it's unlikely he'll get grilled since the u.s. has already taken action without approval. impose higher tacks on internet on internet sales. "morning joe" starts right now! ♪ >> i got a suggestion that might kill two stones with one keystone. this one is free. you can use this. we don't build it down louisiana we take it over the canadian border, build the big pipe over to mexican border and with a sign that says mucho jobs. then spend up in canada and the canadians are too polite to kick them out and that's your immigration policy. that's free. >> that sound like a ridiculous

idea. but that's why you're where you are and where i am. >> yeah. good morning. it's tuesday, december the 9th. great to have you with us on set as former communications director for george w. bush. co-host for "the view" like a hundredth of a century. former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national committee howard dean. in d.c. we have columnist for bloomberg view al hunt. a lot to talk about today. first of all, though, i guess bill karins let me bring you in here. some lousy weather out there. it's cold. it's wet. there's a nor'easter coming. not a lot of fun. >> no. i'll take a snowstorm over any of these days. one of those days it's a raw, cold, goes down the bones. as far as the travel delays will go the worst will be during the

daylight hours today. the nor'easter has formed off of the virginia coast, heavy torrential rains all the way up along the jersey shore into southern england. i heard of reports of accidents in areas of southern connecticut, areas of interior pennsylvania and northwestern new jersey with icy roads and now the hudson valley. be careful in driving in those spots. it will change the rain eventually but icy right now. coastal flooding large waves are battering the jersey shore and long island. winds are gusting between 20240 miles per hour. high tide cycle early. we'll add another about two to three inches of rain to what we've already seen by the time it's all said and done. icy stuff all of northern new england will get ice or snow or a combination. heaviest snow totals up around burlington, vermont area northern portions of new england

but also areas around syracuse, binghampton down to scranton we can pick up a heavy wet six to scene inches of snow, heart attack snow. traveling at the airport, new york city airports significant delays all day during the daylight hours. boston, this afternoon and evening. if you're traveling out of d.c. or baltimore or even philadelphia, i don't think it will be too bad as we go throughout the morning. >> thank you. terrible weather. nicole, you're a big lebron fan. right. did you see what he did last night? wore the shirt. and let's take a look at lebron james last night. wearing the "i can't breathe" which was captured on videotape with the staten island police officers were choking eric garner on the way to killing him. and what did you think of that?

>> you know, i think -- i was here that week after this case and i remember we all watched the video and we all saw the same thing. i think this protest is different in my mind than the rams protest hands up don't shoot. >> because we actually caught this on video, and that -- also the hands up don't shoot deal we don't know whether that's the truth or not. >> certainly in conflict with the grand jury. >> yeah. you got a he said/she said. last night there were certain cable news hosts talking about a conservative freak out over that. i just like facts before accusing white police officers of shooting black men with their hands up in the air. so you want to have the facts straight. like, for instance, like a liberal freak out over chris christie, where they did stories for eight months straight every night for an hour and then they were strangely quiet after the democratic legislator -- a

conspiracy. that's a liberal freak out not based on facts. there were some conservatives and a lot of liberals also concerned about accusing white police officers of shooting people with their hands up in the air. but in this case we got it on video. it's appropriate, is it not? >> of course it is. listen, i respect all professional athletesing right to use their power and their moment in the spotlight to advocate things they believe in. i believe lebron feels this. >> howard, if i were -- i can imagine if i were a black man or more importantly if i were the mom of a young black man, i would be wearing t-shirts like this or buttons like that. it's only appropriate for him to do that, right? >> the issue here is not just eric garner, the issue is we have a problem in this country where black kids are likely to

be shot by white police officers about ten times more than white kids are. this is clearly a problem. it's way beyond what happened in ferguson or what happened in staten island. those are the particular things that set this off. we have to deal with this. there's an issue -- >> but you're okay with lebron -- >> of course. >> would you be okay if somebody went out and said abortion is murder if they felt strongly about that on their t-shirt. >> of course not. really? >> that's what i'm asking. i respect the right for him to do that but tonight if somebody wants to go in with a t-shirt and says abortion is murder, would that be okay? >> i feel like our political correctness cup runneth over. of course it wouldn't. >> i'm sure the nba, willie, if they are allowing political statements, i support lebron doing that and i believe it needs to be done.

i mean this is -- this is an issue that needs to be discussed. but i certainly hope if somebody comes out with a political statement that people aren't opposed to the commissioner is ready to let them do that. >> it's an interesting question because adam silver the league commissioner was asked about these t-shirts after the game and he said i certainly prefer they abide by our on court attire rules but most people around him if you read through the reports don't think anybody will be fined over this. >> it's not exactly the same analogy. the abortion question is a question we've been debating for 50 years. people have strong feelings about it. >> if you're a young black man in america you've been dealing with this for 350 years. >> this is an issue -- >> you can't explain it away. if you're is going to allow a political statement on one side you got to allow a political side on the other side. >> this isn't about allowing the statement, it's a different kind of debate. >> how is that >> because the question of what happens with white police

officers and black men, that's not a debatable problem. it is a problem. >> right. >> people need to fix it. people have different ideas how to fix it. that's a national issue that the survival of the country depends on. >> right. >> solidly. >> but your point is about speech. >> my point is about speech. also whether you're talking about abortion or guns or any viewpoint that may be unpopular to, let's say, certain segments of this society. if you're going to allow that statement, which let me say again i support, you have to also allow statements that may be more offensive or not as politically correct. >> in the moment. >> in the future. i'm just saying the nba -- so i thought that was fascinating. again i'm glad he did it. it's nice to see somebody with that much power and that much influence doing more than buying mansions or being -- this is

actually something where a guy is taking a chance. again -- >> is he? everybody agrees -- see to me this is different. i think that the rams players took a chance. that is still a divisive question about ferguson. i don't know that there's any debate in this country about eric garner. is there? >> unfortunately there is. with some police unions. >> we have to say about lebron he spoke out publicly about trayvon, spoke out publicly about ferguson, spoke out publicly about garner. there's many nba stars in the past who wouldn't touch this because it would hurt sneaker sales. >> i talked about abortion, what if somebody like charles barclay said something like looters are scumbag. say charles barclay on the other side of things. anyway -- by the way, he agrees with garner too.

>> not a divisive case. >> let's get to news. an explosive and often delayed report is going to be released today on the cia's use of enhanced interrogation techniques. american positions abroad are preparing for blow back. it explicitly details interrogation details in 20 case during the bush administration in the wake of the september 11th attacks. i want questions the value of the information obtained. officials said the united states has gained key intelligence. the document reportedly concludes the cia often misled the white house, congress and the american public in detailing their operations. at this point i feel compelled to tell you it's a democratic written report. they are letting you want before republicans get the majority. the republicans disagree with this. and most of the people that run the central intelligence agency disagree with this as well. including leon panetta.

acclaimed former vice president dick cheney characterized it as crock. the president says the white house supports the release of the report. but his chief of staff and cia have been trying limit its scope. there's a lot of back and forth on this, al hunt. diane feinstein not happy at all when the white house got involved and redacted more than she wanted redabted. >> it has been. it's going controversial when it comes out today. my suspicion is it's going to be more embarrassing than it is dangerous. diane feinstein is not known as a harsh cia critic. i'm not sure what particulars will be redacted but some of this stuff, for instance they will be upset because there were sites that were identified. european court has cited them. i'm not sure that the damage will be anything like the critics i think cheney charged.

>> the question is, howard dean whether there's going to be much new information out in this report that hasn't already been leaked out. >> here's why the report is a big deal. we purport in this country to be a moral beacon and our standard of behavior has to be higher than the people who we're preaching to. >> it is. >> we'll find out. >> i'm trying to be careful. >> let's find out. >> our standard is higher than al qaeda. our standard is higher than isis. >> i'm not talking about al qaeda. >> our standard is the higher than most other countries on the la net. >> the issue is our standard more higher than what goes on in iraq. you know, what are we doing here? >> what are we doing? >> what are we doing? >> is that a question? >> what i want to know is what the hell are we doing? are we doing the same things that we're telling dictators not to do? if that's the case then we taught change. >> no, we're not.

>> this is like the nsa scandal. i agree this will be mostly embarrassing. american people need to know what the hell the government is doing. >> i can tell them. we water boarded three people back last one was water boarded in 2003. three people. and there's debate on whether that is actually intelligence or not. >> did they decapitate people with a knife? you just said -- you just said we're a beacon, a moral beacon. in the history of this country, i think months after 9/11 there were three people who we thought knew about the attacks and we did whatever we have to do. i pray to god that until the end of time we do whatever we have to do to find out what's happening. the notion that this somehow makes america less great is assinine and dangerous. i never felt more frustrated

with this white house's ability to speak clearly than i was yesterday when john karl was pushing josh earnest to say whether obama found the information gleaned helpful in killing bin laden. you watched that exchange. that's what this is about. does this help us kill people who want to kill us regardless of what we do. the notion that what we do affects terrorists is a lie. it's perpetrated by political correctness and liberals. >> that's not true. >> you can't win me over and i won win you over. >> here's the problem. the problem is not did we water board three people, the problem is what about the prisons in possible lad what the eu is upset about. what about supporting right-wing groups that killed hundreds of thousands. >> what else did we do to make sure 3,000 people were not obliterated on a new york city morning. what else do we do? >> people in guatemala were not a threat to the united states.

we killed 200,000 by supporting the general. this is a pattern in the u.s. >> it's a belief about whether what we do is from a place of morality. >> my point is it isn't always and let's find out if this is or not. >> you just said you know everything. this isn't about finding out. i think all the reasons that liberals give are lies and this is about doing whatever it takes. this will divide the country in the next presidential election. >> this is about what kind of a country we have and what kind of human beings we are. >> we already know. >> all i want out of this report i want the american people to decide for themselves whether this is a good idea or not not some closed government that keeps this stuff secret. >> president obama used this information and refuses to say whether it was helpful or not. that's my point. this is politics. >> people have a right to know what its government does.

