will do. [ cheers ] and how rich is your member of congress? i will break down how washington politicians are doing very well this last decade. while ordinary americans continue to tread water. i'm chuck todd. joining me for insight and analysis are cnbc's rick santelli, amy walter of the cook political report, john stanton and ka seem reed, mayor of atlanta. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." good morning. it has been another week with headlines dominated by an angry reaction to a grand jury decision not to prosecute a white police officer for killing a black man. last week the story was in ferguson, missouri. this week, new york city. the grand jury's decision not to indict daniel pantaleo, who put eric garner in a chokehold which

led to mr. garner's death brought thousands to the streets. what was different was even as protesters demonstrated coast to coast, politicians from across the little bitle call spectrum came together to condemn the new york decision. >> what do we want? >> justice. >> when do we want it? >> now. >> mr. garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. >> i asked them, what do you want? what is the point? they said they want accountability from the nypd, from the prosecutor over in staten island. and they said that they are going to be out here every night marching until they get an indictment in the death of eric garner. >> he got a camera.

>> i do think that the american people deserve more answers about what really happened here and was our system of justice handled properly. >> don't shoot. >> hands up. >> the crowd is reflective of a lot of people in new york city that are tired of autocratic, unaccountable police. >> when you are dealing with something as deeply rooted as racism or bias in any society, you got to have vigilance, but you have to recognize that it's going to take some time and you just have to be steady so that you don't give up. >> black lives matter. black lives matter. >> i had dinner with condi the other night. we talked about this subject. she said you got to understand that there are a lot of black folks around that are just

incredibly -- or are more and more distrusting of law enforcement, which is a shame because law enforcement's job is to protect everybody. >> we have had to talk to donte about the dangers he may face. we had to train him as families have all over this city for decades in how to take special care in any encounter he has with police officers who are there to protect him. >> i'm joined by the widow of eric garner and reverend al sharp ton, founder and president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation." mrs. garner, first of all, my condolences. >> thank you. >> your husband is now the face of bias in our law enforcement. how do you feel about that? >> i feel that he was murdered unjustly. i feel like -- i don't even feel like it's a black and white thing, honestly.

you know, in my opinion. i really don't feel like it's a black and white thing. i feel like it's just something that he continues to do and the police knew, you know, they knew. it wasn't like it was a shock. they knew. you know? they knew him by name. they harassed us. they said things to us. we would go shopping. you know, they -- hi, cigarette man. hey, cigarette man wife. i would say, keep walking, don't say anything, don't respond, don't give them a reason to do anything to you. he just felt like -- he'd say, baby, they keep harassing me. and i say, just ignore them, eric. he said, how much can i ignore them? i would say, just stay away from the block. you know? just find something else to do. and he is like, what else can i do? i keep getting sick. he tried working with the parks department. but he had asthma. he had issues. you know?

heavy guy. and he was very lazy. you know, he didn't like to do anything. he wasn't used to it. >> you say he was murdered. >> yeah. i feel like that. i feel like he was murdered. >> you obviously aren't going to get your day in criminal court. but you are still looking for a day in court. >> i'm looking for it, yes, because i think -- you know, it would only be right. not only for my husband but for all the other young men and women and my sons. i have two sons that i have to train now. i have a 15-year-old. i have won't even let him go two blocks away from my house. on halloween, he wanted to go out trick or treating. and i kept him in the house. i went and bought him all kinds of candy and told him, please stay in the house. i just don't want him to go outside because now that everybody knows who he is, you know, that he's eric garner's son, you know, i fear. and now my other son is in college.

and he is in jersey and newark, and i make him call -- he's like, mom, i'm 20. call me at least in the morning before you go to class, when you get out of school, don't go to no parties, don't do this. you know, i'm so afraid of what could happen to them in the street, by the police. i'm afraid of the police. >> are you afraid of the police? >> yes, i am. that's why i left staten island. you know, i couldn't -- i live two, three blocks tops away from the 120. so if there's a bottle thrown on my block, the 120 is coming to see about it. if there's an argument or a fight between neighbors or something, the 120 is coming to -- i couldn't stay there anymore. you know? everything on staten island is centered on bay street.

