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lot of folks who work very hard after 9/11 to keep us safe during a very hazardous situation, a time when people were unsure what was taking place, but what was also strue that we took some steps that are contrary to who we are, contrary to our values. as i said before, constitute torture, in my mind, and that's not who we are. >> good morning, it is wednesday, december 10th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have mike barnacle, white house correspondent for the white house carole lee, nbc news chief correspondent richard engel on the set with us, in washington, columnist for the washington post, david ignacious. good to have you on board today. we will get to bill kierans on the weather because there is a lot going on tlm also, we will talk about the graphic content

during the show. given everything, it's really impossible to get around it. it's a little disclaimer before we begin the conversation here. hard to get around it, because reaction is pouring into the highly intelligent report on cia interrogations released on tuesday. it states the agency repeatedly deceived the white house and lawmakers ab it's methods t. report claims cia interrogations after the 9-11 attacks were ineffective and much more brutal tan represented t.cia is pushing back the director challenges key findings alongside former directors who dismiss the report lopsided and defined by errors him dianne feinstein spoke about the report yesterday on the senate floor in graphic details. >> reporter: detainees were subjected to the most aggressive techniques immediately, stripped naked, typeers, physically struck and put if various

painful stress positions for long periods of time. they were deprived of sleep for days. in one case up to 180 hours, that's seven-and-a-half days over a week with no sleep. the cia led several detainees to be believed they would never be alive to leave cia custody alive. cia described at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with loud noise and music and only a buck toules for human waste. >> there was also confusion about how many detainees existed. records show at least 119, but cia officials say there were fewer than 100. records show george w. bush was kept in the dark with his first briefing taking place in 2006, four years after the program began. one memo claim the white house

said to keep details of the program hidden from former secretary of state colin powell because he may quote blow his stack if he were to be briefed on what's going on in 2003, the chief of interrogations threatened to quit, writing in an e-mail, this is a train wreck waiting to happen and i intend to get off the train before it happens. the five-year investigation disputes claims the enhanced interrogation stopped attacks and led to information that located osama bin laden in pakistan. >> the committee found that the cia's coercive interrogation techniques were not an effective means of acquiring accurate intelligence or gaining detainee cooperation. we took 20 examples that the cia, itself, claimed to show the success of lead interrogations. our staff reviewed every one of

the 20 cases and not a single case holds up. actionable intelligence, that was quote otherwise unavailable, otherwise unavailable, was not obtained using these coercive interrogation techniques. >> okay. let's start with david ignacious in washington. you say, david, this was necessary to release for public accounting, but what about national security? >> well, let's take the first part first. i found the report absolutely devastating to read. we have known about these techniques. we have known about the chapter in american life but to see what it felt like for a young medical officer observing the first waterboarding, the sense of the revulsion that that officer felt, to read about how groups of younger officers watching the interrogation of these young people would break down sobing, they were so upset to see the

person described who was running interrogation program describing it as a train wreck. it's very, very powerful. you realize just how unprepared the cia was for interrogating the suspects and how unprepared the country was and all the% takes that flowed from that. is this a fair minded report? i think that's one of the questions we are struggling with. the tone was almost prosecutorial. in every instance, it was never to look for the worst construction, the possibility that the cia had willfully, deliberately, misled congress, misled the executive branch. and i found that unconvincing in some instances. for example the claim that these techniques were entirely effective. cia officers have said for years now, that you just can't know what a part of the process of the investigation led to the details to allow the break through that targeted osama bin

laden. you need to be agnostic. what this report has done is gone back and seen if you can find the pieces of information some other way and then said, aha, it was available from another channel. that is sort of looking at this history through hindsight t. question is whether it's really fair for the people doing it. >> there is criticism that this could create more problems to release it all. we will get to that, table that in a second, michael, we'll go to you. the question i have is how damming the support is. how credible it is, because is it proof that people are lying or is it proof only that someone is lie something. >> i don't know the answers to those, but it's incredibly damming. david, let me ask you, you have been around the block more than two times, two questions here, one, was there anything in this report that surprised you and, two, do you believe in your gut that president george bush did not know about this until 2006?

>> first, what surprised me most, mike, was just how unprepared the cia are or was for the job it was given to do if interrogateing these suspects. i mean, the really comes acontrols as a gentleman's club. they have one quote from an officer in 1978, basically, saying, we don't do these sorts of things. it's an abomination, why are you asking me? so they turned to two psychologists, two outside contractors to run this program. that was surprising. you see in the first year or two how disorganizing they were to create this out of nothing. that's striking. on the question of what president bush knew, there is a surprising claim that the first briefing that president bush got if detail on these techniques was in tweeting, long after the interrogations had been done, indeed, after waterboarding was no longer used.

what makes that slightly difficult to accept is that there's also a memo that's quoted which was written two days be every the first waterboarding in which the national security adviser, condoleeza rice is briefed about the techniques that had been approved by the justice department that included waterboarding. condoleeza rice is briefed in detail on what they're going to do and then it's says in the memo, the decision was made that president bush will not be briefed. almost as if, let's not tell the president the details. he doesn't ned to know them. we will make this decision on his behalf and in past cia scandals, back in the '50s and '60s, you find a similar pattern. don't toll the president. it's not for the chief executive to know. i wonder if that was the case here. >> what the culture was there. the contractors, they were paid $81 million in toll. >> a staggering figure and upsetting. they were paid $80 million of

our money to do these terrible things? >> yeah. so before we get to richard engel, carole lee, he's john mccain reacting. take a look. >> i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad tan good intelligence. i think it's an insult to the many intelligence officers who have acquired good intelligence without hurting oral degrading prisoners to assert. we can't win this war without such methods. yes, we krks and we will. i have often said and will always maintain that this question isn't about our enemies. it's about us. its about who we were. who we are. and who we aspire to be. >> a lot of questions, but i want to ask you, richard, let's pair it down to one of the key ones here. is this what we are looking at in these documents, torture and murder or tactics? >> i think there was a torture

program. >> we are being told to be careful with the word "torture." they're called tactics. it looks like torture to me. >> if any other country did this. >> does it define them, the united states? >> cruel and unusual punishment? >> how about murder? >> humiliation. two people died, one of them froze to death. i think torture would be fair. it was mistakes. you weren't supposed to be killing people. you were supposed to be interroga interrogateing them. it's important what you call it. it's important to understand what happened after 9/11, not just the cia, this country went off the rails in many different aspects. the fact that we have this giant under surveillance program right now is a direct result of this period t.cia started looking at ways to get more information.

all the intelligence agencies expanded, had their budgets grow dramatically. now we are looking back at what happened in this period right after 9-11. it's really quite disgusting. i think this report when you read the details and the specific way these detainees were humiliated, often sexually humiliated. that's a big undertone in this. you see the anger and the dark inside that came out and then there's questions about whether it was worth this or not. whether they got any actual intelligence out of the program. but it's also important to understand, this was a program. lots of people few about it. coming was briefed. perhaps the president, himself, wasn't briefed until later, but his inner staff was briefed. they decided not to tell him. well, that's their decision. maybe it was the wrong decision. maybe they cover their plausible deniability. but this was a program that went on for years, that to pretend

that -- >> it's hypocritical. >> do we know the extent? >> i knew most of the details in this report, but hearing them and seeing them in print from the raw transcripts is much more powerful than hearing about the program. >> we want to get to carole lay, former cia director michael hay den will be on strongly criticizing the report. he says it's not torture and the investigation was politicized. >> as bad as some people think cia behavior was with regard to these 100 or so detainees. if everyone on the planet used cia behavior as the model, the overall treatment of detainees on earth would actually improve. the report was 130esed to have conducted interviews, hearings,

and give recommendations. it doesn't have any of those. i was with the government for ten years after 9-11. let me tell you a phrase i never heard from anybody in any position of authority, whatever you guys do about the terrorism threat, please, please, don't overreact. never heard it. >> so if you look at hayden's testimony in 2007, it does not match a lot of what's in this report, which we will ask him about coming up. but carole lay the president says we pay for the mistakes, that truly the extent the white house feels about this, just mistakes along the way? >> i think more what you are seeing is how they will approach what they see is a fraught, volatile debate and the president is sticking to his line that what happened is contrary to american values and in doing that, he is trying to avoid two issues. one is the legal question about

whether or not someone should be prosecuted. they are deflecting to the justice department on that. the sect e second is whether these tactics were effective. >> right. >> and they're saying, they're also avoiding that question and in doing that, they're trying to cut through the debate of the infighting that's happening and just stick to one line. the question is whether or not that's a sustainable approach. >> richard. >> i think it's also a porl question we have to ask. this was a morally fraug program. that was a program. i think it's important to understand that. right now we have a morally fraught program called the gun program, including signature strikes. i'm not sure what everyone know what is they are. signature strikes mean you kill people from above with a drone. you don't know who they are. you know how they behave. you try and avoid it. yes, there is collateral damage. it means if someone is driving around in tribal areas in

pakistan and they're driving around an al qaeda site and they look at the profile or the signature of a terrorist, ten they can be telling you without knowing exactly who they are or what they've done. >> nevada? >> from nevada. it is a program cloakled in secrecy, a program where we don't know a lot of details about it. a program where there is claims it's totally perfect and totally effective. we don't know how effective it is, but it's a program. if in four years or three years, we have a few way of looking at the program, are we going to then tear apart all the people involved in it. >> that's a great question. >> if so, maybe we should do it now? >> david ignacious, i know how you feel about it. i want you to turn around your point of view about this and ask the other questions, could this be completely politically motivated? was the report conducted in a fair way? did they talk to everybody they

