pope francis behind-the-scenes had written letters to both president obama and president castro seeing an opening here and then the vatican brokered a secret meeting between the u.s. and cuban governments. >> come on, frank. is there nothing this lunatic won't heal with compassion? i'm sorry. that does it. i'm calling for a trade embargo on vatican city. americans will have to live without their major export, harlequin pantaloons.

the minami show ends i'm on a plane to havana to investigate this travesty. i'll scout every rum distillery and i don't care how many 1957 chevys i have to buy for $250 until the job is done i will not rest except in a hammock. >> good morning, everybody, it's thursday, december 18th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, the president on council of foreign affairs richard haas and thomas roberts from "way too early." we'll get to the big story about cuba in a moment. we have the president of the american conservative union joining us. he was born in cuba. he'll be joining us from miami in a few minutes. a lot to get to. we'll begin with sony, which has cancelled plans to release "the

interview" on christmas day. there's no plans to release the video on demand or on dvd. the controversial movie is now nowhere to be found on sony pictures website. the announcement came hours after the nation's five largest movie chains including regal and amc decided not to show "the interview" after alleged hackers threatened 9/11 attacks. while there's no credible evidence of a terror plot reuters is reporting showing the movie could cause possible cyber attacks. an official tells nbc news that the u.s. has concluded north korea is behind the sony hack. officials are gathering evidence to determine who exactly is responsible. >> mike barnacle, the terrorists have won. i mean it's very rare you can say what the a straight face. opinion this case it's true. the terrorists have won. >> here's the question. this is just a movie.

what if they dislike an editorial in the "new york times" or the "wall street journal." what if they dislike a book that's published in the united states. >> boy, mika, we've laid a great precedent, haven't we? all you have to do is hack into a company and the company will completely capitulate. change their business plan for the entire year. this is beyond pathetic. >> it's movies right now. richard haas, what's the concern here? by the way, what would have been the other option that the terrorists don't win this case. >> sony got it wrong coming and going. there's something to be questioned about a movie that's a comedy about assassinating a foreign leader. we wouldn't feel secure if the shoe was on the other foot. then capitulating, it's a precedent. they should find ways -- as a country take the larger question. we have to fine ways of pushing back. >> answer mike barnacle's question. what if the "new york times" writes an op-ed tomorrow and then they decide they will hack

into "new york times." why can't we stop this. >> three things. is there anything companies aren't doing in cyber defense? the answer is yes. offense tends to be ahead of defense. second of all north korea is a very concentrated country in terms of political authority. can we not look at cyber tools to go after the pillars of their political authority, the military, the political leadership? thirdly what i think this does and is a bigger question it raises the question of why we continue to tolerate an outlaw regime in the world. we negotiated for ten years to get north korea to give up its nuclear weapons. we got nowhere. only one country that has real influence over north korea and its name is china. if the united states has serious problems with north korea the mail box is beijing, we should nut at the top of our list. >> beijing is always looking -- >> the question is they are bad actors already so what keeps them from doing that to the "new

york times" or others? i would go with the assumption they have been able to hack these places. what they did to sony they didn't do overnight. they knew this film was coming up well in advance. they lined up this material to pants them in the world. they've done this already and have that in their pocket. >> think about it. it's not just the financial institutions. it can be our water supplies. it could be the nuclear power plants. it could be, you know, the banks we go to. it could go to everything. you know, somebody could have their credit record destroyed overnight. >> but i do have a question. nothing justifies that but isn't it this movie that triggered that. you're right. >> but it goes beyond that. you dismissed what i said let me come back to it. the united states is not made the reunification of north korea a foreign policy priority. we lived with it and basically

uselessly -- >> what have the china done stand up to the north koreans. >> every now and then they put economic pressure on them. this is a very unhappy relationship. >> why do they allow them to be bad actors. >> they are nervous if north korea would unravel you have a unified korean peninsula under seoul under part of the american strategic center. so one of the questions is what is it we can do save the chinese to rethink their policy about north korea? what ways can we put pressure on north korea to basically say your future is not to be assured if you keep up this kind of behavior. >> one other thing, mitt romney is urging sony to release "the interview" the movie for free online and ask for a $5 donation to fight ebola. >> i like it. interesting. the uproar over "the interview" has killed plans for a steve carell thriller that was to be set in north korea. a texas theater that planned to show "the interview" will show

"team america" instead. one of the main characters in that movie was a marionette version -- >> "team america" -- everybody should see "team america" and the concept was by the geniuses who brought you south park. the concept is we went around and saved the world from terrorist attacks but we blew up the eiffel tower, we blew up big ben. we basically destroyed the world to save it. but they have a string of -- who are the celebrities who are actually guarding the newark gulags. >> they had that song of kim jong-un how lonely he was that he's not a big fan of. >> of "team america." >> he pays a lot of attention -- >> his sense of humor or lack thereof. >> what else do you do there?

>> they are quick to criticize, pulling the movie and theaters that decided against showing the film. jimmy kimmel, steve carell who are tweeting and saying things that showing negative reactions. >> all right. so while we're on the topic, mika, of the final vitiges of a by gone era let's talk about cuba. >> the other big story and making headlines, president obama hailing a new chapter in diplomatic ties with cuba. five decades after the cuban missile crisis had the world on the brink of nuclear war the ground breaking developments began with yesterday's prisoner swap. cuba released american aide worker alan gross imprisoned for five years along with an unnamed u.s. intelligence agent who spent the last 20 years in a cuban prison. in return the u.s. released

three cuban spies that intelligence officers helped put in jail. the last of the so-called cuban five detained in 1998. it is a move that president obama says puts an end to an outdated approach that he argues has failed to advance u.s. interests. >> neither the american nor cuban people are well served by a rigid policy that's road in events that took place before most of us were born. i've instructed secretary kerry to immediately begin discussions with cuba to re-establish diplomatic relations that have been severed since january of 1961. where we disagree we'll raise those differences directly. as we will continue to do on issues related to democracy and human rights in cuba. but i believe we can do more to support the cuban people and promote our values through engagement. after all, these 50 years have shown that isolation has not worked. it's time for a new approach.

>> the president's plans are sweeping. they include re-opening the u.s. embassy in had a va narcotics reviewing cuba's designation as a state sponsor of terror. expanding economic ties. and easing travel restrictions. he looks forward to engaging congress in an open and honest debate about lifting the long standing embargo. on another note americans who travel to cuba can bring back $400 worth of goods including $100 limit for alcohol and tobacco. >> that's the richard haas plan. richard, "the washington post" tough on this as well as many people on both sides of the aisle. marco rubio saying he may be the worst noboegotiator of all time. >> okay. >> he just may be. here's what "the washington post" said. in recent months the outlook for

the castro regime in cuba was growing steadily darker. the modest reforms adopted to improve its abysmal economic situation evolves from cuba as restriction on economic freedoms. the huge subsidies that kept the castros afloat were in peril. "the washington post" goes on to say a growing number of cubans were asking for basic human rights. on wednesday cass tros suddenly obtained a comprehensive bail out from the obama administration. "the washington post" editorial staff right? >> no. what you had the cubans doing some half steps and the united states in return agreeing to some -- >> what did they say was wrong? >> they suggest we have no more leverage over cuba in order to get things like full democracy. >> we should have gotten more out of it. >> that's what the embargo is. >> they were back on their heels.

oil prices is collapsing. venezuela is collapsing. they had nowhere to go. why bail them out at that point by giving them everything they asked for, richard. >> not everything. they released 53 political prisoners. they agreed to greater internet and telecommunications access. >> where were those 53 prisoners released? >> what we want is a rapid peaceful transition of cuba to something that's democratic and market oriented. it won't happen in one piece. it will happen in stages. >> what is there in cuba to make you think democracy is next? >> part of it you got generation leaving. part of it you got the end of the subsidy, 80,000 to 100,000 barrels of oil out of venezuela, russia subsidies have long since gone. we are going to open the place up to information. where else is this place going to go. put the shoe on the other foot. you're basically saying why are we positive that engagement that

easing restrictions would work. i would say to you what evidence do you have that 50 or 60 years of economic pressure have worked? what we don't want the place to crumble, we don't want the place to be massive, even greater human hardship. we want to see a transition to a market oriented democracy. >> who is after the castros? >> next generation of people -- >> who is the thomas jefferson of cuba. did he go to harvard with iraq and afghanistan? >> you won't get it overnight. you're obtaining enormous amounts of leverage. you're under estimating the trojan horse idea. american economic intellectual engagement is more likely to make cuba more open than close it. >> with the exception of the last line the editorial you just read which refers to yesterday, wednesday and the action that occurred yesterday, the rest of that editorial could have been written 10, 20, 30 years ago. cuba is on the ropes. about to collapse. there's a tremendous yearning

for democracy in cuba. today as we speak about this, as both sides get into a debate about this we're actively engaged on a narrowly basis with iran. in the middle east. we're actively engaged with china. what is wrong with us? this is more than 50 years that we've been looking at this ridiculous proposition that we can't do anything. >> how is iran working for you >> that's the point. we deal with the iranians why not deal with cubans. >> it's only 90 miles away. it's 90 miles off the shore thereafter. we have a large cuban population that lives here. generationally there's a huge divide, how you feel about this. millennials know why we have a trade embargo with cuba? >> let me go to havana, cubaing right now because we'll lose the window with nbc news mark party. mark, what reaction your seeing there? >> reporter: well, it's

interesting, mika. you guys are talking about the controversy. here there's no controversy. people are thrilled by the announcements that came out of washington and havana yesterday about diplomatic normalization. this is wonderful news to the people here. i can tell you from covering here, this country for years, cubans have long wanted better relations with the united states. they believe that would be the way to end the trade embargo, could help improve their lives economically and politically. they've want this for a long time. so when you talk to people in the streets here today they are absolutely thrilled with this possibility occurring. now many people are also worried, they are concerned that maybe this won't happen given up the and down nature of u.s.-cuban relations but many people are quite positive saying this may be the very best chance they have had in decades to see dramatic change, economic change, all kinds of change that

could lead to political change to a point made earlier times are tough here but i remember being here during the special period as they called it after the collapse of the soviet union and it was really dismal. it was a tough, tough time and the government survived that. and so comparing now to then, is instructive. it's also important to know that a lot of young people here who talk to us are disaffected. they are on the internet. they are swroegt their feet many times by going to other countries. they are the ones who would like to see this change and for whom the change may be aimed, mika. >> mark potter thank you so much. please bring us some cigars. you can do that now. >> joining us now from miami -- >> broke my heart. >> he broke my heart. he was there when it unravelled. she has no idea what we're talking about.