so you one way or the other, you have to go to bay street. and that's where they are all. and they all knew who i was as well. you know? >> reverend sharpton, there have been protests coast to coast. the reaction it seems to this grand jury non-decision much different than the reaction to what happened in ferguson. we had a more polarized reaction. this one not so polarized. do you see that as progress. >> as long as we take it to some real change. this saturday we're having a national march that mrs. garner and the family from ferguson is leading to call for congressional action. the congress needs to not only do hearings, we need to deal with the jurisdictional threshold of how you make a federal case. how will she get her day in court? you've got to be able to move the jurisdictional threshold, which congress can do. congress need to put money in the justice department to investigate these cases. we have to go bring protests to where it goes into legislation. otherwise, we will be back here again. >> which is why i know you are trying to set up a big protest

for -- >> this coming saturday the 13th. >> want to get you to react to something that patrick lynch in new york said on thursday. the patrolmen's benevolent association. here is what he said. >> you cannot resist arrest, because resisting arrest leads to confrontation, confrontation leads to tragedy. so we feel badly that there was a loss of life. but unfortunately, mr. garner made a choice that day to resist arrest. >> blaming mr. garner. >> first of all to blame the victim, the insensitivity of that is striking. but it's also -- when you look at the video, the difference between ferguson and staten island, even though we bring them together for this march, is as a video. if you see in the video a man taken down on the ground with police over him and then you continue to choke him in the chokehold is illegal, are you

now saying at the worst case, if he had resisted arrest and clearly he didn't that the penalty then is that you choke him to death? i think it's the most absurd premise that this person could have said. >> you wanted to react. i watched your eyes. i watched your head shake. >> because you know i'm not going to say he was a career criminal. but i'm going to say he had a past of being arrested. and he never, not once, ever resisted arrest. he has done a little bit of time. he accepted his time when the judge handed it to him. i will be home, they gave me 2 1/2. as far as my history in new york city, i've seen a lot of people resist arrest. i have seen people pull out guns on cops and live. >> but that's the point. you bring up race. she has tried to say, i don't want to deal with race as the issue, but clearly they treat differently. if he was of a different race with the same background, no

one tried to sugarcoat anyone's background, would he have been treated the same way? that's what we're talking about. you cannot have a broken window policing if you have broken training, broken accountability and police that claim that i have the right to bring you down and then later say, it's resisting even when a videotape says it's not. so we're not talking about making victims saints but we're talking about not giving a past to police who do what's wrong. you can't have two wrongs to make one civil right. >> i want to ask you on the issue here, we are talking about mr. garner having to sell single cigarettes to survive. to make a living. do you need to be focusing your efforts also on this economic problem? >> absolutely. and we do. >> that a lot of african-american communities feel as if a hopelessness on the economic front? >> we do. which is why we aggressively -- the national action network and the civil rights community supported a jobs bill,

infrastructure development. when we go and challenge men in our community to say, you've got to stand up and you have to be responsible, they need jobs. they need training. so at one hand, we can't expand the public sector for jobs. at another hand, they say, we're being harassed and treated differently by law enforcement. so we have to strike a balance that is not in our power to do, which is why we're going at the congress to make that possible. you can't tell men to take care of their families and kill jobs. you can't have it both ways. >> my condolences. thank you for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you for having me. >> we will discuss a lot of the reform issues here in just a moment. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> i'm joined now on a panel, rick santelli, amy walter, john stanton, kaseem reed. we have new polling this morning. we went in the field on law enforcement issues. not surprisingly, a big divide between blacks and whites. we asked agree or disagree with

