that shaped his moral rhetoric, i think, is really important to hold on to and keep pushing on. >> thank you all for your time tonight. that's "the ed show." i'm michael eric dyson in for ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening dr. dyson and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, a warning shot from the left. senator elizabeth warren and progressives in congress have put republicans on notice. they're not just going to roll over for the new gop majority. this week senator elizabeth warren took a dramatic stand, pushing democrats to fight against a budget deal that included a big give-away to big banks. >> here's the bottom line. a vote for this bill is a vote for future taxpayer bailouts of wall street. who do you work for? wall street?

or the american people? this fight isn't about conservatives or liberals. it's not about democrats or republicans. it's about money. if big companies can deploy their armies of lobbyists to get congress to vote for special deals that benefit themselves, we will simply confirm the view of the american people, that the system is rigged. it is time for all of us to stand up and fight. >> lots of democrats did stand up and fight. the bill passed the house late last night, but republicans were warned. they're not going to be able to jam their agenda down the throats of the american people. but even though this bill contains some gop proposals that were hard to swallow, there were also a lot in it that democrats needed to pass. funding for early childhood education programs.

funding for climate action. and it continues the work on the consumer financial protection bureau. far from perfect, but some good measures. that's a point president obama also made today. >> there are a bunch of provisions in this bill that i really do not like. on the other hand, there are provisions in this bill, and the basic funding within this bill, that allows us to make sure that we continue on the progress in providing health insurance to all americans, to make sure that we continue with our efforts to combat climate change, that we're able to expand early childhood education. i think what the american people are looking for is some practical governance and the willingness to compromise and that's what this bill reflects. >> it was a compromise. and some predicted a much harsher budget if the deal

didn't pass now. after all, republicans control a lot of seats now, but they're going to control way more in january. that's when the big fights be n begin. senator warren will be at the center of them and republicans are still dismissing her. one time gop lawmaker said, there are many things i worry about in life. elizabeth warren is not one of them. hmm. maybe he should be. >> who does congress work for? does it work for the millionaires, the billionaires? the giant companies with their armies of lobbyists and lawyers? or does it work for all the people? >> it should work for the people. and senator warren won't let them forget it. joining me now are joan walsh and ej dionne, that you both for being here.

ej, is elizabeth warren going to be mitch mcconnell's worst nightmare? >> i think she'll be his worst nightmare and a lot of other people's worst nightmare. when i hear the congressman say, i'm not worried about elizabeth warren, that probably means you're worried about elizabeth warren. but i also think she's going to occasionally interrupt president obama's dreams when she thinks he's making a deal with john boehner or mitch mcconnell that she doesn't think it a good deal. i think what happened in this fight, there were a lot of democrats who said, we've given a lot on funding. we got some things here, we lost some things here. they understood that president obama wanted to lock in certain funding. when you had these two provisions here, one, the beginning of the unraveling of the financial reform, and this campaign finance provision that's going to allow wealthy couples to give up to $3 million to the parties over an election

cycle, a lot of people said that these two things are really worth bringing this bill down for. chris van hollen said it's the only bill with the quid and the quo in it at the same time. so i think elizabeth warren will call them like she sees them and occasionally will make democrats uncomfortable. >> joan, will her presence in challenging some of what we're seeing as an opening shot in her challenging this bill, will she be a galvanizing figure for progressives around the country and impact 2016? >> oh, i think she definitely will. she's already a hugely galvanizing figure, reverend al. this protest, i don't think would have taken off without her. it got awfully close, and i was glad to see speaker pelosi join it. i understand the arguments for passing the bill. there was something terrifying about perhaps triggering another government shutdown. on the other hand, i was in the camp who said, i would love to spend a couple days making elizabeth warren's case, saying,

who does congress work for? wall street or the american people? and saying the republicans are the ones who will not vote for this bill unless this awful -- these two awful provisions are in it. that would have been fun for me. i understand democrat who is don't agree with me. but i think she'll have a huge impact going forward. and senator sherrod brown is now the ranking member of the banking committee. we're in the minority but he can still raise a ruck us. so i think the progressive wing of this party is still rising and it's going to be very interesting. >> ej, part of the appeal with elizabeth warren, she really breaks things down. to be pd understandable. you wrote earlier this year, quote, warren has been challenging conservative presumptions embedded so deeply in our discourse that we barely notice them. where others equivocate she fights back with common sense. should she be another secretary of explaining stuff?