>> stop. okay. joining us now from miami the chairman of the american conservative union. good morning. >> al, 20 years ago the cuban-american community in miami was all, seemed to be all against this. then there started to be some divisions over the past five, ten years, some people saying maybe we need to open up relations. it wasn't quite as straightforward. what is the reaction to the cuban-american communities in miami this morning? >> it's anger, surprise, essential betrayal, joe. look, 20 some years ago i was with president bush when he signed a law that codified foreign policy towards cuba and i still have that pen in my desk, in my office. and the reason why that law was codified and the reason why the

president signed it is because there was fear in this community that some precedent in the future would decide to unilaterally change foreign policy towards cuba and in a way that didn't make sense for america and didn't make sense for the enslaved 11 million people living in cuba and that's precisely what happened. yesterday was a good day for the bad guys in north korea and cuba, and bad day for the good guys, the united states and the 11 million people in cuba who are still suffering. look, everybody is for opening up relations with cuba. the circumstances are under what circumstances? and what will you do to make better the life of the 11 million people there. and basically the very first and foremost goal has always been to have basic humaning rights that my person born unto this earth taught have. nothing that happened yesterday -- >> al i've been debating richard haas. i turn him over to you. >> sure, absolutely.

i would be happy to talk about this. >> richard has a question for you. >> what's wrong with taking away the excuse from the castro government and others that the real problem in cuba is the american embargo and american economic and political isolation. here we do we ease the isolation, we give cuba a chance to grow. either it grows in which case it will whet an appetite for future growth or it doesn't and castro administration can't blame it on us. >> if your question was 30, 40 years ago i would say there's a lot of me reiterate to what your sight. this policy is in place in congress, a great extent from provide some leverage to the united states as it negotiates normalizing relations. cass tros will be gone soon. a new regime will take place. it will happen in less than a decade where we sit down with cuba, with that embargo or that

tra trade legislation in place. these two guys hate america beyond belief. even, you know, nikita khruschchev when he wrote his book talked about the insane hatred the castros had for the united states. they won't change their stripes. they are in their 80s. they are this way and will continue though way. all the good things you guys are hoping for are pure pipe dreams because these two twice will never allow the united states to be looked upon favorably by the cuban people no matter what you do. there will be a regime change in cuba, next year, three years, five years. these guys are leaving the earth the sooner the better and that's the appropriate. >> i'm to negotiate with the next group of folks. >> thank you so much. we always appreciate you being here. >> still ahead two "morning joe"

exclusion scl exclusive interviews. we'll speak with jimmy carter and secretary penny pritzker. also with senator tom udall, chris van hollen and mario diaz about a latter.

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history of new york, somebody who has fought vladimir putin, stood like eye to eye with him. >> looked into his soul. >> and beat that bear with your classy -- you look what's happening to new york city, i think there needs be a gentification of russia. >> we have to see if he steps out of the way by 2024. >> he's never going to leave. >> he's taking questions from the media. a four hour long press conference. >> they will ask him a lot of stuff especially about money. that's all he kbars. everything else it doesn't matter. when it comes to squeezing him about the ruble this is where you got his attention. >> his sweet spot. >> while he's been speaking the ruble has dropped even further. >> fantastic. what do we have next >> this from the "new york times" governor andrew cuomo's administration announced wednesday it will ban fracking in new york.

health concerns youpt weighs -- outway -- out weighs the economic risk. the "chicago tribune," chicago bears safety who has suffered two concussions already says this season, says playing night in the nfl is worth a shorter life. he said i would rather playing dying ten, 15 years earlier than not playing night and live a long life. he has also dealt with shoulder, aand back injuries that prevented him to finish from seven of 12 games. >> get back to him when he turns 40, 45. >> he's willing to borrow from tomorrow to play today. from the "the washington times" a school district in kansas city, missouri apologizing after

confiscating a blind student's cane replacing with it a foam pole noodle. the 8-year-old has a condition where he was born without eyes. school officials said the cane was taken away for two weeks after the 8-year-old hit another student with it on the school bus. following negative public the school officials visited the family, returned the cane and issued a formal apology. you can see in that image there what they replaced it with that pool noodle he was supposed to use it. designee hit them by mistake? >> i don't know if it was more, a you know, children behaving badly situation -- >> think about it. that's ridiculous. >> let's go the mirror and i have to read this because mika won't pay at any time proper respect. an enthusiastic "star wars" fan in california took his love for

the movie to a new height. children take a look. ♪ [ "star wars" sound track ] >> that's pretty good. >> i have an idea for what i'm going to do at my house. >> you can do that. >> i'm going to do that. >> your town wouldn't appreciate it. >> i think the neighbors would love that. . >> i'm going to do it just for neighbors. >> your dog should have little laser beams and run all over the properties. >> i like it. >> used 100 light bulbs. he's asking fans to donate money for the homeless. >> that's great. >> i like it. >> "star wars" people are the best. >> if you do it, do it well. and he did. >> coming up, what do we have?

>> first immigration executive action now to deal with cuba, don't look now but president obama is doing what he said he would do in office. we'll read from the "new york times" and the president's fulfillment of promises six years into his term. the must read opinion pages are next. for most people, earning cash back ends here, at the purchase. but there's a new card in town. introducing the citi® double cash card. it lets you earn cash back when you buy and again as you pay. that's cash back twice. it's cash back with a side of cash back. the citi double cash card. the only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase

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♪ for the most read op-ed is chairman of deutsch, inc. >> donny sheer. >> i a special call. i wasn't supposed to be on the show. i got a call from a disguised voice. >> was that yourself. >> we need you to come. >> was that in your instead that's attractive. i just got a really bad mental image. thank you. let's move on. michael sheer writes in the "new york times" for obama more audacity and fulfillment of languishing promises. president obama's decision on wednesday to radically shift united states policy towards cuba is the latest and most striking example of a president unleashed from the hesitancy that characterized much of his first six years in office. the announcement follows similar decisions by mr. obama in recent weeks to defy republicans on

immigration, climate change policy, the regulation of the internet and negotiations with iran. gone are the cautious political calculations that consign contentious issues to secondary status. mr. obama is now pushing forward aggressively on his promised agenda and ignoring his most are a dent critics? do you agree? i agree. >> a bit of an overstatement. we'll see what he does with trade. that said, yes, this was a clear president ideal initiative. he used the space you have in foreign policy to take the lead in diplomacy. i think it was a good idea. >> if you score at home and i said this before. a president who is disliked, much maligned, most important legislation of our time whether you like it or not, health care, osama bin laden, the auto industry, stock market never been higher, unemployment never

been lower, gas prices lower, opening up cuba. an impressive scorecard. >> impressive scorecard if you're a left wing liberal. i look forward. >> wait. unemployment, is that a left issue? >> i get revved up. >> you don't interrupt joe because he doesn't interrupt you. >> he doesn't interrupt anybody. >> it makes me sad. >> back to the point at hand. >> are democrats really going to champion two years from now hey, you know, we decided that we were going to open up relations and deal with the castro brothers when they are just as oppressive as they've always been and when they were back on their heels we going to celebrate barack obama continuing to talk to the iranians with the nuclear deal that they are not going to make.

and, you know, in 2009 the president ignoring the fact that they were butchering people in their own street. this president's record with iran has been absolutely shameful. >> could wehby pass donny for andrea. >> good call. >> i don't understand why liberals love the idea of  relations so much and they always have. why not wait until the castro brothers die. they are back on their heels, richard. gas prices have plummeted. venezuela can't bail them out. this "the washington post," not "the national review," not bill kristol at the weekly standard but "the washington post" themselves said today they were on the ropes and they got a bail out of it all from none other than barack obama. let's go andrea mitchell. here's nbc news chief florida affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports."

andrea, when we have -- can we get a shot of richard haas looking disgusted. when we have harold here we know he'll talk energy. he'll talk keystone and energy and we can figure out why. we're trying to figure out exactly what stock richard haas has in the new casino going up in cuba because he's all in for this, andrea. talk about what happened yesterday. it's historic and then richard we'll let you talk and i'll be quiet. >> reporter: it's clearly hiftdic. this is a president who is not giving up on his second term hardly. interestingly, john kerry, when he first talked to barack obama about becoming secretary of state this was the one issue that he raised, that he had been, obviously, deeply engaged in as a senator, he was one of the leading senators and it was with. at leahy and other former colleagues that these secret negotiations were partly conducted. the pope, pope francis first latin america pope was a huge influence on this and clearly

they thought that might give them some political cover going forward. i think profoundly also the administration decided, i'm not justifying this, joe, i'm just saying what their calculus was, that there was recently 192-1 vote. palau was the only vote in the general assembly and i know what people think of the u.n. general assembly. when you look at latin america, south america and lack of economic engagement, political criticism of the united states they were looking forward at the possibility of a likelihood of this, well continuing and of no engagement in latin america going forward. >> andrea, yesterday i don't kid myself. yesterday i said i was to the left of most americans on the current drone policy. and i know it. and i know hereunder the right of most -- most americans don't get this. the world community doesn't get

it either. the president did something that will be popular with most americans. >> reporter: the other piece of it is and i don't think popularity or polls should drive foreign policy but the other piece that there's going the summit in panama that for the first time the oas said to the united states we're not going along with excluding cuba from these meetings. cuba is invited. raul castro will be there as well as barack obama in panama. this is the first chance for a real engagement whether or not it happens, whether or not it's one of those hand shabs. i think it will happen. there will be tests. they are releasing those 53 prisoners. one of the big tests is the ladies in white, the women who every sunday go to church and march because of all the political prisoners. will they continue to be harassed. will they be locked up? i was told last night at the state department that we are seeing and this is not by some of the advocates of the policy this is by some of the people who have been working in the

latin america bureau and really concerned that now there won't be enough leverage, seeing these prisoners have been released of the 53. there are going moments. i won't tell you that this administration won't lean over backwards to see the glass being half full but john kerry will go there in january or february, if these steps take place and i do think going back to what you had said earlier, the internet is the biggest leverage here. once average cubans not the inat the intellect, the average people get cell phone and internet access. >> we agree what we want. we want a cuba more open, modern and internet active. what you're seeing is get the internet in there, more human rights. this increase the odds. this increases the odds.