>> so, the classified information that will come out eventually clearly shows that what mohamed told his interrogators led to very actionable intelligence and if americans are offended by the three people that were water boarded, and sleep deprivation and these other things they can talk about that. what history will not debate is whether the intelligence was actionable or not. so, i think, howard, it's also a different way of looking at this country. and understanding that sometimes this country makes mistakes. i'm horrified in the comfort of 2014 every time i read about the dresden fire bombing where we incinerated 200,000 germans unnecessarily. i'm offended by so many things that i read. you wonder whether it was necessary to drop two atomic bombs.

i sit and wonder how could fdr have interned over 100,000 japanese-americans that were loyal patriots. how could woodrow wilson do what he had done. you and i come at it perhaps from different viewpoints. i think what fdr did, what woodrow wilson did, what george w. bush did, and i think what barack obama is doing, and i'm offended by the massive uptick of drones since 2009 and concerned about the nsa program. but i don't think barack obama, i don't think george w. bush, i don't think fdr are horrible human beings. i think like lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the middle of the civil war were doing what they thought would protect the most americans. >> the simple case i'm making is the american people taught be the judges of that in a democracy not secret government report.

>> identify been waiting for americans to be offended by the uptick in drone attacks and the nsa and they aren't. you and i -- >> i happen to support the president's drone program. >> you do? >> i do. >> you support dropping drones on households killing 18 or 19 people to find one bad guy. >> that's not what the policy is. >> killing 5-year-old girls. >> that's not the policy. >> that's the effect of the policy. >> that's at that gross exaggeration. >> you're between the ages of 18 and 35 and within the vicinity of a suspected terrorist then you're presumed a terrorist and they drop a drone and kill you. by the way, they kill americans.

and by the way, they kill the sons -- >> it's true. >> i know exact leadership how it works and here you find yourself -- this is a teachable moment, howard, defending a drone program that a lot of people are deeply offended by. i don't this you're evil, i don't think you hate america, i don't think you under mine the values of america but i disagree with you in the same way you disagree with the water boarding of three people. >> joe, let me -- i repeat what i said. >> i love your sweater. >> you said you respected how i felt. we've done it here. >> the point is in a democracy the american people get to judge about these things we're debating about. we can debate all we want. that's fine. in a democracy ultimately the american people are the boss. we need to know hat the cia is doing, we need to find out if the nsa is spying on all of us. then we can decide. i have no problem with the nsa spying on me.

that's a worthwhile trade off for my security but i ought to know because we're all supposedly the boss not a group of people in washington. >> i guess my part is we started the conversation by saying we know everything. that was my only point. we started the conversation by saying we know about poland, we know three people -- >> my point is that the american people support these type of activities. kind of where you are. i'm not quite where you are. i know howard is not. but whatever it takes. keep the country safe. you can look whether it's a drone policy, whether it's nsa. at the end of the day keep us safe. >> one thing maybe we can all agree on is today you'll see a group of senators when the report comes out calling foul how they can believe america was doing this. same senators who were briefed a decade and a half ago and knew everything. today in 2014 they will be saying oh, my gosh i can't believe america did this. >> hillary clinton was briefed.

>> that's the most offensive thing. i've said this quite a lot over the past several years because i've known people involved who did what the country asked them to do, did what their president asked them to do, did what their vice president asked them to do, they briefed nancy pelosi. they briefed -- diane feinstein wasn't on the intel committee. they briefed jay rockefeller. they briefed conservatives and liberals and everybody said in 2002, okay. yeah, okay. some even asked is this all you can do? and then dana priest wrote an article in 2005 for "the washington post" and suddenly all ran out of the intel committee with their hair on fire oh, i can believe this happened. that is the most offensive thing, willingy. guess what happened to these americans that did what republicans and democrats and the attorney general, guess what they had to do?

hire lawyers. they don't have that much money. they lost their jobs. it's despicable what happened to them. i hope the senators and congressman that were there and getting briefed and were all for it show a little bit of class today. >> what do you think? >> we'll circle back to lebron. show as much class as lebron. coming up on "morning joe," hill question john kerry about the use of force against isis. senator tim kaine will join the conversation. and angus king will weigh in on the impending release of the cia report and he's going debate howard dean on why maine is a better state, new england state than vermont. plus we'll be going live to l.a. for new details on that damaging hack story of sony studios. that keeps getting bigger. here in new york how manhattan's

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♪ time to take a look at the morning papers. we start with reuters. one al qaeda leader is condemning the beheadings carried out by isis as unislamic. of course you want to follow al qaeda's view of the crime. the senior commander from an al qaeda branch in yemen said in a twitter video quote, prophet mohamed has ordered to us be kind in everything, even in killing and is not part of kindness to film beheadings and slayings and publish them in public where sons and daughters of those killed can see. >> yemen al qaeda leader on high horse is your headline there.

the "new york times", the university of virginia says it will not lift the ban on fraternities after rolling stone back tracked on its story of an alleged gang rape at a fraternity house there. greek organizations are calling for their activities ban to end. a ban imposed in the wake of that explosive story. in a letter to parents the university president said the ban will remain in effect until january 9th. and she's moving forward with a series of changes to address sexual assault on campus. including increased police presence, unarmed security guards called ambassadors. two groups will be formed one to main what changes are needed -- >> nicole there's a problem there anyway, right? we heard there's a problem anyway even if her story is not 100% right? >> all college campus have to be vigilante. i went to berkeley. there were alarm buttons and security guards that would walk men and women home from the library. >> which i needed because women were always coming up

attacking -- wait no they western. i never went to the library. so that's kind of advance. berkeley was ahead. >> a lot of urban campuses, columbia is like that, bernard probably similar sorts -- >> so much of this, people are waking up to what has been acceptable for a very long time is just not acceptable now. >> it's dangerous to say sexual assault is acceptable. >> there's a boys will be boys like drunk frat house -- listen i'm just speaking -- >> one of the effects of social media you don't get away with much when you're college age. >> the 1983, 1984, 1985 -- >> way back then. >> if there was twitter back then or in the '60s or '70s, social media, i'm just saying you would have seen some pretty bad behavior coming out. >> it's a subject -- >> on a lot of college campuses. >> culture reflects reality.

we have the animal house legacy. this is a rare example of where twitter and social media makes things better. >> "los angeles times," from the "los angeles times" an apartment complex under construction in los angeles burst into flames that could be seen for miles monday. turning the traffic into 0 a stan still. it consumed an unoccupied seven story building. shutting down two freeways. 200 firefighters fought the blaze and no reports of injuries. they were trying to determine if there was foul play. police say fires of that magnitude are investigated for criminal intent and add it's suspicious for a building of that size to be engulfed all at once. >> the hill, embattled health care jonathan gruber will face a grilling from the house oversight committee. he'll testify before the republican controlled panel to

sflan his comments about the stupidity of american voters. one republican aide said the hearing is quote all about giving him the opportunity to say something stupid. it's going to be a lot of fun. >> if you're him why your going to capitol hill? >> you like attention. where do you go around saying american people are stupid. >> you can't take it back. >> i wonder if valerie jarrett didn't call and say you're not coming to capitol hill. and he said i'm coming anyway. do you think the white house would have gotten to him first. >> you would have thought the white house doesn't want him there. >> there's a mobile app to provide drivers with a digital copy of their license. i want will help protect identities and each user will have their own secure pin. iowa is one of 30 states to allow drivers to show electronic proof of insurance during a traffic stop. the app will roll out next year at no extra cost to residents.

>> i would be afraid to forward it to the wrong person. >> i lose everything. >> that's like when they say do you have your social security card? >> who has their social security card. or birth certificate. >> look at that. where do you keep it? >> in my wallet. >> oh, my lord. you're my dad. who does that these days? we found one. coming up are the democrats skreptly gentlemen allow of the tea party and can they launch one of their own. that story and new polling from bloomberg politics straight ahead.

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welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle joins the table. and willie, let's do the must reads. >> let's go to the bloomberg poll first. second round of poll numbers. this time to see how voters feel about presidential leadership, the direction of the nation. the president upside down across the board. biggest negatives come on the budget deficit and his inability

to nobody with the republicans. more than six out of ten americans say things have gotten off the wrong track. >> al hunt, those numbers not healthy. do they matter at this point? >> well, yeah they matter because the president hopes to have at least a teeny bit of leverage. when you're below 45% in approval rating that's a sign of trouble. he's below 40%. the only silver lining for obama here is that there is a sense in this bloomberg politics poll that people understand the economy is getting better, feeling better about it. his ratings still not good on the economy are better than a couple of months ago. >> what's happened? i go back to denver. i see mike murphy watching his acceptance speech and turning around and saying houston we have problems talking to republicans. you look at the 2004 boston convention we're not a red state america, blue state america, we're one. >> can you imagine the number of

times president obama has asked himself that same question what's happened? >> you just wonder. >> there was such hope, and -- >> it's not over. it's the fourth quarter now. i've seen a lot of teams come back in the fourth quarter. but how has he fallen below 40%. who would have ever imagined that. >> don't up get a sense though a big part of him probably figures i don't care that i'm below 40%. i have two years left. >> i got that sense in 2011. >> but he's also got to be thinking here's what we're confronted with. in addition to all the problems we know about the economy, fighting a couple of wars in a raging inferno of section of the world in middle east and afghanistan, and he also knows that when he came in the senate minority leader then mitch mcconnell said our goal number one is not to allow this presidency to succeed. >> but, mike, do you think he feels at all responsible for that number?

