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reams of it. they were out to damage sony. okay. good morning everybody. it is friday. does it feel like it was a very long -- wow. there's like -- did you just drink down a bowl of cereal. >> we got a debate here. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> why don't we ask everybody. >> on capitol hill we have senior political editor and white house correspondent tim styles. >> he's not old enough to vote. >> i want him to be a part of this because he's actually the future. >> oh, god. i hope not. all right.

so go on. >> i was off a week. you didn't come to my birthday party. >> you want to set this up, mika. >> yeah. okay. executives at this point are apologizing over a series of racially insensitive emails about president obama. the e-mail exchange between sony pictures co-chair and producer was posted online following the sony hacking data breach. pascal asked -- >> we'll stop right here. mika thinks this is an invasion of people's privacy and that if we don't -- if everybody is so offended by jennifer lawrence's photos and kate upton's hacked photos, then we shouldn't be -- we shouldn't be showing -- >> hacked emails. >> hacked emails. she thinks that's as much an

invasion of privacy. >> i agree with mika. national security, the public has a right to know. i don't know what we gain by seeing personal emails between sony executives. >> they shouldn't have written these emails. i'm stunned. at the same time i wouldn't want people going through my emails in the past ten years. hell, i said so many stupid things on air imagine what i say off air or what people say to me. so maybe it is an invasion of privacy. especially since we're doing the bidding of north korea. come on. >> i think -- obviously it's an invasion of privacy. i don't think we need to show it. the lesson, the thought for us, for kids like sam is, you know, this is the future. this is the future. anything you put in writing, think about it, it's the harsh

reality. >> harold what do you think? >> i agree. >> don't show it. >> what do you think, sam >> i'm not a kid. i want to put it out there. >> you are to us. >> he has a dog, for god's sake. >> he tweets about it. >> to willie's point i remember back to when we got these leaked emails from the general manager of the atlanta hawks and they were racist emails about free agency luoudong. it illuminated a racist threat. i see utility in seeing these emails. i come at it as someone in the ne news media, i like more information. but if it was me i would be humiliated and there's stuff i don't want out in the public.

i see both sides. >> it sounds like we've come to a vote. let's go to the next story. >> there's one problem and that is that these everyone males do have a racial part of them and i guess you could call that valuable mindset. some of the information i believe that was released has to do with salaries. that could be valuable, especially salaries between women and men. this is a tough call, actually. >> question, because i actually had not seen the everyone males. i looked at the cover of the "post." was it as racist that paula deen did. where do we draw the line and not draw the line. i'm not saying these emails shouldn't be exposed. but there's tend to be a player who place for the philadelphia eagles who used racial slurs and still playing others get thrown out of their careers for life. >> what do you think? >> i don't think it's racist or

a little racist. it's racist. >> do you think these emails are racist. >> it sounds as if the context about his favorite movie, they were making presumptions because he's african-american, i'm presuming, he would like two movies that had heavy african-american themes. i think paula deen's situation is different and this kid playing for the eagles using the n-word, he was intoxicated at some party. i don't dlim be tclaim to be an on this. i don't want to do the bidding of north koreans and releasing these emails -- these are two people who supported president obama. so this is a great way to show racism. >> yeah. >> a number of african-americans from ferguson to staten island that would love that kind of racism, write me a $75,000 check and make fun of the movies i like to go see. >> let's talk about the reaction

to this cia report. >> this morning the cia director john brennan had an unprecedented news conference in response to a skacathing report. >> he said detainees provided information in the operation bens osama bin laden. he didn't say the intel was necessarily a direct result of using the methods. brennan deafed the agency while admitting mistakes were made. >> our reviews indicate that the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the united states thwart plans, capture terrorists and save lives. but let me be clear. we have not concluded that it was the use of eits within that program that let us obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them.

the cause and effect relationship between the use of eits and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable. the cia was unprepared to conduct a detention and inter rointegration program and our officers inadequately developed and monitored its initial activities. the agency failed to establish guidelines to govern the entire effort. in a limited number of cases agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be repudiated by all. >> democratic senator diane feinstein attempted to fact check brennan on real-time in twitter with the hash tag tread report she rejected brennan's claims it's not known if traditional intelligence methods would work and there was no cherry picking during the

investigation. >> that's not what senator bob kerry wrote in "usa today." here's a guy that served on the intel committee for years. his friends, manies there, he said i don't need to read the report to know that the democratic staff alone wrote it. the republicans checked out early when they determined that the counterparts started out with the premise that cia was guilty and then worked to prove it. fairness should dictate that the examination of documents alone do not eliminate the need for interviews conducted by the investigators, isolated emails, peopleos and transcripts can look much different when there is no context or perspective provided. obviously lie i like many americans disturbed by a lot of things contained in the report. but it is a one sided report where there's absolutely no context. >> that's not in dispute.

>> absolutely no context here. and you just wonder why they weren't interested -- they spent $40 million on this report and yet they don't -- they don't ask a single member that participated in that or all the cia directors that were directors while this was going on whether it was effective or not. >> that's not in dispute but people who are the focus of the report having news conferences and are not disputing the facts inside the report and what happened. >> i'm a liberal on this show. i have no problem with it, to be 0 honest with you. these are terrorists. we're trying to protect ourselves. you got to do what you got to do. i don't know if i'm turning into a right-winger in my old age. we're not privy to a lot what's going on in the world. i wonder how many people who lost friends and family -- if we

had done some of this earlier maybe we could have saved them. if you said to me tomorrow, it's a gray area but maybe doing this would save my children or my friend's children, i would go -- >> i don't think many people appreciate the context shortly after this attack the mood the fervor the appetite in washington and around the country for washington to do something. the questions that were being asked how could this have happened. how could this have happened on this president's watch. how could we not know terrorists came to hijack planes. they hijacked four planes. ifts easy to sit back now and they say they shouldn't have done this. i remember running into a porter after the attacks back in congress and he said it's amazing so many people who didn't support president bush, now he's supporting them. 85% of african-american voters approve of what he did.

they want all of us to be safe and protected. it's great to look back now and figure out how we don't do things that don't produce the right information. put this in context. you remember as well as i do. >> i do. that's what's so offensive, willie, to me these same people saying doing everything what's required, do whatever is required and now going back and acting self righteous. i think a bipartisan report would have been great. what we would have learned, we weren't ready for this. there were some excesses that are not consistent with american values that went on for the first year. we as a country screwed up. >> we're learning this too. >> but the thing is we don't have any context to that. this report, mika, it's an absolute disgrace. what's contained in it is a disgrace and the response is a disgrace and as bob kerry said,

he said the worst consequence of this report, and it's a democrat -- >> he was on the 9/11 commission. >> he was on the 9/11 commission and worked with diane feinstein said this partisan report contains no recommendations. this was a witch-hunt. how do you define a witch-hunt? you define a witch-hunt with a rolling stone article going after a fraternity without talking to the accused. this defines who we are as a country a partisan report where they don't interview the accused, in this case, who weren't frat boys, but were men and women they put on that wall. and said protect us. please. stop this from ever happening again. and then this is how diane feinstein treats them. by the way, i don't know if anybody paid attention we haven't been attacked since

september 11th. i'm not saying it's torture. everybody is against torture. the men and women of the cia did what they were asked and this is how diane feinstein repays them. >> it just wasn't smart strategically or politically. if you put out this report even if you interviewed the other side there would still be things in there that would be abhorrent to people in this country. there's examples of torture and you can point to and say we can't do this again. you can point back and say we talked to everybody involved. you still would have had your evidence. but now you have the evidence without the support of the other side so it allows people like us and others to torpedo it and call it into question. >> they don't want the truth here. what they want is they want a partisan conclusion that not only was this morally abhorrent but produced no actual intelligence. >> they are fighting the

content. >> who? >> the other side. >> how do you know they are not fighting the contend. by the way -- >> what die just show on the air. come on. they are not saying these things didn't happen. they are saying please look at the context and we should. and we're talking about it. >> if these things did happen and they did, i remember watching a video several weeks ago of a beast taking a knife to a poor defenseless aid worker to his head. this is what we're up against. >> we have to have higher standards. >> but hold on a second. sam stein -- >> there were no recommendations from this and the other question i have is the timing of doing this, it just doesn't seem -- if you're going to make recommendations that's one thing. if you're going to draw a picture and put assets around the globe in greater danger i don't understand the purpose. no doubt to mika's point you

find widespread agreement speaking against torture which we should but what are the steps we should be taking. let's answer the question what have we done for national security. >> exactly. when you have john kerry saying this was reckless it makes it even more suspect. diane feinstein did this in a way that, you know, before she got out of a power, in a way that after she's told by the democratic secretary of state that this will put americans lives in danger, frankly she didn't give a damn. and sam stein i don't understand why when, again, we know a lot of the stuff that happened here and as willie said if there were a fair bipartisan report we all around this table would probably agree. we shouldn't water board. we shouldn't do some of the other heinous other than donny, other than the heinous things that were done. let's do better moving forward. she didn't want that. this was a witch-hunt.

