someone well-known to police. >> he's an iranian cleric by the name of haron monis. we understand he was granted political asylum in australia. >> good day, i'm andrea mitchell in washington where we are monitoring breaking news from australia, from sydney. the sudden and violent end to a hostage standoff in the heart of that city a little more than an hour ago, tactical police stormed a cafe where customers and employees were taken hostage. you can hear gun fire and explosions. there are reports, not confirmed by nbc news, of injuries and possible fatal outs from the scene. we're waiting word on the condition of the suspect, haron monis, a self-described cleric and activists with a criminal background. joining me is nbc's jim maceda

from london and sarah. sarah, first to you. you've been on duty for hours. tell us the latest you know about the suspect and the situation. >> well, the laitest is that we still see plenty of police presence here, andrea. we still see police cars. just a moment ago more hegd dad down to the scene. this is the mop-up stage of the situation. as you mentioned, the sydney siege drew to a dramatic close just about an hour ago. and this followed a situation which some of the hostages had escaped, and they fled the building. it was a short time after that, that something happened, there was some exchange of gun fire, and suddenly that sound of the flash grenades as the police went in and it all was brought to a close. there were several people brought out on stretchers. their exact condition we can't say. but ambulance australia here in new south wales say some people

have been transported to the hospital. just taking you back, this entire scene began shortly before 10:00 a.m. today. to set the scene, we're in a beautiful part of the city, the center of the financial district, the media center. this cafe, is only a block from the u.s. consulate, a short walk from the sydney opera house. and it's right near the australian reserve bank, which is basically the federal reserve of australia. so absolutely in the heart of a very dynamic and important part of the city. and a number of people were simply having a coffee when the gunman came in and the next thing they knew, they were hostages forced to put their hands up against the windows and hold up an islamic banner. police liquidly cordoned off the area. they moved with great speed and precision, i must say, and it was all done very calmly. but then here in the waning hours after about 11 of those hostages had escaped, something

happened. we've heard from one report that one gunshot was fired, probably by the suspect, probably by the gunman, in the cafe. and at that point the police felt they had no choice but to move in. they did so. the siege was brought to a conclusion. but i must tell you, andrea, it was incredibly dramatic when it was happening. we're about 200 yards away, and there was a huge explosive sound followed by gun fire, the smell of smoke, suddenly ambulances heading off in that direction. and now things resuming some degree of quiet, and we're waiting to learn the condition of the hostages and the gunman. >> sara, what do we know about this man? because he had a long connection with -- criminal connections in the past with police. >> yes, he did. this is a man who was an iranian immigrant to australia. he came here in the 1990s, and

he has been a thorn in the side of law enforcement for years. he was a self h-proclaimed shai, it wasn't as if he had some official designation for that. and there were a number of times when he had been in trouble. the most recent one, and quite dramatic, was when he was named as an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife. and this was a murder in which she was stabbed and then set alight. but he was given bail as he was awaiting facing those charges. it was during that time that he was on bail that everything happened here at this cafe. so this is not the only situation involving him and the law, but it is the most recent one. and the one that i am sure will be receiving a great deal of scrutiny. andr andrea? >> sara, as you stand by, we'll bring in jim maceda, our colleague in london. what more do we know about him?

he's supposed to be an iranian immigrant to australia, such a welcoming country. but at the same time, of course, most iranians are shia, not sunni. when we talk about isis and the recent involvement in australia against isis, isis is sunni. so it seems as though this could be a one-off. this could be a classic lone wolf. >> that's right. it does look like it's a one-off. this individual acting it would appear more on his own and not as part of any radical islamist or extremist group. we only have to see the kind of amateurish moments in this extraordinarily long ordeal, for instance, the swapping of the flag or the seeking of the isis flag because he found out he had an al nusra flag by mistake. sheikh heron as he went by was apparently out on bail, as sara