this. are there different standards in the law enforcement community that they apply to blacks and whites? whites disagree, 39 to 51%. african-americans 82% agree there are different standards applied. how about confidence that the police -- law enforcement community will treat races equally? 52% of whites have a great deal of confidence. 43% of african-americans have very little confidence. of course, confidence in the legal system, after ferguson, after staten island, has it increased or decreased? in this case, whites and blacks say their confidence in the legal system has decreased. whites, 35% decreased, with blacks, 70%. mayor reed, the atlanta police department, do you feel they treat blacks and whites the same in your city? >> you have to take it on a case by case basis. we do a better job than most. if you look at the -- >> why? >> if you look at the racial

composition of the police department it looks like the communities that we serve. look at the movement toward cameras and videos. we were discussing it already before the ferguson judgment. because of the history of the city of atlanta, we work harder at issues of race than other communities do. it's a part of the dna of our city being the home of dr. martin luther king. what i made clear is ferguson can happen anywhere. because it's about the judgment of an individual officer. what we have to do is we have these conversations and move conversations to real reform is to make sure that we don't take a broad brush and paint police officers as bad people because they do a tough job. when we see wrong, we need to act decisively, chuck. in order to make the real value from the losses we have seen, we have to move forward on training, caring about the equity in terms of the racial composition of the police force and the conversation around video cameras is over.

we're going to -- >> that clearly is. rick, this is a trusting government issue. i say we talk about -- we sit here and talk about trust in government. we were focused on agencies and competency, health care, this here is another part of the population, african-americans, who have a trust in government issue and in this case it's law enforcement. >> when you talk about trust if government, you are preaching to the choir. whether it's on the financial side, central banking side, we see areas where the government does good jobs. we see other area where is they don't do as good of jobs. the mayor nailed it. i haven't understood in this world of technology where every building has a camera, every atm has a camera, why don't we have cameras on police officers? it's sad that this horrible tragedy had to bring that about. but there's also a huge responsibility for us in the media, leaders like reverend al sharpton to make sure that this story doesn't end up like university of virginia "rolling stone." we have to make sure we do it right. a huge responsibility.

these cases might represent a small percentage of all the issues. police, for the most part, do a good job. but that doesn't mean that we can't do better. and i think this is the time to begin this discussion. >> you are both here in d.c. you have been residents with me here a while. rick is a chicago guy. kaseem is an atlanta guy. we have seen washington go through this transition. i would say 20 years ago, we had a trust problem between the populous and law enforcement. it has been slowly restored. what's worked, do you think, in washington? >> i think the police in d.c. have learned that they can't -- they have to try to avoid what i think is a cultural problem in our country which is people look at young black men as threats automatically. it's how they have been defined. >> guilty until proven innocent? >> guilty until proven innocent. when you add that to the justice system, that creates a volatile mix. i think the police in d.c. have tried harder than in a lot of other places to not do that. but you see it here.

it's not as pronounced. we haven't had something like garner or anything like that happen here of late. but you do see it still happening here. young black men are constantly being pulled over, being stopped, walking on the street. i see it in my neighborhood. it's something that has sort of fallen down a little bit, but it's still there. >> yeah. that's the piece of this is that -- i think the mayor addressed this, which is there's a powder keg sitting there. it takes one spark to light it. when you have this deep seated pessimism -- >> it goes back generations. >> right. this polling -- it's not new. >> it's not new. >> if we asked this before -- i have seen polling, asked in 2009, same numbers. this is still sitting there. it's not going away. it was the same number we saw after the riots in rodney king. >> the question now is what do you do? what are some of the reform measures? that's what we are going to talk about. a discussion of the future of policing in america. what needs to be done to restore this trust gap between african-americans and law enforcement.

