hello, everyone, i'm joy reid, and we begin with breaking news. defense officials confirm the u.s. air strike has killed three mid to high-level isis leaders in iraq over the last six weeks. nbc pentagon correspondent joining me now. what do we know? >> well, joy, u.s. military officials and defense officials here in the pentagon are describing this at least as a temporary victory. based on intelligence, these three mid to high-level isis leaders were, in fact, targeted by u.s. air strikes. from the middle of november until the first week of december. they've been identified as, one, mutas, the deputy to the bakar al baghdadi, he is the top leader of isis, important figure

in the infrastructure. the top military commander for isis, those are the two top leaders that were taken out. and then, the largest iraqi city currently held under control of isis. now, according to u.s. officials, this is a serious but probably only temporary setback to the isis ability, command and control leadership vacancies, vacuums. but they cautious that those positions will probably be filled in very short order. because there's plenty of isis wannabes, potential isis leaders willing to step in and take their place. nevertheless, score one for the good guys. according to people here in the building. and it's really the first indication that the u.s. has had the ability to track and then take out some of the very important isis leadership, joy. >> big news.

thanks very much, thank you. all right. a range of options. that's what the white house press secretary josh earnest said the national security council is now considering for north korea. over the sony hacking. speaking in today's press briefing, ernest went on to say the hack is being treated as a serious national security matter. sony has canceled the planned christmas day release of "the interview." the james franco comedy that appears to have provoked what some experts are calling the costliest cyber attack ever. the hit to sony's bottom line is still to come. but the national -- but the reputational hit is already being felt. this afternoon, studio head amy pascal met with msnbc show host al sharpton to discuss the racially charged e-mails that were released as part of the attacks. >> we have agreed to having a working group deal with the

racial bias and lack of diversity in hollywood and in the film industry that she and sony will work with the national action network, national urban league, national association of the advancement of colored people, and the black woman's round table to see if we can come up with an immediate plan to deal with. >> and joining me now with the latest is cnbc media and entertainment reporter julia boorstin. help us quantify the financial and reputational hit that sony's taking here. >> well, financially, there are two different ways sony is going to have to manage these costs. first, the cost of the movie, which is not being released. that movie, "the interview" cost about $22 million to produce and another estimated to market around the world. they might be able to cancel some of the last-minute tv ads planned between now and

christmas day, but they'll probably have to ship those costs over to marketing "annie," which is the other big holiday release. looking at a loss of about $90 million on the movie itself. then there are the other costs associated with hacking, which has been estimated to be in the ballpark of $100 million. right now, there are two class action lawsuits. there's the cost of rebuilding sony's network. there's all the productivity loss of the past several weeks, whenever sony has had to make due for several weeks, at least, not as much access to e-mail or voice mail and the cost of protecting their employee and former employee's personal data and helping them deal with everything like having their social security numbers published online. >> all right. cnbc's julia boorstin in los angeles. thanks very much. and now to the continuing reaction to president obama's decision to restore ties with cuba after more than 50 years. and on that, we have two reports. the first, from cnbc's chief

international correspondent who is live in havana. all right. michelle, let's talk a little bit about how this is going to work on the ground, at least, as we know it for now. >> yeah. it's not clear at this point. i mean, we know what changes the united states is going to make. there's going to be more remittences from family members. we think that means that a lot of the small number of entrepreneurs. they don't use entrepreneurs here. they don't want to admit there have been changes that led to a marked economy. people allowed to run and own their own businesses, we think they're going to end up with a lot more money because family members back in the united states will be able to send them more money over time. that's going to be something that's going to make a big difference. telecom equipment is just really needed here because this is the least wired country in the western hemisphere. they have lower broadband

penetration. keep in mind, the obama administration did make changes back in 2009 which would've allowed telecom companies to do deals here, but none have been done yet. and that's because the cuban government itself, the way it sets up foreign direct investment. the way it allows or disallows it. they don't really embrace contracts that make international investors regardless of the country actually want to come here and do a lot of business. there's some foreign direct investment in this country, but most likely from like-minded socialist countries, as well. even after this announcement in policy change. back to you, joy. >> and very quickly, though, if i could ask you, michelle. who are the american industries and businesses that would like to get into cuba? are we talking about the hotel industry, agriculture. in theory, if there is more openness, what american companies are looking to get into that economy? >> all of them, i think.

