according to simmons, governor cuomo has now pledged to sign an executive order appointing a special prosecutor to handle cases of alleged police brutality. that is all for "now." "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" from detroit lake, minnesota. let's get to work. ♪ ♪ who do you work for? wall street or the american people? >> this isn't about a government shutdown. >> with only hours remaining, mind you, until the u.s. government technically runs out of money. >> keep our government open. >> we need to be able to hold funding back for who knows what else he's going to do? people in this country are begging the republican people to stop this man. >> the reason, unfortunately, is simple. >> we need to be able to hold funding back. >> i'm proud of the work that they've done. >> it's about money and it's about power. >> the christmas shutdown is not

a good idea. >> merry christmas. >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. okay, democrats, liberals, progressives. let's saddle up and let's be clear about this and not leave anybody in the dust. there is no budget that anybody can come up with in washington that would be good if it sets the table for the robert barons on wall street to do exactly what they did in 2008. why in the world would this country take that risk again. we start tonight with another possible government shutdown. this time republicans, they're handing out risky gifts to big banks on wall street. democrats not happy about this at all, at least some. this could result in another government shutdown. another $25 billion or maybe more. later tonight the house is expected to vote on a spending bill that repeals a key provision of dodd frank called the swaps pushout rule.

the bill passed a procedural vote earlier today, and the vote is currently stalled. democratic leader nancy pelosi says the delay is proof republicans don't have the votes and they better not have the votes. what budget could we have as a country to function if we took care of everything and we gambled with the future. president obama shockingly said today that he supports the spending billioning that this is in there. what? however, it's not clear what's going to happen in the senate. maybe since we still have the majority in the senate we can stop this thing, put this on their watch when they get control because this is a bad call for the democrats to have their mitts on it. the swaps pushout rule makes big banks separate the riskiest part of their trading from the fdic-insured accounts. that means if risky trades fail like they did in 2008 we need a refresher course it won't crash the insured part of the business. it also means you, the taxpayer

wouldn't have to pick up the tab for risky, reckless behavior on wall street. i thought we had enough of that. earlier today john boehner was asked about this provision in the spending bill. >> why should big banks be able to trade derivatives and have their risks covered by us, for the taxpayers. why should they be able to do that? >> i don't believe that to be the case. jessica? i don't believe that your description of this is the case. >> sounds like he went to the dick cheney school of communication on that one. a great nonresponse, a non-answer from the speaker of the house. i would like to know exactly how speaker boehner interprets repealing this key provision of dodd frank. one of the key democrats leading the charge to protect dodd frank is senator elizabeth warren. on wednesday night senator warren said this is all about republicans helping out their buddies on wall street. >> this is a basic safety and

soundness provision and it only applies to just a handful of the biggest financial institutions in this country. so what's really going on here? well, they can make more money if they can do all of this business under the umbrella of their insured operations. they want the american taxpayers to subsidize their risk taking. they'll take all of the profits when it works and push losses off on everyone else if it blows up. >> oh, the big get bigger and they just get to do whatever they want, right? sounds pretty familiar. don't forget in 2008 the american taxpayer bailed out wall street to the tune of $700 billion. how can we forget that? this is why we did dodd frank. the provision will prevent another massive tax-payer funded bailout on wall street. >> this is a handout to the big

banks. senator warren made this clear earlier again today. >> to republican leaders in the house, i would ask this, you say you're against bailouts on wall street. i've heard you say it again and again for five years. so why in the world are you spending your time and your energy fighting for a provision written by citigroup lobbyists that would increase the chance of future bailouts? why in the last minute as you head out the door and a spending bill must be passed are you making it a priority to do wall street's bidding. who do you work for? wall street or the american people? >> the fact citigroup literally wrote the provision is absurd, don'ts you think? this is what happens when big money buys big lobbyists in washington, d.c., the banks own the senate. despite the crash of 2008, this

country hasn't learned anything. to reverse the roles here a little bit. to put it in street terms or very basic sense here. okay, businesses. you've been in business before, you invest in products you invest in services and you invest in brands and personnel. that's what,es do. sometimes you lose, sometimes you don't sometimes they win. what about you and i? you the viewer and i. what do you say you and i go to las vegas to gamble in the hottest casino out there? we have chase. we have citigroup, wells fargo and bank of america. they'll back us up, right? none of the banks will be covering our gambling losses in vegas. basically what we have here is wall street. they are betting big with your tax dollars and now elected officials might let them get away with it. it's wrong and the bill should not pass. i don't care how sweet the