should have talked to? how do we know the report is true? how do we know it is credible? if it is true and credible, former cia dreblgor michael hayden is lying. >> this report is stunning, as riveting as this, we'd like to be briefed for the prosecution, senator feinstein in 2009 decided that this story of use of torture by our intelligence agency was so shocking that she wanted to produce a report that was so daming that it would draw a bright red lean in our history and no one would use these techniques ever again. she's been quite saying that. so she gathered every document that should could probably show the program in a negative light. it turns out, there were many of them. the documents were gathered in terms of each asserted success for the program. she had her analysts go back and look, couldn't they have done it

another way to minimize the impact? she did not allow the people name in this damming investigation to defend themselves. i think that's one of the weak pieces if journalism, you do have a responsibility to say, what do you think, joe? worry saying it's about you. what's your response? so this is not a document that and his torian would write. at last contest, what people were living through as they did these things, what was going on around them not made really clear. >> that said, for what it is, it is still very valuable. >> very damming. it sounds like david ignacious is saying this is not a slam dunk. >> oh, no, because partially what david said. they used the rationale. there is a federal court case involved. so they couldn't talk to cia personnel without prejudicing the court case. >> which is true, in the last few months, they were perfectly

able do that. >> that clause is actually no longer valid. >> reading between the lines, a large part has to do with tension between dianne feinst n feinstein, which heads me to ask you, david the report and for feinstein yesterday and the florida senate reading portions of the report on the floor. she has been on the intelligence committee for quite some time, when do you think she knew about the program when she began the report? >> yes. >> or years ago? >> well, the question of how early she was briefed is not, has not been made clear. the intelligence agencies, cia and the dni have been saying there were regular briefings of the eight meeting members of congress throughout this period, president bush may not have been briefed. but they will cite the date and details of what people were told going back to 2003, '4, et

cetera. there are some quotes that have appeared in which senator fine stein seems to be important, do it right. these are things we wouldn't want to do. but the country is in a crisis. that's what many people are quoted at the time having told cia briefers that came to see them. it's important what life felt like for all of us in 2002, 2003. so, you know, it's typically the case that congress wants this, it's delling with oversight, looks at every question except congress's own role. >> yes. >> they have kind of exempted themselves from supervision, from criticism. that's a mistake. and this report is an especially daming example of that, to know what congress didn't do, how congress could have helped do a better job of policing us along the way, it would have been essential. they drop that completely. and that's a mistake. >> david, thank you. richard engel thank you very

much. still ahead, we will hear exclusively from the department official who reviewed the legality of enhancement techniques. also, former cia director, michael i had isn't our guest on the cia interrogations report. also with us, senator scott and joy behar. plus the finalists range from the ferguson protesters to taylor swift. later this morning, we will bring you "time" magazine's person of the year. you with watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup. then amerivest gives me back their advisory... stocks. fees. fees.

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. >> it's time now to take a look at the morning paper. we will start with the los angeles times. it's authorities have indicted an person citizen for allegedly planning attacks against holly sites in jerusalem. the suspect, ieflded as

30-year-old adam lubbock of tngs, obtained explosives. he is currently undergoing a psychiatric evaluation. we look at this in the "new york times," bernie madoff long-time assistant was sentenced to six years in prison tuesday for her role in the former stockbroker's $20 billion ponzi scream. they said instead of realizing she was committing quote despicable crimes. she was found guilty of securities fraud and tax evasion in march after a trial, one of the longest in u.s. history. >> the supreme court ruled employers are not required to pay employees for time spent in security checks at the end of their shifts. the lawsuit stems from an amazon processing center, where employees face up to 30 minutes a day of screening to protect the company against theft. a workers union is seeking overtime and back pay for the

time, given that it occurs at the end of the work day. the ruling protect itself other companies like apple and cvs health works are facing similar lawsuits. usa today, academy award winner, cuba gooding, jr., will star as only j. on fx, a new crime story, it will star actress sarah paulsen who will play marsha clark. american crime story, the people versus only j. simpson will start next year. >> this is based off an american horror story. it will be interesting to see how is it plays out. youtube released its list of the most popular videos, which includes, views, shares, comments, a menacing pooch takes the no 1 spot. that's the devil baby, i think. >> i want to see the baby.

. >> aaahhh! . >> that is such a good video. it's so mean. >> a cute, furry little thing. >> no, it's not. >> oh, stop it. >> youtube says the video pulled in more than 114 million views in november.

also appearing on the list was the iphone 6. >> i want to see the baby. >> the devil baby attack. there it is! which has been viewed more than 37 million times. >> oh! >> that is funny. >> kind of looks like you, barnacle. >> what? >> come on, really? oh, go get a furry cute little thing. >> oh! >> stop. >> that's not even funny. i can't laugh, you guys. >> all right. >> coming up on "morning joe," former director of the cia, michael i had isn't here with us for his first interview on the cia interrogation report. plus the must-see morning pages. don't go. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." [ music playing ] . ♪

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the cia cables related to the sessions depicted in the videotapes were and i quote a more than adequate representation of the tapes and,

therefore, if you want them. the description in the cables of cia's interrogations and the treatment of detainees presented a starkly different picture from director hayden's testimony. >> all right. hear with us now from washington, former cia director and nsa director, michael hayden, sir, very good to have you on. we appreciate you taking questions this morning. the senate report about tactics, you, sir, are giving misleading information to congress. i'm going to ask first of all our panel identify yourself when your questions come up. there is a lot of us here if washington. i will start with some details on that, what we heard dianne feinstein talking about, sir, there definitely is conflict between your testimony in 2007 and what this report has come out with, specifically pertaining to waterboarding and

i could -- sexual abecause but also injuries and death. in this report, there appears to be far more injuries than you indicated in your testimony and there were at least two deaths. so i go es the question is, sir who is telling the truth? >> well, i was telling the truth. i was describing the program that was in existence at the time i viewed the testimony. the program that had i think at that time 97 people in its custody. the two deaths, although they happened in cia custody were not in the zrims. nafbl, i told the members the reason we started the program i was telling them about is because the agency has performed so badly with what i think david ignacious described earlier is this kind of ad hoc battlefield program that they had begun in afghanistan and make up the

committee'sed that reports on the two deaths. they had the ig reports of the activities earlier in the program. everyone knew that the program i was briefing was created as a result of how bad the agency had begun to do the work early on in the war. >> so everyone knew, the hypocrisys we will tauch touch on here, does that make it all right? are values being represented well by conducting these tactics that someone would call torture and murder? >> first, put the two deaths aside, they have been prosecuted twice. they were not a part of this program, deeply regrettable. in agency custody, different circumstances, but we'll put that aside. let's get to the program we are talking about. the one that we went to

president bush for the issues to perform in late 2002. all right. let me be very candid, we thought we were doing the nation's will. in fact, having lived through the period and looking back on it now, i think this was, indeed, about the nation's will and what you got here is a small group trying to say, oh, oh, it was never about us. it's just not us. it's not us, it's them. they did it. frankly, that really is hypocriticalal. >> is it you to determine what the nation's will is? >> no, we got a system. yeah, we get to elect the president we get to elect a congress. we have an attorney general and in all these activities, the president authorized them, that congress was briefed without ejection. we carried them out. how else are we to know the

will? you have a covert action? >> general hayden, good to talk to you. >> hey, richard, hi, good to see you again. >> when does dianne feinstein know about this? did she know in detail years ago and did she express the same kind of outrage and opposition then that she is expressing now? >> i believe the first time was december of 2006. i believe she was on the committee then. but she had not been a part of a gang of four who had been thoroughly briefed on the program since its inception. i pay have the specifics wrong there, at least if 2006 and certainly in 2007 that's the testimony that she made multiple references to yesterday. keep in mind the scenario here, guys. i become the director in may of 2006. i'm the one who goes down in the white house and says, we need to put this program on a broader political footing. we need to bring in all members

of the committee and frankly some of their staff as well. this thing can't have an on-off switch based upon our off year elections him we feed an off year political consensus. i'm willing, not because they were unlawful, i'm willing to take some of the activity off the table in order to build this broad consensus. that's water supposed to happen in that 2007 briefing to the committee that senator feinstein. >> is it specific details? >> she had the details of the graphic nature of what was going on at the time and at least 2006? >> 2006, i'm almost certain 2007, absolutely certain, i recall i actually gave them a list with the 30-some detainees who had had enhanced interrogation techniques with the 13 techniques and little

lexis in the box. >> "wall street journal," carole lay, go ahead. >> i had two questions. one it sounds like you are saying if retrospect if you lad to do it over that this was a program that you would still support in general. then, second, what kind of impact does something like this, which highlights some obviously very negative action taken by cia officials do to morale at the cia at this point, particularly coming on top of things like the nsa revelations? >> yeah, look, when a cia officer agreed to do some edgy thing on behalf of the republic and frankly that's all they do. it's how stuff gets tossed to other agencies. that cia thinks if he's got the presidential authorization, congress has been briefed. the attorney general says it's okay. the director says this is a good thing to do. good stuff will happen if we do

the well. the case offer thinks he has a social contract. not with the administration, but with the nation. when things like this happen, david ignacious made reference to this, when things leak this happens, the cia case officer happens, nobody thinks, they got my back. at some point in the future, we're going to need these officers to do something or we will go to these officer and say, well, what can you do? that young kid in the back row after having watch this go on, he will be a little reluctant to raise his right hand and say, you know, i have been thinking here, it's a little edgy, that idea will go. so we will end up with a central intelligence agency that's chilling. the very charge that was made against us right after 9-11. >> mike barnacle. >> general, do you think what took place was torture?