>> well there's a lot of impact here. i'm not surprised i tend to disagree with the entire panel. i think that this report serves a very important service for our country which is that, you know, we are party to international treaties banning torture. we have questions of our own morality and laws in this country. it's important to know did we abide by those in our darkest hours. you can question the timing. there's no good time to release a report like this. could she interview cia officers who were under investigation at the time for potential illegality, i don't know. >> could she investigate cia directors who were in charge of running the program and actually kept waiting for theory investigate them? >> i agree. >> how is this different, sam, than the rolling stone article -- sam. they go in with conclusions. they went in with conclusions. they were doing an investigation to actually fit into their

conclusions just like the rolling stone author. is that true or false? >> i want to say this up front because i agree the debate over how they put the report together matters and they should have interviewed these people but i don't want to it distract from the substance of this. we use these interrogation techniques which goes to torture. if you read the report we used them on a lot of people. we profiled this one case where we brought in this one guy and presumed he actually wasn't a high value detainee. what did we do? we did sleep deprivation for 56 hours. they then concluded he probably had been set up by an enemy of his family. said he should be released back to his home with money. instead of releasing him back home they kept him locked up for years. that's the stuff that's in this report. there's a value to knowing this. >> in context i can give you ten

other examples. i can give you 20 examples. i can give you 30 examples of people that they released that went back on the battlefield and killed americans. >> and that's the point. we have to figure out whether we have a good system of interrogation. >> here's the context. you hear that horror story. you don't hear the other ten or 20 or 30 stories. they have to make judgments in real-time. if we went back to world war ii and dissected everything that american generals did, i promise you -- if you give me $40 million i can take any general and turn them into a war criminal. give me $40 million, give me the democratic staff, give me the intel in real-time i can turn dwight eisenhower, general marshal, winston churchill, i can turn any of them into war

criminals. give me $40 million. i can investigate the fire bombing of dresden. the decisions we made to drop atomic bombs. >> war is ugly. >> you know what? the thing is we made mistakes. you know what? every country makes mistakes. we need to learn from them and that's what's so depressing about this report is it doesn't allow us to learn because it's so partisan. listen i'm a guy and mika you know we've talked about this for some time. i am i think more along harold's line than donny's line. i said for some time i remember what it was like on september 12th, 2001. i remember what these men and women were told. and so even coming in from that point of view we got to do to keep america safe. there's excesses here that's disturbing and we should learn

from them. but diane feinstein has taken that opportunity away from us. the senate intel committee took that opportunity away from us. they provide bipartisan report. which doesn't bring up the fact that diane feinstein was briefed on this and she didn't care at the time. she cares now. this is the worst thing ever. at the time, okay. >> she wasn't briefed in full. they say they weren't briefed on all of this because they were kept in the dark by the cia. that's part of the report. >> i think we have covered very thoroughly the fact that this report is flawed. we've also looked at the content. i don't think anyone here is saying it was all wrong. we shouldn't have done any of it. but we should along the way in our history look at what works and what doesn't over time. if you look at this compared to last wars and wars before we have evolved as a society and i think this is part of it. you have said repeatedly and

many others around this table, i know when we were on earlier this week and you weren't here, we talked about how it was flawed. we talked about the holes in it. we talked about the people they didn't talk to. we also need to talk about what's in i want because not a lot of people, in fact nobody is disputing these things happened. there are? anyone disputing this. >> we're disputing the context of how it happened. >> we talked about that as well. >> you keep saying nobody is dispute ppg i again can find a string of things that dwight eisenhower is responsible for and call him a war criminal. nobody is disputing -- >> i think that's a fantastic point. >> i keep saying that. >> i wouldn't deflect from the heart of the matter. >> why not? >> because it's valuable what you're saying and helps to put things into context but not like we haven't looked at it. >> yesterday john brennan the question here are these techniques a smart way to get

information. do they work. he said let me be clear we have not concluded it was the use of eits within the program to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them which saline that diane feinstein applauded. >> what happened is he said he got actionable intelligence from people that had enhanced interrogation techniques used against them but not going to do the cause and effect. he has before. yesterday was a brilliant political moment. >> it's possible. >> you can decide, this is the debate everyone can have at home. if you believe that mohamed would have revealed the structure of al qaeda if we gave him ice cream then you can believe that. i'm serious. let's have this discussion the day after the next attack and let's go to diane feinstein and see what she says the day after the attack.

if you want to believe ice cream would have gotten mohamed to spill his guts that's fine. we do need to group. there's a middle ground. some things we did we should never do again. i won't castigate the men and women who followed orders. they were part of this process. don't wash your hands of it p i ponius pila temp. >> more allegations levelled against bill cosby. also ahead congressman sean duffy, labor secretary tom perez and fashion icon andre leon talley will be here. but first do all dogs go to heaven? >> yes. >> except my next door

neighbor's dog going straight to hell. satan. >> let's read the tweets. >> it's what your neighbor thinks about your dog. >> why pope francis may be leaving the pearly gates open for man's best friend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. good morning everybody. we are about to make more deliveries to more places than anybody on earth. we have the speed. we have the technology. and we have the team.

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interrogati time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "new york times," president obama plans to approve sanctions on venezuelan government officials responsible for human rights violations against protesters who took part in anti-government demonstration thgs year. the bill was passed by the house and senate this week. the sanctions includes refuzing via sasse and freezing assets held here in the u.s. the "boston globe", a time capsule was removed from the massachusetts state house. historians say it was placed there by the likes of samuel adams and paul revere. the small capsule is believed to

contain items like old coins, documents, newspapers and a metal plate once owned by revere. the hope is for it to be x-rayed and opened next time. >> pope francis has weighed in on do animals go heaven. though lie father said the pearly gates are open to all of god's creatures. while he was comforting a boy who recently lost his pet dog. that question has been debated for some time with many predecessors who say animals do not have souls and do not go heaven. >> all dogs go heaven. >> the "los angeles times" massive storm that brought widespread flooding and power outages to northern california is now moving south. it's a blessing and a curse for the drought stricken region that's in desperate need of rain. the pictures are incredible. nearly ten inches of rain was reported in one area. at one point the hurricane force winds knocked out power to more than 400,000 customers.

two deaths have been report sod far. bill karins is tracking this one for us. bill, what's going on >> we're getting breaking news from ventura county about 30 to 40 miles northwest of los angeles. this is of mud and debris flow into a neighborhood in camarillo springs. rocks and boulders surrounding the homes. people were evacuated from this area. if you notice that house in the back here that's halfway up the door is that mud. there's other reports online that some of the houses have mud up to the roof tops. so, again, a dangerous situation in that area. again the heavy rain has now shifted out of san francisco and right over the top of downtown l.a. and the concern, of course, is any of those areas that had those fires you can get those mud and debris floss. that one picture i showed you that fire was a year ago and now from the heavy rain just last night that's what happened. >> bill, thank you.

we'll stay on that. still ahead what the top opinion columnists are writing. jeffrey sachs is joining us for the must read opinion pages. going to be interesting. we'll be right back. just take a closer look. it works how you want to work. with a fidelity investment professional... or managing your investments on your own. helping you find new ways to plan for retirement. and save on taxes where you can. so you can invest in the life that you want today. tap into the full power of your fidelity greenline. call or come in today for a free one-on-one review. ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. ♪ ♪ my baby drove up in a brand new cadillac. ♪

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♪ every senator has the power to introduce legislation and until recently offer amendments. no single senator should be allowed to decide what the rights of another senator should be. that's tyranny. >> he had an amazing moment there yesterday, very emotional on the floor. let's get now to the must read opinion pages the director of the earth institute, economist dr. jeffrey sachs. >> make yourself at home here. donny is mixing a cocktail. >> anything else you want to do? some grooming, maybe? >> our friend chris writes in "the washington post" this. >> nancy pelosi lost on the omnibus vote. house minority leader nancy pelosi was on the losing side of the spending bell.

she made her point. that point? that she's tired of being forced to carry the water for the white house and senate democrats who she believes are in the habit of cutting deals without including her. i'm giving the leverage to do whatever you have to do. we have enough votes to show them never to do this again. but what nancy pelosi made clear while there will be more republicans in the house and senate in january nothing can get done easily without some portion of liberal democrats on board. point made. >> you certainly understand nancy pelosi's position. if you want her to be a partner you got to deal with her. and she was left carrying the water for a lot of people. let's talk about what was in that bill. jeffrey sachs, nancy pelosi, elizabeth warren very angry about some things in there that actually they believe make things even easier on wall street. >> they know. >> look, the whole bill is designed step by step to just chip away at any kind of

regulations on wall street so we're back to the pre-2008 rules on derivatives which got us into the huge financial collapse. very important news. now possible tos can be part of the vegetable mix for women and children. this is odd but -- >> that is odd. >> here we have an obesity epidemic in this country. what's the most important thing that congress can do? make sure that you go to the potato lobby and get potatoes into the program for poor children where obesity is enormous. it's step by step just trying to take away the environmental regulations, prevent the irs from being able to collect taxes, stop wall street regulation. that's the agenda. and, you know, nothing huge is in here. just chip, chip, chip. >> jeffrey, why then would the white house go along with this. this is not republicans driving

this. you have republicans coming in but nancy pelosi, elizabeth warren, ted crews were against this bill. why are so many democrats and the president of the united states supporting these measures? >> because as we talk about many times, washington is about lobbies, it's not about parties so much. the parties is the theater but the reality is that these lobbies, wall street is powerful in both parties and wall street has dominated the white house, it's dominated the treasury, it dominates both parties of congress and so we can't get any regulations to stick. same thing on the environmental side. we get the oil industry in there at every turn. and neither party campaign contributors like to pay taxes so irs keeps getting chopped. >> nancy pelosi wasn't happy with the white house. here's her making the point in her own words. >> here we are in the house being black mailed, being

blackmailed to vote for an appropriations bill. this is a moral hazard. we're being asked to vote for a moral hazard. why is this in an appropriations bill? because it was the price to pay to get an appropriations bill. i'm enormously disappointed that the white house feels the only way they can get a bill is to go along with this. >> i agree with her. having said that what's happening here politically? >> listen, i felt what nancy pelosi felt in dozens of appropriations bills. it's interesting she is saying what -- and i don't say this in a negative sense but what the most rabid tea party members have been saying in the past four years when they have appropriations bill thrown on with tons of spending and they say you vote this up or down or we're going to shut down the government. that's happened jeffrey. both sides do it.

it's a sick way to run congress where it was always so offensive to me where they would drop a bill like this that contained crap. then they say -- >> all the top to bottom. >> they define it responsible. you vote for this bill without reading it if you don't shut down the government and default on our bill. nancy pelosi unfortunately in this case because she's not in charge any more is the one having to deal with this. >> being blackmailed. >> when she was in charge she did at any time other way. >> you wonder why washington can't work. >> we can ask someone in washington coming up next. jeffrey sachs thank you. >> by the way. peggy noonan wrote an op-ed about torture and said who we are and actually i think we'll -- >> it's really good. >> fascinating report. saying never again. >> up next republicans are

begging for a democrat vote. president obama siding with the republicans much more on a very chaotic day. someone who was on the floor, congressman sean duffy father of like 85 kids, our guest next. >> name us some names. how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. wellllll... ♪

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states. having a report once in a while that tells the truth is not a bad thing. and this is the most unexamined agency and lawless agency that we've ever had in our history. so it's good to have a report now and then. it's a pin prick to them. you don't have to defend them. they will defend themselves. no one controls them. >> so noted. it's on the record. >> would you agree they should have made some recommendations for how they could conduct their business better. >> you know how hard it is to analyze the cia. it's a blank wall. presidents can't control that organization. nobody controls it. we should be aware how dangerous it is. they lie relentlessly. doesn't matter. they lie to congress. they lie to the president. they lie to the public. having a report now and then not bad for our democracy. >> all right. well done. here with us now from capitol hill republican congressman from wisconsin and member of the budget joint economic and financial services committee representative sean duffy. sean good to have you on.