budget is, and i don't care how many caveats are in there or how many deal can be cut, congress cannot set the table for wall street to run amok again, we were on the verge of this country having a total financial collapse, worse than the depression and we want to go back to that? you see, the republicans, they want no regulation. they want no regulation because the boys on wall street line their back pockets when it comes to reelection time. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think, tonight's question, do you think it's acceptable for citigroup lobbyists to write laws? text a for yes, text b for no to 67622. chief a comment on our blog at ed.msnbc.com and i'll bring you the results later in the show. congresswoman maxine waters of california who sits on the financial services committee. congresswoman, good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. i know you're in the middle of this fight. >> i'm just delighted to be

here, ed, and i love the description that you opened the show with. you're right on. that's exactly what's happening and there's an attempt to give a big gift to wall street. we've got to stop it. >> all right. do they have the votes? where is this at this hour, congresswoman? >> well, i can tell you where it is. first of all, we had a whip mighting with the democratic caucus and the democrats were fired up to fight this and not allow the banks to come in here and wield that kind of influence. we said we were not going to back to where we were before 2008. we're not going to put our families at risk and we're not going to have all these foreclosures and we're not going to bring this country to the brink of the depression. so they were up on it and we left there and went to vote on the rule. we came within two votes of losing the rule that determines how you take up the bill and since that time unfortunately,

we are getting our members who are targeted and who are getting called and who are getting lobbied from so many people including the president of the united states who has decided that he would have this bill no matter what. it's wrong again, what you find is the big banks are saying to the members of congress, we rule this. we know how to get you when your back is up against the wall at the 11th hour. we're going come in and we're going to insist that we're able to do this risky trading and not push out this derivatives trading that we've been doing so that the american taxpayers don't have to back it up, and so the fight is on. 20 members just left my office. we're organizing. >> okay. are there some republicans who are against this. >> we don't know if there are republicans that are against this, but we are being told that

the republicans don't have their numbers to put this bill out for different reasons. you have some right wing republicans and the tea party republicans who are trying to del with the president on immigration. they are supposedly not going to support the bill and the republican leadership are sending a signal that they need the dechl democrats in order to put this bill out. if we put this bill out with the republicans then we certainly have abandoned all of those people out there who depend on us and are looking for us to stand up to democratic values. we cannot do this. >> you just heard josh ernst in the last hour on the set. we are urging the democrats to take this deal. why is the president so adamant to put wall street and our economy at risk just to get a budget deal. what do you make of it? >> you know, it is baffling and i think perhaps maybe he thins s he has to do this in order to keep the government open and the fact of the matter is if they

don't have the votes we can force them to take this mess out of the bill and come back with a bill that we can have a bipartisan agreement in. we shouldn't be resisting and fighting and thling them if you need democratic votes to put this bill out you're not going to get it. that's the only way to bring them back to the table. congresswoman maxine waters. good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. let me bring in bernie sanders, independent senator from vermont. well, senator, here we go again. we've seen this movie before, but i think the shocking thing in all of this is that the white house is telling house members to take the deal. what's your reaction to that. >> well, i think what they are afraid of is a three-month continuing resolution and the republicans then control the future of the budget and that's what they worry about, but i think what elizabeth warren and maxine waters said is absolutely right. look, the illegal behavior on

wall street caused this horrendous recession to deregulate again, to force the taxpayers to have to protect these wild speculations makes zero sense to me and that provision has got to go out, but ed, let me also tell you there are other aspects of this bill that are equally bad. should we as a nation which has so many unmet needs. kids can't afford to go to college and kids graduating, and a crumbling infrastructure and the disaster and the need to transform the, and should we spend 60% of the discretionary money in the military and in that bill is $600 billion for the military and laying the groundwork in the middle east. furthermore, we bailed out wall street and you made that point. you know what is also in this bill is a real attack on work s workers' pensions and you have workers in this country who have worked decades and decades with the expectation that they'll have say decent pension and this bill lays the groundwork for

saying to those workers, by the way, we changed our mind and we're cutting the pension by 30% or 50%. >> i understand it's hard. the republicans are negotiating and they want to protect the rich and it's true, but we can do better than the agreement than we presently have. >> say it passes in the house, senator. where is it in the senate? the democrats still have the majority. the president wants the budget. will there be enough democrats to say no to this? i will say a very, very loud no, ed, but i can't give you the answer. i don't know how many others will do that. >> you clearly would vote against it. >> absolutely. >> look, again. it's tough negotiating and they're only half the negotiators and there are so many onerous provisions and i think the american people want us to do better and believe they should do better.