>> no, legally not. mike, you and i talked, you and i came from i think similar religious conditions. we understand the generalized use of the word "torture." but what we had to rely on here, as a part of the next, was, did it or did it not meet the legal definition of torture? and pike, once you got to, it does not quite meet the legal definition then you got to ask the question, is it effective and appropriate in the circumstances in which we found ourselves and the circumstances in which we found ourselves were 3,000 dead countries. >> so you were with the nsa from 1999 to 2005, you were the director of national intelligence, 2005-2006. then you were the director of the central intelligence from 2006 to 2009. was it your belief all along intelligence trail throughout your employment at the nsa, dni and cia, was it your belief that

president george bush new the details of the program early on? >> it was my understanding, certainly, in the nsa program. he and i talked about it before we launched it. it was not something he would buy or forget. i wasn't there for the personal briefings of president bush. i just ever you to the president's own auto biography, in which he said he personally approved the waterboard. >> we have the washington post's david ignacious with us as well. david. >> i want to focus on what mike barnacle was asking. if you read the report, there is a key passage just before the first waterboarding in using, 2002, in which it is said da after the president's national security adviser, condoleeza rice, has been briefed on detail of the techniques that will be used the president will not be briefed. in other words, there is this effort to in effect protect him,

give him deniability. is that the way it happens and if it's the way it happens, how can you be confident that he actually knew of and approved these things that were by your account being done in his name? >> yeah, david, i'm sorry, i wasn't there i don't know the dynamic. i don't know what private conversations they had all i can say is when i got into the program, in very late 2006, is that the president seemed to be up to speed. >> sir, i want to ask you, because obviously in so many ways, it's not black and white. what are the risks in this report that you think pertaining to our national security west virginia are the risks of not releasing it? have we not? >> let me go over the risk of religion is. let's double down and talk about

the secretary of state and the national intelligence. threats increasing, two americans in american facilities abroad because-of-what and how the report might be read. the second is the alienation of the intelligence services to cooperate with the united states. they do this on the part of discretion on the part of the u.s.. they do politically risky things. they understand we are reliable partners. not so much. they will see themselves in this report. there will be an offer lot of political blowback. i already talked about the cia because of something like this. add that to the reaction of our liason partners. you end up with a central espionage service in this country that is both timid. that's not a good hand going forward. now, the plus side, going forward, for god's sake, i

really want an authentic accounting of what happened. this is a big deal. we few we were on the edge. we few a lot of our countrymen would not agree with this. i would really like the facts to be out there. when this study was launched, mica, the charter fort said this study will have hearings and interviews and make recommendations. we are 0 for 3 when they opted for the 6 million document fish in order to pull out saying perhaps out of context in order to make what seals to be a predetermined point. be i the way, you and i have been talking now for about 12 minutes. you all have been on the air since 6:00 a.m. we talked about the report. you know, there are three reports that were issued yesterday so where is the commentary about what the government said, where is the commentary about the cia. president barak obama's cia said about the program?

>> we'll get to it. we have three hours. general michael hayden, thank you very much. we have shown some already. we really appreciate your coming on and taking all these questions, given in some ways that are very central to this. good to see you, sir, hope to see you soon. coming up, there is so much more as pike am hayden said about the cia interrogation reports to dissect, including the official who ruled on the legality of interrogation techniques. ahead, one staffer said jonathan gruber's architect of obamacare. it will be a lot of fun. apparently it was, we'll see how much, just ahead.

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the m.i.t. economists who claimed obamacare passed, in part, because of quote the stupidity of the american voter apoll jieszed for comment yesterday. jonathan gruber who denied being the architect of the affordable carable described as arrogant and inexcusable. >> an excerpt of these videos, making glib, to theless and sometimes downright insulting comments. it's never important to the make one seem important by demeaning others. i knew better, i know bettert, i'm embarrassed and i'm sorry. >> gruber also angered republicans by refusing to say how much money he received on consulting. up next, washington avoids another government shutdown, just in the nick of time. the time at the few do-nothing congress is a thing of the past.

senator tim scott and congressman raul labrador join us in our next hour. much more "morning joe" straight ahead. .

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15 billion! football has a season. baseball has a season. this is our season. . >> i think there was a lot of cherry picking going on. this was an investigation to

make sure these things were never done again. obviously, when you peck your conclusion, you can cherry pick your documents to make them fit. i think any president in that circumstance, given the information either as a cia representative or as senator fine teen thinks it should have been presented, the american president i think shill would have ordered these interrogation methods. >> that the a part of an exclusive with john yu, who approved enhanced techniques for the bushed a men strax. welcome back to "morning joe." we have david ignacious and mike barnacle with us. the editing manager of bloomberg, malhalperin and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. it's great to have you both. we can talk about the political side of this john yu with a critical character in this story. i want to warn everybody we will troebl e probably be talking about pretty graphic content in this story and throughout the show, i like this remind people

that andrea mitchell will be joining us on her reporting of this as well. the headline is the reaction at this point to the highly controversial senate intelligence committee on cia interrogations released on tuesday. it states the agency repeatedly deceived the white house the lawmakers and the public about it's methods and cia interrogations were ineffective and much more bult than represented. the cia is fighting back. director john brennan challenges see findings along side former directors who dismissed the findings and parred by errors. senator dianne feinstein spoke about the report yesterday on the senate floor in graphic detail. >> detainees were subjected to the most aggressive techniques, physically struck, typered, put in various painful stress

positions for long periods of time. they were deprived of sleep for days. in one case, up to 180 hours. that's seven-and-a-half days over a week with no sleep. the cia led several detainees to believe they would never be allowed to leave cia custody alive. cia detainees at one facility described as a dungeon were kept if complete darkness, constantly sackled in isolated cells with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for huh pan waste. >> the results of confusion of how many detainees existed. records show 1 fine, cia officials show there were fewer than 100. cia shows problem was kept in the dark with his first briefing taking pla is in 2006. four years after the program began. one memo claims the white house said to keep details of the program hidden from former secretary of state colin powell

because he pay quote blow his stack if he were to briefed on water going on. if 2003, the cia's chief of interrogations threatened to quit, running if an e-mail quote this is a train wreck waiting to happen. i intend to get the hell off the train before it happens t. five-year investigation also disputed claims the enhanced nominations led to information that located osama bin laden in pakistan. >> the committee found that the cia's cooers issive interrogation techniques were not an effective means of acquiring detainee cooperation. we took 20 examples that the cia, itself, claimed to show the success of lead interrogations. our staff reviewed every one of the 20 cases and not a single case holds up.

actionable intelligence that was quote otherwise unavailable, otherwise unavailable, was not obtained using these coercive interrogation techniques. >> all right, david ignacious, the issue of legality on many levels could be pivotal as we take a look at this we bunked in, we came in with a sound byte from john yu, you say is correct, al. >> john yu is the young lawyer of the question of the techniques the cia contractors opposed using. the 12 techniques that included waterboarding were real and acceptable and john yu wrote a memo, which had become famous as the torture memo in which he defended their legalitys, so when people like general mike hayden, later director of the cia, other officials say we were told by the justice department what we were doing was legal and

was not torture. they actually are basing that on the opinion that was britain by john yu? it's really interesting to listen to him defend that some years later. people, when you read the memo, read the techniques described you just almost can't believe a lawyer would have looked at it and said this is permissible going forward. but that's what happened in 2002. >> mark halperin, political motivations. can this be painted as one side attacking the other? there are certain key almosts that are not included in this report him you certainly could see it as politically motivated, could you not? >> it's ironic you would use the term to include cherry pick to describe the report, the defense by him and others, is also cherry picked. the report is flawed in some ways. the behavior of people at a time post-9/11, in security terms and somewhat understandable.

but they sacrifice perk's values in order to try to deal with a crisis situation. i don't think it's political to become seen in some ways it's political. the argument is a fair question. what are we hearing from both sides on capitol hill? >> mark hit on the key point here, which is this is about history, this is about how we will remember one of the ugliest and messiest episodes. so that has supported people in these techniques and people who don't. i think what you have seen on capitol hill is congress exerciseing its oversight role if a sober and heavy way we often tend to laugh at congress and say it's dysfunctional and doesn't do anything the same way. if you were there, i listened to

john mccain, a prisoner of war who said, take it from me, i know personally, torture does not work. it just added heaviness to this situation. i think that was a unique thing about this debate. we have not seen something like that take place in the senate in a long time. >> that, jeremy, one of the key questions coming out of this. mike barnacle will be looking at the. did the cia overstate the stes e success of the program? i mean, does it who,? that's a big debate, which i think has been stirred up. >> well, offer that question, i'd like the ask you, are you the only person who has been in two or three different theaters of war on the ground walking around, risking your life. in january of 2004, the united states grabs hasan gul. he gives up the fame of the courier al kuwaiti. seum psalm's courier the team that eventually brings seal team