i mean, she gets it where people on the ground understands it and relates to it. >> i think she is another secretary of explaining stuff. i have compared her as a compliment to ronald reagan. because he was very good at explaining where conservatives were coming from. he uses plain clear language. she uses plain clear language. she uses excellent examples. she tells stories. and at the end of an elizabeth warren talk, you really understand why there are problems here, what the conflict is about, and you end up, a lot of people end up wanting to take her side. >> joan, it's not just her style and her delivery. but what i'm getting at is that it's still and delivery on some progressive ideas that galvanized a lot of people that will have real political impact both in the democratic party and in the public discourse in american politics. i think we've not seen of late

that kind of progressive figure pushing the conversation. >> absolutely, reverend al. you i think it's style and content. it's delivery, but it's also message. she tells an important story about the decline of the american dream. she uses her own family story, and she makes it play. those of us of a certain generation grew up and had and really were taken care of in terms of getting an education. government action created the middle class. she explains that well. and progressives are looking for not just style but also policy in terms of, how do we rebuild the middle class? how do we build ladders of opportunity into the middle class for people. those things have fallen apart and elizabeth warren shows us how to rebuild them again. part of it is taking on wall street and rebuilding the financial sector that has become all too common in the democratic party as well. >> ej, there's a real divide in

the gop with conservatives angry at the spending bill, that it doesn't attack the president's executive action on immigration. they want to fight that again next year. >> no, and i think one of the reasons why i think a lot of people wish the democrats could have pushed a harder deal, is because boehner was in big trouble on this bill. he lost 67 of his own members. so -- >> because they wanted to deal with executive action. >> right. >> when you listen at the fact -- listen to the response some of them had last night. >> now, obamacare is funded. now obama's executive amnesty is funded. we insisted on a vote that would allow us to cut off all funding to implement or enforce his executive amnesty. >> let us have a vote on defunding obama's amnesty. >> they wanted to have amnesty. they were completely fine with

amnesty. >> so they're angry, but in the meantime, joan, the president's executive action is moving forward. what does that mean for next year? >> well, i think they'll come back to it next year, but i think, one thing you saw, i think speaker bane ser frankly tired of appeasing that group of republicans. i think it was a great way to say goodbye to michele bachmann and send her away disappointed. but i don't think this battle is over. and so, it will be very interesting to see how things line up in january, when you have more republicans and arguably more conservative republicans, although i don't know that there's anyone who will replace michele bachmann. there are a few contenders. >> ej, one democratic congressman said to today, quote, the next 25 months are about president obama's legacy. how will democrats defend that legacy is the question. >> i think on immigration, the

republicans don't really mean what they're saying. if this leadership really believed that what he was doing was so outrageous, they'd go with michele bachmann. they don't want to go there. they're going to try to avoid that. i think over the coming months, democrats have to talk about what was done to restore this economy. we were on our backs when obama took office. and we're starting to grow in a serious way, but they also have to build on what was done to really start restoring wages. i think the way to preserve his legacy is to make sure we move forward. and at the very least, if you can't get much done, to show how efforts to make things better are getting mocked by the other side. >> ej and joan, thank you for your time. >> thank you. coming up, developing news in the police shooting death of 12-year-old tamir rice. the autopsy is out. so what does it reveal about the case?

also, new details about the federal prosecution into the bridgegate scandal. could a fraud law be used to target former christie aides? plus, new fall-out from the hollywood hacking scandal and those nasty e-mails about president obama. and the pope's big comments about whether dogs go to heaven. what do you think? it's part of "conversation nation."