you'll have a peaceful transition. not a complete one. transition in direction one. the danger of yours wait until things fall is why are you so confident that if the old regime crumbles you won't have civil war, your won't have someone, another rough kind of tough establishment take its place. we've seen that in a lot of the world. this is a transition strategy. it's a gamble. i think after 50 years it's worth take an intelligent gamble. >> up next we'll be talking to jimmy carter. he'll be talking about this too in the next hour. love to get his insights. he's been there an awful lot and been focused on this issue for a long time. >> we'll talk to one of the men who was instrumental in bringing about this historic deal with cuba, senator tom udall is our guest. we'll be back in just a moment. ♪ music

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thank you president obama for everything you've done. to me cubanos are generous, kind and talented. it pains me to see them treated so unjustly as a consequence of two governments mutually belligerent policies. five and a half decades of history show us that such bel belligerent action belies history. >> here with us democratic senator from new mexico a member of the foreign relations committee senator tom udall last month, senator udall traveled to cuba with republican senator jeff flake of arizona to discuss the u.s. embargo and visit then u.s. prisoner alan gross who we just heard from now.

so, what a big change 24 hours makes. what do you think of the latest move by the president? >> well, i think it's a bold move and i think it's a good move. we have a failed policy that hasn't been working since the 1960s and i think we should put that aside and engage cuba and support the people that are out there, the 500,000 entrepreneurs that have been created since 2007. this policy is going to support them and i like standing -- >> he's being called the appe e appeaser in chief. what positive could come out of this? >> oh, it's going to be a good positive policy when you have real engagement rather than isolation. this policy has failed. what we need to do is move forward with lessening travel restrict, allowing banks to set up accounts down there, get money in the hands of these entrepreneurs and empower the

cuban people. that's what we're talking about is they get empowered and they have better lives, they are going to care a lot more about democracy and freedom and they are going to change their society. >> mike barnacle. >> senator, you mentioned the cuban people, 11 million people on the island, 90 miles off the shore of florida. how quickly would those 11 million people feel benefits of this agreement and what kind of benefits would they be most likely to receive the quickest? >> well, i think the travel restrictions that we've already had and the upping of the dollars in terms of remittances, those have made a big difference already. you can see that in the private restaurants that are down there. people, the cuban-americans that traveled down there are helping their brothers and sisters in business. and so you're seeing dramatic changes in the private-sector. i mean it's amazing to think

eight years ago it was totally state-controlled and now you have 500,000 entrepreneurs. i'm just proud to stand on the side of the farm bureau and business community to open this up. >> what about access, those to medicines and to medical treatments that are heretofore been unavailable to many people in cuba. >> well, a lot of that is going to have to be changed in congress when we deal with the helms-burton act and other embargo lengation that's in place. there's a chance of doing that on foreign relations committee. senator corker has been very thoughtful and balanced. senator jeff flake who traveled to florida with me is lp to dropping some of these restrictions. we should craft a policy out of that foreign relations committee that open things up, that drops the embargo and moves us in the right direction. >> senator tom udall thank you so much. we'll be talking about this at the top of the hour. much more. great to have you on.

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♪ less than two months after failing to unseat mitch mcconnell, alison lundergan grimes has turned her attention to another senator. she's threatening to take rand paul to court to block him from running for president and re-election to the senate in 2016. paul's team has been working for months on developing a legal plan to defend a possible run for both offices. there is a state law prohibiting announced his re-election bid and laid the ground work of a presidential campaign. here is alison lundergan grimes in her first television interview since losing to mitch mcconnell in november. >> the law is clear. you can't be on the ballot twice for two offices. i will not be bullied. i think hopefully the people of

kentucky understand that through the course of this past year and won't hesitate to seek assistance with court. >> paul says there's precedent for simultaneous real estates in other states. congressman paul ryan and joe biden ran on two ballots. >> what's the history of this? put aside the law. when people run for two seats one more senior than the other what's the effect? the voters care. do they exact a penalty? >> i can't speak, you know, absolutely but i don't think voters care. they are voting for an office and that is an inside washington beltway issue. >> maybe it depends on the state. >> and what they are running for. if you're running for the presidency of the united states and a united states senator running for re-election i would think that would give people a little pause. what do they want to do. >> hedging your betts? >> what do they want to do. >> does not look all in. coming up how the deal with cuba impacts trade and commerce.

secretary penny pritzker joins us for an exclusive "morning joe" interview. also she's reported on ex-extensively throughout her career. soledad o'brien joins us. and some say north korea's hack started the first cyber war. we have the very latest when "morning joe" comes right back. the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen.

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here. beginning for some. welcome back to "morning joe." donny deutsch and richard haas are still with us. joining us now award-winning journalist and ceo of star fish media groups, big pregnancy news. >> we've never met before. >> let me tell you -- >> it's true. twins. >> oh, my gosh. i hurt looking at you but now you look gorgeous. >> as did i. >> we'll talk. >> they've done this before. like if you go back -- i was talking about like whose is the thomas jefferson of cuba, the thomas of jefferson of iraq, average, soledad, i remember back in '96 she was the thomas jefferson of msnbc because every time you turn it on she was sitting there, having herñ-7 coffee, there's the faux brick in the background. >> in '96 i was in san francisco

doing a technology show at the start of msnbc. >> the founding mother. >> thanks. >> she doesn't like that. it sounds old. >> when did you leave msnbc?pv@ >> i left msnbc in '99 maybe. >> you got out just in time. >> oh, stop. >> just in time >> you're doing great. >> i covered cuba for msnbc. >> in '98. >> then monica lewinsky showed up and everybody left. >> you covered cuba back when we used to cover news at msnbc. >> oh. >> all right. we'll get to cuba in just a second but we'll begin with sony which has cancelled plans to release "the interview" the movie on christmas day after a massive terror threat. the company confirmed there's no plans to release the movie on video or dvd.

the movie is nowhere to be found. the announcement came after the nation's five largest movie chains decided not to show "the interview" after alleged hackers threatened 9/11 like attacks on theaters playing film. while u.s. officials said there was no credible evidence of a terror plot reuters is reporting fbi warned theaters of showing the movie of possible cyber atexas. meanwhile senior u.s. official tells nbc news that u.s. concluded north korea is behind the sony hack. officials are gathering evidence to determine who exactly is responsible. >> donny deutsch, let's say you are handling the account of sony, is amc, regal theaters -- i'm sorry you're a capitalist pig, i'm a capitalist. there's got to be a way to make money out of standing up to terrorists and standing up to north korea.

everybody has folded. we joke about hey if you don't go shopping the terrorists have won. the terrorists have won here. >> first of all, they did the right thing. first of all, let's go back in time and think about their concept of presenting a movie, a movie that was going to show obama getting killed graphically created -- >> did they assassinoe@ >> yeah. his face burns. >> he does not. >> oh, yeah. it's graphic. >> donny, have you seen the movie >> i've read about it. this is what happens. >> you don't read it. >> i have been the inside correspondent on this story -- did you not see me on enews. >> you never read. >> okay. people who read talk about it. >> one of his assistants read it. >> no. they had no choice because basically this story would not stop. it's the right business decision. >> donny, do you know how many offensive concepts that there have been in hollywood movies i can come up with that have been

worse than killing a foreign lead per >> this is particularly offensive. >> no. >> joe, if i'm running amc theaters i can not take the chance at the end of the day it's not a matter of moral imperative it's a matter of a business judgment, it's a matter of protect consumers, protecting my business franchise. they had no choice. >> richard, the concept, so let's say that one of donny's assistants did read a newspaper article and talked to him while he was getting a massage. >> yes. not really a massage. >> stop, stop. so, let's say he does die at the end. that is offensive to all of us. at the same time do we really want north korea dictating what movies americans see and what movies americans don't see? >> short answer is no. sony got it wrong coming and going. i would not have made the movie once it was made i would not

have pulled the movie. it's a terrible precedent. and you were talking before it could encourage north korea to go after other people who are saying or writing things -- >> "new york times" -- >> sony is not the state department. >> go msnbc's founding technology, mother of all correspond. >> if sony had a pipeline into people's homes. if only sony -- wait a minute, they do. they could actually stream this movie into homes and not completely skull it. i understand threats to theaters. it would be a hot mess. >> i wonder why they don't. we don't see it now. >> financially they spent over $40 million on this movie. they estimated they would have gotten over $100 million in receipts. they are taking a major financial hit for not going ahead. >> why don't they stream it. >> are you with donny >> i'm sort fort worth donny. i'm also with richard. i one what you say about

standing up to the terrorists. >> you are in harold ford jr.'s territory. you agree with everybody. >> my question is why would sony even think of this concept. i want seems like -- what would you think of a company that north korea or france or whatever that -- >> they did. >> my point is that did the same thing on our president. we would be horrified. >> as a guy who deals in crisis control, they had no choice. they have to turn the page. they are a public company. we can all stand as everyone deologs. >> they made a bad movie and have to hide it. it causes any problems, it's a bad idea that causes havoc around the country, around the world. does anyone think this was a good idea on sony's part.s(b] >> it compounds it by not going ahead -- i disagree. bad idea to make the movie.

once you made it, once you get this pressure you don't back down. >> movies with bad ideas are made all the time. >> so what about 2006 movie, what about a 2006 movie that imagined the assassination of george w. bush, an award-winning movie. nobody was shocked about that, were they >> what movie was that. >> "the death of president," 2006. "the washington post" wrote about it yesterday. award-winning movie. imagine the assassination of george w. bush. nobody was horrified by that. in fact you don't even know about it. >> i don't. >> what does that tell you >> i don't go to movies. >> for some reason it's okay, everybody is so shocked and stunned about killing north korean leaders, of course you can imagine the assassination of george w. bush because it's art it's movies and that's okay but this is not? >> joe, it's not an issue they didn't fold because it was a bad movie or in bad taste. they fold as a public company that they would continue to lose

market capital valuation if this stayed and god forbid there was a terrorist attack they were liable own go out of business. one bomb. >> do you disagree with joe the terrorists have won, right >> it is not public companies that are owned by individual shareholders goal or job to push forward a stance that is our country's job. >> you didn't answer the question. >> again, what about a british film company that made a movie about the assassination of george w. bush. >> i'm not saying the chain of events has not, is not a terrible chain of events. i'm just saying an individual public company owned by individual shareholders it is not their job to make a political stance. i want is their job from text the shareholder value in that company. >> there's other things that any company trafficking in intellectual content will do. ban certain books that's offensive by muslims at various times. you'll end up with a world of

mass censorship because everything you do with edge and content will offend somebody. you can't start pulling things back. >> why don't they make it available where you don't have to open to it theaters. it is a bad taste? yes. could it be a terrible movie? possibly. should there have been a movie about the assassination of president bush? no. did it win awards yes. the argument about what do you do with it now grass green lighted, it moved forward. you make it available. it's a win. anyone who wants to see it can download it and see it. it makes me sound old. >> she was only 14. let's go now to the historic day in cuba. >> we'll start that. a deal. the president is hailing a new chapter in diplomatic dies with cuba five decades after the cuban missile crisis had the world on the brink of nuclear

war. the groundbreaking developments began with yesterday's prisoner swap. cuba released american aide worker alan gross imprisoned for five years along with an unnamed intelligence agent who spent the last 20 years in a cuban president. in return the u.s. released three cuban spies the last of the cuban five detained in 1990. the president's plans are sweeping. they include re-opening the u.s. embassy in havana. reviewing cuba's deis ination as state sponsor of terror and easing travel and expanding economic ties. the president hopes to expand cultural activities and looks forward to engage congress in lifting the long standing embargo. under the president's plans americans who travel to cuba will also be able to bring back $400 worth of goods including a $100 limit for alcohol and tobacco. >> donny very excited about that.