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so reforms. welcome back, we put together an expert group to talk about what needs to be done to reform policing and the justice system in this country. i'm joined by an array of people here. cyrus vance, jr., the manhattan district attorney. michael nutter. chuck canterbury of the

fraternal order of police and charles ramsey, the philadelphia police commissioner who was appointed by the president to cochair the task force on 21st century policing. mr. ramsey, let me start with you. your mandate from the president, what do you believe you have to accomplish to show that one of these task forces can be more than just talk? >> well, first let me say that the president is very serious about this issue. that's why he put together the task force as part of other initiatives that he has going on right now. we have 90 days to come up with some concrete recommendations to the president on how we can have change, positive change in policing starting with establishing trust. i was listening to comments earlier in your program. it's very troubling that people do not believe there's fairness in a way in which we police, in a way in which cases are reviewed by prosecutors on and on and on. we have to change that dynamic.

we have to take a look at our training, and more importantly the education that we provide to officers so they better understand the role of police in a democratic society. those are the kinds of things we will focus on as well as use of force and technology. >> let me go to -- you represent rank and file police officers, the beat cop. >> that's right. >> the reforms. what do you want to see the president's task force tackle if you were asked to be on the task force, what would you say? let's not indict all police officers here. but this is what i think the police need. >> first of all, we believe that the existing judicial system works. the grand jury system and police review boards in certain cities have shown some promise.

the bottom line is, rank and file police officers have always wanted more training. and welcome that training. i don't believe that -- under current economic times with the huge reduction in law enforcement around this country that training has kept up. i also don't believe that there's a systemic problem in law enforcement. the media and others have taken a couple of incidents -- there are 14 million arrests in this country every year. we have less than 300 police officers that have been indicted for excessive force since 2009. >> but there's a trust gap. >> absolutely. but it takes a holistic approach. it's not just law enforcement's problem. the common denominator is poverty. in every country in the world where there's an economic problem you have a higher -- >> you have a -- >> people send us in to deal with the problems. >> mr. vance, another issue here has to do with the relationship between district attorneys and

police officers. can district attorneys fairly assess a police officer who is under suspicion, in this case with the police officer in staten island, of potentially having committed a crime? can a d.a. fairly prosecute that case in front of a grand jury? >> thank you for having me. and i would like to extend my condolences to mrs. garner and her family for their loss. in answer to your question, chuck, police officers and prosecutors need to be collaborative but not cozy. we have a responsibility as district attorneys to investigate and where appropriate prosecute police officers. during my five years in the d.a.'s office we have prosecuted approximately 16 or 17 police officers for cases from lying to perjury to rape. we have to work together. but i think the moment that we have is something that we should not lose the opportunity. there is much more we can do that is better in terms of both policing and in terms of prosecutes or being more transparent. in our office -- i think we need

to be self-reflective and understand, do we have problems? >> should your office not handle a police officer indictment? should it be a justice department, state office that handles this? >> i'm completely open to discussing what kind of special prosecutor program might be instituted. be aware for what you ask for. special prosecutors who have been appointed in the past are accountable to no one. when you are not accountable to anyone as a d.a. is to the electorate, you are likely to get -- ken starr can go off for years expending millions in public dollars without result. >> mayor nutter, there's i think another debate here. a conservative columnist openly wondered, is it time to move on from the broken windows style of policing? broken window style of policing was back during the '90s. this is what he wrote. the meaning is that maybe the way to police petty crimes should change. do you believe that?

>> i think one of the reasons mr. ramsey was picked, it's 21st century policing. i don't think we want to completely get away from allowing people to do some set of random things on a regular basis and just say, we're willing to accept that level of crime. but then all of a sudden -- where do you draw the line? what's the threshold? at some point wrong is wrong. >> you as a mayor, you can't accept any level of crime? is that your mindset? >> you can never accept criminal activity. but there are gradations. we go back to training and experience and what's in the officer's mind and perceptions and any amount of bias that any of us bring to our jobs. we have seen now two incidents -- two of the worst

weeks in american history in recent times. >> for law enforcement. >> what are the joining factors? two large black men are dead as a result of engagement with the police. we have to look at what else is going on with the officers? what are they thinking about? what are some of their fears? what are community fears? you have the citizens who want to be protected who are now increasingly afraid of the police. you have police officers who are increasingly afraid of the community. there is a large gap in that context. so it is about training. people need the police to protect them.