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album. and in it, she opens up about love, parenthood, and what she believes. >> i always consider myself a feminist. although i was always afraid of that word because people put so much on it. when honestly, it's very simple. it's just a person that believes in equality for men and women. >> it got a lot of attention. it got the attention of singer katy perry. she tweeted. it was one of the most beautiful, vulnerable, real things i have ever seen. fred posted on our facebook, very proud of her accomplishments through the years. i am too, fred. keep the conversation going on our facebook page or tweet us, @politicsnation. i have the worst cold with this runny nose. i better take something. dayquill cold and flu doesn't treat your runny nose. seriously?

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breaking news tonight, we've just got the autopsy results from the shooting death of tamir rice. the 12-year-old shot and killed by cleveland police last month while carrying a toy pellet gun. the 911 caller warned police that the gun was probably not real. >> it's probably fake. but you know what? it's scaring the [ bleep ] out of me. he's probably a juvenile, you know. i don't know if it's real or not. >> but despite the warnings, tamir was shot less than two seconds after police arrived.

the autopsy report shows tamir died from a single gunshot wound of the torso with injuries of a major vessel, intestines and pelvis. the manner of death, ruled a homicide, the same manner of death on eric garner's autopsy report after he was killed from a chokehold from a police officer in july. the same on michael brown's autopsy after he was shot dead by darren wilson. homicide for john crawford, shot and killed by police in an ohio walmart for carrying around a toy gun. homicide for akai gurley, shot and killed by police in the stairwell of his own building. five high profile cases of young black men, killed by police officers across this country in the past five months, and three of the officers in those cases have walked free, without

charges brought against them. something must be done to stop this national crisis. joining me now, mark claxton, former new york city police officer and director of black law enforcement alliance. thank you for being here tonight, mark. >> thank you, rev. >> mark, you know, i'm in washington. tomorrow i join five of these high profile families to have a rally and march. something must be done around policing and the congress must act. it's gonna be big. have all these tragedies brought us to a national tipping point with policing? >> we're truly hoping so. i think that you can't discount the level of activism that has occurred, most recently. but also, we just can't discount that which has been done historically. i mean, you've been very active and involved in that, in

spearheading a lot of movement towards reform. but complete and total justice reform, not just police reform. so i think all of the energy now, really being brought to a head and people energized throughout the nation, a diverse group, will have some impact. it's up to us and those involved in the activism and those involved in the demonstration, and those involved in the demands to really follow through with that. >> as will the rally tomorrow have some impact and will be very diverse and of all the civil rights groups. but many of our progressive groups and people of all ethnic groups. very important, this is an american problem. and we've already seen some concrete action. this week, congress passed the death in custody reporting act. it requires law enforcement agencies to report data on individuals who died during police stops or custody. so we'll know the full extent of the problem. and today congressman cleaver

introduced a bill that would require police officers to wear body cameras. it would apply to all law enforcement agencies receiving federal grants from the justice department. so, marq, don't we need action from congress to produce real, lasting change? >> oh, absolutely. everybody in the pool on this one. it's a situation where, yes, you're going to need technology. yes, you will need some regulation improvement. but until we begin to deal affirmatively with the legislation, it won't have the national impact that's necessary for real reform. and the system needs reform. the system is on some level, broken, if you will. some people may argue that point, but there's a desperate need for congress, for legislators to really be engaged in this and to listen to the wishes and the will and use common sense and apply it. we have to push law enforcement back to a point where humanity matters, where they recognize the humanity in others as they

do themselves. >> and let me be clear that we are not anti-police. you and i. you were a policeman for many years. you and i, the thousands that will march with us in washington, we are not anti-police. most police are good, risk their lives. but we are anti-having a situation where peopler police cannot even be questioned. we need to break that system and stand with those families. when you look in new york since 1999, there have been 179 fatalities involving police. only three of those officers have even been charged. only one convicted. in dallas, 81 police shootings of civilians between 2008 and 2012. only one indictment in those shootings. that's why whites, blacks and others are marching in washington tomorrow because something must be done. that data speaks to a broken

system that is not good for america. mark claxton, thank you for your time tonight. have a good weekend. >> thank you, rev. you too. straight ahead, more fall-out from the leaked hollywood e-mails about president obama. and i'm giving out my weekly report card. will we see a j or a z grade tonight? that's next. i make a lot of purchases for my business. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.