talk about cuba. you have been following this for a long time. >> as a reporter, my mother is cuban. left cuba before castro came into power. i think it's going to be better than what exists. you cannot argue that the embargo has been successful and it has not moved the needle. what it's done in a lot of ways part of the government. any problem they say see it's the united states. see here's the problem. so i think there's a potential for actually supporting the cuban people who are very close to american people both geographically and also because cuban-americans, even during the embargo, i would personally bring cash to my relatives in cuba along with every other cuban-american who was able to get into the country because people were there to support relatives. i think it's a great opportunity. certainly better than what we've seen, you got to say it's bean failure the last 50 years. >> mika, you and i bring cash to our relatives. >> you want to weaken the

monopoly of the state. >> if you look at the tourism dollars already spend in cuba, right? if you look at the tourism dollars that are spend in cuba that money doesn't make its way to the people and a lot of the sort of government's narrative is around, it's america doing this to you. i think that will be a great opportunity. it's not america doing this to you. your leadership has to change. the demographic changes are already there. >> you still have the leverage of the embargo that's there. you're not giving up all your constraints. there's incentives for cuba. >> they can't do anything on this. >> what do they do? do they step forward? thrift embargo. >> no. the embargo will stay plains. hearings about cuban performance and you'll have real debates about whether you begin to modify the embargo in exchange for different types of cuban reforms. that will be the next phase. >> they will bring the internet in and it will be amazing. >> candidates were making

headway with the critical hispanic vote and have to take an interesting stand that might set them back on that. >> with us now secretary of commerce penny pritzker. very good to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> first of all, what do you think on an economic level, trade relations level, what do you think the positive impact will be and what are some of the concerns? >> well i think let's start with fact this is the most profound policy change in my lifetime. it's very exciting. yesterday i spoke to a number of business leaders about the potential for this and they were uniformly excited by the president's move whether it affected their industry or not. as you talked about what are the specifics of this. first of all, there will be general licenses for 12 categories of travellers so you have greater engagement by families, by educators, by academics, by researchers, by government officials, by journalists which will be good. in terms of increasing openness. i don't know if you're aware,

but telecommunications is a huge opportunity here because only 5% of the cuban people have access to the internet and only 2 million of the 11.4 million cuban people have a cell phone. there's enormous opportunity in terms of connectivity, terms of engagement. i think the president's approach here of openness and engagement and recognizing that our policy has not worked to date is one that's very profound. >> richard haas. >> secretary pritzker makes the right point. you're diluting the government monopoly and control of society. the question for secretary pritzker and the administration is how do you move forward? what tests do you make in order to -- what tests do you make in order to justify going to congress with the winning argument that would say okay they've done this, this and that now we should relax the embargo. what is it we need to look for? >> first of all, let's get the rules in place, let's begin the process and begin to see the

cuban people take advantage of the opportunities that will arise. for example, today if you're an entrepreneur in cuba it's extremely difficult to start a business. let's say you want to open a restaurant. hard to access food. now it will be much easier to get access to agricultural products and easier to finance them. so this is an opportunity to begin something and get the momentum going and i think that you'll see, you know, the cuban people begin to ask for more. what's exciting also is that the cuban government is supporting the idea of greater internet access for their people. so i think this is a change that will be evolutionary. we can't look for something overnight, but something that we should very much engage in in those sectors of our economy that can make a difference in telecommunications, agriculture, the various categories of

travel, those are real opportunities. >> madam secretary, soledad o'brien is back at msnbc. she has a question for you. >> many cubans were cheering this announcement literally on the streets of dissidents say it could hurt their argument. will the business case steam roll the human rights cases and conversations. internet for everybody that's good let's not talk about human rights abuse. >> absolutely not. the president is going to the summit of the americas and said human rights and democracy will remain themes for the meeting. we're not backing off on human rights and our demographic efforts there in cuba. this is about giving cuban people more tools and more access to information as well as i said besides telecommunications agricultural products will be easier to come

by. and we'll have greater travel. not open travel but greater travel. and so i think this is an evolution and the president has done what he can within the fact that we do have an embargo and that's legislative. >> all right. >> secretary penny pritzker thank you so much. great to have you on the show. >> can i ask her a quick question. understand why for obama, for kerry, for this country it's a great move. it's counter intuitive castro would be doing this at this point. what's in it at him. an 85-year-old guy who led his life a certain way, his legacy, what's the point for him. >> the cubans have been relying on russian subsidies and then venezuela. that's not working. that will end sooner than later. you have a whole generation that's frustrated. if it were all or nothing i think they were worried they would lose control and almost like russia. so what they are shoepg by

allowing is like this to happen, evolutionary change they can keep some influence. >> mika, you excited about this? >> i think it has potential. >> are you going down to cuba? >> i would love to. >> you know how much cheaper that would be. soledad could you help you >> i don't need help you. can you go very easily. >> really? >> sort of the title of cultural expedition. >> you're one of the ten categories. >> my mom is the youngest of five siblings. she missed the burial of every one of her siblings. this is the story. you can hate castro, you can support castro, you have family in cuba that you would like to see and that kind of trumps the politics. >> it does. it helps develop -- >> let's do it. >> take us. >> my next bachelor spaert in cuba. >> the tropicana. >> you want to come back? >> come back any time.

i feel we have a fit. >> we have a thing. we have a new thing. still ahead -- it will be fun. "morning joe" exclusive former president jimmy carter on his thoughts on the shift with cuba. strong response to president obama's cuban announcement on capitol hill. congressman mario dais balart and chris van hollen who has a close next to alan gross. both make their cases on "morning joe." so,as my personal financial psychic,

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♪ the cyber attack is very serious. we're investigating and we're taking it seriously. we'll be vigilante. if we see something that we think is serious and credible, then we'll alert the public but for now my recommendation would be that people go to the movies. >> with us now for more on north

korea hacking story nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, the u.s. government said they know this was done by the north koreans. what's the next step to make sure other sectors aren't impact this way? >> reporter: i would say the best i can tell from that is that they haven't a clue. it's a difficult question for many reasons but before we get completely away from step one let's talk about that a little bit. they say they are pretty confident the attack came at the direction of north korea, though they say it did not originate inside north korea, that it came from another country, they are not saying which other country, it wasn't the united states. they also say that they can't completely rule out the possibility that there may have been some inside help here from either current or former sony employees. but nonetheless they say this was at the direction of north korea, that it was, in essence, state sponsored. now as for what is the next

step, we had expected a written public statement today from the u.s. government in some capacity officially blaming north korea all of what we've been told is on background from u.s. officials, nothing formal, nothing in writing. that was to come out today but now we were told they are rethinking whether to do that or not precisely for the reason that you just mentioned joe, it begs the question of okay what would the u.s. do in response and that isn't clear yet. economic sanctions, it would seem, you know, there are already severe economic sanctions on north korea. so there's no obvious next step here? >> how serious are the threats that are being discussed here? >> reporter: well, the cyber threat itself, of course, is quite serious because the attack on sony was not only public and all the leverage that it put on sony but it was -- it's very hard to say. i don't know of anybody that thinks there were going to be

physical attacks on theaters but the warning itself was frightening to the theaters. you may have noted that the department of homeland security said there was no credible threat. president obama said in that interview that you played a clip of he didn't think that was credible he encouraged people to go to the movies. >> nbc's pete williams. thank you very much. joining us now, one of the three lawmakers who went to cuba to pick up alan gross, democratic congressman chris van hollen of maryland. chris, i guess that must have been quite an experience. what do you make of the latest developments? >> it was an incredible experience. you know, alan's wife judy gross has been working every day for the last five years to try to free her husband from cuban prison, so it was an honor to be able to join with her on the airplane down to cuba to pick up alan and when everybody walked in the door and saw alan, he's a skinny frail guy but had a big smile on his face and could you see he finally realized that the

day had come because there had been some ups and downs along the way in terms of the effort. yesterday it was real and we're really glad to have him home. >> mike barnacle. >> congressman, one of the many benefits that mike accrued to the 11 million people living on tiled of cuba has been -- we've talked about it earlier today -- the economic benefits in terms of cash sent to families in cuba. but what i want to know from you is the medical benefits that could perhaps arrive to the cuban people, the access, more access to medicine, more access to state-of-the-art medicine that could perhaps save people's lives. it's our understanding things like that have to be approved by the congress of the united states, has to go through the senate foreign relations committee. what's the timetable for this? >> well, mike, we're in the process of trying to sort out exactly what measures can take place under the president's executive order. clearly more travel as you said.

some additional trade, at least in communications equipment to try to open up cuba. i believe that the president can >z additional medical supplies under this executive action, but clearly to lift the full embargo you would need congressional action and i think we all understand that that's not is going to happen in the very short run, but the measures the president took yesterday on their own, i think will go a long way to try to open up cuba and provide more of the kinds of things that you're talking about. >> all right. chris van hollen thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. let's bring in from miami republican representative from florida, congressman mario diaz-balart. congressman, thank you for being with us. congressman, obviously you don't think this is a good idea. why? >> a couple of things. the president and administration, obama administration said they would not do an exchange for alan gross. alan bros is an innocent man who was sentenced to president by a

totalitarian regime. the president has been saying they won't do that that would have been bad for the national security interest and then did exactly what they said would be a problem for u.s. national security interest with the now pretext that there's one more included in that exchange. that's part of the problem. it puts americans at risk every where because now everybody knows if you kidnap an american or you hold them hostage that president obama will deal with you and will give you multiple concessions. that's part of the problem. other part of the problem is this. the problem with cuba is not the united states. the problem that cuba has is regime for half a century that's a totalitarian marxist regime that violates human reits, 0 pres its people, murders its own people particularly those who are freedom seeking opposition leaders dissidents. what the president has done is given everything that the castro dictatorship has been asking for, pleading for, and lobbied for. >> we have donny deutsch here.