the way i've heard it described by some american companies is they think of it almost like a 51st state. it's so close. it's an hour flight, 90 miles away. there's 12 million people here. it's a society with a decent middle class. you could sell a whole lot of coca-cola here, right? so it's a no-brainer to be able to sell so close to a new market of 12 million people. the issue is, it's one thing to be able to shift stuff here and sell it. it's another thing to pour money into it and say i'm going to build something, i'm going to do something here and not know whether or not you're protected by corporate, by law, law system, rule of law, a judicial system, et cetera. that's been one of the big hold-ups. even from countries, from companies not in the united states. >> yeah. all right. cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera, thank you very much. and now, let's get to the reaction among cuban-americans. nowhere are passions running stronger than in miami. with protests in favor and opposed to the new policy facing off in the streets of the city's

little havana neighborhood. and with opinions split along generational lines. and for that, we go to claudine karo. yesterday, we heard a lot of sort of loud back and forth behind you there. what are you hearing today? >> well, i can tell you, joy, that definitely today there has been small confrontation, not as heavy, not as strong as we saw yesterday and last night. but one thing is for sure, for the cuban community, it has been very difficult to process all this -- all this information, all this news, the possibility of cuba and the united states to have diplomatic and economic relations is definitely information that has not come easy for the cuban community here in south florida. i can tell you, joy, that already this saturday at 1:00 p.m., there's going to be a march at the bay of pigs

memorial in florida that's been organized by cuban exiles who oppose these policy changes. now, throughout the day, on and off, there have been -- there have been heated discussions by members of the cuban community. there's a generation gap, all the cubans who believe that, no, this doesn't mean real change. this is another strategy by the castro government and on the other hand, you can speak to young cubans who say, you know what, how long has it been? maybe it's time for a change. maybe this is it. why not give it a try. >> all right. nbc's claudine carol. thank you very much. and we're following breaking news connected to the release of american hostage alan gross. nbc news can now confirm the identity of the u.s. spy who was also returned to the u.s. yesterday. and for more on that, joined by bob -- robert windrem.

what do we know? >> a man was released yesterday. described by the president during his speech as one of the most important intelligence assets the u.s. has ever had in cuba. he has been brought to this country. we are now told by a former u.s. intelligence officer familiar with the case that his name is rolando. he was arrested and imprisoned in cuba in 1995, given a 25-year sentence. he was, we are told, a specialist in agent communications. that is the communications between cuba's agents and the united states and back to the ministry of interior, which is essentially their intelligence agency. this man we are also told is someone who the cubans might even have executed if it had not been for the fact that his family has a long history of espionage on behalf of cuba. so this man is now back in the

u.s. and has been freed from cuban prison. whether we will see him is uncertain. and both the cia and the national director of intelligence are both refusing to confirm this. but, again, a former intelligence officer very familiar with this case, and cuban intelligence tells us this is the man released. >> all right. thank you very much. appreciate it. and coming up, we'll have more on both of our breaking news stories on the u.s. spy identified and isis leaders killed. plus, the exit interview in part one of my exclusive interview. outgoing attorney general eric holder opens up about racial tensions and law enforcement in an increasingly divided nation. plus, we'll talk more about what u.s. officials are calling the most damaging cyber attack ever inflicted on an american business. and who could be at risk next.