i support my police officers back in philadelphia. this is a dangerous job. they interact -- >> there's no such thing as a routine traffic stop. >> routine traffic stops can turn into really bad things. >> absolutely. there's no such thing as anything routine in law enforcement. >> quickly, mr. ramsey, how do you keep bias out of the philadelphia police force? >> everybody has bias. let me comment on that -- the notion that we need to get away from broken windows policing. i think we can do both. one of my deputies mentioned something at a staff meeting the other day. there's been a lot of research in policing about effectiveness of strategies, hot spot policing, foot patrols. but very little, if any, on the after affects of such strategies in terms of alienation of

communities. that's what we -- we have to take a look at. what's the collateral damage that's caused when we engage in certain policing strategies? if we know that and understand it, we can avoid it. so i think you can do both effectively. but we have to be able to deal with a range of issues from simple disorder type things to serious crime. >> mr. vance -- >> as far as bias goes, fair and impartial policing and education of police officers in that regard. >> this has to be the last comment. you have done a lot of research in bias. >> recognizing prosecutors have to be aware of what may be in their own office, we brought a nonpartisan criminal justice think tank in to evaluate our practices in plea bargaining, charging and bail to determine whether there was racial bias present. that's a sensible thing for a prosecutor's office to do, particularly in metropolitan areas. >> this is a conversation that could continue for hours. do you think washington politicians don't understand how big your concerns are? it might be because of how big their wallets are. wait until you see these statistics.

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add one more senator to the republican column. bill cassidy defeated mary landrieu in louisiana. as expected, yesterday's runoff election wasn't even close with cassidy taking 56% of the vote. republicans now have 54 seats in the senate. it also will be the first time in 138 years that a democrat hasn't represented louisiana in the u.s. senate. republicans also held a house seat in louisiana. if the party holds in a recount in arizona, this is going to mean that the gop has their

largest house majority since the hoover administration. it means by the way that the 114th congress will contain 53 senators who had previously served in the house of representatives, that's more than any congress since 1899, before the direct election of senators. critics argue this means this is the housification of the senate. they think it increases polarization of the most deliberative body of the worldment eed. eed. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion successful deliveries last year. 15 billion! football has a season. baseball has a season. this is our season. i have $40,ney do you have in your pocket right now? $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time,

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the softness in our comfort cushions. plus charmin ultra soft is so much more absorbent you can use up to four times less. what are you boys looking at? my main squeeze. rotorooter approved. charmin is clog-free or it's free. it's about congress and wealth. a majority of americans think members of congress are out of touch with average citizens. 81% according to the most recent survey. in fact, average americans don't think members of congress understand their needs or concerns and that members of

congress are too beholden to special interests. here is a big reason why our representatives here in washington appear to have a hard time relating to most of you. it starts with a massive wealth gap. let's look at the numbers. members of congress make a lot more money than the average american. typical average income $54,000. annual salary for each member of congress, nearly $175,000. there's times as much. by the way, that's not household income. this doesn't include spousal income. you include that, it's higher. not surprisingly, members of congress are also doing better than average americans when it comes to seeing their wealth growth. net worth grew just under 4% from 2004 to 2012. in that same period of time, members of congress saw their income increase at a 15% clip annually. the result, by 2013, the average 55 to 64-year-old, that's the average age of a member of congress, had a net worth of just over $165,000. that includes real estate holdings. the average net worth for a member of congress, just over a million dollars. that does not include real estate holdings.

they don't have to report that on their forms. if they did, that number would even be higher. all of which makes this next figure not so surprising after you see all these numbers. that is, millionaire households. overall, nearly 6% of households in america are millionaires. that number is up, by the way, members of congress, over half of them, there are 535 of them, over happen of them are millionaires. you wonder why the economy, income inequality, all of these issues, you don't feel like congress understands the urgency of it. this is all you need to know. half of them are millionaires. we will be right back.