>> getting very, very little in response. >> congressman, to sit and just look at the last 50 years and continue as is when there's been nothing but a failure versus take acstep to open the door to the future to liberating 11 million cubans to bringing them into the 21st century, how do you argue with that with the argument that we are giving into terrorists. it is such a flawed argument. this is not isis. this is a country 90 miles away. this has been long coming. aren't you just giving us the typical republican -- >> democrats object to this? >> it's bipartisan. it's a little naive on your part to say now the cuban people have been liberated. excuse me? liberated. how can you say that the cuban people have been liberated when the cuban people are suffering from great repression, when

arrests have doubled in this last year and the response of the president of the united states is to give concessions after concession and by the way, there is no secret yl6rñ the castro brothers have been asking for what the president has just given them. what is the rest of the world, what is the united states getting and cuban people getting in response for these concessions? frankly very little. look, again, you might believe that the cuban people have been liberated. >> certainly a major step in that direction versus putting our head in the sand and clearly working with something that's not work in the last 50 years. >> i like how you're changing your tune. now you're saying they have not been liberated. i like the fact you're correcting yourself. >> why your saying that. a move towards liberating the people of cuba versus staying where we are. is that not correct? is this going the opposite direction? >> mario. >> this is not liberating the people of cuba. this is giving concessions to the castro regime that the

castro regime has been asking for. now i'm sure you thought it was a good deal to do pressure, to do business with south africa because that was liberating the people of south africa. that was an aberration and that was helping the regime in south africa. the reality is we don't do business with iran because it's a terrorist state. we shouldn't do business with a terrorist state 90 miles away just because that regime takes an american hostage requires concessions from the united states and now president obama like he's done consistently has given concessions that that regime asked for. >> if not now when? >> the sanctions are there for a couple of reasons. number one deny fund so they don't do acts of terrorism around the world. that's worked. number two it's the leverage that the united states has. so that when there is a change, when raul castro who is in his 80s and fidel who is older move along, it's the pressure, the leverage that we have to actually demand and request and

pressure for a democratic transition. remember, the sanctions go away when only three conditions are met. you tell me which one of these three conditions we should not demand. freeing all political prisoners not just a handful that president obama wants freed. number two basic freedoms. freedom of the press. labor unions. political parties. number three start the process towards election. then all the sanctions go away. it's the leverage to having a democratic transition. president has just given the castro regime getting frankly very little in response everything they ever wanted. >> congressman mario diaz-balart thank you very much. >> he looks like this guy that was on our show -- >> he's the rundown guy. >> did you ever see the rundown guy. >> you look like the rundown guy. >> there goes the neighborhood. >> great to see you as always. >> thank you very much. former president jimmy carter will join us. what will the world look like in 2015. "time" magazine says they know

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♪ with us now for the "first look" at tim magazine we have assistant editor who is here to dispel the rumor -- >> this is a good one. >> she's very popular. >> okay.

>> born in 1989. >> soledad we're talking about what's happening in 2015. a guy will go up in space for a year. why? >> why. so it's our 2015 year ahead, our third annual year ahead issue. >> i should have gone up 2013 and stayed. >> yeah. so, right. we've answer ad lot of the questions that preliminary questions about space exploration. and we're left with fundamental question which is how far can we push our bodies. so we're sengd an astronaut, nasa is sending an astronaut into space for a year which is the longest time an american will have spent in space. >> how did they zion that time period. what made them decide one year is proper vetting for this experiment. >> it's long enough to not put them at risk but also know what happens to our bodies. our bodies are built for an earth environment but we don't

know what happens when you spend that much time in zero g. your eyes change, your vascular system changes and bone density wi. >> the brother of mark kelly.wi. >> yes. >> tell me something, donny. there's an article about jeb bush, already presumptive gop nominee. hillary clinton already the presumptive democratic nominee. in a country that is yearning for change, what do you tell other candidates out there? is this a link ahead going to be bush and clinton in 2015? >> already? >> i would tell other candidate that they are very fortunate because people want to to change the channel and i would tell the candidates as far as jeb bush if i was debating him saying this is a country that seven of the last ten elections had a bush in it and this is really a country about not people coming from nothing and making themselves into something being anointed as

part of a monarchy. i think hillary is in a more dangerous position because at least jeb bush has been away from it. but you look at hillary there's such fatigue. >> isn't i amazing. we're talking about the year ahead and showing pictures 2005 people who have been part of america's ruling class. >> for 30 years. >> since 1980. >> yeah. the thing that was interesting to me in jeb's announcement is that he said he would base a decision on whether or not company do with it joy in his heart. when you think about his message he's talking about optimism which is not, you know, unusual for a presidential candidate but it sounds a lot like clinton in '92. the idea that their messages might be similar, you know, makes for sort of a not very dynamic race. >> joe, what do you think about earned gravitas. people said barack obama was fast to go to the white house in political circles. what do we say about a jeb bush,

hillary clinton, gravitas. >> they both have earned them and they are both people of great substance and they probably aren't any people out there more qualified than the republican or the democratic side. that said, there is a big heavy -- there's a wide range between having somebody that's been part of america's ruling class and the two ruling families since 1980, and first term senator. i think the demarco rubos, ted cruzs, the others had their chances dashed. >> there's a distinction between hillary and bush. bush gives people permission to almost bridge those gaps that okay it's a bush so the world will not end. but it's a new flavor. it's a moderate.

it's a new standard of radiation. new standard of immigration. giving people permission to have one foot in the past and feel safe and go forward. as a brand he has both of those elements going forward. >> if bush or clinton wins in 2016, that means a bush or clinton has been in the white house in 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, through 2008 and 2016 through 2024. this is a south american land holding family situation here. >> as someone who will have to cover it, i think you can hope for is that maybe we don't have to spend as much time on their biography and narrative and can get to the issues. >> or you can use that and their on the record experience to help determine the way thing are going to go. >> 36 of 44 years, two families in the white house, for 36 of 44

years. is our democracy really that weak? that corrosive. >> that's the american way. >> when you go out there and talk to people hillary clinton has an edge, if it is the two of them because it's groundbreaking. >> i disagree completely. >> there's such fatigue on hillary. she comes on the screen and you kind of just -- >> donny that's us. >> that sounds like manhattan cocktail talk. >> go watch her at an event you'll see little girls screaming like the beatles came out. seriously. screaming and melting down. >> i do think and i always talk about conservatives, conservatives mock new york city cocktail party talk. i really do think this anti-hillary thing, you know, we're all tired of it sob everybody is tired of them. i don't think that place in

middle america. >> the book tour would suggest otherwise. >> jimmy carter. >> thank you so much. new issue of "time" is out now. up next how will president obama's historic shift on cuba affect the humanitarian situation in that country. former president jimmy carter is our exclusive guest straight ahead. stay with us.

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international rescue committee and former british foreign secretary david millibrand. but first joining us by phone from plains, georgia, former president jimmy carter who tried during his own administration to normalize ties with cuba and made trips to havana after his presidency and, obviously, mr. president, a great honor to have

you here with us. this something that you've worked on for so long, and you've been so focused on improving the human condition in this hemisphere and the other. i'm wondering, what do you believe the impact will be on the lives of the cuban people because of this change? >> well there's no doubt that at best the beneficials of this primarily will be the cuban people. there's about 11 or 12 million of them and they have been living under not only a dictatorship that deprived them of basic reits but living under united states imbosed embargo sanctions that deprived them of twrad their nearest neighbor. these are the kinds of things that have long been overdue and i'm very proud and grateful that president obama has shown such good wisdom and also i'd say political courage in taking this long overdue step. i know castro brothers quite well and i think this will not

benefit them, it will benefit the people of cuba. that's the main thing i see. i think it will also be good for americans. i arranged several trips for georgia farm groups to go down to cuba and sell some of our surplus corn and also a lot of our poultry to the cuban people. so this will be good for both countries. >> mr. president, what will you tell members of congress who now can take this country a step closer to normalize relations with the cuban people? why should they do that? >> well, as you know, i established an intersection in havana and also washington when i was in office and the last time i was in cuba there were about 300 diplomats, american diplomats in havana working for diplomatic purposes. with some constraints, of course, short of a full ambassadorship. so, i think that as far as the openness of communication would

be much better, there will being, obviously, more trade commerce, visitation back and forth to promote democracy and congress has nothing to say about which country is recognized diplomatically. that'se'oz privilege or opportunity or maybe some kind of burden that's given to the president alone. congress has nothing to say about that. the senate has to approve the nominee to be a full ambassador down there. but i think the main thing is to go ahead and lift the embargo and sanctions and that's something that congress has to do since the helms-burton act was passed under president clinton. >> mr. president, you said that this took wisdom and courage and there are those who call him the appeaser in chief and that this is just another bad foreign policy move and that we will not be able to move cuba in the right direction given that we're sort of caving to them, that we're giving them what they want and not asking for enough in return. to that you say what? >> well, for a long time i've

said the best way to bring democracy and freedom to cuba, i'm sure in small incremental steps is to have full opportunity for americans to go there to trade, to invest, to let the cuban people see clearly that we're not the villains in their economic plight, it's primarily brought about by the ill-advised policies of communism but i think this will open up the cuban people to the realization that they need to move towards more freedom and democracy. raul castro compared to fidel has done a good bit to bring about openness and freedom in economic terms not doing very much of course in political terms. i think this will come in eactivitiablely. >> mike barnacle. >> mr. president, what's your sense of after the castro brothers in cuba. what government apparatus is set up there now in serms of a succession line.

what happens when they are removed from the scene. >> raul castro has already said he'll step down but i think in several years, after this. but he's already announced seve after this. the castros will be very careful in orchestrating their succes r successors who will be much younger but also committed to the same communist principles. that will change. with the younger generation. more openness to the outside world. i think part of the agreement is they'll have more access to the internet. i don't have any doubt that the catholic church, pope francis, has a lot to do with this. and that's a very powerful factor in cuba. when i've been there, i've seen not only very strong catholic church imprint on the population, but also a lot of protestant churches. so they've had basic freedom of religion. i think these kind of moral values and ethical values and

commitments to the universal declaration of human rights will be much more likely to be implemented now than before. >> mr. president, been reading articles about you, talking about all you've done this year. one article's headline, jimmy carter still driven. called to action. laid down a marker. talking about what you called the number one unaddressed problem in this world and that is the rights of woman. what are your plans for 2015? >> i've spoken to a lot of groups at harvard, yale, princeton, emory university, also about 10,000 delegates to the american academy of religion. these are people that teach in religious schools. i met with about 15,000 people who belongs to the islamic society of north america. and they brought in islamists

from around the world to get them to sign a document that i have to draft guaranteeing when they go back to their different various countries, they'll insist on equality of opportunity under islamic law for women compared to men. so we'll continue with that. we'll have another conference on this early next year and bring in more religious leaders. i think, as you said, the number one human rights violation on earth. >> mr. president, jimmy carter, really great to have you with us. thank you very much. we'll be right back. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.