6 to pakistan, january, 2004, april, 2011. that's a long time. could you speak to the degree of difficulty in gathering human intel in how we went about the long process with all of this stuff going on of finally getting to osama bin laden? >> i think history has proven conclusively, torture doesn't work. you don't get reliable information. you have to compromise your own values to do it. it may sound like an irrelevant example. an egyptian security official who is retired now, egyptians, by the way, have a long history of doing horrible things to people in their detention. he told me at the end of his career, he was open about it. he said, we tortured a lot of people. he said, it doesn't really work. it's what you do when you are lazy, it's what you do when you are desperate. when you don't know what you are doing. you don't have the right

intelligence. you don't have the right police work, it's lazy. >> it's sympathy for the people that did this in this sense, they weren't trying to make money, in some circumstance, some contractors were. >> doctor 85 million. >> the people in the deposit. they weren't trying to advance tear careers. they were trying to deal with a post-9/11 era. our democracy is threatened most at time of war and they tailed. >> hold that thought, andrea mitchell has a tight window with us, joining us from walk. she is on this topic. host of andrea mitchell. andrea, have you examples of bad information being ob distracted, correct? >> from the report on richard everything el's good point here, khalid sheikh mold came up with the idea and said they did not know culture, was run by two

psychologists from seattle, created a company, as you pointed out made more than $80 million and started making up stories that he could help them find al qaeda operatives trying to recruit african-american muslims, terrorists in montana and then there was a fake suitcase bomb. these were wild leads, false leads, that took time, money, fbi and cia resources and that only impedes the process of really finding the bad guys. i think the problem as mark was just pointing out, some of the others and people who spoke of you, certainly michael hayden in this previous half hour with you mica is the context venlth this happened right after 9-11 the classified findings from george bush to create the secret prisons and, you know, the enhanced interrogation tech folks the torture, whatever you want to joffrey lupul ka it,

that wasn't proven until later on, the fact is, they were told, this going to be another attack. no one, not i, not you, down there at ground zero as you were on that horrible day. none of us thought this was a one off. we thought this was the beginning of aers is israelis of attacks and that is the context and that is what the agency was told. they were not prepared for this. and the question, though, that the report tries to get to and i think the principle is that they did not go ahead and interview the official and give them a chance for their point of view. the question we are trying to get to is how much was this meeting took place, exaggeration. and, in particular, i don't think any of this would have happened, a 14-to-1 vote initially to approve the investigation. none of this would have happened if they were running the covert

operations had not defied white house justice department and cia orders towards those videotapes. that's why michael hayden had to go to the hill and say, let's give you these transcripts of the interrogations and see if you can recreate the fact that those tapes exist. >> david ignacious earlier we spoke with the former cia director michael hayden. you were there. i want to show you this part when we asked him about the discrepancy about his past testimony and there are many. i have a list of at least five between his testimony in 2007 and what's in the report. >> i was telling the truth. i was describing the program that was in intense at the time i gave the testimony. the program that had i think at that time 97 people in its custody. the two deaths, although they happened in cia custody, were not a part of the cia program that i was describing, the high value detainee program. in fact, i told the members that the reason we started the

program i was telling them about was because this agency had performed so badly with what i think david ignacious described earlier was an ad hock battlefield program that they had begun in afghanistan and, mica, the committees had the ig reports on the two deaths. they had the ig reports of the activities earlier in the program. everyone knew that the program i was briefing was created as a result of how badly the agency had begun to do the work early on in the war. >> david ignacious, you know, there are many with a lot of stature who say the methods used. some call those methods torture, were able to extract critical information that was useful. does this report credibly undermine those claims and did the cia completely overst., if not lie about the success of the method? >> the report works very hard to

demolish those claims. one of the strongest and most tendencious claims they are efficacious. watching general hayden, those were lawyerly answers to your questions. and one of the things is that the committee has found is that the cia didn't sometimes tell the fool proof, laurelly they answered questions. there were many details missing. director brennan in his statement yesterday admitted as much. the one thing i would note is on this question of whether these techniques are ever effective, it would make life a lot easier if they never worked. why would anyone ever do this

ghastly work of torture and i think what makes this omoral choice for our country, we have to be agnostic about what they contributed to the ability to find us on bin ladin, the cia insists that the key leads in finding the could bar who allowed them to kill bin ladin came, if part, from these harsh interrogation techniques, i think people that say never again, no mortarture, is it important to say you might be giving up information that may be valuable. it seems to me if you take yourself off the hook, you say, ah, well, it never worked. >> is it a terrible cycle if you use it and it doesn't work, then you got information if you are america, it creates more problems, right? >> if you have a rule that says this is against our moral and legal fabric, then you are

prepared to give up things it's not a ticking nuclear bomb i think establishing rules makes the sense the question is too easy to say, well, it's never effective. >> there is also debate about whether congressional critics and tactics knew they were being employed but close not to speak until years later. according to "time" meteorologist, nancy pelosi was briefed in the cia in september of 2002 about the enhanced intergiegs tech necks. pelosi said she heard about enhanced methods in 2003. but she was not told at the time waterboarding was being used. that's a position refuted by veteran jose rodriguez who in a washington op ed told her in 2002 that water boarding had been used. rodriguez finds falt with senator jay rockefeller, who says he participated if

briefings if 2002 and 2009. rockefeller says the briefings he received offered little or no insight into the agency's programs. richard eng em. >> well, i think that's one of the parts of this, that is not really debatable. this was a program. it was a despicable program. it's a program that when you read about, you are sickened to hear about this. and the sexual humiliation of these people and when you debate whether it worked or whether it didn't work, but to have a lot of politicians now playing babe in the woods, i think is a dangerous process here. this was a program that went on for about seven years. it was briefed. people were reprimanded because of the program. it had a long chain of documents with it. the budget was growing at the time. the president was aware, when exactly was aware is somewhat in

debate. but he was aware. so to have all of these people come out and say, we condition eknow, seems disingenuous. we talked about history, you mentioned, talked about righting history. i think it's about frameing history. the dark period happened. and when the movie is written five years from now about a post-9/11 era, protesters out for money, boating some people to death. with the government not really knowing about it except for a small click inside the white house or is it that people knew, they raised their hands. they were asking for intelligence, now, several years later, they are pretending that they had nothing to do with it. >> that will be one of the subplots of the movie when it's made, one of the underlying themes in these reports, there are multiple reports is a combination of amnesia and hypocrisy which are married in this report.

and the report gives very little, very little taste of the context of the times. >> right. >> of that first year, after september 11th, you get very little feel for the context of fear and par foyia that gripped this. >> that's just an excuse, we were confused. for years and years, even when that fear. >> seeing the people in the government have to say, civil libertyings are more threatened than they will ever be. we need to protect the nation. we need to protect liberty. the cia needs to read the report and talk about what which can learn from it. not try to discredit it. >> andi andrea. >> i think one of the big issues is what they know and when they knew it. the report relies on cia memos of what they said to congress and what congress has in the committee and memos of what the cia says they said to the white house. so by not looking at the white house, by not interviewing any

of the officials and going beyond that is limiting themselves, limits the per view of this report to what the cia wrote down and that is one of the factors. so they gave us george bush didn't know until 2006. they did not know that condoleeza rice and dig cheney said something to them. they had a trail from the cia saying don't leak quotas. whether or not he knew. >> that seems very 15. davidic nacious, andrea mitchell. thank you all. mark, jeremy, a lot to talk about this. still ahead, congressman raul larksd senator tim scott and comedian joy behar will be with us. we will reveal "time's" pick of the year and one of the more controversial passages in her new book causing a huge stir. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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. it's time now to take a look at the morning tape of the charlotte observer. carolina panthers quarterback cam newton suffered a broken back after a two car crash yesterday afternoon near the panthers stadium. the team says the quarterback is in fair condition with two lower back fractures. it's uncertain at this point whether the injury will keep him off the field. he was held for overnight observation but is expected to be released today. >> it's a tragedy, to have a truck in the passenger's side cave in. it's so unfortunate. >> absolutely. >> look at this out of the washington post, they say a change will be made for lena dunham's new memoir. originally, this book contained a story about dunham being raped by a classmate named barry at overland college. so her description of barry closely matches an actual student of the same name. however that barry has since

denied committing the crime. future edition. the book will note barry is simply a sued name. >> this book has got some issues. didn't she have problems goggleing her sister. >> what created a stir, she created a description how she would treat her sister. >> being bad. >> overwhelm a kissing position. >> yeah. no, it's look at the very least it's a little disturbing. >> describes her behavior as being close to a pedophile. >> i'm not sure about that. but maybe. yeah. i don't know, it was very, this book has issues. >> it's controversial. >> a good confident read. >> a stocking stuffer. >> okay. >> this morning, we have another look at the new bloomberg politics poll, this time focusing on the national football league and how parents feel about their children playing sports. more than half of those polled believe in 20 years' time, the nfl will be just as popular as it is today.

when it comes to tear kids, though, 50% don't want them to play competitively, 43% do, that's going to be a huge difference going forward. >> i know a football mom. >> high school parents. >> we cringe, watching football games. because we are worried about concussion. it seems like -- >> a lot goes back you think the year has become soed a vanted. so it makes for the better. it's the bicker hits. you get guys 6' 3," 40-yard dlash colliding at high speed. >> no thank you. all right. coming up, it's probably not a good sign for our faith in congress when it's big news that they're not going to shut down the government. the latest from washington. congressman raul labrador and chuck todd next on "morning joe." you owned your car for four years.