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welcome back. welcome back. last month when president obama announced his executive action to allow 5 million undocumented immigrants to legally stay in the country, republicans spoke with one voice and accused the president of abusing his power, overstepping his authority. when it comes to stopping president obama or rolling it back, there are very real divisions among key figures within the gop. as our luke russert has been finding out all week. >> just about every republican candidate in the country campaigned saying if you elect us, we will stop president obama's amnesty. do what you said you would do. >> this week the specter of a set shutdown sequel.

channelling distrust many have an immigration. >> some will say, vote to fund it for now and then we will have reinforcements from the senate next year. >> despite the heated rhetoric republicans say the government will stay open. after a largely symbolic vote this week chastising the president for his executive action, they will pass a funding bill with democratic help. they say the gop will bring up immigration legislation in the new year. >> there is no one in republican leadership elected officials that said we should deport 13 million people. even in our wildest dream would not be to remove any person that might be here unless they were dangerous to this country and did not -- and committed a crime. >> but republicans have been punished by the right. marco rubio got beat up on talk

radio when he campaigned for the senate bill last year. >> leaving things the way they are, that's the real amnesty. >> his approval dropped among conservatives and he withdrew support for comprehensive reform. in january, house republican leaders tried to steesh their own conference toward a bill. >> the plan you will push will have a pathway to legalization but not citizenship. is that how you understand it? >> that's right. it also involved a probationary status to make sure that a person is not rewarded for having broken our laws. >> that quickly broke down. with conservatives crying amnesty. also, rank and file republicans were apprehensive about voting on issue after it played a role in canter's defeat in june. boehner griped about how hard it is to corral his members. >> here is the attitude. don't make me do this. this is too hard. >> gop leaders in congress are poised to win this fight with conservatives. as republican governors soon to challenge the action, the party

faces the same long-term immigration problem it did 18 months ago. >> if we don't pass immigration reform, if we don't get it off the table in a reasonable, practical way, it doesn't matter who you run in 2016. we are in a demographic death spiral as a party. >> for "meet the press," luke russert. >> joining me now is the next governor of texas and the current attorney general, greg abbott. thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> my honor. thanks. >> let's start with the lawsuit. standing requires you to show harm. you argue the president's actions are going to inspire a fresh wave of illegal immigration, that that's the harm you will show. we have seen other attempts at this before where courts have thrown out lawsuits like this because you can't quantify the harm. this is going much the same way that the lawsuit concern obamacare grew from 13 to 27 states. as to the standing issue,

understand this, texas has been at the epicenter of the 2012 daca. you saw more than 1,000 people crossing the border every day. texas has come out more than $100 million in law enforcement, education and healthcare because of what has happened. and understand this, the president's agencies memos have indicated there will be more problems like this resulting from the next presidential order or the most recent presidential order. >> many of those -- the children that came across in the wave -- i understand there's people that say that wave was started and some people believe it was inspired by the order on children that were brought here by parents illegally. but a lot of those folks were

deported. most of those folks were deported. >> as we speak right now, some of those children are in texas schools. some of the people who came here across the border are accessing healthcare. >> most were deported? >> i don't know the raw number. all i do know is the absolute fact, and that is texas has incurred taxpayer dollars out of pocket as a result of the prior executive order. it has been stated by members of the obama administration that this new executive order will lead to the same results. >> when we talk about harm, i want to get into this financial issue. you talk about the issue of social services, how much money you have to spend to deal with these undocumented folks. illegal immigrants that are working in texas provide an -- do participate in the economy. there have been some estimates if you deported everybody who was in texas illegally, it would actually be an economic -- it would create an economic recession for the state of texas. how do you separate those facts?