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it's time now for reverend al's weekly report card. let's get right to it. this week the torture report dominated headlines, and so did dick cheney. >> i think it's a terrible piece of work, basically it seems to me it's deeply flawed. >> this report says it's not successful. >> the report is full of crap. >> excuse me, sir.

this is a family show. but cheney gets a v for vader, as in darth. but before i get to all the e-mails coming, it's not me making the comparison. he loves it. >> hi, mr. vice president, it's jay leno. >> jay, i'll be right out. i'm brushing my teeth. >> is this the suit you'll be wearing tonight? >> no, i thought i'd wear this, jay. [ laughter ] >> that's just disturbing on so many levels. also on our report card, the royal couple. will and kate took the big apple by storm this week. but we won't forget the royal courtside meeting. british royalty and brooklyn royalty, jay-z and beyonce hanging out with will and kate at the nets game. will and kate get a bk tonight,

that's right, they're officially brooklyn approved. and that's saying something, coming from a brooklyn guy like me. now to harvard, the professor who went to war over $4 of chinese food. he was the talk of water coolers for the nasty e-mails he sent to a restaurant manager because he was overcharged. he's now apologized. but turns out he's done this before. he had a similar e-mail advantage with a sushi restaurant over a dispute with his groupon. i just have one thing to tell the professor. >> you know something? no soup for you! >> no soup, and no sushi. tonight the professor gets an old-school f. and finally, republican senator tom coburn, he gave a

powerful farewell address to the senate this week. >> to those of you through the years who i have offended, i truly apologize. >> we see ourselves today with a president that we need to be supporting and praying for. thank you to each of you for the privilege of having been able to work for a better country for us all. i yield the floor. [ applause ] >> senator coburn's colleagues gave him a standing ovation. tonight he gets a c, but it's not what you think. it's c for classy.

with all the hostility here in washington, it's refreshing to hear a republican with kind words about the president. thank you for your service, senator. we wish you well. and thanks to all my students tonight. class dismissed. that's tonight's edition of reverend al's weekly report card. [ inhales deeply ] [ sighs ] [ inhales ] [ male announcer ] at cvs health, we took a deep breath... [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] and made the decision to quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. now we invite smokers to quit, too, with our comprehensive program. we just want to help everyone, everywhere, breathe a little easier. introducing cvs health. because health is everything. introducing cvs health. celebrate what's new, the bigger, better menu at red lobster! with more of what you love! try our newest wood-grilled combination! maine lobster, extra jumbo shrimp, and salmon!

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developing news on the george washington bridge scandal. for almost a year, the federal investigation has been shrouded in mystery. today the "new york times" has details, reporting that prosecutors may use a fraud statute to bring charges against people linked to governor christie. quote, they could argue that associates of governor chris christie used the bridge for a purpose other than its intended one. the times also reporting prosecutors are focused on

whether claims of a traffic study were part of a cover-up. but something prosecutors apparently still don't know, why was this e-mail sent? quote, time for some traffic problems in fort lee. and who else knew about the plan? let's be very clear. there have been no reports that governor christie knew about the lane closings before they happened or that he could face any charges. but there are still serious questions about what happened, who role his aides played, and the big news tonight, fraud charges may be coming. joining me now, former u.s. attorney kendall coffey, thank you for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me, reverend. kendall, explain these fraud charges. what does this tell you? >> it's a creative theory. 666 is used in a number of different corruption cases. but here they're focusing on whether someone in control of