said, faces a dozen sexual assault charges, found guilty of hate letter he sent to families of at least eight australia soldiers killed in afghanistan. he is facing charges in connection with the murder of his ex-wife. he was in court only last friday, just three days ago, and he reportedly failed there to, in his last legal challenge, fu will, to lift any of those charges. he again reportedly became increasingly angry because he was not able to see his children. so where does that leave us? he could have been a deranged man acting solely to get attention, or he could be a so-called lone wolf motivated -- just motivated by and using as cover a group like isis. but again he doesn't seem to be a member of any jihadist group, and that became increasingly clear as this extraordinary

standoff unfolded. >> sara james, we've gotten new information now on the number of patients who have been taken to the hospital. the new south wales police, the local or state police there, saying that they are treating a number of patients and transported the injured to a range of hospitals and we'll have further information to come. so we don't know whether these are injured people. we don't know the number of possible fatalities and what has happened to the gunman. what about the overall attitude, the public opinion in australia about the isis, the anti-isis coalition? >> reporter: well, it's very interesting because there's a range of different opinions, and it comes up in a number of different ways. for example, i spoke to one person who is at the lowy institute, a think tank here. he was talking about, in terms of the middle east, in terms of isis, there's actually a disproportionate number of australians who have actually joined with isis in one form or

another. about 100 australians, many of them have actually been killed in recent days in the conflict. but still quite astonishing to see that number. but on the other side, you know, there are -- obviously the overwhelming majority are peaceable people. there's been a fascinating campaign here. there was a woman who was wearing a head scarf, and she saw another person and took it off hurriedly. she was worried about it. the woman said, don't feel like you have to take that off. and a campaign has started called "i'll ride with you," and it's gained an enormous following on twitter and other forms of social media. it's basically australians saying to muslims in this country, if you feel nervous in the wake of what's happened, that people are going to be hostile to you because you, too, are muslim, we'll ride with you on the train, on the bus. just let us know. this has really been quite an unexpected and gratifying aspect of what's been coming out of

this. so that's been another element of it here. so i think mostly the feelings today, though, have been with those who are the hostages. i mean, i spoke to a woman who said, you know, the woman who was holding up the banner, she makes my coffee every day. i mean, this is the most human thing, going out for a coffee and suddenly you're in the center of a hostage drama. andrea? >> sara james, thank you so much for being with us. long duty there on this very difficult day in australia as we continue to try to find out exact cli what happened and what the moat vastivations were. joining me in washington, michael sheehan, former assistant secretary of defense for special operations in low intensity conflict, distinguished chair for the combating of terrorism center at west point. thank you so much. we know each other from the state department, the pentagon, many years back, and the nypd post-9/11, their counter terror efforts. here you have the heart of a

major city. what's going on as the local police are trying to figure out the tactical operations? and what are they dealing with? >> they're doing a number of things. they're probably warning about copycats. they're probably putting out information to up security. buff the most important thaing they're going to do is try to figure out if this guy has links to isis or terrorist cells so they can roll that up. that appears that isn't the case, but they won't leave stones unturned. >> you know a lot of state department security, post-benghazi was there was fast action. our consulate is right there, a block from this coffee shop. they shut down and moved the consulate general and their critical staff to what they are calling a secure location. they are still, quote, operational, but they made a very fast move to get out of that media. they didn't know if there was a bomb or some other potential

further hazazarhazard. >> an appropriate move on two basis. one, americans are often a target of these type of attacks. good to get them out of the way. second, they were so close to the scene, they probably wanted to give the police more room to operate. in both cases, they shut down appropriately. >> let's talk about the lone wolf threat. we saw what happened in ottawa, we've seen the threats of beheadings and the ji haugh haudist messages go out, kill somebody for isis. this doesn't seem to be be the motive here. it seems to be perhaps more personal, more of a criminal motive or a confusion, who know whaz's going on in this man's head. but this is the underlying fear, and it has been according to intelligence officials here exactly what they are afraid of here in the united states. >> right. by the way, that's nothing new, as you know. al qaeda has been calling for that for years and years, for people to pick up and attack in the west, in particular in the united states. isis now has picked that up as well, a very sophisticated on social media and we're waiting to see if they have more effectiveness than al qaeda did in calling for attacks by