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on thinto an entire tribe's studentseducation. to turn their education but only five percent of indians on the reservation can afford to go to college.

okay, we're back with david miliband, the president and ceo of the international rescue committee. good to have you here. >> david, tell us about your reaction to the president's decision yesterday regarding cuba. >> the international rescue committee has resettled 62,000 cubans into america over the last 50 years. people who have been freeing oppression in cuba. but my reflection is a slightly different one. people seem to be saying because you've got diplomatic relations with a country, you've got to roll back on your criticism of the country. my experience is actually different. in a way, not having diplomatic relations can actually get in the way of really hard, tough talking. so i can see this actually

opening up a dialogue about the human rights and other situation inside the country and i'm much more frank. >> let's move from cuba to syria. obviously one of your chief concerns. a continuing humanitarian nightmare. that has been eclipsed a bit in the news by what's been happening with isis. what the humanitarian situation on the ground? >> 2014 has been the year when new wars started in iraq and south sudan and the old wars carried on. not just syria but somalia, congo, et cetera. in syria, there is a nightmare of biblical hu"ñproportions. half the population now dependent on aid from outside. 4 million people driven into neighboring countries. the u.n. today launching the biggest aid -- >> 4 million refugees. >> the u.n. saying it will be 4.2 in 2015. into societies that are unstable or fragile rather than unstable is a better way of putting it.

inside the country, people in besieged communities, the people we're helping in the neighboring countries have not just been driven from one town and come into jordan and lebanon four, five, six times, they've been bombed out of their houses. and so i'm very concerned that syria is almost slipping off the agenda as the debate comes on to iraq and the humanitarian situation, we provide health, education, water, sanitation. we can't afford to get that lost. because more aid is getting through. but the needs are greater than they were this time last year. >> how worried are you that jordan can survive, having taken in so many millions of refugees you just spoke about? >> let's get a sense of the perspective. it's huge. 6 million people live in jordan. i mean, that's like the whole of the population of germany arriving in america in the space of three years. germany's a population of $90

million people. it's a huge influx of people. it's one-sixth of the u.s. population. jordan has taken on one-sixth of its own population size. i have great faith that that country is more stable than people give it credit for. for 30 years, people have been going on tv saying i'm worried about jordan. they've shown extraordinarily resilience. >> the king said it himself -- >> the issue is, who's going to support them. are they on a drip feed or are we giving them the kind of support, help rebuild key countries in western europe. that's the challenge. >> good luck with everything you're doing, thank you for being here. the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. bobby francis behind the scenes, written letters to both

president obama. and the vatican brokered a secret meeting. >>8-#bd come on, frank. is there nothing this lunatic won't heal with compassion? i'm sorry, that does it. i'm calling for a trade embargo on vatican city. americans will have to live without their escort, harlequin security pantaloons. it's going to be hard. obama's not going to get away with this just because i'm going off the air. the minute my show ends, i'm on a plane to havana to personally investigate this travesty. i will go to every pristine beach. i will scout every rum distillery. i tonight care how many 1957 chevys i have to buy for $200. until the job is done, i will not rest except in a hammock. >> good morning, everybody. it is thursday, december 18th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc

contributor mike barnacle. the president on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. and the host of "way too early," thomas roberts. sony has canceled plans to release "the interview" on christmas day. the company also confirmed there are no plans to release the movie on video, on demand or on dvd. the controversial movie nowhere to be found on sony pictures website. the announcement just hours after the nation's five largest movie chains decided not to show "the interview" after alleged hackers threatened 9/11 attacks on theaters playing the film. while officials say there's no credible evidence of a terror throat, rueters is reporting the fbi warned theaters showing the movie of possible terrorist attacks. the u.s. has concluded that north korea is behind the sony hack. officials are now gathering evidence to determine who

exactly is responsible. >> mike barnacle, the terrorists have won. >> it's very rare you can say that with a straight face. in this case, the taerrorists have won. >> this is just a movie. what if they dislike an editorial in "the new york times" or "wall street journal"? what if they dislike a book published in the united states? >> we've really laid a great pre precedent, haven't we? the company will completely capitulate, change their entire business plan for the entire year. this is beyond pathetic. >> richard haass, what's the concern here. first of all, sony got it wrong coming and going. there's something to be questioned about making a movie that's quote/unquote a comedy about assassinating a foreign leader. by capitulating, it's a terrible

precedent. they should find ways getting it out there. >> what if "the new york times" wrote an op-ed tomorrow they don't like and then suddenly they'll hack into the "new york times" and why can't we stop this? >> is there anything companies are not doing. north korea is a very concentrated country in terms of political authority. can we not go after the pillars of their political authority? thirdly, what i think this does, it's a bigger question, it raises the question of why we continue to tolerate an outlaw pariah regime. we negotiated ten years fecklessly to get north korea to give up its nuclear weapons. there's only one country that has real influence over north korea and it's named china.bgsñ two-thirds of north korea's

trade transit china. if the united states has serious problems with north korea, the mailbox is beijing. we should put this at the top of our -- >> beijing's always, always let them do what they want to. >> the question, they're bad actors already, and so what keeps them from doing that to "the new york times" or others? i would go with the assumption they've already been able to hack these places. what they did to sony, they didn't do overnight. they probably knew this film was coming out well in advance. they lined up this material to be able to -- >> think about it, think about it -- >> -- who else they've already done this to already and have it in their pocket. >> think about it. not just financial institutions. it can be our water supplies. it can be our nuclear power plants. it can be, you know, the banks we go to. it can go to everything. somebody could have their credit record destroyed overnight. >> there's nothing, nothing justifies that. but is it this movie that

triggered? >> the united states has not made the reunification of korea a foreign policy priority. we have lived with it and we -- >> -- done to stand up to the north koreans? >> they put economic pressure on them. they're not mush wild about them. this is a very unhappy relationship. >> what do they deal with them? why do they allow them -- >> because they're nervous. that if north korea were to unravel, you would have a unified korean peninsula uncontrolled. what is it we can do to get them to rethink their policy? what ways can we put pressure on north korea to say your future rzeát other thing, mitt romney is urging sony to releaseg

the uproar over "the interview" has killed plans for a steve carell thriller that was to be set in north korea. a texas theater that planned to show "the interview" says it will show "team america world police" instead. one of the main characters in that movie -- >> did you ever see "team america?" >> i did. i'm so lonely. the theme song is "america" bleep. the concept was, it was by the geniuses who brought you "south park," the concept was we did go around and we saved the world from terrorist attacks but we blew up the eiffel tower, you know, we blew up big ben. we basically destroyed the world to save it. but they have a string -- would are the celebrities who are actually guards in the north

korean gulags? >> they had that song of kim jong-il saying how lonely he was. apparently he was not a big fan. >> boy, he pays a lot of attention to -- >> his son got his sense of humor. or lack thereof. >> what else do you do there? >> celebrities are quick to criticize pulling the movie and the theaters. judd apa tow, jimmy kimmel, among those tweeting saying things, showing negative relaxes. >> all right. >> yeah, it's big. >> so while we're on the topic of the final vestiges of a bygone cold war era, why don't we talk about north korea? >> the other big story making history and headlines around the world. president obama hailing a new chapter in diplomatic ties with cuba. five decades after the cuban missile crisis had the world on the brink of nuclear war.

the groundbreaking developments began with yesterday's prisoner swap. alan gross, along with an unnamed intelligence agent who spent last 20 years in a cuban prison. in return, the u.s. released three cuban spies. the last of theñah five detained in 1998. it is a move that president obama says puts an end to an outdated approach that he argues has failed to advance u.s. interests. >> neither the american, nor cuban people are well served by a rigid policy that's rooted in events that took place before most of us were born. i've instructed secretary kerry to immediately begin discussions with cuba, to re-establish diplomatic relations that have been severed since 1961. where we disagree, we will raise those differences directly. as we will continue to do on issues related to democracy and

human rights in cuba. but i believe that we can do more to support the cuban people and promote our values through engagement. after all, these 50 years have shown that isolation has not worked. it's time for a new approach. >> the president's plans are sweeping. they include reopening the u.s. epbase in havana, reviewing cuba's designation as a state sponsor of terror and easing travel restrictions for family visits, official business, as well as educational and some cultural activities. the president plans to expand economic ties and says he looks forward to engaging congress in a, quote, open and honest debate about lifting the long-standing embar embargo. another note, under the president's plan, americans who travel to cuba will be allowed to bring back $400 worth of goods, including a $100 limit for alcohol and tobacco. >> that is of course the richard haass plan. >> "the washington post," tough on this, as well as many people

on both side, of the aisle. marco rubio saying he may be the worst negotiator of all time. >> oh, okay. >> and he just may be. this is what "the washington post" says. in recent months, the outlook for the castro regime in cuba was growing steadily darker. the modest reforms adopted in recent years to approve its abysmal economic conditions. worse, the accelerating economic collapse of venezuela meant that the huge subsidies that had kept castros afloat for the last decade were in peril. such as human rights and assembly. on wednesday, the castros suddenly obtained a comprehensive bailout from the obama administration. "washington post" editorial staff right? >> no. what you had was the cubans doing some half-steps and the united states in return

agreeing -- >> what did they say that was wrong? >> that they suggest we have no more leverage over cuba. >> should have got more out of it? >> that's what the embargo's there for. >> but they were back on their heels. oil prices were collapsing. venezuela's economy is collapsing. the cuban regime was against the ropes. by giving them everything they asked for, richard. >> not everything. they released 53 political prisoners. they agreed to greater tell comma telecommunications access. >> are those 53 prisoners relearelee relea released? >> what we want is something democratic and market oriented. it's not going to happen in one step. >> like iraq? >> fundamentally different. >> what's in cuba that makes you think democracy's next? >> actuary tables. >> part of it, you've got a generation leaving. part of it, you've got the end of these subsidizes.