>> the $585 billion of military spending, it's reported that a good portion of that is going to be to train tirian moderates for operations in iraq and afghanistan. now we as americans, it's look we're going down two roads that we've been down before that didn't turn out very well. and i know that -- >> and it's not a good proportion. it's 580 bill onis a massive amount of money. it's not a huge amount, but what it does is it lays the predicate for us to be continuously involved, forever, it seems to me, for a never-ending period in these bloody wars in the middle east, but the other issue is if you look at the military budget, huge cost overruns. huge amount of fraud with the defense contractors. we need a strong defense and we need a strong national guard, but i don't think we need to spend close to $600 billion.

we're spending almost as much as the rest of the world combined and enough is enough. we have unmet needs in this country that we've got to address. >> finally, back to the dodd frank. in your opinion, how important is that to keep that in there and to make sure that the democrats hold the line on this because what budget would be worth what we've been through before. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> this is, you know, the american people were furious. they had to bail out wall street because of their illegal, reckless activity and now wall street is saying, oh, yeah, we would like to go back to where we were before. we would like to have all of this wild speculation and derivatives and if it fails and you made that point, if it wins, we make a lot of money. if it fails taxpayers, thanks very much, you're there for us. no, we don't want to go back to that path. >> senator bernie sanders, good to have you with us tonight. appreciate your time. remember to answer tonight's question there at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter and ed show

and likous facebook. thanks for that. you have a lot to say about the good old days of wall street, deregulation. >> coming up, conservative utopia. remember the stories in detroit. detroit exits bankruptcy. tonight we'll show you who picked up the tab. plus dick cheney's back and he's throwing more verbal bombs. admiral joe sestak who is in military intelligence will tell us what he thinks of all of this. we'll be right back. why do i take metamucil everyday? because it helps me skip the bad stuff. i'm good. that's what i like to call, the meta effect. 4-in-1 multi-health metamucil now clinically proven

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itunes. it's free 24/7 and you can get it at ring of fire radio.com. ed show social media nation has decided. we are reporting. here are today's top trenders voted on by you. >> it's a sweater. >> the number three trender, oh, christmas sheep. >> we spotted the stylish ship and brought him to the humane society. >> he was wearing the softest, most beautiful sweater. >> i don't think it's a wool sweater. i think it's acrylic. >> he didn't buy the sweater himself. >> a festive farm animal is reunited with his family. >> the sheep's name is gauge. he's an indoor sheep. >> it was like losing my kid. i was scared and didn't know what to do. >> this is the first time gauge has gone on the lam. >> it is clear he's happy to be home. >> vw victory. vw says the company lz verified that the uaw has signed up at least 45% of the plant's

employees. >> hope it sticks. the 45% number now entitles the union to have regular face-to-face meetings with management. >> the uaw gets a big win over republican obstruction. >> the election in february was heavily tainted by outside influences. >> i've been fairly outspoken and i think it's a negative. it's about one thing. it's about money and it's about power. >> i am now part of the uaw who gives workers a say. >> in today's top trender. >> did the ends just my the means? >> absolutely. we asked the agency to go take steps and put in place programs that were designed to catch the bastards that killed 3,000 of us on 9/11 and to make sure it didn't happen again and that's exactly what they did. >> cheney throws bush under the bus over the torture report. >> the report suggests that president obama was not fully briefed on the program. >> not true. he was, in fact, an integral part of the program. he had to approve it before we