i'll just do it myself. useless. that's nice. set's the mood. have your entire house within reach, even when your devices aren't. introducing relay by wink it's like a robot butler, but not as awkward. alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. look, i love the way he controls abthe lightsbutler. and unlocks the door when i forget my keys... it's just that... i feel like he's always watching us. yes, that is why we should use wink. ...look, it can monitor and manage our house but it won't start to develop human emotions. hey buddy. control your entire home with one simple app

introducing wink it's like a robot butler, but not as awkward. wow! [ narrator ] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪

we're continuing to follow breaking developments in the fight against isis. senior defense officials confirmed u.s. led air strikes have killed three mid to high-level isis leaders in iraq. for more, we're joined by foreign correspondent. how important is this or as bob windrem said earlier, are we looking at leaders who will quickly be replaced? >> well, two perspectives. the short-term and the

long-term. the short-term, certainly is going to support this is extremely important. it is going to disrupt the ability to disadvantage the battlefield. they've demonstrated a certain degree of resilience. so taking out three of the most senior leaders and, perhaps, as mentioned in the press release from the pentagon the deputy to the leader will be a important setback. they have an ability to replenish the ranks relatively quickly. they'll change the methods, new ways of communicating. no doubt about it. in the short-term, this will be seen as a strategic setback for isis. >> and i want to zero in on a couple of the, two of the three people that were reportedly killed that we've confirmed were killed. the top military commander for isis, one of the features of this terrorist organization as against any other, is this military prowess, which is a

combination of terrifying tactics before they come in and actually being competent in militarily. how important is it that the top military commander, isis isn't known to have more strategic thinkers beyond this person? >> well, what we've seen in the past with isis is it tends to operate on two levels. one is a kind of macro level, which is certainly an important role that was held by, and that's going to emerge in the coming days following this strike, which is as an organization, the acquisition of, for example, military hardware and weapons that isis took over from the iraqi army and elsewhere, those tend to go into the big picture elements of isis. to be able to disperse those equipments and those weapons on a large scale. and that's probably the role he played. how to use those weapons, what to attack, what strategic areas to go after. but there's also another element of isis, which is the kind of low level fear factor that isis thrives off of. and in areas where they control, it's sometimes very low-level commanders, low level individuals, who create the most

sense of fear by kind of doing the thing that isis has been known to do. beheadings, the kind of public lashes that we've seen. the real terror that kind of helps isis maintain its territorial control. so, for example a big picture, taking out a leader like this is certainly going to be important. and as i was saying is going to disrupt their ability to fight on big parts of the land both in syria and iraq. but, still, isis' ability on the low level to maintain that control and structure, i think is going to prove hard to defeat with military strikes alone. >> well, let's go into the next person on the list. the amir of mosul. and has been embedding itself within some of these tribes in iraq and the allegiances from tribal leaders. how significant is it that somebody who is at the, you know, top leadership end of mosul, very significant city. how significant is that? >> that's very symbolically important. and you put it in perspective of

what happened this summer. from a perspective of this past summer when isis really emerged on the world scene, it was after they managed to overrun the second largest city in iraq, which is the city of mosul. and that's when we started hearing his name. that's when he became this very prominent figure. now, keep in mind before this summer, isis was really concentrating on fighting inside syria, but then they kind of shock and awed their way into iraq by overrunning mosul. symbolically has a tremendous impact on the morale of the group, on the morale of the leadership. and there's also a kind of difficult point here. and that is many of these leaders seek what they call martyrdom. to die fighting an enemy like the united states. so in some sense, what tends to happen is after the elimination of this type of leadership, we see this being used as a rallying cry to recruit more followers, to recruit more leadership in the organization and to raise these people to

give them a sense of, if you will, heroic status on the battlefield. so there is going to be, perhaps a negative backlash in the long run that this is used to recruit more followers. >> and lastly, would i be correct in saying that since taking mosu, which was a very dramatic turn for isis, that the group has had more difficulty acquiring more territory? we haven't heard recently of them being able to take another major city. are they now not advancing territorially the way they were a few p months ago? >> you would be correct in making that assumption. and from the perspective of they have not taken another city on the scale of mosul. particularly with they managed to do so in a matter of days earlier this summer. they have been able to take over smaller towns. kobani in syria along the turkish border. they've taken over some small they've taken over some small towns