>> no. >> let me ask you that. >> he doesn't feel responsible. >> do you think they feel any culpability in the way that poll shows americans sentiment. >> yes, i do a little bit. >> do you think the president? not the president. i remember cringing when george w. bush was asked if he made any mistakes the first term. and he said he couldn't think of one. and i cringed. i think we're six years, seven years in, i think the president lives in a world that allows him to think that it's all the republicans fault. >> would you think he feels any culpability for those numbers? >> well, i do think -- i can't say it's all the republicans fault but mike is right they did set out to undo him. here's what i suspect. what i suspect that's going on this president is taking the long view. he's not up for re-election again. he knows if you know anything about history presidents get

judged 15, 20 years after they leave based on what they got done that really mattered. you don't know that until somebody has been out of office for a hong time. i hated it when lyndon johnson and now i believe he's one of the greatest presidents. >> these are critical things about ronald reagan and you think he's one of the greatest%. >> i don't. but i've come around on ronald reagan. this president is trying to figure out what can i do given the maelstrom of politics in washington. >> al, it's bad enough as you know being a lame duck but being a lame duck under 40% means that even members of your own party especially members of your own party don't feel compelled to follow you into battle. >> that may matter in some instances, joe. let me give you one that i think is a stunning statistic here and it goes to the ability of this house and this president to convey and communicate their

message. when we ask people is the deficit getting bigger or smaller. by 73% says it's getting bigger. in fact the deficit has been dramatically reduced over the last six years. two-thirds less than it was back in 2009. we also asked, are deportations of illegals increasing or decreasing under obama, solid majority say they are decreasing. no. they soared under obama. they don't convey these messages very well, joe. >> willie. >> let's bring mike allen into the conversation. he's got a look at the morning playbook. mike, good morning. >> good morning. >> let's talk about this piece in politico magazine. you asked can the left launch its own tea party. can they launch one. second part is why would they want to? >> well after the mid-term elections very anxious to and let's just look at it. what's counted down, insurgent

activists, populace pitch forks, prodding the establishment, and instyling intra party fear. this is where the tea party was with the republican party when they were in the wilderness. now increasingly you have momentum on the left in the democratic party for this. there's a story in the "new york times" today saying the moveon.org is prepared to spend a million bucks to draft elizabeth warren. and the most interesting part of this piece in politico magazine is that these activists are smart. they are picking issues that poll well. for instance increasing social security benefits. things that will help struggling americans rather than the sort of windmill of nationalized health care. another point that he makes here is that going back to the ''90 under president clinton, presidents have been afraid to play hardball. now democrats are hung too. >> is it fair to call this the

elizabeth warren wing of the democratic party. >> it's a great point. the question is will that become part of the democratic party who hillary clinton is from a different part of the democratic party. she's trying to adapt to that message but not fast enough for so many of these activists who say they want action and given the results of the election they have more standing to argue for that. >> governor, i see a smile on your face. you have something to say. >> i disagree on the fact that this is a war against hillary. actually the numbers are very interesting. unlike the tea party numbers with more moderate republicans, hillary is still in high esteem among liberal democrats. not as high as elizabeth warren. there's a piece in politico today or tomorrow that will endorse hillary while my organization is very involved with move on in drafting

elizabeth warren. we come together at the end of the day. we don't know for sure hillary will run. if she does she will get plenty of support. this is not the death battle that you saw between the tea party and republicans. >> don't you think it would be good for elizabeth warren to enter the primary process, good for hillary. >> you'll have somebody running, if it's not elizabeth warren. she said she won't run against hillary clinton. you may have bernie sanders. we need to debate these issues. the democratic party would do a lot better if we talked about middle class opportunities than redistribution of our assets. not so much wealth distribution but giving people in the 80% a chance again. >> politico's mike allen. thank you so much. as always thank you for the updates on the university of alabama. he tweets me every day. marty cooper is going to new york for the heisman deal. >> right. >> they have a pretty good team this year.

>> quarterbacks highly nu lly u rated. >> how about the guy from ohio state. >> they play each other. >> good game. >> not as exciting what's coming up next here. it's not that he opposes the president's position on isis. we have tim kaine up next for a fascinating conversation on "morning joe." plaque psoriasis most my life. but that hasn't stopped me from modeling. my doctor told me about stelara®. it helps keep my skin clearer. with only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses... ... stelara® helps me be in season. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. some serious infections require hospitalization. before starting stelara®... ...your doctor should test for tuberculosis. stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection, have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients.

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isis is basically an ideology. >> well, mike, look. it is trickier. this isn't traditional nation states. but there's history. when thomas jefferson was president we had to declare military action against the barbary coast pirates. they were connected to south africa. we have a history and this is the way we do it. we don't let presidents start unilateral military action without congressional vote. i'm frustrated we're now four months into war what the administration calls it, 1100 air strikes, 1500 combat advisors another 1500 coming, three deaths in operation as a result of american troops over a billion dollars spent. but there's been a conspiracy of silence about it here on the hill. we haven't had a meet vote or a floor vote and that's what we're going to move to today and tomorrow. >> you brought up pirates. let's bring in willie geist. let's go to our barbary pirate

desk. >> senator, i didn't think we would get a barbary pirate reference this early. let me ask you about this argument authorization from 2003 and 2004 extends today that's to fight terrorism today under that umbrella argument. >> that's a weak argument. there were two authorizations, one done right after 9/11, september 14th, '01 and one done with respect to iraq. the intent of the two authorization what members of congress thought about when they voted but especially what president obama has said about both authorizations since he's been president, it's clear the authorizations don't cover this war against isil and that's why it is so important for congress not to advocate its job as it has been doing for the last few months, not adjourn and go home for christmas on the 11th of december while we have people fighting overseas. >> al hunt? >> senator, how open ended would

you like to see a new authorization and how or how tailored should it be? >> you know, i filed a draft authorization, al in september after the president spoke to the nation on 10th tracking what he told american actions in iraq and siro. strict limitations on no ground combat troops with a few key exceptions. we put a sunset clause in our authorization and i think you'll see the committee embrace one as we mark this up on wednesday or thursday. but i do support the notion that this should not be a ground campaign. we should be providing air strikes to support the ground efforts of the kurdish, elements of the syrian opposition. there's no amount of american ground troops that can beat extremism in a region that won't police its own extremism. >> do you think the men and women of the military appreciate you're taking this up or does it

looks like politics has interfered and people are looking for political cover. where do you think they stand? you have a lot of constituents in the military. >> i'll tell you in virginia, nicole as you know we're as militarily connected as any state in the country. one in nine virginians is a virt. since i started banging on the white house in june about this, i wrote an op-ed in june saying don't start a war against isil without congress. i got uniform praise from my own states' residents and especially those who are connected with the military. they don't think we should ask our service men and women to risk their lives if congress is not willing to have a debate and put their thumb print on this and say this is in the national interest. if we don't do that it's not moral to ask people to risk their lives to carry out a mission. >> why not extend it and inlewd the taliban. >> that's a really good

question. the taliban is currently covered by all accounts by the 2001 authorization that willie mentioned earlier. my authorization would repeal the iraq '02 authorization but the '01 authorization that clearly covers actions against the taliban is still live because of the '01 authorization. now we're working with the white house to take that authorization which has no geographic limit. no time limitation. we're working with the white house to maybe try to refine that a bit but that's a separate issue. >> senator tim kaine we appreciate you being with us. good luck to you on the hill. coming up next what cause ad plane to crash into a home outside of washington, d.c. such a sad tragic story that left six people dead including a mom and her two young children. we'll go to tom costello in maryland with the investigation. the holiday season is here,

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♪ coming up at the top of the hour is putting americans overseas at risk or a report that needs to be released. senator angus king from the intelligence committee will join us with his take on the controversial report on the cia interrogations. that's coming up. and mike barnacle on what the eric garner protests say about our country. "morning joe" is next.

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welcome back to "morning joe." nicole wallace and mike barnacle are still with us. as you look at an absolutely beautiful view of new york city and now we're -- can we go back to that look of new york city. it makes me want to put on my swimsuit and just go outside. run through the streets in 34

degrees. that's times square. looks really -- >> not even snow. >> it's not. >> cold rain. if it's cold, snow. come on. >> worst of all worlds. flaming meteors. joining the conversation from washington we have political reporter from "the washington post." also mike barnacle still with us as well as nicole and willie. we talked last hour about lebron. >> yep. >> why don't you take us through what he did last night. >> last night the cleveland cavaliers were here in new york city playing the brooklyn nets at the barclay center and along with several other players lebron james came out with a t-shirt with and i can't breathe t-shirt. several others wearing the i can't breathe t-shirt. we talked about comparing this to the rams coming out with their hands up, don't shoot gesture and some of the differences in between those. as i said in the last hour belone has been on this.

he was on ferguson. he was on trayvon. he's spoken out very openly about these issues and hasn't been afraid to, to his credit. >> you have to salute him. lot of pro athletes make money and build big homes and go behind their gates and they don't put themselves out on the line. lebron is just the opposite. he's put himself out on the line. >> he stood up for principles that he believes in without fear or favor, without bothering to wonder whether it will hurt his bottom line in sneaker sales or anything like that. he's clearly a guy of conscience and goodwill >> you're a big lebron james fan. >> huge lebron james fan. he moved back home to cleveland, and -- >> thank goodness. i can cheer for him again. >> we miss him in miami. my husband is still in mourning. but in cleveland, it's one of the places that's been identified as having a lot of proble

problems. >> mike really had a compelling article, willie, yesterday, on the new york police department. >> yeah. mike was out with some of the protesters last week. he talked about it on the show last week and wrote in the daily beast the wildly peaceful human almost boring ultimately great new york city protests for eric garner. mike wrote the crowd was as diverse as you'll find, old, young, white, black, hispanic, asian, loud, proud, peaceful and oddly inviting. a company of police officers surrounded the floating protesters. they were both in front of and behind the parade of people making sure the marchers were safe from traffic. they gave voice to municipal outrage that would soon swell well beyond the borders of new york's boroughs. the cops moving in the same wave were as inclusive. young, middle age, white, black, hispanic, every step

nonthreatening their eyes nonjudgmental. it was a remarkable week last week. >> willy you were out there too on the upper west side. it was striking. it really was. the contrast between the cops in uniforms, protesters, all of them peaceful. all of them in an odd way inviting. you saw them and you wanted to participate. the cops were just the same. there was actually some humor going on between the protesters and cops. it was a nice moment and valuable moment for people to observe. this was not, you know, people looting, shouting. >> i said the morning after it was like a master class on both sides. if you want to stage peaceful protests anywhere in the world come watch the new york city protesters and if you want to understand how the police cannot get in the way of a protest but can keep a massive urban center functioning that was the night of the rockefeller center tree lighting and i was actually down at macy's with my 3-year-old i was happy that i compromise

where the protests were, the police department also communicated to the local news that i thought it was a master class on both sides. >> if you want to change the world by protesting, if you want to bring progress, do it the way the protesters did it here in new york. >> right. >> they are beyond reproach. some people were shouting some stupid slogans but you get that in any crowd. >> sure. >> of course a lot of people like to season it. the overwhelming majority of protesters were not only peaceful but respectful and very inviting and makes their argument that much more compelling. >> and our mayor goes out and try to find, i don't know why he struggled so much to throw his weight behind not the actions that we've all condemned but behind his police department. it scrambles my circuits he's at odd with the police department when everybody looks at the protest and found something to