individuals in the west and in the united states. but that is their strategy, and in this case it does not look like this guy was an isis operative. but indeed he did take one of their flags, which shows the power of isis, the power of their words. even with this guy as you mentioned may probably be a shia. he still wanted that flag, he wanted to be associated with that movement because they are in fact have reached the imagination of a lot of these violent jihadis around the world. >> that's the propaganda value and the impact of social media in a strange way, isis has not been as praigally effective as al qaeda was. >> right. >> during the 2000s and pre and post-9/ post-9/11. >> that's right. isis came out of nowhere in the last year or two. now they're taking territory and focusing on the war in syria and iraq. it remains to be seen how much they want to export terrorism like al qaeda did to the west and to the u.s. >> whether they can.

but they have this mega phone through social media, where they are trying to gain as many recruits as possible. >> they are. >> very surprised as sara james was by the fact that so many australians have tried to -- have been recruited and tried to volunteer and get to the battlefield. >> this is a popular war for young islamic, angry men. this has great momentum, all that great footage of these people riding through in their trucks and vehicles with victory. that's been a great magnet for these people. remains to be seen how long that will last because once they get over there, it's pretty hard to come back. we'll see what happens. but it is definitely had a great recruitment around the world through that battlefield. >> thank you so very much. coming up, we'll talk to an eyewitness and talk more about how police handle a hostage situation, who's in control, the gunman or the police? this is "andrea mitchell

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. welcome back. as we continue our breaking coverage of the situation in sydney, australia. darby murphy just lives a block from the cafe where the hostage situation is taking place. police will not let him back into his home since all streets are blocked off. after standing outside the cafe for hours he watched some hostages leave the campaign. he joins me now on the phone. thank you so much. i know you're in a safe place. it is all locked down, as we know. tell me, what happened? when did you first realize this was going down? >> the scene here at the moment and for most of the day has just been complete silence throughout the day. i was first alerted to this by a

reporter who i knew was live on the scene right when it was happening about 9:45 a.m., and i have been down here ever since we were told to evacuate. and the scene for the majority of the day has been very quiet, very calm, and really just playing the waiting game. >> but when the police started shooting and when they started taking people out -- we can see some of these pictures -- we've seen that confrontation when the s.w.a.t. team went in. were you nearby? could you see or hear what was going on? >> i was in the press -- i was probably about 500 feet from that. you could hear and see everything very clearly. it started off with a heal hostaho -- male hostage. he had run out literally six

feet from where we were. that's where police stopped him. and within a minute of that, police threw in flash bang stun grena grenades. it was absolute chaos, extremely loud noises. and then within a minute of that, gunshots, loud, loud gunshots, and that's -- it all ended. it was just completely quiet this whole time. then within a matter of minutes we heard gunshots going off and then it was all over within a few minutes. >> has anyone told you what the injuries are? i know there were ambulances, we saw people coming out on stretchers. we don't know hostages, the gunman? >> what we're hearing at the moment is the gunman has deceased. there's one civilian hostage who is deceased. according to some reports, there are another three critically

injured hostages and another two hostages who have gone into cardiac arrest. >> darby murphy, we hope this get rez solved as quickly as possible and that you get back into your home, you and your neighbors in that part of sydney. thank you so much for joining us by telephone. i want to bring in msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh, former atf hostage negotiator. jim, you've been in situations with negotiations. what is the challenge here? they knew his identity very quickly so they knew his background, his criminal past, some of the demands that he was making. how do they navigate around all of that? >> right. it's very delicate, andrea. and you know they were trying to get him on the phone, which was the best thing if they could have gotten him on the phone to negotiate and try to resolve the situation peacefully. but some dynamic likely change nd there, and that's why the second set of hostages ran out. then the commander had to make