something like a bridge is intentionally missupplying it. that is, using it for personal or political purpose rather than a governmental purpose. and that charging theory answers a question many of us have been exploring, reverend. we talked about it on the show. what would be the federal charges that would be brought in this particular case. now we have an idea what it means. and that's a terrifying thought for the people who have been investigated. because if the feds are serious, and an indictment follows to somebody, there are going to be a lot of shock waves that follow from that. >> now, how serious would fraud charges be? >> well, the statute has as much as ten years in prison. and it's somewhat creative in the sense that this hasn't been typically used. what they're basically saying is that this bridge, instead of being used as a path between two states, was being used as a path way for political retribution and revenge. but i think it's a viable

theory. and keep in mind, that once people hear the knock of feds on the door, they really start to thinking about what they can do to save themselves. saving themselves usually means finding information that the feds think is valuable, that aims at someone else. >> now, "the times" also reports that prosecutors also have interviewed several local and union officials who were promised jobs or benefits in exchange for endorsing mr. christie, suggesting that the inquiry is looking into the use of port authority as an instrument for the governor's re-election campaign. what does that tell you, kendall? >> it tells us it's a wide-ranging investigation. that they're looking at whether there was a cover-up in the allegation of this being a routine traffic study. i've got to tell you, as long as the feds are looking behind every tree, under every rock, behind every blade of grass, nobody's out of the woods yet. >> now, there's been a lot of

talk, kendall, this year about governor christie and recently a lot of talk about how he's not a target, or is not implicated in the investigation so far, but these charges, taking him out of the immediate zone of danger here, these charges are serious, though. >> they're very serious charges. >> these are his top aides they're talking about. >> very senior aides. certainly there continues to be a view that there was a culture in this office that created these kind of events. that's very different from saying the head of the office has a criminal responsibility for this culture. but keep in mind that once, and if -- we have to say if -- charges are announced against anybody, that's usually not the end of it. because whoever is facing charges is gonna have either to face trial where the percentages

of acquittal are very low in the federal system, or face the music in the sense of coming clean, telling everything they know, and trying to make the best deal they can with federal authorities. >> well, "the times" also says this could go well into 2015. we'll be watching. kendall coffey, thank you for your time tonight. have a great weekend. >> thanks, reverend. coming up, elizabeth warren's moment. how her surge can help protect president obama's legacy and stop the gop agenda in its tracks. also, new reaction tonight to the hollywood hacking scandal and those e-mails about president obama. and do dogs go to heaven? the pope made some comments that has a lot of people talking. "conversation nation" is next. [coughing]

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or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. time now for "conversation nation." joining me tonight, political strategist angela rye, "the washington post" dana millbank, and mic.com's liz plank. thank you all for being here tonight. we start with elizabeth warren's moment. the senator electrifying the left this week with a fiery speech, vowing to fight against republicans rigging the game for wall street. >> this is a democracy, and the american people didn't elect us to stand up for citigroup.

they elected us to stand up for all the people. >> angela, she's emerged as the voice of the left. how big of a moment is this for her? >> well, i think it's right along pace with everything else that elizabeth warren has done. i think the one thing that's been really interesting about this debate over the last couple of days are the other key players that have been involved. all women. i know a lot of folks have been talking about nancy pelosi today, but there's also another woman, the ranking member of financial services, none other than maxine waters, rev, who you know very well. she is a person who brought this to the forefront and has championed this and pushed it to the point of a meeting with white house chief of staff yesterday evening. she also should take as much credit for this. but for 2016 purposes, it's another great moment for elizabeth warren, i think a reason why progressives are eager for her to get on the ballot. >> i must say, i agree with you

on maxine waters. it was the waters-pelosi move. let me ask you, 300 former obama campaign workers have signed a petition, calling on elizabeth warren to run for president. does that indicate something? >> well, you know what i think is happening here, reverend? this is sort of the beginning of the equivalent of a tea party on the left, that's really a populist movement that's really gathering steam now and is only going to pick up from there. elizabeth warren shows no indication that she's interested in or preparing to run for president. i'm not even sure she's aware of the power she has. i was there at the event with maxine waters, she was raising her objections, not saying she's necessarily going to use procedural objections to bring down the bill, but just her saying that nearly killed the thing in the house, but pulling so many democrats away from it. she has enormous, awesome power.