went forward to it. i think he knew everything he needed to know and wanted to know about the program. i think what meaded to be done was done. i think we were perfectly justified in doing it and i would do it again in a minute. >> joining me tonight is joe sestak, retired navy admiral who worked in intelligence and former congressman from pennsylvania. congressman, good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you. dick cheney, you bet. mr. cheney, very critical of the report and he admits he didn't read it. does that surprise you and how accurate is what he's saying, in your opinion? >> it doesn't surprise me. i think vice president cheney had already established what his position would be. ever since we went into iraq, that tragic misadventure, that and the means we use to extract intelligence from terrorists that we gathered around the world, he just wants to justify, i think he's wrong. if he's wrong, for no other reason, ed, that it exposes our military members overseas to torture. they might be liable to it

today, but this now permits others to say you did it. what do you mean we can't? that's one of the real tragedies about this. >> cheney says that bush was not only aware of the program, but he approved it before he went forward. what's your reaction to that? >> well, if president obama did not know about it, i think that says a lot on its own. he's captain of the ship. he should not what's happening, but that said, i think the real effort here by the vice president is to try just to cement the entire bush administration's legacy as a whole, that everybody was responsible for it, but, you know, i'm not going to judge anything on my opinion about what vice president cheney has to say. >> okay. >> how accurate is this? one of the claims is that no one involved in the enhanced interrogation programs were interviewed by the senate. what does that mean, as you see it? well, here's what i think. i think this report by the

senate committee is a good report, but it's far from a perfect report, ed. i think they should have, in a perfect world, interviewed individuals as well as looked at the douchlt, but here's what i think it says the most of, this is hindsight. it is not oversight and that's what this intelligence committee should have been doing as this was going on. if anything, this report speaks to is where was the oversight by congress in this effort, when it was happening as well as other efforts. i can remember being on the arms services committee in congress and for four years while i was on it and iraq was happening there was not one hearing on the war in iraq. what's that saying about oversight by congress? >> well, it seems to me that the bush administration had the just right where they of theed them and had the lawyers saying exactly ma they wanted to say and people in the intel committee that weren't curious enough and were believing everything that was said by the cia and these guys were given a

free rein. go ahead. >> that next to last point was an excellent one. what i found at times was that those congress members and be it transportation, be it intelligence or arms services were co-opted by the professionals so to speak within the agencies. they're great. they're heroes, but at the same time they've got their programs to protect and move forward. i think at times, particularly seeing how many congress members then go to lobby, so to speak, then you have to understand that maybe the oversight is also part of the representatives being co-opted by those within agencies. >> -- as a former military man and an expert and an admiral, does it -- what's your reaction when you hear dick cheney come out and say when you know torture is wrong, he denies it and he plays on the emotions of the american people, they killed

3,000 americans and calls them bastard and we had to do what we had to do and we protected and didn't get hit again. all right. that's true. we were mad and we wanted to get justice, but the fact is now we have to live with the way the arena was set up. and what this is going to do to our personnel worldwide right now, isis is cutting people's heads off and this is getting elevated and where does it end, admiral? >> ed, what you most want and whenever crisis happens in the military is a cool head. someone who can rise up above the emotions because usually the first word in any conflict is wrong that comes back and you need someone who can think through the long-term implications. look, the reason so many of our judge advocate core in the military, and our lawyers opposed the use of torture was for exactly the reasons you said. it opens up us to it even more in the future. i am grateful, though that

transparency has finally come about too farr long the road and anything that our government does, as long as it doesn't harm the national security should be open to sun light and say that's not who we are. we're better than that. >> i remember at the time, senator joe biden at the time talking about how we had to protect our military personnel around the world and we don't torture because we don't want our people tortured and now look where we are. i also remembered in 2006 when nancy pelosi got the gavel and the democrats took over the house, the left in the country was adamant about bush being impeached and i just wonder if the democrats tonight when they read this report, if they knew back then what they knew right now would they be in favor of impeaching bush and cheney and bringing them up on war crimes because they're all saying that this is such a tight report and it's very accurate footnoted by 38,000 notes. admiral joe sestak, good to have

you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. thanks so much. >> you bet. >> a major american city climbs out of bankruptcy. millions of people are still hurting and tonight the real story behind detroit and later, a badger bolts to the nfl. two-minute drill on the way. your questions next on ask ed live and we're back on the ed show on msnbc. siest airports in the country. we operate just like a city, and that takes a lot of energy. we use natural gas throughout the airport - for heating the entire terminal, generating electricity on-site, and fueling hundreds of vehicles. we're very focused on reducing our environmental impact. and natural gas is a big part of that commitment.