here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in, and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose some weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration, which may cause some people to have loss of body water and salt. this may also cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections, urinary tract infections, changes in urination, high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis or if allergic to invokana® or its ingredients. symptoms of allergic reaction may include rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. if you experience any of these symptoms, stop taking invokana® and call your doctor right away or go to

the nearest hospital. tell your doctor about any medical conditions, medications you are taking, and if you have kidney or liver problems. using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. ask your doctor about invokana®.

that is annual marathon news conference today, vladimir putin vowed to fix the country's economic troubles in less than two years defiantly calling western sanctions, quote, payment for our independence. ♪

[ female announcer ] you've tried to forget your hepatitis c. but you shouldn't forget this. hepatitis c is a serious disease. left untreated, it can lead to liver damage and potentially liver cancer. but you haven't been forgotten. there's never been a better time to rethink your hep c. go to hepchope.com to register for more information. then talk to your doctor about scientific advances that may help you move on from hepatitis c.

then talk to your doctor about scientific advances that getsson's got filthy.ankie but he's got such sensitive skin that you worry about what you use in the laundry my tide pods, downy and bounce all come in free & gentle so we get a cleaner, softer blankie. gasp hypoallergenic tide, downy and bounce free we are back now, and continuing to follow our breaking news out of iraq. nbc news has learned three mid to high-level isis leaders in iraq have been killed over the past six weeks. nbc news terrorism analyst evan colemann joins me on the phone. what is the significance of these three people who were

killed, apparently, by u.s. air strikes? >> well, i think we have to temper this a little bit. several of these individuals, when we say six weeks, there was a report in late july that one of these individuals was actually killed. so the other one, the amir of mosul, or isis commander, he was (s÷ @&h(lc% sources. so some of these individuals seem to be fairly high ranking. certainly, if he's the commander of mosul for isis, that's a senior commander. but this is not that recent. this is -- it's kind of odd they're making this announcement right our. because, you know, some of these guys have been dead for a while now. and, you know, just to be -- put this in context, in conversations i've had with folks in u.s. intelligence, the reaction that i've gotten has been u.s. air strikes really are not that effective in the sense that they have stopped isis' campaign temporarily. but they're not achieving that many big hits in terms of senior isis leadership or in terms of

unraveling isis' campaign in a more broader sense. so, again, you know, it's always good to see senior figures in this network taken out. but we have to temper this. this is not exactly new news. and, you know, the fact is, these people have been dead now for -- as long as a month or more. and you don't see isis unraveling in any great way. >> and you know what, just explore that a little bit, evan. what might be the sort of public relations reason. or the public communications reason for, as you said, grouping these three together, making this announcement now, given that there haven't been that many developments in terms of isis fighting on the ground? >> well, look, i think a lot of p5n we've been launching air strikes now in syria and iraq now for months. and, you know, it's a fair question. at what point are we going to see material progress? and, i think, look, i understand that the administration is trying to bolster its policy,

and i understand the pentagon is trying to point out that these air strikes are achieving something. but, you know, killing three guys, none of whom is the leader of isis, none of whom is a face in their video. i mean, these people may be significant figures, but they're not key leaders in the sense of that isis is not going to stop operating without them. and, i think we have to be realistic. stopping isis is not going to be about killing one or two people. i mean, if you think back to iraq in the heyday, first we killed zarkawi, that didn't stop the group. and we killed the predecessor. that didn't stop the group. in fact, it got stronger. so i think trying to, you know, trying to understand how we're doing against isis in terms of how many people we've killed may not be the greatest, you know, measurement or way of measuring that. progress is not measured simply by getting rid of mid-level commanders. and i think, you know, even if