be proud of. >> what did he say that scrambled your circuit? >> i think the inability to throw his weight behind the nypd and to sort ofof eqivocate. >> he suggested, george stephanopoulos put the question to him is your son at risk from the police department. he went further than saying raising a black kid is different than a white kid which everybody agrees it is. >> as much as i love the cops and love the nypd, i know they are diverse and bill bratton is doing an incredible job, but yes. that's something that americans should know if white america -- i'm talking about the nbc poll, if white america does not believe that bill de blasio son

is more at risk in downtown cleveland or downtown atlanta or downtown los angeles than my son, then they are disconnected from reality. >> i don't think anyone quibbles with that point. in a moment where the police department did a better job than anything else i've seen in raising a peaceful protest. there was just palpable rage you didn't even have to get to front line of the protest, it was every where. i think a lot of the police unions felt he equivocated. >> what parents have dpoern decades of color is train them very carefully when they have an encounter with police officers. this is something we've heard many times. gene robinson has talked about that. >> we talked about it after trayvon. >> george bush talked about it

with candy crowley on sunday. people understand that to be the reality. when you're the mayor of a huge city you have to understand words have consequences. >> what do you think? >> i think you hear this from a lot of black parents. jonathan said his mom taught him the same thing. i have two black brothers. i'm sure they sense the same thing in terms of their interactions with cops. we're reverting to the old conversations. typically democrats and police unions and police officers supposedly at odds. we're looking for daylight that isn't there. i think bill de blasio said something that he said when he was campaigning too and critiquing the stop-and-frisk, talking about his son being in a different position than a white teenager would be, it's something that rand paul has alluded to as well. so this is a conversation that i think people are having. the president talked about this

last night. he really -- he's talking about a post-staten island reality that we're now in, in this country. everyone has called for a national conversation. it sounds like that's where we are now and president obama seems to be willing participant of what he can do in terms of the law that's still an open question. >> you bring up rand paul. i thought it was good. john boehner came out and talked about this. republicans haven't talked about race in the past. and glad they are starting to. let's talk about politics and capitol hill. report is expected today in the cia's use of interrogation tactics and american embassies abroad are on alert. it details interrogation methods used in the wake of the september 11th attacks and questions the value of the information obtained. many officials say the u.s. did gain key intelligence. the document reportedly concludes the cia misled the

white house, congress and the american people in detailing their operations. that's a claim former vice president dick cheney has characterized as a crock. a lot of other cia directors have done the same. the white house said president obama strongly supports the release of the report. with us now from capitol hill, independent senator angus king of maine. thank you so much for being with us, senator. >> good morning. nice be with you. you had kaine and now you have king. >> we're going down the list. let's talk about this report. do you support the release of the report? >> yes. it's important to one i didn't come to the committee until after the report was completed. i did vote to release it. i do support the release. i think it's important for the public to know what we did so it doesn't happen again. >> you have the secretary of state obviously coming up to capitol hill today.

he's concerned that americans may be in danger across the globe. why was it so important to release this document if the secretary of state and other members of the intelligence committee fear for the lives of americans. >> it's a serious concern and it's one you have to weigh. nothing is without risk, joe. i think there are two reasons. one you started the last segment talking about lebron james and conscience and principles. this is about conscience and principles. it's about who we are as a people. i think that's important. the second reason is underlined by this explosion of torture, apologists who say it wasn't torture and it got great results. that means it can happen again. and that's the whole idea is to keep it from happening again by exposing that which is simply untrue. a, there's no question it was torture, b, the report in excruciating detail makes clear that it did not create actionable intelligence. there's a very important semantic point here as you

interview people and talk to other people they are going to say and i heard them say it over the weekend, the program created intelligence. the program was detaining people around the world and interrogating them. the fbi, cia, ncis. no question that created a lot of intelligence. this report is about whether torture created actionable intelligence. >> could you define torture for me, senator, because we've had a very slippery slope on the definition of torture since 2005. >> the general definition is extreme pain leading to a risk of death. >> what did americans do that you would clarify as torture? >> i think the clearest example is water boarding which we tried japanese soldiers for as war crimes after world war ii. there's no doubt that's torture. >> so there is a debate on whether that is or not but most americans agree that's torture. certainly, though, i must say a

lot of democratic senators and a lot of democratic congressmen and women did not think that was torture in 2002. i guess the definition has changed and maybe they didn't read the history books about us trying japanese for water boarding because they supported it too. what other than water boarding. >> there are stress positions, overnight hanging by your arms. john mccain is going to be on the floor of the u.s. senate this morning talking about this. he knows. i would say there's going to be a lot of information in the next couple of days. the report itself which i sat and read for an entire week every night, 480 pages and then the cia will have their response. former cia officials i understand even have a website which i think is, well anyway they are going to have that. there's a lot of information. >> what are you going to say? don't you want to hear from former cia firms including leon panetta. >> no. absolutely. let them make their statements.

they have no trouble getting their story out. they are out there. they have been on all the shows. they will continue to be. but you got to be careful about what they are saying. again they use this obfuscation that it was the program that created the intelligence. it did. the narrow question is did the torture produce actionable intelligence and the report just goes through in detail. that's what -- >> that sounds like a semantics game too. we got great respect for you. we love you coming on the show. we disagree. that sounds like a semantics game. did they get water board and two seconds later did sheik khalid mohamed spill inno. but eventually he did. >> there's a very powerful peace in politico today by a guy named by mark fallon an ncis

interrogator and has done this for 30 years. he says torture does not produce good intelligence. people will tell you whatever you want to hear. that's what mccain says. >> you don't hear that from people involved in the program or former cia officials. >> what do you expect? of course they are going say it worked. that's what they have been telling us. >> i expect there are good americans who did what democrats and republicans asked them to do and if it wasn't going to work, i don't think they want to do what's against america's best interest. what they did was try to protect the country the way that they were being told by democrats and republicans and americans. so i think if it was a mistake a lot of people not involved in the program that love going out and if there's a cottage industry of them going out saying it didn't work, i'm kind of interested in the people involved in the program, and also the cia directors who

probably have a lot more information than people that were never involved. >> that's a very interesting point because the cia -- one of the problems here is they did say it worked and they told the president it worked and they told the vice president and congress and justice department that it worked. they admitted two things in their response to this report. they admitted that they he in veerl studied whether it was effective, there was no systematic review. number, two at the time they said yeah it worked. in their official response when they read all the evidence that the committee staff had generated, they said it's unknowable whether it worked. there's a big migration from yes it worked to no we don't know whether it worked. >> so, i want to just have it on the record here, your official position is that there was no

actionable intelligence that came out directly or indirectly from enhanced interrogation techniques. >> that's based reading 480 pages, 2,000 foot notes and analyzing the evidence and the report basically dissects each one of those in tremendous detail and the conclusion is that it didn't work. >> let's go around the table. mike barnacle than nicole. >> senator king one of the allegations in the report is that allegations of repeated lying to the president, to other officials of this country by high ranking officials of the central intelligence agency, others from the national security agency how widespread do you think that line was and do you believe they were lying? >> i don't like to use the word lying. i think misrepresentation. i think a lot of what was

happening the word was coming up, they asked people over there is it working. yes. the higher ups it went all the way up. the cia cable where one of the people said whatever you do don't let colin powell find out about this he'll blow his stack. what does that tell you. they knew they were doing something they shouldn't be doing. >> nicole. >> i think words matter. you made that pretty clear this morning and senator kerry is, i think, correctly concerned that debates like the one we're having right now may have endanger american lives abroad. are you worried that your prerogative to say all the things you did this morning about an american program that was approved by democrats and republicans and the president is it worth to you to have the debate and say what you did this morning to endanger lives abroad. >> secretary kerry is raising the right issues. of course that weighs heavily. this was not an easy decision.

this isn't something i woke up one morning and said let's do it. i weighed that last spring as we were thinking through this decision. and i think the long range consequences and i've been told this by interrogators, it's not the report that's putting people's lives at risk it's what we did that's putting people's lives at risk. and we've got to move beyond this as a country -- >> i'm sorry but it's something we don't do any more, sir. it's something if you believe the program was wrong, the program doesn't happen any more. so you believe relitigating is worth possibly as secretary kerry said endangering american lives abroad in 2014. >> it doesn't happen any more because the current president has ruled it out. >> whatever the reason it doesn't happen any more. you think relitigating it now in this report is of sufficient value to heaven forbid endanger lives abroad. you think the balance is correct? >> i think that's the decision we had to make based upon what was in the report and the

importance -- >> even though the program doesn't happen today in 2014. >> there's nothing to say it wouldn't happen next year or the year after with a different president or under different circumstances. >> democrats and republicans -- >> would like this debate to continue at this point. the horse has been beaten sufficiently. thank you so much. senator king, how are you doing? other than that, do you have hopes before we go, do you have hopes that republicans and democrats are going table to get some stuff done on capitol hill, specifically in the senate which has been just so dead locked over the past several years. >> i think there are two levels of legislation, joe as ewell know. the big important controversial things and it's going be very tough to do anything about those on immigration. i think budgets are going to be difficult. then there's a whole second level of legislation, whether it's, you know, housing programs or job training or work with the veterans administration, i think we'll get some things done on

those. i certainly hope so. otherwise, you know, we're just spinning our wheels down here. >> let us hope so. senator we love having you on. thank you for your pa chance with us. mia stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," manhattan's d.a. joins to explain why he's using data to drive down the crime rate in new york city. plus why you may think you're on e-bay the next time you go to amazon's website. what? i don't get it. ♪ (holiday music is playing) hey!