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report. a beautiful sunrise over washington, d.c. him welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd, we

have thomas roberts with us as well, chuck, let's go big pick. what are we looking at here? david ignacious talks about a moral choice to have our country. i don't think we have a choice, this is one issue. do which everybody get one? it seems like lawmakers who are shocked today might have known about a lot of what was going on. are we looking at war crimes? torture? possible prosecution? >> that's my next question. it's not a question for dianne feinstein, do you want the justice to look into this? what's next the fallout from this i think is north america is for better for worse are probably not going to be as reactive to this positively or negative will. will will be the sweep under the rug mentality. it's impact overseas i think will be a big deal. i think that, you know, we as america want moral high ground of what freedom is.

what democracy is and there is going to be a lot of fallout from that in the treatment of our diplomats overseas the treatment hopefully not and potentially the treatment of our military. >> that is definitely a national insecurity issue. i want to go to jeremy peters. first, let me bring up a tweet from joe, actually, who likens this report to the" rolling stone" article him he said this, senate intelligent report, investigators refused to interview the accused. sound like the rolling stone's journalistic story. there is some major gaps. jeremy, before i get to you, chuck, in terms of talking to the key players, do you find it to be flawed? >> that's the cia's big beef. i think it shouldn't go on notice that this entire report is that the senate and democratic investigators did, was entirely made up of cia memos. so in the cia, if they were truly trying to hide all of this, wouldn't have documented

them all. now, yes, we know they destroyed some evidence. we know this destroyed some videotapes of some of these interrogations. but it is all of that. so i don't know whether you praise the cia for keeping this, but the fact of the matter, that is a fact. they did not. all this entire report is made up of cia documentation that said, so in many ways, it is the senate democratics are almost sifting and co lateing through cia memo. i think the decision is not the interview people. the question is, would the cia have allowed it? that's that next step. >> jeremy, i cut you off last block, how do you see it playing out on capitol hill, are those who are truly claiming they didn't know about this stuff and they did. can we say that? can i say that? >> i think it is what nancy pelosi knew what george w. bush knew are the questions just like all the others in this report that i think are ultimately never going to be answered

satisfactorily to partisans, because everybody has kind of retreated into their corners with their own set of facts on this. i think that's one of the unfortunate likely results of this, is we are never going to have resolution about whether these tactics were effective and whether they save lives. >> fair enough. okay. we will get more on this i promise i will get to you. we will come back to this. we will shift to immigration as president obama defends his executive action to shield millions of undocumented immigrants from deportation. during an interview with telemun do, they asked the president about his remarks last year is that it would be a violation of law to shield people from deportation. >> moving the issue of politics aside, what legally changed? >> you know, i think what changed is that having done what we did with the kits, my argument was not that we did not have some additional authority.

my argument is i did not have the authority to simply not deport as you will recall oftentimes that was the demand that was played on me. >> we have a capitol hill hill member, republican congressman raul labrador of idaho. it's great to have you with us. we have this interview and we saw an interview earlier from jorge ramos who challenged the president in the term. what do you think of the president's language in trying to clarify what he's been doing about his immigration stance, immigration policy and his executive action? >> even the washington post said this was an action without precedent. the president said 22 times that he didn't have the authority to do this. he wasn't just talking about deportation. he was talking about the specific action that he took. and i think it's unfortunate that now he's changing his mind. at least one thing is clear now. maybe the media needs to stop

talking about this he doesn't understand constitutional law. so he's no constitutional scholar. but for him to take this action without precedent, he tried to use the bush white house and the reagan white house did this. but the washington post, which is no conservative newspaper said that this is completely untrue. they gave him four pinnochios for the things that his white house were saying. >> mark halperin. >> congress in the new congress in january, if there were and up and down vote on the senate passed immigration reform in january, would it pass? >> i don't think it would pass. i think immigration reform can't pass the house of representatives. i don't think the senate bill would pass. for one simple thing. the senate bill did something that the reagan amnesty did. which is it granted amnesty today with promises of enforcement in the future and we know what the result of that was. when we granted am necessity under reagan, there were 3 million illegals in the united states. now we have 11 to 12 million illegals. i don't think anybody in the

house of representatives on the republican side wants to see that again, to just grow the number of illegalles in the united states exponentially. we want to fix the problem. we have a broken system we have a system where people that want to come here legally are not able to come. we want to fix all these things. in fact, we have started doing this. this is the biggest line on the president telling the american people. the house republican versus done nothing. we actually passed legislation out of the house that would have fixed high-tech immigration. he said he would veto that legislation. we made proposals to fix some of the things we needed to the and he said that unless there was a comprehensive bill that the senate passed, that he would veto all those pieces of legislation. so he has never been willing to workt the house on our step by step approach. >> congressman, i know you are averting a shut down. a lot of people are happy about that. they want their holiday. but there's a couple things that got shoved in here without debate. one is the political party, instead of raising $32,000 a

person can now raids $, can now collect contributions of $320,000 per individual per year. the major national committee. where is the debate about this? i'm, you know, this sort of happened yesterday. wrfts the debate? >> there was no debate. that's one of the reasons i will vote no about this bill. you have a 125 page bill. i'm not sure i am against what you indicate. this is the first time i hear about it. the problem is we have a 125-page bill i think posted last night at 11:00 at fight. we're supposed to vote on it by tomorrow. i think that's outrageous and it was bad when the democrats were doing it. its definitely bad when my own party is doing it. >> all right. congressman raul labrador, thank you. chuck todd, stay with us if you can. coming up, the next guest questions the timing of the intelligence report. senator tim scott joins us when "morning joe" returns. and we will reveal "time"

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go, go, go! go power oats! go! cheerios! go power! go...power! yayyyy! here it is now, from capitol hill, senator tim scott, good to have you on the show this morning, sir. >> thank you, mica. it's good to be back on the show. >> all right. jeremy peters, have you the first question. take it away. >> good morning, senator. i think if you listen to what mitch mcconnell the incoming majority leader has been saying ability what the first types of votes you are likely to take will be he talked about some things that will be divisive and

will not get the repeal of obamacare, a 20-week abortion ban. if aspirations are to become a national more inclusive party? >> that's the legislation that you will seek about coming out of the senate the first 100 days. we'll emphasize the importance to lifting the american people. i think you will see in that a keystone pipeline you will do something that's important for the american people. the vast majority for our country still does not like obamacare. now, we all know the threshold requires us to have a super majority in the senate, which we probably will not get to. it's the legislation, but it is for us to look forward on what we believe is in the past

system. things like the medical device tax. the ability to remove the tax is important to those who use the devices, restoring the 40-hour workweek appears an opportunity for us to see not only a cut in wages but to hopefully stage wages in our nation and eliminateling hopefully the ipad with what i call a rationing pad. >> another topic of the day, the senate report on enhances interrogation they call it, torturing down it wasture, yes or no? down it was legal? >> i'll tell you what i think about the overall process. >> did you say no? >> i have not spoken on that at this point. the timing was bad, increased or enhanced threat we have because of the democrat report is concerning. i think we would all agree that

using torture is inappropriate. however, i would tell you that i'm not sure what anyone would do if faced with another 19-11, what would be authorized? so certainly without question, we should hold ourselves to a higher level of value on how we interact with the world. we certainly should not expose our allies to this report and the challenges that will come with this report. it certainly denigrates the character of many people. >> sir, do you have an opinion on this? >> yes, i do. without question. >> is it torture and is it wrong? >> let me say it one more time. i think we all would agree that torture is inappropriate, should not be used. however, i think it's very important for us to realize the context and the timing of the decisions being made, who would not go -- if they were faced with another 9-11. >> are you saying torture is wrong unless it is right? >> i'm saying without question,

i think torture is wrong, no question about. that i am also indicating there is no question, given the severity of the situation, decisions were made. congress was informed. the white house was informed. their decisions moving forward to protect american lives and 9/11 was something i had not had to face yet. i don't know what the decision would have been had i been there. i do senator hayden said he made the best decision. >> senator the cia itself in a statement admitted it did make mistakes. >> absolutely. >> what mistakes do you see as the cia having made conducting this program? >> obviously the whole conversation around torture has been brought to the sfats, all of us said using torture is no question the key conversation from my perspective is we have a democratic report remember there is a republican report and a cia report that is a challenging situation for the american people.

there should not be partisan politics as a part of understanding and appreciating how to create transparency with the federal government and the american people, having multiple reports does not get that done. >> senior, thank you very much for being on the show the morning. still ahead, we will join the likes of gand ghandi as "time's" person of the year t.ancier is next. . -- the answer is next. ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac.... ♪ ♪ look here, daddy, i'm never coming back..... ♪

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given the fear and the local stories here in america of

about -- and, you know, we often did not i think fully show exactly what they do. >> well, it's an interesting problem. it's like we paid attention to the story at exactly the wrong times. the attention needed to be paid early on. instead, it sort of -- epidemic was able to spread. so our story really highlights people -- many of them on the ground in places like liberia, sierra leone, who started early and started fighting this disease. it's important to remember we as a world are very capable of fighting and containing infectious diseases. the fact this epidemic has gotten out of control is a man made problem. part of our goal is to look forward and think, you know, what happened this year. how this is going to affect us going on. >> the ferguson protesters, vladimir putin, taylor swift -- see, we thought -- we weren't

wrong to think it would be her. >> with a twist. >> okay. jack ma. he's an english teacher turned founder and ceo of alibaba. and roger goodell. what a mix of people. so what goes into making this decision? >> so we are looking at the entire arc of the news of the year. we are looking at the people who affected the news for good and for ill. there's a lot of people who we would have a lot debates about. someone like putin. putin had a huge year. i would say a lot of people weren't very happy with what people did. so we talked a lot about the capacity of these individuals to affect the news and what they did and lasting ramifications. >> define we. how many people were in the room? >> it's a small group. it's always been an editorial choice on the part of "time." >> do you make the decision?

>> no. if i did, it would be my mom every year. >> that's fair. >> we have a long legacy of this. the first person of the year was named in 1927 and it was charles lindbergh. you mentioned a few. gandhi, martin luther king. there arep presidents, many heads of state. these people are not familiar to us. this is very rare for the franchise. usually, it's a very familiar person. we're trying to bring to life the very news making achievements of people whose names you never heard. but it's a small group. we reach out to past persons of the year. notable people in various fields. but, you know, as "time," we're a general interest publication and we cover all sorts of news and that's why you'll see cultural figures and other kinds of people. >> tell us the the story one of the ebola fighters would gets a focus from you. >> the man on our cover is a doctor in aed jerry brown. he is liberian born.

and he early on heard reports of an ebola-type illness spreading. he was afraid literally as he says in one of his interviews, he was afraid it had the potential to wipe his country off the map. he set up his hospital's chapel as an early ebola treatment holding center. and has been treating patients throughout the epidemic. and now has -- he calls them graduation ceremonies for people who survives the disease. >> that's an incredible story, wow. thank you so much. up next, the wide range reaction to the scathing report on cia intergreat lakes tarogat. plus, when working overtime does not pay it the supreme court ruling that will have a big impact of the employees of some major companies.na in the country. we operate just like a city, and that takes a lot of energy. we use natural gas throughout the airport -

for heating the entire terminal, generating electricity on-site, and fueling hundreds of vehicles. we're very focused on reducing our environmental impact. and natural gas is a big part of that commitment. emma, it's simple, when you are in a place like this, the best way to capture the moment is to feel it, even if you can't see it.