you assume that these guys were significant, they're not ths1ñ top, top, top tier. they're still at least, you know, mid-level commanders. >> very important context. thank you very much, evan colemann. appreciate it. >> thank you. all right. on the heels of continuing protests over grand jury decisions in the michael brown and eric garner cases, president obama and the first lady are speaking out about their own experiences with racism. in an interview with "people" magazine, the president said that he's been mistaken for a waiter and a valet. president obama told the magazine, quote, there's no black male my age who is a professional who hasn't come out of the restaurant and waiting for their car and someone didn't hand them her car keys. she says even as first lady, she's been mistaken for a target worker while shopping at the store. polls show more than half of americans say race relations in this country are either fairly bad or very bad. recently, i sat down with

outgoing attorney general eric holder for an exclusive one-on-one interview at the motel in memphis, tennessee. where we talked a lot about the distrust between communities of color and the police. >> we are in memphis, tennessee, we're actually sitting in a replica of the bus that became very famous as the launching point of the montgomery busboy cot. and it's interesting that you've come down here, you've come to memphis to talk about issues of policing and issues of fairness and the perception that african-americans have that they're not treated fairly by the criminal justice system. and i'll start by asking you, do you believe that it is, do you believe that african-american and latino, young people should fear the police? >> i don't think they should fear the police. but i certainly think we have to build up a better relationship between young people, people of color, and people in law enforcement. there is -- there's distrust

that exists on both sides. there's misunderstanding that exists on both sides. and we have to come up with ways in which we bridge those gaps so that people don't demonize other people so that people understand on both sides they're people trying to do the best that they can. we're not at a stage where i can honestly say, you know, truthfully say that if you're a person of color, you should not be concerned about any interaction that you have with the police in the same way i can't say to a police officer, shouldn't worry about what community you are being asked to operate in. and so there is work that our nation has to do. it's what the president has asked me to do in going around the nation and having these interactions. and it's what we are as an administration committed to doing. to building trust that does not now exist but that has to exist. has to exist. >> well, i'm struggling listening to you by the words of a deputy attorney general going back to about the year 2000,

2001, in a similar case in new york, a young west african immigrant. and at that time, that deputy attorney general eric holder issued memorandum explaining why there was not going to be a federal prosecution of the officers acquitted in that killing. and at that time, you said there was a sense of mistrust between black communities and police that needed to be bridged, trust needed to be built up. what does it say that we essentially are in the same exact place now so many years later? >> it means that we as a nation have failed. it's as simple as that. we have failed. we have understood that these issues have existed long before even that 2001 memorandum by that then young deputy attorney general. these are issues we've been dealing with for generations. and it's why we have to seize this opportunity that we now have. we have a moment in time. that we can, perhaps, come up with some meaningful change.

it's what i'm committed to doing, even in the limited time i have left as attorney general and i'll certainly continue to do it after i leave office. it's what this administration is vmb(but i also feel that the na, the nation, i think, is really ready for this kind of change. and i would hope that ten years from now, 12 years from now, we'll not look back on this as a lost opportunity. i think in particular what happened in new york with the whole garner matter. which i can't get into because it's something that we are still in the process of investigating. that, i think, has galvanized the nation. and i think that we have to take advantage of this, the feeling that exists now in our country. and make it better. >> well, is the issue training? you hear a lot of talk about police departments needing new training. or is the issue that police officers, individual officers know that they are so protected by the system that an officer who abuses their discretion, abuses their power, that they're confident there won't be

repercussions. isn't the problem a lack of punishment of those who do wrong rather than needing just new training? >> well, i think certainly training is an important part of it. building up that trust, i think is certainly a part of it. but i think we also have to look at the way in which people are judged. police officers are judged. and that there is, in fact, a problem there. that is something we need to address. but, again, i think something we need to look at honestly. what are the statistics? the numbers of people involved in these kinds of shootings. are there deficiencies that we are seeing? are there patterns that are repeating themselves? and one of the things is doing a better job of collecting statistics. we don't have the basis now to look at this country as a whole and understand how big the problem is. it's one of the things our bureau of justice statistics is trying to come up with a way in which we start to gather this information. and that'll give us a much better way to get a handle on this problem. >> well, it's another issue.