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♪ a mother and her two young sons were among the six people killed when a small private jet crashed into their home in the suburbs of washington, d.c. yesterday. joining us live from gaithersburg, maryland, tom costello who covers aviation for nbc news. tom, good morning. >> reporter: good morning. this is just a tragic as it gets. behind me a family of five lived

in that house. yesterday morning a mother was inside trying to protect her baby and her 3-year-old after this plane came crashing into the house. it was a sudden violent explosion in a suburban cul-de-sac. a small jet plane slamming in to three homes setting off an inferno of exploding jet fuel. inside an upstairs bathroom 36-year-old marie grn immel was trying to shield her 6-week-old and 3-year-old. the fire was so intense neighbors and firefighters were unable to reach them. >> we have confirmed the lost of the three family members of the gimmel in the family in the house. >> marie's husband was at work. their 5-year-old daughter in pre-school. neighbors were left stunned. >> you look out and to see the flame right across the street is

pretty terrifying. >> the plane was attempting to land at nearby montgomery county airport. all three on board the airplane also died including the pilot, the ceo of a health care company who had crashed another plane at the same airport four years ago. just before yesterday's crash other pilots had reported an unusual number of birds in the area then watched as the plane suddenly went down. >> we got a phenom crash at the end of the runway. >> reporter: on the ground witnesses said the pilot seemed to be in trouble. >> not able to hold his position up, down, left, right. >> reporter: this morning the ntsb is reviewing the plane's flight data recorders as a normally quiet community wakes up in shock and sadness. pilot michael rosenberg and two colleagues were on their way to an fda meeting here in the washington, d.c. area. in a very strange and tragic twist here, marie gimmel was a

close friend and grew up with two of my nbc colleagues who rushed here to the scene yesterday afternoon to report on the story never knowing she was the one inside. they went to elementary, middle and high school with her. said she was a sweet, kind woman who was excited about being a mom. willie, back to you. >> good mother to the end. cradling her children. coming up here on "morning joe" on a much different note the royals taking manhattan. what's on their itinerary. kate snow is next. we'll be right back. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker?

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♪ prince william and the duchess of cambridge continue their visit to new york city this morning. prince william took a commercial flight, the horror, from new york to d.c. yesterday. to visit president obama. he did sit in first class. the future king did not have an entourage. the major headline of the visit came later in the day when the duke and duchess met jay and bay at the brooklyn nets game. joining us now kate snow, also in washington associate editor for "the washington post" former london bureau chief for the

paper, eugene robinson. that's our reach to bring gene into the conversation. many moons ago. but it's true. kate what's on tap today. >> big schedule. second full day of the tour. this morning they will be at the 9/11 memorial and museum, very somber place but they wanted to pay their respects there. then after that, they go to an event for, to celebrate creativity among the british and the arts and they go to a place called the door which is down in soho. i went down there the other day. ate great teen center where they have wraparound services for teens who are kind of struggling, right. so they have health care, they have education. they are going to do a dance and a performance for them. they are super excited, the royals. the big thing tonight, actually the whole trip was planned around tonight's event which is a gala at the met, at the metropolitan museum of art and to benefit their alma mater st.

andrew's university which you would think a scottish university why do they have to come to new york to raise money but a lot of americans go to that school. >> it was quite a spectacle. i was watching the nets/cavs game waiting to see -- they arrived in their seats in the third quarter. the whole place stands up. they sat down the 2019 front row. in one of the time-outs or between quarters they crossed the jay and the bay and the king and the princess. >> when is the last time royals ever went to a basketball game? i don't think that's -- >> that was their first-ever. >> right. >> i mean i guess the 2014 equivalent of coming to new york and eating a hot dog. >> or going a game. >> 1920 have. one of the kings from another century but it's that equivalent 2014. so, you get the sense they come here specifically for the fundraiser do they have a special affinity for the city.

they can go to any city on the planet -- >> they had never bento new york. i don't know about affinity for the city. because they've never seen it. look they started out, got invited to do this event for st. andrews tonight. they built the trip around it. they wanted to hit as many places as they can. they are constantly raising money for their foundation which supports a whole number of charities. he gave two speeches already and will give one more about endangered species and illegal wildlife trade. this is a huge issue for him. he's trying not to wade into the politics of it. he was careful about what he said about china yesterday. he's adamant we need to pay attention to what he calls one of the biggest crimes and corruption, one of the biggest forms of corruption. >> gene, you were a london bureau chief for "the washington post." to you get this? because i ask that question because i get -- i'm sorry, i

always loved it, mika seriously it's like talking to her about which "star wars" is the best. >> she doesn't get it. >> does not get it. >> the royal family was very, very good to me when i was in london because i was there from '92 to '94 which is when charles and diana were breaking up, their marriage was in its last throes and the relations of these secret tapes would come out and we learned about their lovers and this and that and the queen talked about this and that. so i totally get it. you know, my question to kate is whether william has that spark of charisma, that pixie ducht his mother had. when she walked this to a room she had it. does he have that same effect on

people and then second what was the meeting between royalty like, jay and bay and will and kate. >> i was standing right there in that crowd, i would like to tell you but i wasn't. i don't know what that meeting was like. read the lips and see if you can make out what they said to each other. to your first question, though, everybody that knows them says they are so grounded. they are so down to earth. i don't know about pixie dust. i don't know if he has that same aura. but he's genuine, he's real. she is too. people who meet them love them and say they are just normal people as much as a royal can be a normal person. >> kate thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being here. coming up next, did the system fail in the case of eric garner? i think most would say yes. we'll be asking manhattan's d.a. when he joins the table next on "morning joe."

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imagine loving your numbers. ask your doctor about invokana®. ♪ with us now manhattan district attorney cy vance jr. also with us at the table host of the msnbc ronald farrow daily as well as gene robinson. thank you for being with us. great to see you here. let's talk, first of all, everybody is talking about special prosecutor. you opened to the possibility of special prosecutor to investigate cases where police officers shoot unarmed civilians. >> i'm open to considering any number of possibilities that i expect will be debated with the governor, the legislature in the upcoming year.

i got to say that d.a.s are elected to do the job when it comes to making decisions on difficult cases. >> right. >> that's the nature of being a prosecutor. >> so what happened on staten island? because most americans, you know, we had a fierce debate over ferguson. >> right. >> and split, you know, down the middle. there's no debating staten island. everybody sat and saw that. what the hell happened? >> well, did you ask that question what happened on staten island? >> i think there's understandable anxiety all over the country and not just limited to communities of color but across spectrum. >> what about you personally? what was your emotional reaction when you saw they weren't indicting the police officer that choked eric garner? >> each of these cases that go into a grnl inand jury in a pol fatality are difficult cases.

i understand they didn't indict the reaction it would cause and as prosecutors, quite honestly i can't comment on what danny donovan put into the grand jury, how he instructed. you should ask him. >> i know. i'm asking what was your personal reaction? >> my reaction is it's going to be incredibly upsetting, it's going to add to that anger and anxiety, but, joe, this is what it is for me. this is an opportunity. what we learned out of this incident is that and the police commissioner have said as much. we have an opportunity in the prosecutor's office and police officers to deal with the under lying issue of who we are arresting, how we are effecting those arrests. are we making too many arrests in communities of lower. in our office we addressed this a couple of ways. first of all anybody that runs a public agency today has to address the question how is your own shop doing when it comes to bias. three or four years ago we

brought in a nonpartisan think tank to examine our statistics determine whether there's bias. >> what did they find? >> there was statistical disparity in low level marijuana cases and bail. >> what about murders, robberies, violent crimes? >> there was no real statistical distinction on how those cases are handled. that doesn't surprise me. but the whole issue of minor offenses, this is where i think there's a lot of anger about the fact that 90% of the people coming into our justice department is from communities of color. 90% of people in our jail system is 90% from color. we're working with the nypd next month to of a have a diversion program with young kids and making that city wide. there's a lot of cases coming in to the system which have real strong impact on individuals arrested that can be die swrertd

better outcomes. >> we'll have a lightning round here. we have 47 people that would love to ask you a question. so, let's start with willie. >> what do you make of the broken windows policing policy? do you think that's an effective policy in the last 20 years. because proponents say look at the numbers, it's pretty clear in the last 20 years crime has gone down. proponents said it led to a moment like eric garner's death. >> as i said to joe, i think the broken windows policing is different than it was 20 years ago. this is the opportunity when crime has declined as it has for us with the police to, to try to seek better outcomes other than moving thousands of cases of low level value into the jim enamel justice system often particularly with young kids resulting in arrests and sometimes records. which is why i propose along with others that we decriminalize low level amounts of marijuana and hope the legislature acts on that.

>> gene robinson in washington has a question for you. >> hi, how are you? the attorney general is asking for essentially these police homicide or police killings to be transferred to him so he can prosecute these cases. what do you think about that? >> as i said to joe and mike, i'm really open to talking about this issue of grand juries and who should be involved in prosecuting them. we have in my office prosecuted since 2013 police officers for rape, for fabricating the circumstances of stop-and-frisk in order to get indictments, for perjury. it's part of our job to prosecute police officers where we feel we can and should. but as it pertains to fatality, fatal encounters with police officers we want the foub have confidence in the grand jury system and confidence in the prosecutors. i believe prosecutors have done a good job in this area but i'm open to talking with legislators is there a better way.