80,000 barrel, a day. you're basically saying why are we positive that engagement, that easing restrictions will work. i say what evidence do you have that 50 years of pressure has worked. we want a transition to a mar t market-oriented democracy. >> what his next after the castros? who's the thomas jefferson of cuba? did he go to harvard with the thomas jefferson of iraq and afghanistan? >> again, you're not going to get it underneath. i think you're underestimating what i call the trojan horse idea. more likely to make cuba more

open. >> are you with richard here? >> with the exception of the last line, the editorial you just read, which refers to yesterday, wednesday, and the reaction that occurred yesterday, the rest of that editorial could have been written 10, 20, 30 years ago. there's a tremendous yearning for democracy in cuba. today, as we speak about this, as both sides get into a debate about this, we are actively engaged on a narrow basis with iran in the middle east. we are actively engaged with china. what is wrong with this? this is more than 50 years that w,isut been looking at this the ridiculous proposition -- >> how's that working for you? >> that's the point. we deal with the iranians. >> it's only 90 miles away when you think about where cuba is. 90 miles off the shore of florida. we have a large cuban population that lives here. generationally, there's a huge divide about how certain people -- what your age range

is. do millennials know why we have a trade embargo with cuba? >> let me go to havana because we're going to lose the window with nbc news mark potter. what reaction are you seeing there? >> well, it's interesting, mika, you guys are talking about the controversy here. there is no controversy. people are thrilled by the announcements that came out off9 this is wonderful news to the people here. i can tell you from covering here, this is the country for years, cubans have long wanted better relations with the united states. they believe that would be the way to end the trade embargo. to help improve their lives politically. they've wanted this for a long time. they are absolutely thrilled with the possibility of this occurring. many people are also worried.

they're concerned that maybe this won't happen, given the up and down nature of u.s./cuban relations. but many people are quite positive, saying this may be the very best chance they've had in decades to seeo(2.z traumatic c, economic change, all kinds of change, that could lead to political change. to a point made earlier, times are tough here. but i remember being here during the special period, as they called it, after the collapse of the soviet union, and it was dismal. a tough, tough time. so comparing now to then is instructive. it's also important to know a lot of young people here who talk to us are disaffected. they want change. they are on the internet. they have access to computers. they're voting with their feet times by going to other countries. they're the ones who would like to see this change and for whom the change may be aimed, mika. >> coming up on "morning joe," is playing football worth dying

10 to 15 years earlier for? >> no. >> one current player says yes. that story is ahead. and later, actor and comedian mario cantone will be here for what should be an interesting half hour. we'll get his take on the year's big stories. first, big karens with the fore >> a big storm that will be interfering with a lot of people's travel plans. let me start this morning with a little bit of light snow in maine. that will be ending shortly. we have snow on the ground in kansas city. first inch of snow for you so far this winter season. here is today first off. not a lot of travel trouble out there. now, let's get to the good stuff. this storm system will be one of the stronger storms we've seen. it's still warm enough a lot of the storm will be rain. this is christmas eve. this storm is going to crank up. it's going to be a big huge wind storm that's going to move from

pretty much the ohio valley up into southern portions of quebec. the warm side of the storm is in here. the eastern seaboard on wednesday. this is christmas eve. very rainy. heavy rain. gusty winds moving through. that means significant airport delays. i think i'm confidence in this forecast that if i had an option of traveling on tuesday instead of wednesday, i would try to go ahead and book that now. because wednesday could be some significant delays. by the time we get to actual christmas day itself, that storm is still sitting there spinning. it's still a big storm. a lot of lake effect storms. if you're driving, you'll probably have to deal with winter driving conditions. for our friends in the intermountain west, especially colorado, wyoming and utah, you could get yourself a christmas day snowstorm too. this week's pretty calm. next week looks like we're going to have some interesting weather to have to deal with as we head into our holiday week. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. >> this from t"the new york time times". announcing wednesday it will ban fr fracking in new york. even in a state that is rich with natural gas resources. the governor said he would defer to his environmental health commissioner on the matter who both said the process came with unacceptable risks that haven't been sufficiently studied. >> chicago bears safety chris

don conte says playing in the nfl is worth living a shorter life. told the chicago radio station i'd rather have the experience of playing. and who knows, die, 10, 15 years earlier, than not be able to play in the nfl and live with a long life. conti has dealt with injuries this season that have prevented him from finishing 7 of the 12 games he's played in. >> get back to him when he's 45. see if he feels that way. >> he's willing to borrow from tomorrow for today apparently. we get this from "the washington time times". apologizing after confiscating a blind student's cane. replacing it with a foam pool noodle. the 8-year-old has a condition where he was born without eyes. school official also said the cane was taken away for two weeks after the 8-year-old hit another student with it on the school bus.

following negative publicity, school employees visited the family, they returned the cane and they issued a formal apology. i think you can see in that image there what they replaced it with. that pool noodle he was supposed to use. >> by mistake, obviously, right? >> i don't know if it was more children behaving badly situation. >> think about it how does he -- that's ridiculous. >> let's go to "the mirror." mika will not pay this the proper respect. one of the enthusiastic star wars fan in california took the love for the movie to new heights. christmas display set to the iconic soundtrack. children, take a look. >> oh, my god. awful.

>> that's pretty good. >> i have an idea for what i'm going to do with my house. >> you can't do that. >> i'm going to do that. >> don't you love the electric guitar? i'm going to do it just for the neighbors. >> your dogs should have little laser beams all over them and they should run all over the property. >> now he's asking fab fans to donate money for the homeless. >> oh, that's great. >> star wars people are the best people. >> if you're going to do that, do it well. up next, madonna is the latest artist to have her album leak online before its intended release. it's safe to say she's not happy about it. have you heard it? >> i haven't heard it. a lot of times when you hear about these leaks -- >> her response next as comedia.

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how can a person have really hot s-e-x with someone they

don't even like? >> you're spelling sex in a place with a go-go boy on the bar? >> i'm serious. >> why? >> oh, my god, charlotte, you? >> don't know what happened. he's my divorce lawyer and i don't even like him. >> so, some of the best sex i've had is with people i can't stand. >> he was showing me his bachelor apartment and i think it was all the leather and music. >> leather, i get it. >> suddenly, out of nowhere, we were kissing. >> oh, my god. this is so exciting. how was it? >> unbelievable. >> cosmos for everyone. >> that was mario cantone as anthony -- >> i love that you said mario. >> sorry, how do i say it? >> are you a new yorker? >> i'm polish. everything is pronounced -- overpronounced. >> i think new yorkers say mario but most people say mario. >> what do you like? >> i like mario because i'm from boston.

>> well, i just -- >> well, mario cuomo says mario ñyorker. >> okay, it's really nice to have you on. we have news to break. >> it's nice to see myself 12 years ago. it's brutal. >> you're doing well. >> it's awful to see those 12 years ago. >> oh, you look great. you've slimmed down a little bit. >> donny said that too. so was i a fat bastard before? >> no, you just have slimmed down. >> look at you, you're like -- you could have played peter pan. >> oh, yeah, totally. we're trying to get her on. allison williams. >> she's a lovely girl. >> you have a new lover. >> nicole wallace. >> for how long? >> she's one of my favorite women on the planet. >> i adore here. >> on "the view." >> she's gorgeous. >> force fed me to all of youwñ here on "morning joe." >> she did. she basically pinned me in the back seat of the car and said you have to have mario on.

she's like, you have to. and then she gave me your number. >> really? >> i'm stuck on nicole pinning you in the back of her car. >> don't say that to him. >> i wasn't going to -- >> don't say it to donny deutsch. keep your coat on your lap. >> i'm only allowed to lower the denome ninate ur of thinor of t. you take it to the gutter. >> every man. some better than others. >> no comment. >> it's true. >> wow. >> i just got a visual image. now i can never look at donny again. i can look at you though. there's a leak story making headlines that has nothing to do with sony pictures. egend madonna ures. responding to the leak of 13 previously unheard songs. in an instagram, madonna likened the theft to, quote, artistic rape. now she's denying the collection is the final version of what we -- what would be her 13th studio album due out in 2015.

>> this is just going to keep happening. this is the age we're living in. there's the sony hack. people steal through computers now. there are brilliant hackers that know how to do it. it's just going to keep happening. >> is it artistic rape? >> it's artistic theft. i don't know if it's artistic rape. >> i think mario's point is it's the way of the world right now. every ceo has to understand that. it's going to affect everybody. this is technological advancement. there's an underbelly. >> i'm italian. i don't write anything down. if i'm angry with someone, i will call them and -- >> you buy something in cash. >> no, i use my credit card. but i'll call them and i'll be like -- i will never yell at someone in all caps in a text. there are no naked pictures of me. you don't -- if you don't want it stolen, especially now that, you know, with -- it's just

happening over and over. >> i'll just say one thing. don't put it out there. >> don't put it out there. >> this is her music. >> i know, but it's the same thing. that's what stinks. >> it's her work. somebody has their credit card number stolen, i don't feel any worse for her than i do for anybody. i know this sounds like a copout. >> i think the feeling of it is -- >> but that part sucks because it's her work and people are taking it and not paying for it. >> artists when they're working on a piece, they want to release it when they feel it's ready. >> obviously. >> if it's in process or, you know, i think that is a horrible feeling. about as gutting as it gets. okay. let's move on here. james franco and seth rogen are beefing up their security detail amid threats from the hackers responsible for the sony pictures data breach. >> i would. >> an insider told the "new york daily news," quote, they're usually not the type of guy to have security. james is the type of guy who takes the subway all the time. the source joked the bodyguard