a lot of people talk about biases. police officers not from the communities that they're policing. kind of the racial, the ethnic biases that also play into policing. you came into office very early on in your tenure and you made a very strong statement. and you said that we're a nation of cowards and dealing with the issues of race. do you still believe that now? because we don't seem to have gotten very far even in terms of dealing with those underlying racial issues. >> well, i think as a nation, we are too reluctant to talk about racial things. it's painful, it's difficult, given the history of this nation. and it's been -- the easier thing to do is try to figure out a way in which you kind of deal with the issue that's before you and not deal with the underlying concerns that make a particular incident blow up into something that is of nationwide concern. so, yeah, we've not done all that we can. i'm hopeful that with regard to this incident at this time with

this president that we can make progress in ways that we have not in the past. >> well, do you feel that any opportunities have been missed? you were a surrogate for then candidate barack obama when he was running and there was a lot of hope that, perhaps, his presence if he became president that he would be able to galvanize that very conversation, make people more comfortable. do you feel there's been a missed opportunity in these six years to really start to address some of these racial issues on the part of the president, on the part of the administration? >> no, i don't think so. if you look at the work of the justice department over the last six years, we've done a whole variety of things. whether it's in bringing cases against police departments that have acted in unconstitutional ways. we have reached out and tried to come up with ways in which we involve young people and deal with the issues that young people are confronting. i think, you know, i've been really out there in talking about things racial and gotten a lot of criticism for it. but that's fine. i think raising these issues and coming up with substantive

programs as we have in the department of justice and other parts of the administration. i think we're in a better place than we were before. maybe not as far as people expected with the election of the first african-american president or the selection of the first african-american attorn[ñ general.)i but even though we've made progress and i'm proud of the progress we made, there's still much more that we have to do. >> and we'll have more of my exclusive interview with eric holder tomorrow. where we'll hear the attorney general talk about his relationship with congress and his proudest accomplishment. we'll be right back. the holiday season is here,

which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays

in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models. and i quit smoking with chantix. i had tried to do it in the past. i hadn't been successful. quitting smoking this time was different because i got a prescription for chantix. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. the fact that it reduced the urge to smoke helped me get that confidence that i could do it. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some people had seizures while taking chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix or history of seizures. don' take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop chantix and

see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. i love myself as a non-smoker. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. today, the u.s. is vowing a response to the sony hacking attack that officials say was perpetuated by north korea. the white house says it's weighing a range of options for potential responses. in an exclusive interview with andrea mitchell today, jay johnson would not say if the hack was specifically an act of terrorism. but he did address the threat to theaters that caused sony to

cancel the release of the interview. >> we have no specific credible intelligence of any attempt or plan at a 9/11 style attack on movie theaters in this country. this holiday season people should continue to enjoy their ability to associate, to travel, to go to public places. >> it now appears the film will not be released on dvd or streaming either. john mccain issued a statement today rebuking sony's decision. saying by effectively yielding to aggressive acts of cyber terrorism by north korea, that decision sets a troubling precedent that will only empower and embolden bad actors. the likely new chairman of the senate armed services committee also said he will form a new subcommittee focused on cyber attacks. a cyber security expert and runs a global investigations firm and

nina is an associate professor of international affairs at the new school. thank you both for being here. and i want to start by asking you, tony, as a technical matter. would this attack be considered cyber terrorism? >> oh, without question. when the private enterprise, a major corporation, international corporation like sony actually has its decisions changed and its actions changed based on a hacking attack. and it really sets a dangerous precedent. not only in the united states, but internationally. >> well, and the reason i asked that question, nina, is because what the attack does lack is the credible threat that anything violent would then come of it beyond the embarrassment, obviously, to sony and the loss of money to sony. and jay johnson specifically was asked by andrea mitchell if it was terrorism. and he was really reluctant to call it terrorism.