>> i interviewed the attorney general yesterday and one thing that he stresses is that is a temporary solution. what is a long term fix look like in your mind? how do you get adversarial prosecution for cops? >> i think you are assuming that the grand jury presentations are something that they may not, in fact, be there. i think -- >> what do you mean by that? >> i mean there are two kinds of grand jury presentations for a prosecutor. one is a case where you pretty much know what happens and you put in the evidence. every defendant has the right who is arrested in new york state to testify before that grand jury. the overwhelming majority of them do not. >> in the garner case and the ferguson case, those were exceptions to the rule, right? where you actually had a prosecutor going in and played more of the judge down the middle than a prosecutor. >> joe, i think you're wrong. i have put in lengthy grand jury presentations in investigations

in our police involved shootings and fatalities. we do put in an extensive amount of evidence. in those cases trying to understand factually what happened, using the grand jury for investigatory tools. getting information out of witnesses who may not testify for fifth amendment reasons. we put together a full grand jury investigation and we do that in every police if a fatality because these case are of such significance we want the citizens to know we didn't make the judgment call on our own we put it in a body that represents our public. >> big discussion about body cameras, most americans want those body cameras on police officers. but also some concerns about privacy and how the use of body cameras would affect that person to person engagement between a police officer and a citizen. what's your sense of body cameras? do you foresee a sort of widespread use of these? i know there's a test pilot program in new york going on

now. >> is it mia >> yes. >> mia, i support the use of body cameras. i think the body cameras will protect police officers, they will also protect residents. the challenge with body cameras is how to deal with the data. the amount of data that you're storing on a daily basis is enormous and how people review that data is a challenge we'll overcome. >> let's talk about the changing, always evolving nature of police work. cops hate to be thought of as social workers yet in a city of new york their work does encompass social work. how do you constantly retrain the police force. >> bill bratton number one is a police commissioner for this challenge. you've seen his work in l.a. and elsewhere he's a good leader and good at intervening and dealing with community concerns. i think it's absolutely about training on the police front. also about prosecutors as i said rethinking who we prosecute and why and how we handle those

cases. we're blessed to be in a time where crime is at historic loss. that doesn't mean we radically change the way we do business but we have to re-evaluate a system that brings in tens of thousands of low level misdeamnor arrests. >> you've been doing interesting things with your job on a lot of fronts, some of these contentious race issues but we're also looking at a system nationwide that is not testing rape kits. that's something you've done a lot of coverage, joe on this show. i've done a lot of coverage on. your model on this is so interesting. he's taking body ill gotten gains from the financial markets and putting them towards that cause. we're looking at money stalled on the hill. we're hearing from our sources on the hil, well get new information for appropriations. do you think we'll see a national solution to the rape kit backlog that's still untested? >> for those who don't know we have hundreds of thousands of rape kits untechted sitting in

police warehouses. it's an insult. women who are typically assaulted have to go through this invasive procedure and this nothing is done. our perpetrator. so our office has pledged $35 million to begin a process of identifying numbers of kits out there and then testing those kits. i hope certainly that congress will see, well, if this little d.a.'s office in manhattan can step in and take owner ship, certainly the federal government can. >> thank you so much. great to have you out here. i wish mika had been here. she said your father was always so patient with her, even when she spilled caviar. >> a relatable child. >> our parents worked in a very interesting time and had different views. >> great to see you. and ronan, we're going to seeing you at 1:00 p.m. on msnbc. >> thank you, sir, always a pleasure. >> thank you guys so much as well. we'll be right back.

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welcome back, everybody. this is really cool because here with us now is mid fielder for los angeles galaxy robbie rogers. congratulations, huh!

great job. he's a little hoarse because he's been screaming too much. now he's on a book tour. >> yep. >> which is perfect timing. >> it is great. >> -- to lose your voice. because he's out with a new book "coming out to play" which is a fantastic read, and congratulations to you, not only for the fact that you g et to have that champion cup but you also have a great book that's just come out and you get to this be a role model. what do you think of that title? >> i'm always a little uncomfortable with it. it wasn't my intention when i came out and eventually went back to soccer. but i'm extremely happy i've been use that had way. i guess. >> did you feel like a free man once you came out? >> yeah, especially -- >> talk about the day before. >> i came out to my family a little over two years ago. i was debating if i wanted to come out publicly or let it happen organically. i posted a letter to social media, and it's actually what got me to write the book.

it was the reaction from everyone. i grew up in a conservative catholic family and in a sports world. >> how were your conservative catholic parents? >> they were very supportive from the second i told them. obviously horrified and very scared to tell them. from the second i told them, they just wanted to love me. >> and did that make publicly coming out much easier because you knew you had your parents? >> yeah, i'm sure it did. i don't know how i would have reacted if it happened the other way. i was still afraid. i turned off my phone and closed my laptop, but it did make a difference. >> have you heard from other players in the sport that said maybe i can do this now? >> i've heard from a lot of the younger generations. i've heard from people in different sports. people in soccer, not really. which shows there's a problem with the culture, that people are still so afraid. >> can i read an -- i'm sorry. >> go ahead. >> this excerpt i read six times and it gives my chills.

you don't grow up hating yourself by accident. you don't learn to lie about your true nature. you have to learn these things and i was a good student. can we talk about that? >> yeah, just being raised to think that being gay was a bad thing. you know, and then going to soccer after going to church and hearing things like don't be so gay. or when i was playing in europe and england, there was discussions on how could someone be gay? and i would be in the locker room. how could you go through the act? that made me think, okay, this is impossible for me to play soccer and be myself. >> you're going against the assimilation of all the things you've been taught over the years. amazingly the sun still comes up. the sports world still churns. >> of course. >> so do you think there are going to be other soccer play s players? because they do exist. they're not just landing from mars. do you think others will see

this and see you get to exist and live and love and prosper? and they can, too. >> that's the point of the book, the point of me really coming back. i missed soccer. i knew i could be a symbol on the field. it wasn't my intention until i realized how many people were struggling with this. with people like michael sam and jason collins and a number of female athletes and other people, it will change slowly. maybe like the catholic church. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> specipersonally and professionally. robbie rogers, thank you so much. much more on "morning joe" straight ahead. so,as my personal financial psychic, i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup.

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good morning. it's tuesday, december 9th. it's great to have you with us onset is former communications director george bush and the cohost of the view "nicole wallace." now for over like a 100th of a century. and former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national committee, howard dean. and in d.c., we have got columnist for bloomberg view, al hunt. a lot to talk about today. bill karins, let me bring you in. some lousy weather. it is cold. it is wet. there's a nor'easter coming. not a lot of fun. >> i would take a stormy day

over this day any time. as far as the the travel delays will go, the worst of them will be during the daylight hours today. the nor'easter formed just off the virginia coast. heavy, torrential rains all along the jersey shore into southern new england. i'm hearing a lot of reports of accidents in areas of southern katrina, areas of interior pennsylvania and northern new jersey with icy roads and now the hudson valley. be careful driving in suppose spots. it will change eventually, but it's icy right now. large waves are battering the jersey shore and long island. winds are gusting between 20 to 40 miles per hour. high tide cycle will be early this morning on the jersey shore. about noon in long island. if we're going to get bad flooding, that's when it will happen. by the time we're all said and done, we're going to add two to three inch ls of rain to what we've already seen. the icy stuff, all of northern new england will get ice or snow or a combination of both.

the heaviest snow totals in burlington, vermont, but also areas around syracuse, binghamton and scranton, we pick up a heavy, wet, six to ten inches of snow, called heart attack snow. new york city airports, significant delays all day during the daylight hours. boston will be this afternoon and this evening. and if you're traveling out of d.c. or baltimore or philadelphia, i don't think it will be too bad as we go throughout the morning. >> greatly appreciate it. terrible, terrible weather. so you're a big lebron fan. right? >> yeah. >> did you see what he did? >> wore the shirt. >> what did you think of that? >> you know, i think -- i was here that week after this case. and i remember we all watched the video and all saw the same thing. >> which was shock. zbr i think this is different in

my mind han the rams protest, don't shoot. >> because we caught this on video. and also the hands up, don't shoot. we don't know if that's the truth or not. >> certainly in conflict. >> it's conflict. you have he said/she said. last night certain cable news hosts were talking about a quote, conservative freakout over that. i just like facts before accusing white police officers of shooting black men with their hands up in the air. you want to have the facts straight. like for instance, like a liberal freakout would be let's say a chris christie where they did stories for eight months straight for an hour. and then they were strangely quiet. that would be a liberal freakout not based on facts. there was conservatives and a lot of moderates and a lot of liberals concerned about accusing of white police officers of shooting people with their hands up in the air. but in this case, we have it on

video tape. it is appropriate, is it not? >> of course, it is. and i expect all professional athletes to use their power and their moments to advocate things they believe in. i think lebron feels this. i think the whole country feels thi this. >> i can't imagine if i were the black man or the mom of a young black man, i would be weari ini t-shirts or buttons. it's totally appropriate for him to do that, right? >> the issue is not just eric garner. we have a problem in this country where black kids are likely to be shot by white police officers about ten times more than white kids are. this is clearly a problem. that is way beyond what happened in ferguson or staten island. those are the particular things that set this off. we have to deal with this. >> but you're okay with lebron

doing this? >> of course. >> would you be okay if somebody went out and said abortion is murder? >> yeah, yeah. i might never -- >> of course not. really? >> that's what i'm asking. i respect the right for him to do that. but tonight if somebody wants to go in with a t-shirt. >> we can pretend for the political correctness. i feel like our political correctness cup has runneth over. >> i'm sure the nba, willie, if they're allowing political statements, i support lebron doing that. i believe it needs to be done. i mean, this is an issue that needs to be discussed. but i certainly hope if somebody comes out with a political statement they are opposed to, they need to let them do that. adam silver, the police

commissioner was asked. he said i certainly would prefer they abide by the on court a at tire rules. most people don't think anybody will be fined over this. >> the abortion question we've been debating for years. it's an on doing -- >> if you're a young black man in america you've been dealing with this for 350 years. >> you can't explain it away. if you're going to allow a political statement on one side, you've got to allow a political statement on all side. >> this is not about allowing a statement. it's a different kind of debate. >> how is that? >> because the question of what happens with white police officers and black men is -- that's not a debatable problem. it is a problem. and people need to fix it. people have different ideas about how to fix it. that's a national issue that the survival of the country depends on.