>> kind of crazy on capitol hill yesterday. these are the sort of omnibus appropriation bills that republicans have hated for years. yesterday republicans passed one. >> but, joe, you have to put this into context. we pass ad budget in the house in seven of the 12 appropriation bills. the only way you go back to order if the senate and harry reid passed appropriation bills. the problem with the harry reid senate they didn't do that work. the only option we had was to do an omnibus bill. this is the last time we'll do it because we'll have a republican senate to deal with in january and hopefully do the work in that institution like we have done in the house. >> sam stein is in washington, d.c., sam. >> congressman, i'm very curious if you support the rider that allows these derivatives to be traded with taxpayer backstop essentially. >> yes, i do. here's why. what you have is you have median

size banks, regional banks that are products to manage risk, to manufacturers, to farmers, these are products that are use to help small businesses manage risk. these were not high-risk derivatives that brought now wall street in 2008. this is common sense stuff. what i'm happy about, sam, and i wish elizabeth warren had been talking about this. we took away the big bail outs for insurance companies who participate in obamacare and lose money. taxpayers are no longer on the hook for that and that's at that really good thing. >> jeffrey sachs is smiling. that means he has a question. >> take it, jeffrey. >> no regulation on wall street can stick in washington any more. >> that's not true. >> this is the basic point. you don't want to regulate the banks. you don't want to keep the financial crisis. we're doing what we did before in 2008. wall street is too powerful, too important, too big of a campaign

contributor and that's why you have jamie dimon there lobbying and get it through. >> i'll kick wall street every day of the week. i have no problem with that. but when you have manufacturers that need to manage their risk on interest rates, on energy, on currency these are important tools for american businesses that employ their families. >> why do they have a taxpayer backstop. >> what you want those very safe derivatives that help businesses you want them in the banking sector where they are regulated. you don't want to push them into a dark space where no one knows was going on with them or push them overseas. it didn't bring the crisis in the financial markets in 2008. it was mortgage -- the failure swaps that took place at aig. that's not this. something far different. >> sean thank you so much.

>> how is the baby. >> say hi to your wife and 17 babies. >> the baby is doing well. looking forward to christmas. santa is coming. >> santa will be flat broke. >> i like that baby. >> greatly appreciate it. harold ford? what do you think about this derivatives. >> i agree with the congressman for two reasons. one, i disagree with jeffrey that this will upend the regulations. what they were doing is pushing out a set of derivatives that were regulated before. the banks wanted to be covered under the federal insurance deposit now it will be regulated again and he's right. it benefits a different segment of the economy. it helps airlines hedge energy cost, helps manufacturers hedge costs and manage risk in a different way. we can go back and forth. i don't think this undos dodd-frank. >> another supermodel steps forward with allegations that bill cosby drugged her during what was supposed to be her big

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>> another woman has come forward with allegations against bill cosby. >> beverly johnson writes an article in the latest issue of "vanity fair" saying the comedian drugged her degree decades ago. kate snow has the story. >> reporter: beverly johnson was a groundbreaking figure a supermodel in the 1970s and now joining more than two dozen women who publicly accused bill cosby. >> she was a supermodel. she was the first black woman to appear on the cover of "vogue." she does not have anything to gain by coming out and making an accusation and in fact she has a lot to lose. >> reporter: johnson said she thought she was auditioning for a part on the cosby show when she went to her brown stone in the mid-'80ss. cosby insisted she drink a cappucino. she said i knew by the second sip i was drugged and drugged good. she said cosby expected her to bend to his will.

an attorney for cosby had no comment on these latest allegations. johnson says even when she heard other women come forward she still struggled with whether to tell her story. voice in my head kept whispering black men have enough enemies already they don't need someone like you and african-american with a famous face fanning the flames. she thought about trayvon martin, michael brown and eric garner. >> she wanted to combat the kind of skepticism about black males on one hand while holding this horrible secret. >> reporter: johnson writes i reached the current acamelback on african-american men has absolutely nothing to do with bill cosby. he brought this himself. cosby's attorney respond the defamation suit that we're confident we'll prevail. the court of public opinion is already judging him. >> donny, there have been a lot of women who came forward.

thank you kate. well maybe they are trying to get on the cover of a magazine. in this case, come on. this woman -- >> she has no incentive other than to tell the truth. >> having said that he's never been criminally charged. >> what number does it get to? i think beverly johnson is an example this is a very established woman, very respected woman who has nothing to gain other than telling the truth. >> donny would you put him out for an interview if you were advising him. >> no. what is he going to say? i wouldn't advise him frankly because it's a disgusting vulgar tale. but there is no move to be made from him other than hiding at this point. >> still ahead, why wasn't there more transparency between the cia and the white house during the period of enhanced

interrogation. we'll read from peggy noonan's surprising "wall street journal" piece. much more on "morning joe" straight ahead. it's more than the driver. it's more than the car. for lotus f1 team, the competitive edge is the cloud. powered by microsoft dynamics, azure, and office 365, the team can gain real time insights and instantly share information around the globe. when every millisecond counts, staying competitive begins with the cloud.

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geniuses. it's fascinating stuff. we have some videotape from the white house. look at this. ♪ >> to promote computer science education week president obama invited students to the white house. he watched as the kids demonstrated a program they developed that alerts users every time the president's approval rating drops another point. [ ding, ding, ding ] >> oh, my goodness. welcome back to "morning joe." >> make a point there -- whenever we see a grown man in a restaurant in a baseball cap you want to smack him. that was presidential moment. you see somebody that's like 46 wearing a baseball cap. are you little league? what is that? >> joining us at the table -- >> you can wear a baseball cap anywhere. >> i'm not talking sunday at a kid's football game but in a

restaurant. >> we have the president -- >> what about adults. >> they wear a golf cap. >> i don't wear a cap. >> you raise your group -- >> because we're not in london any more. >> okay. >> can you stop? >> so my friends if you're keeping score at home, donny deutsch is against baseball caps, right but for torture. so he's against baseball caps but for torture. >> unless you're wearing it during torture. >> donny deutsch is saying it's okay to wear baby gap black t shifts to show your muscles. 4ts. >> i cancelled my trainer today. >> thank you. we'll give you some exercises. ian bremer, the president and

founder of his group is here. former white house press secretary for president obama robert gibbs joins us. >> robert gibbs, how are you doing, buddy >> i'm good. let me say to donny i have a doctor that doesn't like my fair skin and tells me to wear a hat every time i go outside. so i would only say that if you got great fair skin like mine disregard anything that donny said and wear a baseball hat. >> i stand corrected. >> robert, we've been talking about the cia report, and what happened with john brennan. talk about the white house and what a difficult position you guys were in in real-time. you campaigned one way in 2008. the president gets the briefing. obviously a lot of people said hit an impact on him. and he made a lot of really tough decisions that every president has to make. talk about the -- yesterday with brennan going yeah we're not sure if this is good or bad.

he didn't want to out the cia or at the same time embrace what happened. talk about how difficult it was for this president who ran to be an agent of change when he got the briefing and figured out he would have to play "hardball" with terrorists. >> well, let me put this in two different segments. the job, obviously, that john brennan has as the director is to obviously defend his building and keep morale up in that building. every commander-in-chief learns when they get in there, they learn they have a much, much bigger job in terms of protecting the american people and i will say regardless of whatever briefing president obama got one of the first things he did was sign an executive order ending our use in the united states of torture based on his belief that we could get information that we needed through proper interrogations without the use of some of the examples that have been put in the senate

report. but i think there's no doubt, you know, if you look at the tempo of things like a drone strike or other instruments that have had to be used, you know, each president has to make that determination, and certainly this president has made the determination that some of those things are more effective than say sending in 5,000 troops. >> so let's look at the cia director john brennan's unprecedented news conference in response to that scathing report on interrogations. brennan said that intelligence from detainees subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques or eits provide information that was used in the ultimate mission against osama bin laden. he didn't say the intel was necessarily a direct result of using the methods. brennan defended the agency while admitting mistakes were made. >> our reviews indicate that the detention and interrogation program produced useful intelligence that helped the

united states thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and saved lives. but let me be clear. we have not concluded that it was the use of eits within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them. the cause and effect relationship between the use of eits, and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable. the cia was unprepared to conduct a detention and interrogation program and our officers inadequately developed and monitored its initial activities. the agency failed to establish quickly the operational guidelines needed to govern the entire effort. in a limited number of cases, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent, and rightly should be

rey re repudiated by all. >> diane feinstein attempted to fact check on brennan on twitter with the hash tag read the report. she rejected the lebron james not known if traditional interrogation methods would have worked and no cherry picking during the investigation. >> let's bring in another voice on this. former acting general counsel for the cia john rizzo. he's the other of "company man." john, good to have you on this morning. a lot to get to with you. let's start who knew what when. you wrote president bush was probably not fully briefed on the details and now we have just this week many members of congress coming out in light of this report saying oh, my gosh i'm shocked, i'm stunned, being very indignant about the report when many of us thought they were briefed from the outset from the start. who knew what was going on with these techniques at the moment they began. >> okay. hi, willie and everybody.