let's listen to jay johnson on andrea mitchell reports. >> i hesitate to put labels on what we believe occurred here except to say it's a very serious attack, not only on individuals and a company, but on basic freedoms with enjoy in this country. >> does it mean anything that the white house is being very careful and reluctant to sort of go there on whether or not this is terrorism? >> well, language is very important in politics. and if you call it terrorism, then you have to have certain actions that take certain actions that terrorism actions by other states require. so, of course, they're very careful. but i also think the reason it's such a big story on one hand it's terrorism, on the other hand, it's a popular culture story. because it is a popular culture film, it's a hollywood film, it's an interview, looks very funny and quite ridiculous, and so in some ways, it's a different story than say north

korea. even when they do, we're not taking it so seriously. so on one hand, it's a very light story, on the other hand, it's much more serious. and i think it's very important to see how both the united states will follow with a response, but also what north korea does next. i'm sure what i've been looking at various international media, and they're celebrating, finally, they took america down. yay, that's wonderful. and i think that's something that the united states should pay attention to because that's once again when the u.s. reputation is a slightly -- >> you know what, what's interesting, 1.0 version of north korea aggression was kim jong-il and these sort of missile launches that would go nowhere and threat to try to get food assistance, et cetera. kim jong-un his son appears to be a cyber attack over a movie? it does seem to be a minor slight for a broad and really costly response. >> well, i don't believe it's a

minor slight based on the north korean perspective. he's considered a deity by the population there. and so, i think he had to protect his reputation. but this kind of attack is just going to further isolate the most isolated country in the world. and there is still action that the united states can take in terms of having banks freeze north korean assets. but, you know, that might not be the best action. with regard to sony's actions, i think, you know, the board although it fulfilled the responsibility to the stockholders in protecting the brand and the profitability of the country, i think they were shortsighted and they failed to see the long-term implications of this. i think they could have really polished their brand, gained popular support in the united states and overseas, in other democracies. if they would have released the

film. and if they couldn't in the theaters, then to release it for free on the internet. >> that's the other thing i think people are looking at here. the total retreat by sony. it's quite another thing to be able to actually mount physical attacks than it is to do a hack attack. did sony make the right decision? >> i don't think so. i rarely agree with john mccain, but i do agree in that particular matter. it should have been. it should have flooded the market for free, everybody should've seen it. everybody -- because, it is, hollywood is great. they produce funny, good movies, and that's probably a very good movie. so we should see that kind of irony and parody of north korea. and, in fact, it could have been done america much good to show it this way rather than retreating and basically we have to -- reacted exactly the same way that north korea wants. that only gives this country's ammunition. >> and it does seem the embarrass in the content of the e-mails had to play a role in the decision that was made. >> well, i think -- i think they

perceived it exactly like a corporate board would perceive it. this is damaging the brand, it's killing our profitability. our long-term prospects of success are now diminished. oe it wq# short-term thank you both for being here. [ breathing deeply ]

[ inhales deeply ] [ sighs ] [ inhales ] [ male announcer ] at cvs health, we took a deep breath... [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] and made the decision to quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. now we invite smokers to quit, too, with our comprehensive program. we just want to help everyone, everywhere, breathe a little easier. introducing cvs health. because health is everything.

we're following breaking developments now from the white house where we've learned that an independent report on b recent failures by the secret service is expected to be released shortly. and for more on that, we're joined by nbc's chris jansing live at the white house. chris? >> reporter: yeah, this is a report, of course, that was commissioned in october after the latest in a series.