>> my point is also whether you're talking about abortion or guns or any viewpoint that may be unpopular to let's say certain segments of this society. if you're going to allow that statement, which let me say again, i support you have to also allow statements that may be more offensive or not politically correct -- >> in the moment. >> in the future. >> i thought that was fascinating. again, i'm glad he did it. it's nice to see somebody with that much power and influence doing more than buying mansions. this is something where a guy is taking a chance. >> this is not ferguson. everybody agrees with eric garner. to me this is different. i think that the rams players took a chance. that is stima divisive question about ferguson.

i don't know that there's any debate about eric garner, is there? >> unfortunately there is with some police unions. >> you know what we get to say about lebron. he spoke out publicly about trayvon. he spoke out publicly about ferguson. he spoke out about eric garner. many huge nba players of the past wouldn't touch things like this. >> i talked about abortion. i should have said what if somebody like charles barkley were still in the nba. he said looters are scum bags or something like that. then what would the nba do? to say somebody like charles barkley on the other side of things. anyway, and by the way, he agrees with garner, too. >> it's not a divisive case. >> let's get to the news. an explosive and offense delayed report will be used on the cia's use of enhanced interrogation techniques and americans abroad

are preparing for blowback. it details interrogation used in 20 cases in the bush administration in the wake of the september 11th attacks. it questions the value of the information obtained, though many officials have said that the united states has gained key intelligence. the document reportedly conclud concludes the cia misled the white house, congress and the american public. at this point i feel con peled to tell you it's a democratic report. they wrote it in the majority. they are letting ut out before the republicans get the majority. the republicans disagree with this. and most people that run the central intelligence agency disagree with this as well. including leon panetta. a claim that former vice president dick cheney characterized was the democratic claim. the white house says the president strongly supports the release of the report. but his chiefs of staff and the cia are trying to limit it. there's been a lot of back and

forth on this. dianne feinstein not happy at all when the white house got involved and tried to redact more than she wanted redacted. >> yeah, joe, there has been. and it's going to be controversial when it comes out today. my suspicion is going to be more about -- it's going to be more embarrassing than dangerous. dianne feinstein is not known as a harsh cia critic. i'm not sure what particulars will be redacted. they're upset. they've been identified already, joe. everybody knows that. a european court has cited them. i'm not sure that the damage will be anything like the critics like dick cheney charge. >> and the the question is, howard dean, whether there's going to be much new information out in the report that hasn't already been leaked out. >> here's twhi the report is a big deal. we report in this country to be a moral beacon. and our standard of behavior has to this kb higher than the the

people who we're preaching to. >> and it is. >> and it turns out -- >> and it is. i'm trying to be careful for you. our standard is higher than al qaeda. our standard is higher than isis. >> i'm not talking about al qaeda. >> our standard is higher than most countries on the planet. >> is our standard more higher than what went on in iraq. what are we doing here? >> what are we doing? is that the question? what are we doing? >> what i want to know is what the hell are we doing? are we doing the same things we're telling dictators not to do? >> no, we're not, howard. >> no, no, let me finish. i agree it will mostly be embarrassing. the american people need to know what they're doing. >> we waterboarded three people. last one was waterboarded in 2003. three people. and dlst a debate on --

>> do you think isis has a doctor in the room when they decapitate people with a knife? wait. wait. wait. you just said we're a moral beacon. so in the history of this country, i think once after 9/11 there were three people who we thought knew about imminent attacks, and we did whatever we had to do. and i pray to god that until the end of time we do whatever we have to do to find out what's happening. and the notion that this somehow makes america less great is dangerous. and i swear to god. i have never felt more frustrated with this white house's inability to speak clearly than i was yesterday when john karl was pushing josh earnest to say whether obama found the information gleaned helpful in killing bin laden. you watch that exchange and that's what this is about. does it help us kill people who want to kill us?

but the notion is a lie. it's a lie perp tray traited by political correctness and liberals. >> that's not true. >> that's how i feel. you don't have to win me over. >> and i respect the way you feel. but here's the problem. the problem is not did we waterboard three people. the problem is what about the black prisons in poland? which the the eu is really upset about. >> in defense of poland i think it should wait until the report comes out. >> what about supporting right wing groups? >> what else did we do to make sure 3,000 people weren't blown out of -- obliterated on a new york city morning? what else did we do? i don't care. >> people were not a threat to the united states. we killed 200,000 of them. this is a pattern. >> it's not a pattern. it's a belief whether what we do is from a place of morality. >> and my point is it isn't always, and lest find out if

this is or not. >> you just said you already know everything. i any all the reasons that liberals give are lies. this is about doing whatever it takes. i think this will divide the country in the next presidential electio election. >> i think this is about the country that we have. all i want is the american people to decide for yourselves whether this is a good idea or not. not some closed government. >> t president obama used this information and refuses to say whether or not it was helpful. >> that's politics. >> exactly. >> the american people have a right to know. >> you just said we already know everything. so did joe. >> the classified information that will come out eventually clearly shows that what khalid sheikh mohammed told his interrogators led to variable

action nl intelligence and if americans are offended by the three people that were waterboarded and sleep deprivation, but what history will not debate is whether the intelligence was actionable or not. and so hi think, howard, it is also a different way of looking at this country and understanding that sometimes this country makes mistakes. i'm horrified in the comfort of 2014 every time i read about the dresden fire bombing where we incinerated 200,000 germans unnecessarily. i'm offended by so many things that i read. you wonder if it was necessary to drop two atomic bombs. how in the world could fdr have in turn over 100,000 japanese-americans that are with loyal patriots? >> hold on. >> i know i am.

i think what fdra did, i think what woodrow wilson did and i think what barack obama is doing, and i'm offended by the massive uptick in drone attacks -- >> and the nsa program. >> and i'm concerned about the nsa program. but i don't think barack obama, i don't think george w. bush, i don't think fdr are horrible human beings. i think like lincoln suspending habeus corpus are doing what they think would protect the most americans. >> the simple case i'm trying to make is the american people ought to be the judges of that in a democracy. >> but you know what i know. i've been waiting for americans to be auchbded by the uptiblg in drone attacks and the nsa. they aren't. >> happen to support the president's drone programs. >> you do? >> i do. >> so you support dropping drones on households, killing 18 or 19 people to try to find one

bad? >> no, that's not what the policy is. >> including 5-year-old girls and 85-year-old grandparents. >> that's not the policy. >> that's the effect of the policy. >> nor is it most of the time the effect of the the policy. >> that's not a gross exaggeration. >> it is a gross exaggeration. you used one case to made a broad example. >> it's not one case. we have, howard, and i can't tell you how i know, but if you're between the age ls of 18 and 35 and within the visit of a suspected terrorist, then you are presumed a terrorist, and they drop a drone, and they kill you. and by the way, they kill americans. and by the way, they kill -- i know exactly how it works. and here you find yourself -- this is a teachable moment, howard, defending a drone program that a lot of people are deeply offended by. >> i do. >> i don't think you're evil. i don't think you hate america.

i don't think you undermine the values of america. i disagree the same way you disagree with the waterboarding of three people. and i love you, and i love your sweater. >> and you did say you respected how i felt. i think we've done it here. zblf the point is in a democracy the american people get to judge tabltd the things and debate. we can debate all we want. that's fine. in a ghox ultimately the american people are the boss. we need to know what the cia is doing. we need to find out if the nsa is spying on us. i have no problem with the nsa spying on me. that's a worthwhile tradeoff for my security. but i ought to know because we are all supposedly the boss. not a group of people in washington. we started the conversation by saying we know everything. we started the conversation by saying we know about poland. we know three people.

>> and my point is the american people support these activities. whatever it takes. keep the country safe. >> today you'll see a group of senators when the report comes out crying foul about how they can't believe america is doing this. this is the same senators that were believed a decade and a half ago and know everything. and today in 2014, they'll say oh my gosh, i can't believe they did this. >> and hillary clinton was briefed. >> that's the most offensive thing. and i've said this this a lot because i've known people involved who did what their country asked them to do. did what their president asked them to do. did what their vice president asked them to do. they briefed nancy pelosi.

they briefed -- >> -- diane. >> dianne feinstein wasn't on the committee. i've made that mistake before. they briefed liberals. they briefed conservatives and everybody said in 2002 yeah, okay, yeah, okay. and some ask, is this all you can do? and then dana priest wrote an article in 2005 for the "washington post," and they all ran out with their hair on fire going, oh, i can't believe that happened. and guess what happened to the americans that did what republicans and democrats and the attorney general and -- guess what they had to do? hire lawyers. they don't have that much money. they lost their jobs. it's despicable what happened to them. so you're right. i hope the senators and congressman getting briefed show

a little bit of class today. still ahead on "morning joe." leaking movies was only the beginning. now sony employers are the names of hackers with social numbers and names being leaked online. we'll tell you what the cyber criminals are demanding now. plus, the circus comes to the capital. today congress grills president obama's architect jonathan gruber. in the words of one republican staffer, it's going to be a lot of fun. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. we started with reuters. one al qaeda leader condemning the beheadings carried out by isis is unislamic. yet you want to follow al qaeda's view. the senior commander from an al qaeda branch in yemen said in a twitter video, quote, prophet mohammed has ordered us to be kind in everything, even in killing, and it is not part of kindness to film beheadings and slayings and publish them in public where sons and daughters of those killed can see. >> on a high horse is your headline. the university of virginia says it will not lift the ban on fraternities after rolling stone backtracked on its story about an alleged gang rape at a fraternity house there. greek organizations are calling for their activities ban to end. a ban imposed in the wake of that explosive story. but in a letter to parents, the university president says the

ban will remain in effect through january 9th. uva's president says she's moving forward with a series of changes to address sexual assault on campus. that includes increased police presence, unarmeded security guards and increased lighting. two new groups will also be formed. one to examine what changes are needed and another to put the plan into action. >> there's a problem there anyway. right? we heard there's a problem there. >> well, they have to be vigilant. i went to berkeley. there were alarm buttons and security guards that would walk men and women home from the library. >> which i needed. women were always coming up attacking me. >> at the library? >> wait, no they weren't, and i never went to the library. so that's advanced. berkeley had that ahead. >> a think a lot of cur ban campuses. >> i think so many is just people waking up to what has been acceptable for a very long time.

it's just not acceptable now. >> i think it's dangerous to say sexual assault has been acceptable. >> but there's been a boys will be boys. like drunk frat house guys. i'm just speaking from -- >> i think one of the things about social media is you don't get away with much. everything is on twitter. >> in 1983, 1984, 1985, there was twitter. >> way back then. >> if there was twitter back then or in the '60s or '70s, social media, i'm just saying you would have seen some pretty bad behavior. coming out of a college campuses. >> we have the animal house legacy. that was true on some campuses. and then i think this might be a rare example of where twitter and social media makes things better. >> very rare. >> very rare. the los angeles times, an apartment complex under construction in los angeles burst into flames. it could be seen for miles monday, sending the city's infamous traffic into an all-out

standstill. the fire consumed the unoccupi d unoccupiedunoccupieied seven-story office building. 250 firefighters fought the blaze and no reports of injury. >> what was that? >> investigators tried to determine if there was foul play involve. police say fires of that magnitude with always investigated for criminal intent and adds it's suspicious for a building of that side to be engulfed all at once. >> the hill. em battle led obamacare ads viseer is at the hill today. gruber is going to testify before the republican controlled panel to explain his now infamous comments about the stupidity of american voters: one republican aide said the hearing is all about giving him the opportunity to say something stupid. it's going to be a lot of fun. >> if you're him, why are you going to capitol hill? >> you like attention? why do you around saying

american people are stupid? >> and why do you test them? you can't take it back. >> i wonder if valerie jarrett didn't call and say you're not coming to capitol hill? and he said, i'm coming anyway. you think the white house would have gotten him? >> you would think the white house wouldn't want him there. still ahead, the stories driving today's market. plus, imagine growing up with a pet rhino in your living room? it actually happened to me. the story behind this photo and what it has to do with prince willi william's visit to the u.s. and why nicole diszed the royals. >> i love them. i just said i like harry and pippa even more. >> you trash them. >> i love them. i love them. they're lovely.