well i said in my book, willie, is that at the beginning of the program, when it was being conceived and about to be launched i was in the middle of all that stuff, and i did not personally and cia director george tenet did not at that very early time personally brief the president, president bush on the techniques, water boarding and all the rest. in my book i took issue with what president bush had said in his memoir is that he cited a very graphic conversation he had with george tenet at the beginning of the program of vetoing techniques. i had never heard that before. i talked to tenet once i read the bush book and george told me he never had any recollection of briefing the president right at the beginning. now, who he did brief right at the beginning was the vice

president, condoleezza rice, andy card, gonzalez his chief counsel. i would be surprised if one or more of them had not told the president about the techniques personally. >> what about on capitol hill. who was briefed on capitol hill, john? >> well, we briefed -- there was a procedure called the gang of eight which under extraordinary covert operations the president can direct that only the leadership basically of the congress including heads of the two intelligence committee are briefed on very sensitive extraordinarily sensitive operations. and so that was done. again, as soon as the program was approved in august and september of 2002 -- >> and one of those, obviously, porter goss who was in there along with nancy pelosi. >> right. >> senators porter goss and nancy pelosi from the intel committee, is that correct >> that's correct. >> so what was nancy pelosi

briefed on? was she briefed on the water boarding. was she briefed on all the enhanced interrogation techniques at that time? >> yeah. chapter and verse. all of them. in detail. the sleep deprivation. all of it. as was jay rockefeller, i should mention, joe. you know senator rockefeller has been out there decrying the morality of the program. he was briefed. he was part of that original gang of eight. and the point is none of them expressed any concern, opposition. the sense from all of them in those early days is this all you're doing. >> john, i wanted to ask you that question because i have from my time on capitol hill have quite a few contacts with people that were involved from the very beginning, and i kept asking did nancy pelosi, did jay

rockefeller, did they ever object, did they ever ask any questions? and to a person they all said what you just said is that no they didn't object and then they followed up by saying is this all you need? and you're saying the same thing that i've heard time and time again, is this going to be enough to get the information that we need? they asked you that question too? >> right. yeah. that was it. remember, joe, at the time shortly after 9/11 we were getting hammered, hammered by congress for having been too risk averse, too timid in the years up to 9/11. how could we have missed -- the reason we weren't tough enough with terrorist, weren't doing what needed to to be done, that was at that point in our country's history that's what we were getting killed for. >> donny, i said this yesterday. i remember reading one article after another the cia was too risk averse, bureaucrats took

over, never took any chances. i saw one op-ed after another saying if the cia is going to find out who these terrible human beings are that are coming and killing our people they have to make alliances and do things that we'll be uncomfortable with. said in real-time by democrats, by independents and republicans. again were there excesses? yes. but to judge these men and women in 2014 is despicable. >> i want to ask "the counselor" a question. we say we don't need these type of techniques to interrogate and get the information. how else would you get the information from any terrorist captured. i'm not in that business but i run a business, i'm a common sense guy. why would any terrorist whose objective is to basically annihilate us give up information unless they were pushed to the wall so to speak. i don't know how else you get it. am i missing something? >> no, donny, you're not. that was the dilemma.

ideally when you're interrogating somebody, the way to do it, normally is what the fbi loves to call rapport building, build a relationship with the guy you're talk, to get him to come around and you're his friend. what we're dealing with here was a bunch of psychopathic, unrepentant killers. how long would it have taken to build rapport with ksm? and even if it could have been done how the hell how long would that have taken before he says oh, gees, i like you guys, i'll tell you everything. it's crazy. >> john, thank you so much for wk us. john rizzo absolutely fascinating what you said. what you sidelines up with people i heard that were in the

intel briefings in 20027. also what he said too how long would it have taken? now today in 2014 we would say you know what we should have just waited and however long it should have taken we should have just waited. again but going whack to the context of september 12th, 2001, we all thought the next attack was coming in a week. we all thought the next attack -- >> compromised values at that point, core american values to ensure a little bit more safety was not being questioned by anyone across the political spectrum. if you wrote an op-ed like that you would have been killed by everybody. we need to put ourselves back in that mindset. >> it's not that like these people were abhorrent beasts -- americans were there. it's not like it was any different in world war ii when fdr had internment camps which was far more offensive, when

during the civil war lincoln suspended hapeas corpus. woodrow wilson what he did in world war i. we overreact. >> we as a country need to go back and apologize and make good and lead by example. that's what we have to grapple without throwing these people under the bus. >> does the report pep do that or further the divide? >> look i think it's important once the report was put together it was going to be leaked one way or the other. kerry was right to sort of make the nod and say oh, it might hurt us because you have to say that as secretary of state. i don't think it matters. implications in the middle east are relatively small. isis is the priority right now. there's a fairly large and robust u.s.-led coalition. they act like they've heard and seen this stuff before the leaders of those states unlike our own congressional leaders. to an extent there's a problem they said there's a problem it's actually the transatlantic relationship.

germany very different in orientation from the u.s. on all of these things on surveillance, on drone strikes, on china as a security issue. certainly on issues of torture. the germans are leading europe right now and i've never seen a transatlantic rift quite as great as we have today. but it's the transatlantic relationship that built the u.s.-led global order. if i was obama, if i were congressional leaders that's the single relationship i would be most concerned about directly following the release of this report. >> joe, do you think if we capture isis guys building rapport is the way to go? they seem like rapport type guys. >> here's what peggy noonan said. designee raises an interesting point. what do we get out of this report. do things change? if we have a high level isis guy and we need information, how do we treat him? >> i think -- >> willie, what happened the day

after jim foley got his head carved off. did you see what happened to the poll numbers immediately? americans were saying boots on the ground. of course. >> no, no. >> just like that. >> the question is did the cia, does the white house authorize it. these people act differently. do we learn from this report. do we treat people differently because of this? >> you think so. >> a bit. >> the hangover from the wars in iraq and afghanistan are significant and deep in the united states right now and i think 9/11 is a bit of a distant memory. i'm not saying it should be. >> do you think in a dark corner of the world in a dungeon where a cia guy is are interrogating somebody saying that report was pretty damning. >> what will happen now and there were safe guards by 2004, after they learned the mistakes made in the early years, unfortunately what's going to happen now because we don't have a program set up where you can

interrogate, they made the decision we won't interrogate any more we'll just kill them. what happens now? we send them to egypt. or we send them to other countries where there's absolutely no safe guards and torture is much, much worse and behavior is much, much worse and there's not a doctor in there that's observing while all this is going on. we made things worse in many ways at least people will feel good about themselves. >> peggy writes. americans should never again do what is asserted and outlined in the report which enew mr. rates various incidents of what i believe must honestly be called torture. american policy should be to treat prisoners the way we would hope with clear eyes knowing it is a hope our prisoner wos be treated. torture is not like us. it's not part of the american

dna. we think of ourselves as better than that because we've been better than that. it is almost childish to say it yet children sometimes see obvious truths. we can't use torture methods and still at the same time be the hope of the world. someone has to be the good guy. >> i love peggy. >> that's really good. i already had this point of view. but i think this is a really good way of putting it. >> robert gibbs, i have a sense that a lot of people, actually, a lot of republicans actually feel way peggy does. >> well, certainly i think john mccain is an exceedingly eloquent spokesperson. one thing that has to be put into the debate that you all just had which is the effectiveness of this. i think i was struck by the way brennan phrased what we got from the enhanced interrogation techniques. i think we can have the debate and probably will for decades

about what we got from each of these either individual or collective enhanced interrogation instances. i think the one thing we don't need a debate on is essentially what peggy has written and that is this has hurt our standing in the world. this has affected the way other people view us and it has changed our ability to be the moral leader in some of these instances. >> we want to hear from you on this. our icitizen question today asks should the senate report on the post-9/11 cia interrogation techniques have been released to the public. down the icitizen app. stay with us if you can. still ahead on "morning joe," labor secretary tom perez will be here in our 8:00 hour. former "vogue" editor-at-large joins us. donny is missing his trainer. also ahead this hour next week is the final week for the

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♪ time now to take a look at the morning papers. >> there's a big bill sitting right now in front of the senate called the clay hunt suicide bill for veterans. 18 to 22 veterans per day take their own lives. >> can you believe those numbers. >> say that again. >> 18 to 22 veterans per day on average take their own lives. clay hunt was a veteran of both wars, iraq and afghanistan, a marine corporal who took his own life. it passed a voice vote in the house. being held up by tom coburn. he has a hold on it in senate. provides more care and service to veterans and could prevent suicides in our vets and save lives. >> it must pass. >> okay.

"the washington post," pulitzer prize winning journalist who chronicled ebola patients and caregivers in africa died of an apparent heart attack on thursday while on assignment in liberia. he won two pulitzers in 2008 for a series on treatment of veterans at walter reed. my goodness. he was 58 years old. >> he was great. you see the reaction. he did a photo essay about the crack epidemic in the '80s in miami. go online and look at it. it's breathtaking. >> the "orlando sentinel" the ceo of seaworld is stepping down amaid drop in visitors and tumbling stock prices. seaworld has faced an image crisis after the documentary that drew attention to the treatment of orcas. the company plans to layoff employees. it's unclear right now how many

workers will be affected. "usa today" the "colbert report" has announced its final week of guests, the lineup includes actor seth rogan, rapper kendrick lamar, the comedian's final guest will be grimmy, the grim reaper character and who colbert calls his life long report. it airs on december 18th on comedy central. >> its hard to see it. he's so talented. so smart and funny. >> interesting. >> smart makes his funny really funny. many up dick cheney is coming out swinging on the cia report calling them full of crap. chuck todd joins us next. he's joining us ahead of his big interview with the former vice president. we'll be right back. ♪