is double franco size. scary stuff. >> this whole leak thing was so interesting before we knew it was north korea and it was a threat. because you -- it really mqlf brought, like, middle america into seeing what goes on with negotiations for movies and what producers say. people have said stuff about me i'm sure during negotiations. you say stuff about producers. again, don't write it down. and years ago, agents got on the phone and studio heads got on the phone. >> the only industry you would not see jamie diamond's e-mails or the ceo of procter & gamble. it is for some reason the vernacular. these are major people. putting this stuff down in writing. >> amid these deals, there's personal relations being revealed as well. >> it's a role reversal. in the film, those guys play assassins. now they're the ones with the protection. >> exactly. >> once you knew it was north

korea and these threats have caused sony to pull this movie, it's unprecedented. i can't believe this is happening. i also think show the movie. though it. it makes me angry that we give in. >> that's what we were talking about earlier. >> at the same time, would i go see the movie in the middle of new york city? that would be ah9ñ little scar. i'd go to the suburbs. >> i wouldn't go. >> i'd go. >> i'd go to mobley, missouri to see it. >> a toronto man who made headlines by offering a free round the world ticket to a woman with the same name as his ex-girlfriend had found what he's looking for. the 28-year-old man named jordan and his then girlfriend elizabeth gallagher booked round the world plane tickets in may. how cute, right? >> no. >> but then they broke up. >> why not cute? >> go ahead, keep going. >> they broke up and they posted -- they put a posting up on social media and received thousands of e-mails include in

notes from 18-year-olds elizabeth gallagher. he's chosen 23-year-old elizabeth gallagher from nova scotia and they're going as friends around the world. >> somebody should option this. and they fall in love. a great movie starring kate hudson. >> they'll been talking on the phone for hours. >> and that's it, they haven't met? >> they haven't met. >> it's like really? >> he gives women round trip tickets. first date gift. >> it's like marrying someone in prison. this is ridiculous. you do not know this person. >> can always get off the -- >> you have to know someone when you travel with them. when you travel with them, that's the key. traveling together is very important. >> it is, it's intimate. >> even with a friend. not just a lover or a husband or a wife. >> i'm told this girl has a boyfriend. this is complicated. >> she has a boyfriend, too? that little traveling tramp.

>> okay, next story. the highest court in the europe union has ruled that obesity has constitute avly disability. the european court of justice decided on the case of a male baby-sitter in denmark who claims he was fired from being too fat. the court ruled if obesity could hinder full participation at work it could count as as didability. the ruling is ed binding across many entire european union. i kind of disagree with this. >> at one point, it definitely -- >> i know people are predisposed to conditions. but if somebody causes their own disability, should they then be rewarded whatever benefits can come from that? >> i think you'll see in lawsuits that i am sure are going to happen against the fast food industry and other foodmakers that our entire american diet has been poisoned. >> by the way -- >> so a lot of people are fat --

>> i would love to eat a big mac. i don't because i will get fat. i have a choice. >> gay men do not like to go up a size. as soon as we feel the tightness, we're on the diet, you know, we're ridiculous. >> you think there's -- >> you are so gay. >> another piece of news. >> i've known him for years. >> he is dating nicole. >> it's all switching. but i think -- look, i think there's a way of keeping your weight in check. i mean, you know, is it glandular sometimes? i don't know. >> i'm sure there are cases, yes. >> but i think you've got -- you know, i just think you've got to work out. >> i think we're not looking at the addictive nature of the large amounts of salt and fat. >> as an overweight person eating a cheeseburger deluxe and i'm pissed off because i'm eating a salad, i would love to have that salad. a lot of it is individuals making choices. >> it's a great conversation. i hear you do great impersonations. >> i do some.

>> can i have some by the end? >> little bruce springsteen maybe. liza. >> i need a band to do springsteen and that one you have to pay for. >> you said liza. >> that is a stereotype. >> no, i just know that mario does -- >> well, yeah. >> judy garland? >> i love liza. i wore my hair just like your, mika. i love your name, mika. it's so funny. mika, mike-a. you know, i didn't do her until i sat with her. and then i went, oh, that's what she is. she's a, you know, she's one of the great entertainers of all time. she hates me because i do her. >> does she? >> she doesn't like me because i do her mother. i put her mother on a pedestal like every -- >> have you seen her in "arrested"? >> in what? "arrested development." yeah.

i was like, she got arrested, what happened? i told her to keep the marijuana in her sock! no, i'm kidding. she doesn't do marijuana. >> i think she's talking aboutp the dunkin' donuts kronut. oh, th >> it's only 300 calories. >> they really are doing this? >> owe, it's going to stay on the menu. o oh, it's making money. it's like closing a broadway show that's making money. it's a freakin' kronut. >> next, spotify.

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we're all dancing here. "happy" is spotify's top song of the year. joining us is rachel cook. >> hi, great to be here. he scientifically kind of tapped into a chemical thing that happens. i think it's scientific. i do. >> it's a song that people haven't really thought about it for a little while because it hasn't been around much but from january to march that song was absolutely inescapable. >> it's a great song. i never got bored of it. ever. >> the second one is my favorite. my daughter listens to this all the time. it puts her in the best move. this is "rather be" by clean bandit. >> it came from the uk. it it was a song that was bubbling up over the summer in

the uk. we wondered, is that going to cross the pond? sure enough, it did. it was one of our biggest songs of the summer. >> chances are you've heard this song. turn it up for a little bit. >> i'm so old, i cannot hear it. >> you like it, mario, take a listen. >> oh, great, thank you, that was really good. >> i couldn't hear it. >> i don't know who anybody is. >> we have to play it for a second. it's a really good song. >> there it is. ♪ but as long as you are with me ♪ ♪ >> this is how old i am. >> ♪ there's no place i'd rather be ♪ >> so i run to this song. it's so good. it's a happy song. like "happy." >> yeah, absolutely. we find a lot of songses do really we really well on spotify when they have a strong dance element. >> as a white guy, the key to dancing, you don't move your feet.

if you don't move your feet. >> put some music on. >> now you look like a boxer. >> just don't move your feet. >> come on, donny. >> donny, don't sit on your straw. >> here we go, donny, you're on. >> this is good. >> really, donny? that's hilarious. >> no, no. >> 8 out of 10. >> there you go. >> you're way too nice. >> i got best dancer in high school. i did. i got best dancer in high school. >> you want to give it a try? >> i'm not doing it. >> what other list do we have? >> the top mail artist. ed sheeren who has been unbelievable. >> phenomenal. >> he's perfect for christmas because he looks like an elf. he's adorable. >> he had an amazing year. his music streamed about 860 million times.

>> my god. how old is he? >> he's 23. isn't technically a kid but he's still very young. >> to write like that too. >> you feel the soul in his music. >> i think what people like about him, he keeps it simple. gets on the stage in front of an arena and it's just him and his guitar. he doesn't have a backup band. he has no one to defer to. >> that's the proof in the pudding when it's real and they're singing. who does that? it's not flashy. >> sam stein. >> sam smith. >> sam smith. >> oops. >> sam stein's another show. >> he sings. >> stein, smith, all those -- >> the singers are a rarity. they really are. there's not too many great singers anymore. >> you know what's interesting is eminem at number two. it's not someone i would have thought would be number two. >> yeah, it's always interesting to me when an artist has a really amazing year on spotify and they didn't release a new album. yeah, here's a guy who's been making music for almost 20 years

now. he's now in his 40s, just. i think he's 41. and he is able to find fresh viewers on spotify. because listeners are pretty young. even though they didn't necessarily grow up with eminem, they love him. >> i think he has staying power. i'm monot a rap person but i ge him. his tone. nobody sounds like him. it's real. you seen -- i won't name, but some rappers that are, you know, upper middle class and they speak in an interview and then you know they get -- they rap and they're like -- it's not who they are. and he is real. >> he's the real deal. >> let's get to the female artist. katy perry is number one. en believable. dethroning rihanna. >> rihanna was most streamed female for the last two years. but katy came along this year with "dark horse." >> where's taylor? >> taylor is not on our list.

taylor pulled her music from spotify. >> she pulled all her music? >> which is disappointing. our listeners love taylor. >> she'd be on that list. >> she'll be on there. >> she pulled out, mika. she's done. she's like, i'm oughtta here. you're not spotifying me. >> oh, my god. shannon cook, thank you. we're sorry for tony and mario. >> oh, don't be sorry. >> thank you so much. up next, sharon osbourne usually isn't at a loss of words but it happened this week. and on "the talk" by the way, on the show she's on. you won't believe the reason why. discohi! card. so it says here i can redeem my cashback bonus for cash. do i need to have a certain amount? nope, now you can redeem your cashback for any amount, any time.

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oh, come on. >> my tooth's falling out. >> oh, no problem. it's one of those. >> it's an implant. >> let's see how it is. >> no, don't show it. don't show it. >> that is brutal. that's like a scene from "marathon man," that's horrible. oh, my gosh. they say if you have dreams, and

your teeth are falling out you're going to die? i'm probably going to die tomorrow. >> what does that mean? i once had a dream where my teeth were falling out. >> maybe good luck. >> it has to do with health. if you're a hypochondriac. >> i had a crown that was falling out and my prompting broke during a woman's conference i was doing. i said, i'm so not relaxed right now. it was a joke and they all laughed. >> it's just television. got to go with it. >> what's the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you? >> the most embarrassing. >> dig deep. >> the most embarrassing. i was in junior high school. i had an ice cream stick. i had braces at time. some kid threw a dodge ball at me. the ice cream struck got stuck in the braces. i walked around for a day with -- with the acne and the afro.

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today with diana cole, cosmo. you go to the cosmo facebook page for that. it will be fun. >> mario. >> i learned that i like all of you. shocking, i learned i can get up at 6:30. >> it's early. >> i don't know how you people do it. >> it's awful. >> i've learned that he's very handsome. >> my new wedding planner. >> i couldn't plan a wedding. i did not get that gay gene. >> you have to. >> donny. >> i found out the difference between jews and gentiles. we wear our pants a little lower. pants a little higher. >> oh, donny, that doesn't work. >> these guys, pants are too high. >> put on some socks, this is not miami vice.

>> fearful about the country and the -- remember things like seven years ago last night, battle of the bulge. >> all right. >> donny, you're going to watch band of brothers. >> it's if way too early, it's "morning joe." "the rundown" is next. >> good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart. u.s. intelligence and law enforcement officials say they have concluded that north korea is behind the sony hack attack in apparent retaliation for the studios an plan to release a comedy. the interview that hack exposed documents and personal e-mails and could be the most damaging cyber attack ever on an american business. the white house national security council release add statement saying, quote, the u.s. government is working tirelessly to bring the perpetrates of this attack to justice and we are considering a range of options in w