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good stuff. >> oh, yeah. new details are emerging this morning from the sony pictures data breach. this story is unbelievable. the hackers have released a troef of information that includes actors, phone numbers and aliases they use when

traveling. natalie portman and tom hanks to name a few. ben fritz, my god, this story is amazing. it seems to keep getting worse from sony pictures. how upset are employees at sew sni. >> they're furious and scared. i don't think anybody knows when it will stop. certainly people leaving the steed you have no idea. >> what's the big concern. >> it's actually not the celebrities. it's all the employees and form eer employees who social security numbers were leaked on the internet. more than 47,000 social security numbers are online. and sony pictures only has 6,500 current employees. they've worked in the past as employees or actor or camera men, you name it. if you've been in business with sew nir pictures, your

information is on the internet. >> is there any evidence that sony safeguards were less than other movie studios? other major corporations? or were they unfortunately a target of north korean hackers. it seems more of the latter. certainly the security is not where it should have been. actually the scariest thing is not just the security, but that this information was so readily available on people's computers. the the ceo of the studio, his social security number was on 94 different documents not password protected, just sitting around on people's computers. >> oh my gosh. >> and this information is just everywhere. it may not be easy to get in in, but once you get in, this stuff is everywhere. anything that you've seen, it was not password protected. just sitting on the laptops or computers. >> has there been any sort of attention convention because of the release of salaries and the discrepancy of salaries between

upper and middle management? >> sure. same way at any company. hollywood people at the top make a lot of money. certainly more than those people in positions of other industries. even at the middle levels. if you worked on television side and marketing. if you find out they make $30,000 more than you or vice versa, people get annoyed by that. there's a reason salaries are kept secret. >> does sony feel they have a full handle on the amount of information? >> no. this was like edward snowden to think how much is really out there. but do they feel like they know what's been lost in this breeac? >> no, they don't. and people at sony are scared and messed up again. just yesterday, all the e-mails sent and received by amy pascal and steve moscow, number two in

the studios. all the e-mails are on the internet, and i know for a fact people of the studio didn't know this was coming until it was out there. and there's all these people around who have been e-mailing with them about projects upcoming and so on. all those e-mails are online. >> that has this been narrowed down to north korea for the most part? do they believe that this is about north korea hack? >> yeah, certainly all the data from the investigation of the experts we're working with in sony points to north korea. to see the methods they've used in the past, this attack was done on computers that used a korean language, and north korea has expressed how upset they are about a movie sony is about to release called the interview that stars seth rogan and makes fun of kim jong un. >> i would say it looks very funny, but i'm afraid to say that on tv right now. how about that for a chilling effect? my god. >> absolutely. the funny thing is, i mean, not funny now, is north korea was

long considered the only country that it was safe to put as a villain in hollywood movies. and now that china is our partner, nobody wants to upset china. same thing for russia. north korea is not a trading partner and they don't watch american movies. it seems safe. now people will have to rethink that. >> all right ben fritz, thank you so much. really appreciate it. so mike, what does -- we used to have -- that your wife worked at bank of america. i'm thinking about other financial institutions. i'm thinking about nbc. all corporations. how does this -- this changes the game, doesn't it? >> it has for quite some time. i can't think of any other institutions that spend more on continually developing firewall against this sort of breach than the large financial institutions in this country? which they have to out of necessity. it's every day an attack is made, some sort of an attack is

made on their systems. >> and now media companies. >> media companies have to worry about it. it's a big concern. who do you make the bad guy in movies if you think there's going to be some type of retaliation that will go this nuclear on your business model and think they're going after employees. sony has over 6,000 current employees. but they've gone in the backtracking files, and now they've got the social security numbers of 40,000 people that have gone through the gates of sony pictures. it's a terrible breach of privacy for so many people. >> it is. and still ahead, why retailers may have a lot to cheer about this holiday season. we're going to look at an exclusive sir va jussurvey just released by cnbc.

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it kills me to know that we're in this situation because we have not followed through with what you have expected us to do. i take absolute full responsibility. we did not reinvest ourselves or help you grow. we have failed you miserably in not accepting your voice. you guys not only bought into the concept, but more importantly you bought into us. and the fact that we have failed hurts me a lot. it does. >> a new look there at the new episode of "the profit." it premiers tonight at cnbc. let's bring in our own brian sullivan. hey, brian, so you guys, cnbc has an exclusive, and it could

bring good cheer if this survey pans out in reality, could bring a lot of good cheer to a lot of retailers this holiday season. tell us about that. >> good morning. we could use good news on this day. our senior economics reporter with his all america survey. he's been doing it for eight years. and the reading is the highest since the recession hit. 94% of americans surveyed now believe their home prices will either stay flat or go up. perhaps lower oil prices a big part of that. one thing i would caution with regard to stocks. oil and stocks move in the same direction. so we cheer lower oil prices because we don't want to pay for bas. but a lot of investments and jobs made in this country have come from the the oil and energy industry.

>> let's talk about amazon in the news. why? >> i'm going to do a story and send it back to you with a question. amazon is going after ebay with the make an offer negotiation tool. as of today on certain items, they have to be over 100 bucks, you can hack l with the seller. remember, amazon sells stuff for other people. not just from their warehouse. so the question to you guys, i would rather pay a little more and not haggle. because v because i'm a coward. do you like the haggle sng. >> i only like it if i'm negotiating my contract with phil griffin. i'm not going on amazon to haggle. i'm going to order something fast and get it. >> i would haggle. >> you like haggle? >> i would like to haggle to get more, to go up. i don't mind haggling to get good deal. zblf what about you, mike? >> no, click, bye. >> mike gets his out. >> that's your new nickname. buy it now barnacle.

of course, i had someone in my hometown. i of course shop in my local stores in my hometown. support small businesses. not just on the the saturday after thanksgiving. but every day. it's one of the reasons prince williams is here in the united states. we'll explain what his trip has to do with rhinos like this one ahead on "morning joe." sheila! you see this ball control? you see this right? it's 80% confidence and 64% knee brace. that's more... shh... i know that's more than 100%. but that's what winners give. now bicycle kick your old 401(k) into an ira. i know, i know. listen, just get td ameritrade's rollover consultants on the horn. they'll guide you through the whole process. it's simple. even she could do it. whatever, janet. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.

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supporting wildlife conservation is a top priority for prince william. he's a rye patron of the organization tusk. they work to fund kofrgs vags and environmental education programs across africa. with us now is the chief executive of tusk. jack is the author of the book, the story of an orphaned black rhino. all proceeds from the book go to support tusk, so it's perfect for a gift under the holiday tree, or if you're thinking of buyinging this for the kids in your family. guys, it's great to have you here. jack, let me start with you. what inspired you to write this book, and how old are you? >> 17 years old. >> already a published author.

we like this. you have a little bit of something under your belt already. why did you want to do this? >> this is an incredible story about an iconic and majestic animal that is in danger of becoming extinct in our lifetime. i thought this would serve as a perfect means for addressing the plight of the black rhino, and therefore the more people who read the book, the greater the awareness it will raise and hopefully save rhinos. >> how did you find out about the story? >> that's a great question. i found out about the story by the manager at the national mark there. i've been lucky enough to strike up a friendship with him. he basically e-mailed me two years ago about the the story. the story is about a day old baby. his real name is chizzy, which means orphaned one. and they basically adopted this

rhino and brought him into their household. >> now that's something you don't see every day. a chi know hanging out in the living room. i've had a lot of wild beasts in my living room, but did not look like that. so obviously the prince is here talking about what he sayses is one of the most insidious forms of corruption, and yet this seems to be a battle that we're losing. especially for countries like china. what can be done? >> you're absolutely right. the demand from china and the far east in this particular is just so huge that it's stimulating an incredible amount of poaching right across africa. >> it's getting worse. >> it is an up hill struggle. >> what can be done? >>. >> well, there's a number of things that can be done. the first thing is more boots on the ground.

tusk invests a lot of money into improving security where we can across africa. but also reducing demand in china. that's one of the big challenges, you know, for conservationists. >> how does that happen? are we putting pressure -- is our government putting pressure on china's government. >> there's a great deal going on behind the scenes. i'm optimistic. i think we can change people people's views. 70% of chinese people who buy ivory don't realize it's coming from poached elephants. they think it's teeth that have fallen out. there's an education process that needs to go on. and a lot of slepties, chinese celebrities helping. >> we had yao ming on the show talking about this. do you think this is an issue that younger americans and people across cross the world will be focused on?

>> definitely. this is an immediate, pressing issue. one of the most important things is to reach out to the younger generation. they're basically our world's future. if we don't do anything about it, the majestic animals could go extinct within our lifetime. >> thank you guys so much. thank you for what you're doing. you got a lot of years ahead of you for what you're going to be doing. 17 years old. >> and a book. >> that's it for "morning joe." the rundown is straight ahead.

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now get 3 gigs of data on one line for $65 a month. switch to at&t, buy a new smartphone and get $150 credit per line. good morning. i'm craig melvin. developing this morning on "the rundown", the graphic explosive torture report six years in the making comes out today. intelligence committee chair dianne feinstein will talk about details on the senate floor at 11:00 a.m. it is expected to be a blow-by-blow account of interrogation tactics used by the cia after 9/11. but there's also fear that the the report itself could spark a backlash against the united states. 2,000 marines are mobilized at american embassies across the middle east on high alert, bracing for violence. the report itself is expected to outline