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welcome back to "the ed show," appreciate the questions from our viewers in our ask ed live segment. our first question comes from tejbir. ed, where in the world were you yesterday? i missed youed. >> oh, tej, you would sht want to be where i was yesterday. i had the 24-hour bug. i got a flu shot a few days ago and had a reaction to it. it might have been it. i hope that's not the case, but that was not good. just a sick day, you know what i mean? our next question is from maria. she wants to know will dick cheney now be indicted for war

crimes? >> no. it won't happen and that's the sad thing of it all as i see it. stick around. rapid response panel is next. i'm kate rogers with your cnbc market wrap. stocks gained ground and end off session highs today and the dow climbed 63 points and the s&p adds nine and it rises 24 help retail sales were stronger than expected. core sales, which exclude food and gas were up 6%, thanks to falling prices and increased spending on clothing. the number of americans filing for first-time jobless claims fell more than expected last week. filings dropped 3,000 to 294,000. that's it from cnbc, we're first in business worldwide. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion successful deliveries last year. 15 billion!

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welcome back to "the ed show," conservatives finally get their utopia. today the city of detroit exited bankruptcy under the approved resolution, detroit will reduce its debt by $7 billion. just like that. it's amazing. over $5 billion of the debt comes from leaving retirees out in the cold. >> i want to recognize the retirees who are taking some cuts through this. that shouldn't be forgotten. this was because people worked together. we had a unique outcome that is very positive in a very, very difficult situation. but people did make sacrifices. >> let's cut to the chase. retirees are getting flat-out cheated here. once again, the least who can do it are doing the most. the resolution cuts pensions and helps benefits for detroit's retired workers. what did they do wrong? governor snyder ordered to clear the way for privatization. now these guys are celebrating

the great success of a blankfeinable slate after screwing workers. that's what it is. >> bankruptcy leaves businesses with a clean slate. bankruptcy leaves cities with communities in ruin and that's what we have here. in detroit, the unemployment rate is double the state average. property value has plummeted. the city is hemorrhaging residents. residents still face water shutoffs. what a turnaround, governor. kevin orr officially surrenders control of spending and operations today and make no mistake, authorities still haven't completely shifted over to elected officials. all of the authority that they need. a financial commission made primarily of state appoint sees have oversight authority and the commission could stay in control for the next 13 years. a little caveat there. kevin orr hopes the radical legislature's stranglehold won't

end with his departure. >> my concern really is in the long term that people forget the lessons that oui learned over the past almost two years and start developing bad habits again. >> yeah. the lessons, hate unions and don't pay workers too much. joining me tonight on the rapid response panel and michael eric dyson, professor of georgetown university and msnbc political analyst and the detroit homeowner and political activist. both of you gentlemen with detroit ties. good to have you with us tonight. lee, what's the reaction in detroit to governor snider and kevin orr, basically patting themselves on the back for this big turnaround as if there's no hurt in the community. what's the reaction? >> the criminal activity that's been going on, you know, and them celebrating like this is a good thing for pensioners that we came to the table and sacrificed, they were threatened and coerced into making decisions that were not in their best interest, and governor snyder fails to acknowledge the

fact that those same taxpayers that he just stole money from to give to wall street billionaires, those same taxpayer gave the state of okay -- and none of that money made its way to detroit to stimulate the economy here and put those people to work to stimulate those tax dollars and that money went to shore up their financial inconsistencies and starve detroit of the immediate revenue they needed to make and pay its bills and under that, detroit didn't miss a single debt payment until the state came in and took over and put kevin orr in who then made a unilateral decision not to pay any of the city's debt which then forced the bankruptcy. >> that was off the table. >> and at the same time, kevin orr lives in a $2,000 a week penthouse for the money that he spent in the last two years living in penthouses and eating