ran across the north lawn, behind me. went into the unlocked front door and basically past a set of stairs that leads to the private quarters of the first family. got through much of the length of the corridor before was tackled by a secret service, not even somebody assigned there. so incalculable how much more area he could've covered had that person not coincidentally ben there. a panel of investigators have done this report. it's not clear right now how much detail we'll learn. jay johnson said earlier today here on msnbc that a lot of it is classified. has law enforcement information. so some of this has been delayed, the release of this report as they figure out what exactly they want to release to the public. just a short time ago, josh ernest was asked whether the president has seen the report. he said he had not. although, he repeated what we heard many times from him, that

the president and the first family, have complete confidence in the secret service. nevertheless, there was a lot of concern here at the white house when this breach happened. and we expect to get more details today about that and some reaction potentially from the president who it was announced today will hold his annual end of year news conference tomorrow afternoon. joy? >> and chris, very quickly to follow up. you said the white house is continuing to express complete confidence in the secret service. are you hearing any rumblings there at the white house there may be further shake-ups at the agency as a result of the report? >> well, as you know, there's an acting director. and one of the things i asked today, and they're obviously very happy with the way things have been going because there already have been some changes in advance of this report. there is no time line, nor any personnel announcements is the way they always put it from the podium to announce. clearly they're going to have to look for a new secret service director. although, there were some indications earlier this week this report will not make specific relations about who might be that permanent

director, joy. >> all right. nbc's chris jansing at the white house. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. and that wraps things up for the "reid report." i'll see you tomorrow. and be sure to visit us online. "the cycle's" up next. it's time for "your business" entrepreneur of the week. christmas may come just once a year, but at roger's company, it happens nearly every day. his new oxford, pennsylvania, store the christmas house is closed only four days a year. why? because he says it's because of customer demand. for more, watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. new business owner, it woe new business owner, it woe one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small.

american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. yyou would need like a bunch of those to clean this mess. then i'll use a bunch of them. what are you doing? dish issues? ... ... get cascade complete. one pac cleans better than six pacs of the bargain brand combined. cascade. now that's clean. having a perfectly nice day, when out of nowhere a pick-up truck slams into your brand new car. one second it wasn't there and the next second... boom! you've had your first accident. now you have to make your first claim. so you talk to your insurance company and... boom! you're blindsided for a second time. they won't give you enough money to replace your brand new car. don't those people know you're already shaken up? liberty mutual's new car replacement will pay for the entire value of your car plus depreciation. call and for drivers with accident forgiveness,

liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. switch to liberty mutual insurance and you could save up to $423 dollars. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. mmmmmmm. look out. now there's even more of the amazing cinnamon taste you love on cinnamon toast crunch.

crave those crazy squares even more. you two are going to be in a room alone with kim, and the cia would love it if you could take him out. >> hmm? >> take him out. >> for coffee? >> dinner? >> no, take him out. >> you want us to kill the leader of north korea? >> yes. >> what? well, we'll never know what happens next because sony has pulled "the interview" after a top u.s. official confirmed north korea is behind the hack. and threats against sony and movie theaters across the nation. as we come on the air today, we are seeing something unprecedented playing out. "the interview" was supposed to be a comedy about a plot to kill

the north korean leader who was also supposed to debut on christmas day. but after the sony hack and threats invoking 9/11 on any theater that shows the film, sony has opted to not release the film in theaters or on demand. there's no word yet on exactly how the u.s. is sure the north koreans are behind this. either way, though, the homeland security chief insisted on "andrea mitchell reports," there's no credible intel indicating an active plot. that does not mean he's not on alert. >> the u.s. government is actively considering a range of options that will take in response to this attack. it's a very serious attack. not only on individuals and a company, but on basic freedoms. to travel to go to public places. we have no specific credible intelligence of a 9/11-style attack, attempted attack or a plan on movie theaters in this country. >> critics say bowing to pressure from hackers could open the flood gates to