the tactical decision to use the emergency assault plan and go in to engage him and rescue most of the hostages. >> jim, i know we're expecting to hear from local police at about 12:30 eastern as they update us on what the situation is, how it was or was not resolved. we've heard reports, which we're not able to confirm until we talk to the police, about the possible death of the gunman, possibly another hostage. what is the calculus, the balancing act? it's so delicate, a life-and-death situation. the s.w.a.t. team outside, the commander has to make a quick decision, balance whether or not going in at that time would save the lives of the remaining hostages. >> right. the critical thing for the on-scene commander is the decision of, you know, is it escalating or deescalating? is it escalating to a point that he needs to do an emergency s

assault? here he made the decision to do the emergency assault. they went in. you hear the flash bangs and see at least three sets of rifle fire, one officer from msnbc's reporting was struck in the face with a pellet. so the hostage taker is shooting at the tactical officers as they're entering. they're shooting at him. he's not going to win a gun battle. they're going to kill him. they're very accurate. they wear protective gear, helmets and bulletproof vests. so they're going to be able to -- he's going to lose the gun fight with the tactical team. sadly, one other person has died and many are critically injured. many escaped probably without critical yourry and escaped with their lives. i think they made the right decision at the right moment. it's a bad outcome on the one hand, but it could have been a lot worse. >> we have not officially confirmed that one of the hostages is dead, but we're waiting for an update on that. jim, what about the possibility

of a bomb? do you think they ruled that out before they made the decision to go in? >> well, i think they were stuck with it, and rhea. i think it's a great question. they likely twent to his home, they knew who he was. they probably searched around for bomb making material, they might have searched his computers. in the feed we saw he was wearing a backpack. he seemed to be walking around with that constantly. could it have been a device in the backpack? we saw a bomb squad come in and do a sweep right after the shooting was over. so it would concern them, but they still had to make their move. we didn't hear loud explosions so no bomb detonated, thank god. but they had it in their calcul calculus. but they had to move. it's very brave. the tactical officers are going in, they're facing gunfire, maybe a bomb. so very brave move. >> do they have a shot through the glass, or is that unrealistic? >> no, it's not unrealistic at all. sometimes it can occur. but it all fends gernds on what

going on inside. if it's not escalating, the on-scene commander may not make that move. if they miss, he could start shooting hostages. everything is delicate. the decisions are very, very calculated. the on-scene commander is trying to glean all of this information. it's the right place for the decisions. the political leaders should all pay attention to this. the person who makes the decision in a situation like this, barricaded gunmen, bombs, hostage scenarios, it's the on-scene commander. it can't be made at white hall or 10 downey street or the white house or the justice department. it has to be made by the on-scene commander right there who's trained, experienced, and can do it within the seconds and minutes those decisions need to be made. >> jim cavanaugh, thanks for your expertise. we'll have all of the latest continuing throughout the hour. up next, the sydney hostage crisis, what does it mean for other countries in this coalition against isis? this is msnbc.

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. 123450. australia is one of 11 nations in the u.s.-led coalition taking on isis. for more on their contribution, i'm joined by nbc's chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. let's talk about australia's role. they've been such a close u.s. ally, which makes them a target for people who are against the u.s. they've had a lot of threats from isis. >> that could very well be the fact. now, it was nearly two months after the u.s. launched the air strike, the air war against isis in iraq and syria that the australians sent some 600 military personnel and a string of fighter bombers to the united arab emirates in the persian gulf. then it was an august 8th that australian fa-18 fighter jets, super horn eliminateethornets, first air strikes against isis in iraq. according to military officials, those air strikes by the

australians have been somewhat limited. now, there were also going to send some 200 personnel, ground troops, to iraq to participate along with the u.s. and coalition nations in the advise and assist for the iraqi forces on the ground there. not in combat but only advise, assist and training of those iraqi forces. and apparently the australian government, the prime minister, is still awaiting approval or authorization from parliament to do that. now, i can tell you, in the early morning briefings here in the pentagon, defense officials and military leadership were told that the intelligence pointed to no direct link between this deadly hostage situation there in australia, in sydney, and the u.s.-led air war against isis in iraq. at least that's the latest take.