caviar he could have bought a house in detroit and helped revitalize the community that he says he cares so much about. >> professor dyson what's your reaction to this? this pays for privatization and squeezes out minority community, doesn't it? >> it does and it's very shameful, i think, in light of the fact that detroit has been such duress that the billions of dollars that the monies that were spent in the effort to somehow reconstitute the infrastructure economically and financially detroit could have gone toward paying down the debt and, b, preserving the pensions that have now been sacrificed on the altar of this privatization and reorganization financially of the city. so the very people that were meant to be benefited by this who should be advantaged by this are the ones who are taking the, un, the biggest cut so to speak and those people can ill afford that. we didn't look at what corporations in the city can do. we didn't look at what major

financial institutions might be able to contribute. we did it on the backs of the very poor people and that's a shameful legacy and one that's dangerous because it will happen to other cities, as well. >> that is the key. i mean, it was picking on the poorest people. they had to serve it up. lee, what's the future look like for detroit's retirees of strong deal with this? >> erred, i don't know how they expect people to live off of the money that they were promised, right? when the bailout happened on wall street those contracts for those ceos were sank ro safrnif, and when it comes to the most vulnerable people in our community, our seniors and those contracts can be broken at will and they can be shifted to millionaires and billionaires. it will be millionaires and billionaires downtown and getting sweet heard deals and getting land for a dollar and being able to get exclusive vending rights to sell, to the suburbanites who come in to

frequent those establishments downtown and the city that held it together for the last 40 years will be forced to continue to pay even though they're the ones that should be receiving the benefits of any benefits that come out of this bankruptcy, the citizens of detroit who held it together should be benefitting from it and not those that decided to show up and buy low and sell high. >> we just can't let cities fall apart like this. we can't turn our back on american citizens. all those retirees, they paid their taxes and they abided by the laws. they did exactly what they were supposed to do and now they have to pay the price. >> and also, and -- >> it was a real mistake. >> and also the city is paying the price because if you look at it, last week we had a complete blackout of downtown because we refused to make an investment in the infrastructure in the form of tax dollars. as long as we keep giving more and more businesses tax breaks to move in our infrastructure

will continue to drum bell and not only just in detroit, but the state roads are shambles and this legislature and this corporate-controlled legislature refused to tax themselves to pay for the infrastructure they need to bring their goods, services and employees to market. >> rick snyder, the politico reports the governor will tour the country to talk about the bankruptcy as he looks toward 2016. dr. dyson, what's your take on that? this is the model, isn't it, for big cities? it is the model and shameful again because conservative financing is built upon the austerity that's imposed on the very poor who are least capable of observing it and rich and happy times for those who were up top. the redistribution of wealth upward into the coffers of corporation and massive financial interests are the powerful story of what happened in detroit and the tragedy is that the vulnerable will be made more vulnerable. >> when floods and hurricanes

come, we've helped people and when economic strive and job losses there, we just turn our back on them. i think that's wrong and michael eric dyson, it's good to have you both back tonight. still to come, america's biggest employer is slapped down for intimidating employees. the story ahead. keep it here. we'll be right back. account. before he opened his first hot chocolate stand calling winter an "underserved season". and before he quit his friend's leaf-raking business for "not offering a 401k." larry knew the importance of preparing for retirement. that's why when the time came he counted on merrill edge to streamline his investing and help him plan for the road ahead. that's the power of streamlined connections. that's merrill edge and bank of america. dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil.

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welcome back to "the ed show." this is the story for the folks who take a shower after work. a national labor relations board

judge has handed a big victory to walmart workers. they ruled walmart managers at two california stores unlawfully threatened and punished employees trying to organize. a union-backed group of walmart employees called "our walmart" filed the complaint with the labor board. it details actions in richmond and placerville, california. one manager told employees, if it were up to me, i'd shoot the union. the judge ruled walmart had unlawfully disciplined six richmond employees for engaging in a one-day strike back in 2012. and management had improperly prohibited other employees from talking to those six workers. walmart says it will appeal parts of the ruling to the full labor board in washington, adding, quote, we do not agree with some of the administrative law judge's conclusions. joining me tonight, robert greenwald, who directed the 2005

documentary "walmart: the high cost of low price." and also with us tonight, martha cellars, a walmart employee and member of "our walmart." martha, you first. what does this ruling mean to the workers of walmart, that something has been done, a declaration has been made that has come down on the side of the workers. what do you make of it? >> it's a victory. it validates what we do is legal and protected by law. so we can all stand together and make walmart a great place to work, a great place for the economy. i'm thrilled. >> were you subject to any intimidation, did you have any friends that went through hell? >> i had a lot of friends go through hell. personally, i've just had my hours cut. but that's enough. i've had three terminated from my store. i don't know how i'm still