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attacks. there were no easy answers. and whatever your views are on eits, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things right during this difficult time to keep this country strong and secure. joining us from -- willie, sorry, from washington nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" chuck todd. chuck good to have you on board. you have a big interview this sunday. >> i'm looking forward to it. former vice president dick cheney. it will be interesting. >> also known as the donny deutsch of mclean. donny -- >> no, i don't think so, actually. >> i'll ask him if that's exactly what he feels like. >> chuck, it's interesting, i just say that because donny has been here basically saying hey, do whatever it takes. that is actually what every president and why members of congress deal with in a time of

crisis americans throw the niceties out, leave it to columbia law school professors to talk about legalities, keep us safe. >> it is. i think that it's always one of those and i'm sure you had votes like that where in the moment it's one thing, ten years later you look back, hmmm, boy should we have thought about that better, done that differently. look, that's the fairest sort of defense in all of this when you heard brennan yesterday you got to remember the way things felt in the moment. but, of course, that's the most difficult thing for anybody. >> don't most americans get that shock. i know there are people trying to make political points and there are also people trying to do the right thing. >> no. i think americans are very forgiving on this front. i think the thing that this report is damaging is relationships overseas. >> yeah. that's exactly what you said talking about germany, talking about -- listen.

by the way, it's not the arab world that's going to be freaked by this. it's not going to be pakistan that's frequented out by this. they know much, much worse goes on in their own countries. you're right. it's germany, it's france, our allies in britain. >> trial industrialized democra that followed us because of t the values of what they believe we do. even if we think that we should have done it at the time we do feel badly. >> mika just wrote me a note and i'll tell you how most americans feel. china is criticizes us and that's bad. i immediately think i'm not going to take lectures from a country that killed 60 million

of its own people. >> iran is criticizing us too. germany is my issue. >> it's france. industrialized countries. >> to peggy's point. >> germany after 50 years has a nice human track record. >> come on, donny. when is the statute of limitations on that. >> never. >> that will hurt on the historical front, donny. >> we've been perfect for 300 years. >> chuck i won't ask you to tip your hand on the interview, how do you get at a guy like dick cheney, who we've known now for 13 years how he feels about these issues. we heard him answer these questions. it's hard to chip away what we know about him. what's your approach to an interview like this? >> it is one of the tougher interviews because he's one of these people that's very sure in his answers and he knows a lot of the information probably better than most. i mean i think about the different interviews we were talking about this at a staff

meeting. there's bill clinton, barack obama, dick cheney, these are three guys, you feel like they -- there's no question that would throw them because they are comfortable not answering questions. because they would sit there and say i haven't -- they are comfortable being dismissive of any premise no matter how rational or logical the premise is. i think it sort of -- you can't allow yourself to let them dismiss a premise and let them make you feel as if you're premise is ridiculous when you know in your heart it's not. so i think that's the challenge with people like that. they are very knowledgeable, very well read and very comfortable in their, in what they know. >> it is. also, gibbs, it's fascinating, dick cheney, people that know dick cheney say september 11th changed him. he just made the decision never again. this is not going -- americans are not going to be killed again

on my watch and it was what, i guess, it was ron susskind that wrote the 1% solution. if there's a 1% chance of something happening we'll do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen. it's hard to judge how you or i would react in those circumstances. but that is definitely his mindset. you weren't there. i was there. and no americans have been killed since september 11th you know here at home and that's what we'll be judged by. >> right. i guess, you know, you could ask certain questions like, for instance, you know, obama outlawed torture and we haven't had a 9/11 type incident here. does that -- what does that mean in terms of the efficacy of that% there's some fascinating questions. your previous guest the general counsel of the cia he said we briefed the vice president, we briefed the president's chief

attorney, we briefed the national security adviser and we didn't brief the president. and i guess one of my questions would be, did they not brief the president so the president could say he hadn't been briefed? i do think it's interesting that you had briefed those people at a time, as we talked b-such heightened awareness about the potential for another attack and yet not brief the president on that. that seems like an interesting facet that we should drill down on. >> i think condi actually said or somebody said there's no reason to brief the president. >> i think that just protects. >> they were just trying to protect the president. >> the most fascinating subplot of the torture report was the role that condi played in deciding what the president got briefed on and what he didn't get briefed on but that she was the pivot point, that she was the conduit which course the national security adviser

normally. they get more of the incoming than anybody else. but on some of these sensitive issues it's interesting she decided what he should know and what he shouldn't know. >> chuck todd thank you very much. we'll be watching sunday. >> going to being a great. >> chuck, do you need me with that interview >> no he doesn't. >> i'm sure you'll be with the vice president in mclean, right? >> yeah. >> i'll just kind of stand by. won't say much but just in case things get out of line. >> okay. up next -- >> that's a cold comfort to chuck. good luck. >> be fascinating. child care for under $10 a day nationalized paid leave. secretary of labor tom perez is here with his plan to help. >> i would love help. >> the american worker, we'll be right back.

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♪ >> that's amazing. a labor debt video on the need for paid leave here in the united states. joining us here in the studio u.s. secretary of labor, tom perez. good to have you back. i want to talk about fade leave

issue which you're pushing. let's start with the minimum wage. i'm looking at this article on the front page of the "new york times" and this gentleman has been out of work for four years. still belongs to his union. it's not worth working at the minimum wage job nearby because it doesn't pay enough. it is to me just kind of frustrating that a lot of things are kind of beginning to move in washington except for the heart of the matter. >> you the minimum wage is one of those things every president since fdr except two has raised the minimum wage including president bush, his father, i was working in the senate in the mid-'90s when newt gingrich and bill clinton cut a deal on the minimum wage. and that's because there's a recognition that when you put money in the pocket of somebody who is making $7 an hour, they are going to spend it and guess what happens? then more restaurants have more customers, amazon has more people buying things. guess what they have to high

more folks. >> now to your bigger point and push for paid leave and look at other countries how they compare to us. your thesis is that we're losing talent for all these reasons. what are some of the examples. we look at the uk, australia and canada just as it relates to maternity leave. >> two quick stories. i was in germany a month ago. met with the german chamber of commerce, and one of the people there was an american from ohio who had been working there for eight or nine years, his wife was about to have a second baby. he said there's no way i would move back to the states right now because this paid leave is what enables us to survive as a family and make a choice about how many children we want to have. >> what's your vision of paid leave. what do you think -- what would you like? what do you think is possible? >> well, let's look at some of the stakes. california has put a paid leave system in place. there was a study done that hey

the sky didn't fall, businesses are still growing. you go into canada -- >> what would you like to -- how long and what do you think is possible? >> i think at a minimum, we saw that video and there was 14 weeks in germany and i was with tamara this morning. she's a mom here in new york and she told the story of after her baby was born 11 weeks later she had to go back to work because she couldn't make ends back. first week back she had a seizure and ended back in the hospital and it was so hard. >> mr. secretary let's talk about trend lines we've been watching from the november job report. 331,000 jobs add. unemployment rate is done. this is one of the largest spikes we've seen. are we on the upward trend now? are we over the decline that we've been witnessing and

america is on the come back >> the economy is clearly moving in the right direction. this is ten months taken row. 57 straight months. last month was the third best month of those 57 straight months. we saw -- if the next year has the wage growth that we saw in the last month, then we'll start seeing real wage growth because that's a big part of the unfinished business of this recovery. last month was very. the best thing that puts upward pressure on wages is when you have a tight economy with the job growth we're seeing and that is what we're very promising -- the other day we put our job numbers out in terms of job openings. there's 4.8 million jobs open right now that number is a great opportunity, more people are quitting jobs now entirely. people quit jobs voluntarily only when they have confidence they have another job. >> you launched the $100 million

american grant competition, large single federal apprenticeship ever in the u.s. thank you for being in. >> we have so much we would love to talk to you about. would love to come back. >> secretary tom perez, thank you. >> barack obama take a victory lap. >> still ahead our next guest says that being a winner in life requires a little dreaming. that story ahead. ♪

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a ninth printing is not bad. >> especially when you write this on a layover. >> here with us now, ceo of sap, one of the world's largest business software companies, bill mcdermott. author of "winners dream." life lessons in sales, motivation and leadership. >> bill, thank you so much -- >> thank you for having me. >> your story sounds like donny deutsch other than the fact that donny was born with a million dollar trust fund. >> that's not the case. >> it's an incredible story. you're working these hourly jobs

on long island. born into a long island working class family. working these hourly jobs. then you decide to buy a deli. >> yes. >> just scrapping out of nowhere, trying to make money -- where does that come from? there are people like you and donny and others that want to just -- where does that come from? >> at the time, it was just being practical. i had three part-time jobs and i traded them for one full-time job at the deli. the deal was pay it off in one year or lose it. where it comes from is you want to win. you really want to be something in the world. look a leader. at the time, i learned to focus on customers. my competition didn't want to deliver to senior citizens, to i did. blue collar workers were rich on friday, broke on sunday morning. i gave them credit. the high school kid, they had to walk a extra block and a half.

past the seven 11. why are you waiting outside? well, they think we're going to take stuff. don't worry about it, come down to my store. did a video game for the kids. plucked in quarters all day. >> look how much fun you have at work, right? you got to keep it fun. kid underscored my strategy by say, we want good food, video game, treated with respect, we come here. when we want to steal stuff, we go to seven 11. got to take care of your customers. >> donny, customers, customer, customers. >> everything he says is common sense. you know, one of the things that made music so successful on a smaller scale, some of the things i used, you didn't have a playbook. just kind of like, no, this makes sense. there's no great mystery to it. there's no magic to it. it's understanding human beings and going, oh, yeah. the kids want this. >> work your tail off and give

the customer what the customer wants. >> meanwhile, you also had a keen understanding it could be easily lost. i just want to read an expert. you say my family circumstances told me hard work did not always pay off. i also understood that anything earned or given could be taken away. a house, a job, a brother. the more i knew, the more quickly i could find a solution instead of dwelling on a problem. >> that is so great. >> thank you. >> because what we gain can be so easily lost. >> yes. >> so how do you grow on what you establish? and do so in a successful manner? >> a couple things. one is, you got to want it more. i remember the day i went in for my first dream job at xerox. i was 20 years old. my house was flooded with 4 1/2 foot of water that day. i'm in my $99 suit from the mall. my brother carries me to the street. i say to my dad, i'm coming home with my employee badge in my pocket tonight. my dad said, don't worry, just to the best you can.