>> that's a really important point, and the fact that this man initially had the wrong flag, had an al nusra flag, not an isis flag. he certainly does not seem to be at all connected, maybe inspired in some weird way by their propaganda, but not connected to them at all. >> in fact, the word here was this was a criminal act. they're not even calling it a terrorist act. at least according to the intel early this morning. and that this operation was actually a domestic police operation. so in the eyes of the pentagon, there was of course no u.s. military involvement, none asked, none given in this operation. at at this point it appears according to officials here to be a criminal act, regrettable as it is, there in sydney. >> thank you so much, jim miklaszewski. in other news, sony pictures is holding a meeting with its workforce today as more celebrities are getting caught up in that cyber attack.

over the weekend, an eighth set of data were leaked including unkind e-mails about leonardo dicaprio, will smith's family, and an early version of the screenplay for the new james bond film. sony attorneys have been sending letters, warning media organizations not to use any of the stolen information. the hackers call themselves guardians of peace have promised a christmas gift to come. [coughing] dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow.

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monis, also known as sheikh heron. he's a self-described cleric with a criminal background. new south wales ambulance confirms they are treating a number of patients transporting the injured to sydney hospitals. about 20 minutes after the building was stormed, a bomb disposal robot was seen outside the entrance. and joining me now on the phone is fran noble, a jornist at the daily mail reporting from the scene. fran, thank you for joining us. as you were talking, you could see the vague outline of that robot beginning to approach the cafe. tell us what you know as to injuries, any confirmed deaths. >> so at the moment, a number of the hostages are at different hospitals around sydney. they've been transported there. we saw a number of ambulances on stretchers. they were taken out by police

officers shortly after the gunfire. we're still waiting to hear definite numbers on deaths and casualties, but we understand there are a number of people in critical condition in hospitals. some images showed a number of the hostages leaving the cafe with injuries, blood down their legs, looking obviously very distressed and very pained. we're waiting to hear official word from police in the next half hour or so. >> was this manuel-known? i know he was known to police, but was he known because of his criminal background and whatever publicity he might have been seeking for his various issues? >> yeah, he was quite well-known here in the australian community. very controversial. he has a very liberal take on islam. he doesn't actually belong to any mosques in sydney because he's been so controversial and

really not align with a lot of the muslim australians. some men i spoke to just said it's not the way of their religion and it really is distressing to the muslim community in australia when people are taking such actions. he's also been known to police. a few years ago he sent letters to families of dead soldiers who served in afghanistan, horrible, abusive letters to the families. he's had a number of arrests for indecently assaulting young women and also has been charged by police before and after the murder of a woman who is his ex-wife. it's certainly well-known to police and in the australian community. >> freya, we've been very struck by the outreach, the hash tag i'll ride with you that has been a spontaneous social media response to the fears of some

muslim women wearing the ha jib on public transport after this happened, just what the dimensions were. that does seem to show the open spirit of australia, which goes back centuries. >> it's great to see something like that coming out of such a terrible situation. it's really quite heartening to see australians reacting this way and that this is not the sort of any other australians, that they are an accepting community and we really have to ban together during times like this. i think it's just a really great representation of the thoughts of the majority of australians. we should be there to support each other through times like this. >> freya noble from daily mail austral australia, thank you for joining us. it's very helpful.

and joining me now is "new york times" national security correspondent mark ma zetty. mar mark, in the midst of all we've been covering about the torture report and issues of isis, for this to happen, it was logical that people would be concerned that this was a lone wolf somehow inspired by isis. it does seem like this is a case of someone with a very specific criminal past and his own behavior issues and criminal case pending. >> right. i mean, it is easy for people under any kind of banner to carry out violence so we have to sort of wait and let things settle to find out exactly what the facts are. as we found out in this country, there are people so-called lone wolves who carry out attacks, whether it was ft. hood or other attacks. so to try to draw conclusions about why this person did this at this moment i think is a little too soon. >> again, the counterterrorism