there. >> you think that you're going to be able to stay there in the wake of this? >> as long as i keep fighting and as long as i'm the model employee, yes, i still have a job. >> mr. greenwald, this is just the latest example of illegal retaliation by walmart. what's it going to take for these workers, or should i say walmart to start listening to the workers and the workers to be effective when it comes to fairness in the employment arena? what do you make of it? >> well, i think the work that "our walmart" is doing and the workers who are courageous in standing up, and as we just heard, having their hours cut, people fired, but it is now official. it is illegal intimidation. walmart is once again breaking the law. many laws that they've broken over the years, from environmental laws, to driving small businesses out of business, to taking overtime away from workers.

but it's going to take the continued organizing and every single one of us, supporting "our walmart." this year, there was protests at over a thousand walmarts. that's a tremendous achievement. we have to build on that, keep going and call them out. >> martha, what do you think employees are going to do now? what do you think the reaction to this is going to be amongst the employees nationwide? this is a very unique ruling against walmart and the way they've treated employees. >> i'm hoping it will take the fear out of them. walmart's culture is fear. fear of retaliation. so this is proof they've been retaliating against illegally. so i hope it motivates people to speak out finally. walmart's been getting away with this for 50 years. it's our turn to put it back on the workers so that we can earn a decent living. >> do they train their managers to be hard on people? >> i don't know the manager training, but i would imagine,

the power goes to their head. >> what do you think will result of this? do you think there's a chance that "our walmart" will push this company to do more for workers? >> yes, we will. when more workers stand up and say, this is wrong, this is wrong, it's wrong for me. it's going to be wrong for my grandchildren and every else's grandchildren. if it's this bad now, how bad is it going to get ten years from now? >> mr. greenwald, you did this in 2005. did you know this kind of stuff was going on when comments were being made about shooting the union? >> yes. when we did the film and we investigated, we found out that walmart was hiring law firms, were putting up videos, intimidating their workers against talking to unions, threatening them, as martha said, creating a culture of fear. this is systemic.

it's not one manager here or there, it's in the dna of the company. it's built into the waltons, the walton family, which makes $8 million a day without working, unlike martha. they're not working for the money. and that's an important point to make. we have to support people like martha, keep organizing and keep calling out what they are doing and how they are doing it. fortunately, the law is beginning to work in favor of those who are doing the right things. >> this is one of the reasons why lamar alexander from tennessee, when they get the majority in the senate, they want to get rid of the national labor relations board. if that were to happen, what avenue do these workers have? >> well, they will have the avenue of protests, of economic pressure, of continuing to organize in different ways. but obviously, ed, that would be a tragedy and something that we will work and try and fight

against happening. but look, these workers are strong. like martha, they're fearless, they're tough, they're speaking up, they're losing their jobs, they're having their hours cut. but they won't be silenced. a thousand protests, that's a big, big deal. >> martha, don't you feel that this is the time to protest now that you've got a legal ruling to your side? >> absolutely. we need to do something large to follow this up with. >> well, this should set the stage for some more protests and some more people stepping up against walmart and sticking up for the workers. this is a big ruling, let's see where it all goes. it's going to be appealed of course by the company. great to have both of you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. we will follow the story. i will not be here tomorrow night. it's going to be michael eric dyson. we have a big weekend coming up in our family. kelsey and our son dave will be married on saturday. and tomorrow night we have the

rehearsal dinner and we have got the rehearsal. we can't forget that. we got to get that right, rev. go got to have the rehearsal, then the wedding and it's going to be a great weekend. that's the ed show. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> have a great weekend, i will tell the marchers you couldn't be there because of family business. >> true family business, brother, thank you. >> thank you, ed, and thanks to you for tuning in, where we start tonight with breaking news in washington. senator elizabeth warren and house democrats leading a dramatic fight to stop a give-away to the big banks. tonight, just six hours before potential government shutdown, a gop attempt to ram through a spending bill that guts the dodd-frank financial reformas