i get into manhattan after reading the annual report. guy reinventing xerox on total quality management. i am in my eighth interview so i figure i'm doing okay. we get to the end of the interview. the guy emerson says to me at the time, great interview. the hr department will get in touch in a couple weeks. said, i don't think you completely understand the situation, sir. what's that? >> i haven't broken a promise to my father in 21 years and i can't start now. he tilts his head. if you haven't committed any crimes, you're hired. >> unbelievable. >> what was the difference? i just wanted it more. i was fighting for my life. one other story. i go to puerto rico. they were 64 out of 64. you got to listen to the people. they always have the answers. i asked them, why are you so messed up? why are you last? they basically said three reasons. we need a vision. we want to be inspired. we want our holiday party back. i said, what's more important

out of the three? the holiday party. i said, let's do your dream holiday party. we give them the dream. the best salsa singer in puerto rico. i said, look, you can't party at number 64, you got to be number one. >> wow. what meant to them meant to you. >> exactly. >> that's all they need to know. >> you got to love the people. >> this book -- i'll just end with the story here. this whole interview came together because we ran into on the street one of the most talented women i've ever known. who you just hired. so i know you're a smart guy. and she brought you to us. and this book. and the message of the book applied to women as well. be aggressive and stick to it and dream. >> we've done an unbelievable job hiring some of the most powerful women and they're making such a difference in our company. like megan. we just hired our new cmo, maggie tam jones who is doing an

unbelievable job. let them flourish. give them the keys and let them go. >> bill, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> come back. >> i would love to, joe, thank you. sony executives making racially incensensitive comment about president obama. after the break. you pay your auto insurance premium every month on the dot. you're like the poster child for paying on time. and then one day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal... until your insurance company jacks up your rates. you freak out. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? hey insurance companies, news flash. nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance.

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welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch, harold ford jr. and sam stein are with us. apologizing over racially incensensitive e-mails. the exchange between the co-chair amy pascal and scott rubin was posted online. >> we're going to stop here because we're having a debate, willie. mika thinks this is an invasion of people's privacy. and if we don't -- if everybody's so offended by jennifer lawrence's hacked photos and kate upton's hacked photos and kate upton's boyfriend's hacked photos -- blah -- we shouldn't be showing hacked e-mails. an invasion of privacy. >> i'm with mika.

i think if it's a government official, the president of the united states, talking about torture, national security -- >> national security. >> the public has a right to know. i don't know what we gain between seeing personal e-mails. >> what do you think? >> i'm stunned that adults -- at the same time, i wouldn't want people going through my e-mails over the past ten years. i say so many stupid things on air. imagine what i'd say off air or what people say to me. so it -- maybe it is an invasion of privacy. especially since we're doing the bidding of north korea. i mean, come on. >> i think the -- obviously, it's an invasion of privacy. i don't thing we need to show it. i think the lesson, the thought -- any time you think about it -- >> i tend to agree with you. >> to willie's point, you know, i remember back to when we got these leaked e-mails from the general manager of the atlanta

hawks and they were basically racist e-mails about free agency of lieual deng. i thought they served a legitimate news purpose because we got to see how it viewed the players it was trying to hire. showed a very racist threat in that. i do see the futility of seeing these e-mails. at the same time, i'm not an idiot. if someone were to sifted through my e-mail, i would be hue mill eigmiliate humiliated. so much stuff i wouldn't want out in public. >> all right, well, it sounds like we've come to a vote. let's go to the next story. >> there's a problem. >> what's that? >> these e-mails do have a racial part of them. i guess you could call that valuable mind-set. some of the information th, tha

could be valuable, especially the salaries between women and men. >> i actually could -- look at the cover of "the post" and there's some racist -- was it for instance as the things paula deen did? why do the people have their jobs at this point? where do we draw the line? i'm not saying these e-mails should be exposed but we tend to -- there is a player who plays for the philadelphia eagles who used the worst racial slur you can use who's still playing. yet other people get, you know, completely thrown out of their jobs and careers for life. and what's the -- >> harold? >> i don't know if it's a little racist or -- it's racist. >> that's my point. >> do you think the e-mails are racist? >> it sounded like the context and the banter was what were his favorite movies. making the presumption that he would like movies with heavy

african-american themes. this kid, i think he was intoxicated, some party, whatever. i don't claim to be the arbiter. i think if something is racist, it's racist. these executives should have to answer the question. i don't want to do the bidding of the north koreans. these are two people who supported barack obama. they gave them $45,000 -- >> 75 -- >> whatever the number, so this is a great way to show racism -- >> if you're going to be that big of a supporter. >> a number of -- from ferguson to staten island that would love that kind of racism. write in a $75,000 check and make fun of the movies i like to go see. >> let's talk about the reaction to the cia report. >> all right, moving forward then. because this morning, the cia director john bren nan had an unprecedented news conference in response to a scathing report on interrogations in the wake of the 9/11 attackings. brennan said intelligence from detainees subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques

provided information that was used in the ultimate operation against osama bin laden. he did not, however, say the intel was necessarily a direct result of using the methods. brennan both defended the agency while admitting mistakes were made. >> our reviews indicate the integration program produced useful intelligence that helped the united states thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives. but let me be clear, we have not concluded that it was the use of eits within that program that allowed us to obtain useful information from detainees subjected to them. the cause and effect relationship between the use of eits and useful information subsequently provided by the detainee is, in my view, unknowable. the cia was unprepared to conduct an interrogation program and our officers inadequately

developed and monitored its initial activities. the agency failed to establish quickly the operational guidelines needed to govern the entire effort. in a limited number of cases, agency officers used interrogation techniques that had not been authorized, were abhorrent and rightly should be repudiated by all. >> democratic senator dianne feinstein attempted to fact check brennan in real time on twitter. with #readthereport she rejected brennan claims it is not known if traditional method would have worked. >> that's not what former senator bob kerrey wrote in "usa today." here's a guy who served on the intel committee for years. his friends, many members there. he said, i do not need to know the report to know the democratic staff alone wrote it. the republicans checked out early when they determined that their counterparts started out

with the premise that the cia was guilty and then worked to prove it. do not eliminate the need for interviews conducted by the investigators. isolated e-mails, memos and transcripts can look much different when there is no context or perspective provided by those who sent, received or recorded them. i can't -- this bob kerrey, who's friends with a lot of people on the committee. i'm really -- i am obviously, like a lot of americans, really disturbed by a lot of things contained in the report. but it is a one-sided report. where there is absolutely no context here. >> that's not a dispute. >> there's absolutely no context here. and you just wonder why they weren't interested. they spent $40 million on this report. and yet they don't -- they don't ask a single member that participated in that or all the cia directors that were

directors while this was going on. >> that's not a dispute. people who are were the focus of the report are having news conferences and testifying and are not disputing the facts inside the report. >> i'm a liberal on the show. i have no problem with it, to be honest with you. >> what's that? >> you know, these are terrorists. we're trying to protect ourselves. you got to do what you got to do. i don't know if i'm turning into a right winger in my old age but we're not privy to a lot of what goes on in the world. that old jack nicholson, you need me on that wall, you want me on the wall. >> you can't handle the truth. >> i wonder how many people who lost -- >> right. >> friends and family and kids on 9/11 said, if we had done some of this earlier, maybe we could have saved them, everybody would raise their hand and go yeah. there's a gray area, but maybe doing this would save my children or my friend's children or -- i'd go -- >> -- i don't think many people appreciate the context shortly

after the attack that the mood, the federal reservrvor, the app the country for washington to do something. the questions being asked, how could this have happened. how could we not know that terrorists were coming to hijack planes? they hijacked four planes. it's easy to sit back now and say they shouldn't have done it. i listen to what brennan said. he said, we were trying our hard effo hardest. i happen to believe that. i remember running into a reporter and he said, it's amazing, there's so many people who didn't support bush who are now supporting him. even among african-american voter, 85% approve of what he's doing. they want the country -- want all of us to be safe and protected. so it's great to look back now and figure out how we don't do things that don't produce the right information and violate our principles. but put some of this in context. you remember as well as i do. >> i do. that's what's so offensive, willie, to me, is these same

people that were saying do everything that's required, do whatever's required. and now going back and acting self-righteous. i think a bipartisan report would have been great. because what we learned is, okay, we weren't ready for this. there were some excesses that went on for the first year. we as a country screwed up. we messed up. but the thing is, we don't have any context to that. this report, mika, is an absolute disgrace. what's contained in it is a disgrace. and the response is a disgrace. as bob kerrey said, he said the worst consequence of this partisan report -- here we have a democrat talking about -- >> who was also on the 9/11 commission -- >> was on the 9/11 commission and who worked with dianne feinstein said this partisan report, it contains no recommendations. this was a witch-hunt.

and how do you find a witch-hunt? by a "rolling stone" story that goes after a fraternity without actually asking any questions or asking any of the accused. and here we have on the top level, one of the most important issues that defines who we are as a country. a partisan report where they don't interview the accused, in this case, who aren't frat boys but are the men and women they put on that wall and said "protect us." please stop this from ever happening again. and then this is how dianne feinstein treats them. 12 years later. i don't know if anybody paid any attention. we haven't been attacked since september 11th. i'm not saying it's torture. we're against torture. the men and women of the cia did what they were asked. and this is how dianne feinstein repays them. >> well, it just wasn't -- it just wasn't smart sta tre

treejically strategically or politically. even if it was from both sides, there would still be examples of torture you could point to and say, we can never do this again. or point back and say, we talked to everybody involved. you still would have the evidence. but now we have the evidence without the support of the other side so it allows people like us and others to torpedo it. >> they don't want the truth here. they want a partisan conclusion that not only was this abhorrent -- >> they're not fighting the content. >> who's not fighting the content? judge the other side. >> how do you know that? how do you know they're not fighting the content. by the way -- >> come on, they're not saying these things didn't happen. they're saying please look at the context. >> even if these guys -- >> thinking about it, even if

these things did happen, and it did, i remember watching a video, some beast taking a knife to some poor defenseless aid worker's throat -- >> but these guys aren't defenseless -- >> you had the best point, there are no -- there were no recommendation, made from this. the other question i have is the timing of doing this. it just doesn't seem -- if you're going to make recommendations, that's one thing. if you just draw up a picture and put assets around the globe in greater danger perhaps, i don't understand what the greater purpose was. there's no doubt, you're finding widespread agreement. including tim scott from south carolina, lindsey graham, john mccain. speaking against torture. which we should. what are the steps we should be taking? let's answer the quote. what have we done by releasing the -- >> exactly. when you have john kerry saying this was reckless, it makes it