not clear that she's going to use that in a presidential way, though. >> liz, if she does not run, and the left, or progressives are galvanized, that create a vacuum that someone else could step in, or this only liz warren's moment? >> no, absolutely. i think the energy that she's bringing is definitely beneficial to the democratic party, whether she runs or not. and she's been able to do so much for the party, you know, making congressional hearings go viral. that's not something that a politician has done very often. and for her, i think the challenge is going to be the broadening, if she does decide to run, broadening her topic. she's big on economic reform and wall street. can she be as big on foreign policy? can she talk about isis as well as wall street? that is going to be what she'll have to determine. >> okay, also in politics, is

mitt romney ready for a three-peat? romney associate says he's more open to a 2016 run after sounding, quote, unimpressed with the emerging gop field. dana, are those binders full of women coming back for round three? >> i don't know. you think maybe they could talk bob dole into coming back and doing this instead. i think this is very self-serving of mitt romney right now. in fact, the objection he raises to a jeb bush candidacy is saying, jeb bush is too close to business. so i think there may be a certain lack of self-awareness on mitt romney's part here. but he wants everybody to sort of beg him to wear the white hat and come in and rescue the republican party. i think that's the kind of rescuing this party doesn't need. >> angela, i mean, should i call big bird and tell him to be careful, watch out? >> hash tag you're fired. um, yeah, not only big bird, but

the other 47% that romney has summarily dismissed in his last presidential run. i don't think that anyone is more ready for a romney run than himself. and i think that's probably about it. if you fail three times, that's three strikes and you're all the way out. please do not come back. >> liz, let's go to more fall-out from the leaked hollywood e-mails and some awkward timing. in l.a. last night, the premiere for sony's movie, the interview, was odd. no red carpet, no photos, no interviews. it all came in the wake of e-mails joking about president obama and race. sony executive amy pascal and power producer scott rudin have both apologized for the e-mails. angela, let me go to you and i want you in on this, liz. is the controversy going to lead to any real change in hollywood? i said last night, i spoke to

miss pascal after attacking this statement. we agreed to meet. i'm really not sure about this apology, given the climate in hollywood, in terms of the lack of diversity. will there be change? >> rev, i think that we have to take a step back and examine the facts before us. you're here in d.c. right now, for a march because there needs to be a para dime shift in the way in which people of all racial backgrounds are treated. it's time to address equity and equality in all of these spaces. and hollywood is definitely one of them. reverend jackson has been doing the silicon valley stuff because diversity is a problem there too. nothing will change with diversity training. there has to be a culture shift in all of these spaces for "the butler" and django jokes not to

surface. they need to change the way they deal with people of other races. >> liz, will this lead to real change? >> i would love to believe that. i don't think so. i have to agree with angela. i think it's interesting that an industry that's believed to be so progressive and demonized by progressives are being too progressive is demonized when it comes to race and gender as well. couple hours ago, we had an interesting leak about inside the hack, we have information about salaries. within sony, there's a huge gender gap between male and female employees and even amongst stars and celebrities. there's interesting information about jennifer lawrence actually being paid less than her male counterparts in american hustle, even though she was a way bigger star. so they're going to have a lot of explaining to do. >> please, everyone, stay with me. when we come back, aloha, mr. president. will the presidential library

land in hawaii? and pope francis, dogs, and heaven. it will all make sense, next. good morning everybody. we are about to make more deliveries to more places than anybody on earth. we have the speed. we have the technology. and we have the team. we made over 15 billion successful deliveries last year. 15 billion! football has a season. baseball has a season. this is our season.