officials here are always concerned about some sort of lone wolf and ottawa-style situation. that is the predominance here because isis is not operational the way al qaeda is, at least we don't think it is. they are more of a threat in the middle east and threats to their neighbors and obviously to journalists and others who become their hostages. but they have not been a threat in terms of a bomb making ability of al qaeda in the rainian peninsula or some of the other terrorist groups. >> right. when the isis threat really became apparent this summer, the growing threat, the intelligence and counterterrorism officials said they didn't seem to pose a direct threat to the united states. they cited other groups having greater ability to carry out attacks in the united states. but they of course raised the possibility that anyone inside the united states who would be inspired by isis could, under that banner, carry out attacks like this.

it's very easy to do, and it's almost impossible to stop. sometimes the power of a group is more just in the message than any kind of ability they have to carry out things on their own. >> now, while we have you here, we just wanted to talk again about dick cheney going on "meet the press" with chuck todd and this comes after john brennan at the cia acknowledged mistakes, acknowledged some of the guidelines had been agreed upon were not used, were exceeded, that that will not happen again. this was cheney on "meet the press" with chuck in the face of that, insisting that nothing that went down was wrong. >> i have no problem as long as we achieve our objective, and our objective is to get the guys who did 9/11 and to avoid another attack against the united states. it worked. it worked now for 13 years. we did capture bin laden.

we captured a lot of senior guys of 9/11. i'd do it again in hey minute. >> cheney also insisted that it was productive, which was also one of the issues that brennan and the white house have acknowledged, that brennan said it's unoable what actually led to certain intelligence being gained. let me play part of that for you. >> does it plant any seed of doubt in you? >> no, no seed of doubt. >> all of this information in here, no seed of doubt whether this worked or not? >> it worked. it absolutely did work. >> mark, your take? >> so over the last week we've seen very different messages from different camps. you have cheney and former cia director mike hayden basically saying that all of this was completely central to the successes of the last 12 years in terms of capturing al qaeda leaders as well as thwarting plots. they say you could not have done it without these methods.

in case anyone was surprised, they shouldn't have been dick cheney who was completely endorsed what happened and said, as he said yesterday, he would do it again. the brennan argument was somewhere trying to sort of thread a middle path. it was to say that the program itself that the cia detention interrogation program got results and it's unknowable whether it came from specific techniques it's a nuanced argument to have to make especially in the environment where so very clear positions are staked out. but that's sort of the middle path that both brennan and to some extent obama find themselves, where they still feel like they have to somehow support some of the officers that did it and only criticize those who, quote, went over the line, beyond the guidelines that the justice department had established. >> and, mark, as though there wasn't enough going on with the consul being moved in sydney.

this just in from the state department, we've known it because our own operations were cut off, but the state department didn't want to announce it until they knew what happened. during construction, there's a big power outage at main straight at 21st and c streets. one of the power r lines was accidentally severed according to jen psaki, resulting ining power outage at the department of state. it's going to take pepco, the utility here, several hours to restore regular power so nonemergency personnel are being told to telecommunicate. people have been sent home. you can't make this up. this was during a period, of course, with the operation center there, mark, when they did not know what was going down in sydney and their consulate was a block away from the cafe. >> right. we're all trying to respond to this, you know, in realtime as it started happening last night and trying to figure out what --

the early hours of these events are always the most chaotic because you sort of don't know how big a deal it is, how many people there are involved, whether it's an isolated incident or not. so as reporters sometimes we try to find some sources. they're watching tv. they're watching you just to find out as much as they can about what's happening. we're all kind of looking at the same images. >> we should, of course, point out that a lot of their phones and computers w s were knocked so we weren't getting messages back, which of course only added to the confusion. thanks, mark. great to see you. >> thank you. and up next, what today's standoff in sydney could mean for officials fry trying to prevent lone wolf attacks. tap of my geico app. oh, that's so cool. well, i would disagree with you but, ah, that would make me a liar. no dude, you're on the jumbotron!