even more partisan. dianne feinstein did this in a way, you know, before she got out of power, in a way that after she's told by the democratic secretary of state that this will put american's lives in danger, frankly, she didn't give a damn. and sam stein, i don't understand why, when we know a lot of the stuff that happened here and, as willie said, if there were a fair bipartisan support, we all around this table would probably agree. we shouldn't waterboard. we shouldn't do the other heinous things that were done. let's do better moving forward. what are the recommendations. she didn't want that. this was a witch opportunity. >> there's a lot to unpack here. i'm not surprising, i tend to disagree with the entire panel. i think that this -- the report serves a very important service for our country which is that, you know, we are party to international treaties banning torture. we have questions of our own

morality and laws in our own country. it's important to know whether we abided by those during our darkest hours. there would never be a good time to release a report like this. could she interview cia officers who were under investigation at the time for potential -- >> i think there are restriction, yeah. >> i don't know. >> could she investigate -- could she investigate cia directors who actually were in charge of running the program and actually kept waiting for her to investigate them? >> i don't agree with that. >> how is this different, sam, than the "rolling stone" article where you go in -- >> hold on -- >> no, sam, you know they went in with conclusions, they were doing an investigation to actually fit into their conclusions. just like the "rolling stone" author. >> listen -- >> is that true or false? >> i want to say this -- because i agree the debate over how they put the report together matters. i think they should have interviewed these people. i don't want that to distriact from the substance. we use these interrogation

techniques which constitute torture. we didn't just use them necessarily on the big gets in terms of the terrorists out there. if we use the report, we use them on a lot of people. we profile this one case where we brought in a guy from tora bora and presoumed he wasn't a high-value detainee. we did sleep deprivation. then concluded he had been set up, said he should be released back to his home with money. instead of releasing him back home, they actually kept him locked up for four years. this is the stuff that's in this report. and there's a value to knowing this because -- >> sam -- >> in context, i could give you ten other examples. i could give you 20 examples. i could give you 30 examples of people that they released that went back on the battlefield and killed americans. >> and that's the point though, we have to figure out whether we have a good -- >> but, sam, here's the context

though, sam. you hear that horror story. you don't hear the other ten or 20 or 30 stories where -- i mean, they have to make judgments in real-time. if we went back to world war ii and we dissected everything that american generals did, i promise you, if you give me $40 million, i could pick any general and i could turn them into a war criminal. give me the intel in real time. i could turn dwight eisenhower. i could turn general marshall. i could turn any of them into war criminals. the decisions we made to drop atomic bombs. >> war is ugly. >> we made mistakes. you know what?

every country makes mistakes. that's what's so depressing about this report. it doesn't allow us to learn because it's so partisan. we talked about this for some time. i am i think more along -- i remember what it was like september 12th, 2001. i remember what these men and women were told. even coming in from that point of view, we've got to do what we need to do to keep america safe. there are some excesses here that are disturbing. we should learn from them. dianne feinstein has taken that opportunity away from us. the senate intel committee has taken that opportunity away from us. because they produce such a biting partisan report. which also doesn't bring up the fact that dianne feinstein was briefed on this and she didn't

care at the time. at the time, she blew right -- >> she said she wasn't briefed in full. that's the whole thing. because they were kept in the dark by the cia. that's part of the report. >> still ahead on "morning joe," airlines are not giving people extra space. they just hope you think they are. really? we'll explain how they're trying to do that. plus, andre leon tally is here with some of his take on the other top story, of the day. also, taylor swift is grabbing headlines and topping the music charts, but where does she rank among the year's top entertainers? good morning everybody. we are about to make more deliveries to more places than anybody on earth. we have the speed. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion successful deliveries last year. 15 billion!

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time now to take a look atp. "the new york times." approving sanctions on officials responsible for human rights violations against protesters who took part in anti-government demonstrations this year it the bill was passed by both the house and senate this week. the sanctions include refusing visas and freezing assets held in the u.s. "the boston globe." after a seven-hour process, a time capsule was removed from the statehouse. historians say it was placed there by the likes of paul revere and sam adams. it's believed to contain old coins, newspapers and a metal place. the hope is for it to be x-rayed and opened some time next week. >> the "new york times," never afraid to take controversy head on. pope francis has weighed in on the do animals go to heaven debate. the holy father said the pearly

gates are open to all god's creatures while he was comforting a boy who recently lost his pet dog. that question has been debated for some time with many of his predecessors saying animals do not have souls and cannot go to heaven. >> seems unduly harsh. >> of course they go to heaven. >> "los angeles times." the storm that brought power outages to california is now moving south. a blessing and curse for the drought stricken region that's in desperate need of rain. the pictures are incredible. nearly ten inches of rain reported in one area. at one point, the hurricane force winds knocked out power to more than 400,000 customers. two deaths have been reported. bill karins is tracking this one. >> it looks like we're getting some breaking news from ventura county. about 30 miles northwest of los angeles. this picture was just tweeted out by the national weather service there. a mud and debris flow.

you can see all the rocks and the bolders surrounding the homes at the time. 40 to 50 people were evacuated from this area. so hopefully they haven't been doing too much in the way of rescues. if you notice the house in the back here, that's halfway up the door of that mud. there's other reports online that some of the houses have mud up to the rooftops. so again a dangerous situation in that area. the heavy rain is now shifted, out of san francisco and right over the top of downtown l.a. and the concern of course is any of those areas that had those fires, you can get mud and debris flows. that fire was a year ago. now from the heavy rain just last night, that's what happened. >> up any, the great andre leon tally joins us next. plus, what not to say to a star when you're on the red carpet. oh, no, this is lewis. >> you're a lucky guy, beautiful wife. always have to say that. >> did you hear what he said to him? he's like, he was not happy. >> why do we let him out?

>> lewis. hit on mark wahlberg's wife? >> what? to mark wahlberg? >> mark wahlberg's response. we'll be right back.

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you're a lucky guy. you have a beautiful wife. i always have to say that. >> checking out my wife? >> i just had to say. >> it's the way you said that, man. >> no -- >> i appreciate that. >> that is not the way you compliment -- >> did security come and get you? >> to my defense, he was telling everybody his wife was beautiful so i just thought -- >> joining us now, fashion icon andre leon tally. of course lewis is here. joe is executive producing in the control room. >> congratulations. >> he may get in your ear and tell you what to do. >> good morning, joe. >> he's in charge. >> are you going to go to sleep? >> i can wear sweats. >> actually, that never stopped you before. donny is missing his trainer to be here. can you imagine?

please. >> i heard you were coming. you and i dress very similarly. if i wanted to mirror you, where would i -- i couldn't go to -- >> merakesh. >> i couldn't just go down to target? >> i got so nervous i changed for you. >> oh, you look wonderful, always. >> so what the heck, lewis? >> i was on the red corpora car the remake of "the gambler." the remake. you know that film, right? i got a couple questions to mark wahlberg. you should take a look. >> all right, let's see. >> how is this character you're portraying different than the character in 1974? how is this film different is this. >> obviously being set in present day, set in l.a. i think just the essence of it is the reason for gambling. jimmy's character was obsessed with the thrill. it was all about the thrill. if he didn't feel like he was in the moment, he didn't feel alive. my character basically doesn't want to be alive so he just

happens to stumble upon gambling to strip himself of all this material wealth he has and he wants to find the deeper meaning in life. if he doesn't find it, he doesn't want to live. >> i'm putting everything on black. >> red's been coming up ought night. >> you want me to pay you now? >> maybe i enjoy watching the show. >> 19 red. >> i did plenty once we started because you want to live in the moment and be the guy all the time. so we're betting on -- my favorite thing to bet on was repeats of ufc fights that i already knew the outcome. because i like to win. >> that's a safe bet. >> i don't like to lose. >> how do you do it all? you're producing, your acting, you're directing. how does it -- ari? >> no, he would be here. >> ari, where are you? >> okay, you're not half bad when you're not insulting someone's wife. that was ari emmanuel. >> she is beautiful.

a super model. >> he chooses such good roles. >> he does. >> speaking of good roles, you are now taking on apple. >> yeah. >> with will.i.am. tell us what this is. >> first of all, he's so incredible. has a great vision. bright, intelligent. it was probably the longest meeting anna winter ever had with someone that i know of. she was with him for 28 minutes. we had the whole big important vogue editor sitting in the room and they all fell in love with him. >> what is the thing? >> i don't have it, i'm sorry. it is a bracelet cuff that is totally technological. you can talk into it and do e-mails. >> it's not going to work. is it going to work? >> it works. it works. he spent a lot of his own money creating the technology. he has 33 engineers who have created this extraordinary thing and it's fashion conscious. you can buy them with diamonds. or you can buy them with no diamonds. the one with no diamonds is

afardable. it's like $400. >> if it worked. we shall see. you are a fashion icon. we have actually a few other fashion pieces of news. lewis, you have one on the duchess. >> the fashion police are going after the duchess of cambridge. >> why? >> she's wearing outfits more than once. i think that's totally acceptable. >> i'm horrified. >> it's a trend. i think it's great. that she wore the say dress three times in one year. >> is that new for a dutchess? >> well, it's new for a duchess. people think the red carpet, you can show up in the same dress. i think it's bogus. >> women will go to a party and will go, i wore that six months -- so what? >> well, men wear the same suits but you don't. i've seen you wear a plaid suit three times in a year on this set. i never understood why women couldn't wear. some of the most stylish women do repeat their dresses. if you really see a great woman who has a great style, she's going to put that dress on more than once. >> if something looks good and feels good. >> you wear it.