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good morning. it is wednesday, december 10th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. white house correspondent for "the wall street journal" carol lee. nbc news foreign correspondent richard engel on set. columni columnist, associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. we're going to get to bill karins and the weather in just a moment. tlaeps a lot going on there. we're going to talking about some pretty graphic content. given everything, it's really

impossible to get around it. that's a little bit of a disclaimer. hard to get around it. because reaction is pouring in to the highly controversial senate intelligence committee report on cia interrogations that was released on tuesday. it states the agency repeatedly deceaived about its methods. were ineffective and much more brutal than represented. the cia is pushing back. director john brennan challenge, key findings alongside former directors who dismissed the report as one sided and marred by errors. senator feinstein chair of the senate intelligence committee spoke about the report yesterday on the senate floor in graphic detail. >> detainees were subjected to the most aggressive techniques immediately. stripped naked, diapered, physically struck and put in various painful stress positions

for long periods of time. they were deprived of sleep for days. in one case, up to 180 hours. that's 7 1/2 days. over a week with no sleep. the cia led several detainees to believe they would never be allowed to leave cia custody alive. cia detainees at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use. >> there was confusion about how many detainees existed. records showed at least 119. cia officials stated there were fewer than 100. cia records show that former president george w. bush was kept in the dark with his first breeching taking place in 2006, four years after the program began. one memo claims the white house said to keep detail, of the program hidden from former

secretary state colin power because he may, quote, blow his stack if he were to be briefed on what's going on. in 2003, the cia's chief of interrogation, threatened to quit. writing in an e-mail, quote, this is a train wreck waiting to happen. the five-year investigation also disputes claims the enhanced interrogations stopped imminent attacks and led to information for obasama bin laden in pakist. >> the committee found the techniques were not effective in acquiring active intelligence or gaining detainee cooperation. we took 20 examples that the cia itself claimed to show the success of these interrogations. our staff reviewed every one of the 20 cases and not a single case holds up.

actionable intelligence that was, quote, otherwise unavailable, otherwise unavailable, was not obtained using these coercive interrogation techniques. >> okay. let's start with david ignatius in washington. you say, david, this was necessary to release for public accounting but what about national security? >> i found the report absolutely devastating. we've known about these techniques. we've known about this chapter in american life. but to see what it felt like for a young cia medical officer observing the first water boarding. the sense of sort of revulsion that officer felt. to read about how groups of younger officers watching the interrogation of these people would break down sobbing, they were so upset to see the person you described who was running the interrogation program,

describe it as a train wreck. very, very powerful. you realize just how unprepared the cia was for the task interrogating the suspects and the mistakes that flowed from that. is this a fair minded report? i think that's one of the questions. to me the tone was almost prosecutorial. in every instance, there was an effort to look for the worst construction, the possibility the cia had willfully, deliberately misled congress, misled the executive branch. i found that unconvincing in some instances. for example, the claim these techniques were entirely ineffective. cia officers had said for years you just can't know what -- a part of the process of investigation led to the details that allowed the breakthrough that targeted bin laden in

abbottabad. this report has gone back and seen if you could have found the pieces of information some other way and then said, aha, it was available from another channel. that's sort of looking at this history through hindsight. the question is whether it's really fair to the people doing it. >> there's also the criticism this could actually create more problems for us to release it all. we'll get to that. we'll table that in a second. michael, i'll go to you. the question i have is how damning this report is, how credible it is. is it proof people are lying? is it only proof someone is lyinging? >> i don't know the answers to those. it's incredibly damning. there's no doubt about that. you've been around the block. so two questions. one, was there anything in this report that surprised you? and two, do you believe in your gut that president george bush did not know about this until

2006? >> first what surprised me most was just how unprepared the cia -- our intelligence agency was for the job it was given to do of interrogating these suspects. i mean, this really come also across as a gentleman's club. they have one quote from an officer in 1978 basically saying we don't do these thing, it's an abomination, why are you asking me. so they turned to two sigh cole jicht psychologi psychologists, outside contractors. you can see just how dig organized it was. they're just trying to create this out of nothing. that's striking. on the question of what president obama knew, there is the surprising claim that the first briefing president bush got in detail on these techniques was in 2006. long after the interrogations had been done. indeed, after water boarding was no longer used. what makes that slightly difficult to accept is that

there's also a memo quoted which was written two days before the first water boarding of abu zubaydah in which the national security adviser condoleezzabri techniques. condoleezza rice is briefed in detail on what they're going to do. and then it says in the memo a decision was made that president bush will not be briefed. almost as if let's not tell the president the details. he doesn't need to know them. we'll make this decision on his behalf. in past cia scandals back to the '50s and '60s, you find a similar pattern. and i wonder if that wasn't the case here. >> look at what the culture was there. by the way, those contractors you mentioned, they were paid $81 million in total. >> a staggering figure. and upsetting. $80 million of our money to do these terrible things. >> so before we get to richard

engel, carol lee, here's john mccain reacting. take a look. >> i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. i think it's an insult to the many intelligence officers who have acquired good intelligence without hurting or degrading prisoners to assert we can't win this war without such methods. yes, we can. and we will. i've often said and will always maintain that this question isn't about our enemies. it's about us. it's about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. >> a lot of questions that i want to ask you, richard. let's pare it down to one of the key ones here. is this what we're looking at in these documents, torture and murder or tactics? >> i think there was a torture program that was being run by the united states. >> we're being told to be

careful with the word torture. because they're called tactics. >> if any other country did this to one of our citizens, we would call it torture. >> is it defined under the united states -- >> cruel and unusual punishment -- >> how about murder? >> well, two people died during this program. one of them froze to death. >> i'm just wondering how we described that. a mistake? >> well, mistakes. you weren't supposed to be killing the people. you were supposed to interrogating them. the period is important to understand what you call it. it's important to understand what happened. after 9/11, not just the cia, this country went off the rails in many different aspects. the fact that we have this giant surveillance program right now is a direct result of this period. the cia started looking at ways to get more information. all the intelligence agencies expanded. had their budgets grow

dramatically. and now we're looking at what happened in this period right after 9/11. and there -- it's really quite disgusting. i think this report, the specific way these detainees were humiliated, often sexually humiliated, that is a big undertone in this. you see the anger and sort of the darkness that cape out. there are questions about whether it was worth it or not. it's important to understand, this was a program. perhaps the president himself wasn't briefed until later but his iner staff was briefed. if they decide not to tell him, maybe it was the wrong decision. give him plausible deniability. this was a program that went on for years. to pretend he didn't know about

it is hypocritical. >> did we know the extent? >> people knew the extent. but hearing them and seeing them in print from the raw transcripts is month more powerful than hearing about the programs. >> here's former cia director michael hayden, strongly criticizing the report. he says the enhanced intergreat lakes methods are not torture and the investigations was politicized. >> as bad as some people think cia behavior was with regard to these 100 or so detainees, if everyone on the planet used cia behavior as the model, the overall treatment of detainees on earth would actually improve. this report was supposed to have conducted interviews, hearings and give recommendations. it doesn't have any of those. i was in government for ten

years after 9/11. and let me tell you a phrase i never heard from anybody in any position of authority. whatever you guys do about this terrorism threat, please, please, don't overreact. never heard it, brian. >> so if you look at hayden's testimony in 2007 it does not make a lot of what's in this report. the president says these were mistakes. is that truly the extend the white house feels about this, just mistakes along the way? >> well, i think more what you're seeing is how they're going to approach what they see is a very fraught volatile debate. and the president is sticking to his line that what happened is contrary to american values. in doing that, he's trying to avoid two issues. and one is the legal question about whether or not anyone should be problems cuted. they're deflecting to the defense -- or the justice department on that. and the second is whether these

tactics were effective and they're saying -- they're also avoiding that question. and in doing that, they're trying to cut through the debate that -- the infighting that's happening. and just stick to one line. the question is whether or not that's a sustainable approach. >> richard. >> i think it's also a moral question we have to ask. this was a morally fraught program. right now, we have a morally fraught program called the drone program. including signature strikes. a lot of people -- i'm not sure if everyone knows what they are. signature strikes mean you kill people from above with a drone. there is collateral damage. it means if someone is driving around in a place like pakistan or in the tribal areas in pakistan and they're driving around an al qaeda site and they fit the profile or the signature of a terrorist, than they can be

targeted. without knowing exactly who they are or what they've done. >> from nevada? >> from nevada. this is a program. it is a program that is also cloaked in is being crease. a program where we don't know the details about it. a program where there's claims that it's totally perfect and totally effective. we don't exactly now how effective. but it's a program. if in three years, we have a way of looking at this program, are we going to tear apart all the people who were involved in it? >> that's a great question. >> maybe we should stop it now. almost turn the question around on this report. i know how you feel about it. i want you to turn around your point of view about this and ask the other questions. could this be completely politically motivated. was the report conducted in a fair way? did they talk to everybody they should have talked to? how do we know the report is true? how do we know it's credible? for example, former cia director