>> because we're not suing for that economic harm. it's the way that texas has been impacted that gives us standing. what we're suing for is actually the greater harm, and that is harm to the constitution by empowering the president of the united states to enact legislation on his own without going through congress. >> i want to play for you a clip that you have heard from a previous governor from texas and what he said about immigration. here it is. >> i want to remind people that family values do not stop at the rio grande river. people are coming to our river -- country to do jobs that americans won't do to feed their families. i think there's a humane way to recognize that at the same time protect our borders and at the same way to make sure that we don't disadvantage those who have stood in line for years to become a legal citizen. >> do you agree with that statement? >> well, in a way i understand this even more powerfully, because my wife is going to be the first hispanic first lady in the history of texas. texas has had a long tradition of uniting the hispanic culture with texas values. remember this.

there's a reason why people come from across the world to the united states. that is because of the power of what the constitution has enabled this country to be. it's the constitution itself that is under assault by the president of the united states by this executive order. chuck, what we are doing is -- this issue in this lawsuit is not about immigration. the issue in this lawsuit is about abuse of executive power. if this abuse is not stopped, it will erode the constitution. >> let me ask a basic question. illegal immigration, good or bad for the state of texas? bottom line. >> legal immigration is great for the united states of america. any illegal activity is not good anywhere. >> yet it's been good for the

texas economy, right? >> legal immigration has been great for america. if bringing more immigrants here is the appropriate thing to do, then what congress needs to do and what the president needs to do is to figure out a way to improve our immigration system. in fact, americans are tired of both congress and the president failing to act. it's time for washington, d.c. to stop talking about this and take action. and that begins with securing our border. >> let me ask you on securing the border, define that. can you give me a metric that says, border security? >> sure. i have been involved in these border surge operations where we see people crossing the border. securing the border means ensuring that you don't have people who are crossing the border illegally. that is through modern technology, through the

technology that we are deploying right now, you can have monitors and cameras and see whether or not people are crossing the border. you want to see that grow to zero would be the perfect metric. congress has the power -- >> is that realistic? >> congress has the power and the resources to decide whether or not that will be 0 or 15% or 20%. >> rick perry, ted cruz, two texas officials running for president. rand paul, born in texas. jeb bush, his son is serving in texas. do you have a favorite? >> i will be strongly supportive of the republican nominee to be the next president of the united states. >> you are staying out of the primary totally? >> i'm staying out of the primary. >> all right, greg abbott, we will watch you when you are governor of texas. thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you. here is a map of the 20 states. rick, the governor of texas told me that he has filed a preliminary -- to try to get a preliminary injunction if you believe harm is done. you want the law not enacted until you get your day in court. how should congressional republicans be responding? >> listen, it's a complicated issue. i come from immigrant grandparents. country would not be what it is if it wasn't for the immigrants

in this country. the border, it's important to conservatives. i understand that. outsource it to google. we can work through this problem. why do -- >> you do a technology thing? >> absolutely. why do we need this comprehensive plan? have we not learned anything from the failed rollout of the affordable care act. you pass small pieces. show people they can actually get things through. if the senate or the president decides that they don't like them or they veto them, at least we see. when they call the vote congress took symbolic, before social media, everything was symbolic. now they don't take a vote unless it's absolutely assured it's going to pass? i don't understand that. people need to know how the representatives are thinking and what they are doing, whether it's symbolic or not. >> would the house republicans be in a better place had they passed something as rick just said, passed even a piecemeal -- they didn't pass piecemeal. >> or have a plan that's been leaked about what a piecemeal

plan would look like. >> not in two years. >> not in two years. look, i think here is the opportunity now, if you are john boehner to do something in the next congress. they were able to vent their frustration about the president. now let's see what they have done. here is the problem with the house. at the end of the day, the house does not look like the country. house republicans -- >> who sent them there. >> that's right. the average house republican district is 75% white. >> who does districting? there's rules for this. you can't tear up the rule books. >> every state applies the rules. >> talk about the electoral college. >> i'm going to pause it here. speaking of today. it's december 7. it's pearl harbor day. this is the 73rd anniversary of the japanese attack. it's a day that president roosevelt said would live in infamy. four of the nine remaining survivors of the attacken on the u.s.s. arizona are gathering today in honolulu for what is due to be their last official