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where will president obama's presidential library be? it's down to three cities. two universities in chicago made the list. he lived there for more than 20 years. new york made the cut. he went to columbia university. and finally, the big underdog, hawaii. he was born there. he vacations there, and really, who wouldn't want a library on the beach? this is what an obama presidential library in hawaii might look like. liz, what do you think? a luau at a library? >> just looking at that, makes me want to run away from cold new york right now. i definitely vote for hawaii. it would be the first presidential library on the beach in the history of america. i definitely think we should make it a first and go with hawaii. i would certainly go and visit

it. >> dana? >> i think we need more research and there should be a fact-finding mission and i'm agreeing to go on it right now and see just what kind of location they're scouting out there. >> angela? >> rev, you know i have to disagree with my lovely co-panelists here and say that i think it belongs in the windy city, for lots of reasons. i know, dana, i'm sorry. but you can go on that fact-finding mission as well. >> then you got a deal. [ laughter ] >> well, we'll send dana to hawaii, and we'll send you to the windy city. >> perfect, reverend. finally tonight, pope francis breaks from tradition. this week he was comforting a little bit boy who just lost his dog. and he said, quote, one day we will see our animals again in the eternity of christ. paradise is open to all of god's creatures. liz, pope francis has a 78% approval rating in the u.s. does it go to 100 now? >> i'm sure it does.

and amongst dogs too hopefully. i mean, he's been such a champion when it comes to diversity, and now he's extending that even to the animal kingdom. so i'm a huge fan. i was a huge fan and i'm a bigger fan even today. >> angela, you come out of a church background. how does this go with your theology? >> i think it's fantastic unless he's including roaches. because he said all god's creatures. i don't do roaches. >> and rats. >> and rats. >> conservatives may have a problem with this or may argue this. >> yeah, no, this has -- >> it wouldn't be the first thing they've argued. >> no. but this has been a long standing theological question and it is going to disturb some people. because he does not just say cats and dogs, he said all creatures. i don't know if that includes roaches.

but think about that hamburger you're eating tonight, you may see it again. >> what! >> leave it to dana -- well, i'm a vegetarian, i won't see the hamburger because i didn't see it. but i think it raises a serious theological question, aside from the obvious attention that it generates. and liz, i happen to feel this pope is a lot more strategic than people think. because i think sometimes what it looks like he says spontaneously, he does want to stir a re-thinking and a new discussion on things that have long been put aside as just accepted. >> absolutely. and i think that's really going to be bringing in not only young people, but even maybe children. the church is the oldest institution. and it's had trouble reaching millenials. it's had trouble reaching young people. now we have a pope that's on twitter. we have a pope that makes these

kinds of comments and wants to stir some conversation, wants to stir debate. and i think that's a good thing. >> well, the pope is coming. pope francis is coming to the u.s. in 2015. a big event in philadelphia and some other places. it's gonna be big. angela, dana, and liz, thank you for your time. and dane a good luck on your hawaiian mission. >> thank you, appreciate it, rev. when we come back, the fight for justice and the growing national movement. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. started using gain flings,fe their laundry smells more amazing than ever.

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panta layio, all other officers, ems workers, they failed me. when i see them, i have asthma, and i'm scared. i'm scared that one day i will say, i can't breathe, and nobody won't help me. >> earlier in the day, we saw another dramatic display in washington. dozens of black congressional staff members staged a walk-out on the steps of the capitol, and put their hands up to protest police killings in america. this issue isn't going away. in fact, the calls for justice are getting louder. that's why my civil rights organization, the national action network, along with other civil rights groups, will lead a justice for all march in washington tomorrow. i'll march with the families of eric garner, michael brown jr, akai gurley, tamir rice, and trayvon martin. for more information go to our

website at national action network.net. everyone should stand up, of all races. the only way that wrong can persist, to paraphrase dr. king is when good men and women sit and do nothing. thanks for waiting and thanks for watching and thanks for being vigilant. thanks for watching the show tonight. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. power and torture. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. power and torture are the big questions tonight. who is calling the shots in washington? and has the united states sworn off the use of enhanced interrogation techniques in the future? on the power front, the emerging