>> again and again and again. i get tweeted for repeating. >> would you -- i'm not being -- would you not wear these again on the -- >> i have worn these like eight times this year, right. you've been watching. >> you've been great. >> you never had a problem. you let me know. >> i would totally tell you. is there anything else i'm doing wrong? >> i love when you wear the high heels that are nude. they're louis vuittons that you think are your feet. >> all right, we had a misunderstanding. i brought you a gift to make things better. >> i think he sexually harassed me. in fact, i think i feel victimized right now. so maybe you ought to go buy some more. all right. >> now i feel objected. >> get to work. go to the store right from here. you missed your trainer. why don't you go spend some more money. a 4-year-old fashion prodigy has been brought on to the design scene. an entire line of kid's clothing

for the store j crew. the pint-sized designer uses paper, scotch tape, jewels and other supplies to create her clothing which j crew took and turned into actual items to sell. mayhem caught the attention -- i love her name. the attention of the fashion chain through her online blog which is run by her parents. what do you think of her designs? >> start 'em young, start 'em young. is this her parents? >> i think so. look, brooke shields had her mother. her mother was great. remember, brooke shields was 12. stage moms are great. you know, gypsy rose lee. it's incredible. i think start 'em young. she's going to have a great experience. j crew is one of the great lines. >> literally, the smartest merchandiser in the year. >> and she's a very, very cool person. >> do you know -- don is sort of hanging on my chair. >> i think you're going to get some new shoes. >> okay, good. andre, stay with us. >> of course, of course. >> what's with the blanket? >> i'm cold. the studio is cold.

>> nobody's acknowledged. the man is waving a blanket. >> you're linus. let me see that thing. it's a ralph lauren blanket. >> of course. and piped in leather. >> i like it. i get it now. >> it's cold in the studio. >> it's like cashmere. >> how's it looking from the control room? >> it's cold in the studio. isn't it fabulous? it's cold. it's beautiful. >> oh, no, joe's coming in, he's mad. >> okay, stay mad. from taylor swift. aretha franklin, angelina jolie. a look at the most powerful women in entertainment next on "morning joe."

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over ♪ ♪ if the high was worth the pain ♪ ♪ got a long list of ex-lovers ♪ they'll tell you i'm insane ♪ because you know i love the players ♪ ♪ and you love the game bill board magazine has named taylor swift their woman of the year. joining us now, chief creative officer and co-president of the entertainment group at guggenheim media, janice min. she oversees content for the awesome hollywood reporter and bill board. we were talking about how great hollywood reporter. >> i'm obviously in the business, follow the magazine. what she's done -- but particularly the hollywood reporter, it's stunning, kudos to you. >> thank you. >> janice, taylor swift, go. >> okay, what can you say, it's her year. she's amazing. she's 24. >> she's a savant. >> she's turning 25 next year. one of the things i love about her, when i was reading the story, when you listen to her speak and when we really dissect her quotes, she is so smart.

remember, this is a woman who didn't go to college but she writes her own songs. she steered her career in a way that other young woman ever had. >> i remember watching a "60 minutes" piece on her and never looking at her the same way because you got the sense of what a savant she is and how in control she is of her empire. >> i love that she's -- all the proceeds from this album go to the public schools of new york city. what other person has ever done that? she apparently gives the best after-parties too. all the people play billiards. >> i know what you're doing. he's trying to go to the party. you're andre leon tally. >> she would invite me but i have to ask her. >> taylor, will you please invite him? >> we have aretha franklin. arianna grande. idina menzel. >> this was the year of the woman. in terms of musical success. i have some stats.

this was -- the year 2014. women held the number one position in the hot 100 for two thirds of the year. in 2013, it was only for one third of the year. this was a year that, let's see, the historic seven weeks where women held the top five spots on the hot 100 for the first time in history. so no man got in. >> i like how different they all seem and look and are. >> we, it's pretty cool, because they're -- they collaborate a lot. they get along. this is sort of this whole new era. we used to have the age of the battling divas. >> we're past that. we're getting there. >> they like each other. they tweet about each other. ins instagram each other. >> hr's coming out with the top -- >> yeah. >> when do we get to the point where we stop -- you know, there's a flip side to this. when we designate women. yes, on the one has been, we celebrate. but it is a subset. when does that stop? >> when there's actual parody. we say, oh, my god, they all

control tv, you can't feel sorry for any of these women. but you look at the actual landscape of hollywood. when you look at those sony leaks from the hack and you saw who makes more than $1 million at the studio, one person, there are no women, and most revealing about salary was two people have the same job, a man and a woman, and the man makes about 70% more. >> 70%. that's been really valuable -- now, executive producing in the control room, joe scarborough, he has a question. joe. >> i'm just wondering, has anybody dominated the music landscape like taylor swift? i have a sense in a while -- i have a sense she's one or two big albums away from being sort of -- almost michael jackson iconic status. we're going into new territory here. >> this is new territory. she -- i mean, she's sort of like the beatles of today. >> oh, my god. that's saying -- >> guys, we got -- before we anoint her royalty, there's got to be a bit a test of time.

she is bucking every trend. >> she's been around for a long time though. >> when you talk about michael jackson, you talk about the beatles, it goes over decades. both in terms of the producti productivity and the staying power. so she's on that path. let's not, you know, knight her yet. >> hey, donny, that's what i said, one or two albums more. one or two more 1989s. she's in michael jackson's territory. >> how does it feel to have the power and control? you're like at nasa now. >> you know what the best part of it, donny, i'm wearing boxers right now and i'm very relaxed. andre and i have the same fashion tips. and i've got yeah, you know, hearts on them. >> andre has an issue with that. >> boxer. >> i'm wearing sweats. i wouldn't wear boxers. >> she can't recover from that. >> i'm going to -- can we talk about furries? okay, no. >> furries! no. >> i don't want to. i don't know. i digress there.

>> i never understood that. >> oh, please. >> let's not go into that. >> let's have this discussion. andre, why do people do that? >> what do they do at the furry convention? i don't understand. i'm still in trouble. >> do you know the furries? >> i don't know any furries. i want it to be clear. i do not associate with furries. ferries perhaps but not furries. >> how about fairy furries? >> oh, my god. everyone stay with us. i'm going to break. janice, thank you so much. >> janice, i apologize. >> andre and janice -- >> i apologize on behalf of our executive producer. >> taking on the notable nominations from the golden globes when we come back. she inspires you.

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the race for the oscars are starting to take shape after the golden globe nomination, were announced. "birdman" will compete against "the grand budapest hotel."

on the drama side, "boy hood," "fox catcher," "the imitation game,," "selma," and "the theory of everything." i'm noting a big gaping hole for angelina jolie. on top of being jabbed at by sony executives in those e-mails. being called a brat or something. >> it's a tough week for angelina jolie. the story of the globes this week, snub, snub, snub. the globes -- hollywood foreign press association which decides these award, they're known to panning to celebrities. they're the people who once -- sharon stone once gave them all watches and she got a nomination to casino. the watches had to be given back. >> yeah, oops. >> this year, they have new leadership. the last few years they've really become synonymous with picking quality movies. >> what's amazing -- you said quality movies. there's not one big hit.

>> no one's seen them. >> there's usually an -- >> last year was "gravity." >> not one commercial movie. >> a lot of these movies haven't opened yet. >> bizarre. >> so "boyhood" is probably the biggest hit. >> that's going to be interesting. >> it's a 2 hour and 46 minute movie. >> do you think it will be flee reflective of the oscars? >> there are no front-runners here. that makes it really tough for the oscar season. no one is sticking their neck out for any one movie. the thing that will happen, these small movies are going to do well. it was a very, very bad year box officewise in hollywood. it's just sort of reflective of the times. there's just not a hit. michael bay's transformers is not getting -- >> any big surprises like maybe that shouldn't have been nominated? >> nothing that probably shouldn't have been nominated. it's more of the snubs. they even snubbed amy poehler for "parks and recreation."

who's host of the event. >> awkward. >> "sons of anarchy," brilliant, genius, to not be included. >> it's not a crowd pleaser. it never became the critical darling. critics love it but not the way they love -- jon hamm by the way got snubbed. >> always snubbed. >> can't win an award to save his life. >> and julianne moore. >> huge snub. and clint eastwood for "american sniper." >> apparently, it's brilliant. >> it's brilliant, completely got snubbed. >> okay, julianne moore. >> people love julianne moore. she's the person who always gets the nomination. we were having a funny discussion in the office. anyone with red hair never wins an oscar but gets a ton of nominations. amy adams, jessica chastain and julianne moore. >> she's got two nominations. she's got to one win of them for best actress. >> if nothing else, the field for actresses is completely weak. in fact, the actress field was

so weak this year that, you know, we wrote a column about the fact that there might not even be enough actresses to get nominations. >> it's very weak because there are only six african-american nominations in all the categories. >> that might be a -- >> and most of them are women, right? viola davis. >> one more question. >> make it count, lewis. >> don't ask one of your stupid questions. >> don't do a mark wahlberg -- >> insight, insight. >> this is a lot of pressure. what was your favorite film of the year? >> nice -- >> excuse producer, can we get the hook? >> just go. >> -- name my favorite film of the year. i would tell you what i'd like to see yet, which is "boyhood." >> great, you just got her in trouble. >> janice, thank you. andre, will you come back? >> absolutely. >> i like the blanky. bring another one. donny, our thanks to your trainer. you want to go do some push-ups or something to make up for lost

time? >> i'm not going to be object y objectifiobjectif objectified as a boy toy. >> show up to the women in central park that you -- >> i know we're hitting on janice, i'm sorry. >> oh, my god. >> ticket to the gun show. we just got one. >> look, look. >> i'm not even looking. i don't want to know. >> all right. >> in moccisins. >> all right that does it for us here on "morning joe." we have lowered ourselves as much as humanly possible. andre, i'm sorry. janice, i'm sorry. lewis, you deserve it. "the rundown" -- >> almost 50 here -- >> "the rundown" is up next.

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football has a season. baseball has a season. this is our season. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. if you went to bed early, you missed after hours drama in the house. it looked like the cromnibus bill might be bust. ultimately, it passed. now, just 12 hours later, it's the senate's turn to try to get this bill done. it almost didn't get through the house. the bill got 219 votes. just one more than the 218 it needed to pass. it split the parties as well despite a big