michael lahayden is lying. >> this report, as stunning, riveting, as it is, does read like a brief for the prosecution. senator feinstein in 2009 decided that this story of the use of torture by our intelligence agency was so shocking that she wanted to produce a report that was so damning that it would draw a bright red line in our history and no one would use these techniques ever again. she's been quite explicit in saying that. so she gathered every document that would possibly show this program in a negative light. it turns out there were many of them. the documents were gathered in terms of each asserted success for the program. she had her analysts go back and look. well, couldn't they have done it some other way so as to minimize the impact. she did not allow the people would were named in this damning investigation to defend

themselves. i think that's one of the real weaknesses in any piece of journalism, if you make an accusation about somebody, you do have the responsibility to say what do you think, joe, we're saying this about you, what's your response. so this is not a document that an historian would write. it lacks context. what these people were living through. what was going on around them. not really made clear. that said, for what it is, it's still really valuable. >> very damning. mike barnacle, it sounds like david ignatius is saying this is not a slam dunk. >> partially what david said. they abused the rationale. that there's a federal court case involved in this. so they couldn't really talk to cia personnel without prejudicing the federal court case. so i get that. >> in the last few months, they were perfectly able to do that. that clause was no longer valid. >> a large part of this has to do with the tension between

brennan and feinstein. which leads me to ask the report -- senator feinstein yesterday on the floor of the senate reading portions of the report on the floor. she's been on the intelligence committee for quite some time. when do you think she knew about this program? when she began the report? or years ago? >> well, the question of how early she was briefed is not -- has not been made clear. the intelligence agencies, cia and the dni, have been saying there were regular briefings of the eight leading members of congress throughout this period. president bush may not have been briefed but they will cite the details watch people were told going back to 2003/'04, et cete cetera. there's some quotes that appeared in which feinstein seems to be saying this is

important, do it right, these are things we wouldn't want to do but the country's in a crisis. that's what many people are quoted at the time as having told cia briefers who came to see them. it's important to remember what life felt like for all of us in 2002, 2003. so, you know, it's typically the case that congress -- it's dealing with oversight. looks at every question except congress' own role. they have kind of exempted themselves from supervision, from criticism. that's a mistake. this report is an especially damning example of that. to know what congress didn't do. how congress could have helped do a better job of policing this along the way would have been really essential and they dropped that completely and that's a mistake. >> the always outspoken joy behar will be here. plus, youtube has revealed the list of the most popular videos of 2014. we're going to tell you which

one took the number one spot. first, definitely not in the number one spot, bill karins with a check on the extreme weather we're seeing. bill. >> yes, mika, these storms are extreme. especially the one in california. this nor'easter we got done with, kind of typical you'd expect during the winter. still snow and rain right now in syracuse new york. northern new england did get some snow out of this too. much of central and western new york and northern vermont and maine. the snow is still coming down. the heaviest right in central new york. if you're driving over the new york state throughway, bingham ton or across from buffalo to albany, care from driving today. periods of brief heavy snow. now this storm, one of the b biggest storms to hit california in four or five years. when you combine the rain that will fall and the wind gusts. a lot of power outages expected. it's a huge storm. it has moisture connections all the way from hawaii to the west

coast. we're expecting anywhere in 3 to 6 inches of rain. even at the lower elevations. up in the mountains, they could get as much as 8 inches of rain. hurricane force at the higher elevations. even in the cities like san francisco could get wind gusts 40 to 60 miles per hour. this is going to be late tonight and then all day tomorrow. so california, you desperately needed it. you're in this historic drought. this is going to be a drought denter. you're going to pay for it with a lot of power outages and flooding ahead with this big storm. we leave you with a shot of a gloomy new york city. some low clouds around. we fared pretty well through this nor'easter. we'll take this one. thinking about what's ahead. more "morning joe" when we come right back. ♪ (holiday music is playing) hey! i guess we're going to need a new santa

♪(the music builds to a climax.) more people are coming to audi than ever before. see why now is the best time. audi will cover your first month's payment on select models at the season of audi sales event. visit audioffers.com today. ring ring! ...progresso! you soup people have my kids loving vegetables. well vegetables... shh! taste better in our savory broth. vegetables!? no...soup! oh! soup! loaded with vegetables. packed with taste. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, shopping online is as easy as it gets. carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online from a list of top-rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. they take us to worlds full of heroes and titans. for respawn, building the best interactive entertainment begins with the cloud.

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "los angeles times." indicting a man for allegedly planning attacks. the suspect, of texas, explaobt explosives. he is currently undergoing a psychiatric evaluation. >> we look at this from "the new york times." bernie madoff's longtime assistance was sentenced to six years in prison tuesday for her role in the former stockbroker's $20 billion ponzi scheme. the were criticized the decision. instead of realizing she was

committing crimes. one of the longest in new york's history. >> barnacle. >> employers are not required to pay employees for time spent in security checks. it stems when employees face up to 30 minutes a day of screenings to protect the company against thefts. a workers union was seeking back pay for the time. the ruling protects other companies like apple and cvs health who were facing similar lawsuits. >> "usa today," academy award winner cuba gooding jr. will star as o.j. simpson. the first season of the new fx show american crime story. the new series will also star actress sara paulsen who will play attorney marcia clark. >> this is based off of

"american horror story" and this will be interesting to see. >> where's the clicker. >> so we look at the -- >> you've lived it. >> youtube has released its list of the most popular videos of 2014. a menacing push takes the number one spot. that's the devil baby i think. >> i want to see the baby. ♪ [ screaming ] ♪

>> that is such a good video. it's so mean. >> it's a cute furry little thing. >> whoever did that -- >> it's historical. >> youtube says the video pulled in more than 114 million views since it was posted in september. also appearing on the list was the iphone 6. >> i want to see the baby. >> bend test. the devil baby attack. there it is. which has been viewed more than 37 million times. >> keep playing it. i want to see. >> that's funny. >> it kind of looks like you, barnacle. >> huh? >> what? >> please. come on, really? >> up next, i love this woman. >> who doesn't? >> who does not love this woman.

comedian joy behar who is starring in an auto biog graph call show called "me, my mouth and i" is going to join us next. is she going to keep it clean? >> i hope not. >> no, we're not going to do that. >> joy is? >> i hope so. >> no, i'm not even going to say it. >> she wants to talk about furry conventions with mika. and this should be very interesting because we're going to seat belt mika to her chair so she can't run away. we're going to take her shoes off. she's going to strap in and she stays. "morning joe" is ahead. yes.

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years ago, joy -- all right, welcome back to "morning joe." joy behar. she's starring in a one woman, auto bio graphical show "me myself and i." my mouth is not working. i love this show. i hear it's amazing. >> who told you this. >> lewis is here. >> you broke the internet yesterday. you went viral. >> what are you -- >> for your whole -- >> no, i said --

>> oh, the furries? zwri don't want to talk about the furries. >> we have to talk about the furries. >> they told me you wanted to talk about it. >> i wanted to talk about "me, my mouth and i." >> first, let's do the furries for a second. only because i found out from a spy that that is a sexual convention. >> well, not necessarily. >> oh, come on, grow up. >> furries -- >> he is rather young, joy. >> -- who like to dress up in animal costumes but they also go to these conventions to buy and sell art. they raise money for charity. you know, it was inspired by novels, fantasy, sci-fi -- >> no, but there are sexual elements. >> there are sexual elements in a lot of things. >> i promise when i ran off the set i wasn't thinking about what you all -- your mindsters are gutter. >> someone told me this. why did you run off? >> because look. >> i know, ridiculous. >> i'm sorry, i'm very sorry

about what happened. i am laughing at the concept. >> the concept is what? i don't understand it. people have to be in costumes to see art? that doesn't make sense. >> lewis, you are our furry reporter. what's a furry? >> furry is people who dress up in animal costumes. they like to role play. not necessarily in a sexual way. >> if you look at some of the pictures that have been texted and tweeted to me lately involving furry costumes and -- >> creative people. >> were they mad at you? >> they were mad and there was lots of sexual things sent to me. >> don't read that stuff. >> okay, i'm sorry. >> regardless, you were on perez hilton, e! huffington post. >> i never read anything negative about myself. >> we're trying something new here. we brought lewis in and joy is our first -- and you guys have already ruined it for me. >> sorry. >> all right, me, my mouth and

i, tell me about it. >> it's a show about my life. it's only going on this coming weekend and then next weekend. we're almost sold out i think. so people if you want tickets, come now. >> i want to take a look at it and then we'll talk. here is a portion of "me, my mouth and i" with joy. >> from the minute i could talk, i was encouraged by all my aunts and uncles to dance and sing and tell jokes. i was basically the tv set. that's right. i'd show up and be like, oh, joy is here. do that top dance you learned. tell some jokes. let me see you sing that song. there i am, 4 years old on the kitchen song singing "good morning heartache." i quickly evolved into the shirley temple of metropolitan avenue. it started off slowly but then it progressed to three shows a day. it was exhausting. i was running out of material. how many times can you make "on the good ship lollipop" sound fresh? i'm 5 years old and i'm like, hey, lady. i was quickly becoming addicted

to the attention and the applause. i was like human prozac for these people. >> okay, wow, you're good. >> thank you. >> when you were on "the view," it's a team and you're kind of ping ponging and there's a chance to sort of -- it's all on you. >> all on me. an hour and a half. so yeah. yeah, right. but the show is -- the show is also a little bit about the view. it's also about having been fired a million times. i was fired from good morning america. i was fired from "the view." i mean, things like that. have you been fired a lot? >> oh, my god. >> don't you think it's good in a certain way? >> i wrote an essay on how it was the best thing that happened to me. it's a very raw -- >> oh, it's horrible. >> it's a very -- it's really kind of throws you. for a loop on a number of levels in your life. it makes you question everything about yourself. i think women do that all the time about themselves. so it's like we don't need more. but it was rough. >> i always feel like i do

something to cause the firing. >> it's your fault. >> it is because it's an unconscious way of getting out of the job. that's how i always say it. it's like a marriage. you know, you just sort of shut down and then the guy leaves. and so bye. you know, some psychologists say a marriage never ends until the woman decides it's over. and i think that's not a conscience thing, it's freudian. >> we take it upon ourselves when we're fired, meanwhile, men go, i'm going to burn the place down, i'm going to start another company and beat them. >> maybe we should shoot ourselves up with testosterone. >> it is useful. if you can find your way out of it and find a new path, that firing is often really good -- >> it pushes you to the next -- >> all right, want to do some headlines with this? >> what do you got?