reunion. though they vowed this won't be the last time they will meet. if you have been -- i have been to the memorial. when you see the oil that comes up from the arizona, it's like seeing the ghost of the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives. don't go anywhere. we'll be back in 30 seconds. this is the equivalent of the sugar in one regular soda. and this is one soda a day over an average adult lifetime. but there's a better choice. drink more brita water. clean, refreshing, brita.

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uplifting, more positive, more willing to, you know -- to be practical now in washington world, lose the primary to win the general without violating your principles. >> you need people starting in your family but going to your friends, beyond a larger circle, who will really be there for you and continue to treat you like a human being. because you can easily lose touch with, you know, what's real, what's authentic. >> both jeb and hillary, a little unplugged. i thought it was interesting in both of them were trying to -- trying to show there's some authenticity, trying to show they're not totally trying to play a political game here. >> i think jeb has less of a problem with that than hillary. she has had troubles with this issue of does she understand what it's like to be a real

person? >> 22 years, she hasn't walked alone. that's not her fault. she's is secret service protection for 22 years. that's tough. >> she's had a couple bad gaffs. i think she's trying to acknowledge that she's got the problems and take it head on, which is smart on her part. i think jeb is looking at the reality that the notion is that he can't win the primary because he's too nice and too affable and isn't going to go bang on democrats the way conservatives will. that's what they're both trying to look at. >> you ready for hillary? >> we're going to know what's going to happen base upon what they do on immigration and the budget. if boehner and mcconnell get deals on immigration and the budget and don't let the government get shut down we'll have a real race in '16. i'm ready for hillary. >> what do you think about jeb bush's authenticity. he's saying, i'm not going -- i'm going to stay who i am. you may not agree with me. you don't agree with me on immigration and common core, but i'm not going to placate you on

those issues. >> immigration, very important. common core, i would like to think that the republicans would have loftier issues than they would concentrate on. >> well, by the way, i have you here, the economy. i'm going to get a ton of e-mails today. great news on the economy and you haven't done anything given president obama praise. what say you on the economy? >> it's great improvement. we have come a long way. remember, let's not get too happy about six-year cured for two-year flus. we have been long out of the recession. people aren't cheering. we had a good wage growth in the number. >> that's what makes that legit. right? >> hospitality and leisure the most hiring but they represent the smallest percentage of wage growth. that's the problem. you talk about the wealth in congress. there's a lot of wealth in d.c.

there's not a lot of wealth throughout the country shared equally. >> we have inequality. >> 10 million jobs ain't enough. >> by the way -- >> what's enough is when people who need it the most when we look at the issues -- >> but we got to talk about 321,000 jobs. >> that's despite most government policy, not because of it. >> that's what you say now. >> you weren't saying that when george bush was president. >> i've said it all along. >> i have a football break for you. i want to talk some about some absurdity about what i think will happen when we find out about the college football playoff. we have a playoff. but think about how that would play out if they applied the same logic that they will use to find out who the final four is if we did it for presidential race. okay, you get to decide the party's nominee. we have primaries to tell you the scores of games that took place. but you can take those primaries into consideration and you get

to decide who the nominees are. is that a fair process? >> isn't that how they did it in the old days? smoke-filled room. >> you comfortable with this? >> that's how college football does everything. >> it's as if we held our presidential race and had 538 people in the electoral college decide -- wait a minute. that's what we have. anyway. i think this -- let me hope if they lead out an undefeated team, wins should matter more than data, right? >> a lot of teams that this applies to in the past. change the rules. >> i hear you. college football, we talk about changing the rules, they change the rules every year. >> chuck is on a mission. >> i am. too much data. who cares about who controls the game. i want to know who wins the game. thank you. that's all for today. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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