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new york. this is a big issue for the muslim community in australia as you've got this man with uncertain motives, who is causing fear in the middle of the biggest city in the country. >> yeah. what we've seen in the past in similar attacks like this is there tends to be public outlash, sometimes against the muslim community. the muslim community in australia, pretty sizeable, 500,000 in a country of 23 million. but they also have a rich immigration history. the muslim population very assimilated, integrated into australian society, a country made up of a lot of immigrants. a lot of people on social media have come back suggesting they would ride along with muslims to try to prevent any kind of this public backlash that may happen against the community at large. in situations like this, authorities and officials will try to differentiate between this lone wolf or type of lone

wolf attack if it turns out to be and the broader, general muslim population, which has already come out and very much democra condemned this attack. they tried to avoid being associated with these terrorist attacks, but sometimes that's hard when all kinds of questions are raised in the media about the motivations behind this individual, obviously an individual who is at least appears on the surface to be muslim and tried to use the shroud if you will of the political terrorism including isis and other groups in this attacks. i think it's something officials will try to differentiate between. it's certainly something that is already weighing in on the public conscious of a lot of australians who are responding to today's tragedy in sydney. >> ayman mohyeldin in new york, thank you so much. as the standoff ends there's a lot still to learn. stay with us here on "andrea mitchell reports" as we expect more on the situation in sydney.

back with us now is michael sheehan, former nypd deputy commissioner for counterterrorism among other titles after 9/11. what would your former colleagues in the nypd be doing even as sydney was unfolding? >> right now they're beating at bushes looking at suspects and i assure they're looking at many to see if any of them might be showing signs to conduct copycat attacks. i'm sure the fbi is doing the same thing. >> the copycat would be, no matter what this man's motives are in australia, he's getting world attention. and crazy people like lots of attention, isis likes attention. >> absolutely. by bringing isis up and asking for the flag, this became an isis event, whether he had no connection or not. so those others that may be inspired by isis, as you know there's so much social media

advocating this type of action, nypd and other cities have to be concerned about a copycat. >> the difference between what they were doing and what you had to initiate from scratch after 9/11 in new york is social media, how this stuff moves so quickly. >> they're much better than al qaeda was. these are very sophisticated people on social media. unfortunately there's some good programs in place and i think the leadership at nypd will be well prepared for it. >> how well prepared is the u.s. government in terms of the state department and their responsiveness? >> well, they have a worldwide response to try to get the world to respond to try to tamp down this type of message, which is very difficult because of the freedom of the interknit. but at least try to counter it, counter the message with their own message of peace and stability rare than hatred and vie lenls. >> michael, thank you for being here on a real emergency day. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." we've been covering breaking news for the hour. follow the show online and on

facebook and on twitter. my colleague ronan farrow joins us next. >> thank you, andrea. great coverage of this. as your show suggested to everybody watching at home, still a lot of information coming in very fast about that siege in sydney. we're going to drill down with voices from within australia and outside of australia. leading experts on the terrorist threats faced by that country and what the rest of the world can learn from it, as well as an interesting take on the social media dimension of this particular crisis and what tech companies were doing to respond faster than we've ever seen before in the midst of this. time for the your business entrepreneur of the week. christmas may come just once a year, but at roger lund's company it happens nearly every day. ''s oxford pennsylvania store the christmas house is closed four days a year. why? because i says it's because of customer demand. for more, watch "your business"

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from the police on exactly what the fallout was there, how many wounded, how many potentially dead, and what happened to that lone gunman. what we know at this point is there was a 16-hour saga in which that gunman held people hostage inside lindt cafe. that's right in the bustling heart of the city, martin place mall. we're getting new information about how things played out there. at this hour, a few facts we do know. we know a number of hostages escaped over the course of the siege, including a group i think we have footage of them breaking out of that setti inting throug side door. you see that woman appearing to be an employee of that lindt coffee shop. some were injured, we saw them taken from the scene on stretchers. we don't know the fate of the gunman, man haron monis. he's a