>> we're going to start with nfl commissioner roger goodell. will announce a new personal conduct policy to team owners at the league's winter meeting. here is an interview with the "wall street journal." >> he is set to unveil a tough new personal conduct policy on december 10th and he has also taken steps to start educating nfl personnel on matters of domestic abuse. you've kind of put them in training camp? >> to use an nfl term, yes, in the sense of making sure they understand the science so that, you know, you understand if others may be going through something what to do. bystander awareness is how we phrase that. and also the complexity of this issue. >> the new policy's expected to put players accused of domestic violence on immediate paid leave while an independent investigation takes place. >> roger goodell actually met with new york city police commissioner bill bratton and got a little advice from him on how the police department

handled domestic violence within its ranks. i thought it was an interesting thing. you got two commissioners meeting to approve the system. >> i don't like how it had to happen but i'm glad it's happened. >> it's alwayses about money. >> had to be a tape. >> goodell was also the quarterback for the bronxville high school team. >> i see him in town. it's awkward. i like the guy. that's all i'll say. i'm glad he's doing this. do you tip well? >> i do. >> do you, lewis? >> well, i give 20 or 25. >> is it bad to give 100%? >> well, that's a little tacky. they look at you like there's something wrong with you. >> there's apparently a gender gap when it comes to holiday tipping. a new survey from care.com finds 69% of americans give tips during the holiday season. more than half of the men surveyed say they give $150 or more. 44% of women will do the same. more than 50% of women say they feel guilty about not tipping. less than 40% of men feel bad if they don't tip.

and 15% say they argue with their partner about tipping for the holiday. i always tip too much. >> well, it's nice to do that. somebody once said to me, nobody turns down a tip. you notice that? >> you do not not tip. >> that's important. >> you must tip. >> you can help me with this. there's this poll that shows what airline passengers deem the most offensive behavior is in the sky. this is a survey for the travel site expedia. what are the worst offenders? >> you have the rear seat ki kicker. i would say that's probably willie. inattentive parents. that could be you or joe. you have the aromatic passenger. that's definitely barnacle. >> that's so mean against him. >> no, no. >> why, does he smell? >> we're not sure if showers are part of his hygiene. >> you have the audio insensitive, loud talker. that's joe. >> chatty cathy. >> poor joe. >> boozer. joy. mika takes vodka and she has it

in a glass without any ice. >> i'm not the boozer. >> are you afraid to fly? >> i hate flying. >> are you afraid to crash? i think it's more the point. >> we have one more story here. a fan at a detroit lions game witnessed a woman in front of him sending romantic tecxts to another man and alerted her boyfriend with a note once the game ended and now it's going viral. hey, bro, i don't know you and you don't know me. when you get home, check your girl's phone. she's been texting jason, saying she wishes she was with him all day, take care, wish you the best, happy thanksgiving. what? >> this is bro code at its best. it's guy code. he's making sure that -- >> so he read her phone? >> while he was sitting behind her. >> what a -- jason could be a 3-year-old for all he knows. >> exactly.

>> he should keep his -- mind your own business. don't be snooping in people's writings. >> i think that's ridiculous. >> where can we see your show? >> down in greenwich village, a fabulous historic street. i'll be there thursday, friday, saturday, sunday matinematinee. >> looks amazing. will you stay for the next segment? i think this is sort of working. >> there's the picture of me with my hand over my mouth. >> who is that? >> we missed the victoria secret fashion show last night. >> i killed that story. i killed it. >> i tuned in. what kind of a prime-time show is that? women jumping around in their underwear? i could not believe it. >> what year is this? >> good musical performances though. >> no, lewis, no. still ahead, a big beef with the company behind the largest ipo in stock market history. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, anchor for

wsbc in hartford, connecticut. i used to work there. i co-anchored with her husband. she made headlines as a teenager in a bold move to connect with her biological father. filed a paternity suit against her biological father, then the rhode island governor bruce sundland. finally met and appeared at a joint news conference in 1993. take a look. >> you can't wave a beyond and have a -- miracles happen. that happens in fairy books but not in real life. >> yesterday, he was described to me, excuse me, as a milk toast, as somebody who was hard on the outside but underneath was soft. >> cara writes about her -- she was 17 when she did that. about her incredible quest in her new book "finding dad," from love child to daughter. i can't get over how young you

were and how tough you were to do that. >> one of those things i had to do. maybe in part those tough genes from -- he was a tough guy. and my mom was a tough gal to raise me alone. they nmet in the '70s. she did it alone. when it came to wanting to know him, it took some guts to go after it. a lot of of whwhat you write ab my inner voice said it was going to work out. and it did. the reason why i wrote the book 20 years later, because it was such a big story back then. and was just talking about it from a tabloid sense. i learned you do stand up for yourself. you go after what matters. we learned if you have forgiveness, it's a magical thing. >> did he ever apologize to you? >> in moments. yes, he definitely expressed regret. to my mother, there was a moment when i got married to your former co-anchor that my dad talked about all the things he

was proud of and said, i can't take credit for any of that, her mother raised her alone. when i moved into his house -- >> was he married or something? >> he was kind of an in between -- he's been married five times. >> oh, wow. that's a lot of marriages. >> yes, when he found out about me, he had just gotten married for the third time. so it was not convenient for him at the time to have a child. and my mom back in the '70s did try. and what they ended up doing is settling out of court with a settlement for $35,000 and a promise to never call him again. >> whoa. >> what was the process of telling the story like for you? i guess some would ask why would you do it? why would you write this down? >> i learned that in that moment he said listen, i'm going to acknowledge you. he said, i want you to come live with me. how else am i going to get to know you. i knew right then i had to not beat him up for the first 18

years if i wanted that happy ending. i needed a father in my life. that lesson of starting over and listening to your heart was something, especially now where so many kids are growing up without a dad and feeling disconnected, i thought it was important to see what happened after. you watched "annie" and you know she lives with daddy war bucks but you never see what happens. you know, we just had thanksgiving with 26 people i never would have known had i not taken that leap of faith. >> how did you deal with the rage you felt against him for not being there? >> i think it evaporated in moments as we got to know each other. realizing we ordered the exact same ice cream or he started to show up for me in my life for my first job or for my children. >> so he made up for it? >> yeah. two young children. he became a wonderful poppy. that gave my parents an opportunity to be grandparents together, rather than just be ex-foes. >> a whole new world was opened up. now, i know your husband dennis

worked with mika a long time ago. >> he's is up a nice guy. >> i think he sent us some photos. i don't know if we have it -- >> some old school mika photos. >> whoa, look at that. >> i love the hair, mika. >> it's not the hair. >> wow. what are you guys doing? >> that's cute. >> you look like a skater. >> i tweeted that picture. i was -- just trust, neither one of us will have the same hair from when i was 17 or when you were not much older than 17 there. >> i worked so hard on that hair, okay. seriously. i have like carpal tunnel syndrome. great job. >> i wouldn't have written unless mika told me, you have to write this. and you wrote the foreword, so thank you. >> the publisher said no, so

what did you do? >> i went out and found another publisher. >> that a girl. ♪ earlyfit ♪ latefit ♪ risefit ♪ fallfit ♪ ballfit ♪ wallfit ♪ pingfit ♪ pongfit ♪ pingfit ♪ pongfit ♪ rowfit ♪ throwfit ♪ slowfit ♪ olliefit ♪ oopsfit ♪ otisfit ♪ thiswayfit ♪ thatwayfit ♪ daddyfit ♪ pappyfit ♪ datefit ♪ weightfit ♪ goalfit ♪ gooooooalfit ♪ stepfit ♪ stairfit ♪ smartfit ♪ heartfit ♪ spinfit ♪ bikefit ♪ hikefit ♪ yikesfit ♪ wheeeeefit ♪ wowfit ♪ whoafit ♪ findyourfit ♪ it's all fitbit i just received a text from ddiscover hq?. yep. we check every purchase, every day and alert you if anything looks suspicious. nice. i'm looking into some suspicious activity myself. madame that is not a changing table. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card at discover.com a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke. for years, jim's medicine tied him to

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time to talk about what we learned today. >> i learned about -- i got to tell a story. there's a legend in hartford. even in your 20s, you were a champion for women. there was a woman in your office who was maybe going to get fired, she was pregnant. you marched into our general manager's office and said, you cannot fire her, she's pregnant.

that was pretty big for you in your 20s. you've got to stand up for other women, i guess that's the lesson. >> i thank you for reminding us. that brings me back 20 years. go ahead. >> don't forget to tip for the holidays. that study showed men are more generous than women. >> well, they make more money. >> exactly. thank you, joy. what did you learn today? >> i learned not to sit next to mike barnacle on a plane. >> coadefinitely. i learned what a furry is and i'm very sorry to everybody. that does it for us at "morning joe." "the rundown" is next. have a great day. some of the tackics that were written about in the senate intelligence report were brutal. as i've said before, constituted torture in my mind. that's not who we are. >>